How to learn to fly coordinated
Posted by kkcfi@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 17 comments
I just responded to a post on this sub about this. Figured I'd share my response here and see what other ideas / drills can be used to teach (new) students how to fly coordinated.
As a background the question was about the discrepancy between the ball and the brick (glass) in a 172 from some one who seemed like a relatively new student trying to figure out which one to look at / depend on.
Here are my notes on this:
----
Lets talk about this. First, your eyes should be outside. Looking at the brick or the ball is not how we fly the airplane. We fly it by feel and by looking OUTSIDE. Second, the digital brick is usually a tad delayed - think lagging. Definitely in the G1000 and most other glass. The ball is accurate but it is inside the airplane.
Moving on, how do you develop a feel for what is happening. Sight and by the seat of your pants. Let's talk about a few drills you can try with your flight instructor to do this. Always clear the airspace for traffic and do this at a safe altitude.
Drill #1:
Modified Dutch rolls / yaw drill.
Objective: Keep your nose on an outside reference while banking the wings 30 degrees either side.
Setup: Get to a safe altitude, steady cruise speed and trim the controls so the airplane flies hands off. Bug your heading.
Step 1: Bank your airplane left and right approx 30 degrees smoothly but quickly WITHOUT using the rudder and then return to wings level. This will cause adverse yaw on both sides and once wings are level you will see the nose dancing.
Step 2: Repeat the above but this time with Rudder corresponding to the banking. If you do this correctly the nose will stay on your reference point and there will be no adverse yaw.
Points to note: Have your instructor demonstrate this drill before you try it. You will need some light back pressure to maintain altitude. Also, if your banking results in a change in heading, you are not banking quickly enough.
Drill #2:
Understanding Yawing using Left Turning Tendencies, especially P-factor.
Objective: Learn to recognize yaw and develop a feel for it.
Setup: At a safe altitude, get into slow flight a few knots above the stall horn. Trim the controls so the airplane can fly hands off at this speed and set power to maintain altitude. Level wings.
Step 1: Once established in slow flight, hand over controls to your instructor and request that he / she release the rudder and slowly raise the nose. You should be looking outside and identify when the nose starts Yawing left. When you see the movement, your instructor should apply right rudder to coordinate controls. The nose will stop moving. Do this a few times until you can feel this movement in the seat of your pants.
Step 2: Once you are confident that you can feel the yaw, Repeat Step 1, but this time you will close your eyes and tell your instructor when you "feel" the yaw start and stop.
Step 3: You try and replicate Step 1. Obviously if you are flying the airplane, keep your eyes open 😉
Do these for a few flights and you'll be amazed how quickly you can just "tell" if you are not coordinated.
scottyh214@reddit
Drill 3: stick them in a tailwheel airplane with exaggerated adverse yaw and an oversized rudder and watch them figure it out. A Decathlon works perfectly for this.
aftcg@reddit
Stearman will really make the user attentive to rudder applications
scottyh214@reddit
The Stearman humbled the hell out of me. I was a 100ish hour tailwheel pilot the first time I flew one (mostly Decathlon but some Cub and Pitts time in there too) and boy did I learn what my feet are for quickly in the Stearman. Love those birds.
aftcg@reddit
I have 3 flights in a Steaman after about 100 in a Beech 18 and was humbled quick too!
scottyh214@reddit
I would LOVE to get my hands on a Beech 18. Such cool airplanes.
aftcg@reddit
It was awesome and scary. I flew as a cargo dog. Never got good at flying it below 5 feet.
kkcfi@reddit (OP)
Absolutely, ditto for the glider. However if the student is just learning how to fly, these drills help me teach coordination better in the airplane they are learning how to fly in.
scottyh214@reddit
I have taken a few students up in a Decathlon because it exaggerates everything they do. A 172 and Warrior or similar trainers are subject to the same adverse yaw and turning tendencies but they both forgive slop. The Decathlon kicks your ass for being sloppy. I do basically the same drills you’re talking about just in the harder plane. When they get back into their normal trainer, they tend to remember the lessons pretty well. Not saying it’s perfect or better than what you do, just what I have found works well for me.
ybitz@reddit
I don’t know if I’m just broken, but I generally can’t really feel if the plane is uncoordinated unless it’s grossly so. If you explicitly step on the rudder to make it uncoordinated, yeah, i feel that. But the slight uncoordination from adverse yaw…nope. But I check the ball as part of the regular scan and apply rudder as necessary, and it seems good enough? (Am I alone?)
kkcfi@reddit (OP)
You're not alone and that is part of a larger challenge. Airplanes behave very differently at different gains of flying (reference to the book - Stick and Rudder). The short version is that when the airplane is in "mushing flight" like when we are in slow flight, the impact of P-factor is much higher. The lack of coordination can be seen visually and when you see it, it is easier to understand what that feels like on the seat.
