Why did Spirit fail? Too many passengers hated flying it
Posted by MadBrown@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 233 comments
This is a well-written piece with qualifiers to the claims being made. Example:
Claim: The airline hadn’t been profitable since before the pandemic.
Qualifier: Spirit has repeatedly warned investors in recent years it wasn’t sure it could stay in business – well before the United States and Israel went to war with Iran.
The writer says the war just accelerated what was inevitable.
imbasicallycoffee@reddit
Makes sense. I could always afford a major airline even at a price hike so I never needed to fly Spirit but it's reputation as being generally awful to its customers was something that wasn't some secret.
I will miss that livery though. Nice pop of color in an otherwise white washed industry. Especially in the northeast.
Specialist_Fan5866@reddit
Anecdote, but I flew spirit once because it was the only flight available when booking last minute. I hated it. The plane was dirty. There was a napking with god-knows-what in it hanging off my tray table. Fees for everything. Didn't have problems with the staff, but I didn't interact with them much.
I avoided them like a plague after that.
Lieffe@reddit
I don't understand. As a Brit, I've flown Spirit exactly once to New Orleans, as well as Southwestern and a few other US carriers - but the carrier I've flown the most is Ryanair.
I couldn't get my head around why people hated Spirit so much. It was on-time, took me to where I wanted to go, and was relatively comfortable.
By comparison to Ryanair - the drunk people, filth, and awful service on board, Spirit was a breeze. Since I was flying to NOLA on Spirit, I think I'd be able to compare it to the kind of flights I've gotten with Ryanair to party destinations before.
But genuinely it's night and day between what I got on one versus the other. People on the flight commenting about how bad it's about to be, "I know what I'm getting myself into, I've flown Spirit before", I think they'd have a heart attack if they flew Ryanair from Manchester to Alicante.
Barack_Odrama_007@reddit
Lol at Ryanair getting dragged through the mud.
Somehow someway Ryanair continues to be extremely profitable, something spirit could not do
Unrelenting_Salsa@reddit
I never flew Ryanair personally, but yeah, there's a reason why it's only Spirit. The other equivalents do fine so it's not a US problem. Spirit was just shoddily managed and didn't actually understand the market.
Unrelenting_Salsa@reddit
I can't compare to Ryanair, but if it was on time and relatively comfortable, you just got lucky. That's not the typical spirit experience. There's a reason why the number 1 advice for flying spirit was to book a red eye. It maximizes the probability you'll actually make it there because Spirit will just say tough shit if your connecting flight is delayed or cancelled and they can't put you on another one. No meal vouchers. No hotel vouchers. No agreement with other airlines to get you to your destination. If Spirit figures they won't lose a lawsuit for not providing some aspect of customer service, they're not doing it.
Albeit I think the last point is slightly outdated because recently the DOT massively increased what problems are deemed "controllable" and the technical policy was always only give that stuff out for uncontrollable delays and cancellations.
fakesaucisse@reddit
I am glad you said this because I have been wondering if Spirit was really that bad compared to European equivalents or if Americans just don't like ultra low cost carriers. It sounds like it's more of the latter and they would probably hate Ryanair etc just as much.
I have never taken an ULCC but I think I know what I'd be getting for the price going into it. For a quick trip it doesn't seem that bad.
chronos18@reddit
I think it's partly the longer distances/flight times between major US cities compared with Europe. An hour or two on Ryanair is a lot better than 4-5 hours on Spirit even if the actual experience moment to moment is similar.
Difficult-Prior3321@reddit
Absolutely This! I would never pay $300 sometimes $400 more for the exact same flight. Always on time, never had an issue with other passengers. Spirit was great.
IWantAnE55AMG@reddit
I used to fly spirit because it was cheap but my flights were never on time. I always expected there to be at least a one hour delay. The worst was a 7 hour delay and we couldn’t leave the terminal because security had closed for the night so they gave us food vouchers. Finally got in the air at 1am.
CydeWeys@reddit
We have higher standards in the US. Y'all put up with stuff we never would, across a variety of goods and services, not just air travel.
Belfastscum@reddit
People hate on Spirit because it's a meme; same as Ryanair
TheBeavster_@reddit
Americans would never be able to stomach Ryan Air. We have such high expectations as consumers that are illogical when it comes to air travel.
dagelijksestijl@reddit
That and lock in from things like credit cards which the EU regulated out of existence.
WigglingWeiner99@reddit
The one time I flew Spirit was fine. It was around $100 cheaper than AA and for that kind of savings I can pack light. Hell, I sprung for the $35 "Big Front" upgrade since it was still so much cheaper than every other available flight.
The plane was a noisy buzzsaw A320. The seats were not super comfortable. Whatever. I got to my destination for like $75. Probably would't pay for a transcon, but for a light trip it was great.
Comfortable_Yard_968@reddit
Consider how the nature of LCCs in Europe is different than North America, Canada for instance only has Air Canada Rouge which is a leisure sub-brand of the flag carrier and Flair is the only other LCC option among just 5 airlines in that country given the completion laws and regulations are different than a larger US market. Mexico has 3 airlines which is now facing scrutiny surrounding the only 2 LCCs Viva and Volaris both of which each dwarfed Aeromexico. Europe has a lot of LCC variety; consider they have low-cost off-shoots of IAG, Air France-KLM and Lufthansa while there’s long-haul low cost like Level (IAG), Discover (Lufthansa), Norse and French Bee. That being said, consider how most mainline & leisure carriers might survive the Iran crisis for now even with the rumors like JetBlue won’t make it despite being among the newest players in transatlantic using the LR and XLR models of A321.
schwinnJV@reddit
The only real issue I encountered with them was from their lack of a broader airline network + infrequency of routes. I had them booked for a wedding flight on a Friday and they cancelled due to weather at the destination (despite no other cancellations from the numerous other airline flights to the same destination within minutes of my flight) and the soonest flight they had space to rebook me on was after the return flight, since they only had one or two flights per day.
That said, I always said they’re fine if you don’t have much baggage and it’s for a vacation or getaway with a bit of flexibility or you understand the risk that a cancellation means you’ll probably have to do an expensive rebook on a different airline.
davidfliesplanes@reddit
I've flown on Ryanair at least 10-15 times and never had any problems with staff, service, ... Everything always went smoothly. Even the landings lol. The worst aspects were the crying babies and people getting up before the plane reached the gate or having the flight delayed because people wouldn't sit down before take-off. Only happened once though.
Nikonmansocal@reddit
"drunk people, filth and awful service" ... lmao - I have never flown Ryanair (or Spirit for that matter) - is it really that bad?
LogicalProtection303@reddit
No it’s really not, certainly routes have issues with alcohol but that’s every airline to sun destinations in Europe, mostly on time and almost always cheaper, people want Concorde service for pennies
Unrelenting_Salsa@reddit
I did it twice and both times were horrendous. The actual in the air part was fine, nothing anybody would mention outside of spirit having a reputation similar to a waffle house at 3 AM, but waiting in the way too tiny gate for 5 hours because it was delayed but they had no actual ETA and just kept incrementing departure by 10 minutes and switching gates every hour with their backend not updating the gate information? Horrendous. The kind of itinerary changes they tried to spring on me last minute? Horrendous. Waiting for over an hour because they don't actually rent enough gates at the airports they fly out of? Horrendous.
