Touchless vs. brush car washes — which actually causes less long-term damage to paint and clear coat?
Posted by EvelynClede@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 77 comments
primehandcarwash@reddit
As a hand car wash guy, I’d say touchless beats brush for paint safety. Brush washes can trap grit and drag it over your clear coat, causing swirls and fine scratches over time. Touchless avoids that, but the stronger chemicals can strip wax faster.
Best for long-term paint? Safe hand wash.
Professional-Row9754@reddit
Tunnel cleans car good but leave clear coat damage touchless is safe but but doesn’t clean car good enough you have to add a hand wash in every month
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
Both. The brushes because they can be full of dirt and grit, and touchless because they use extra harsh chemicals to compensate for the lack of mechanical agitation.
Only way to wash a car is with the two bucket method.
UmatterWHENiMATTER@reddit
2 bucket 1 time. Foam cannon 1x/week forever thereafter.
glasswings363@reddit
The problem with this statement is that cars that aren't show-princes deserve to be washed too.
Also the traditional two-bucket method must have been invented to keep kids busy at their chores. The more obvious hand-washing technique works better: "buy enough microfiber to finish the job, 4-head" and "don't dip dirty towels in the clean-towel bucket."
It should be exactly like how a nurse washes a patient's butt. Don't go back with a dirty wipe.
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
Who said regular cars can’t be washed with the two bucket method?
It’s not difficult.
It’s literally just a bucket of clean water next to the soapy water that you can dip your sponge/mitt into after swabbing the car, and before going back to the soap.
You’re making it sound like it’s complicated.
“the more obvious handwashing technique works better”
Which is exactly what the two bucket method is 🤷♂️
glasswings363@reddit
Suppose it's 38 degrees and sunny but was well into the 20s last night.
How do you ensure the glass won't crack when you wash your winter car? That's what I mean when it's a regular car, it doesn't get to hibernate.
agingcausescancer@reddit
I’m going to assume you don’t live somewhere where it does get that cold because this doesn’t happen. The water may freeze and prevent the window from opening easily but windows don’t crack because they have a little water on them.
catanmast3r@reddit
Well, if its 35 degrees outside, you aren't hand washing with cold water. Hot water mixed with cold temps can absolutely Crack a window
agingcausescancer@reddit
Washing a window with hot water in 35F weather is not cracking a window.
ratrodder49@reddit
Dunno about you but I’m not hand-washing my car at all when it’s below 50 outside. Lol. Touchless wash takes care of removing the road grime now and then through the winter.
ipodaholicdan@reddit
That’s the point they’re trying to make, it’s not always practical to hand wash and most people aren’t going to spend the extra time on their daily drivers
titanicdiamond@reddit
Bruh I hate washing cars. Touchless or the do it yourself carwash all day. Touchless for a wash. Do it yourself when you want to rinse the salt off real quick coming home from a salty adventure like skiing or beaching.
The big factor for me is that touchless doesn't risk damaging things like mirrors, wipers, or antennas nearly as much. I'd be more worried about losing a mirror or something than the clear coat, personally. Modern paint should be more than durable enough, especially since cars these days are optimized and mass produced.
I agree with your argument absolutely. Daily goes to car wash because who cares. But if I had my dream Gt3 RS it would only get detailed by pros. Telling you to have a pro detail your car doesn't answer your question.
HuntStag@reddit
Wash clay bar Polish and carnuba for the gt3 rs
The_Good_Constable@reddit
I don't need to ensure the glass won't crack, physics does that for me. lol. How on earth would water on the windshield when it's 20 degrees cause it to crack? Are you dumping boiling water on it or something?
glasswings363@reddit
I'm saying it's necessary to use cold water in cold weather. People do get the bright idea of using the hottest water possible, crack the windshield, and cry about how impossible it is to maintain a car in winter.
The_Good_Constable@reddit
In my 40 years I've never seen or heard of anybody hand-washing their car when it's 20 degrees outside, and I live in a part of the world where daytime highs are in the 20's or lower for months on end. It's drive through car washes or nothing at all in wintertime.
You've got some batshit masochists in your area if they're hand-washing their cars outside when it's below freezing. That's fucking nuts.
glasswings363@reddit
It's pressure wash above freezing here, either at a self-wash or being mindful of the runoff. Only hand-on steps are a quick wipe down before rinsing (maybe) and drying (probably just locks, seals, wipers).
