What is a rite of passage in America that existed 20 years ago but is rare today?
Posted by bricklegos@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 1135 comments
Just like what the title says
Miss_Gretchen_xxx@reddit
"Going all the way" after senior prom.
FluffyFry4000@reddit
This is something i truly hated, but back in high school, a lot of dudes used to put pressure on each other to lose our virginity before college
From what I understand it's not such a big deal anymore, but being thought of as a loser if you went to college as a virgin was a big thing back then.
Not sure if it was just my school or something, but I also remember a lot of teen comedies talking about that also at the time.
But yeah, i hated it, even though I did lose my virginity before college, it was just like eughhh and I think it also made dudes put more pressure on their girlfriends for sex.
infinite_awkward@reddit
It’s not rare but there are definitely fewer teens getting their driver’s license as soon as they turn 16.
Head_Razzmatazz7174@reddit
Depends on where they live. I'm in a rural town, with no public transit. Walking from your house to the grocery store is just far enough to make it annoying without a car.
chirop1@reddit
Rural Kentucky here. You'd be amazed at the number of kids I see who just aren't excited about getting their license.
I genuinely think part of it is that when I was 16, if I wanted to communicate with a friend at all... that required leaving the house. Now they are connected 24/7.
KaiTheG4mer@reddit
Speaking as a young adult who still has recent memory of being 16, there's a couple other things you're not considering:
Cars are expensive. Even old ones. No child wants a rusted out shitbox that reeks of cigarettes to dump $14,000 of repairs in. Clearly, most people don't seeing how many of those I see rusting away in driveways and yards. Insurance is also a hassle.
Depending on the kid's age, they've watched anything that was interesting to do with a car recreationally (or, recreationally in general) vanish. No loitering, paying customers only, etc., if spaces like that exist anymore. What exactly am I gonna do at 16 with a driver's license? Drive to my local strip mall and just... Idk, hang out in a Dollar General for like 10 minutes? I can go buy food, sure, but like... What else do I do? There's likely no park (and if there was, depending on the town, you can walk there easily), most definitely not an interesting store or whatever to swing by, there's fuck all to do.
Now compare that to a city, and instead of the stereotype of "in the city you can do everything and more!" that's actually much less the case these days. You've got maybe a park (coin toss on if there's benches tho), hopefully an interesting mall, a bunch of bars and clubs that won't let under-18s in easily (that also suck if you're younger than 34 from my experience), and then everything else you can find in a small town, just scaled up. Oh and there's an additional air of hostility in a city, mostly from private corps and their cameras everywhere.
In other words, there ain't shit to do for fun (unless you're near a beach/freshwater I guess).
The concept of driving a grossly expensive car is no longer in and of itself fun anymore. It's a chore. Too much traffic, too expensive a vehicle, nowadays, too expensive of gas. Oh yeah, 2026 is a great year for new drivers. Gas is now nearing $5 in some areas, that'll get them driving! Driving is now a means to an end, an end someone like me would rather not deal with as much as possible because fuck that shit, I'm good. People drive like lunatics or idiots (and there is a difference), cars are pricey, everybody's broke, everything's expensive, I'll just stay inside on my time off. Maybe go for a walk later, depending on temperature.
something8877@reddit
Back in the late 1900's Drivers Ed was offered in HighSchool, and it wasn't even required, so in addition now, people have to buy a decent used car (social media = bullying, so no Altimas please Mom & Dad), the insurance for a teenager is pretty astronomical, and before you can even get the license, you have to have completed driver's training, which also costs a lot.
I also think a lot of kids are more scared. With today's news in the palm of their hands, and every single newsworthy thing being reported, kids are seeing the many accidents caused by cars. When we were younger, the local news ran for 30 minutes, and it had to cover national news, weather, sports, local news, and commercials.. so we were ignorant to much of the real world (I miss this).
KaiTheG4mer@reddit
Also, depending on where they live, they're exposed to more car crashes in person. That's what I'm mostly dealing with (aside from being broke). I live in South Florida, aka where stupid people go to be exponentially more stupid, and the intersection near my house was used for drag racing, burnout spinning, and generally reckless driving. Two dweebs who went to my high school both had corvettes and liked abusing them, even if that meant getting in gnarly car crashes. I think one of them ended up getting hospitalized, cuz I never saw them again before my family moved, but I know a lot of other drivers they hit did get hospitalized.
DrNinjaPandaManEsq@reddit
There’s also nowhere for them to go anymore. Half the places my friends and I hung out at as teens are gone, and people these call the cops on teens hanging out in parks and such. Makes sense they wouldn’t care about a license if there’s nothing worth using it for.
tadsagtasgde@reddit
Are kids not drinking in the woods anymore?
something8877@reddit
From what I've heard or read, this generation of should be woods drinkers, just don't partake in alcohol. I think they just have too many options. They have all this fancy weed, can get it from the store, many kinds of edibles (not the homemade kind of our time), whereas we had to seek out "nickel & dime bag dude" for our little bit of reggie mixed with so many stems & seeds! & they have vapes/dabs/and alllll the other shit that's not weed.
I feel like we are going to have our grandchildren at our feet when we are rocking in our rocking chairs many years from now telling them what a keg stand was from the "late 1900's."
Kids these days don't go anywhere hardly either. It's no fun being at home with your parents drunk af.
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Who has the money for that?
tadsagtasgde@reddit
Someone gets a job at the gas station and steals booze at the end of their shift. Where have all the role models gone?
GreenBeanTM@reddit
And you get caught by the cameras and fired. Literally just happened to the girlfriend of a kid of someone my mom works with. She convinced an older co worker to buy for her and they both lost their jobs.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
I always love the “kids don’t have anything to do” comments because I grew up in a small town that was actually dead and we still found bs to do lol
Wasn’t even always shady stuff in the woods, sometimes someone would just have a bonfire or you’d wanna go hangout on your buddies porch.
whineandqis@reddit
The mall my kids could walk to did not allow anyone under 18 without a parent. There really is no where for them to go.
ehhhhhhwatevs@reddit
Yeah, I get shocked reactions fire letting my 16-yo walk a half mile away to go to the store or 2 miles to go walking around a neighborhood with her friends. They don't have anowhere else to go by themselves, are we supposed to keep them duct-taped in a closet? How are they supposed to transition to being confident, independent people before being dumped into adulthood and all the big scary stuff that comes with it?
RadioNervous6189@reddit
Say it louder!!! This is why kids need hand holding till they are 25! Let them breathe. Let them stumble. Track them on Life360 if you got it but give them some space.
tripmom2000@reddit
I think that is why Gen Xers had so much fun. We walked everywhere and we never knew who we would run into. And when one of us got a car, we all piled in. Now, you are only allowed to have one non family member in a car with you. At least, that is the law in IL.
BoltActionRifleman@reddit
Iowa is similar up to a certain age. I don’t remember the exact details anymore, but the laws are set up to discourage being with friends and also to waste fuel since you can’t ride together, and the best part…instead of 4 or 5 friends taking one car, they take 2 or 3. So what’s meant to make things safer actually puts more teens on the road driving. These policies are just idiotic.
NovelWord1982@reddit
The changed in 1999. I know because it applied to anyone who turned 18 in 2001 and I turned 18 in 2000. Half my senior class had full licenses and half the younger half had graduated licenses.
chattytrout@reddit
I think the idea is to limit casualties. So when a teenager does something stupid and wraps their car around a telephone pole, they only kill themselves and the one passenger, instead of all 5 of them.
ALmommy1234@reddit
That’s exactly it. The percentage of fatalities in a wreck goes way up if more than one teen is in the car at a time. They don’t have the experience not to get distracted by their friends.
the-coolest-bob@reddit
That's not why
chattytrout@reddit
Then how about you enlighten us as to the true purpose of limiting passengers for teenage drivers.
griffin-meister@reddit
NJ has the same thing but it doesn’t get enforced. I’ve been in cars with friends with more than one passenger and the cops don’t give a flying fuck.
Adventurous-Time5287@reddit
i think you need to tell them that a half mile should realistically only be about a 10 minute walk. they’re 16 not 6.
ehhhhhhwatevs@reddit
But they have cross roads and use the crosswalk button! It's so dangerous without somebody 2 years older! /s
equlalaine@reddit
> call the cops on teens hanging out in parks
This breaks my heart! We just got home from a trip that included Seattle. When we came out of the Pop Culture museum, we stopped for a dog and some lemonade, right there by the Space Needle. If you aren’t familiar with the area, it’s a big complex with museums, the hockey arena, and a bunch of souvenir shops and bars, play areas for small kids, etc. There was a group of teenagers jumping a couple sets of steps, and I stopped to watch. Wanted to see the kid land it after falling a couple of times.
It really stunk that I got the feeling they were uncomfortable with me watching. Kept looking over at me and talking to each other. I wasn’t close, but felt like I should keep moving on my way. I did get to see the kid nail the jump as I headed over to the picnic area where my husband and friend were sitting, and figured I could watch the rest of them go from there… not the most ideal spot, being behind the stairs, not next to them, but cool enough. By the time I got to the table, the whole group cleared out.
How many times have those kids had to talk to cops for them to get spooked when a middle-aged white chick stops to watch?
GreenBeanTM@reddit
I mean, it’s also just weird in general to stare at people you don’t know, even more so when those people are kids.
TalpaPantheraUncia@reddit
Also who tf can afford a car at that age anymore. The beater beaters will have a hard time finding parts, and most newer used cars have issues that can't be DIY fixed without software for calibration or ECU updates.
ehhhhhhwatevs@reddit
That's a big difference I hadn't thought of. When we were kids, you could get a used car and have your buddy fix it in the driveway for a case of beer. Now every repair has to go to a shop and costs at least $500.
ForestOranges@reddit
In my town parks are one of the safest places for teens. We have multiple parks in our community and one either stays open till like 12 or doesn’t close at all. When I was younger teens would stay out late playing basketball over summer and thankfully kids can still play there.
kcsews@reddit
That what I was thinking,too.i feel bad for kids. He'll, we had an under 18 disco in Boston, of all places!
spookysaph@reddit
I moved out of my parents house at 18 in 2019 (also in rural ky) and it was cheaper to just get an apartment in town lmao
mikkowus@reddit
This
RadioNervous6189@reddit
This is it. They don't have to meet in parking lots or the woods or somebody's house whose parents are away. But it is also why why they are way more socially inept. There's less observation of your peers when your world is so insular. Less time for reflection on how others lives may differ from yours or a lot of learning aspects that you get through socialization in those younger years, they are missing out.
joeymello333@reddit
That’s true. I remember back then you can be going to same high school but you and your friend live far enough where calling them is considered a long distance call :(
chirop1@reddit
Absolutely! I was on the swim team and we practiced at the same time as the high school on the north end of the county.
My freshman year, I “dated” a girl from the other school. A call from my house to hers was long distance. We could only talk when I was at my friend’s house who lived halfway between us.
TManaF2@reddit
If it's a really rural area, don't kids normally learn to drive as soon as they can reach the pedals on the tractor?
chirop1@reddit
They used to. That’s the whole point of the discussion.
Many of them don’t any more.
Rattlingplates@reddit
They don’t work anymore. They just live at home with their parents no job.
Wyndeward@reddit
Heck, I always thought the rural kids ended up with licenses sooner that 16, at least if they worked on a farm.
helloitsmejenkem@reddit
Haha I grew up there. We all got ours on day one mostly to try to find tobacco and alcohol and fornicate. Some of us had jobs though. Now 30 years later none of my nieces and nephews got theirs until they went to college they literally just didnt care at all.
Communal-Lipstick@reddit
My large number of nieces and nephews live in a place with a lot for teenagers to fo. A lot and they still dont want to get their license. Its a weird phenomenon. I think because parents are nicer now so kids arent chomping are the bit to get out of the house any.ore. they also dont want to move out at 18 either, even if money isn't an issue. Its bizarre and its country wide.
DirtyMarTeeny@reddit
I graduated 20 years ago and even then moving out at 18 was only something people did if their parents kicked them out or if they were abusive in other ways.
Communal-Lipstick@reddit
I graduated like 25 yrs ago and we moved out to have the most fun we could possibly imagine. Get 5 girls to all rent a house, everything that wasn't allowed in our parents home, we did. We didnt have abusive parents but we did have rules we were eager to stop following for a while. Or we went to college and lived on campus, I lived on my own for a bit and then college.
Thats interesting how different of an experience 5 years and a some miles are!
djjolicoeur@reddit
A larger portion of their social life is online, so the impetus isn’t as strong would be my guess. They can get their social interaction without leaving the house. We could talk to one friend at a time on the phone or all go meet somewhere when I was a kid.
T1sofun@reddit
Also, my parents just refused to drive me around more than absolutely necessary.
DonDee74@reddit
This. Modern technology has allowed many of us to easily accomplish so many things without needing to leave the house that the process of getting a DL is more of an annoyance or waste of time for them. It's also much cooler to use electric "vehicles" like bikes, skateboards, scooters, etc
coloradomama111@reddit
I was one of those kids. I could walk where I needed and my only car option was a standard that my dad insisted on teaching me to drive and he’s a shit teacher when it comes to driving. I would have much rather walked everywhere than deal with my dad yelling at me for dropping the clutch… so I did.
FolsgaardSE@reddit
Gen Alpha the Borg
thorvard@reddit
I don't want to say rural but I'm in a NJ suburb and my son has 0 interest in getting it. We pushed him, he got it(just so he'd have it) but doesn't want to drive at all.
I'd say amongst his friend group it's about 60/40 with those who drive and those who don't.
BearsLoveToulouse@reddit
I don’t live in a rural area but it doesn’t have great public transportation. My niece didn’t want to learn to drive, but there isn’t anywhere she could walk to. She lives next to a train into the city but hates the city. She was forced to learn once everyone told her how much a pain it is to learn as an adult
IHSV1855@reddit
In this way, it also depends on your family situation. My boss at work has a son who is approaching 17 and still hasn’t even done Driver’s Ed, but both my boss and his wife are willing to drop anything to drive him where he wants to go. He would have gotten his license long ago if that weren’t the case, I think.
bfs102@reddit
Im in rual west virginia
My brother is in high school and he does tell me there is a solid amount of kids that dont want a license
SaraGoesQuack@reddit
Holy cow, as a West Virginia native, life was a lot more difficult for me back when I didn't drive (I didn't start till I was 21). Luckily I lived within walking distance of my job and several stores, but if I'd lived much further out of town, I'd have been totally fucked.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
I just don’t get what their endgame plan is. Do they expect to get driven around to every place they will ever need to go? What about work?
youtheotube2@reddit
For my brother in law and cousin, their plan so far is to beg for rides when they want to go places. One of them is 22 and still has no desire to change this
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Man, that’s an extremely kind gesture just wasted
I’ve seen a lot of similar attitudes in this thread and it’s wild to me. At 22 I gave a bunch of rides for my buddies but now at 29 everyone is busy doing their own thing. Always asking for rides just isn’t feasible deeper into adulthood.
BenjaminMatlock_Esq@reddit
I think in large part there's a lack of urgency combined with a lack of opportunity. So much interaction is done online now that for many teens there isn't an existential need to leave the house when you feel like it, like there was in earlier generations.
Meanwhile the supply of beater, no frill, cheap cars that you can get for a new teenage driver is going down, the cost of insurance is going up, and so a lot of teenagers nowadays know that they're less likely even than a decade ago to be able to get a car of their own to go out with.
So you end up with a large population of teenagers who believe that basically the only times they'll need to leave the house are times they're leaving with their parents anyway.
fartofborealis@reddit
Also when I was a teen we had to pay for drivers Ed. It was something like $400 in 2004 money. I’m betting this has increased and maybe some can’t even afford it yet.
youtheotube2@reddit
We paid for the drivers ed for my brother in law and made a car available for him to use. He did nothing with it and let the drivers ed training expire unused
BravestBlossom@reddit
This is huge too. When I (born 1974) was in high school, driver's education was part of school. Now it's not.
So a parent has to pay several hundred dollars for it, drive the kid to the classes and driving sessions, AND the driver's Ed companies here (costal SC) want the students to already have 20-40 hours of driving practice with their parents!
On top of the other good points people have raised, it's a LOT different for kids now.
Nyxelestia@reddit
I also think people really underestimate how much parental involvement is really necessary for teens to get their licenses -- especially a family that is either financially comfortable or has two cars/access to more than one vehicle.
Friend of mine had a toxic family and thus never learned to drive in their youth because their parents never taught them. As an adult, they never had a fellow adult friend who a.) had a license and b.) owned their own car and c.) could afford to consistently take on the insurance risks of letting an unlicensed friend drive their car around for the dozens of hours needed to get the license. Now they live with their girlfriend, who has the car and license. However, right now only the girlfriend is employed and needs the car to get to work, and my friend cannot start practicing until they get their savings to the point that if my friend made a mistake and something happened to the car, they could still get by (i.e. rental car, ubers, etc.) If they tried to learn right now and my friend made a mistake, they would be financially fucked.
And given the current economy, building up that kind of savings is just...not going well.
BravestBlossom@reddit
Definitely part of the answer!! Several of my teens' friends are in the situation you describe!
OfficeChair70@reddit
My brother just turned 16, he doesn’t have a license but my parents are going to put him through school over the summer, it’s now almost 1000 once you include required behind the wheel lessons, it was maybe 700 7 years ago when I went through for me it was a big cost that they had to budget for, but their income hasn’t really gone up since, and their expenses certainly have.
AddictedToOxygen@reddit
Wow just checked my area and you're right - over 1k. And that's just classroom time (w behind the wheel time expected to be done by parents). I think it was like 250 or something when I did it.
fartofborealis@reddit
Mine was required for graduation but not included in the fees. It’s a total racket.
PandaBean1@reddit
We absolutely cannot afford to pay for any of our kids to go thru driver’s training. I went thru it thru the school, so it was free (as far as I know. It was a summer class, not part of the school year.)
We cannot afford a car or the insurance for any of our kids. My parents were able to pass down old cars and help me a little with buying my first beater. They were able to afford the insurance. We cannot barely afford our one vehicle.
echelon42@reddit
$400? I took drivers Ed in high school in 2003 and it was free. Everyone in my clas took it. That was actually the only spme of them could actually get their license. And this was a poorly funded county school in rual Alabama.
smarmiebastard@reddit
When I was in school drivers ed was free. I looked it up for my kid and it was like $800. We decided to wait until they were 18 for a license because then drivers Ed is no longer required. That kid is 20 now and still has no urge to get a license now that gas is almost $6 a gallon.
Bootmacher@reddit
You signaled that it wasn't urgent.
smarmiebastard@reddit
Eh, the city we live in has decent public transportation, so it really isn’t that urgent. They get to work and friends’ houses by bus so I’m not having to drive them around anywhere.
fartofborealis@reddit
My parents were flabbergasted to learn that it was not included. I had to chip in. I went through with it though and am very happy I have my license now.
False_Counter9456@reddit
In Ohio, the age is now 21 to get a license without the class. Cheapest class in my area is like $500.
doodynutz@reddit
We didn’t have it when I got my license in 2007.
mrsairb@reddit
In our public school drivers ed was $400 for our son. Private drivers ed is anywhere from 1,000-1400 in our area.
Educational-Yam-682@reddit
Cost of insurance will kill you. It’s insane how much it goes up a month.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
I think they might be expecting to pay $40 a ride to an Uber driver every time they need to go somewhere. I'm not sure it's a viable plan.
NMS-KTG@reddit
have, nor cares to have a license right now.
I walk to work
I live in a fairly walkable area. 90% of places I need to go to, I can walk to in a feasible amount of time.
There's no "family car" Our main car is specifically used to drive my disabled brother around. I can't touch it
I have no desire to pay hundreds between insurance, gas, and maintenance when the benefits at my current stage in life are negligible.
Even if I wanted a license, getting one is such a pain due to points 1 and 3
turdferguson3891@reddit
You live in one of the few parts of the US where that is viable.
NMS-KTG@reddit
I know, I live here
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
And you're saying that everyone in the country is in the same position as you? I mean I understand you are in a fairly sweet situation because I am myself, as well, but I know there are millions of people out there not like me who are living in places where not having a car is a serious hindrance. Instead of telling me what you do, tell me what those people will do. That's the real question.
NMS-KTG@reddit
Holy shit dude calm the fuck down😭😭I was just giving my perspective.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
No you were humble bragging, basically. About how you're better than people who want or need a car.
It's fine if you want to do that.
NMS-KTG@reddit
?? dawg I'm living in section 8 housing 😭?
LightedAirway@reddit
Don’t forget too that plenty of states also have more restrictive laws now about teen drivers carrying passengers and sometimes even times of day - so, higher cost, more hassle, less opportunity and lower incentives…
Oh - and their end game - lots of them are putting their voices behind improved public transportation.
turdferguson3891@reddit
Even in the 90s when I was 16 I didn't have a license and I was in Southern California so it's not like I didn't need one. It was just that my parents made it very clear they weren't paying for me to have a car so I just got it when I was 18 and heading off to college.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
The used car market is definitely a problem but I feel like the opportunity is still generally there. When I was in HS a decade ago my buddies and I would find time to drive our parents cars to hangout.
Maybe I just don’t get how it’s socially changed so much since then. We were chronically online but still wanted to hangout in person. It felt like our parents encouraged us to be independent in our late teens.
I’m not a parent yet, but I don’t see how I’d not want my child to learn self reliance. I won’t be able to provide for them forever.
NMS-KTG@reddit
have, nor cares to have a license right now.
I walk to work
I live in a fairly walkable area. 90% of places I need to go to, I can walk to in a feasible amount of time.
There's no "family car" Our main car is specifically used to drive my disabled brother around. I can't touch it
I have no desire to pay hundreds between insurance, gas, and maintenance when the benefits at my current stage in life are negligible.
Even if I wanted a license, getting one is such a pain due to points 1 and 3
BenjaminMatlock_Esq@reddit
A lot of it probably is just that shift in mindset that you and I can't fathom, that a critical mass of teens today just want to stay inside instead of going out, even without accounting for the difference in the content that's online. The stuff online now is so much more designed to keep these kids locked to it.
And we should also bear in mind that this cohort had a good chunk of their formative ages absolutely upended and forced behind a screen. The children turning 16 now (including recently and in the near future)were in roughly 3rd to 7th grade when COVID hit and their entire lives went onto a screen for a year or more.
OutsidePainter3548@reddit
I grew up in Midwest Suburbia and didn't get my license until I was 18.
My friends just gave me rides and sometimes my parents and sometimes my siblings.
For me it was mostly a money issue. I didn't want to pay several hundred dollars for driving school and I also didn't have money to buy a car in the first place. I could've borrowed my mom's car sometimes, and when I did get my license we shared a car, but it didn't afford me much extra freedom.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Driving school isn’t a requirement though. I got my permit and practiced with my dad in a parking lot every week until my drivers test.
OutsidePainter3548@reddit
Maybe not where you are, but in my state it is.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Well I learned something new lol
That’s wild to me. I only got my license in 2014 and I just had to log a certain amount of hours with a parent and pass a formal driving exam.
WesternTrail@reddit
I’m a millennial who didn’t get my license until my early 20s, and didn’t start driving regularly or get a car for years after that. Honestly, driving made me nervous. I put off practicing whenever possible. I could do this because I lived in a large city, had parents who could drive me where I wanted to go, was find just seeing friends at school, and went to college in a pretty self-contained area. Then after I graduated I only applied for jobs that I could take transit to. There was no real need for me to drive until I met a cute man from the suburbs.
MouseInternal1773@reddit
Taking Uber everywhere is cheaper than owning a car by a lot.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Ubers are ridiculously expensive in my city, like I dropped $40 on one for a 15 minute drive last week. If I had to do that every day it’s over $1000 a month.
My car payments + insurance + gas is around $500 a month.
Abject-Committee-429@reddit
I'd imagine that they're planning on (or would like to plan) moving away to somehwere where they don't need a car.
RedStateKitty@reddit
Well in most areas of the US that's not a viable plan!
Royal_Success3131@reddit
Where do they have to go? Grocery delivery, door dash, Amazon, discord, TikTok, Instagram, tinder, etc all have everything they need right from the comfort of their couch.
boldjoy0050@reddit
I didn't get my license until I was 18. Didn't affect me in any way whatsoever. My parents took me places, or friends with licenses. And I just walked to school.
tiffanydisasterxoxo@reddit
Im 35 never had my license. Public transit, bike, walking, ubers.
doodynutz@reddit
I work with a girl that is in her late 20s and doesn’t have a license. She Ubers to/from work….as a nurse.
christine-bitg@reddit
What their thoughts are goes like this:
They think everything can be done remotely, on their phones, by text message.