Maybe I was just supremely unlucky I guess, but in my experience all those "on time" charts that spirit faired relatively well in were extremely misleading. When a legacy carrier has a delay it's usually pretty short. The hub and spoke model plus size lets them be pretty judicious about swapping out planes if the delay would be bad and any airline wants high utilization. When spirit has a delay, buckle up buckaroo. They had no contingency plan.
ColdIceZero@reddit
There's a nonzero chance that at least one Spirit flight did, in fact, carry the plague
neverbadnews@reddit
For a fee, of course.
QueefSeekingMissile@reddit
I don't know, I feel like that's more on the customer than the airline.
If you're wrastling armadillers, you best to be having good hygiene habits.
acquaintedwithheight@reddit
Armadillo are vectors for leprosy, prairie dogs are vectors of plague. Cats and opossums are vectors of typhus.
GlitteringYak2207@reddit
And those cute Koalas spreading Chlamydia all over the place😳
QueefSeekingMissile@reddit
Ope! Look at the big brain on this one! What kinda critter do I gotta wrastle to catch smarts from it?
ItsKlobberinTime@reddit
There ain't no T in wrasslin'. You must be one of those highfalutin' Delta types.
TheFlanniestFlan@reddit
Spirit was where you went if you wanted some pet bed bugs.
Crusoebear@reddit
Spirit got their shitty business model from RyanAir across the pond. And RyanAir who strangely enough had originally started out trying to become a normal airline (from a customer service standpoint) & failed - reorganized by basically taking the Southwest Airlines low-cost model except they made everything far, far worse.
I know many people argue in favor of the cheap fares - but the miserable experience that came with it is enough to make the Wright Brothers wish they stuck with bicycles instead of airplanes.
Artistic_Rice_9019@reddit
Spirit was founded before Ryanair.
dagelijksestijl@reddit
How is Ryanair bad? You get exactly what you pay for, their on time performance is good and their safety record is impeccable.
markpb@reddit
I’m not sure many of Ryanair’s passengers would describe the experience as miserable. They’ve been very successful at educating the public about what the fare covers (transport) and what it does not (everything else). The booking process has improved over the years so the extras are easy to spot and avoid if you want.
Once you’re onboard, the staff are fine, the seats are generally fine and you’ve a good chance of making it to your destination safely (because of the fleet age and attention to maintenance) and on-time (because of the use of non-primary airports).
OrangeListel@reddit
I had a similar situation and flew them once to Fort Lauderdale but it was actually totally fine. On time, clean, reasonable price with fees included
But based off what everyone says I assume this is the exception not the rule
Belfastscum@reddit
It's the rule.
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
The issue is more that if Spirit was on time it was fine. But the minute they went to IRROPS it was an absolute nightmare. With such a small fleet that must be utilized at all times they just didn’t have the ability to recover like a legacy can.
trevor_plantaginous@reddit
Depended on the route was my experience. Their LAX-EWR transcontinental flights were quite nice. Usually significantly cheaper and nearly as good. It was a very different experience on the NY-Florida routes.
Metro29993@reddit
No, I actually think the majority of Spirit flights were completely fine. I flew them dozens of times and never had an issue. Hell, my Spirit flights were delayed less than my United flights were. As long as you know what you’re paying for and don’t get convinced into the up charges, their flights were a fantastic deal.
The problem is that they had a higher proportion of unruly passengers that made their public perception pretty bad. It wasn’t even that much higher, but even a few more incidents can change perception significantly. Add to that their barebones offerings (which imo are completely fair for the price point), and most people would rather pay more to fly another carrier.
Personally, I loved my $75 round trip flights to Orlando/Miami and my $150 round trip flights to Cabo/NYC. Never had a flight cancelled due to Spirit’s fault and was never delayed more than an hour. I will say that all I do is sleep on planes and I can sleep just about anywhere, so I would much rather spend more on food/hotels than the flight.
Crafty-Bunch2975@reddit
Ditto. I got burned bad once, that's all it takes. When you have your vacation days wasted by poor communication and you're gaslit about delays and cancellations you stop using that company. I was left to figure out accommodations between the cancellation of my flight and rescheduling the next day after I spent all day in an airport because there was a "mechanical issue that should be fixed shortly". Later I was left without compensation because at 2am it was suddenly a "weather-related cancellation". After that there was no question I would go elsewhere in the future no matter the price.
guynamedjames@reddit
Business travelers also make up a huge chunk of airline revenue and spirit and the other ultra low cost airlines (frontier, etc) were so bad that most companies let you exclude flights from them in travel policy.
I've been at 3 major corporations in travel heavy roles, and every one of them had a policy carve out to pretend the ultra low cost airlines didn't even exist.
Artistic_Rice_9019@reddit
ULCC aim for leisure travelers, not business. It's in the model.
guynamedjames@reddit
And that model led to spirit declaring bankruptcy
Artistic_Rice_9019@reddit
But not other ULCCs.
MadBrown@reddit (OP)
Yeah. You never missed a Spirit plane in the sky. :)
vinvega23@reddit
The Flying Banana.
SidewaysGoose57@reddit
Sorta, before that was Hughes Airwest. "Top Banana in the West" was their slogan.
False-Limit-1017@reddit
I was gonna say, Hughes Airwest planes really stood out!
rnavstar@reddit
School bus
GlitteringYak2207@reddit
Taxi cab
JoeyTheGreek@reddit
Phone book (I’m old)
Disgod@reddit
Waffle House
imbasicallycoffee@reddit
My local regional airport had a Spirit gate and you could always tell when the Spirit plane was coming in. Easiest one to spot even above Southwest sometimes.
Skating_suburban_dad@reddit
Man my last trip with spirit was great. Got hit twice in the head by thick ladies butts (they apologized so all good) and the lady next to me had her mother onboard sitting with smuggled mini booze bottles.
Gonna miss them
Branston_Pickle@reddit
Did you have to pay an extra fee for the butt action
Belfastscum@reddit
Same, the FAs always gave me an extra shooter... Maybe that's why they went under
Penuwana@reddit
The loud traphouse music blaring from the plane helps too
imbasicallycoffee@reddit
Just recovered a good memory thanks... I was booked on Allegient out of Punta Gorda once and it got chartered with a Virgin American flight instead and that was the most POSH flying experience I've ever had. The chill low key house music playing in the cabin on boarding was such a nice welcome.
faster_tomcat@reddit
Ha ha I like how Virgin's first class is called UPPER CLASS. Posh!
Funny_Economy_915@reddit
Trap bus
Direct_Big_5436@reddit
The "Yellow Submarine" of the skies.
Im_Scruffy@reddit
They’re gonna go to the place that’s the best
Capt_Bigglesworth@reddit
*When I die and they lay me to rest…*
alfienoakes@reddit
Well done!
Thatdoobie@reddit
Here at DFW they're just parked out back. Will some other airline buy these planes?
trevor_plantaginous@reddit
I think one thing that isn't getting mentioned is Spirit became a pawn in larger airline/Wall Street strategy. Frontier tried to merge/buy twice (2022 & 2024). JetBlue was essentially trying to do a hostile takeover and I have a strong opinion that they never wanted to buy the airline. They went through the motions to block Frontier and were banking on the gov't blocking it (I'd go so far to say that Jeblue never even sincerely tried to get the acquisition approved). Keep in mind - gov't ok'd Alaska/Hawaiian around the same time but Alaska needed to make concessions - as far as I know Jetblue never offered a single concession. Their position was basically "oh we're totally going to eliminate jobs, eliminate routes, and raise prices". Alaska agreed to keep the Hawaiian livery and maintain routes.
