Manufacturing a Dinghy
Posted by CanIGetAFitness@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 27 comments
If someone was retiring and was going to start cranking out inexpensive fiberglass sailing dinghies for clubs, high schools and colleges that was targeted to places that have never had a sailing club or team, what design would you want?
RockHead-MA@reddit
You do know the old line about how to make a small fortune in boatbuilding, right?
-Start with a large fortune.*
*18 years in the industry, 15 on the boatbuilding side in marketing, sales, and customer support = vow of poverty. It's a lifestyle/mission-driven path. The boatbuilder is an overseas company that builds loads of institutional dinghies for these exact markets. Plus retail one-design racing dinghies, keelboats and sportboats.
Dinghies for competitive inter-scholastic racing aspirations vs rec sailing are completely different animals. Other than designing and building for durability & value being the most important goals, which are inherently in conflict. And this is a super, super-niche product for a super-niche market in either.
For race aspirations, the defaults are 420 and FJ, though they should have been replaced ages ago. History is littered with failed attempts at that, most recently the Zim 15. And in the US, trying to compete with Zim on any level would be a massive uphill battle. They've been in the space a LONG time, have evolved the durability/pricing mix pretty right, and have the ICSA collegiate market 100% locked down through sponsorship; ICSA has a rule that only Zim boats can be used to host the championships. Most high schools buy used collegiate boats & sails for pennies on the dollar. Some also lease access to collegiate boats/facilities. So even high school race teams are a tough market.
Recreational programs for colleges and high schools are few and far between. The only sizable ones I'm aware of are MIT and the University of Wisconsin. Both use Tech dinghys, evolved on parallel paths over decades, due to UW buying a used Tech fleet decades ago. MIT owns a set of molds and has a 4-5 year-old fleet that probably won't be replaced for 5-10 years. For rec sailing, you're also adding low-cost RS rotomolded boats to your competitive mix. This applies to community sailing programs, too.
WD Schock is still going on the West Coast with the Harbor 20 & Lido 14, and the occasional bigger boat. Whitecap Composites on the East Coast failed, trying to compete with Zim in this space with their Turbo420, Firefly, Lark, Tech (and FJ??). LP imploded spectacularly, for -reasons.
My professional advice is to run, don't walk, away from this idea. If you do insist on persisting, be prepared to copiously bleed cash at 6-figure rates for 3-5+ years. Direct your retirement time & enthusiasm into helping a local high school(s), by coaching and/or repairing boats. Or similar at a nearby community sailing center.
RumSwizzle508@reddit
A fiberglass cape cod frosty?
But in reality, optis (for the kids), lasers/ILCA, 420s, and FJs already market.
RockHead-MA@reddit
Someone buillds them in glass
Big-Yogurtcloset2731@reddit
Have a look at Mike Storer boat designs. The Oz Goose is specifically designed to be a cheap build, even in developing countries. The are videos on Tiktok and Youtube.
Westar-35@reddit
You can’t just start cracking out Sunfish dinghys, or any other existing dinghy, if you use any existing design you’d have to license it.
Another option would be to work with a naval architect to develop a new design and start producing that boat.
overthehillhat@reddit
The industry has copied well known designs using a hull as a plug since fiberglass first began
Westar-35@reddit
That doesn’t make it legal, and it definitely doesn’t make you any less sue-able
PermanentRoundFile@reddit
The burden of proof to prove that you infringed on their copywrite or IP is pretty high. Boat design is a science and has to follow certain trends, so it's a lot harder to say like "they copied my transom design" because all boats have transoms and there are only certain shapes they can really be.
If our president has taught us anything, it's that it's waaaay more profitable to do it and wait to see if they sue; it's usually too expensive or complex to litigate and you can kinda stall it in court until nobody cares anymore.
Westar-35@reddit
I don’t think we’re talking about the similarity of transoms when the comment I responded to was copying the entire hull…
drillbit7@reddit
I want to say the market's pretty saturated. If you're interested in racing you're going to want something that other sailors have so you can race against them rather than wait for a fleet to naturally develop.
If you're running a training program, you want something that has parts easily available.
The only thing I've seen that's been innovative recently is the Rocket and Sol: both attempts to get Sunfish-trained sailors into bigger boats.
One potential path is to adapt an existing design with modern construction techniques to make it lighter, but then the lighter design wouldn't be race legal.
Objective-Case-391@reddit
Look at the Oz Goose, a boxy homebuilt wood boat designed by an AUS boat designer in the Philippines. Making sailing affordable. He’s also designed wooden optis.
Sir-Realz@reddit
Obviously lasers, but I realy wish there were more of the RS ZEST type designs, they are small enouph to sail solo, they are comfortable for 2 (unlike a laser) the can fit 3 safely if you want to bring your friends along. I'm trying to upgrade from a Dolphin but I can find any boat like this in my area
Dnlx5@reddit
It would be really cool if someone created a fleet of Puddle Duck Racers. You could make 100 of them and create a local series.
Holden_Coalfield@reddit
I would run a laser rescue
Dnlx5@reddit
Thats a good idea!
LastHorseOnTheSand@reddit
Inexpensive and fibreglass don't really belong in the same sentence unless at massive scale. I think plywood be the way to go. See: Mirror, OzGoose, etc. but if money is no concern I'd say poly is more suitable for schools as it's low maintenance and practically indestructible
the-montser@reddit
High schools and colleges will want 420s or FJs as those are the boats that high school and college sailing uses.
Glenbard@reddit
This OP. 💯
J4pes@reddit
Make sailing hot tubs. Lounging and directed drifting
GebOshanti@reddit
A new Force 5
blithetorrent@reddit
You could try to license Goat Island Skiffs and crank them out in glass. Super simple hull, super simple (but great) rig, a balanced lug that could teach kids about at least one traditional rig. Also, a fast and fun boat but stable enough for learners. But I agree with all the others--nobody is crying out for this. You'll lose your shirt.
pattern_altitude@reddit
High school and college sailing are pretty much standardized on the FJ and 420. If a program wants to be competitive, that’s what they’re going to pick or stick with. Why would you train on something other than what you’re going to be competing on 99% of the time? One of the holdouts, Tufts, recently got rid of their Larks in favor of FJs, and the only other notable exception I can think of would be MIT’s Tech Dinghies, which aren’t even a primary boat — they just get sailed as an ancillary “C Division” at a few regattas.
Especially in the collegiate space, you’re going to have trouble competing against Zim. They’re big, they’re known, and they have an established reputation for making solid boats.
hopscotch_uitwaaien@reddit
I’d say a small sloop-rigged boat with room for three or four.
empireofjade@reddit
Youth: Optimist High School/College: Laser
Puzzleheaded-Pain214@reddit
Something similar to a Dyer Dhow. Do some research and talk to some old industry guys. Lots of people have lost money with the same idea. And today's economy is much worse than it was then....
Mobely@reddit
A nesting dinghy.
Mynplus1throwaway@reddit
I feel like sunfish, laser, etc is pretty go to. Small enough to transport and for a kid to handle.
Durability, ease of repair, and being cheap
Not sure what else you are really looking for