Do you think a lot of the societal malaise and mental health crisis is a subconscious reaction to collapse?
Posted by KerouacMyBukowski_@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 61 comments
I posted this comment as a reply to a post in the Existentialism subreddit about someone feeling very out of it and depressed. Just completely untethered from society and meaning, and I'm curious of y'all's thoughts on my theory of why things feel so off:
"It sounds like what I feel/where I'm at, which is definitely depression. But I think the cause of it (at least for me) is this feeling that we all know something is terribly wrong with the biosphere we depend on and have exploited.
We've really made it to the point where the consequences of deleting the earth of resources, polluting and violating multiple planetary boundaries can't be ignored. That's why everything feels off. We knew our way of living was unsustainable yet we kept (and keep) going like everything would just be fine.
It's the cognitive dissonance, and the fact that all the things we've been warned about in regards to climate change, overfishing, ground water depletion, consumerism, etc are all true and are things we're already starting to experience that will just get worse.
I think it's something that people block out, but subconsciously it's there both individually and on a societal level. The knowledge that we can't keep living like this yet are doing nothing to change it. And with it comes helplessness, mourning and a lot of other feelings we don't know what to do with.
At least that's my theory."
I really think that people can sense something is off subconsciously, even if they can't point to it as collapse. Not to sound too new age-y but we're part of this planet. I think it's flashing warning signs all over and as much as we try to avoid it I think there's something fundamental in any animal's nature to have a sense when someone is off, even if they can't or won't acknowledge the reason.
JackBlackBowserSlaps@reddit
More of a very conscious reaction to the accelerating inequality and enshittification of everything.
KerouacMyBukowski_@reddit (OP)
I agree though in my mind those are just a symptom of collapse overall.
Solo_Camping_Girl@reddit
Good take and I agree. OP, I think you probably have that feeling before, when it was a few weeks before covid locked down the entire world. I felt it. Weeks before it happened, there seems to be something in the air and I'm not referring to pollution, but it feels wrong. Then, two weeks before the lockdown, the lines at the grocery were noticeably long and shopping carts were loaded.
Going back to today, I think people are more aware that how this world is run isn't right anymore. The system is broken and yet, not enough people are questioning it for fear of being seen as an anarchist, communist or what have you. Just my take, the strait of hormuz shitshow reopened the wounds of doubt for me and probably, for a lot of people.
IIRC, mental health became a hot button topic during the pandemic and the few months after since people were really suffering from isolation. It's just disappointing that just a few years after, mental health seems to be a forgotten issue, but is still there. It's probably even rising right now.
Ghostwoods@reddit
Personally, I think that the main cause of this mental health decline is the insane way that the hyper-elite have been looting society. There's not enough left in the system for the rest of us to function. No money, no future, no hope.
However, I do suspect that this hideous feeding frenzy that's destroying everything was caused by collapse. The hyper-elite started to understand how grim the future was, and decided to steal everything they possibly could while it was still there to steal.
miklayn@reddit
This sends me off the rails.
They are only able to manipulate us and exploit us and the world because we let them. They mean to own up the world while the rest of us burn, and right now they are succeeding at that mass murder.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LET THEM
Lost_Birthday_3138@reddit
We absolutely don't. And yet.
ideknem0ar@reddit
We're witnessing a smash and grab on a global scale. It's demoralizing af because it's become obvious any institutions that might have been able to check the destruction have been hollowed out from within. Or, IMO, have given up the pretense of being willing & able to do anything to stop it.
shewholaughslasts@reddit
All the bad stuff we were warned about seems to be coming true but also the good actors who used to stand up against the bad seem to be either silent or completely powerless.
It's a bad combo and it's been out of control dumpster fire bad for at least 10 years now, so yeah, I have zero hope left and that's beyond depressing.
AHRA1225@reddit
I just figured it was the big money finally stopped beating around the bush and basically told any of those “good guys” basically play along or we will delete your entire bloodline. I bet they’ve done that a few times now and everyone plays along
Lost_Birthday_3138@reddit
It's inevitable that it happens, but the ecosystem will be too far gone for it to matter.
space_manatee@reddit
We need to keep at the forefront that there are only around 3300 billionaires worldwide and 8 billion of the rest of us. Ants strong.
ideknem0ar@reddit
True, but it's funny you should bring up a critter comparison, as I absolutely adore chipmunks and have so many around my house that I've observed them for 100s of hours by now and even got to hand tame one. If I've identified with anything in the past decade, it's the chippie. Starts early in the spring and goes deep into the fall, scurrying around with boundless energy to ensure a food-secure-as-possible-so-can-finally-rest winter.