But the exec team was focused on mergers/buyouts/takeovers since 2022 and not really running the company as a viable stand alone business.
JoeyTheGreek@reddit
I’m sad we never got to enjoy Fearit Airlines
heliosythic@reddit
There was never really anything wrong with it that any other airline doesn't also do. People just liked to complain who didn't understand how to properly take advantage of the cheap price requires traveling lighter. Rather than bundle everything into the ticket price they gave the option to select which extras you actually wanted to pay for separately. Bring a backpack (not fully packed to the brim) and fill your water bottle before boarding and its the same experience cheaper.
Thuraash@reddit
I never flew Spirit if I could help it either. Several friends and relatives got stood up by them with cancelled flights. My advice to result and friends was to fly Spirit if you need to get there maybe.
gotmynamefromcaptcha@reddit
Many people fuss and complain about Spirit because when it comes time for Spirit's policies to be applied, ie. a disruption or something, they expect "expensive" airline policies from a super budget airline. Most of which was outlined on their site but many people don't bother to read any policies anywhere so they get shocked and angry when they can't get a refund or end up stranded because the fare doesn't allow re-bookings on other airlines or something else a higher-cost airline might provide.
Spirit truly was a "you get what you pay for" model. And believe me I've been through it myself, when my flight to FL got canceled and I was on the hook to buy my own flight elsewhere to get there. However, I knew that risk before booking so I was prepared. They did at least refund us our tickets on that one.
Anyway, I think the reputation they have isn't 100% deserved. If a ticket is $60, and the next closest option is $200+...there's a reason it's that cheap. Can't expect 4 or 5 star service.
The_GOATest1@reddit
Same, I’ll miss the online entertainment + the fact that at least for consumers on the lower end of the income distribution it gave them options and ultimately put pressure on the majors
Chicken_99@reddit
I feel like Americans just don’t get ULCCs. Either that or the ulccs aren’t doing it right. If you can get a great fare on Ryanair, you know you have to travel with a backpack, not care where you sit and never buy anything onboard. As soon as you start adding extras, you might as well fly BA.
My apologies if I’m wrong, but it seems a lot of people in the states are still surprised by a bare bones service and end up buying the extras, then realising they’ve been had 🤷♀️
Dapper-Comment-682@reddit
i’m asleep on a plane… get woken up to “any drinks sir ?” i’m like, yes just water please… “ok” (she starts to whip out the CC swiper) i just rolled over and pretended to go back to sleep ,
TL:Dr they tried to charge me for water 🤑🤑🤑
oh and coming BACK from vegas they decided my bag was “too big” and unless i paid the $150 or w.e bag fee, my bag was NOT coming with me… (even tho the same sizeand bag came with me out there..) this was the only time i contemplated showing up on an airport breakout video lol
wesleysmalls@reddit
That’s how low cost airlines work
Dapper-Comment-682@reddit
in spirits case, not anymore.. lol
st_nick1219@reddit
Here's the issue with many ULCC's (Spirit, Frontier, Breeze)... some of these airlines only have a handful of flights out of airports in a week. If that flight gets canceled, there is often no other flight with that airline they can rebook you on. If I'm flying a legacy carrier or Southwest, there is often flexibility to get me home if my flight is canceled. If it's not that day, maybe the next. I know too many people that have been stranded and had to pay quite a bit extra to find a flight on another airline when their Spirit/Frontier flight has been canceled. It's just not worth the risk.
musing_codger@reddit
Learned this the hard way. Booked a Spirit flight for the family for a Spring Break trip. Showed up at 5:00 AM Saturday morning only to have them say that they weren't going to fly today. We got in the rebook line. My wife went up to the front of the line and the earliest they had for those people was Wednesday. We said screw it and just drove - 26 hours. We never booked Spirit again.
All that said, blocking Jet Blue from acquiring them was just stupid.
Pbpopcorn@reddit
Or maybe it was a actually blessing for JetBlue…
VictorH2026@reddit
If JB had bought them they’d both be bankrupt
Better_Goose_431@reddit
Spirit would’ve just dragged Jet Blue down with them had that merger gone through
musing_codger@reddit
I trust that Jet Blue had done their due diligence before making their offer, but we'll never know how it would have turned out. It does seem like a regulatory failure in this case.
BLT_Trade_r@reddit
Ya, and another problem is that cheap carriers tend to skimp on things like maintenance or redundant aircraft, which results in more delays. So not only do you have less ability to correct for a delay, you also have more delays happening.
WOKEJEDIFOOL@reddit
I refuse to fly ULCC’s for this reason alone. You save money, but if anything happens then you are shit out of luck. Also, the crowd they attract wasn’t the best.
F0rbiddenD0nut@reddit
I had to drive home from Miami to Cleveland, Ohio once because my flight on Frontier got cancelled and they didn't have another one available for something like 4 days. Never flew on them again after that.
LoornenTings@reddit
Bruh I would have just spent 4 days by the beach
F0rbiddenD0nut@reddit
Would have been nice, but I had already been on a cruise for over a week and I was out of PTO and had to be back at work. Plus another 4 nights at a hotel would have been more expensive than the rental car.
LoornenTings@reddit
4 days by the beach searching Indeed
F0rbiddenD0nut@reddit
Haha, if only.
TenderfootGungi@reddit
This is why we flew Spirit once and never again. We had to book a flight on another airline to get home. There was not another option. Well, there was, earlier in the day. We were in the airport when it departed. They did not cancel our flight until right before boarding time.
MosYEETo@reddit
This. I tried to make this point on the frontier subreddit and I got downvoted into oblivion. I’m not saying ULCCs are bad in any way- quite the opposite actually- but you shouldn’t be booking them if you REALLY need to be somewhere. They just don’t have the route network
Rdubya291@reddit
I've used them a handful of times. And all were for short hops on leisure trips when my wife and I didn't want to drop a lot, but still get away for a little while.
Like a long weekend in Vegas real fast... Maybe I'm not super liquid because I'm waiting for deals to mature through work, or maybe it's just been a rough couple months (this would happen more 6-7 years ago, as compared to now) but it served it's purpose. If we had to miss a flight - bummer, but not the end of the world.
I fly United for everything else - Living close to an airport where they have one of their largest hubs make the flight times and destinations plentiful. For our wedding - United. For business - United. Family vacations - United. If I need to depend on it, it's United.
ZootSuitBanana@reddit
Also dependent on where you're flying from and too. I flew out of DFW many times on Spirit. Never had my flight cancelled, but also most days and locations I flew to had 3 or 4 round trips each day.
Crewman_Guy_Fleegman@reddit
At some point my employer realized this and went through and outright disabled our ability to book any ULCC, thankfully.
resilindsey@reddit
Yeah, I know what I'm getting with ULCC. It's not pleasant, but I'm fine with bare-bones for ultra-cheap in certain short-leg flights where I don't need more than a day bag. I know what I'm paying for and I'm okay with it.