They are, of course, seriously mistaken.
Poltergoose1416@reddit
I don't know but I've noticed this too even in people in their early 20s
HMonster224@reddit
My friend's younger cousin had her mom drive her everywhere through high school, then went to college in the same city and my guess is her mom still picked her up for anything away from campus. Then she moved to a city with public transportation. Pretty sure she still doesn't have a license. These kids are weird, and were weirdly coddled by their parents.
KingDarius89@reddit
Eh. I don't currently have a license. I'm almost legally blind without my glasses. Not going to risk killing someone for the sake of my own convenience.
tcspears@reddit
I think many kids get used to Uber before they can drive, so why take on the expense of a vehicle if you don’t need it?
Plus with more people working remote, or living in the city they work in, driving is less of a priority.
Buckabuckaw@reddit
My grandson fits in this group of teenagers. He learned to drive but feels no urgency about getting a license or his own vehicle. He lives in the Bay Area, with easy access to transit services and rideshare programs. And owning a vehicle is a pain in the butt in an area where parking space is rare and expensive.
NMS-KTG@reddit
I'll speak to this as an 18 year old who does not have, nor cares to have a license right now.
I walk to work
I live in a fairly walkable area. 90% of places I need to go to, I can walk to in a feasible amount of time.
There's no "family car" Our main car is specifically used to drive my disabled brother around. I can't touch it
I have no desire to pay hundreds between insurance, gas, and maintenance when the benefits at my current stage in life are negligible.
Even if I wanted a license, getting one is such a pain due to points 1 and 3.
GiraffesCantSwim@reddit
How many times are you going to copy and paste this answer? We get it.
Char_siu_for_you@reddit
They’re gonna take the tractor to town.
bluepanic21@reddit
Self driving cars ?
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
They likely don't go outside on a regular enough basis to warrant it.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Yes. They don't plan on ever leaving home and moving out on their own. Why should they? Their parents take care of everything.
The above is all a part of the shifting mindset. It used to be when you graduated high school you moved out on your own (or rather, moved in with friends to split the rent). Kids aren't doing that nowadays.
iwantalltheham@reddit
Nobody can afford a car, let alone a house. We just have to wait for the boomers to die and live off the scraps.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Then is it on the parents? I understand caring for your kids but you can’t provide for them forever.
It’s just bizarre to me how quickly this changed. I was in HS only 11 years ago and driving was treated like a huge deal. Everyone’s parents encouraged it so that we could take ourselves to school, practice, friends houses, etc.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Side-effect of helicopter parenting and nosey neighbors. We live in an age where Child Protective Services are notified on kids playing outside by themselves, sometimes in their own yards, or walking to school by themselves. In the age of extreme hyper-sensitivity to child safety, kids aren't learning to be self-reliant anymore.
bfs102@reddit
Not a clue
My buddies younger sister doesnt want a license as she said she wants to move to a city. Their dad said we'll you dont live in one now so your getting your license
serious_sarcasm@reddit
Just going off dating in rural America, yes, but it’s very specific to people under 24 for now.
tarheel_204@reddit
I’m in rural NC. My best friend’s little brother (he’s in HS) told us the same thing. We’ve heard of many such cases from family friends where their kids simply have no desire or urgency to get their license.
Personally, I was at the DMV the morning of my 16th so I could finally go through the Bojangles drive thru like a “true adult” 😂
Haluszki@reddit
When I turned 16 and bought my first car, I drove straight to the grocery store and bought myself a couple of king crab legs and ate them in the car sitting in the parking lot. Both cars and crab legs were attainable things for a 16 year old with a job back in the mid-1990s.
Radiant_Maize2315@reddit
Go Heels!
YouOr2@reddit
This is the most North Carolina story I’ve ever heard 👍
exit322@reddit
Well yeah but your Bojangles probably has bone in chicken, so that's an experience worth going for!
commanderquill@reddit
It's because the second they get one, their parents will a) want them to drive themselves and their siblings everywhere, and b) pay for gas. Which is expensive as fuck.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
When I was in HS just 11 years ago literally everyone wanted to get their license so they could drive themselves everywhere. The idea of going through a drive thru or going to my friends house on my own was really cool.
Parents should encourage their kids to go out and do some things on their own once they hit 16. Self reliance is a massive trait for high schoolers who are about to hit the real world.
bfs102@reddit
No its not
My buddies sister doesnt want one and her reasoning is because she wants to live in the city so she has no reason to
llamadogmama@reddit
I don't get this idea. Are they also not interested in jobs? Dating? Going to town? For me car=freedom.
soulstoned@reddit
I have two high school kids, also in rural WV, and one of them is in no hurry to drive and keeps telling me he's not ready yet when I offer to help him study for the written test.
He's still 16, so I'm not pushing hard yet, but by the time he graduates high school he really needs to be working toward being able to drive.
bfs102@reddit
I dont know what they think they will do
Im only 21 but have been working since I was like 14 since I wanted games but my parents wouldn't buy them for me. I hated asking for people to drive me so I wanted a license so I could work
soulstoned@reddit
My oldest drives and has a job at 17, but my youngest has anxiety issues and I think the idea of being behind the wheel just scares him. I'm trying to be patient because I understand anxiety sucks and I don't really need him to drive right now, but part of my job as his mom is to make sure he gains independence as he grows up and where we live driving is a big part of that.
bfs102@reddit
I do get the anxiety part now a few people with it
Fortunately from what Ive seen in them that clears up once they actually get time behind the wheel
Legend13CNS@reddit
I have younger family around that age or college age, besides the one that's into cars like me the rest just see owning a car as a burden you throw money at. I got my license as soon as I could "only" 15 years ago, and I think most of the benefits we got from that aren't really available anymore. Places (including malls!) kick kids out for being under 18 without an adult, if you're just chilling somewhere at night the cops show up, pretty much every concert venue is 18+ or 21+, parents insist on those super invasive tracking apps. The places you'd expect teens to hang out are gone or too expensive now. When my friends and I got our licenses the world was our oyster and now it mostly means you can drive yourself to and from school or work.
chaosrulz0310@reddit
My kids…pushing my youngest now he just turned 16 goal is license by end of summer. They just don’t want to drive.
Always_Reading_1990@reddit
Funnily enough, my nephew in rural WV is 21 and still doesn’t have a license.
intheether323@reddit
My son is 15 and in no hurry to even get his learner’s. And I’m okay with it because his generation is nowhere near as real-world savvy as we were at that age.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
Used cars are more expensive than they used to be too. Reducing the number of teens who can afford a car.
WastingTime2022@reddit
Also insurance rates for teen drivers are much higher than they used to be.
And a California specific concern is that there are a ton more restrictions on new drivers than there was 20 or so years ago. (No nighttime driving, no passengers under 20 (with some narrow exceptions))
Whenever I drive by my old suburban CA high school it's amazing to me how much of the parking lot has been consumed by other buildings. They just don't need the same amount of student parking they used to.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
Same here. They can’t have anyone in the car with them under 18 until they’ve had the license for a year.
Radiant-Pomelo-3229@reddit
I’m helping a friend look for a car and am amazed at how many nice-looking cars are in the $2,000-$3,500 range on marketplace. I feel like I was paying the same prices for cars 20 years ago. Maybe they’re just crappy
Rick-20121@reddit
I got my drivers license in Montana when I was 14 years old. My peers did too. Exactly 3 of the 71 members of my graduating class had cars of their own. They were used beaters. The rest of us could occasionally borrow a family vehicle for special occasions.
I now live in Virginia. There are hundreds of nice new cars in the student parking lots of the high schools near me. They actually have 3-4 acre parking lots for the kids. I’m thinking the cost of cars these days isn’t as big a problem as you report.
TallWalmartCovington@reddit
And you can't just do like these geniuses say and buy a scooter. That's stupid.
rainbwbrightisntpunk@reddit
I dont live in a rural area, but we have zero public transit and nothing is walkable and these kids still won't drive. They want mommy and daddy to drive them
TallWalmartCovington@reddit
How do they drive if they can't get a job? Cars don't grow on trees.
rainbwbrightisntpunk@reddit
I have friends that have gotten their kids cars paid for all the classes and the kids refuse to learn
TallWalmartCovington@reddit
That just genuinely sucks. I lit up earlier finding out I had a small chance for a 24 year old explorer
Rumpelteazer45@reddit
Agree. Rural areas it’s still more common, though it is becoming less common.
I think less teenagers are feeling that pull of freedom that comes with getting a license. With tablets, smart phones, and laptops - you don’t need to leave your house or tie up the landline to talk with friends.
sfdsquid@reddit
It's even more annoying on the way back. 😂
K_Linkmaster@reddit
You have a grocery store. Thats a bonus dude. My town had a gas station but no grocery. And the gas station was that annoying walk. Just enough to melt the ice cream on the way home.
EggSpecial5748@reddit
My kids are adults now but they also grew up rural and my son didn’t get his license until he was 23.
davidm2232@reddit
I'm in rural NYS and there are a lot of younger people not getting their licenses. They are scared to drive. It is concerning.
mikeh0677@reddit
Scared? Why? What do you suppose is different to make them more scared than previous generations?
davidm2232@reddit
I think helicopter parenting is part of it. They spent their whole life hearing 'the world is dangerous. We have to be so careful'. Some is that they were never allowed to go out alone growing up. From the time I was 6 or 7, I was walking to school on my own and by 10, I was spending the whole day miles from home. No cell phone either. They are scared of the responsibility
mikeh0677@reddit
Thank you. I am in CT and had a similar experience to you growing up (in the 60s and 70s).
davidm2232@reddit
Mine wasn't even that long ago. I was born in '93.
Communal-Lipstick@reddit
Even in rural areas, less kids are getting their license and parents have to push their kids to do it where as before, kids counted down the days and would push their parent to take thrm on their b-day.
ReyWinn@reddit
In Alabama heat in the summer, that 10+ mile walk makes you feel like death, lol.
LethargicCarcass@reddit
Are 16 year olds that worried about getting to the grocery store though?
deltagma@reddit
I’m in the Army and a majority of our young recruits, even from the country, haven’t driven… it’s really annoying tbh
Chemical-Quality-186@reddit
If its only far enough to be annoying then you live in a suburb compared to what ive always known as rural. 10-15 miles one way to the ONLY grocery store...and its still barely more than a jumped up convenience store. Gotta go 2 towns over for actual groceries.
oharacopter@reddit
It's the same in cities too (where I am at least). I'm in California and I can either drive 10 minutes to the nearest grocery store, bus for 30 minutes, or walk over an hour. No thanks!
deathbychips2@reddit
Even in rural and suburban areas.
TranslatorBoring2419@reddit
Ebikes are doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
Bootmacher@reddit
Dude, I live in Waller. My co-worker's 17-year-old son is having to be coaxed into getting a license. Late Gen Z is just too neurotic to drive.
beatbox21@reddit
It's not just about getting it, but being excited to get it.
Mysterious-Tie7039@reddit
Yup. I was in the Navy as an instructor for a while and would get young sailors largely out of high school.
Unless you lived in an inner city that had excellent public transit and having a car was more of a burden, I never understood how anybody got that far in life without having it.
Also growing up rural, it was freedom for me to be able to drive myself to my friends’ houses
cautiously-curious65@reddit
I’m currently living 15 minutes from a gas station, and about 25 minutes from a grocery store… and I am 2 hours north of nyc.. the gas station is the closest business of any type.
Lack of a drivers license made me live in nyc for 15 years.. (loved it) like.. you can’t survive in my town without one.
When my husband wanted to move to my home town, I was like, “absolutely not if I can’t drive and have my own car.”
I have a car and a license now.
But, apparently city people don’t understand that walking 15 miles with bags of groceries is not “pleasant”
Like in his head, I think he thought “town is only a couple minutes away” and I was like, “yes.. when driving 55 miles an hour.”
Like, that’s a long ass walk. Like, walking distance wise it’s longer than the entire length of Manhattan to get an onion, and he’s like “oh it’s not so far”..
Dude, it’s a 6 hour walk if you’re walking briskly and not taking breaks…
This is an hour and a half bike ride.
And that’s one way. There’s been a lot of these moments where my cityboy husband is like.. completely unhinged. Thankfully it’s only happened a couple times infront of other people.
It takes all my effort to not just say “honey, it’s 15 miles… you want me to walk 6 hours there and 6 hours back for an onion?..”
TallWalmartCovington@reddit
And good luck getting said car that is one of the few ways to get money, which is what you need for a car. I love when geniuses from dense European cities with teleporter pads and perfect sidewalks smoother than a pancake tell me to just walk to work. I'd have a job right now if it was that easy.
CigaretteWaterX@reddit
Worth noting that the rural-urban divide has become more and more biased towards urban/suburban year after year. So yeah, way more kids not getting a license.
earmares@reddit
I'm in rural Wyoming, there are still plenty of kids without licenses now.
beachbum818@reddit
I didn't get my license until I was 19 or 20. Living in NYC there wasn't a need
6gravedigger66@reddit
True!
AcademicSavings634@reddit
I was a late bloomer. I don’t get license until 25.
AcademicSavings634@reddit
Most of them just drive illegally.
Adorable-Award-2975@reddit
My teen is completely uninterested in getting his license.
BankManager69420@reddit
Yeah. I didn’t get one until 18 because I just walk, bike, or use public transit. I only knew one person with a license in high school.
NotherOneRedditor@reddit
In my area, part of the issue is the change in requirements for getting a license. Back in the day, it was passing the written test, 3 months of permit, and a nearly drop in drive test. Now, it’s driver’s ed, a certain number of hours (equating to 6-9 months of driving), and the driving test.
Here, the driver’s ed is only offered twice a year and fills up fast. You have to be a certain age to sign up for it so if you’re between the cutoff, that automatically adds 6 months. THEN the driving hours. Right now to take the test, the soonest appointment is 6 months out. I’m not 100% sure, but I think the process can start at 15 + 3 months. Best case scenario, you can test at 16 + 3 months. That’s if you’re really ambitious. When your parents, friends, and/or siblings are willing to drive you around, there’s not much incentive.
My niece started the process on time, but won’t get her license for minimally 6 months after she turns 16 because of the class and test schedule.
Penelope_Ann@reddit
I took Driver's Ed class at 14 & got my full license on my 15th bday (1995).
foreveramoore@reddit
My 17 year old has a car, but refuses to get his license. I will probably end up just selling it. It has sat in the driveway since June last year. I'm not sure what his game plan is.
Myfourcats1@reddit
Do you drive him everywhere he wants to go? Stop doing that. It’s your responsibility to make him get his license. You’re the adult. I had a friend in college whose parents died in a car wreck when she was 17? What is your plan? Who cares what he wants?
foreveramoore@reddit
I can't force him to study, you can't make anyone do what they don't want. He doesn't go anywhere. I don't take him anywhere. My plan is to send him to jobcore at 18 and hopefully that will help. If you think you know how to force a person into doing something they refuse to do, please enlighten me.
LupercaniusAB@reddit
Why did he get a car without having a driver’s license?
foreveramoore@reddit
My parents got a new car and gave it to him for his 16th birthday.
Figgler@reddit
Like actually new or new to them? A brand new car sitting and not being used is crazy.
foreveramoore@reddit
No. Parents got themselves a new car to them car, actually older than the one they gave us, they found an awesome deal on a 2007 Toyota camery with only 30k the car they gave my son was a 2012 chevy sedan of some sort I've forgotten and I'm too lazy to go look right now. I drove it all the way from TN to ok. Runs fine. Looks nice. He has no desire whatsoever to learn to drive. Says he can Uber or ride the bus.
choglin@reddit
You’re in OK? Where at? I’m in Tulsa and this city is not walkable at all. If you didn’t have a driver’s license I feel like it would be a pretty tough situation.
foreveramoore@reddit
Okc
echelon42@reddit
Uber? For the money it cost to hire an Uber you can use for gas money and get SO many more trips to wherever hes going.
I dunno, some people just hate driving THAT much
RedStateKitty@reddit
Well uber isn't always an option. Even in fairly densely populated areas. We tried to get one over a period of about two hours to attend a wedding in NJ. No ubers active! We ended up driving ourselves and one of us ended up not drinking because of it.
foreveramoore@reddit
Yeah I'm not sure how he plans on paying for it with his nonexistant job, but I'm ready to sell it and pay off my debt instead of working a second job this summer.
buckylug@reddit
I would also say sweet sixteens
Suspicious-Boot9652@reddit
Fully agree. I remember literally calculating the days until I was 15 1/2 to get my permit and was in there within the week of me turning 16 to get my license. A lot of kids are waiting until 18-21 to get them if they do, it’s wild to me. They of course still hate taking public transit even when it’s available though so it’s still rides from parents or Ubers now.
paranoid_70@reddit
In 1987, I was 16 years and 9 months when I got my Driver's License. At the time I felt like I was kind of late.
Dock_Ellis_Fastball@reddit
Got mine in '97 on my 16th birthday
mylocker15@reddit
Where I am they probably just steal mom’s Tesla at age 13 and sleep in the drivers seat till they reach the destination.
Ok_Ant_2930@reddit
What has changed for teens to not get their license at 16?
galacticdude7@reddit
My theory is that teenagers these days do less socializing in physical places these days, they hang out online, so there's less of an incentive to drive. People my age might have learned how to drive so that they could drive themselves to the mall to hang out with friends and not be reliant on asking Mom for a ride, which just isn't the case for teenagers today.
Plus there's so many restrictions placed on licenses for first time drivers these days, you can't drive after 10:30PM, you can't have more than one passenger with you in the car, etc, so a driver's license at 16 is just a lot less useful than it was.
And frankly unless you're getting help from your parents in terms of having access to a car and paying for insurance and maintenance on said car, it's probably too expensive for teenagers today to drive anyways. Why spend your free time working a part time job that is likely minimum wage to pay for a car that you can't legally fully use and doesn't offer much benefit otherwise?
MaddoxJKingsley@reddit
It's no longer part of high school classes in many cases. Personally I only knew a handful of kids who got licenses in high school, and I didn't start driving until like 23. Years later and I've still not had to buy a car yet.
Birdywoman4@reddit
I was born in the late-50’s. Went to a large high school. There were the students from wealthier families that would get their learner’s permits the first day they were eligible, their parents would gift them with a new car to learn to drive in. They didn’t even wait till they were 16 and got their driver’s license. And some of those parents would buy them a new car when they graduated.
YourOwnPunkyBrewster@reddit
Totally, and as a subset to that rite of passage: “cruising the Ave” (or whatever local nomenclature for driving with your friends up and down certain areas town, showing off/looking for friends, etc) That doesn’t exist in my town anymore
Super_Appearance_212@reddit
Where I live, driver's ed is no longer offered in high school, and classes are rather expensive. This has made it much harder for teens to learn to drive.
TheSadMarketer@reddit
I’m 35 and just now getting my drivers license. A big part of it for me was a dislike of cars, anxiety, and a contrarian streak. I moved out at 18 and have lived in three different states and it hasn’t been a problem.
Chodge1258@reddit
23M, I was 18 and waited until i HAD to. My gf was like 20.
DontRunReds@reddit
I am a millennial and I did not bother getting my driver's license until it was required for a job I wanted after college. I co-purchased my first car in my mid-twenties with my now husband. It was not until a couple of years ago that we had two cars for two adults and we may go back to one soon.
I think car costs aside, the necessity of driving depends a hell of a lot on how compact your city or town is. My rural town is compact and the climate is mild, so you can get by without a car unless you have mobility limitations, stuff to haul, or children to chauffeur on a tight timeline. Most of the time, I am within a couple of miles of my home.
beatbox21@reddit
Yeah, but you didn't crave the independence?
Status-Dog4293@reddit
Cars aren’t independence, they’re the very definition of dependence, it’s a heavily depreciating, expensive asset for which you need to get and maintain a special license to operate, you need to fuel and insure the vehicle, you need to maintain the vehicle and then you have to find a place to store it everywhere you go. And on top of all that, you need to worry about all the other idiots with their own vehicles who will just as soon kill you because one or both of you failed to pay attention.
It’s a goddamn albatross around your neck. It took me until my 20s to learn this and now in my 40s you couldn’t pay me enough to own a car again.
DontRunReds@reddit
I had a bike and two good legs. I did not need a car as a teenager nor college student home on summer and winter breaks.
I still bike and walk a lot. There are also some transit options.
1911Earthling@reddit
I got my drivers license and draft card all in the same year. I was 16.
choglin@reddit
You got a draft card? Hmm I don’t remember actually getting a physical card.
1911Earthling@reddit
Oh yes. We burned them during the Vietnam war.
choglin@reddit
Ahh, I see
Own_Lab_3499@reddit
My wifes half brother is 18 and doesnt have his license yet. He works in the same location and same shifts as his parents, so he just rides with them to work.
He says he can just buy everything online/door dash, so he doesnt need to drive. He has no desire to get out of the house.
Konradleijon@reddit
I don’t want to have to drive
Lowcord@reddit
I got mine at 17 and felt like I waited forever.
nadah69321@reddit
From sf I am seeing so many teenagers rely on rides from friends/family or uber, or simply just not go out.
False_Counter9456@reddit
Part of that, at least in our area, is they removed driver's Ed from school. Until this year, kids just waited until they turned 18 and took the test. Now you can't do that until you turn 21 unless you pay out of pocket for driver's Ed. That's generally a $500 class. Kids won't have the out of pocket $500 or time to take the class. So, now they will just wait until they're 21.
byebybuy@reddit
I think they might have had drivers ed at my high school (20+ years ago) but the vast majority of us took it outside of school because we didn't want to waste a school period with it. At 17.5 in California you don't need that anymore anyway, it's just for 15.5-17.5.
False_Counter9456@reddit
In my town in Ohio, it was a mandatory class your sophomore year. It took the place of gym or a study hall for 1 semester. I graduated in 2002. I think they removed it around 2010. They said the insurance was too high and it was removed. Most parents I have talked to said they would pay an extra 250 in school fees instead of 500 for classes outside of school. We paid an extra 50 in school fees the year you had driver's Ed.
choglin@reddit
Similar situation here. I’m from Illinois and driver’s ed was a required class in our school. I graduated 1999. Not sure if they still teach it there. My cousin teaches there now. I should find out.
unsound-choices@reddit
Where are you that you need to wait until 21? Thats crazy/first time I've heard it. I think you could get your licence at 17 instead of 18 if you took drivers Ed way back in 94.
False_Counter9456@reddit
The great state of Ohio. You can get it before you turn 21 if you take driver's Ed. Most of the kids I talk to, want it, but they or their parents can't afford the classes. So they waited until they turned 18. In the fall of '25 they changed it to where you can't get your license until you're 21 unless you take driver's Ed classes.
duke_awapuhi@reddit
A coworker was telling me recently how her 18 year old daughter has intentionally failed every driving test because she wants to just take Ubers everywhere
MaterialInevitable83@reddit
Idk everyone in my class (HS senior) has a license and a car except maybe 1 or 2
Granted a wealthy private school but still
Tejanisima@reddit
High school drivers' ed classes are certainly not a thing in most places anymore.
WhiskeyAndWhiskey97@reddit
I’m surprised. I grew up in a suburb of NYC, and I couldn’t get a permit at 16 because my parents wouldn’t sign off. I’m a late fall baby and they didn’t want me driving in snow. Once spring arrived, I insisted, got my permit, qualified for my license within three months (in NYC!), and soon became a better driver than my own mother. I do know a couple of folks who never got licenses - one of them lived in Manhattan, and he figured, why get a license when the subway and bus system could get him anywhere he needed to go?
Aromatic-Ad-9688@reddit
Totally agree!
ElleM848645@reddit
Even 25 years ago many states you couldn’t get your license the day you turned 16. You could get your permit at 16 and then had to take drivers ed. If you were under 18 you couldn’t get your license until you took drivers ed. I got my license at 16, but I was 16 and 9 months.
froction@reddit
My birthday was on a Saturday that year, so I had to wait until age 15 years and 2 days!
Creepy-Selection2423@reddit
This one. A lot of states have made it very difficult for a 16-year-old to get a license right away on their 16th birthday.
Underground_turtles@reddit
My state hasn't made it any more difficult to get a license than it was when I got my license 35 years ago. And there is a TON more for kids to do in our city. And yet, a good half of my teens' friends don't drive. I had to make two of my 3 kids get theirs. It's weird.