Sorry, my chipmunks are a bright spot in this world. LOL
Lost_Birthday_3138@reddit
The looting and legalized unfairness are definitely a big part of it.
However, the realization of just how dumb the average human is is what pushed me over the edge. At least there was once hope people could change the system if presented with facts, but that hope has evaporated.
I know these things go in cycles, and eventually a critical mass will wake up, but it will be too late.
unbreakablekango@reddit
I think it is this but also the system has put so many limitations on ways in which we are allowed to grow. If people today felt like they could grow and thrive and build lives that they want, with the resources at their disposal, they would be a lot happier. We would all be less depressed. There have been so many limitations put on the ways that we can grow and apply ourselves that we all are feeling very boxed in by the system in which we exist.
merRedditor@reddit
Marx's theory of alienation meets watching everything you were taught to trust end up stabbing you in the back, with a constant shitshow of injustice on a broader scale playing in the background in current events, and chronic fear of homelessness and loss of healthcare (which now is little more than billing with added steps).
GardenRafters@reddit
euro_trashh@reddit
That’s just the aspect of hardship. People have lived through wars and haven’t had as severe of a rate of mental illness as we have today because the actually lived in the real world where there was community, continuity, causality, morality and a higher power. The world was tangible. We live in hyper reality where there’s no longer a sense of depth or purpose. A fictional overstimulating nightmare that produces constant dissociation
Parking_Sky9709@reddit
It's not just the biosphere. It's things like the government cancelling enough wind farms to power 15 million homes, because someone hates "wind mills" cause they ruined the view from his Scottish golf course.
seanee79@reddit
Yes.
space_manatee@reddit
I work 40+ hours a week sometimes and have a 2 year old. I certainly dont get time to process it so probably a pretty good theory.
BrightCandle@reddit
I tend to think its Covid. We have half a million studies showing fatigue and mental health concerns as the leading problems it causes and people are still catching it every year. There are other measures showing that Covid is still having a major impact, it is still a leading cause of death, disability is shooting up on mental health and sickness days taken off has double and they all started when the pandemic started.
There are other factors feeding into peoples mood but this disease causes brain damage and makes people more aggressive, fatigued and generally unwell.
uatry@reddit
I'm not denying the long-term effects of Covid but it's not like this widespread feeling of malaise started randomly in late 2019.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
No.
Most feel the way you do due to spending too much time online in self-feeding, fear forums. Log off for a month and you should feel much better.
EstablishmentSalt206@reddit
What is it that you do that makes you so in tune though?
I would like guidance.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
Honest answer: chasing around my three young boys and teaching them how to dirtbike, ski, fish and golf.
aubreypizza@reddit
Do you think about the future they’re going to have to live in?
OregonHotPocket@reddit
Yes. Everyday. Do you think about the future of the kids you have?
aubreypizza@reddit
I don’t have any kids. Collapse was one of the reasons I took into consideration when deciding whether to have any or not.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
Ok_Main3273@reddit
I've upvoted your initial comment, and other replies you've posted below, related to the impact of social media on our mental health because what you've said is true. And now well documented. Including the positive aspect of reducing our consumption of said social media (I've done it: it works).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590291125005212
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386389443_The_Impact_of_Social_Media_on_Mental_Health_A_Comprehensive_Review
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10664807251346978
On the one hand, I keep annoying my friends with my talking of imminent collapse driven by my online research, pushing them to be more informed and learn more about this depressing topic including via this forum (if only to be better prepared), knowing very will that it will impact our mental health.
On the other hand, I so wish I was not 'collapse aware' as I am now. And blissfully back to a time when I did not notice the woods emptied of birds, the Pacific ocean devoid of fish, the sky without insects. 🤷😢
Decloudo@reddit
How is ignoring the problem we actively cause doing any good?
This is just "ignorance is bliss."
Its not like things will get better like that.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
I guess my first comment does come off as an ignorance is bliss statement. I’m not sure how to make things better for society. I know that balancing my personal life on and offline helps me but that’s not helping anyone else but my immediate family. Wish I had a better answer.
Decloudo@reddit
Reduce consumption: less plastic, less waste, less co2, less meat, no ordering stuff, no fast food, no coffee to go in a plastic lined cup, cook yourself, etc. pp.