But the caveat is as long as it's timely, efficient, and the reliability is there (I know sometimes it's stuff outside of their control but for most customers it's all the same). One experience like this is enough to have someone swearing them off forever.
E.g. I feel like that was the appeal of Southwest (earlier when they were still in the low-cost market). It was pretty bare-bones (for the time), and it had a wonky boarding system, but they were reliable and on-time and cheap.
It seems like Spirit's on-time rate climbed rapidly in the last few years (likely cause cutting more routes), but I remember not too long ago they were seen as one of the worst.
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NewSinner_2021@reddit
Didn't the CEO say it was the oil prices / jet fuel cost ?
ILikeFlyingMachines@reddit
Eh. Nobody likes flying with Ryanair, they are still one of the most successful airlines.
For low-cost carriers it doesn't matter if people love it as long as they are cheap
ThomasDeLaRue@reddit
Spirit was great, the people who flew spirit sucked. It was the passengers that made it bad IMO.
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
Jon Ostrower has a similar piece up, actually posted prior to the shutdown, that makes a similar argument.
Times were good for Spirit until they weren’t. At that point they couldn’t weather the post-COVID economic environment the same as other larger airlines. To borrow the phrase, “United caught a cold, Spirt caught the flu.”
As he notes, UA/DL/AA could leverage their loyalty programs and premium cabins to drive increased revenue to offset offering basic economy on their existing fleet. Basically they could offer the best of both worlds by offering a handful of ULCC fares bolted onto full service fleets.
anonymous4071@reddit
Your last paragraph highlights what really did Spirit in.
Things were just fine pre pandemic, but in the post Covid market when business travel fell off significantly, the big three began offering basic fares and poached Spirits customer base.
And being able to offer those basic fares with the operational protections of a big 3 made it much more difficult for Spirit to compete.
Add on the PW engine issues kneecapping their growth plans and here we are.
john_le_carre@reddit
Bang on.
Spirit could only compete on price. The US network is dense and highly connected, with lots of point-to-point flights offered by legacies, Alaska, JBU, etc.
In Europe the legacies only do hub-and-spoke. Want a direct flight? Your only choice is RyanAir or EasyJet.
InvisibleBuilding@reddit
Why don’t/can’t the legacies in Europe do what the US ones do and compete with Ryanair like the US ones competed with Spirit?
t-poke@reddit
I don't think they want to.
Ryanair and the ULCCs have the "get people to and from vacation" network. The legacies have the "get people to and from other continents via our hubs" network.
The legacies do pick up some low hanging fruit, you can never have too much capacity on something like a London to Mallorca route, but they seem content leaving much of the point to point vacation flying to the ULCCs.
The real money maker is a multi-thousand dollar biz class seat to New York or Tokyo. They'd rather use their narrowbody capacity to get passengers to their hubs and onto those flights.
Isodrosotherms@reddit
In Europe the legacies are also competing with the high speed rail network, which for short-haul spoke flights offer similar (or better) door-to-door travel times at higher frequencies and costs similar or better than the legacy airline. Anyone who is just interested in traveling between, say, Paris and Marseille, is not going to schlep out to de Gaulle and deal with that vortex of suck. The only reason someone is on that flight is to get to and from an intercontinental hub.
Compare Paris/Marseille to Chicago/St. Louis. Broadly similar distances and metro area populations. On Friday, according to Google Flights, there’s 24 non-stop flights between Chicago’s two airports and St. Louis. There’s only 11 flights between Paris’s airports and Marseille. But there’s 27 daily TGV departures, each one with double the capacity of an A320. (There’s five Amtrak departures on the analogous route).
john_le_carre@reddit
Trains are part of the equation, but not entirely.
Consider flights from Berlin to Barcelona. Both are medium-sized cities with good economies. There’s no reasonable train connection — it would take over 24 hours by rail.
In the US, such a connection would be served by at least two “standard” carriers. But it’s only offered by EasyJet, Vueling, and Ryanair. No legacies serve the route at all.
dagelijksestijl@reddit
Berlin is a bit of a weird case where the airport’s management is in an abusive relationship with Lufthansa which doesn’t want to make it compete with DUS, FRA and MUC, yet the airport keeps pushing away airlines who want to expand there.
john_le_carre@reddit
Oh, good point. Berlin is always a damn outlier.
Dang it, I just wanna go on vacation!
InvisibleBuilding@reddit
Sure - so why? I flew Sevilla-Barcelona (the train is not direct) on Vueling. Well, that’s owned by IAG so in a sense it’s a legacy, but why not just be on Iberia the way in the US it’d be on Delta?
john_le_carre@reddit
No idea! The EU legacies seem hyper focused on hub-spoke. I don’t know enough about the industry to begin to guess why. Just a consumer.
john_le_carre@reddit
Still, it does seem as if the legacies are leaving money on the table. There’s plenty of business travel between non-hub European cities. But I guess they’ve done the math, and the money they’d make running a direct flight isn’t worth it.
thrownjunk@reddit
Yup the corporate full fare flight to a relatively price insensitive pax is huge.
I do that 2x a year and then i get a free FF trip for my family to the beach or grandma.
Twombls@reddit
They do compete. Ive taken a klm flight from mainland to leeds then taken a Ryanair flight back two days later
Twombls@reddit
In Europe the legacies only do hub-and-spoke. Want a direct flight? Your only choice is RyanAir or EasyJet.
I feel like thats not necessarily true. Ive taken some pretty short haul klm air france flights around Europe
BLT_Trade_r@reddit
I think this is really it, I just look for cheap flights, and true enough, Spirit did have the cheapest flights many times, but there were plenty of times when others did. Also, Spirit was tricky because depending on the situation, it might not be a good deal. For instance, if you needed to fly with full luggage, the baggage fees would take you higher than Southwest. So I would just fly Southwest, but Spirit's business model probably requires people like me to continue to fly Spirit and overpay for bags. Thats a tricky business model to use on extremely cheap customers because they will rapidly learn from the mistakes and either pack less, or find a cheaper total package with more bags. If Spirit had been better about addon bag prices, to the point that it was still cheaper to fly with them then I think they could have retained volume.
Fattswindstorm@reddit
It’s almost if air travel on a whole, is a luxury and we should be reinvesting in train travel. Yeah it’s going to cost Trillions. But we seem fine with that if it’s for killing people.
Icy_Entrepreneur_476@reddit
Ah yes. Why should people spend money on a 2 hour flight when they could spend their money on a train that will get them to their destination in 2 to 3 days
OkMech@reddit
In addition to the major time differences aviation has way more flexibility if/when market demand changes. It’s pretty easy to land at a new airport, not so easy to run new tracks.
Matar_Kubileya@reddit
Im as big a fan of rail as everyone, but trying to compete with airlines for long distance routes is a huge strategic mistake given the current state of American rail. Consistent, more widespread mid-speed lines would be a lot more helpful than a few high speed lines, at least outside the coastal corridors.
itsacutedragon@reddit
Long distance train travel is the true luxury.
HunMyy@reddit
Good train transportation and good air transportation are not mutually exclusive. Each have their strengths and can be used in an interconnected manner.
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
Listen, I would love there to be more trains in this country. But you’re completely missing the point with this comment.
