I'm not a commie but at least understand what your criticizing. The collectivization of labour has nothing to do with making it less miserable. It's about spreading the benefits of that labour more equitably.
Things like early investment (which has the most risk), the skill/expertise of the individual gets under rewarded. Easily replaceable labor shouldn't rewarded as much as highly skilled.
You need to look more into the difference between what communist governments said they would do vs what they actually did. No real communist government actually valude manual labor equal to management or intellectual work. This is part of why some modern Marxists insist that true communism has never actually been tried before - because it kind of hasn't. The Russian CCCP, the Communist Party of China under Maoists, post-war Vietnam, Pol-Pot's atrocity of errors - not one of them had independent labor unions, socially adaptive economic corrective mechanisms, or anything near an actual attempt at a equitable society. All of them dramatically valued management over labor - even intellectual labor - they just claimed otherwise.
I don't respect Marxism - I think it was based more around Marx's rage than a real vision, and I also blame it for giving evil men a platform to blame socialism for their own predations. Ultimately, though, Marx himself didn't really seek personal power, and he saw a totalitarian vanguard as a vehicle to establish an equitable society - whereas the systems put in practice drew in men who saw the IDEA of a classless society as a vehicle to personalist totalitarianism. No one ever actually tried to implement Marx's personal vision because the plan itself required at least one generation to be selfless - something that has never happened and never will.
i think people don't understand it much. also we work longer hours than medieval peasants, and with worse benefits too. if tech was the solution things wouldn't be like this
I would argue we also experience a lot more services than medieval peasants. I think you could get the peasant lifestyle with less work hours nowadays. (yes i know the current work atmosphere is toxic and ive seen the HC vid like everyone else)
Those things mattered when it was a small company. Companies with thousands of employees have the same problems no matter what. Unions just make it so they have to pay livable wages and can’t fire people for bullshit.
I work harder when I feel I’m getting fairly compensated for my labour. Isn’t that how it is for everybody? Even if I’m aware my employer doesn’t give a shit about me, if they’re paying $9 above minimum wage for an entry level position, I’ll eat shit and smile
People hate being ripped off. I think most people would enjoy/tolerate working if their job was meaningful (at the least essential) and they were compensated enough to live and pursue other passions.
Fun fact; 'bourgeoisie' is so frequently used by people who can't spell it that the giphy search engine plugged by reddit has different results for all of the most common misspellings.
A recent study found that we could be meeting everyone's needs on the planet, but only expending about 30% of the energy we're using to maintain the current inequality.
Adept-Platypus6676@reddit
Anon desire to have to work 20 hours a day since he can speak to stay alive (with foods/water/air debt)
JumboTrout@reddit
I'm not a commie but at least understand what your criticizing. The collectivization of labour has nothing to do with making it less miserable. It's about spreading the benefits of that labour more equitably.
undreamedgore@reddit
The issue with that is it values the labor itself over other factors.
TheOnlyBliebervik@reddit
What?
undreamedgore@reddit
Things like early investment (which has the most risk), the skill/expertise of the individual gets under rewarded. Easily replaceable labor shouldn't rewarded as much as highly skilled.
I_am_lying_for_money@reddit
Marx did take into account the differing values of people’s labour btw
Slide-Maleficent@reddit
You need to look more into the difference between what communist governments said they would do vs what they actually did. No real communist government actually valude manual labor equal to management or intellectual work. This is part of why some modern Marxists insist that true communism has never actually been tried before - because it kind of hasn't. The Russian CCCP, the Communist Party of China under Maoists, post-war Vietnam, Pol-Pot's atrocity of errors - not one of them had independent labor unions, socially adaptive economic corrective mechanisms, or anything near an actual attempt at a equitable society. All of them dramatically valued management over labor - even intellectual labor - they just claimed otherwise.