IllustratorScared623@reddit
That is insane to me. I live in rural Ohio where everything is at least 5 miles away and everyone at my school over 16 has their license. I feel like it’s way more convenient to be able to drive yourself to practice, school, and your friend’s houses at whatever times work best instead of waiting for buses or parents. I don’t understand how people could not want their license as a 16 year old myself.
Ok-Highway-5247@reddit
I wasn’t allowed to get mine when I turned 16 in the 2010s. My parents felt driving and having a car were not a priority at that age and that getting good grades and reading books were more important. Also, I turned 16 at the end of 10th grade anyway so I wouldn’t have been able to start driving on my own until later junior year.
I felt kind of embarassed that I was so young and couldn’t get my permit when other kids in my grade could.
AnonymousFordring@reddit
My parents just didn't bother helping me
Dense_Amphibian_9595@reddit
My kids both got their license when they were 16 - like on their birthdays. For me, the car meant freedom. Not having to ride the bus to school with the rednecks. Being able to drive to my friends’ house.
But in my state, if you’re under 18, you get essentially a restricted license where you cannot carry passengers for the first year. So if you wait until you’re almost 17 to get your license, you’ll be 18 before you can carry anyone.
printergumlight@reddit
That’s weird. You can’t get anywhere without driving still. It’s not like public transit has improved in that time.
Fond78@reddit
HS teacher here- this has been trending for the last 15 years. Teens feel connected through their digital lives
JustTheBeerLight@reddit
Everything is much more expensive now than a few years ago: the car, the insurance, the gas...teens can't afford that shit.
beatbox21@reddit
That boggles my mind. My nephews and nieces were like that. No hurry. It was a HUGE right of passage for me.
I do get that it's a lot more expensive now.
cardifan@reddit
I love this. Thankful to live somewhere with great public transportation.
My teenager goes all over the city. I also like that I won't have to worry about him drunk driving (like I probably did too many times in high school), because he'll just hop on a bus or train.
Solid_Reserve_5941@reddit
Granted I turned 16 over a decade ago but I couldn't get my license right away simply bc I nor my family could afford car insurance for me. Had to wait til I was 18 for that reason
Outrageous-Pin-4664@reddit
And fewer of them driving out to the woods to build a bonfire and drink beer.
Possible_Shoulder_50@reddit
My daughter is 28 and still hasn’t learned to drive. We tried when she was 15 and she refused. I remember me and my friends couldn’t wait to drive. That meant freedom and dates and making out.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
It won't even be up to my son, he's getting it.
I'll be tired of carting his ass around by then.
Ali_Lorraine_1159@reddit
My son is only 11, but I'm going to start teaching him to drive out in the country in a few years. I want him to get his license as soon as he turns 16, so when he is in High School, he can drive himself to school. He will turn 16 in Sept of 10th grade (sophomore.)
No-Ganache7168@reddit
My daughter is 23 and and still doesn’t have one. She went to college in a city with great public transit. She’s home now in a small town with no public transit and I have to drive her to work every day. But she refuses to learn bc she’s determined to live in a large city once she finds a job in one.
LupercaniusAB@reddit
Stop driving her to work.
Maxpowr9@reddit
Eventually, insurance will be so expensive for those under 18, that only rich kids will have them.
WackoHedgehog@reddit
I didn't get mine until I was 24 because I don't like going anywhere unless I have to. Almost 9 years later and I still hate driving places.
Icy-Whale-2253@reddit
I still don’t have one 💀 I always say I’ll get around to it and then another year goes by
trashpanda6798@reddit
Imagine the cost of insuring a teen driver in this economy 🤣
Manatee369@reddit
Seems to be increasing, too. The degree of disconnection from the outside world is unhealthy and baffling. (I count my eldest grand among the no-licensers.)
Common-Parsnip-9682@reddit
And then spending summer evenings “cruising Main.”
Old_Ant7118@reddit
Buying a house as a young adult
quietly_annoying@reddit
Babysitting a neighbor's children when you're still a preteen yourself.
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
Naw, we still do that for small stuff. 12 year old neighbor girls can watch the kids. Their parents are right next door, we're not going far. It's cool.
That being said, even 30 years ago I don't much remember many pre-teens doing babysitting, that was more of a 13+ kind of gig.
crazycatlady331@reddit
The Babysitter's Club was my favorite book series in late elementary school.
THe characters in the series are 11 and 13.
ElleM848645@reddit
I babysat a lot as a 12 year old in the mid 90s. 12-16 making babysitting money. Not as many young teenagers babysitting nowadays.
SunshineBLim@reddit
I babysat for 3 siblings when I was 13/14. They were all younger than 7. I was solely responsible for taking care of them, feeding them, naps etc. Luckily it was at my home and my mom and siblings were around, but it was a lot for 6-8 hours, a few days a week, for the summer. Sometimes I'd have their youngest sibling, who was a toddler. So 4 kids.
I am in my 50s now, and still in contact with the older two.
ShinyAppleScoop@reddit
When I suggested that high school kids can keep an eye on younger siblings early in the pandemic, I was torn a new one. Obviously, teenagers can't do their own ASYNCHRONOUS work if they have to help their siblings. /s
AreYouLadyFolk@reddit
I babysat a 5 year old 40 hours a week in the summer when I was 12 (2006). Even at the time I wondered why anyone had allowed me to do this, it was way too much work for a kid. I got robbed, too, that parent gave me like $10 per week.
Gloomy-Albatross-843@reddit
I took a few-hour class through our community ed when I was 11. I then went and babysat an infant for the whole month before school started.
Hot_Depth_3367@reddit
SAME! It was a Red Cross clas that included cpr.
DontRunReds@reddit
Kids still do that where I live. Massive childcare shortage. Lots of middle schoolers watching little kids especially over the summer when preschools are on break.
beachbum818@reddit
Getting beaned in dodge ball with a rubber kickball. The sound it made as it pings off the head...I can still hear it
CHead2000@reddit
Maybe sneaking out of the house to go do things your parents wouldn't approve of. Now parents can track their kids 24/7
AliMcGraw@reddit
You can choose as a parent not to track your children. I oppose the permanent surveillance state, and for that reason, I do not track my children's phones, and they know that. I also talk with them about the dangers of sharing their location with a romantic partner, because those relationships get really weird really fast, especially among teenagers.
Every now and then they will turn on location sharing like when they're going on a field trip downtown and I have to meet their bus really late, so I can see when the bus is getting close. But we use it very selectively as a tool, not as a surveillance technique.
If my kids tell me they're going to the library to work on a project, and they in fact go to meet friends at the ice cream shop, that seems like an appropriate level of teenage shenanigans that I don't need to know about or intervene in.
They literally have phones, they can call me if they need help, and I can call them if it's getting late and I don't know where they are.
p4ll4smonstrosity@reddit
my ex would lose his mind when i would turn my location off because i was sick and tired of him tracking me. i would go to a friends house “who’s house are you at? what are you doing?” id go out to the bar for a bit after work “you’re at a bar?? wow you must not care about me. are you cheating on me?????” anywhere i went he had a million questions and wild, unfounded accusations. i need space sometimes!! i dont have to do every single thing with you or tell you a play by play of my whole day!!! i get that some questions may seem harmless, but i knew exactly why he was always asking. he needed to be in control. i’d turn my location off and it would be ten times worse, but i just couldn’t deal with him helicoptering me.
the worst part was a lot of people in my life didn’t believe me. he’d tell people i was cheating constantly, which turned a lot of people on me. i never did. everyone thinks he’s a sweet, very quiet guy, but he was a nightmare to deal with as a partner. i was not the best but jesus christ. we broke up right after valentines :) 6 year learning lesson
sorry for the rant. i just hate constant location tracking. only use it for necessary reasons and don’t leave it on indefinitely
Katressl@reddit
I have location tracking with my best friend/roommate. I have a serious health condition, so it seems important for someone to be able to find me if needed. He never checks it. He would only do so if I were super late and out of contact. But I know I can trust him, and we've had years of building that trust.
angeliqu@reddit
Yeah. I’m 41 and my mom and I share each other’s location. I don’t think she even knows how to check it but she often calls me (on someone else’s phone) when she can’t find her phone to ask me where it is.
Katressl@reddit
My mom was half-blind for the last few years of her life, and smartphones were hard for her. So she used this service called GoGoGrandparent where she could call to arrange an Uber or Lyft. They offered a special tracking service so an emergency contact could keep an eye on her route. It was reassuring for both of us considering how vulnerable she was with her vision loss and living alone in the country after my dad died. But again, lots and lots of trust. I don't know if she'd have done that with my brother since he can be overbearing.
Virtual-Chocolate385@reddit
Took you 6 years to ditch him?
angeliqu@reddit
Don’t say that. She was in an abusive relationship and those are VERY hard to leave. The abuser makes it hard to leave. First, but undermining the person’s confidence, gaslighting them, etc., and then by making sure they don’t have the resources to leave, or don’t feel safe to leave.
angeliqu@reddit
That was abuse. I’m glad you got out. And thanks for telling your story for others to hear/learn from.
SunshineBLim@reddit
My ex had me have a tracking app on my phone. Then he'd call me at lunchtime when I was running errands. Or he'd ask why I took a different route home. Traffic is a thing (I worked in a big city).
After I stopped using the app with him, he installed a tracker in my car. Without my knowledge. I just happened to see a website on his computer showing my driving for the day (I was not snooping he left the website up when I was waiting for him in his office).
Needless to say, I took it out of my car and asked for a divorce. And he asked for the tracker back so he could return it and get some money back 🤦♀️. I still have it.
p4ll4smonstrosity@reddit
holy fuck that’s so bad. what my ex did was not good, but he at least had the sense to not be weird abt the store and traffic. at most in that instance he’d ask me to grab something from the store lol. i’m glad you were able to get out of that :) the controlling behavior and lack of trust is not something you should have to deal with
SunshineBLim@reddit
I missed my exit once. He asked why. I said because you were talking to me on the phone.
It has been five years. He's been married and divorced (she just packed her stuff and left while he was out of town. She and i reconnected and talked stuff over. He treated her like he treated me.). He has a new gf, she is lovely. He's just very controlling to where I lost myself. I have found myself again.
Our kids (20 and 17) are good. It was an adjustment for them, but they are awesome.
I should have left sooner, but I was a sahm and had no resources to leave.
It's all good now 😊
WoodlandHiker@reddit
I had an ex like that. It was a nightmare.
My current spouse and I only enable location sharing in certain situations where we want the other to be able to find our exact location. Ie, I might turn it on if I'm out with my woman friends and some guy is creeping me out, or he might turn it on if he's solo hiking and worried about getting lost/hurt.
Location sharing is always strictly for the comfort of the person being tracked.
Nyxelestia@reddit
NGL, one of the reasons I'm slow to try dating again is how normalized constant connection and location tracking have become. I don't want my location or my life to be constantly tracked, and I don't want to build a life with someone who expects me to constantly surveil them as an expression of love.
AliMcGraw@reddit
Fuck that guy and also get an Amish/Kosher phone with no GPS.
p4ll4smonstrosity@reddit
there’s a lot of features i really enjoy with my smartphone unfortunately, and having shitty internet would make it virtually impossible to do those things without a phone data plan :/
AliMcGraw@reddit
Turn off your GPS. Turns out it's broke. Who knew?
New_York_or_nowhere@reddit
I'm glad you broke up. That sounds like a form of emotional abuse
bosslady617@reddit
This doesn’t sound harmless. It sounds crazy. Glad he’s an ex.
Enjoy freedom!
Alienspacedolphin@reddit
I never did. They were good kids, so I never felt the need to. Kids are 19 and 21 now, both successful and in college. I told them that a well informed parent is a relaxed parent is a permissive parent, and that what I REALLY cared about was that they were safe. So as long as they touched base periodically when they were out and let me know they were ok, they never really had curfews. My son’s texts tended to be a little more informative, daughters would sometimes just be: “not dead.”
It’s possible they lied about where they were, but we have an open relationship, and they were frank about when they did things (on occasion ) they knew I didn’t approve of. Like I said though, easygoing, good kids, so maybe I would have felt the need to track if they weren’t.
cheyannepavan@reddit
We've never tracked our kids, either. We don't even have the app. If anything, I've always thought my boys (twins) were too good and could stand to break some rules here and there. I want them to have the type of adventures I had when I was young!
RelativelyRidiculous@reddit
I don't see anything wrong with tracking being available if used for the right reasons. I never actually tracked my kids on a regular basis, but did have the tracking turned on with both their phones. Emergencies happen. It may save a life.
I only ever actually looked at the tracking app on a couple of occasions. Once we were camping and hiking, it was getting dark, and one of the kids was missing. It ended up being very lucky as it enabled getting everyone safely back to camp that night.
The other time it was at my daughter's request in order to help her find her way. Google maps hadn't been updated on changes made for construction and she was left driving in an unfamiliar area due to a poorly signed detour. Having her car call me and letting me walk her through to get back on her way was safer than her trying to search directions on her phone while driving on the interstate.
AliMcGraw@reddit
Other things we object to as a family who rejects the surveillance state: We reject Elf on a Shelf because that asshole is an NSA stooge! And in our house, Santa doesn't watch you for naughty and niceness or watch you asleep and awake; Santa knows that all children are inherently good and trying really hard. Santa might be judgy about adults who are assholes, but Santa knows that all children are inherently good and trying their best, and it's okay with Santa if you mess up as long as you know you messed up. And if Santa skips some houses it's because he knows those houses are Hannukah houses and he respects the Festival of Lights, and knows those parents love their kids enough to give them good gifts.
AliMcGraw@reddit
The first phones I got them HAD NO ABILITY TO TRACK/DO GPS. I got an Amish/Kosher phone (from sunbeam wireless) and first of all they are indestructible because they're meant to have cows step on them, but also my next phone will probably be a Sunbeam Wireless flip phone because I would ALSO like to step away from the app economy!
AliMcGraw@reddit
I will also say, we made our children sign phone contracts, that laid out their rights and responsibilities for having a phone. For example, they are responsible for telling me if there is any bullying occurring in a group chat and I will do my best to keep their name out of it, but I am telling the school. I also have the right to look through their chats and phone records, but my teenagers have had phones for more than 8 years now and I've done spot checks like twice. They're good kids, they listen, they understand why it's important to behave appropriately on their phones, and I have not had to intervene. We are very upfront with them about problems with technology and things they need to be on watch for.
When we first gave them phones we talked about how they should text us when they got where they were going so we knew what they were there safely, and how they should text people they were visiting when they got home so the people they were visiting knew they got there safely. It's very much just teaching them basic phone manners like anyone would have learned in the last 50 years. And then talking to them about bullying and how bullying can occur via phone apps. They're good kids, they have good friends, it's not really an issue we've had to worry about. But we totally tell their friends that our kids had to sign phone contracts and they're all gobsmacked that we made our kids do that!
Our entire parenting thing is about scaffolding their independence so they slowly gain more power over their own lives, with us there as a fallback. We started letting them ride their bikes to school and camp and things like that when they were eight, and at first we rode with them all the way, and then we would ride with them until the last bit, and then we would ride with them just part way and let them go the second half, and then we let them go alone. They proved to us that they understood how to bike safely in our community, and as they felt more comfortable and safer riding the second half alone, we let them do that and text us when they arrived. We talked about what to do in emergencies and ow to handle them, and now they bike all over town wherever they feel like going, and we feel fine about it.
In fact, as my oldest has started driving, he has shown a remarkable ability to make good decisions, I think because he's being biking on his own since he was 8 years old, so he's very good at making risk decisions. This just isn't his first time navigating traffic, he's already been doing it for 8 years!
Also strong recommend this as a parenting strategy, because I had drive my children nowhere, they ride their bikes everywhere, it is amazing. Other parents constantly complain about having to drive their kids everywhere? I drive my kids basically nowhere.
idk_bro@reddit
You could totally make a closed loop tracking system, heck there's probably already a docker container for it. No state actors required!
angelskye1215@reddit
Dang, I wish my parents had your mindset. My parents still track me and I'm 27. Heck, my mom's mom tracks her!
Salsalover34@reddit
You’re crazy for letting that continue.
Sweet_Safe1428@reddit
You're an adult. You don't have to let her track you if you don't want.
AcademicSavings634@reddit
Life 360
SunshineBLim@reddit
My daughter (20) asked for me to join a tracking app. I'm in a group with her and my son (17).
She just wanted to know where we are. And let us know where she is.
It is helpful as my son is awful communicating his schedule (he's a high school senior, gf, lots of activities) so it's nice i can check on him. Prom was a couple weeks ago, so I could keep track of him driving (it was 30 miles away).
It was helpful a couple months ago when my daughter was in a minor fender bender in Houston. It notified me. Luckily her dad was in the area and was able to help.
mmmagic1216@reddit
Reading this entire thread makes me so grateful I was born in the 80s and went to college in the early 00s. I cannot imagine being tracked 24/7 by my parents. The very thought just creeps me out.
SunshineBLim@reddit
Same. I wouldn't have done it at all, but my daughter wants it.
I do know adults who willingly use it with their partners. I wouldn't, but they like it for traffic (I live in Houston area and traffic is awful).
Also I've heard young people like it with their friends.
I feel like it kinda shows some distrust when you feel the need to track someone, even if it is mutual. There are valid reasons (mainly traveling, commuting) but otherwise it's a no for me.
Fluffy-Start-7140@reddit
yeah tracking apps really killed that whole vibe. back then you had to actually plan your escape route and hope your parents were heavy sleepers. now they just check the app and boom busted before you even make it to your friends house. kids today are probably way more creative about getting around it though
Folksma@reddit
Freind in college who was still getting tracked by their parents at 20/21 got a burner phone, would the real phone it in the dorm, and then sneak off to the city to meet their boyfriend
Got away with it for a good few months before they slipped up and used a credit card in the city
djcurry@reddit
The thing that worries me is it’s become normalized. I know our families that share her location in. The kids spying on parents and parents spying on the kids.
Plus I know a few people that still have location shared with people that haven’t spoken with for years from college.
Auntie_Venom@reddit
A guy I used to work with, his wife tracked his every move. There was nothing he could do about it without starting WWIII. He just wanted to go to happy hour with us.
frugalsoul@reddit
And as bad as location sharing is it's just as bad that he couldn't just tell her he was going for a cold one with the boys.
jfchops3@reddit
Why be married to a person like this?
Auntie_Venom@reddit
Good question, idk if they’re still married or not.
andrewonehalf@reddit
This reminds me of visiting my sister at college in the mid-2000s and her secretly showing me her new piercings that were NOT allowed (she got her second lobes done, so scandalous). I remember asking how she got away with it and she told me she made sure to pay in cash and not on her credit card that our parents had access to.
jfchops3@reddit
The helicopter parented perfect little angel church girl from my HS went to the same college as me. Completely predictable disaster and her life is still off the rails over a decade later. The polar opposite of what her parents expected to happen happened by freshman fall semester midterms
I don't understand what these people think they're accomplishing treating even older teenagers like this but especially adult children
chirop1@reddit
My wife would wake up in the middle of the night while our daughter was away at school and be pissed that she was in a town 30 minutes away when she had a test the next day. I would just groggily remind her we did the same and our parents never knew.
gogozrx@reddit
ya know, if you don't take your phone with you, they can't track it.
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
There's work around for that now. I have a paranoid coworker who makes their child wear a nonremovable angelsense bracelet. It's very unsettling.
Za_Lords_Guard_01@reddit
There's ways around that too without removing the bracelet.
CaedustheBaedus@reddit
Like cutting off the limb?
Za_Lords_Guard_01@reddit
Or, you know, just wrap it in multiple layers of aluminum foil.
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
Knowing my coworker, the singal dropping for an extended period of time would not go over well. She'd end up sending the poor girl to live in boarding school or some other equally ridiculous "solution."
CaedustheBaedus@reddit
Oh boy, a boarding school could have the completley opposite effect whether it's one of those super strict slap people's hands with rulers boarding school or just a typical boarding school for the rich (not implying that your coworker is)
Fats_Tetromino@reddit
Lol I went to a supposedly strict boarding school and ended up smoking like a chimney starting in 8th grade. If you get good grades in these places (and the classes aren't any harder than public school) they don't give a shit what you do
theshortlady@reddit
In a boarding school, there are a lot fewer adults trying to keep track of a lot more kids.
Fats_Tetromino@reddit
Yup, which means that the kids are largely free to fuck around as much as they want as long as they don't make the school look bad.
Reagalan@reddit
Given the horror stories of the "Troubled Teen" industry, I'd say your experience was a dodged bullet.
molotovzav@reddit
Knowing the type of coworker it is it wouldn't actually be a real boarding school. It'd be one of those camps where they torture kids for money and then have them fake call their parents and say everything is fine.
redwolf1219@reddit
I am...concerned for that child when she moves out of your coworkers house.
Kinetic_Silverwolf@reddit
Your coworker sounds abusive. That poor kid.
Healthy_Blueberry_59@reddit
It is abusive. I wonder if these parents would be ok with the kid's boyfriend/girlfriend/sweetie putting tracking on them. This is one of the most harmful things parents do to kids.
IMakeOkVideosOk@reddit
Honestly the boarding school would be the best option. Kid could be free of their overbearing parent and would be able to sneak around like the old days
CaedustheBaedus@reddit
Pffft, kids these days are so weak. Back in my day we'd have had the tourniquet and hatchet ready
Tygrkatt@reddit
I mean, at least give the acetylene torch a try first...
Throwaway-ish123a@reddit
How long is it until someone does an implant? Y'all know it's coming...
nauticalfiesta@reddit
Said coworker will probably wonder why her adult children won’t talk to her
boldjoy0050@reddit
What is the deal with helicopter parenting in this country?
When my boomer parents grew up, they were allowed to go just about anywhere alone. And this was during the 70s when crime was way worse than it is today.
ElleM848645@reddit
Kidnappings and serial killers were more prevalent in the 70s and early 80s. Things are much safer now due to technology. My mom was pretty overprotective for the 90s but nothing like parents now. I think of things I did or my parents let me do (ie. go on a boat with a friends family when I was 8, no phones, just on the water all day- bringing me back home before dinner). And I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with that. However, some parents don’t drop off at birthday parties at 8-10 years old.
oh_such_rhetoric@reddit
That’s DEEPLY unsettling.
We should just use microchips like pets.
estelle2839@reddit
Pet microchips aren’t a tracking device. It’s more like an ID.
oh_such_rhetoric@reddit
Yeah I know. But we can do it, we have the technology.
(I’m joking.)
Candid-Security2881@reddit
I have a coworker who tracks her son on his phone and the poor kid is in college. I tried to gently tell her she needed to stop and it's not healthy. She told me that once my daughter gets older that I would understand. Uh no thank you. I am hoping my parenting to be street smart along with being independent will guide her to make good decisions for the most part. I am allowing her to make those life lesson mistakes now while the stakes are low. Learn now, then she can see the b.s. a mile away later. I am there as a guide.
Beginning-Damage-555@reddit
That’s creepy as crap and I was the child who was kept on a leash until I was three in busy urban areas. My mom had a lot of kids and didn’t want us lost or run over by cars. Not even mad. It made sense. This is next level.
Clean-Fisherman-4601@reddit
I always thought leashes for children were horrible, until I had 3 sons in 4 1/2 years.
molotovzav@reddit
Leashes tbh are smart. Toddlers run, and if you aren't keeping your hands on them, they will just run off and bump into people and God knows what else. My parents leashed me until I was three also. I'm also an adult with spatial/social awareness which 90% of people are not. If people spent more time caring their kids could walk through a crowded event without bumping into people more and less about tracking them, that would be nice. I haven't seen a group of kids single file on a sidewalk since 2012. Parents should care more about making kids who are aware of their surroundings and less about whether or not they'll smoke weed once.
Beginning-Damage-555@reddit
I never understand why people are anti leash especially since they make the cute backpack leashes now. I was leashed by the arm to a stroller. But my family also didn’t have a car and we were walking a ton of high traffic areas. I don’t remember having problems with it. Then again my parents also had a strong hands behind the back policy until we were like ten if we went into a shop where things were breakable
minicpst@reddit
I don’t know what an anglesense bracelet is (I’ll google it in a moment), but does this child have a medical condition that would make that necessary?
Even the kids I know who do (like type one diabetics) have parents who have access to the pump to get alerts, but their child lives independently and I’m sure could change who gets access at this point (the “child” is nearly 24).
Seeggul@reddit
Parents treating their kids like they're felons on house arrest will surely go over well in ten years
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
Your coworker is gonna be wondering in a few decades why her kid doesn't come to see her in her nursing home...
Learningstuff247@reddit
Thats psychotic. Like if theyre under 10 years old fine. But as a teenager?
artemisinagayway@reddit
How is it non-removable?