At its root Spirit operated a business model that was largely reliant on optimal market conditions mixed with significant up-charges and fees. The former hasn’t been the case since 2019, and the latter relied on a price conscious clientele that had little-to-no brand loyalty. Once UA/DL/AA offered basic economy offerings the ULCCs had little to differentiate themselves while the legacies could leverage larger route networks and schedules.
mr_bots@reddit
Also the exact ready Southwest had to make changes. The all economy model doesn’t work today. The mainlines can charge less for economy seats because they’re subsidized by the increased demand for business and first class.
pegasus3891@reddit
This, yes. In airline lingo, Spirit's a "spill" carrier - they pick up the slice of passengers that the majors are okay with not carrying. UA/DL/AA want their planes 90% full or whatever, and accept that slashing prices to fill the last 10% would be counterproductive, and they accept that those people (the "spill") will fly another airline.
Post-pandemic, with business demand down, the legacies hit their desired load factors by soaking up more of those leisure passengers, using basic economy fares and loyalty program offerings to do it, with revenue offsets from premium service. That left less spill for Spirit to catch, and Spirit couldn't survive it. It was inevitable, really.
ImissTBBT@reddit
I think ordering a crap ton of new jets when their current fleet was perfectly fine might have had something to do with it. Many millions per month in lease and repayments.
start3ch@reddit
I never had a bad experience with Spirit, and I must’ve been on 40-50 flights of theirs. However I’m the type of person who would do basically anything to save $100 on a flight
But I knew something was up when they started aggressively pushing their credit cards and giving out free points in flight.
can-opener-in-a-can@reddit
Before I had ever flown Spirit, people told me, “Everyone flies Spirit once. Once.” I flew Spirit once.
flynryan692@reddit
This seems like a hit piece on the airline if I am being honest. The line "the airline was mostly profitable through 2019" down plays the fact they were THE most profitable airline in the country at that time. The line "No one ever compared Delta and Spirit, at least when it comes to service" shows me that this author is out of touch. Spirit was never meant to be compared to Delta, ever. Does anyone compare Walmart and Nordstroms? The article fails to mention the impact of the GTF engine recall and just how much strain that placed on the airline.
Spirit was the butt of the joke, and yes the experience was tight seats and pay for everything extra, but the reality is that Spirit did have a healthy customer base that returned time and time again. Spirit did have good load factors. These metrics were shared internally with employees. The financial missteps and misfortunes caused that to not matter in the end.
Spirit did not die because people did not like it, it died because the executive level of the airline was not aggressive enough in pivoting and reacting when they needed to. They were timid in their approach. The first bankruptcy was internationally small and quick, and the second bankruptcy was spurred on by AerCap attempting to take planes overnight. I'd argue that had Spirit went into Ch 11 quickly after the B6 merger fell through, rejected the NEO's then and reshaped the airline, it would still be here today in a position to weather the current fuel price storm. The airline has shed something like $3bn in debt just since September and on track to exit the bankruptcy this month or next, but it was all too late.
Rare-One1047@reddit
It's because someone is trying to get a gofundme together to buy Spirit, and by all means it appears to be working. If Spirit comes back from the dead, that's a lot of potential money the rest of the airline industry won't be able to charge.
https://letsbuyspiritair.com/
Mrc3mm3r@reddit
They've got a ways to go...
chriswaco@reddit
The article is trash and doesn't even mention Spirit's reasonable 82% load factor.
One of the problems with being a smaller airline is that larger companies like Delta will take losses on competitive routes in order to drive the other airline out of business. Now the larger companies are free to raise rates on those routes.
h5n1zzp@reddit
In that case, Ryan Air should have folded years ago
Pol_Potamus@reddit
RyanAir charges dirt-cheap base fares, aggressively milks customers who don't know any better for fees and upcharges, and gets you to your destination efficiently and (if you're wise to their ways) cheaply.
Spirit charged dirt-cheap base fares, aggressively milked customers who don't know any better for fees and upcharges, and made travel day an unmitigated clusterfuck every step of the way.
JoeyTheGreek@reddit
Ryanair is a dive bar, Spirit was a waffle house
faberkyx@reddit
they used to be extremely cheap but nowadays.. not so much than other airlines, 25 years ago I used to fly very often between Italy, UK and Ireland for literally few cents, they even paid your airport fees.. then it was 5-10 euro, then 30-50 euro.. then 100-150.. now it's close to a aerlingus/british/lufthansa ticket price, so much that I'didnt fly Ryanar anymore in the last 5-6 years, I prefer to spend a little more and don't deal with those assholes
LordDOW@reddit
I've still found them to be significantly cheaper than the others though, I just flew 4 flights with them last week and it cost me less than €100. Still very worth it.
john_le_carre@reddit
Additionally, a lot of the EU legacies have very limited non-hub flights. They left a huge gap in the market for the ULCCs to dominate.
For example, here in Berlin, Lufthansa only serves Frankfurt and Munich. If I want to fly direct to, say, Barcelona or Sicily, EasyJet and Ryanair are the only choices. I’ll put up with a lot of inconvenience to save a transfer.
TaskForceCausality@reddit
Ryanair has some structural advantages that no U.S. LCC can enjoy. First, European geographic distances are much shorter than the larger USA. That means lower operating costs, lower flight hours, and more flights per unit of time versus an American LCC.
Further , they have a lot more control over the turnover process than U.S. airlines. Ryanair can empty and refill a 737 for the next flight in less time than it took Spirit to open the cabin door. Going from the front door of the terminal to take with a minimum of wasted time is a benefit to the airlines cost structure and to the customer.
Spirit didn’t control airport ops, so that’s also something they couldn’t take advantage of.
Melech333@reddit
This is interesting and I don't know anything about it. Can you tell more about how Ryanair has such great control over the turnover process? Is the difference a regulatory one, or a business model one? What is hindering the turnover process so much for Spirit (and I'm assuming other US carriers as well)?
pbosh90@reddit
From what I remember reading and my own experience, in Europe they don’t have “assigned gates”. So any plane can go to any gate. Vs here in the US gates 1-15 is all United, gates 16-22 is all Delta, etc. Add to that that Ryanair doesn’t use jet bridges, they control when they park and the doors are already open. They slide out their own stairs from the fuselage and you’re deplaning. There were a few times when they called to board for our Ryanair flight and the inbound wasn’t even on final yet. We still departed on time. Honestly wild how fast of a turnaround we had sometimes.
People hate on Ryanair and even the US ULCC’s but I flew all over Europe often for around €25 one way I used to fly home to see my wife when I lived in Florida on Allegiant and she lived in Ohio for $50 each way. They fit a niche, and for me that was getting to X from Y as cheap as possible. I do think flight time and distance is part of it. I can deal with a shitty Ryanair seat that makes my butt numb within 30 minutes for a 65 minute flight. But in the US, I hated being crammed in Allegiant for 2 hours minimum.
IC_1318@reddit
I believe they aim for a 25 or 30 min turnaround time so yeah, pretty fast.
t-poke@reddit
And with more flights in a day, that's more passengers they can nickel and dime with ancillary fees and buy on board food and drink, which is where they make a ton of profit.
faberkyx@reddit
that's what I thought too.. Ryanair has a terrible service, and lands usually far from real destinations.. after covid their price is not so much lower compared to major airlines
Ok-Stomach-@reddit
It’s a different market though. Apple to orange. European airlines are too fragmented; also it’s practical to fly to an airport so far away from the main destination that it might as well be another county yet still get there within 2 hours of landing; Americans simply make more to make Ryanair type business model not attractive enough to enough people here.