A lot of times during instruction Slow Flight is taught mechanically as an end unto itself - i.e., can the student accomplish slow flight per the ACS. The concepts are not explored enough. Slow flight helps touch upon, see n feel so much of fundamental aerodynamics.
Try this out with an instructor and you'll start picking up a feel for it pretty quickly.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
A part two to drill #1: take these skills and have your student follow a coastline, river, or windy road while staying coordinated. The nature of variable turns and twists will help them learn to use the appropriate amount of rudder for different turns, as a quick bank requires more rudder the man a slow bank.Â
kkcfi@reddit (OP)
I made that one up (#2) to help students "see" and develop a feel for when they are not coordinated. Started with trying to show them what P-factor does. It had the unplanned benefits of (a) helping a new student use right rudder appropriately after rotation and when take off flaps are retracted and (b) developing a feel for the seat of their pants (step 2 of the drill)
Prestigious-Elk-9061@reddit
These are great tips that don’t seem to make it into training, because they’re not in the ACS. I made it through PPL and IRA without having done these. I’ve been meaning to do this since I saw Drill #1 in the Finer Points ground school, but I’ve never seen or heard of #2. So I’m going to try these on the next flight out to the practice area. Thanks for the post!
kkcfi@reddit (OP)
Take an instructor with you the first time you do it
d4rkha1f@reddit
I also will sometimes tape a piece of string one the windscreen so they can see when they're off.
I do #1 with my students. I'm going to give #2 a try.
MNSoaring@reddit
Fly any glider plane and you will immediately understand adverse yaw
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I just responded to a post on this sub about this. Figured I'd share my response here and see what other ideas / drills can be used to teach (new) students how to fly coordinated.
As a background the question was about the discrepancy between the ball and the brick (glass) in a 172 from some one who seemed like a relatively new student trying to figure out which one to look at / depend on.
Here are my notes on this:
----
Lets talk about this. First, your eyes should be outside. Looking at the brick or the ball is not how we fly the airplane. We fly it by feel and by looking OUTSIDE. Second, the digital brick is usually a tad delayed - think lagging. Definitely in the G1000 and most other glass. The ball is accurate but it is inside the airplane.
Moving on, how do you develop a feel for what is happening. Sight and by the seat of your pants. Let's talk about a few drills you can try with your flight instructor to do this. Always clear the airspace for traffic and do this at a safe altitude.
Drill #1:
Modified Dutch rolls / yaw drill.
Objective: Keep your nose on an outside reference while banking the wings 30 degrees either side.
Setup: Get to a safe altitude, steady cruise speed and trim the controls so the airplane flies hands off. Bug your heading.
Step 1: Bank your airplane left and right approx 30 degrees smoothly but quickly WITHOUT using the rudder and then return to wings level. This will cause adverse yaw on both sides and once wings are level you will see the nose dancing.
Step 2: Repeat the above but this time with Rudder corresponding to the banking. If you do this correctly the nose will stay on your reference point and there will be no adverse yaw.
Points to note: Have your instructor demonstrate this drill before you try it. You will need some light back pressure to maintain altitude. Also, if your banking results in a change in heading, you are not banking quickly enough.
Drill #2:
Understanding Yawing using Left Turning Tendencies, especially P-factor.
Objective: Learn to recognize yaw and develop a feel for it.
Setup: At a safe altitude, get into slow flight a few knots above the stall horn. Trim the controls so the airplane can fly hands off at this speed and set power to maintain altitude. Level wings.
Step 1: Once established in slow flight, hand over controls to your instructor and request that he / she release the rudder and slowly raise the nose. You should be looking outside and identify when the nose starts Yawing left. When you see the movement, your instructor should apply right rudder to coordinate controls. The nose will stop moving. Do this a few times until you can feel this movement in the seat of your pants.
Step 2: Once you are confident that you can feel the yaw, Repeat Step 1, but this time you will close your eyes and tell your instructor when you "feel" the yaw start and stop.
Step 3: You try and replicate Step 1. Obviously if you are flying the airplane, keep your eyes open 😉
Do these for a few flights and you'll be amazed how quickly you can just "tell" if you are not coordinated.
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