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
It has a metal wristband that can only be moved with a key or by cutting it off. My coworker, her mother, has the key on her person. She was talking about it to the rest of us like it's a good idea and we should all put trackers on our kids too.
artemisinagayway@reddit
Damn, that’s abusive.
djcurry@reddit
What age are they
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
In high school. Maybe 15.
djcurry@reddit
Hmm I would say that’s around when it should be removed . That’s when they should be developing some independence and around when they start wanting privacy.
Tracking the phone I am more ok with if the parents can be responsible and use it only when needed. But that’s hard to do.
ImmediateAd7069@reddit
I suspect this isn't the type of parent interested in encouraging that sort of independent growth. Their kid is going to have a rough transition later in life
NoseDesperate6952@reddit
Sounds like me in the 70s and 80s🤦🏻♀️ it was horrible
MyUsername2459@reddit
I'm hoping you're making that up, because that is seriously screwed up.
Unless your kid has a serious disciplinary record, putting them on an ankle monitor is absurdly inappropriate.
my_chaffed_legs@reddit
dude i thought you were joking and referencing that black mirror episode called arkangel but then i looked it up and it’s real !! wtf. it says it’s intended for people with autism or dementia preventing elopement which i guess is good? but for just an over paranoid parent for a average child is a little crazy
Baroque_Hologram@reddit
Isn’t that the plot of a Black Mirror episode?
YourGuyK@reddit
Yeah, but the episode was inspired by stuff like this, not the other way around.
eugenesbluegenes@reddit
Don't... take... my phone? I don't understand....
spurcap29@reddit
You must not be a kid in 2025.
If you could do the most fun thing in the world but couldnt post about it on the internet... its like it never happened.
Scary_Extent4967@reddit
Bro.. it's 2026 now.
spurcap29@reddit
ugh. all those letters I wrote over the past 5 months... rip.
gogozrx@reddit
I'm grateful to have been doing my _really_ stupid stuff before the internet existed.
ClermontPorter20588@reddit
I did my stupid stuff before video cameras.
bbpoizon@reddit
There are also geo-spoofing apps you can use to simulate a different location
J_Robert_Matthewson@reddit
But then how could they document all the things they're not supposed to be doing on social media?
LtKavaleriya@reddit
That and every house having a camera. No more ding dong ditch or other (relatively) harmless shenanigans without a million Karens posting on the local Facebook page
HairyHorseKnuckles@reddit
My son was a teenager when those first became a thing. One day he said he was going for a walk. I checked his location a little bit later and he was halfway across town doing thirty miles an hour. When he got home i asked where he went and he said he went for a walk. I told him i knew he was lying bc he was in a car doing 30 mph. He got defensive and swore up and down he decided to go for a run. And to this day 15 years later and him a grown ass adult still won’t admit it and sticks with the story that he can run 30mph
David_bowman_starman@reddit
I wonder why they feel the need to hide their life from you…..
HairyHorseKnuckles@reddit
Probably bc your uncle put his Willy in your butt
HairyHorseKnuckles@reddit
Bc he was on drugs
304libco@reddit
Heck I’m an adult and my sister made me put it on my phone and sometimes I’m at a bar and I’ll be getting these texts like what are you doing? Where are you at? LOL.
LupercaniusAB@reddit
“Made you”?
How does that work?
304libco@reddit
She told me I had to do it, so I did. She’s our matriarch. L O L.
Quartia@reddit
The fact that they have to realize you're not where you should be before they even try to track you, though, hasn't changed.
xxrainmanx@reddit
My kids can totally try this. They just have to attempt to go out an upstairs windows since all the downstairs ones have alarms on them.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
LMFAO.
Oh you. Challenge accepted. I was quite good at it.
xxrainmanx@reddit
Like I said it's an option, well it is for one of the rooms. The rest have 30 foot drops from their windows. Only is only about 15ft from the roof. That's the most viable, but they'll show up on multiple cameras.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
So you have imprisoned your children.
Not a parent but a jailor.
xxrainmanx@reddit
Sure, I've imprisoned my 6yr old and my 18 month old. I mean if they got out without my knowledge you all would be yelling that I neglected my children, but hey, it's considered imprisonment for keeping my home secure and relatively safe. Next you're going to tell me teens should be able to be out all night, but if they do anything wrong you expect parents to be liable.
Didn't realize securing doors and windows was considered imprisonment by people. Do you keep your doors unlocked all day and night? Do you have a ring camera or an alarm? Because that's all I have, but yep, it's imprisonment.
LupercaniusAB@reddit
We are talking about teenagers, Rain Man.
Time for Walker.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
You aren't even in a place to deal with this. Stop talking you ass.
xxrainmanx@reddit
Oh did i hurt your small feelings with basic logic? Sorry you can't handle constructive reasoning.
David_bowman_starman@reddit
How would you have felt if your parents treated you like this when you were a kid?
xxrainmanx@reddit
Like what? Having alarms so they knew is someone broke into our house? Or one that watches for deliveries so our Amazon packages don't get stolen? No I wouldn't have an issue with it and most don't. We have a ring camera and it catches part of the front of the house, we also have one that watches the driveway. The windows in question happens to be above the garage and would be visible if someone jumped down from that window.
Folksma@reddit
My cousin used to shimmy down the chimney form the 3rd floor nearly every
His older siblings, who used to do the same thing, tried to tell their mom and she couldn't fathom it
MrHappy4Life@reddit
Yeah, putting it in Airplane mode is all that’s needed.
Joel_feila@reddit
One thing i have heard teens do
Order a burner phone. Easy to to because who here doesn't have an Amazon account with card already saved and a web browser that remembers your log in for you. Then just get add it to the family plan, or cheap plan if you have a job. Yes some parents won't check theor phone went by 10 15 bucks a month.
Artistic_Cheetah_724@reddit
growing up I could sneak out, sneak people in, literally anything when my parents were asleep (horrible in my part wtf was I thinking lol) but now I can't even walk into my own house without the alarm beeping and having 10 seconds to turn it off.
My child (1) will be tracked with phone and home alarm system. The world is too scary now when I look at it to not have these things in place.
David_bowman_starman@reddit
Then turn off the alarm so it doesn’t go off when you walk in???????
Artistic_Cheetah_724@reddit
Well that's what i obviously do when i get into my house. I open the door and turn it off
Optimal-Age5397@reddit
Yup. I got away with way way more than I should have when I was younger. My kids are still small but shit I'd plant a tracking device in their head if I could. I get so anxious about them.
iamconfusedagain@reddit
Your poor children.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Get a therapist and stop ruining their lives because you can't get yours together.
Eastern-Barber-3551@reddit
You know crime has been trending downward for 35 years now? The world might be scarier than it was in your childhood, but it's less dangerous
JellyfishFit3871@reddit
Thank you for saying this.
I have teenagers and young adult children, and I have to remind myself that they're safer by every metric than I was. Their vehicles are safer, crime rates are lower, medical care is more advanced, et cetera.
But I'm still tracking them as long as I pay for the phone
alkatori@reddit
No evidence in the world will ever convince them that their subjective beliefs are incorrect.
I've had this argument too many times.
SkiingAway@reddit
The world is a far safer place than when you were growing up by virtually every conceivable measure.
I'd suggest you get some therapy before you have children.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
The world is less scary now.
Way to fall for the propoganda.
You/your significant other are the most likely ones to hurt/steal them.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Yeah wait until they're a mouthy teen and you want them to shut the fk up and get away from you.
UCFCO2001@reddit
Shoot, my cameras will go off if they sense a human walking around the outside of the house after certain hours. I'll know as they're sneaking out and will be able to wait for them at the front of the house as they come out.
Fun-Dragonfly-4166@reddit
as a parent now
JustMyTypo@reddit
If you’ve got an iPhone and an iPad, you can choose which one is “your location” and it doesn’t show up any differently for others. At least that’s how it works with the built in “Find My” app.
Still_Want_Mo@reddit
They just leave their phones.
Casus125@reddit
Is it really that creative to just leave your phone behind?
Seems like the ultimate move.
Eh, who am I kidding, those poor kids probably can't comprehend existence without a phone.
Guachole@reddit
If you have kids with tracking apps on their phone and think theyre too dumb to figure out they can leave their phone at home..... I got bad news for ya lol. Kids are still sneaky little bastards
chirop1@reddit
But they also go through physical withdrawal symptoms without their phones for an extended period of time. Tough times all around.
Aggressive-Emu5358@reddit
No less than adults who have become so accustomed to the same
mylocker15@reddit
If I was a kid today i would get a secret burner phone for those situations.
Ocean-of-Mirrors@reddit
Great example for how surveillance actually makes someone LESS safe.
For some kids, sneaking out is inevitable. You want them to have a phone when they do.
BirdsEverywhere-777@reddit
I was thinking about this…or the I’m staying at Sally’s, and Sally tells her parents that she’s going to Jenny’s, and Jenny tells her parents that she is staying at my house. Then we all go to a party instead.
beebeesy@reddit
A lot of my college kids are tracked by their parents. However, they also started getting burner phones to take with them and leave their actual phones in the dorms. There is always a way around it lol.
Humble-Reaction1492@reddit
I'm sorry, but I do not see how tracking college kids is a positive thing. I dunno... it just feels like the independence and trust I got in college and thereafter in medical school helped me to become an reponsible individual. OBVIOUSLY, I was easy to reach and open to hearing from my parents in the same metro area, but tracking 24/7 makes it hard for kids to became independent adults. They can be help and present for the family without people breathing down their neck.... or they will never learn to make decisions for themselves.
beebeesy@reddit
It is not positive nor is it healthy. It is a serious problem right now. The cord can't be cut and the poor kids get no independence. I had one parent who monitored when her son was in his dorm room every night and had to get permission to stay in the library after 6pm. Another asked to MOVE INTO THE DORM for 3 weeks to get her baby settled. It is really, REALLY bad. These kids have less independence than I did as a middle schooler.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit
I remember I got in trouble once I was on my own in college a few times, but it was never bad enough to have permanent repercussions, and I learned my lessons.
Making mistakes in a somewhat controlled environment is how you develop good judgement.
meowmix778@reddit
My oldest daughter has a friend who's mother has an app on a phone for her that literally tracks her exact location at all times.
silverokapi@reddit
I think its weird you can only think of one kid that has that. Most of my coworkers track their kids relentlessly
meowmix778@reddit
They're in middle school, so she's at the age where a good % of her friends don't have phones.
This is outing me as a bad dad but a lot of her friends are fucking annoying or just rude and I don't want her hanging out with them so I only let 2 of them spend the night at our house.
chirop1@reddit
What kids do you know that don't have a phone?
I fought it with my daughter when she said all the kids had phones... and I started asking around and learned that they really did.
So when my son hit middle school 7 years later, it was just a given that he would have one.
meowmix778@reddit
At this point, it's the minority of my daughter's class. But last year it was about 50-50.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
Geez when my kids were in middle school every kid had a phone.
meowmix778@reddit
In fifth grade it was maybe like 30% of the kids had phones, this year the number is steadily rising. I only know this because my daughter has been providing me detailed lists of who has phones for a pretty decent chunk of time now.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
I always thought middle school started at 6th grade
SkiingAway@reddit
As generic stereotype yes, but in practice it varies a good bit based on practical matters like school facility sizes and the like.
Mine was K-3, 4-8, 9-12. Elementary school property was space-constrained, middle school property wasn't (high school was regional), so when enrollment went up they built an addition and moved grades 4-5 to the middle school.
meowmix778@reddit
I'm pretty sure it is. I was just remarking at how more kids are getting phones now vs last year.
notonrexmanningday@reddit
Yeah, we gave our 6 and 8 year olds smart watches for Christmas. They're disabled during school hours, but we can always track them.
MotherOf4Jedi1Sith@reddit
My kids talked me into getting one of those apps because my oldest sonnis a truck driver and I could see where he was travelling. So I download it and go about my merry way. I work in a hospital and I was out of my office going to the cafeteria for lunch when I get a call from said son. He asked if I quit my job or had gotten fired. I asked why? And he said it was because I left my circle and he gets a notification whenever that happens. WTF?!?! Lmao! My dang kid was tracking me!!! 😒 🤣🤣🤣 I guess it goes both ways!
Nyxelestia@reddit
I'm obviously an Internet stranger who doesn't know your whole life. But I do want to point out that while understandably, most people talk about toxicity from parents to children or between partners, it can also come from children and be directed at parents. You are right that, "I guess it goes both ways!" -- but the "it" in question here is controlling behavior that shouldn't be tolerated between people who are supposed to love and support each other. Even if you really, truly don't mind for your own sake, you should probably still think about making sure your son doesn't get so accustomed to this level of constant access that he carries that expectation into a relationship with someone else in the future.
MotherOf4Jedi1Sith@reddit
Thank you for your concern, internet stranger, and yeah I agree with you about controlling behavior. But this child of mine isn't the controlling type, just has a mother hen complex and takes comfort in knowing all is well in his world.
redwolf1219@reddit
I set up circles to tell me when my parents are going to Mexican restaurants without me.
MotherOf4Jedi1Sith@reddit
Well, that's important information to know!
GOTaSMALL1@reddit
Tracks her phone’s location.
Unless she had her kid microchipped or something.
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
I know someone who has a non-removable angelsense bracelet on their kid. It's unsettling.
jfchops3@reddit
I would have cut that off and accepted the consequences up to and including being kicked out of their house and disowned if mine tried that on me past high school graduation (situation's a bit murky between age 18 and then). And I'd be shocked to find out there's a single kid in America involuntarily subjected to that that doesn't resent their parents for life
HeyItsLers@reddit
Pretty sure that was an episode of black mirror
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
It's this thing but in rose gold metal instead of silicone.
Wild_Fee_6147@reddit
It’s giving ankle monitor vibes
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
Actually, it's on her wrist like a watch, so totally not an ankle monitor. Though it does send her a notification whenever her daughter is anywhere that isn't home or school... like an ankle monitor.
Wild_Fee_6147@reddit
😂
alkatori@reddit
Not just vibes
machagogo@reddit
Because every knows kidnappers have no access to cutting technology
GOTaSMALL1@reddit
I try not to judge as somebody that chose not to have kids…
But holy shit!
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Please judge them. This is lunacy.
meowmix778@reddit
Big time.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
I'd cut that fucker off and claim it was caught on something and it was the only way of freeing myself
meowmix778@reddit
I'd assume most people who wear one of those won't be spending too much time at home once they turn 18
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
Or before.
meowmix778@reddit
That's wild. This is literally just a house arrest.
meowmix778@reddit
It's hard for me not to shout this type of thing down reflexively.
But here's something to consider. (I assume) when you were a child, you just went outside without smartphones. You'd hop on a bike and fuck off for the day and come home. In an era with a higher crime rate.
Throwawaydontgoaway8@reddit
Every phone for every person has this? Weird way to word it
meowmix778@reddit
That's not true. They make apps that are dedicated to track your children.
Throwawaydontgoaway8@reddit
Correct. And every iPhone comes with find my phone integrated with it internally for any phone part of the same cell phone plan to automatically be able to have geo location. I guess I don’t know about android but I don’t see why they wouldn’t have the exact same system. You weirded it weirdly. Every phone a kid has automatically comes with tracking abilities
Tygrkatt@reddit
Yeah Android has a Find My Phone thing. Tbh I never thought about using it to track my kids, I use it to find my phone when I forget where I put it down.
meowmix778@reddit
Google Life360 or FindMyKid.
Throwawaydontgoaway8@reddit
Right. Say your daughter’s friends mom has it is weird. You have it too if they have a phone. I don’t have to Google anything I already know how it works, I don’t think you do lol
meowmix778@reddit
You're trying to have a conversation about the native tracking capabilities a phone has to find a lost device.
I'm not dumb. I get what you're saying.
I am telling you, there are extremely popular apps that track your children and tells the person on the other end things like how fast they're going, if they're on foot or in a car, if they're past a geo fence, if your child isn't responding to a call or text you can make it produce a loud ringing noise that can't be silenced until the parent is contacted, they make features to remotely lock out the phone, you can just turn on the mic and listen to what the child is doing, it gives the kid a dedicated panic button.
That is EXTREMELY different than what you're describing.
baalroo@reddit
I, my wife, and our 3 kids all have this app and can all track each other's location. It's incredibly convenient.
meowmix778@reddit
If you don't mind me asking, how is that convenient? That just feels like a lack of trust, especially for you and your partner.
baalroo@reddit
I trust my partner to not lord over where I'm going or what I'm doing, but it's very useful if I text her "heading home, pick you up when I get there" (for example) we don't have to text back and forth to figure out how long that'll be. She can just check the app, see my ETA, and then come outside to get in the car when I'm driving down our street.
If my kids need directions to where my wife and I are, they can just pull up our location in the app and click "get directions." If my kid needs me to come pick her up from a friend's house, she can just ask me to come get her without needing to get an address. Etc etc.
meowmix778@reddit
I can hear the use cases for the navigation pieces, it is annoying to find other kid's houses for sleepovers sometimes. I wasn't trying to take a swipe at you with the trust part, I just genuinely couldn't imagine.
It falls into the same genre as ring cameras to me, where you're ceding privacy to a surveillance technology a bit easier than you should.
If it's working for you, that's great.
baalroo@reddit
I'm an IT guy, and so is my wife, so we're pretty comfortable in our understanding and handling of tech in our homes.
When I was a kid, I was expected to update my mother about where I was, and if she was suspicious she would simply drive to where I said I was at and knock on the door. These days I can just open the app and verify my kid is being truthful when something feels shady.
We don't actively track where they are or "spot check" them, unless we have good reason to believe we should, and then doing so in those cases is way less intrusive or embarrassing than what we grew up with.
At this point, my youngest is 17 and my oldest is about to turn 20. They all live at home with us and the two oldest are free to delete the app from their phones if they'd like, but they do not because it's convenient.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
You dont track your daughter's location? I dont know of a any parent that doesn't. It doesnt come down to a trust issue for us but more of a will they be home for a meal, or can I reach out to them to give me a hand or should I wait up for them.
meowmix778@reddit
I think there is a deep sense of paranoia that's been installed into parents. When I was growing up, crime was objectively worse. The snatch and grab genre of crime is so rare that it becomes front page news for WEEKS when it happens. In fact, I think giving your children access to the internet early on puts them at risk of that sort of thing happening MORE FREQUENTLY. How often is it "some kid is missing , believed to have run away with a stranger".
My daughter has a basic feature flip phone. She can call for help if she needs. She goes to friends houses and around the neighborhood and knows to check with us at regular intervals.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Its all about growing up with Stranger Danger. Kids before the 90s didn't have that.
meowmix778@reddit
I grew up in the 90s and my parents would leave us home alone all the time. They'd have us walk to the grocery store to get shit for them. They had my brother watch us when he was a kid himself. And so on.
Donald_J_Duck65@reddit
It doesn't need to be installed. Both Apple and Android have it built in.
meowmix778@reddit
Two things.
1- I said that the sense of paranoia is installed into people.
2- No. It isn't. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but children tracking apps are different than "find my phone" features and seeing your phone on a map. You're objectively incorrect and not even responding to what I said.
idekbruno@reddit
This comes standard on iPhones, it’s the same app used to find AirTags
meowmix778@reddit
No it's a dedicated subscription service that the family uses. I mean the tech is similar. It's just tracking.
redcoral-s@reddit
Life360? It's a very popular app. In high school I made my mom download it after she got completely lost trying to pick me up from an event at another school
meowmix778@reddit
I've heard of that one. The family uses an app called FindMyKid which as I understand it is the Pepsi to Life360's Coke.
Speaking as someone who was a bastard kid with strict parents, all that kind of thing really does is teaches the idea that you can't trust your parents and you need to learn how to get sneakier.
raknor88@reddit
Only if the kids take their phones with them. But their phones seem to be surgically fused with their hands. So that it highly unlikely. And any parent that doesn't helicopter like that, the kids don't need to sneak out anyway.
Pointe97@reddit
Between the tracking apps and WiFi-based security cameras, it’s basically impossible for kids to sneak out.
It used to be that the only kids that had to worry about it were the ones with the in-home security systems.
That “_____ Door open” announcement would rat on you so fast!
GotchUrarse@reddit
Somewhere a kid is thinking 'challenge accepted'.
AvailableAd6071@reddit
That would have been me.
frylock350@reddit
Plus the ring camera will see them
Smolmanth@reddit
Rip to sneaking out with 4 other kids just to walk to a closed fast food place and back. Kids don’t know what they’re missing.
seajayacas@reddit
Kids if they had half a brain would leave their phone home if going somewhere they didn't want their parents to know about.
CHead2000@reddit
As someone who was a teenager when smartphones had already become ubiquitous, I have no idea how people in the past would meet up with friends.
How do you know how to get where you're going without GPS? Did everyone have maps in their gloveboxes that they would study before going on their way? What if a road was closed, or traffic patterns changed, or you were going to an unfamiliar area?
How would people know exactly where to meet at a location? What if your friend is running late? Do you continue without them, or wait for them?
I hate smartphones because they've become so commonplace that life without their minute conveniences seems impossible.
ElleM848645@reddit
If you lived in the area forever you knew where to go. You didn’t need GPS or maps. People absolutely had maps in their car though. I remember my sister and I looking at my parents road map of all 50 states and debating whether Kansas or Nebraska was the most boring state based on the roads (we were on the east coast, so never close to Kansas or Nebraska). Early 2000s you’d print out directions from Mapquest.
Reagalan@reddit
"Were all gonna meet here. "The bus" leaves at this time. Be there or be square."
It is literally that simple.
seajayacas@reddit
IMO they could figure out how to do it without a phone in their hand if they had half a brain.
TheMcWhopper@reddit
And kids can spoof their location 24/7
Boopa0011@reddit
I reflect on how much sneaking around I did when I was a teenager (in the early 2000s) and it's astounding to me to imagine growing up in a world where my mom is actively tracking my location all the time. Both imagining my mom being driven by "societal expectations" to do this kind of crap, and imagining myself being driven by "societal expectations" to always have my phone on me.
Suspicious-Sorbet-32@reddit
People treat me like I'm insane when I say I don't want to track my kids. I want them to have a life and feel freedom
Learningstuff247@reddit
Just leave the phone behind
PineappleCharacter15@reddit
That was likely more than 20 years ago. We've had cell phones for over 20 years.
I was sneaking out of the house to go do things back in the late sixties early seventies.
rawbface@reddit
Phones did not have internal GPS in 2006. Even the first iPhone in 2007 did not have GPS capability.
In 2006, a GPS meant you had a clunky, standalone device sitting on your dashboard, plugged into your cigarette lighter.
Auntie_Venom@reddit
I was in the 1990s… Cell phones couldn’t be tracked the way they are now. And it was still before cell phones were as common.
TarHeeledTexan@reddit
Parents -can- track their kids. My wife and I patently do not have tracking apps on our kids’ devices. We trust them and communicate with them just enough to know where they are going to be and with whom. They need to learn how to operate in the world as independent people.
kc_cyclone@reddit
All the TPing and other shenanigans from middle school would be ruined now with Rings on every house. Not to mention hosting a party or sneaking a girlfriend in or out. I used my parents being divorced to my advantage plenty of times. Dad's out of town for the weekend, "mom, I'm staying at (insert friends) tonight." When in reality I was having my girlfriend stay with me at my dad's or hosting a party.
Beneficial-Band-3074@reddit
Actually they’re doing this still, they just leave the phones behind. My boss came in distraught the other day because her teenage son got hit by a car at 2 am. That’s how she found out he was sneaking out every night with no phone !
Artistic-Fish1125@reddit
My husband is British and thought the whole teenagers sneaking through windows with a ladder was a movie trope. Definitely something that doesn't happen much these days.
ThePickleConnoisseur@reddit
Parents are also stricter I feel
DOMSdeluise@reddit
it's wild to me that parents do this. I can't imagine installing tracking software on my kids phones and monitoring their location. I mean they are way too young to have phones right now anyway but sheesh, kids deserve privacy.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
I don’t know what changed so quickly. I was in HS only 12 years ago and even then everyone’s parents were like “where are you going? Be safe and call if you need anything” and that was that lol
nope-its@reddit
My students (16-18) would leave their phones at home and leave anyway to the specified meetup spot. You don’t have to have your phone with you.
Glenn_Maffews@reddit
Also parents are like, dumb.
Both_Painter_9186@reddit
Buy a burner phone, leave the one your parents got you at home when you do hood rat shit. Keep the burner off your home wifi so they never know you have it.