Sourhwest was the original low cost airline and as far as I know pioneered to fly to secondary airport which latter Ryanair adopted. Southwest is doing pretty well still. I suppose at the end of the day at least in the US race to the bottom competition on price isn’t sustainable
Melech333@reddit
Isn't it true that in Europe, a large amount of the regional flights are handled by turboprops, too, which make better economics for the shorter regional flights. In the US, those flights are still dominated by regional jets and US flyers might be more reluctant to travel on a turboprop.
Ok-Stomach-@reddit
Don’t know I only flew turboprop commercially once it’s island hopping in Hawaii. It’s single engine also (flew many times on Cessna 208 but not over Pacific Ocean) so anything happens we’d have been fish food for sure. I ain’t gonna fly no turboprop commercially (I do leisurely but that’s the risk i accept for fun but not for actual traveling)
Melech333@reddit
I'm referring to larger regional twin turboprops like the Dash 8's and the ATR-42/72's. I think those are common in markets like Europe whereas in the US we mainly have CRJ's and the other small regional twin jets.
Uncle_johns_roadie@reddit
What Americans don't understand is that European consumers both have less purchasing power than they do and are incredibly cheap/stingy.
Europeans are more than okay to put up with Europe's ULCCs because it aligns with their budget and cultural money values.
This is also why European legacy carriers raced to the bottom to cut services and decouple add-ons, whereas American legacies have mostly done the opposite.
I always have to do a double take when I fly into the US, board a domestic flight and walk by 3-4 rows of actual business/first and not just economy seats with the middle seat blocked off like in Europe.
Altruistic_Papaya430@reddit
I wouldn't go with cheap/stingy, rather just see no value proposition paying double/triple with a legacy carrier on a sub 2hr flight for basically the same service. Rather spend the difference in better accomodation/food etc. at my destination.
Melech333@reddit
Ryanair is also the 5th largest airline in the world, behind AA, DL, UA, and SW. It is the largest airline in Europe and anywhere outside the US.
This has to afford them similar advantages to weather difficult periods in the industry.
CorrodedLollypop@reddit
Easyjet too
Chicago60616@reddit
I had red eye flight with them and those seats are torture device , not a chance you can sleep . That was the last time I flew with them, I’ll rather pay double but never again I’ll be in that seat
erin281@reddit
I flew to Vegas on Spirit air about ten years ago, was delayed both ways and yeahhhhh I never flew them again, just wasn’t worth the cheap price to me.
Shaolcat@reddit
Hedge funds and private equity companies!
Dig deep into Toys R Us. Give you an understanding of why private equity companies finish off companies.
TheeParent@reddit
My theory, someone at Spirit is close to the administration. Spirit was struggling. Oil prices surged. Spirit board reached out to the administration. US government buys Spirit for more than its worth.
jikesar968@reddit
They were better than Frontier.
CrackerBarrelGrandma@reddit
I flew once and said that was the last time
LouKrazy@reddit
This article doesn’t seem to mention any of the challenges of fleet utilization due to A320 PW issues. Seems like a dumb take which ignores this same risk to other airlines
asmrhead@reddit
CNN is full of shit, more at 11.
CerebralAccountant@reddit
The GTF issues were a massive drag on costs and available seat miles, but Spirit's revenues (RASM etc.) were also weak. More airframes and ASMs wouldn't have solved the latter.
bdougy@reddit
Had a conversation with my friend where he told me that a bad Spirit flight has made him afraid to fly ever since. That put this whole situation in context for me. Never a great thing to see a company go under, but ultimately the free market determined Spirit’s fate.
directrix688@reddit
Wasn’t this the airline that gave bonuses to employees for how many people an agent forced to check a bag?
SidewaysGoose57@reddit
Only flew them once. PDX-ORD and return. Police had to meet the plane both ways to remove a passenger. Never again. That's notSpirits fault i know. They canceled my first flight as I was driving to the airport. That was their fault.
troglodyte@reddit
I wouldn't say I hated it, I just didn't really see the value. I don't mind discomfort (I'm 5'6" and an average build, so I'm pretty travel-sized), but by the time you added a carryon, they often weren't any cheaper at all than the competition. In fact, the very first Google Flights search I ran-- Denver to NYC-- turned up a comparable SWA flight for $10 more than the still-listed JetBlue offering.
And it wasn't just a matter of comfort, it was practicality. As the article points out, you were paying for everything, and while some of it was frivolous or comfort-focused and you could tough it out, baggage absolutely wasn't, meaning that you could really on capture great value if you traveled with just what fit under your seat. On top of that, their schedule was often limited, meaning when flights cancelled, you often had no options. We once got stuck in New Orleans during Jazz Fest, with no lodging because it was jazz fest, because Spirit cancelled our flight and rebooked us FOUR DAYS later. Ultimately we had to fly out of Houston, and the cost of the car, last-minute United flight, and gas, while cheaper than staying in NOLA for 4 days, far outstripped our lifetime savings as occasional ULCC travelers to that point.
I really hope ULCC carriers can figure out how to make it work; I think it's an important model. I get why it's harder in the US than Europe given the distances, but it also should be kind of easier than Europe without competition from HSR?
SixtyFourPewPew@reddit
I agree with your overall sentiment, but JetBlue actually has the nicer more premium travel experience for that Denver to NYC flight. Not sure who has more frequency.
dpaanlka@reddit
I flew Spirit a lot over the past 2-3 years and thought it was great. Super cheap, clean new airplanes, always on time.
I think the complainers just didn’t read the fine print, or got upset when they were unsuccessful trying to guilt the gate people into letting them bring their bags on. They will not.
some_boring_dude@reddit
I don't fly a lot anymore. When I did, I took delta. Now I live in a more rural location and the nearest airport's only nonstop flight to FLL was spirit. So, the last time before I had to fly, before they filed bankruptcy, that's what I chose.
It was on time and boarding was no issue, but if you don't pay for all the extras you're basically in a flying cattle car. It was the most uncomfortable flight I have ever been on. The slam dunk approach into FLL felt like it ruptured my eardrum and it didn't clear for over 4 hours.
Very recently, I had to go again, and with the looming dissolution, I went out of my way to Frontier. The flight was only marginally better, and an hour late.
Other_Perspective_41@reddit
I flew into Vegas on Spirit about 12 years ago. It was the worst flight experience that I ever had - until the flight out of Vegas which was even worse than the first leg. I never flew spirit again
kdeff@reddit
I want to believe this article because I was one of those who had 2 bad experiences on Spirit, and would always pay whatever it cost to avoid using them again. That said, the article provides no factual evidence that this was the case.
Customer service is really critical for airlines though, and Spirit really had none. If your flight is on time and has no issues that is great, but anyone who flies more than a little bit knows that delays are common and how the airline deals with them (especially for people who don't fly frequently) colors your perception of the airline. I've been a very loyal SWA customer for over a decade, because on those occasions where things did go wrong, they handled it well (I wasn't traveling during The Storm). But now I am reconsidering, given all the changes happening which will inevitably bleed into customer support.