Lots people can do to positively affect the system.
Kaldorain@reddit
Yeah, as much as I'd love to be as apathetic as the next American't, I can bring myself to turn a blind eye to such massive injustices.
Humans LITERALLY are in the middle of a genocide. A modern day Holocaust.
America is going to war with Iran for dumb reasons.
We've disabled (DOGED) all other renewable energy.
Food prices are escalating at a rapid rate locally.
The weather from El Nino is affect tornado Valley, placing my family dead and center in it now.
HommeMusical@reddit
I don't live in America anymore, haven't for a decade.
Things are very chill where I am.
If I were in America, I'd be wetting my pants with fear. The ostrich solution you propose - "If you can't see it, it doesn't exist," doesn't seem like a good one.
KerouacMyBukowski_@reddit (OP)
I mean you're probably right about spending less time on places like this, but what do you think is the reason for the mental health crisis going on right now? There's plenty of research showing it's a real thing.
No-Papaya-9289@reddit
Smartphones and covid. It wasn't just a respiratory virus, and a lot of people, even if vaccinated, were infected. A lot of others got a little bit of the virus but not enough to cause serious symptoms. Or, even if they didn't catch the disease, lockdown caused issues. There is plenty of documented evidence linking covid and mental health issues.
All this is being memory-holed, unfortunately.
imalostkitty-ox0@reddit
I had a mini revelation the other day, and decided it has a lot to do with the fact that smartphones keep people looking down, which is an inherently submissive position. We experience good news, bad news, entertainment, fear, and boredom all through a lense of mimicked servitude. Twenty years has to take its toll.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
*Meant to reply to you here*
I think the main cause of the majority of mental health issues right now is social media and continuing to feed on it and not live your own life. Living through a few (online) is not good for you.
NiceSupermarket7724@reddit
Yes.
Also caused by: Long Covid, environmental toxins, widespread substance abuse, and hotter days.
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
I didn't even read the body yet.
The answer to your query is absolutely Freakin' DUH!
The sad part: for collapseniks, we know it ultimately doesn't matter. Our species didn't adapt to recognize the entropic aspect of our...indulgences in vice.
Fossil fuels are radioactive to humanity. We're already cooked.
Venus
miklayn@reddit
Recently I've been thinking about getting a tattoo of Cassandra
Mostest_Importantest@reddit
I haven't remembered that name in collapse context for years. And you're absolutely right.
I owe you my thanks for inspiring me, good sir.
96-62@reddit
I think a lot of societal malaise is reading /r/collapse, we are your society now!!
jawfish2@reddit
Just anecdotal observation from an old person:
When I was young we discovered Earth Day, the Big Blue Marble pic, and the Whole Earth catalog. We knew all the things were wrong, but never once thought it couldn't be fixed, nor that there was a cliff in the way. I could get a job in a day or two in any American city. Expenses were low, safety and health not so much considered.
Today my children are 40ish. Neither they, nor anyone else believes that their lives or the country or the world will get better. They do not think they'll have more money, comfort, freedom, natural space, democracy than their parents. They do not think our species is well-suited for sustainable management.
How can this not fill people with depression? Especially when so many hear and see a vast amount of general emotional button-pushing in ads, propaganda, and social media? Infinite growth is a fantasy, and the results of believing in it are upon us.
PenguinColada@reddit
Yes.
PhotographUsed1255@reddit
Here is what I think. I got banned this week from the climate change sub for responding to someone who said he feels hopeless, saying I derive peace from acceptance. So basically, the climate change sub is setting people up to feel angels and violins while capitalism destroys everything. I think the mental health crisis is partly because we are being encouraged to look for the wrong solutions and band-aids while we know deep down that they won't work. So again, I say I derive great peace from accepting that the global economy and politics are destroying everything and I just make my life simple in as many ways as I can. Ban me forever, Reddit, I don't give a fuck.
BlackMassSmoker@reddit
Collapse aware or not, people are just realising things are shit and just getting shittier.
Everything feels like a grift.
The post truth world that materialised since at least Trump a decade ago had led us to this place where no one can discern fact from fiction.
Deepening political polarization that has allowed populist grifters to take centre stage and keep us all in state where everyone is angrily screaming about what they want and don't care for others needs.