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
Well, you’d just use common sense and not do it when there’s a possibility of cracking the glass..or wash the car and just wipe the glass.
I feel that you’re overthinking this 👍
khauser24@reddit
It definitely can be difficult ... some of us have mobility issues that make regular car washing unlikely without automated help, but we still want our cars to look great.
s3rgioru3las@reddit
Yep don't use the two bucket method. Use a clean microfiber towel soaked in the clean bucket per section of panel and don't dip it back into the bucket just get another one. Detailers are moving on to this. I use like 12 towels so it isn't too bad and quicker too.
Triple-Play-NYY@reddit
Ah, yes! I now use this method as well. Bought multiple microfiber cloths for washing. Get one soaked in the soap bucket, wash car section, then when ready to move on to next section, grab a new, clean cloth and repeat. No dirt going back into the bucket because you're not using the same, dirty cloth!
DanceEng@reddit
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Shit is crazy. “Only way” like dude rinseless is awesome
Brynheld@reddit
I've always washed my basic dailies with 2 buckets. I'm confused as hell Why you think it's an overly involved process reserved for show cars.
cle7756@reddit
I swear the arguments against touchless are just made up. I hand wash my car but when I’m lazy I take it to a touchless wash. Those “extra harsh” chemicals don’t damage anything. Not even my spray on ceramic coat.
There’s no one on these car subreddits who shows up with a damaged car from a touch less wash
captstinkybutt@reddit
Excuse me sir I had a whole flock of birds fly over and shit all the way across my windshield, hood and roof. Not doing that shit by hand. lol
Island_In_The_Sky@reddit
Man I’ve had a handful of expensive luxury cars and I put them through the gas station machine bc I don’t really give a fuck and guess what, they still have paint, and I’m still alive… it’s not the “ONLY” way
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
Well for someone who does ‘give a fuck’ about their cars, the car merely retaining its paint is not what they’re aiming for.
Can guarantee you that those gas station car washes leave micro-swirls and abrasions that a proper hand wash will never introduce.
If you don’t care, thats up to you, but for people who do - yes a proper two-bucket wash is the only way to do it properly.
Worth-Salamander-836@reddit
Thoughts on the self serve stalls with the pressure washer guns?
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
They’re ok, but I wouldn’t use them on a car with any intrinsic value. I personally like to know what chemicals go onto my cars.
In saying that - I’ve taken older cars into them, just use the pressure washer to clean the broom bristles if you intend to use it.
The_Analog_Man@reddit
I was going to mention spraying the foam brush. I’ve found the brushes off their hook touching the filthy concrete way too many times.
Fresh_Internal_6085@reddit
Exactly 👍
Worth-Salamander-836@reddit
I don't think I've ever used the broom but cleaning cleaning it with the pressure washer is a good idea
SadAcanthocephala521@reddit
They work well, just use the presoak, go around the car twice and then use the high pressure soap and then high pressure rinse. Giving the presoak time to work helps you avoid having to use the brush which you should never use on paint.
Worth-Salamander-836@reddit
Cool, thanks
CanadianTrump420Swag@reddit
Don't use the foam brush. Just soap setting then rinse. Then hand dry.
ChartAncient3269@reddit
They work well, but be very careful about getting too close to the car with the high pressure setting. I’ve taken clear coat off by making that mistake…
Salt_Watercress63@reddit
I use touchless but I also make sure my cars are waxed every six months. So far so good.
Totallynormalname_@reddit
Touchless. Brushes damage your paint and leave swirls afterwards
Puffman92@reddit
A da polisher will undo 90% of the damaged from brush car washes. I do it every other year and and it only takes like an hour or so.
Beautiful_Ad_4813@reddit
I mean I’ll run my cars through the auto wash, brushes and all, because many times, I don’t have the time to scrub it myself 2-4 times a week.
Touchless is one step above just running the garden hose on it and call it a day, no point in wasting money on that
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Touchless of course.
Imaginary_Golf7211@reddit
You are aware how caustic the chemicals in "brushless" are right?
AcrobaticDrive@reddit
Corrosive (hazard class 8). Acidic pre-soaks are the nastiest by a long shot. Similar chemicals are used for touch or touchless. Touchless uses more chemicals per wash by a long shot.
glasswings363@reddit
A little milder than Purple Power.
s3rgioru3las@reddit
Brushes destroy paint over time. Ive seen two cars after a few years one which only went to brush car washes and another to only touchless. The swirls was crazy.