Belfastscum@reddit
I loved Spirit... Great for solo one bagging. Gonna miss the "Howdy"
glitch241@reddit
I think the reputation it built as being the airline you always saw viral videos of people fighting and generally acting trashy really built over time. I took it when I was younger. But nobody wants to be around gross behavior
Choice-Ad6376@reddit
Fuel prices too high and they didnt hedge. MBAs decided to yolo with the future of the company after the original bankruptcy
Sharklar_deep@reddit
I thought they were fine. I guess I’m in the extreme minority but I took probably 10 round trips on spirit and never had a bad experience.
OpinionofanAH@reddit
I flew Spirit in 2023 as an only option. First leg was fairly short so I opted for the bus bench seating. It was fine for a one hour flight but I paid for the “big front seat” for the next leg that was 4 hours. The $100 upgrade was well worth it over the base seat but still fairly cramped. Either way the return flight on Southwest was more enjoyable.
I briefly worked for a contractor that handled their ground ops about 10 years prior to my flight in 2023. The only thing that changed between those years was the god awful seats just got worse and they added the Yellow Cab paint job.
Crusoebear@reddit
It’s been reported that back around the same time Spirit stopped turning profits - the Big 3 had figured out how to poach Spirit passengers by flooding their markets with cheap tickets. Not necessarily the entire market but just enough (and with accurate timing) to kill off the number of tickets that had previously turned Spirit’s routes from money losers into money makers.
It’s not really a new gambit as American used to do this when Southwest Airlines was still pretty new. The AA CEO would fight SWA 737s - which at the time were much smaller models - by flooding their markets zone with larger capacity 757s at cheap fares.
Then as today, the larger carriers knew they could absorb the hit in pricing better than the smaller entrant and hoped the low cost carrier would bleed out. Of course in SWA’s case it only had limited success and they are still around. But things like this combined with jet fuel prices suddenly doubling due to a dumb war meant Spirit really had no chance.
iamslevemcdichael@reddit
Spirit said in an official release that sustained high fuel prices due to the war in Iran (“geopolitical developments in the Middle East” I think is how they put it) were insurmountable for them. Really feels like cnn is avoiding the elephant in the room here for politically motivated reasons by not honing in on that.
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
It’s not politically motivated, Spirit’s business had been failing for years prior to this week. It went through two bankruptcies last year and was already signaling in August 2025 that they were facing a business shutdown this year.
Fuel prices were just the final nail in their coffin.
iamslevemcdichael@reddit
I’m saying CNN’s characterization of this that totally ignores the death knell (fuel prices due to Iran) comes off as politically motivated, not the actual downfall of spirit airlines. That is 100% on their leadership, because of course they should have planned better for large fuel fluctuations, which can happen at any time due to conflict, black swan events, etc…
unclefire@reddit
Swiss cheese effect IMO. Shitty airline, struggling financially, ultimately impacted by fuel prices.
RealityLopsided7366@reddit
There's a family member I could go see by either taking a 1hr Spirit flight, or driving six hours. Or taking a $300+ United flight (Spirit was $80-100). In the end I began biting the Spirit bullet, and while it was extremely uncomfortable (I'm tall), it was also cheap. In the end, I was grateful I had that option.
unclefire@reddit
Yeah but suffering thru an hour flight can be worth it. Youre up then cruise for a bit then back down.
no_sight@reddit
Everyone also hates RyanAir. But RyanAir is A LOT cheaper than others.
Everyone hated spirit, but it was often only a little cheaper.
zilmc@reddit
Yeah, I booked April vacation week to Orlando last year and frontier was like $700 and JetBlue was $800. Either way I was paying twice as much as I wanted to, so we didn’t hesitate to book JetBlue
okjetsgo@reddit
I would usually filter out Frontier and Spirit so didn’t really even notice them being options. One bad experience was enough on both. Peace of mind with a different carrier is worth the cost.
Barbellblonde1@reddit
Spirit left me stranded in Fort Lauderdale once, and when I called customer service to try to get a different flight back to Dulles, they booked me on a plane to Dallas. Thank god I figured it out before getting to the airport.
Clutch55555@reddit
I’ve been in an abusive relationship with Spirit for years but kept coming back. Smarter people left them for good
capt_Obvious2u@reddit
There’s gonna be a lot more Nissan Altimas on the roads now that Spirit has closed shop.
TaskForceCausality@reddit
Spirit was done from the jump. Fuel price hikes accelerated the inevitable, but the core problem with any American LCC is that flying people from A to B is not a consistently profitable business anymore.
The big 3 US carriers are, by profit center, credit card travel clubs who happen to operate jets on the side. The credit card side of these companies not only brings in billions, it also allows infinite flexibility with fares. Since the credit card side is where the company’s bread is buttered, these carriers can cut economy fares as low as needed to fry their competitors. So at the end of the day, if you want a basically functional seat with a bag Spirit offered no real benefit vs a basic American/Delta/United ticket.
This dynamic is why Southwest is pivoting away from the “people mover” business mode to the “Travel Club” system.
aestival@reddit
I'd be curious to know what impact credit card program revenue stream has had on airline solvency in general - it used to feel like airlines were declaring bankruptcy every 10 years or so but things have been quiet among the mainline carriers since the early 2010's.
ScaryDuck2@reddit
All of the delayed/cancelled flights, all of the mistreatment of their customers to uphold the bare fare. People are pretending those things didn’t exist and it was solely the fault of Iran war.
abyssazaur@reddit
Okay but our government's approach to business shouldn't be to make the environment hostile then say well if you died then we were just exposing pre-existing weaknesses. That's our government being a terrible government
airpab1@reddit
So many factors contributed to their demise.
Over zealous route expansion leading to high expenditures & too many money losing routes, miscues by leadership (not merging w/Frontier), P&W engine issues, service issues, outdated business model, fuel prices, semi-uncomfortable planes, liquidity issues & the list goes on
Unfortunate
imajoeitall@reddit
Are people’s expectations really not grounded? Never had an issue flying a $50 flight from Detroit to LA.. that’s on the long end of flying Spirit. Lately, I’ve been feeling underwhelmed with Delta. Lots of older planes for international flight, shitty organization, shitty check in process, always delayed. Never had all of these issues at once but it’s happening more frequently.
goro-n@reddit
As a tall person, I struggled to fit into and stay comfortable in a Sprit seat if I didn’t “upgrade” to exit row or pay for one of their larger seats. And at that point I might as well be buying a ticket on a major airline and getting a carry-on and/or bag included with the ticket.
DaBigBird27@reddit
Same here. It was the worst culprit when it came to space.
febrileairplane@reddit
Spirit's just the first. I'll be curious to see how the rest of the sector does as the year goes on. Especially Avelo and Breeze. Frontier too.
TheTangoFox@reddit
Smaller seating config than rivals, bad engines, gas, customers, financing, no merger or bailout
airpab1@reddit
Spot on
Bigbang-Seeowhee@reddit
On bodycam channels Spirit is well known for customers getting arrested for intoxication, violence or disorderly conduct.
Global_Profile_9283@reddit
Two ways of being a low cost airline in North America (Europe is different because of short distances and such low prices so Ryanair can treat people poorly and people don’t really care):
Have great service and grow to the point based on how much people like flying with you that you’re not really low cost anymore (Southwest and in my own country Porter and in the 2000s WestJet fit this)
This. Again form my perspective this happens every few years to some upstart Canadian LCC.