AuggieNorth@reddit
20 years before that there was no need to sneak out since we never had a curfew anyway, and they didn't really know or care where we were going since we went out so often they stopped asking.
MeanderFlanders@reddit
Parking in an obscure spot to make our or have sex
Sneaking off to party in the next city over when you’re not supposed to leave town (phones tell on you)
Dance with abandon. Shy kids are worried about phone cameras and shaming.
matt_chowder@reddit
When I was a junior and senior, my gf at the time and I had a lot of different make out spots
GotchUrarse@reddit
Same here. The late 80's/early 90's was such a fun time to grow up in.
kc_cyclone@reddit
This happened in the 2000s too, added bonus we got grainy nudes on our flip phones
noveltymoocher@reddit
made it to the 2010s too but the spots were getting harder and harder to find
angeliqu@reddit
The parking lot I used in the 2000s is still a great spot for that purpose today.
kc_cyclone@reddit
I lived in a rural area of a city outside of Omaha (on the Iowa side), think Bob Seger "on a lonely lonesome highway East of Omaha." Plenty of gravel roads and secluded spots that still exist today.
badash2004@reddit
As someone who was a junior/ senior after covid, so did I. It hasn't totally died
ErikRogers@reddit
It's a lot more fun if you both have the same makeout spots.
idekbruno@reddit
r/ihavesex
PikaPonderosa@reddit
No, it was only kisses at the makeout spot.
oldladylikesflowers@reddit
I have never liked parties, but oh my gosh my boyfriend and I found every obscure parking spot in the county.
rhino369@reddit
Why can’t you fuck in an obscure spot?
chirop1@reddit
Because you have Life360 on your phone and your mom will ask you why you were parked on the access road next to the power station for five minutes.
(Well... it took us four to get naked...)
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
"I was fucking my girlfriend."
Why would any parents think this is a good idea? It's akin to taking the door off your teenagers room.
thegreatpotatogod@reddit
Some parents do that. And not only for teenagers.
Realistic_Dog_5506@reddit
Eh i had that back in high school and still did that like every other day
Brief-Percentage-193@reddit
I mean life 360 was a thing when I was a teenager a few years ago and that didn't stop me and my gf at the time
december151791@reddit
That's not a thing anymore? Hell I was doing that in my early 20s as recently as a few years ago.
MarkNutt25@reddit
Wait. So where are kids going to make out and have sex then? Unless you're suggesting that hormone-riddled teens aren't having sex anymore??
MeanderFlanders@reddit
Most are not
jigokubi@reddit
That would make me want it more, not less...
FLOHTX@reddit
Yeah but kids aren't social anymore from what I can tell. They just jerk it instead of finding a real girl.
AdDense7020@reddit
My 17 year old does it at his gf’s parents house because they’re never home.
Irritable_Curmudgeon@reddit
Then: Dance like no one is watching
Now: Everyone is recording and posting it online.
stabbingrabbit@reddit
And making fun of you when doing it
Tia_is_Short@reddit
Definitely not. I can’t go to my local Amtrak station without seeing hordes of people fucking their cars lol
ImmediateAd7069@reddit
We didn't bring our phones with us back in the day. Kids can still do the same if they're determined.
MediumStrange@reddit
The obscure spot thing definitely still happens
Riker_Omega_Three@reddit
Summer Camp
Like full on, in the woods, gone for a month or longer, no contact with your family except writing letters summer camp
Bawstahn123@reddit
>Summer Camp
>Like full on, in the woods, gone for a month or longer, no contact with your family except writing letters summer camp
My opinion is flavored by the fact that I was in Scouting, and therefore attended/worked at Scout Summer Camp, but part of the issue is that it was so fucking expensive, even over a decade ago.
It would cost something like close to $500 just to send a single kid to Scout camp for a week
treycook@reddit
Am I wrong for thinking that's pretty cheap childcare for the summer, not to mention room and board?
NickLidstrom@reddit
Is $4 000 over two months really considered cheap for childcare?
angeliqu@reddit
Not cheap. But on par. Cheapest camps around me are $350/ week and that’s 9-4, not overnight. Camps with extended car that run 8-530 are usually more like $450. Sleep away camps are way more expensive.
ljb2x@reddit
Yes, but this isn't normal 8-5 childcare. This is 24/7 care, 3 meals, snacks, projects, entertainment, room, and a large land area plus lots of staff more akin to an all inclusive week long vacation/resort.
NickLidstrom@reddit
That's fair, thanks, didn't think of it like that. Where I'm from childcare costs are capped quite low comparatively (equivalent of 160$ a month for the first kid, 106$ for the second, 53% for third, free after that) so out of context the price seemed extreme.
ljb2x@reddit
Definitely extreme for daycare, but this was speaking more to week long overnight camps. Our "regular" childcare averages about $10kUSD/year. We also have no regulation on capping costs so some will be more expensive and some less.
jbenze@reddit
I remember scout camp being like $200 a week back in the 80s, it has to be way over $500 now.
DankBlunderwood@reddit
Yeah, but that's pretty cheap as vacations go. Hotel rooms vary wildly, but clean rooms for under $150/night are getting harder to find. And that's just a room. A scout trip comes with room, board, staff, programming, etc.
ichwilldoener@reddit
Yeah I think it was $800 a week at the camp I went to. Mom couldn‘t afford it, but grandparents would gift my brother and I week each from shes 10-15. I LOOVED it. Wish it had been more accessible and affordable
namrock23@reddit
That's cheap for a sleep away camp here in California.... Sadly
herehaveaname2@reddit
That must range wildly by area - Scout camp for my kid for a week was just over $300. The local outdoors camp (non-scout related) is $1,500.
ElleM848645@reddit
Thats like the price of daycamp. Overnight camp is even more.
Tooch10@reddit
I went to scout camp for a week a couple times as well as a couple friends but I didn't know anyone that did an out-of-the-movies full summer camp. There was that odd kid or two that spent the summer at scout camp though, must have been awkward being placed with random troops
JalapenoCornSalad@reddit
Yeah. I was about to say it’s just crazy expensive.
syfari@reddit
I can’t imagine how much it’d cost to send a kid to sleep away camp for a month straight these days.
username-generica@reddit
Summer camp for that long was almost unheard of when I was a kid during the 80s. My younger son goes for 2 weeks which is rare here. He will go for a month for the first time next year because he will be a counselor in training.
Riker_Omega_Three@reddit
Yeah mine was through a Church organization...so maybe that is why it was so long
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
That still exists. I don't think it was ever as popular as the movies make it out to seem.
Nyxelestia@reddit
I think it was always pretty popular among financially comfortable families...it's just that the number of families that are financially comfortable is shrinking quite a bit.
captrb@reddit
If you weren’t rich or religious, it wasn’t a thing. If you don’t think you were either, you were relatively wealthy.
Thin_Cable4155@reddit
It has been and always will be popular with rich people.
weinthenolababy@reddit
Correct! I always wanted to go to summer camp, but my family could never afford it. The only people I knew who went to summer camp were rich.
Accomplished-Door5@reddit
I went to 4H camp which was like a week and my mom really made sure we wanted to go because she said it was super expensive. I can’t imagine how bad weeks would’ve been.
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
It’s very regional. Not as common in the south.
Riker_Omega_Three@reddit
It was super popular in the 80's
Best summer of my life was 1991 at a 6 week summer camp.
No parents, no school, just adventure, friends, bonfires, camping, fishing, prank wars, swimming, capture the flag, flashlight tag, trying to scare the other cabins into thinking the woods were haunted. No technology other than a single radio.
It was glorious
LadyMRedd@reddit
Can confirm. Went to summer camp in the 80s. Loved it so much. Never wanted to come home. I was convinced I'd be a camp counselor when I was old enough, but then realized they didn't make enough money for me to save for what I needed. I still remember a lot of the songs we sung
brumac44@reddit
I grew up at a summer camp and worked there until I was 17. The kids wanted to go home for the first half of their stay, then didn't want to leave for the last half.
mlkk22@reddit
Yup. Everything is expensive for camps so they have to charge a bigger fee that really only means wealthier families can send kids to sleep away camp.
Could easily be 12k plus flights + camp store and it only goes up from there
harpejjist@reddit
It was amazing for my offspring. Best thing I ever paid for. And yeah, it wasn't cheap. But we would save all year and most of the Christmas and birthday gifts from the whole family went to the camp fund. (requested by offspring!)
And when kids grow up they can graduate to being junior counselors and then counselors. A great way to get job experience.
ElleM848645@reddit
They still have that. My son has no desire to do that though.
Usual-Reputation-154@reddit
You must not know any Jews, camp is alive and well
BubbhaJebus@reddit
Jews in camps... that has a really bad sound to it.
PhilosophyBitter7875@reddit
Jewish sleepaway camp in the catskills.
Quintllgetyourshark@reddit
I’m literally reading this thread while I’m two weeks into installing inflatable water park features on lakes in the Catskills for Jewish sleep away camps 😂
Usual-Reputation-154@reddit
Poconos for me
Curmudgy@reddit
Mine was kind of where they meet.
GasFartRepulsive@reddit
This still exists but these camps are usually insanely expensive now
Frondstherapydolls@reddit
I wanted to send my 12 year old to one of those, til I saw the price. Cost as much as in state tuition at the local community college. Nope.
ThisIsATastyBurgerr@reddit
i looked it up, that shits for rich kids now
smarmiebastard@reddit
My sister sent her kids to one in Northern California. Shit’s like $5k for three weeks.
WisconsinWolverine@reddit
My 13 year old is going to two summer camps in a row. We'll have about 20 years of turnaround time from picking him up from the first to dropping him off at the second.
His choice too. He wanted to go to both camps.
Ocean_gurl4224@reddit
Home ownership or just affordable housing in general
MonicaBmore415@reddit
I don't know if "debutante balls" are still a thing now, but they were done back in the day.
crazycatlady331@reddit
Getting a summer job in a field like retail or food service.
Today, most of the employees at said locations are clearly adults.
ElectricMayhem06@reddit
They won't even hire teenagers to deliver newspapers anymore.... to the 78 people in the city who get the daily newspaper.
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
Who gets newspapers besides commercial groups?
Delivering newspapers made sense as a kid when every house in a neighborhood got one. Now it's probably a 10 minute drive between subscribers.
frugalsoul@reddit
Yup. I subbed for a buddy a few times in the 90s. More houses got the paper than didn't. Now? Not so much. I'd hate to see how big the route is
ElectricMayhem06@reddit
That's obviously part of the equation. I used this example because it was another "teenager job" that died out as we "progressed" as a society.
ElleM848645@reddit
My 80 year old father in law has a couple newspaper subscription where he gets the physical paper. My husband will actually buy the paper for certain sports related things. Newspapers are expensive too!
Thin_Cable4155@reddit
Even 20 years ago it was already a guy in a pickup truck.
lumpialarry@reddit
I think this whole thread doesn't realize that 20 years ago was 2006 and not 1992
Alienspacedolphin@reddit
Kids have so many activities they don’t have the time.
ForestOranges@reddit
Maybe about 13-14 years ago my former employer got in trouble for violating minor labor laws. They decided it wasn’t worth the headache and stopped hiring minors after that. The only exception was any of us who were underage were “grandfathered in” under the old system and wouldn’t lose our jobs but they wouldn’t hire any more minors.
danhm@reddit
Especially getting a summer job that you could use to buy a car or a year of college tuition with. Although to be fair that was no longer realistic 20 years ago either.
ElleM848645@reddit
20 years ago you could buy a car but certainly not college.
CryptographerIcy4465@reddit
I would think buying a college would be a pretty costly endeavor, even for fairly well-off individuals.
IneptFortitude@reddit
A car? AND paying for college? Off of a retail job? I don’t think that’s been possible in America for a very long time.
danhm@reddit
or not and
lily_fairy@reddit
i graduated high school in 2018, and i always applied to these jobs in high school and never got hired. i got denied from being a hostess at a chain restaurant because they wanted someone with work experienced. even babysitting gigs were hard to find, people either wanted nannies with degrees in early childhood or they wanted a family friend they already knew. i did what my parents told me and walked into places to hand my resume. i even went door to door handing out flyers for babysitting. only landed a summer job once after trying every year ages 16-21.
crazycatlady331@reddit
I graduated high school two decades before you. WHen I was 13, I took the Red Cross babysitting course (as part of Girl Scouts) and got certified. By 14, I had regular babysitting gigs. At 15, I got a job at a summer camp as a counselor. At 16, I sold popcorn at a movie theater.
All of those jobs were applied to analog style (pen and paper as opposed to online applications, which did not exist at the time).
ElleM848645@reddit
Ah yes the Red Cross babysitting course! I took that at 12. I was babysitting a lot from 12-16. I was babysitting an infant at 14. It’s actually crazy, thinking about how no one does that anymore. All our babysitters for our son have been in their 20s or older. I couldn’t imagine a 12 year old babysitting our son when he was a baby/toddler.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Really?
tzetzat@reddit
Why is this the case?
lily_fairy@reddit
i think part of it is that many grown adults need minimum wage jobs because one salary is not enough to live off of anymore so teens are competing with people who actually have a resume with work experience.
crazycatlady331@reddit
A lot of chain employers expect part-time employees to have 24/7 availability.
McDonald's was a part-time job. If one was only available in the evenings, that's when they worked. Now they expect you to work breakfast too.
jigokubi@reddit
I've worked with quite a few young people doing just that in recent years.
Accomplished-Door5@reddit
I have an 18 year old nephew that has worked at two different pizza places with a bunch of other teens. Maybe this varies from city to city or something.
Mystical-Turtles@reddit
Honestly blame the locations for that one, not the kids. When I was in high school, My friend had a local restaurant say to her face to come back when she's 18. A lot of places just plain don't hire teens anymore. And that was like 10 years ago, It's even worse now.
lz425@reddit
Do schools have drivers ed anymore? I’m from NYC so didn’t bother. Do people pay for drivers ed?
7thAndGreenhill@reddit
Chinese Fire Drill
bricklegos@reddit (OP)
lmao as a Chinese person I would like to know what this is...
7thAndGreenhill@reddit
it's where you stop at a red light, everyone gets out and runs around the car getting back into different seats. The driver and passenger essentially switch places. It was quite common in the 1960s and 1970s. Chinese fire drill - Wikipedia
Few_Sea_4314@reddit
I taught my DD and her friends how to do this back in the 80s-90s. Now that I am older, I can understand why none of those parents elected me "Mom of the Year". I also took them out when they needed to TP the FB team before the championship game.. I could have used that TP six years ago.
7thAndGreenhill@reddit
You sound like the parents I wish I had!
Few_Sea_4314@reddit
AAawwwww!! Thank you!
byebybuy@reddit
Anecdotally I was a kid in the 90s and we do it then, too.
hiak37@reddit
also could be- when someone is using a stall in a public bathroom, somebody lights a newspaper on fire, slides it under the door and yells "FIRE" then other people dump buckets of water over the top of the stalls walls. Super evil.
username-generica@reddit
WTF?!? I was a kid during the 80s and have never heard of that.
hiak37@reddit
I witnessed it in a college dorm, just horrible, But, terribly funny
Successful_Nature712@reddit
Uh. Happy cake day?
I have never heard of this version. It sounds awful…
Waygeek@reddit
It’s a game where when your car full of your friends reach a red light, you all jump out, run around, and get in another seat. Or maybe the same seats after running around. I don’t recall.
It was called “Chinese” to suggest disorder/incompetence. The game was invented in the Sixties, thus the casual racism.
10thousndreflections@reddit
Casual?
McFlyyouBojo@reddit
That difference of different seat/same seat caused confusion and got my friends foot ran over. Never playing that again.
calcato@reddit
Wow! THAT is the fault of the driver who didn't wait before all the doors were closed! You gotta have a trustworthy driver.
McFlyyouBojo@reddit
Yeah, it was bad. We were in a quiet neighborhood and it was an adult driving who listened to a bunch of dumb kids who wanted to do it and when a car pulled up behind her she panicked. How dumb
bricklegos@reddit (OP)
To be fair China in the 60s was disorderly...
DannyDanumba@reddit
Turbulent 60s is what we unofficially call it lol
GeneralBlumpkin@reddit
Oof to be fair China in the 60s was horrible. Mao Zedong, famine, and political turmoil..
clearliquidclearjar@reddit
It's where you stop at a red light and the driver amd passenger switch sides. It's not a rite of passage, just a racist name for something people don't do often.
bricklegos@reddit (OP)
As a chinese person idrc about the name to be honest
korey_david@reddit
Don’t worry. A bunch of people here will be offended on your behalf.
SnakeBatter@reddit
I did this exactly once, but not for fun. I was driving in downtown Dallas, and missed my turn 3 times. The problem was my only option after the missed turn was to get back on the IH and turn around, took about 15 minutes each time. After the 3rd time getting off the highway, I was stopped at a light and my man just said “get out” and we did a Chinese fire drill and he got it right first T. That was a rush and I won’t be doing it again.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Wow, haven't heard that phrase in a minute. . .
lunkenvue@reddit
Gas Station Condomes
DelayDue2121@reddit
Finding your Dad’s porno magazines.
ssealy412@reddit
Snipe hunting
Many-River-1064@reddit
Cow Tipping too
ssealy412@reddit
We were always too scared. Then we heard it could seriously hurt the cow...
Many-River-1064@reddit
I guess somebody could get lucky with the right cow to actually accomplish the feat, but with the kind that we raise in our area you're never going to get that lucky. They are prey animals and the herd will signal that intruders (predators) are in the pasture. Our cattle are 1400 pounds on average and most are pregnant in the Fall/Winter time. You'd have to push pretty hard to even make them budge and they can be very mean if you don't get them at the jump. It's why you send the uninitiated out there because they think there's an actual chance to tip one when in reality, the cows heard us coming from a mile or two away.
ssealy412@reddit
Wow great info... glad I never tried. Eep.
Photo_Dove_1010220@reddit
Around me, rural farming area, kids used to do field work in the summer. More and more of those places have switched away from using kids to migrant labor. Now younger kids just don't really get a job or do the typical babysitting or lawn work.
Jass0602@reddit
Getting your first dumb phone in high school.
JudgeWhoOverrules@reddit
Running around terrorizing the neighborhood as a kid with your parents, not knowing what you're doing, where you are, or how to contact you with the understanding that you'll be back home before the street lights turn on.
Haunting_PoetGhost4@reddit
Gen Z didn’t even get free roam childhood (Ages 19-29 as of 2026) I’d say millennials were the last generation that got some kind of non-micromanaged free roaming childhood fun.
PCBassoonist@reddit
Plus everyone on Nextdoor is a snitch.
Melodic_Corner_400@reddit
Now a days too if kids are in a group being loud during the day they get posted in the Nextdoor/Facebook group from someone mad they are not quiet at 430 in the afternoon.
silkywhitemarble@reddit
A lot of that terrorizing the neighborhood still happens... now, they are on e-bikes and parents don't know where they are.
South-King6118@reddit
idk everyone in my school is absolutely obsessed with it but ig it depends on the area
BeachSuperb@reddit
Owning a home
sideshow--@reddit
Getting drunk out of your mind in your 21st birthday.
katarh@reddit
..... or your 19th birthday in college because they were a little bit less anal about checking IDs 20 years ago.
SidAndPersi@reddit
Or your 18th, because you’re that old.
katarh@reddit
My oldest sister was born in exactly the right year that she was legally able to drink for 1 month before the age went up again.
Turned 18? 1 month of drinking woooo! Ooops age got ratcheted to 19, not legal any more.
Head_Razzmatazz7174@reddit
You waited until you were 21?
PCBassoonist@reddit
I was pretty excited to get my first legal drink, no just whatever nastiness was at a party.
possums101@reddit
That’s rare today?
bricklegos@reddit (OP)
Maybe he didn't have any friends to drink with? No offense
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
I went bar hopping on my 21st birthday. I think I had 3, maybe 4 drinks? Doesn’t help that a beer at a cheap bar is $8 these days. I was born in 2000 for reference.
mxremix@reddit
You havent seen all the industry handwringing? It paints quite a picture of the medium-scope trajectory of history that milleniels "killed" diamond markets and gen z "killed" alcohol markets.
Spongedog5@reddit
Nah I think I had like 1 beer on my 21st birthday and I have a lot of friends who have decided to not drink alcohol. I certainly have friends who like to partake as well, even a lot, but it is at the least a 50/50 kind of thing.
Asparagus9000@reddit
I don't know about rare, but alcohol consumption in young adults has dropped a lot. They drink good alcohol instead of as much as they can get their hands on.
xxmadshark33xx@reddit
It definitely still happens, but alcohol consumption in general has dropped drastically with younger people.
sideshow--@reddit
First, I didn’t wait. I got drunk out of my mind multiple times before 21.
Second, young people don’t drink like young people did in the past. They do thc and other kinds of marijuana related products much more than drinking.
Harbinger_Kyleran@reddit
I almost killed myself on my 21st birthday by drinking 25 shots of bourbon (because why stop at 21?) to celebrate. Worse I was on a remote canoe/ camping trip where no help really was possible.
Fortunately natural vomiting instincts took over while I was still conscious because all my friends did was laugh and keep on drinking.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
But even if consumption is generally down it doesn’t mean people won’t get wrecked on their 21st birthdays
It can still be an occasional thing
sideshow--@reddit
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. With a country of 350 million, I’m sure it does. But it’s rarer compared with the past. That’s what this post is about. Not that it doesn’t happen. That it’s rare. And I think it is comparatively.
whipla5her@reddit
I was going to ask if the kids still drink tequila.
Usagi_Shinobi@reddit
Achieving functional adulthood.
Apart-Shelter-9277@reddit
Learning to drive a stick shift/manual transmission car. Which is a real shame because they're so fun to drive
3CatsInATrenchcoat16@reddit
Your parents buying you a shitty but beloved used car when you got your license.
GrannyTurtle@reddit
Apparently getting a driver’s license at the earliest possible time.
Bastyra2016@reddit
Having your mom pull you out of school to get your learners permit/drivers license on your 15/16 th birthday. My school didn’t allow it which pissed if my mom. I suddenly had a dentist appointment she forgot about. Now a days a lot of kids don’t seem to care if they get a license or not.
oldladylikesflowers@reddit
My kids are 21, 20, and 16. I always took/take my kids out of school for whatever I want. The school won’t actually do anything about it 🤷♀️
Bastyra2016@reddit
My mom was pretty non confrontational but when she showed up to sign me out (or however it worked) the lady asked the reason and she said drivers test. The women said with apparently a condescending attitude “that is not an approved excuse” and my mom looked her straight in the eye and said “oh I forgot BasTyra has a dentist appointment” and just stared her down. I was proud of her for standing up for a parent’s right to make this small decision for their kid. She also had to get into it with my sisters 5th grade teacher. My grandmother was moving to assisted living and my folks pulled us out of school for a week to go down to Florida (12 hr drive) to pack up the house and help my grandmother-my dad didn’t have enough vacation to do it all himself. My sisters teacher acted like my straight A sister was going to flunk out of elementary school and end up on the streets.
oldladylikesflowers@reddit
Yeah, I know there are strict guidelines about attendance, but at the end of the day, they are my kids and if we can take a cheaper vacation during the school year or if my kid needs a mental health day, I will take them out of school! They always do their work.
tcdaf7929@reddit
I pulled both of my kids out of school (2014, 2018) to get their DL….your right though, had to make up a dr appointment.
DigTheDunes@reddit
People going out, especially the kids that were in HS and locked down during covid. Their social skills are nothing like older people, so they just stay at home.
Alienspacedolphin@reddit
Anonymous prank phone calls
Not_tlong@reddit
Good luck wandering around walmart or the grocery store with the homies after midnight just to hang. Covid just about annihilated that wonder.
Alienspacedolphin@reddit
They aren’t allowed in our local mall under 18 without an adult
pandaru_express@reddit
Ooooh or just hanging out at the mall. I didn't know hanging out at the grocery store was a common thing, local high school kids still do that here which I thought was weird.
serious_sarcasm@reddit
It was most common in rural areas.
RealAssociation5281@reddit
Yep, we used to wander around Walmart a lot when I was a teenager also the park (which was kinda sketchy but lol).
hermmm8@reddit
So many malls now have “youth escort policies” which require anyone under the age of 18 to be accompanied by an adult.