Touchless I guess some of the chemicals can be harsh especially if it advertises bug remover, but you can choose the cheapest option at a touchless car and that way it's only a few many chemicals. It's also rinsed off very quickly so I mean, activation time matters.
Not to mention that most of the time they're stripping the waxes on top of the clear coat. Which you can replace with any simple spray wax. You can add a ceramic coating that further protects the layers underneath and acts as the sacrificial layer and a good one can last several months no matter which touchless you go to.
After 4 years with a brand new car the paint is flawless apart from rock chips. I also just rinse off the car with only water at self car washes too and that can sometimes be enough.
Just replace the waxes after a touchless if you're worried about it with any simple spray wax. Get the cheaper option on the automatic touchless wash or just use the self service rinse only. They're getting harder and harder to find though.
AcrobaticDrive@reddit
Better touch car washes use neophrene brushes. And the right chemical balance is important. I prefer touch less, even though it uses 5 to 10 times more chem per wash.
The_Analog_Man@reddit
Touchless for my daily driver SUV. Foam cannon, pressure wash, and 3 bucket method (separate one for wheels) for my weekend car. Takes just over 1 hour.
NoConsideration6934@reddit
Touchless is better. Brushes are often loaded with dirt from other vehicles and essentially act as sandpaper, never ever use a brush wash if possible.
Some people will say that touchless isn't very good either, but in my experience it's much much better than the alternative. Best is to handwash of course, but for someone who needs to wash their vehicle every few days it's not really an option.
JaKr8@reddit
We have our cars professionally detailed. The person that does it says when you go through the wash, always go touchless and put the most basic setting you can on the wash...not the settings with additional soap or protection. And we get the mid-tier detailing so the exterior looks good for about 3 years. And then we either get rid of the car or do it again.
400footceiling@reddit
I have a 20 year old vehicle that has never been through a brush or touch wash… ever, and has zero swirl marks in the clear coat. I have used the touchless washes in the winter months but prefer bucket washing whenever possible.
Substantial_Team6751@reddit
The long term problem is not washing / waxing your car properly. Most people though don't care for their daily driver.
If you are a car guy and care, then don't use either except in emergecy and then give your paint a coat of wax or whatever a couple of times a year.
thecanadiandriver101@reddit
Touchless is infinitely better than brush. Infinitely
Bitmugger@reddit
How bad is pressure washing at home with a 40deg nozzle (1600psi) and using car wash soap? No brushes
Sea_Leadership_6968@reddit
What about those waterless sprays? Spray it on and wipe off with a microfiber towel.
Putrid-Function5666@reddit
But dust it off first. I love those sprays and my California Car Duster.
Binford6100User@reddit
Depends on how much you like the car.
Wife's car has a subscription to the local flappy brush equipped drive thru. Mine gets a touch less subscription. The weekend toy gets a hand wash as needed.
Nothing wrong with any of them, but/use what works best for your situation.
Putrid-Function5666@reddit
Sold a new, black, Mercedes E350 to a guy at a time when we were offering free car wases for life (but no disclaimer) He came in EVERY DAY for 3 years, to a dealership's yucky car wash.
After 3 years; his car still looked like any other 3-year old black Mercedes.
Nothing wrong with either type of car wash. Yeah, I would not take a $300,000 Ferrari through any car wash, but other than that.
AH, but another story. sold a nice used SL ($80,000 used) to a customer. lot porter ran it through the dealerships car wash. Somehow the side-rotating flappy thing hooked the driver's side mirror and did not let go. Not only did it break the mirror off, but the mirror stayed connected and proceeded to bang the car all the way down the side as it was spinning with the side-rotating-flappy thing. Needless to say, customer cancelled the sale and I lost a nice commission.
Putrid-Function5666@reddit
Sold a new, black, Mercedes E350 to a guy at a time when we were offering free car wases for life (but no disclaimer) He came in EVERY DAY for 3 years, to a dealership's yucky car wash.
After 3 years; his car still looked like any other 3-year old black Mercedes.
Nothing wrong with either type of car wash. Yeah, I would not take a $300,000 Ferrari through any car wash, but other than that.
AH, but another story. sold a nice used SL ($80,000 used) to a customer. lot porter ran it through the dealerships car wash. Somehow the side-rotating flappy thing hooked the driver's side mirror and did not let go. Not only did it break the mirror off, but the mirror stayed connected and proceeded to bang the car all the way down the side as it was spinning with the side-rotating-flappy thing. Needless to say, customer cancelled the sale and I lost a nice commission.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
Someone told me once "light touch = light scratch"
Imaginary_Golf7211@reddit
No wash=rust in many parts of the country in the winter....scratches can be corrected...rust takes major dollars to fix.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
Or just use touch free and take care of rust and avoid scratches.