The corporations that we're supposed to praise as the 'job and wealth creators' seem to act distinctly anti-human, poisoning the food we eat, the water we drink, and the air we breathe. If you happen to work for one, prepare to step into an alien world filled with broken smiles and pointless busy work as every minute of working time is micromanaged by stressed out middle managers. Work itself is shittier with things like overtime, bonuses, consistent pay rises, career progression, and job stability are now long gone.
Everything costs more. As more people become 'economically invisible' brick and mortar businesses are desperately changing themselves to become 'luxury' to service the 10% of whose money actually matters now. From cinema prices, restaurants, to sporting events - working class people are getting priced out.
People are missing genuine connection with others and feel more alone and disconnected than ever.
treycook@reddit
I don't think it's subconscious.
boneyfingers@reddit
I agree. It's more like the growing distance between conscious, internal thoughts of doom, and the mundane, superficial public-facing words we use to project normalcy. We know what we know, but we can't seem to talk about it. And we'd rather hear distractions from it than listen to others who might try to share the same fear.
Effective-Ebb-2805@reddit
"For if society lacks the unity that derives from the fact that the relationships between its parts are exactly regulated, that unity resulting from the harmonious articulation of its various functions assured by effective discipline and if, in addition, society lacks the unity based upon the commitment of men's wills to a common objective, then it is no more than a pile of sand that the least jolt or the slightest puff will suffice to scatter".
— Moral Education (1925) Emile Durkheim
Yes... But it is not only an effect of collapse. It is also a cause. It feeds itself and speeds/ensures collapse.
brickout@reddit
I think it's mostly been a slow build into extreme stress forced on us by a long-term effort by the rich to steal everything we have. "Elites" have always done this, and we are just on the latest, grandest example of that. This particular wave has been building in the US in extreme fashion since Reagan. And the political coup by MAGA has been building since Nixon.
I think the vast, vast majority of people don't think about collapse, they just know that they are stresses, their quality of life decreases year after year, and they watch the rich people get wildly, wildly rich, powerful, and untouchable.
Life isn't fair, but it could be a whole lot more fair if we didn't reward rich socio/psychopaths with unlimited power.
But for those who can read trends and pay attention, yes, collapse weighs heavy. I think what weighs even heavier, at least for me, is I have to pretend to be okay and keep going to work and keep paying bills and act like everything is normal, or else I lose my job and my home and family, etc.
As a neurodivergent, I've had to mask my entire life. Now I'm masking at a whole new level.
proconlib@reddit
If you look back in global history, there are almost always widespread shifts in social attitudes and behavior as societies collapse. What specific aspect caused which specific individual to feel or act in a specific way is impossible to say, but, yes, collapse leads to movements like nihilism, anarchism, fascism, etc. And, yes, these reactions are often contrary to each other, because different people have different interpretations of what's happening and what they think will fix it.
You can even see some of this in the responses to OP.
Ok_Possibility_4354@reddit
Yes— modern zoochosis in humans
Dougallearth@reddit
In a nutshell. I want to make a reality TV show -- I'm a human get me out of here
Sknowles12@reddit
Excellent post!
Viridian_Crane@reddit
I think it's tied more to social and economy stresses.
Derrickmb@reddit
It’s nutritional deficiencies. Carbs are low energy sources and limit O2 saturation and increase baseline CO2 levels. Makes people not think straight.
AngilinaB@reddit
Partly, but also partly because life is harder because of collapse. The cost of living is high, interest rates and landlords are making having a home precarious. Heating costs more than it ever did. Employment is insecure. Services are to the bone. These things are all symptoms of collapse but even for the unaware, these symptoms themselves cause mental ill health.
Sure, I'm down because of collapse, but also my wages aren't worth what they were 10 years ago, I can't work any extra hours because the state is unable to provide education and health care (where I live we have socialised health care) for my disabled kid, even private waiting lists are lengthy, his childhood is getting away from us. Food and fuel costs so much more proportionally, I own my home but struggle to afford maintenance. Low level crime and asb is increasing, the hospital I work in is more dangerous than it was because people are at breaking point. I see more people without a home than I did. Life is much harder than it ever was, for lots of people, because of collapse, but most people don't have to know about collapse to be miserable. The symptoms of it are enough.
OregonHotPocket@reddit
I think the main cause of the majority of mental health issues right now is social media and continuing to feed on it and not live your own life. Living through a few (online) is not good for you.
TiTiLiGo@reddit
i would think so that it sometimes might be the case, just as how denial as a psychological coping/defence mechanism can be both passive and active. it’s a feature, not a bug, of collapsing societies to see mental health problems SKYROCKET