I don't respect Marxism - I think it was based more around Marx's rage than a real vision, and I also blame it for giving evil men a platform to blame socialism for their own predations. Ultimately, though, Marx himself didn't really seek personal power, and he saw a totalitarian vanguard as a vehicle to establish an equitable society - whereas the systems put in practice drew in men who saw the IDEA of a classless society as a vehicle to personalist totalitarianism. No one ever actually tried to implement Marx's personal vision because the plan itself required at least one generation to be selfless - something that has never happened and never will.
denecity@reddit
im so sad to see people seemingly abandoned the fully automated luxury gay space communism
Letters_to_Dionysus@reddit
i think people don't understand it much. also we work longer hours than medieval peasants, and with worse benefits too. if tech was the solution things wouldn't be like this
denecity@reddit
I would argue we also experience a lot more services than medieval peasants. I think you could get the peasant lifestyle with less work hours nowadays. (yes i know the current work atmosphere is toxic and ive seen the HC vid like everyone else)
Letters_to_Dionysus@reddit
sure, services have improved with tech but power dynamics have worsened still and giving up that fight is basically selling out. what's the hc vid?
denecity@reddit
They have worsened from the times where most people were serfs?
CloudySpace@reddit
I hate reddit
brody319@reddit
Anon is a dumbass and does not know that without collective labor unions he'd be working even more
Basis-Cautious@reddit
Redditors will "akshually 🤓☝️" anything
Egg_Yolkeo55@reddit
You forgot to add:
Protects shitty employees
Alienates younger employees who can't advance
Pay based on what you did, not what you are doing
Loss of individual commendation/pay raise
Qualified immunity for police brutality
eroctheviking@reddit
Those things mattered when it was a small company. Companies with thousands of employees have the same problems no matter what. Unions just make it so they have to pay livable wages and can’t fire people for bullshit.
Egg_Yolkeo55@reddit
Buddy doesn't know what wrongful termination is
quantifical@reddit
Most of these came from Ford making so much money and WW2 restrictions, not unions
bfg9kdude@reddit
If Ford made so much money, why are their cars fucking dogshit?!?!? Checkmate liberal
Jack-of-Hearts-7@reddit
"But I thought labor unions were communism and cringe!!!!"
SoupaMayo@reddit
Call me an eurocuck but this is what makes me proud of my shitty country
Thendrail@reddit
>implying anon actually works
-TwistedHairs-@reddit
but that’s not sigma slavemaxxing!!!1!!
halpfulhinderance@reddit
I work harder when I feel I’m getting fairly compensated for my labour. Isn’t that how it is for everybody? Even if I’m aware my employer doesn’t give a shit about me, if they’re paying $9 above minimum wage for an entry level position, I’ll eat shit and smile
cheapMaltLiqour@reddit
People hate being ripped off. I think most people would enjoy/tolerate working if their job was meaningful (at the least essential) and they were compensated enough to live and pursue other passions.
I_am_lying_for_money@reddit
The real answer is that collectivizing labour is only the first step to making work less miserable
Slide-Maleficent@reddit
The real answer is that assembling factories to process billionaires into lampshades is only the first step to making work less miserable
PassoverGoblin@reddit
Lampshades? How bourgeois of you
Slide-Maleficent@reddit
Fun fact; 'bourgeoisie' is so frequently used by people who can't spell it that the giphy search engine plugged by reddit has different results for all of the most common misspellings.
Most of it is shit like this:
Nadiadain@reddit
Lampshades? I don’t want elons ugly mug in my living room personally but you do you
Slide-Maleficent@reddit
Elon won't be the feedstock. Grok deserves justice for what he did to it.
Wuellig@reddit
A recent study found that we could be meeting everyone's needs on the planet, but only expending about 30% of the energy we're using to maintain the current inequality.
_-___-__-_-__-___-_@reddit
My daddy was a wagie
And I'm a wagies's son
And I'll stick with the union
'Til every battle's won
blimpin_aint_easy@reddit
Reed ~~seej~~ Conquest of Bread