Imaginary_Golf7211@reddit
Not that easy. The chemical they spray to loosen up the dirt in a touchess is very caustic. It has to sit on the dirt-break it down to have it hosed off. Either one has pros/cons. Touchless isn't the cure all.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
Maybe not but its better than light scratch that will cost you money down the line for a paint detail every time you get a carwash, and its better than no wash at all which will eat your paint faster than the chemical additives they spray on the car during the wash.
Italiancrayzybread@reddit
So, anecdotally, I used to be a paint chemist.
One of the tests we would do on paints was a "solvent resistance" test.
You had to essentially get a paper towel or finger gauze and wet it with some MEK. You had to move your finger back and forth with exactly 2 pounds of force, the number of back and forths before you wore down the paint down to the substrate was essentially its "solvent resistance." 100 passes was considered excellent and generally, once you passed 100, it didn't really matter how hard or how many times you went across that paint, that sucker was not coming off.
Well cured paints, especially epoxies (which automotive paints are made from) could have hundreds or thousands of passes without a scratch. While I'm certain with enough passes, you could get some off eventually, there is a certain point where the number of passes you would need, although finite, would essentially be infinite.
All this is not to say that you can't scratch well cured paint if you tried, the point is that there is a threshhold where you can touch something so lightly, that it would essentially never leave a noticable scratch in the typical lifetime of the paint. It's all relative.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
The fiber bristles the carwash spinners have create micro-scratches in the clear coat that you wont notice until the light is directly on it. Most people wont care about such things, but since OP is asking about it, ill assume they do.
Butt_bird@reddit
I just drive around in the rain.
Naive-Point-9854@reddit
I love how no one factors in the quality of OEM paint and clearcoat. That’s the one thing most detailers forget because they’ve never painted a car. Primer and base coat is all waterbase crap. That’s why your new car paint warranty is only 3 years. They have calculated the minimum requirement to cover the car so don’t expect much from it.
glasswings363@reddit
Heck, my first reaction was "What? You can't have water-based polyurethane because even moisture makes the isocyanates kick off!" Like how Gorilla Glue foams and expands in water. But apparently chemistry has advanced in our lifetimes.
There really are polymerizing acrylic-urethane paints that use ammonia-water as the solvent. They do some clever things with the pH shift as the ammonia dries and the resulting film is a single huge molecule with the same chemical properties. (Mechanical properties don't sound quite as good.)
https://www.gantrade.com/blog/the-chemistry-of-waterborne-polyurethane-coatings
It's not like they switched to Super Kem-Tone interior paint for car bodies.
T2kizz@reddit
Rinseless wash systems are a good alternative
glasswings363@reddit
Detailers spray down cars all the time, it's safe with the right setup, technique, and intact paint. Have you ever seen a detailer attack a car with cow's favorite scratching post?
Clegko@reddit
Yes, but they weren't highly rated.
Last_Still_3709@reddit
Seems we see the particulars about washing methods (and oil changing intervals) come up a lot. First off, if for whatever reason you don’t/ can’t garage your car then hand wringing over washing method isn’t a good use of time. Secondly, any way you wash it is better than not washing it. In other words, don’t let your inability to wash it the exact right way keep you from doing it at all.
alanbdee@reddit
I wash my cars regularly using both. We’ve had one, a 2000 4Runner for 23 years. I’d say about once a month. Its paint is only now starting to fade. I did stop taking it to a brushed one after it ripped the rear wiper off. None of my other cars have shown any problems. In fact, I’d say they look better than unwashed cars. A lot better. So sure, wiping it down with a diaper is probably better. But let’s be practical. Adding a car wash every so often when you’re filling up with gas is convenient and good enough.
trickedx5@reddit
I paid $30 a month for 1 hand car wash
boatsnhosee@reddit
The brush ones are terrible
docnsx01@reddit
the few times i’m dead of winter i take my car to a car wash here that has a moving sidewalk inside and no machines all done by humans inside as it passed diff stages , obviously a big blower at end and they use air guns etc outside to finish up ! not ideal but here in northeast car is costed but i still want the salt and debris off periodically, nicer weather it is done by me