304libco@reddit
I feel like nothing is open late anymore
depressed_crustacean@reddit
Genuinely the only thing open past midnight where I live is a McDonalds now because of Covid
forceghost187@reddit
*Because corporations used Covid as an excuse to permanently close everything early to save on operating costs
zninjamonkey@reddit
Why did they need the excuse?
phillyFart@reddit
They used it as a case study to reasonably justify it
forceghost187@reddit
If a corporation had done it before covid, they would have been the only ones doing it and it would have hurt sales. If every corporation would have worked together to close early pre covid, that would have been collusion and similar to what happens in a monopoly. Covid gave corporations the excuse to all close early at once, and never go back
TechnologyDragon6973@reddit
They even called it “temporary covid hours”.
LogicalFallacyCat@reddit
Around me the only things open late are Taco Bell and the 24/7 Dunkin, but even then they're drive-through only overnight.
adamsandleryabish@reddit
God forbid you want some food at 10:30 that isn't Taco Bell
Helicopter0@reddit
I blame the cameras. They didn't know how much theft was at night and then they found out they were actually losing money because of it.
lolomo119@reddit
Not even late at night but just shopping or hanging out at the mall with your friends!
The mall near me (one of the largest in the US) now has age restrictions where if you’re under 18 you have to be accompanied by an adult (21+) to even shop after 3pm.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
That's their own fault though.
It's not like cities just got together and decided they didn't want kids to be there, those kids started brawling and shooting each other, then the cities decided that.
lolomo119@reddit
Definitely not saying it’s not warranted but it still sucks for the kids that are growing up without that experience. There’s not really a replacement ‘third place’ for them.
Tooch10@reddit
Even in NJ, the diner capital, I believe there are only 12 left statewide that are true 24/7. Most close at somee point and there are a few that are 24/7 on the weekend
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
That’s ridiculous. Not having 24/7 diners is a travesty of the highest order
According-Classic658@reddit
Kids nowadays will never know the truest of entertainment, walmart people watching at 2am.
wanna_talk_to_samson@reddit
That guitar hero test box was clutch
beatbox21@reddit
The ability to drive is independence!
Southern-Usual4211@reddit
Getting a BB gun, it was super common in the 80s/90s but now I dont know of any kids that had them
brumac44@reddit
We played a game in the woods called pellet guns and raincoats. Basically 12 year olds conducting non-lethal warfare in the forest. It all came to a head one fall when someone's non-combatant kid sister took a pellet just below her eye. A day later, nearly every kid in town suffered disarmament and we never saw those pellet guns again.
docweston@reddit
We had SWAT called out on us. SWAT, the freaking helicopter, at least 2 dozen marked units, dogs... All thanks to the nosey old man at the end of the street who saw kids going into the woods and called in a terrorist attack! And the cops didn't catch us until we got back to my friend's place!
LtKavaleriya@reddit
A friend of mine in rural Ohio said he and his fiends dressed up as Russian “terrorists” in the late ‘90s, complete with realistic looking airsoft guns, and set up a “checkpoint” on a rural road stopping cars and asking them for ID before letting them go. Imagine if that happened today
AGodwardCountenance@reddit
Wolverines!
Secret_Bees@reddit
"Prison or military?" is, I believe, the question they would get asked
Uber_Reaktor@reddit
Running around the neighborhood at 10pm shooting each other with realistic airsoft guns (yes we blacked out the orange tips... we were stupid kids, as is usual). That was a very different time lol.
uhohohnohelp@reddit
This! All the boys in my family got a BB gun for Christmas when they were 7 from my grandpa. It was tradition. I don’t think my cousins’ wives are allowing the kids to get their first gun that young lol.
PJ_lyrics@reddit
It kind of went to airsoft guns instead. My son has a few of them and goes to the airsoft fields often where they play war games. Them fuckers hurt too lol.
jgnp@reddit
I feel like that has bifurcated to very few kids having BB guns and other surprisingly young kids being heavily exposed to entire arsenals. Everybody’s dad had a handful of guns when I was growing up and we were fascinated with them, read guns n ammo at the barbershop, but today there are tons of kids heavily involved in firearms culture in America.
I’ve still got three of my BB guns from childhood. And an arsenal that has been locked up and effectively unused since my kids were born. My 9yo daughter has done the hunters safety course but nothing hands on yet other than a day plinking with the pump Crosman pellet gun.
Mental-Artist-6157@reddit
I'm in the Northeastern part of the States, my two older boys, now 21 & 19, had airsoft at age 12.
LtKavaleriya@reddit
I gave my kid brother and law my old Red Ryder and he shot out his bedroom window lol
Successful_Nature712@reddit
I think this is more regional. I know tons of kids with BB guns and even more adults.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
I'm 44 and have a bb/pellet gun in my office!
ErectStoat@reddit
Yeah I mean I'm an adult and would buy a BB gun for myself to plink in my backyard...except the backstop is my neighbor's house 20 yards away. Plus the whole "omg he's aiming a gun" problem.
Modern suburbia is pretty incompatible with BB guns (and yes, I recognize the irony that my back yard is about the same size as in A Christmas Story).
Pitiful_Fox5681@reddit
That's a good one. I've noticed that next door here in AZ too.
szayl@reddit
Yule shoot yer eye out
violet_wings@reddit
This one is interesting. I wonder if A Christmas Story is what popularized BB guns in that era. I'm sure it's school shootings and twitchy police officers that have made them less popular.
My dad and uncle had a competition each year at Christmas to give each other's kids nuisance gifts back in the 80s and 90s, so my uncle gave me BB guns two separate years, one of which I barely used and the other of which I don't think I ever used, lol.
MrsPedecaris@reddit
BB guns were popular long before A Christmas Story. The movie theme is retro and referring to things that were popular long before it came out.
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
They were never terribly popular in suburbia, and twitchy, shitty moms are making it even worse.
Recently one of my kids was playing with a toy gun (like, revolutionary war style) in the street and a neighbor came to us asking him to tell him to stop because it was scaring her daughters.
wotantx@reddit
Daisy Pal here. They hadn't reintroduced the Red Rider when I got mine.
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
More than 20 years ago, but a pre internet phenomenon was boys to finding pornography hidden in the woods.
Moist-Golf-8339@reddit
Almost every hotel bed I looked under in the 90s had porn mags!
Hot_Depth_3367@reddit
Madison Wi?
Moist-Golf-8339@reddit
Yeah that was in the 90s tho. The west town holiday inn.
Hot_Depth_3367@reddit
I have good memories from Madtown in the 90s! Js!
pxystx89@reddit
I (37F) grew up next to the empty wooded lot that housed the neighborhood boys secret clubhouse. It caught fire one time and the fire dept had to come out and it was no longer became a secret. The next day I went out to the burn site and anyway that’s the story of how I saw a playboy for the first time when I was 7 lol
Also being unsupervised in the woods at 7 is a thing that definitely doesn’t happen anymore
Hot_Depth_3367@reddit
Us girls found the porn as well! In the woods, in our older brothers bedrooms etc.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
I experienced that and was born in 2000. Though it was a gravel pit on the side of a highway. Not the woods. Someone left a magazine behind lmao
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
This sounds about right. It definitely would be in bushes and other places. Not just woods. But if you lived near woods, there was almost definitely some stash of pornography.
FrankDrebinOnReddit@reddit
Getting a driver's license is less important than it used to be. Maybe it's that I live in a city that doesn't actually require a car, but my friends' driving-aged kids aren't all that excited to get their license, whereas that used to be the ticket to freedom when I was growing up.
KellyAnn3106@reddit
My friends and I all got our licenses the minute we turned 16.
I was talking to a coworker who was talking about driving her kid and friends around on prom night because none of them drive at 18.
pdxiowa@reddit
In 2005 I could make $15 an hour delivering pizzas and I could buy a functional used Honda/Toyota for $1000 (exactly how much I paid for a '92 Acura Integra), and gas was $1.50 a gallon. Same job now pays $25 an hour, comparable car (2013 Civic) costs >$5k, and gas costs over $5 a gallon. Wages have less than doubled, while gas has more than tripled and used car prices have quintupled. This is all while they have to also contend with increasingly exorbitant tuition and housing fees should they pursue higher education. If I were 16 today I doubt I could afford a car.
Slight-Pound@reddit
$25 hours for such a job sounds great, because most good service job - even the manager - barely hits $20.
Mystical-Turtles@reddit
And then on top of that, A lot of schools have stopped offering drivers Ed classes. That's another $500 you have to slap down if you're in a state that requires that. And then there's insurance which is like another $300 a month for teen drivers. For my family those price points alone were the end of the discussion right then and there. I had to wait till I was 18, and technically didn't get my license until 20 because other things kept getting in the way.
TheSaltyDog73@reddit
True dat!
RealAssociation5281@reddit
My husbands family can’t afford to put his sister on their insurance nor help her get a car…and she can’t find a job (just turned 18 late last year so hopefully she’ll have more luck once summer hits).
Nyxelestia@reddit
Not to mention that more and more families only have a single car to share -- which means that they don't have a back-up option should the teenager make a mistake and crash the car or something.
TheSaltyDog73@reddit
Good points! In the 60s I earned a lot in the lawn mowing business. Bought my own stereo, got a car at 16—my father kicked in $200 and I paid $500.
Hot-Somewhere-5285@reddit
But cell phones and tvs are cheaper now so things are actually WAYYY less expensive now. Stop being ungrateful. -Some upper middle class redditor probably.
hollys_follies@reddit
That’s wild. For prom, my friends and I pooled our money and rented a limo. We had jobs and cars.
The last thing I wanted was adult supervision while I was learning how to be an adult.
KellyAnn3106@reddit
None of these kids have jobs either so they don't have any money to pool.
When I was a teenager in the 90s, we all had jobs and cars. I started babysitting for other families at 11 and got my first W-2 job at a restaurant at 15.
AvailableAd6071@reddit
Amateurs
Not_an_okama@reddit
Im still under 30, i went and got my liscense as soon as the office was open on my 16th birthday.
My fraternity little brother who is only 2 school years behind me didnt have one when i met him his freshman year of college. I gave him a hard time about it for like 2 years and even offered to drive with him and let him get some practice using my vehicle before i dropped out. Took a 2 year gap, lil bro was in his 5th year as a senior i went back to school. He still didnt have a liscense. He finally went and did it at 23 with 2 weeks left in school and 6 weeks from starting an engineering job where he was going to have to drive a work truck several hundred miles per week.
SabresBills69@reddit
There has been a big shift im post late 90s born kids not getting drivers license by 18
eugenesbluegenes@reddit
There was no other way to get around and if you wanted to interact with other teens you had to leave your home.
Darmok47@reddit
I wonder if its because there's not really any place for kids to hang out anymore.
Malls are going away. Where I grew up in the suburbs there used to be 24 hour Denny's where my friends and I would hang out on weekend nights. They're both gone now.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Sometimes I think that’s part of it but I went to HS in a dead town ~10 years ago and we still found places to go. Bonfires, hiking trails, gas station for snacks, over to a friends house to play video games.
Nyxelestia@reddit
Those first three options sound ripe for getting the cops called on you for being unsupervised minors, and the last one is now achievable remotely so there's no need to physically go to each other's houses.
I mean shit, I already mostly "hung out" with friends online back in 2010 when I got my license at 17. The options for digitally hanging out with friends have grown astronomically since then. Part of why I was "late" to get a license is because by the time I got it, I still didn't have a car and was using my dad's; and just by virtue of how our work and school schedules aligned at the time, there wasn't really any time I could use the car that my dad didn't also need. If a kid doesn't need to get to school/work with independent driving (because they wouldn't be able to use their parent's car anyway and can't afford a car of their own) and they can hang out with friends without the hassle of physically moving between locations...then why bother? It's expensive to learn how to drive and to add a teenager to the car insurance plan.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
Gaming was achievable remotely even more so in 2015 but we’d still go over each others houses to hangout and game.
But yeah I’m not denying that Karens are out there calling the cops on kids. Maybe it’s just a small town Pennsylvania thing because high schoolers having a bonfire in someone’s yard or hiking in a state park isn’t really much of a public concern here. I see kids at Sheetz all the time and nobody cares.
oharacopter@reddit
I didn't get my license until I was 23 (I'm 25 now). I wasn't in a rush because I didn't have a car and couldn't afford a car, so it made no difference to me.
TheMcWhopper@reddit
Our local mall is booming
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
I’m guessing because kids don’t go out because they’re just doomscrolling. I’m 100% projecting but the amount of \~\~kids\~\~ people just on social media 24/7 (me included) has skyrocketed to the point people just don’t go anywhere
ZaphodG@reddit
Insurance costs for new drivers is now absurd. A reliable used car is expensive since most new car buyers tend to own their cars for many years.
In a lot of the country, you can get by fairly well with an e-bike. The 20 mph ones don’t need to be registered in most states. You can upgrade them to go faster with longer range and the police are unlikely to care. Compared to the ownership cost of a car, you can pay for an awful lot of Uber when you can’t use the e-bike.
byebybuy@reddit
Those things can be so dangerous and a lot of the kids I see riding them don't wear helmets. I recognize the points you just made but it makes me nervous to see it normalized, and I'm ambivalent about letting my kid get one (but he's only 8 so I've got some time to figure it out). It's like they all have little motorcycles.
RealAssociation5281@reddit
I’m more scared of drivers and the huge ass trucks people have but yeah, please wear helmets folks.
ZaphodG@reddit
I rode a bicycle more than 20 mph without a helmet when I was a child. I was probably 35 the first time I wore a helmet riding a bicycle. I survived lots of things the safety police would shudder at.
byebybuy@reddit
Sorry, are you saying they don't need helmets?
hollys_follies@reddit
I’m laughing imagining our Mad Max future starts like this, with little motorcycles 😂
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Interesting..getting a driver's license is important
LtKavaleriya@reddit
I live in rural Ohio and the kids here don’t usually get licenses right away either. I myself (born 99) didn’t get it until I was a few months shy of 18
rando439@reddit
Even where I live, which has minimal mass transportation and many people who say, "Mass transit isn't for people like me," the same is happening. My guesses for why are:
How are they going to afford it? Beater cars aren't a thing and repairing your own car is less and less of an option. Insurance is high. Gas is high. Jobs are hard to come by.
Vehicles are huge so the learning curve is higher, as are gas prices.
People behind the wheel are angrier in their bigger vehicles.
When a kid has been raised to be very risk averse because modern life has a much smaller margine of error than we did in earlier generations. Plus no one trusts a teen to think because life is 18 years of structured daycare with more accountability but near zero free will followed by "One mess up and it's adult prison for you or fines that cost more money than you've earned so far" on your 18th birthday. Few teens in their right minds would be eager to take on a task where failing might get them and maybe someone else killed?
Driver's ed has gone the way of the dodo. Seeing your classmates making silly mistakes and learning together isn't an option. Any mistake is going to be a critical failure.
Assuming they do get a license, where are they going to go? And with who? And with what gas?
Bear_necessities96@reddit
Car are unaffordable nowadays that’s the thing
filkerdave@reddit
This really depends on where you live.
Soggy-Attempt@reddit
Helicopter parents drive them everywhere
shikashika97@reddit
I think another big part of this is driver's ed. At my high school, the class of 2015 was the last to have in-person driver's ed. When the end of the class was nearing, people would get hyped to book their appointment to take their driver's test and talk about it a lot. It was an attainable bragging right. When we moved to online driver's ed, it was monotonous. It didn't count as a credit-earning class, so you had to just sit there and watch these boring videos for hours on end at home. There wasn't a set time that the class ended or anything, so there wasn't as much hype around getting your license. You just show up to school one day with some car keys.
Humble-Reaction1492@reddit
That is crazy! I never thought of it like that, but honestly in-person driver's education was a huge reason I wanted a license and sadly failed and needed to get one 1 year later after my parents monitoring me sharply. Now my nieces neither have nor seem to want a license and find no embarrassment or frustration at not having one. I think as life as paradoxically gotten safer, we see concerning stuff instantly on digital media and think its better to avoid driving. Also, third spaces seem to be less common than before.
McFlyyouBojo@reddit
Its because kids hang out online these days.
therealJerryJones@reddit
I live in a town where a car is an absolute necessity, and same. Kids just don’t seem to care about getting their license the same way. I knew my parents didn’t have money to buy me a car but I couldn’t wait to get my drivers license on my 16th birthday.
Weak_Syllabub_7994@reddit
It's because they know Mommy and Daddy will be their unpaid Uber driver whenever they want.
Start saying "no" to them once they turn 16 and see if they still don't want to get licenses.
bucketnebula@reddit
I think it has more to do with Mom and dad being unable to afford car insurance once their kids have a license. I worked car insurance sales for a bit, it's easy for a 16 year old to jack up the price of a 6 month policy by 700+ dollars.
Weak_Syllabub_7994@reddit
I don't think it's that for a number of reasons:
Teenagers have always been expensive to insure and it's never made kids less interested in driving in the past.
My coworkers with children old enough to drive can definitely afford to insure them but the kids are still indifferent about getting a license.
I doubt the same generation that runs up hundreds of dollars in door dash on their parents' cards is forgoing getting a license because they're worried their parents will have to spend money.
bucketnebula@reddit
I'd address each of these replies as best as I know. You're likely right about a certain percentage of kids, but there's a lot more factors than just "kids these days are so lazy"
Firstly, kids have absolutely always been more expensive to insure. That said, the amount insurance companies swindle from people has gone up significantly. My parents had me pay the difference in insurance premium when I got my license until I got on my own policy. This was 2008, and I paid 35 dollars a month. Much more reasonable for insurance to go up that amount compared to over 100 dollars, as much as 250 dollars a month as I've personally seen.
Secondly, to address replies for #2 and 3, it all comes down to parenting. If parents allow their kids to not get a job, cart them around, and be lazy, you'd be an idiot to expect a teenager not be lazy. Kids need to be motivated and, if a parent can afford car insurance for their kid, should absolutely be encouraging their kids to get a license. The big reason a lot of kids don't care is because, once they get a license, what are they gonna do? Go to a run down mall selling stuff they can't afford/don't want? Hang out with friends at their parents house? God forbid they go to a park to walk around, hell when I was a teen I got bitched at several times for walking around parks with my friends, "this place is for kids, you're being noisy, go get a job!" Teens nowadays can hang out with their friends online in relative privacy.
They cant go anywhere or do anything because the minimum wage job they work doesn't pay enough for them to take a road trip, and even if they make good money, mom might freak out at the thought of them leaving to go a few towns over.
I get why a lot of teens don't have their license. I agree that some of it is laziness, but the bigger picture why is a little more in depth.
sadiesourapple@reddit
Same here! It meant freedom! I think kids are so used to being able to interact with friends online they don't care that much about seeing them in person. My son never wants to leave the house but not being able to play a game online with friends is the end of the world.
VoopityScoop@reddit
I'm 20 and don't have a license. I do want to get it but I just never feel the motivation to. So what if I do get it, I can't afford a car, I can't afford insurance, I can't afford the gas, I can't afford to go anywhere.
yinzerthrowaway412@reddit
But what about in case of a future job or visiting friends or if there is a family emergency or something? Ohio is very car dependent even in the cities.
I’m not trying to sound rude I just find this interesting lol
SkiingAway@reddit
Not OP but if you can't afford insurance you can't go visit friends just because you have a license....
(And in an actual emergency....well, you can drive unlicensed just like you can drive uninsured).
Folksma@reddit
You just move to a city like I did
Nearly 30/ from the rural Midwest and don't have my driver's license.
VoopityScoop@reddit
I don't really have any friends, so visiting them isn't a problem. College is very isolating. I haven't yet had any kind of family emergency that really depends on me having a license, thank God. I've mostly just worked in areas I could walk or take a bus to, or Uber if needed.
I mostly try not to think about it. I know it's wrong, but I've had a hard time motivating myself to do anything for a while now. I'm probably a bit of an outlier.
IwannaAskSomeStuff@reddit
Exactly what I was thinking! Many people I know with teens now have kids that don't drive until after high school
anclwar@reddit
This is so weird to me as someone that grew up in the suburbs and had a job one town over at 16. I was late to get my license because of some logistical things (my birthday is annoyingly close to a major holiday weekend and my parents only had one car at the time), but I still got my license as soon as I could.
I understand that used cars are not as dirt cheap as they were back in my day, but part of the whole thing was working a job you needed the car to get to so you could a afford to buy the car, if that makes any sense. I bummed rides off friends who worked with me, my parents used it as an opportunity to get my permit hours in on the weekends, etc.
Weary_Capital_1379@reddit
It doesn’t seem that Gen Z cares about cars. My friends did nothing but talk about cars.
Meowmeowmeow31@reddit
Graduated drivers licenses (which I think are good) also make it less of an “instant ticket to freedom” for teens in car-dependent areas.
Smokinsumsweet@reddit
Answering the family telephone for the first time. You never knew who was calling or what it would be about. It would ring in like the living room or the middle of your kitchen where everyone could take part lol
thesmacca@reddit
Handing out little versions of your high school senior pictures
PCBassoonist@reddit
Yes! I had forgotten about that!
Kenneth37042@reddit
Required communal showers in public school.
PCBassoonist@reddit
That wasn't required when I went to school 2004-2007.
Soggy-Attempt@reddit
Getting drunk and stupid on your 21st bday.
Phone cameras ruined it.
PCBassoonist@reddit
Yeah, I'm so glad my drunk college self isn't on tiktok. We had Facebook, but almost no one could afford a smart phone.
Bmor00bam@reddit
Taking someone out on a date to the movie theater.
PCBassoonist@reddit
Really? Where do the kids go to make out? Do their parents just let them do it at home?
stabbingrabbit@reddit
Leaving high-school / your youthful indiscretions behind when you grow up. Now your mistakes follow you for the rest of your life.
PCBassoonist@reddit
I honestly feel really bad for kids about that. I went to college and yeah, I had a Myspace, but for the most part, I got to start fresh. And no adult would have every posted me online like they do now. They don't even blur the kids' faces.
musaXmachina@reddit
People don’t catch chickenpox anymore, used to be a herd immunity thing.
tesseractjane@reddit
Its putting all of us who did get chicken pox at a higher risk of shingles at a younger age, but insurance still won't cover the shingles vaccine until you're 50.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Two more years for me. So far, so good. . .
tesseractjane@reddit
My fingers are crossed! Husband is 3 and a half years from qualifying, but I have almost 10 years to go!
Gloomy-Albatross-843@reddit
Me too. I'm so freaking scared of the shingles. I had chickenpox very badly when I was little.
UnbelievableRose@reddit
I work in healthcare and I’m terrified. The vaccine came out the year after I got chicken pox- I have 14 years to go still! IDK what my odds are but I don’t like them!
katarh@reddit
Four more years for me.
lAngenoire@reddit
You’re only at risk of shingles because you had chickenpox. The vaccinated people don’t have anything to do with you developing shingles. It’s the dip in immunity that happens as you age.
But still get the vaccine as soon as you can. I’ve known people who had sub-clinical cases of chickenpox and thought they were safe because they thought they never had it.
turtlescanfly7@reddit
I got chicken pox at 3 in 1995 and shingles at age 25.
ClosdforBusiness@reddit
Not to mention the small percentage that develops a rare complication. It’s widely seen as irresponsible now, thankfully.
I think as a result though, I know several 30 something’s who have already had shingles….
tesseractjane@reddit
My ex's aunt went deaf from chicken pox. Her fever got so high it boiled the fluid in her ears. All for vaccinating against the chicken pox, just take care of this last generation of 20th century relics!
wotantx@reddit
My insurance covered it at ~47. IDK how much of that is simply my insurance, and how much is because I had a script. I was going on an immune suppressant, and the shingles vaccine was a requirement from the pharmaceutical company.
GlitterFallWar@reddit
I have yet to find a pharmacy that will even give it to me under age 50, with or without insurance
tesseractjane@reddit
That's good to know. My husband has two older relatives who got the shingles, but when he asked his primary they said it would be high out of pocket, even though he is 47 now. He isnt on an immune suppressant, neither of us are, but if my symptoms get much worse I may need one eventually.
It should really just be made available for everyone who missed the vaccine window.
thewizardsbaker11@reddit
I think that this is valid but also a rapidly closing gap. People around 35 and younger have mostly never gotten the chicken pox. People in the age gap should be eligible for sure, but it’s also on its way to being even less of an issue. (Granted I don’t know the exact likelihood of someone between 35 and 50 getting shingles without having chicken pox, but it’s probably being driven down further by herd immunity to both diseases)
LotusGrowsFromMud@reddit
Shingles is caused by the chicken pox virus, which is still in your body if you have ever had chicken pox. The vaccine is to prevent it from activating again and giving you shingles.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit
To be weirdly specific, it isn't the whole virus. No capsid, envelope proteins etc. It's an episome containing the viral genome.
tesseractjane@reddit
Shingles isn't driven down by herd immunity- people who have had the chicken pox are at risk for developing the shingles- and people my age aren't getting the mid life immunity boost caused by exposure to out children having Chicken Pox. Its great that kids aren't getting chicken pox anymore- but for those of us who were the last yo get chicken pox the vaccine should be covered by insurance at 35 not 50. It's 600$ out of pocket.