Swagg19@reddit
I always thought flying spirit was fine…unless it was flying out or to Atlanta…that was always a completely different experience
Yosemite-Dan@reddit
I flew Spirit once out of necessity
It was always worth the additional $100 or more to fly United because, unlike Spirit, they've never left my high and dry.
castafobe@reddit
I really think this is too simplistic a view. I've watched a Spirit flight attendant who has a YouTube channel for 8 years now. Virtually all of his flights were full. People were still flying Spirit. It's not like they were flying half empty planes all day long. Obviously their reputation certainly plays a part in all this, but to say it's the reason they failed is ignoring the other huge contributing factors like the PW engine issues and the Iran War. The article doesn't even mention the engine issues because why would they, a fluff article talking about how awful their service is gets more clicks even when it's only part of the story.
Rare-One1047@reddit
And their service isn't really bad either. I've never had a problem on Spirit, never been shocked by bag fees (they're quite up front about it), and never had to deal with a dirty plane. Plus I appreciate how modern their fleet is, and that it's all airbus. Last time I was on an American flight, my wife was nearly hit in the head by ice falling from somewhere in the ceiling.
karawec403@reddit
I feel like a lot of it is what you are prepared for. Ive only flown spirit when I’m alone and not carrying more luggage than a backpack. And it’s always gone smoothly. But I always see someone arguing with the gate agent, usually because they didn’t know about the bag fees
2009impala@reddit
I routinely chose not to fly Spirit because the extra $30 or so was worth it to not fly with the people who fly Spirit.
segelflugzeugdriver@reddit
They bumped me from my flight and left me stuck in reno for 12 hours. Glad to see them fail, fuck spirit
Late-Mathematician55@reddit
Here's a link to NPR's Planet Money podcast from a couple days ago on Spirit. A good listen.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?i=1000764550482
waltarrrrr@reddit
I only flew it once and that was enough for me.
Guardsred70@reddit
I'm a fairly libertarian person, but I really wouldn't mind if they nationalized the airlines. They've been deregulated for \~50 years and failed to find ways to compete on anything but price.
I don't think any of them have any sort of uniform product differentiation strategy, so they can't ever have a premium priced product/service that would make them more profitable. And so much of the flying experience is out of the airlines control: the airports, TSA, etc.
Imagine if we bought cars this way. Just go to cars.com and sort by price and buy the cheapest one for sale. That's how we buy plane tickets. But with cars we're more informed about brands and product attributes so we know that a 20 year old altima with a salvage title and 200K miles is not as good of a car as a some others and you might be disappointed if you buy it.
Airlines can't even do that part well. I just don't have much sympathy for them.
Slick-Fork@reddit
You do not want the dmv experience when flying.
At least I don’t. Competition is a good thing, and I disagree that travellers don’t sort by more than price.
Some are absolutely price driven. Others will pay more for the better experience. Those that will pay are much better educated on the different offerings.
WealthyMarmot@reddit
They compete on price and routes/coverage, which are the two biggest factors for the vast majority of personal travelers and a lot of the business market as well. Air travel is increasingly a commodity product, sure, but for a lot of us that’s fine.
jstax1178@reddit
It was nice seeing the flying taxi in the skies of NYC, very distinctive look
Honestly never flew them, but it sucks they had a bad reputation, well rather an image problem many people associated the airline with being ghetto. Which wasn’t true of the whole airline. It provided a service to many people who would otherwise not be able to travel.
ahotdogcasing@reddit
...but they're still going to make popcorn.
RadioRoyGBiv@reddit
Got stranded by them more than once. Cost me a lot of money and a ton of stress.
MSPCSchertzer@reddit
Spirit was my favorite airline for short flights. I flew LGA to IAH for $28 round trip once. I would rather spend my money at a nicer hotel.
flyflyshoo@reddit
I fly a lot. At various times, depending on my life, I've been simultaneously 1k on United, Diamond on Delta. Currently, A list preferred on Southwest.
I flew Spirit once in 2004. La Guardia to Orlando. The experience was so bad, I vowed if it was at all possible, to fly anything other than Spirit.
A business model where you bait and switch on price and your cutomers only fly you once was not a sustainable model. Unfortunately, it does seem to be where the whole industry is heading.
BigBird50N@reddit
I booked Spirit to get to a meeting out of town. 10:30 pm the night before my 5 am flight I get an email that my flight is cancelled. Had to scramble to get a now VERY expensive ticket with another airline. That was the last time for me. Not reliable when I needed them.
Ok_Wall_8267@reddit
The cheap airlines always have the crazy fuckers on them screaming and yelling about some dumb shit. Same reason I dont go greyhound. Bad mannered people are on this airline
Sel_drawme@reddit
I mean most things that are “cheap” are going to attract a certain type of person. Not sure how you fix one without fixing the other.
Weep4Thee@reddit
Once all their customers were in jail they really had no hope of keeping it going.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Spirit failed because of Delta/United/American and their basic economy. They edged spirit out of the market because they have a much better ability to do what Spirit was doing.
It's kind of like when Wal-Mart comes to town and runs out the mom and pop store.
definitelyainoreally@reddit
all the LCCs are shit when it comes to IROPS and that turns people off real fast once they experience it. once prices came somewhat close then its a no brainer to take the larger carrier.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Delta is 1 big IROP lately. 168 IROP days last year.
definitelyainoreally@reddit
Delta doesn't strand you at a location for 3 days because thats when the next flight is
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Yeah, I've seen enough people sleeping in airports to know that Delta strands people on a regular basis. Almost beat Spirit in cancellations over the weekend too.
zerbey@reddit
Nailed it, why fly Spirit when you pay a little more and get a seat on a major airline? Sure Spirit had its place but it was always a losing option after the Pandemic. I'll still miss having the option, sometimes you just want a quick cheap flight somewhere and don't mind having a sore butt at the end of it.
qdp@reddit
I flew them when they had a nonstop where all others required a connection. It wasn’t as bad as I had heard but I knew all of the “gotchas” like carryon bag fees that would make a normal person say “never again”
LaMortParLeSnuSnu@reddit
The airline itself was fine. It was the pax that made it miserable.
kpbi787@reddit
The airline had been doomed for a while and what we saw was a desperate attempt to keep it afloat. The writing was on the wall and had been for a while, things like the PW engine issue or the price of oil hastened the steady decline of the airline. Wendover Productions did a good video on why budget airlines are suddenly failing (https://youtu.be/4-Pu3CXatsA?si=TNGFq-r9zlGiglRc) which does a good job of identifying the larger systemic issues faced by these airlines and how the big four airlines (AA, WN, DL, UA) were able to claw back from them. It was practically inevitable what happened, doesn't mean it doesn't suck and that it was good, but the overall business plan has been doomed to fail for a while.
langley10@reddit
Yes and what’s even worse is that this happened before. Back in the mid 80s airlines like PeopleExpress were decimated when the big airlines started yield management via their computerized reservation systems that the budget airlines couldn’t answer as they didn’t have comparable systems or access to them as it was too expensive.
OracleofFl@reddit
Pratt & Whitney issue caused them to be paying for dozens of planes that couldn't fly or be sold.
LawrenceOfMeadonia@reddit
Southwest needs to pay attention as they have been making "price-point" changes to align more with the big players while removing things that customers really appreciated.
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