Ok-Sport-5528@reddit
Yeah, I’m 47 and patiently waiting, hoping I’m one of the lucky ones that makes it to 50 without a shingles outbreak. 🤞
musaXmachina@reddit
That’s one vax I’m getting, I hear it’s a painful experience.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit
My coworker got it at 40. It was rough. I'm tempted to spend the $200 or so out of pocket
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
So are you suggesting we should all keep getting chickenpox to keep shingles at bay a few years longer? In some ways, getting shingles when you’re younger is better.
tesseractjane@reddit
No. Im saying I would like the shingles vaccine to be made available to Older Millennials like me. My cousin who is three months younger than me (40) got thr shingles last month.
I would like to avoid that by being able to access the shot. Instead the insurance companies are just going to leave us out to dry.
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
The insurance companies would be required to cover it if the FDA approved it for people under 50. So in this case I would blame RFK and the FDA.
tesseractjane@reddit
Its approved for use 18 and up for otherwise immunocompromised individuals. I have an immune disease, still 600$ out of pocket. Its thr insurance companies. Everyone who had the chicken pox should now be eligible for the Shingles vaccine under existing rules.
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
If your immuno compromised and it’s approved for 18&up, you should be able to get coverage for it
tesseractjane@reddit
Nope. It can be used, but insurance doesn't cover anyone for any reason under 50.
My insurance is Federal, high tier, low deductible. It does not cover it. I would have to pay out of pocket. Insurance should do a lot of things, it rarely does them all or does them well.
blackhawk905@reddit
They're saying the opposite, if you had chicken pox you're more likely to get shingles because it's just chicken pox sitting dormant in your system until it becomes active again.
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
Although it’s less likely, you can get shingles if you’ve been vaccinated for chickenpox since the chickenpox vaccine is a alive virus vaccine.
Not_an_okama@reddit
How is it a live virus when viruses dont satisfy the definition of life?
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
Semantics. That’s what they call them.
tesseractjane@reddit
Its closer to being alive than a dead virus. Still capable of replication.
SkiingAway@reddit
Huh? Shingles is caused by the latent virus in your body reactivating.
If you got the vaccine you don't get shingles, and you obviously don't spread chicken pox to others.
tesseractjane@reddit
Right. For those of us who had the chicken pox, but who had children vaccinated against it, there is no midlife immunity boost to the latent infection- as a result shingles is prevalent at younger ages for the older Millennials and Xennials.
So ultimately- good for all the people going into the future, but bad in the short term for the youngest people who were noy vaccinated for Chicken Pox.
1Negative_Person@reddit
I don’t think you understand the concept of herd immunity.
musaXmachina@reddit
I don’t think you were around for that time period.
1Negative_Person@reddit
I’m 40 years old.
musaXmachina@reddit
Ok so what are getting at then?
1Negative_Person@reddit
Herd immunity isn’t “everyone gets sick”. It’s enough of the population is immune from vaccination that the risk of exposure to people who can’t be vaccinated because they’re immunocompromised, and breakthrough cases are minimized because the likelihood of encountering someone who is carrying the disease are next to zero.
We ~~have~~ had herd immunity from measles. It was the case twenty years ago or so that someone who couldn’t be vaccinated for measles could rest relatively easy because nearly everyone around them was vaccinated.
That’s not the same as “Johnny down the road has chicken pox. Let’s have a sleepover at his house so all of the kids catch it when they’re five.” That relies on basically everyone catching chicken pox. That’s not herd immunity.
musaXmachina@reddit
Ok well we disagree. It doesn’t have to be a vaccine. If I make antibodies from the infection it serves the same purpose. It can be achieved through vaccination or prior infection which is what our parents did with chickenpox.
JohnHazardWandering@reddit
This was the disagreement. Herd immunity is still a thing, just via vaccines.
musaXmachina@reddit
That checks out
Moist-Golf-8339@reddit
Still have a chicken pox scar between my eyes.
musaXmachina@reddit
I got one on my side
GlitterFallWar@reddit
It's still a herd immunity thing with the vaccine. The bonus of getting the vaccine over the actual disease (beyond not being sick) is that vaccinated people don't end up with the virus lying dormant in their nerves and thus won't develop shingles.
musaXmachina@reddit
This is true.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
They have a vaccine now.
musaXmachina@reddit
Yeah I just chanced upon that one day.
King_Ralph1@reddit
You’re just now hearing about that? Just how far back in the woods do you live, anyway?
musaXmachina@reddit
I’ve known it for a while now, I don’t remember when I noticed it. Definitely since becoming a parent.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit
It was developed in the early 80s, wasn't approved in the US until 1995. I kind of wish I had been born a couple of years later so I could have gotten the vaccine instead of the disease.
Ms_AU@reddit
I got chicken pox in high school in 1995 right before the vaccine was announced. 😂 now I get to look forward to getting the shingles vaccine.
musaXmachina@reddit
😳😳 how was that experience? Everyone made sure we caught it young because it’s supposed to be worse if you’re older.
Ms_AU@reddit
I caught it at a friend’s house. We were studying for an exam together and her little brother had chicken pox and the chicken pox party was at her house. Everyone thought I’d had it when I was little but I hadn’t. It was awful. Fever, body aches, felt like I’d been hit by a truck and had to miss two weeks of high school.
musaXmachina@reddit
Sheesh
musaXmachina@reddit
Didn’t realize I was that close to it. Born in the 80s
jigokubi@reddit
I caught in around 92, I think. Didn't get much in the way of visible pox, but that was about the sickest I've ever been.
SkiingAway@reddit
Vaccine's been out for 31 years. As someone born in the early 90s I got the vaccine before I was school age.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Yeah, I know. But the other commenters seemed surprised that people were no longer intentionally exposing their kids so they could get that herd immunity.
Casswigirl11@reddit
I just am getting over shingles so I'm happy for those 10 years younger than me who could get the vaccine. Shingles sucks
PlanMagnet38@reddit
Yeah, chicken pox parties were a big deal back in the day!
LOREMECH@reddit
Yep, my mom brought me to one when I was too young to know better
FreeStateOfPortland@reddit
Used to be a herd immunity thing? What? It used to be almost everyone would get it because it’s so contagious. That’s not herd immunity.
Slow_Drawer_5454@reddit
Buying a house
browncoatfever@reddit
Calling a home phone to talk to a girl, but having to speak with their mom or dad first because all they have is a single phone. I envy kids of today not needing to deal with that awkwardness.
greenmtnfiddler@reddit
I feel the opposite - we learned how to converse as kids, so didn't end up with massive social anxiety over simple day-to-day interaction.
browncoatfever@reddit
IDK man. I'm 43 and lived through all that. Still have massive social anxiety. My palms sweet if I have to talk to a cashier lol.
greenmtnfiddler@reddit
I'm so sorry. I wish I could introduce you to my local cashiers. They're all wicked funny, deeply compassionate, and honestly just trying to get through the day like everyone else. We always take a moment to check in - how's your mom? Did your kid break up with that lousy girl/friend? Was the car repair bill stupid high or actually not too bad?
I honestly think women have it easier - we can start with "Gee, I like your earrings/haircut/sweater" and take it from there. Men have it harder.
Firm-Tell-3172@reddit
or friends parents. Some parents were cool, others were dicks
Distinct_Chair3047@reddit
Going on your first deer hunt, drinking the blood and taking a bite of the heart.
clekas@reddit
It doesn't quite fit, because it's not rare, it's just not possible anymore, but, 20 years ago, legally buying your first lottery tickets and a pack of cigarettes was a rite of passage at 18 in most of the US. Now, you can't legally buy cigarettes until you're 21.
RealAssociation5281@reddit
I remember my cousins struggle as a 20 year old when that law hit- my mom would have to buy his cigs lol
ElBurroEsparkilo@reddit
I lived in such small town when I went in to buy lotto tickets they just wished me happy birthday- I had to wait for a road trip to get to show my ID 😁
one_hot_llama@reddit
I bought lotto tickets on my 18th birthday, and they told me they don't card unless you win. (And unfortunately I did not win.)
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
wait you have to be 21 now?? Since when?
clekas@reddit
Individual states have been doing it since 2016, but the nationwide law has been in effect since December 2019.
Wonderful-Truck-3301@reddit
Yeah o couldn't remember when it changed
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Wow..that is great to hear though.. explains all the teens vaping
Lol wish that was in college. The smoking was crazy
Wonderful-Truck-3301@reddit
My first thoughts as well. Nephew just turned 18 and had to ask if he could even buy lotto, knew cigarettes changed.
chameleonsEverywhere@reddit
Existing as a teenager and your parents don't know where you are to within a 30ft radius.
My mom would talk about how as a teen in the late 80s, she would go out with her friends and have a quarter to call home from whatever public telephone they found. Her parents had no way of checking up on her.
I was a teenager in the early 2010s and nearly all of us had cell phones, not necessarily smartphones. My parents could call or text me to check in and I was expected to respond, but they didn't have a way of actively tracking my location.
Now I'm an adult and I see all the parents around me using those nanny apps to actively check their kids GPS location in real time. Living in the Big Brother state has gotta be doing real psychological damage to these kids when they should be starting to experience freedom.
Obvious-Motor-2743@reddit
Parents today are terrible. Helicopter parenting at its finest. I've seen many who are so bad they don't even let their kid walk 5 minutes to the local school.
Let's also not forget when their kid does something wrong and they totally assume their spoiled kid is perfect and will fight everybody else. Just bad parenting.
Nyxelestia@reddit
I came home from school at the ripe old age of 10 years old, I wasn't allowed to leave the apartment until she got home from work, or if she was staying at home over the weekend or on days off. Only then was I allowed to leave the house with a flip-phone for emergencies and expected to be home by either dark (or, during winter, dinnertime). Of course, as long as she was home, then it was free game. I could be out all day long on weekends if she wasn't going out to somewhere far away, I would just need to call at some point around midday to confirm whether or not I would be coming home for lunch. But still, +20 years ago, my friends and I considered it the height of injustice and paranoia that she insisted I not go out unless she was in the house or nearby. As far as all of us were concerned, she was overprotective.
Now, that sounds like an incredible amount of freedom compared to how most kids today grow up.
KellyAnn3106@reddit
We would just leave a note on the kitchen counter with a general idea of where we were going and when we'd be back.
danhm@reddit
Or the classic "went to Mike's house" note even though you were going to Hannah's house to make out while her parents were still at work. If you were smart you'd give Mike a heads up to run interference.
Science670@reddit
Oh yeah, I remember Hannah…
Mis123X@reddit
I grew up in a small village, we just had to be back for supper. No note, and we didn’t have phones so kind of irrelevant. That said, I was always in Komsomol trying to get into university.
QuigonSeamus@reddit
Yes this! There would just be a note with “at the store be back later love ya” written on the back of an envelope on the kitchen table, the natural first stop of the house.
dr_trousers@reddit
Then you would love the old collect call on a pay phone trick. You would use a pay phone and dial the operator and say you would like to make a collect call to a number. Back in the day, the phone recipient would have to agree to accept the charge. So as soon as mom picked but before she was asked to accept the call, you would say "momthemovieisoverpickusupathemall." And hang before any charges were agreed upon.
Wow, key memory unlocked.
Codypupster@reddit
The ol' "Bob Wehadababyitsaboy"
Casswigirl11@reddit
I actually love having my husband's location at all times. He drives for work so it's nice to know where he is, if he's on his way home etc. He has mine too and it's never felt invasive, we mostly just check if the other is on their way home from work so we can get dinner ready or whatever. The only bad situation was when I had to pick up a specialty medication from the actual hospital where there is no service and my husband was freaking out thinking I was in the hospital because my location was there but I wasn't answering the phone lol.
rustybrazenfire@reddit
May be very niche to certain farming communities and it MIGHT still exist. Corn detasseling. Not sure if it's legal any more but it was most certainly a rite of passage as a short term summer job for 13-14 year olds.
SunshineBLim@reddit
I grew up on a farm in Maine. My dad would hire hs boys to help with haying in the summer.
There were four of us kids, but it was a lot for a 11 yo (and younger) to build a load. We'd help, but it was more pulling the bales so the bigger guy could stack them.
Now my brother (he is on the farm now with his family), just does the big round bales. No need for hs kids.
WildMartin429@reddit
So this rite of passage faded away just about 20 years ago give or take 3 to 5 years as the internet became ever-present.
Standing in line for potentially days in order to get concert tickets. This was a huge cultural rite of passage for decades and then it just stopped when people could order their tickets online.
SunshineBLim@reddit
Yup. Or trying to call the venue to buy tickets and get the busy signal. So you just kept dialing.
Although a couple years ago, my daughter wanted to go see Taylor Swift. It took me 8 hours, 3 devices to get them. But I did! (Thank goodness for an understanding boss who i warned i was going to try to get tickets, and he was a-ok!)
So it was almost like sitting in a line to get tickets. Lol
the-greendale-7@reddit
Making super dumb choices as a teen with zero photographic or video evidence, just memories. Now, everything is recorded and the internet is forever
Remarkable-Tip9548@reddit
Teenagers who get a drivers license will have their parents auto insurance rates go up dramatically in price. Even if there are no added cars for the kid to drive. This makes it a painful decision for many families and commonly the child waits until 18 or even 21 to be licensed. No drivers education in the schools exacerbates this.
At the same time there is public transit in the cities as well as Uber/Lyft and ride-share bikes to take up the slack. Likewise bicycling is popular in the cities and it is infinitely cheaper!!!
Without a license by age 18 many kids have limited employment opportunities.
EmperorGeek@reddit
Moving into your first home you just purchased.
Retinoid634@reddit
Kids moving out for their first apartment in their early 20s. It seems much more common/normal now for young adults to live at home during/after college. Apartments are so expensive, even with multiple roommates. I’m amazed when I think of my first apartments in NYC. It would be so much harder to do today.
shirlxyz@reddit
Cotillions
greendress888@reddit
20 years ago? In the small town I grew up in, the high-schoolers would drag main after football games and on Friday/Saturday nights. Basically everyone was out with their cars and their friends in the cars and we would just cruise Main St. real slow with loud music and hanging out. Hollering at people in other cars, getting food, flirting. It was great. It was a gen X thing (Xennial here, I caught the very last years of this) so after my class graduated, the cops started to shut it down. We were a very big class for the school-72 students, and rowdy lol
NonBinaryKenku@reddit
That was the main attraction for local teens in the small town where I went to college in the late 90s. The college students called it the “Farmer 500” and they cruised all 5 blocks of the main street with a loop back on a parallel road.
jimmyptubas@reddit
What about "Power Hour". When i was 21 in 2002, you could still go out from Midnight to 2 - or whenever bars close in your area - and have 2 hours of legal drinking. There was another version of this where you were suppose to drink 21 shots in 2 hours - that's not what our version was. I sure used those 2 hours to their full advantage though. I do not think you can drink legally in that 2 hour window anymore.
driver004@reddit
I might be wrong, but I don’t see many kids on top of a car hood being pulled by a car any more
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Kids on a car hood??
driver004@reddit
Highly reccomend
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Lol I mean they on top of the car hood as in the front. Lol back yes but never heard of people being on the front..
driver004@reddit
No the hood is on the ground
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Wait you mean car surfing?
driver004@reddit
Do you take a car hood from the junk yard, and you sit in it, then you hold a chain or a rope that’s pulled by a car
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Oh wow!!. That is wild..I need to see this
driver004@reddit
Wanna come chill in the boring ass heartland of America I’m down.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Lol always. Wild what people will do. The creativity of kids and teens boggles the mind.
driver004@reddit
And farmers and this unregulated land
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Lol I have enjoyed this conversation. Definitely enlightened me..thanks for sharing. Have a good one!
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
True
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Lol I'm even more confused..I need to Google this..I am so interested in this.
Successful_Nature712@reddit
No more skiing or sledding behind cars or trucks either. It wasn’t safe but it was fun
ElleM848645@reddit
A couple teenagers died last year doing the sledding thing behind a car. Slammed into a tree.
driver004@reddit
My dad the engineer once said that he could most certainly build a house which was totally safe, but living in it would be hell
King_Ralph1@reddit
Some things are better left in the past.
driver004@reddit
Nah nobody remembers how to have fun
QueenZod@reddit
Cow tipping!
Dangerous-Art-Me@reddit
Getting your DL the day or week you turn 16.
Paying for your own car insurance.
Moving out for good when you turn 18.
ChampionshipBetter91@reddit
Driver's license.
Lived in a rural place, and it meant serious freedom.
UraniumGoesBoom@reddit
Rooting for the Yankees
UraniumGoesBoom@reddit
Y2K anxiety
bookluvr83@reddit
Chicken pox...there's a vax for that now
helloitsmejenkem@reddit
The first cigarette.
checkerlily@reddit
Car break downs in the middle of nowhere with no cell phones. Lots of scary adventures.
checkerlily@reddit
Trying to agree on movies with boyfriend/girlfriend at the video store.
AtrumAequitas@reddit
Purchasing a house? It happened for many, if not most. Now it’s a big maybe.
yeetskeetleet@reddit
I think it used to be significantly more common for people to move out after they graduate high school, or turned 18
Now it seems a bit cruel actually to make your kid move out at that point
304libco@reddit
I think that was like a limited time. Like from the late 60s through 80s. My parents generation nobody moved out unless they were getting married and then even sometimes in somebody would move into somebody’s parents House LOL. Or maybe that’s just poor people. After they got married, my parents lived with my grandparents for at least four years.
GreatWentGin@reddit
It was still affordable in the late 90s. I graduated high school in 1996 and me and all of my friends moved out within 1-2 years of turning 18.
The apartment I lived in before I bought my house was $600 a month for a huge 3 bedroom!! That was 1998.
LilHoneyBee7@reddit
Everyone I knew in the 90s moved out by the time they were 18 or 19. We didn't live alone but usually got a crappy apartment with a few roommates or a boyfriend or girlfriend.
I moved out of my mom's house when I was 16 in 1994 (obviously I wasn't on the lease because I was a minor) and lived with my boyfriend and another roommate. I think our rent was $375 a month. I also only made $4.25 an hour working in fast food so we struggled but survived.
Most young people now don't want to struggle. I don't blame them but it was normal back then. I couldn't wait to leave home though. I wanted my own space and my mom was happy to have me leave.
304libco@reddit
She must people I know didn’t do that until they’re 20s. Everybody was in college when they were 18 19, 20, 21 so they were still living at home when they weren’t away at college.
Ok-Sport-5528@reddit
I was in college, too, but while I was working full-time and paying for my own apartment. When you grow up poor, you don’t always have that opportunity to go off to college. I worked to pay for community college and my apartment. I couldn’t get student loans because my parents and I didn’t get along so I couldn’t get their financial info/documentation for FAFSA.
304libco@reddit
Also, the fact that you were able to go to school and work full time and be able to pay for an apartment is mind blowing.
Ok-Sport-5528@reddit
I worked a lot of overtime to pay for all of that. It was a very stressful time and I didn’t get a lot of sleep because I was doing homework until 2:00AM many nights. I did my associate’s, bachelor’s, and master’s degrees all while working between 50-60 hours a week! 🥵 I did take some time off between each degree though.
304libco@reddit
I worked for the promise scholarship program and it was and I opened the experience how many kids had problems with parents who wouldn’t even fill out the FAFSA or even if they did refused to assist in anyway with college
Ok-Sport-5528@reddit
I work in a career and education program that helps young adults find career paths and we run into this issue fairly often. I hate that many of them have to wait until they turn 24 to get assistance.
LilHoneyBee7@reddit
My friends were a bunch of burnouts and hoodrats so most didn't go to college. I didn't go to college until I was 22 and I'm one of the few in my circle that actually did.
It's probably more of a where you grew up thing. We were all poor kids from shitty homes so I guess that wouldn't be considered the standard. I don't know really, it's just my experience.
Bawstahn123@reddit
>I think that was like a limited time. Like from the late 60s through 80s. My parents generation nobody moved out unless they were getting married and then even sometimes in somebody would move into somebody’s parents House LOL. Or maybe that’s just poor people. After they got married, my parents lived with my grandparents for at least four years.
My family was working-urban-poor (in Boston MA), and back in the 40s and 50s and 60s, the family would pool together to buy an apartment in a three-decker (three story apartment building) whenever one of the young adults got married.
Before the clan got priced out of Boston entirely, "we" owned almost an entire street of three-deckers
freshboss4200@reddit
How did they get priced out if they owned the whole block?
Bawstahn123@reddit
Property taxes increasing with "urban renewal" (gentrification)
Ok-Sport-5528@reddit
I think it was still pretty common in the 90s though, too. I had my own apartment at 18 then and so did some of my friends. The economy was booming at that time and decent paying jobs were fairly easy to find, even at 18. I got a job a few weeks after I graduated high school at an insurance company, a job that an 18 year old with no experience would never get hired for today.
YourGuyK@reddit
Yep. My parents tell the story of how in the early 70s my mom had an apartment just down the street from my dad's parents' house where he still lived. Apparently he would sneak back home early in the morning and everyone just sort of went along with it.
yeetskeetleet@reddit
Yeah I guess I forgot that 20 years ago was still the 2000s lol
AnimusFlux@reddit
I feel bad that most young people these days don't get to establish their indepedance until they're around 30 nowadays. That's a lot of life spent negotiating your footprint around your parents.
It was glorious being 17 and already having total control over my life in the early 2000s. As hungry and scared as I often was, I wouldn't trade it for anything. It taught me I could survive on my own and build on own world on my terms. I wish more 20-somethings had that now.
Subvet98@reddit
From the 60s to the 90s a young person had a lot more opportunities to jobs.
filkerdave@reddit
It used to be possible for people to afford that. Now even grown-ass adults in their 30s and 40s with full-time jobs need roommates.
captaincheem@reddit
Its cruel because it's impossible to afford
Able_Celery_8878@reddit
It's less that they don't want to move out and way more that they can't afford to in most parts of the US.
turd_fergusons@reddit
Awkwardly approaching someone in person to ask them out and feeling the joy and or sadness when they accept or decline. Now kids just text each other.
merciful_goalie@reddit
Going out and getting wasted to the point of near death when turning 21
Icy_Helicopter_9624@reddit
Buying your first home at a certain age.
ReadyDirector9@reddit
Asking a father for their daughter’s hand in marriage.
jane2857@reddit
I bet a lot of teenagers don’t want to be seen in a beater car. My kids are in their 30s and 40s and oldest had beater cars or a truck. They went to a private school where most kids were well off and drove nice cars. They were there on scholarships and beaters were all we could afford. Even if we could have afforded better we would have gotten a big safe older car and they purchased their own used but newer cars once out of college and working. My daughter had no interest in driving and I told here I was not driving her to college classes. She still prefers to be driven.
AWTNM1112@reddit
It was more like 30 years ago. My kids didn’t get a phone until they got a license. Otherwise, they could call me from their friend’s house.
1Fully1@reddit
Keg parties in fields.
whatthepfluke@reddit
Turning 18 and buying a pack of squares and going to a strip club. Now you can die for your country at 18 but can't buy smokes or get a lap dance.
My son recently turned 18 and said "Man, I can't do anything new other than be tried as an adult."
Repulsive-Bus-6970@reddit
Using a paper map to get somewhere. Now we just yell at our phones instead of folding a giant map in the car.
jgnp@reddit
1986-1992
Summer was our parents left for work in the morning and we got on our bikes and rode entire miles away and usually went to a creek or a pond. Activities there: farting around with somebody’s uncle’s old spear fishing gun, carving our names in anything and everything (huge cringe today), catching crawdads and fish, bring random meat from the freezer and try to cook it all over fire in the goddamn woods in JULY, digging holes in the ground to make forts that a goddam D7 dozer could’ve fallen into, fireworks, gunpowder, improvised fireworks, bb guns, co2 pistols, matches.
It’s astonishing we never had PHOS-CHEK dropped on us for catching the oak prairie on fire or lost a limb or flat out died. I still look back on the majority of it fondly. We had a reasonable code of ethics, we learned a lot of things the hard way, got plenty of scars, fully devoured by mosquitoes multiple times.
Totally not a thing today. So I cashed out my 401k and bought an insane erosion prone series of creeks scouring through Missoula flood deposits on a tributary of the Columbia River and my kids can go wherever they want here and I’m not breaking any laws. There are stinging nettles here and food at every jog of the newly trampled path.
New-Process-52@reddit
Helloo
GalenOfYore@reddit
Celebrating one's first legal job at 16 y/o! Oh, the elation!
SlumClogMillionaire@reddit
Sex and cigarettes
Efficient-Panic3506@reddit
being unreachable. like fully, genuinely unreachable for hours. no texts, no location, no “where are you??” just “be back before dark.” that used to be normal, now it almost feels weird
God_Bless_A_Merkin@reddit
It’s a little more than 20 years ago but, back in the 90s, when a young man turned 14, there was a ceremony held at local churches. The young men, one by one, having shed themselves of their nether garments, would straddle a contraption comprised of a fly swatter attached to a rat trap. They were then required to tell a joke. If the laughter of the audience in the church pews reached a certain decibel level, the young man was deemed an adult, and his ordeal was complete. If, however, the laughter was insufficient to tip the meter, the fly-swatter-rat-trap would be triggered to slap him squarely in the cojones and he would be forced to repeat the ceremony. If, after the third iteration, the laughter was still insufficient, the young man was nevertheless admitted to adult society, but great shame was attached to it and it was rare for that to happen.
ReceptionOk3205@reddit
What in the ever loving fuck kinda cult were u a part of!!? Upper Midwest U.S here & went to church as a youth & this is some wild sounds like bullshit stuff…. Please expand upon this fable & tell us who should b incarcerated…
choglin@reddit
Getting a pager
Fun-Confidence-6232@reddit
Retirement
weedtrek@reddit
The day I turned 18 I had a smoke in the bar with my mom as we played video poker.
Holiday-Meringue-101@reddit
Parents not knowing where you really are at vs where you said you were at.
Small-Professor-7015@reddit
Getting fucked up on your 21st bday. I’m a bartender and the kids these days come out with parents and siblings and drink responsibly and leave early. I love this shift in de-romanticizing alcohol.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
Having your parents buy you a car. A lot of kids these days aren't that interested in learning to drive, and even if you can, it's rare for your parents to able to afford a car for you with how expensive they are these days
El_Polio_Loco@reddit
The only people I knew who's parents bought them a car were the richest assholes in a school of rich kids.
Most people just get whatever hand-me-down came from their fathers who finally got a new car.
My best friend drove an 87 Caravan in high school.
Nyxelestia@reddit
The problem being that now, most families are not upgrading because new cars or expensive, or often relying on selling an older car to help pay for the new one. Even shitty old cars are getting expensive on the open market. Never mind the cost of adding a teenager to your insurance plan. (And while the sudden spike of gas prices is very recent, they've been steadily crawling upwards for the last decade or so anyway.)
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
Yes. Even used cars are more expensive than they used to be.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
Not a new car. An old piece of shit. And often only half of one.
My parents paid half of the $1200 for an old clunker, as was common practice when I grew up. Twenty years old, 170k miles on it, it died after maybe three years, but it was still a car.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
What are you talking about a lot of kids.are not interested in driving?
Cars are that expensive?
oharacopter@reddit
I'm 25 and didn't get my license until 23, since I didn't have a car it made no difference to me. I only bought a car once I started my first full time job. It was $16k for a 7 year old car, which was the cheapest I could find that had new enough safety technology. It's not easy to save up that kind of money from a part time job.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
How did you get around?
It made not diffence having a car. You didn't get a full time job till you were 25?
So you had part time jobs for 8 years?
Sorry just trying to figure that out. Where did you live?
oharacopter@reddit
Orange County CA, I was mostly focused on school. When I was 20-21 I had a part time job at my dad's employer, so I just tagged along with him. Then I was a caregiver for a family member at home. When I was 22-23 I worked at my college and needed to travel to nearby schools, I was able to just bike within 45 minutes to each location. Then at 24 I got an internship which turned into a full time opportunity. A car would've made things a bit easier but it wasn't that necessary for me and I didn't have the money yet.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Wow that is wild. I had to have a car. It was hard getting a car. I just saved up for my car n bought it. Saved up since I was 15. I was 20 when I bought it and got license at 19..didn't have a license till than to save money. Worked every summer in high school and worked in college and just saved and saved.
Firm-Tell-3172@reddit
i bought my own clunker at 17
techtchotchke@reddit
Even pre-recession this was rare. None of my friends had their parents buy them a car; if they had a car it was usually their parents' old car that they had to share with their siblings. I turned 16 in 2006 and got a 90s-era hand-me-down car from my grandparents that they were planning on selling for parts if I didn't want it. My experience felt pretty typical.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
It might be a regional thing? I grew up in the Midwest. If you didn't have a car, you couldn't go anywhere. And there were plenty of 20 year-old shitboxes to go around
Vanifest0@reddit
Writing a check
Vanifest0@reddit
Creating a password less than 8 characters
Smolmanth@reddit
Not a specific thing but definitely being able to do dumb cringy stuff with your friends without it being filmed/photographed.
We even got to be cringy online without our faces being attached to our interactions there.
Successful_Nature712@reddit
Learning to drive a standard shift car. As a middle aged woman, I can’t imagine not knowing how to drive one and yet so many people these days have no idea how. At least 1/2 my friends drive standard shift cars so they are out there.
Please learn, if you don’t know how how, so you aren’t stuck one day and have to learn on the fly or be stuck!
pxystx89@reddit
Tbf quite a few major brands have discontinued the manufacturing of stick shift/standard shift vehicles. Honda being a big one.
BigRedBK@reddit
Yes! I had to have my dad drive it home and taught me the next day (although it took about a month to be comfortable and not stall out).
Funny thing is I wasn’t even planning on buying a stick shift. But there were about 10 nearly-identical cars on the lot for the same price… Nine were the base model and automatic. One was the sportier version, fully loaded, but stick. I think I made the right choice.
I still occasionally rent a stick on Turo to make sure I still got it. I still do. You never unlearn that.
Successful_Nature712@reddit
It’s one of the best skills to have. It’s gotten me, and quite of few of my friends’ cars, out of some sticky situations. No one ever expects the blonde Barbie girl to know how to drive a standard lol Daddy taught her well
sean8877@reddit
My wife kept our old 22 year old car because it's a standard. I was hoping she would want the newer car we bought but she wants the old one for herself because it's a standard haha. So definitely a lot of people prefer it.
Successful_Nature712@reddit
They do! You can get new cars today in a standard. Most of them are sportier or more SUVs but they are out there. My 75 year old mother would NOT let me convince her to buy an automatic when she bought a new car 3 years ago. She is a menace on the road but at least I convinced her to buy a little bright red Subaru hatchback so she is safe and everyone else can see her coming lol
Common-Charity9128@reddit
Personal stereos, MP3s, and pretty much anything that gave noise.
Video killed radio star, and Internet killed Video, I guess.
ellelaylu@reddit
Maybe getting dropped off at the mall?
ElleM848645@reddit
The mall in my area is still booming.
Firm-Tell-3172@reddit
The existence of malls in general
Xiaxs@reddit
Personally I don't see a lot of kids nowadays getting something like GTA or CoD despite being in middle school.
Idk, it's been a while since I was in middle school but I even remember my mom telling me not to tell people she bought me Black Ops 2 when I was 16 lol.
I think they're more likely to be getting robux or Fortnite Battle Passes than brand new games. Lucky parents haha it's cheaper than CoD
isnoice@reddit
First time homeownership.
Airlik@reddit
A weekend road trip where you’d leave in the car with friends, and no way of contacting your parents easily until you got back. I think that would make most modern parents go crazy.
Hot_Depth_3367@reddit
I'm pretty sure this generation is having sex for the first time years later then previous few generations...from what I understand.
paka96819@reddit
In Hawaii, under 18 yo are required to take Driver’s Ed class and road class. And they restrict times you can drive and I think your passengers are regulated.
harpejjist@reddit
Pinning. Giving school rings. Giving school letterman jackets.
Young men in high school or college would have a pin, ring or jacket and they would give them to their girlfriend to wear. It was the equivalent of a promise ring.
secret_aardvark_420@reddit
Homeownership
Many-River-1064@reddit
In 2006 people were still holding onto their landlines in case cell phones went down. Now I don't know anybody with one.
funny_bunny33@reddit
Hazing
froction@reddit
My birthday was on a Saturday that year, so I had to wait until age 15 years and 2 days!
jessek@reddit
Kids don’t drink as much as they used to and have little interest in getting driver’s licenses, at least that’s what people I know who are parents or teachers tell me.
Itsabouttimeits2021@reddit
I'm around teachers and worked with teens and parents that is odd..guess it is where you at.
Open-Neighborhood459@reddit
Interesting I heard the opposite
jessek@reddit
Two words, some numbers, opinion safely ignored.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
The price of alcohol and the legalization of weed is kind of killing the alcohol industry.
jessek@reddit
I think decades of craft brewers pushing IPAs has turned off kids to beer, too. The ones who do drink prefer things like seltzers and teas.
come-join-themurder@reddit
The walk of shame back to the gas station to pay the overage when you accidentally put more than the amount of gas you paid for
gunsmithdavid@reddit
Might just be a southern thing. Defiantly lost the right of passage going hunting and getting their first deer.
PrincessWolfie1331@reddit
Longer than 20 years ago, but I miss the days just being out and about with no phones knowing you had to be back in the house before dark. I'm still convinced the 90's were only 20 years ago, though.
Brewer1056@reddit
Having a job.
RogerRabbot@reddit
Bullying. Back in the day it was limited, and generally more on the physical side. It was also normally one person and their small posse. Standing up to your bully was seen as heroic in a way. Now it takes on a much more psychological form which feels a lot more sinister. Its not limited to the schools or playgrounds or by size, and you end up with a lot more bullies targetting you. And they can be a lot more personal.
GauntletVSLC@reddit
The summer road trip after you get your license.
69Nova468@reddit
Getting accepted to the gang for banging the the next door girl
Science670@reddit
Beer bongs
Ponchyan@reddit
Losing one’s virginity.
Buying your first legal drink.
Getting your own apartment.
Getting married.
Buying your own car.
Getting your first salaried job.
Buying a business suit
HappyCar19@reddit
My 22 year old hasn’t bothered to get a license. Walks or takes the rare Uber where he needs to go. My 20 year old just got her license because her summer internship requires her to drive.
One_Recover_673@reddit
The first smoke. With your skateboarding buddies at the strip plaza…before that in the square showing off the car …you didn’t like it, it was peer pressure, you thought it looked cool…gone
One_Recover_673@reddit
Snipe hunt
FolsgaardSE@reddit
Losing your virginity around Prom night or before college.
Never knew anyone who wasn't a virgin before college or at least didnt talk about it. At most saw a couple or two who gave kisses senior year. In a class of 1500 people even that was rare.
This is in a metro area too and not super religious.
Obvious_Field_2716@reddit
21? Wow!
greenmtnfiddler@reddit
First pair of nylon stockings was juuuust barely still a thing then.
Synaps4@reddit
Prank calls and doorbell ditching are both gone.
Hey_Laaady@reddit
Cruising the Main Street in town
GrahamCrackerCereal@reddit
Owning a house in your 20s
Odd-Tell-5702@reddit
Exchanging class rings with your bf/gf
SassyMoron@reddit
Getting in a fistfight in high school is something most men my age and older did and I don't think many kids these days do
NateNMaxsRobot@reddit
Getting shitfaced on your 21st birthday. I’m thankful that teens/young adults are going the weed route vs the alcohol route.
jrhawk42@reddit
Your first nudie mag.
thomsenite256@reddit
This is actually a decent one although 20 years ago the internet was already pretty pervasive but 30 years ago certainly.
13moman@reddit
Define decent.
Efficient-Scale-1485@reddit
Is this still a thing? I need to beat off to things that don't have a camera pointed at me
pudding7@reddit
The stash in the woods.
EggieRowe@reddit
Learning to drive. I'm constantly shocked by the number of high school graduates who not only don't drive, but simply can't. I live in the South and there are very few areas where you can get around reliably without a car.
filkerdave@reddit
I'm constantly shocked by the number of adults who simply can't drive. Most of them have Utah plates on their cars.
EggieRowe@reddit
I'm afraid NC would tell Utah to hold it's beer...
filkerdave@reddit
I used to live in NC. They got nothing on Utah.
yzerizef@reddit
Growing up in Wyoming, we always blamed the “Greenies” from Colorado. But maybe that’s dependent on where in the state you are. I could see western Wyoming complaining about Utah while Laramie/Cheyenne/Casper complain about Colorado drivers. No qualms with the other neighbors!
filkerdave@reddit
The Colorado plates in western Wyoming aren't terrible, honestly.
As bad as the Utah drivers are here they're even worse when they're on their home turf! When we were in SLC a few weeks ago, it was madness.
The-Cursed-Gardener@reddit
Being able to afford to live alone in your late teens/ early 20’s.
tcmits1@reddit
Son’s going to the bar with dad after turning 21.
The12th_secret_spice@reddit
Learning how yo fix your family computer because you downloaded porn…or corrupted music file from a shady site.
Having to talk to a parent of a love interest or friend when calling their house.
Summoning the courage to ask your crush out to their face.
Sleepovers seem to be non existent now
xrayeyes7335@reddit
Having a job after school and summers to build character, people skills and learn the value of a dollar
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
For many kids but not me that meant trying out smoking. I think smoking is a lot less popular so maybe it's not such a big deal anymore.
strawb9@reddit
They just vape now. It's the same thing but with more nicotine.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
It's not the same at all.
Smoking looked cool as fuck, vaping looks stupid as fuck.
gujwdhufj_ijjpo@reddit
Less tar more formaldehyde
eyepocalypse@reddit
And in limited edition flavors and colors!
Jdawn82@reddit
Home ownership
1Negative_Person@reddit
Modern tech really cuts down on the harmless mischief. We used to drive around and steal all of the Open House and For Sale signs from multiple neighborhoods, and sneak into one of the gated communities and put them all in one yard. Can’t do that shit now. Everyone has Ring Cams.
therealsanchopanza@reddit
Lmao we did this one year with pumpkins and Halloween decorations. Took all the pumpkins in the neighborhood and dropped them all in one guy’s yard
HooptyDooDooMeister@reddit
Thank God.
IneptFortitude@reddit
Yeah man, ruining teenagers’ lives over a prank. Totally worth living in a surveillance state dystopia.
HooptyDooDooMeister@reddit
Yeah, it's like people don't want their stuff stolen or something. Weird.
IneptFortitude@reddit
Nobody’s stealing it, if they just put it in a different yard. If it’s a for sale sign, it’s nobody’s but the realtor, and if you can’t afford a sign you are a bad one. Quit being so selfish and tight assed lmao
HooptyDooDooMeister@reddit
"Hey! Put that back! That's not yours!"
"No! I'm taking it! You're just being selfish!"
Wtf?
IneptFortitude@reddit
Yet somehow you still think cop calling and ruining lives with charges for a sign is worth it
FrenchFreedom888@reddit
That's actually diabolical yo
marshking710@reddit
Maybe more like 30 years ago, but sneaking out after your parents are sleeping, ding-dong-ditch, prank phone calls, and hurricane alley were all the rage when I was a young idiot.
Good_Promotion8883@reddit
Getting a drivers license and driving.
Commercial-Common515@reddit
Smoker’s corner/lot. Ours was the corner across the street. Sometimes they were on school property.
One of my college buildings had built in ash trays, like near the windows. We weren’t allowed to use them at that point…
Serious_Score_4492@reddit
Get a high score at the arcade. Then someone beating your score. Then you only have a 3 letter clue to figure out who beat you.
Duque_de_Osuna@reddit
Trying to figure out how many minutes to buy on a cell phone plan.
LadyMRedd@reddit
Or who to list as your friends and family
MamaLlama629@reddit
Buying scratch offs or cigarettes
southsidekc34@reddit
City chase , riding on pegs , Oklahoma drill , showing up to a rival city’s event and causing mayhem ( and taking their ladies ) , woods ragers and L rides
Good_Briefs@reddit
Hanging out at the mall with friends.
HyperXanadu@reddit
Getting a cell phone
LastDitchTryForAName@reddit
Smoking your first cigarette. Kids vape now.
waveman777@reddit
Couldn’t wait to buy a nice three-piece suit for my son when he graduated college four years back. He looked at me like I was nuts.
Salty-Gas-1172@reddit
Retirement
Gonna_do_this_again@reddit
Keggers in the woods getting busted by cops and everyone running
hairyhandcock@reddit
Going to the store at 1am
3Green1974@reddit
Going in to the back room of a video rental store to rent a porno when you turned 18.
hivemind_MVGC@reddit
Getting laid before 18.
lovelylinguist@reddit
When a lot of people had landlines, it was getting your own bedroom phone.
GeneralELucky@reddit
Moving out/getting your own apartment after college. It’s not uncommon anymore to see people happily living at home well into their upper-20s.
padall@reddit
I know everyone is bringing up the driving thing, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I personally don't think 16 year olds (even younger in some places!) should be driving. I think the driving age should be raised to 18, or maybe 17.5. And yes, I fully recognize it's a pain for parents, but that shouldn't be the deciding factor.
I didn't get my license until I was 24. It wasn't my intention to wait that long, but it just sort of happened that way. I was aided by the fact that I moved to Boston for college, which has a good public transit system.
My father grew up in the country, and even he didn't get his license until he was about 22 (he was driving before then, but that's a different story. Lol).
Anyway, fewer kids on the road can only be a good thing. They are statistically more likely to get into accidents, and driving in general is more dangerous now than it's ever been (more vehicles, and more aggressive drivers). Plus teens are just less mature and less independent these days. The combination of factors is a recipe for disaster.
Bookwoman0247@reddit
Getting a job right out of college. It's because of the economy.
Brave-Variation-7336@reddit
Don't kids still want to go meet each other/make out etc? That was a huge factor in my youth. Grew up in the 60's, 70's.
Individual_Tax_4224@reddit
Buying a house.
DoIt4Dale_3@reddit
Tazmanian devil hip/butt tattoos.
TrustyParrot232@reddit
Buying porn. You used to have to buy it in a store, so you did it when you were old enough, but now everyone gets it free online. If you wanted free porn back in the day, you had to boost it from a gas station
HoselRockit@reddit
Doorbell ditching. Thanks a lot Ring.
the_salsa_shark@reddit
Meeting the friend of a friend in some mcdonalds bathroom to buy shitty ass weed
Gertrude_D@reddit
Trying to win at ding dong ditch on May Day.
I'm guessing most people won't even understand this reference as May Day baskets might be more regional than I realized based on previous comments about this subject.
King_Ralph1@reddit
Someone is keeping score at ding dong ditch? How do you win (aside from not getting caught)?
Gertrude_D@reddit
It's the not getting caught thing.
Pitiful_Fox5681@reddit
I hadn't thought of that effect of the doorbell cameras everyone seems to have now, but you're right.
Responsible_Side8131@reddit
After school job
ChiSchatze@reddit
Long road trips with friends. On purpose not just because you couldn’t afford flights.
idiot_sauvage@reddit
parallel parking. or really driving with any awareness that youre not the only car on the road.
Val-E-Girl@reddit
Getting your drivers license at 15 or 16 (depending on the state)
Moving out of the house as soon as you graduate.
ChartMaster1@reddit
Having the custom Corvette you built in Auto Shop get stolen, tracking it to Vegas, and banging Annie Potts in a van behind Circus Circus...
CoolAbdul@reddit
Cruising
gmanose@reddit
Getting a drivers license. The number of young people today who have no interest in driving is astounding to me.
Tia_is_Short@reddit
Honestly? Good. We need to get rid of our car-centric lifestyles. Public transportation is vastly superior.
Pitiful_Fox5681@reddit
Prank calls. Ubiquitous caller ID means fewer successful calls for Seymour Heine on the intercom.
Tia_is_Short@reddit
*47?
WonderfulVariation93@reddit
It seems like getting your drivers license. Kids (at least in suburbia) don’t seem to care as much about it at 16.
CthuluHoops@reddit
Is highschool initiation still a thing?
muphasta@reddit
Walking across the gym to ask someone to dance at a high school dance.
Tia_is_Short@reddit
What makes you think this doesn’t happen anymore?
NoseDesperate6952@reddit
Riding your bike off a ramp in the street with your friends
KevRayAtl@reddit
Blood brothers; both people cut palms and shake hands, mixing their blood.
Relative_Roof4085@reddit
Hitch hiking
kevinlc1971@reddit
TP’ing houses
coolboysclub@reddit
Hazing seems to be on its way out
thirdeyefish@reddit
Out of the house, on the road, out of contact. No GPS, no ability to call someone at any given moment. Payphones and maps were still everywhere. Yes, we had mapquest and GPS recievers did exist. So did cell phones. But being off the grid with a paper map was very much still a thing 20 years ago.
stoolprimeminister@reddit
halloween
AdmiralChancey@reddit
Being able to afford your own place once you start working full time. When I first got out of high school in 2011 and got my first full time job I was super excited about getting and apartment with my friends and it became apparent very early that it wasnt going to happen unless you had family who afford could sign on the lease for you.
No_Entertainment1931@reddit
Moving out of a parents home at 18
thomsenite256@reddit
I dont know that enough has changed in 20 years to give any good answers.
Jfonzy@reddit
Finding someone’s porn stash in the woods or along a railroad track
Bitter_Ad8768@reddit
Getting a driver's license at 16 used to be a pretty big deal. A lot of teenagers now seem unbothered by it. Some don't actually bother to get a license until they're 18 now.
filkerdave@reddit
You couldn't get a full license at 16 where I grew up! And you could only get one at 17 if you'd taken and passed Driver Ed.
filkerdave@reddit
Having the freedom to wander as a child. Nowadays parents have their college kids on a shorter leash than I had when I was in elementary school. My parents never knew where I was. Not because they didn't care (they did and still do!) but because they were willing to let me have fun and make mistakes.
bramblefish@reddit
self sufficiency
pmonichols@reddit
Anything about disobeying your parents. I'd hate to be a kid today. LOL!
Zigglyjiggly@reddit
Getting a driver's license
Yeahboyeah@reddit
Discretionary income.
star6uster@reddit
Fishing
possums101@reddit
I don’t think fishing is really a national rite of passage.
star6uster@reddit
I don’t think sneaking out is a rite of passage. Fishing and hunting used to signify you’ve come of age.
possums101@reddit
Sneaking out happens in every corner of the country. Not everyone lives close to a body of water for fishing.
MrLongWalk@reddit
That’s not rare today
HappyGimp@reddit
Getting a Driver's license at 16
Hikeback@reddit
Older than 20 years ago for sure - the panty raid.
buttchugreferee@reddit
finding a box of porn in the woods
ajwest927@reddit
Moving out of your parents place when you turn 18.
I_Weep_for_Willow@reddit
Getting drunk with your uncles.
knightni73@reddit
Not me thinking about the 90s, then realizing it was 2006. 🤯
OldDogWithOldTricks@reddit
Fighting your bully.
Background-Passion50@reddit
Getting a stretch limousine for proms or formals or even weddings. Stretch limousines are just not as common anymore. Most luxury car services these days use luxury sedans like the Volvo S90 and Mercedes Maybach S680 or luxury SUVs like the Cadillac Escalade or GMC Yukon XL. This is for two reasons. The first is that stretch limousines come with a variety of maintenance and QOL issues in addition to the exuberant cost to stretch a vehicle in the first place. And the second is people who use limo services these days regularly don’t have dedicated drivers like they used to but, rather their company or firm will have several approved luxury car services that drive everyone from the CEO, to guests, to senior staff, to young and hopeful hiring candidates to demonstrate employee comfort. Source: I work for and network with a lot of luxury car services and booking agencies for luxury travel.
Stretch limousines still exist. But, fewer and fewer large companies employ them. Our 600 vehicle fleet doesn’t have a single stretch anymore and when people call to specifically ask for one my dispatchers will refer them to one of our independent operators who still own one. Some still use them for weddings or proms but, nine times out of 10 these days they’re perfectly fine with a luxury sedan or SUV.
ionmoon@reddit
Seems like people don’t know what a rite of passage is. But okay.
mxremix@reddit
Home ownership
GotchUrarse@reddit
Sadly, agree.
Schlechtyj@reddit
Stealing your older brother’s Playboy. Or stealing a porn mag from the 7-11. Passing a centerfold around folded up in a textbook. Most of the boys in my neighborhood did something like this.
cofeeholik75@reddit
Getting your drivers license at 16.
Honest_Road17@reddit
Getting a drivers license.
BenjaminMatlock_Esq@reddit
From what I read, fewer kids are getting their license at 16.