No growth in title - still Application Developer after 13 YoE
Posted by horribleGuy3115@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 64 comments
Have been wondering—does it actually matter to anyone if you’re still in the same title 13 years into your career?
I genuinely love development work. If anything, it’s more exciting now than ever. With all the frontier tech companies investing heavily in building better models and pushing coding benchmarks, it feels like our work as engineers is only getting more interesting and impactful.
But sometimes it still bugs me. No matter how much your salary grows or how strong your skills are, you can end up stuck with the same title simply because you choose to stay in engineering and not move into people management.
Meanwhile, those who go into management and showcase your work to the E and C suites have a very visible progression—Director → Senior Director → VP—clearly reflecting their growth. And you’re still sitting there as “App Developer” or “Senior App Developer.”
Does anyone else feel this way, or am I overthinking the importance of titles?
melbourne_al@reddit
Just whack a Senior or Lead infront of it on linkedin
CodelinesNL@reddit
And then hope they won't call references? 😄
ghdana@reddit
I think generally people would understand if the company only has 1 title that someone with 13 years of experience is at least Sr(hopefully ha).
Even in the US the major background check companies allow you to put your "official" title into the tool which can be different than what you're resume/Linkedin says. Never had anyone question it.
CodelinesNL@reddit
That's not what I meant. The issue with changing your title is that there's a risk they're going to call your references. If that reference then tells them you did not have that title, you're likely to be blacklisted.
The chance isn't extremely high, but it's not exactly zero either. If you want to do this, just check in with whoever your reference first.
I did this with my last assignment; the title on my LinkedIn is different from the official one since externals were not allowed to have the Staff Engineer title officially, even though it was my role. I asked my manager beforehand and he was okay with it.
ghdana@reddit
I'm saying that at my company(and previous places I've worked) we understand the world is not black and white. That would not get you blacklisted here if you said you were "Senior Engineer" and we call to find out and someone says "oh he was just a software engineer" we wouldn't blacklist somone.
CodelinesNL@reddit
Your company is not the norm I’m afraid.
maybe_madison@reddit
My experience spending a bit of time working in the EU and most of my career in the US (with EU co-workers) is "official" titles matter a lot more in Europe. Everywhere I've worked in the US has a policy along the lines of "use whatever title you think is appropriate as long as it's not misleading".
CodelinesNL@reddit
Hhere in Europe it's harder to fire someone (as it should be), so companies have more of an incentive to be thorough when hiring people for senior roles to make sure they are not inflating their experience. This is why it's very common to ask for references, and these do get called quite often too. But it's not like this won't happen in the US.
People are focussing too much on the title, which isn't even the point. People want to weed out the people who lie about their experience. So when they call a reference and that reference tells them there is a mismatch in the title, it's generally enough of a red flag to not proceed.
I personally can't stand how people here (in this sub, but also Reddit in general), who are supposed to be system thinkers, can't understand why a mismatch between your title on your resume and what your reference will tell whoever calls is an issue.
maybe_madison@reddit
Of the two companies I've worked for, one only has numeric levels and one has no levels. In both cases, if a potential future employer called for a reference they'd be fine with anything that isn't actively misleading (ie, "senior sre", "staff sre", "lead sre", etc would be fine but "CTO" or "product manager" wouldn't). From talking with friends and co-workers, this is pretty common among US companies.
Companies also acknowledge that level names are often not comparable between companies - if someone is a "Lead MTS" at Salesforce, it would be more useful to just put "Senior SWE" on their resume. (Obviously Salesforce is well known enough that you could look up what "Lead MTS" means, but if you're a "Software Developer III" at a random state bank, it's more useful to convert that to the closest meaningful equivalent).
ghdana@reddit
I'm talking about multiple Fortune 100 companies in the US I've worked at.
melbourne_al@reddit
Titles dont really mean much the countries I've worked in. If you've got a fair few years of experience just whack a senior in there. I've you've been in a team lead position you can put lead. Theyre going to be able to tell by your number of years of experience and job blurb what you were doing etc.
It probably matters more with very senior leadership roles I suppose.
preetishpreetish@reddit
My AI startup is looking for a full stack dev remote working pls DM if anyone is interested
unconceivables@reddit
The main problem here is that people reviewing your resume will think you were completely stagnant for 13 years if they don't see any progression. You'll have to make up for that by showing ambition and initiative in your resume. Just going through the motions for 13 years isn't going to be a great look.
horribleGuy3115@reddit (OP)
I am not worried about my resume as my skills and projects will justify that and have been with 3 companies within the span. And I think modifying the job title with the last company in the resume will not be red flag if the role and duties justifes the title.
unconceivables@reddit
If you can show progression and you have confidence and skills, I wouldn't worry. Moving into people management as an employee is something I'd never do, so I would definitely understand that.
PayLegitimate7167@reddit
Same never a senior But salary has grown but modestly
Capable-Morning-9518@reddit
good content!
Goingone@reddit
Compensation is what matters.
Titles aren’t standardized across companies (look at all the entry level CTOs out there….).
And to me it sounds like you’re living the dream…nice work not getting pulled into the higher level BS after all those years.
ninetofivedev@reddit
It matters and it doesn't.
To your point, compensation and skill set is what matters from OPs perspective.
However, it's going to probably get your resume tossed in the bin from a screening perspective.
My advice to everyone in this terrible world of ATS: Make up titles that match industry norms on your resume. Senior/Staff/Principal/Lead. These are words you need to be using to describe yourself. Also don't use "Application developer", use Software Engineer.
It's basically just SEO.
No, you don't have to worry about the company coming back and saying you "lied" on your resume. This does not happen. I'm not rejecting a candidate I like simply because they're playing the game to get me to see their resume in the first place.
devfuckedup@reddit
eeeh making up titles is IMO a no go feel free to bullshit the rest but titles are the one thing HR does regularly verify
tommyTurds@reddit
It gets worse if you’re at one of the big tech companies where people know the “terminal” levels.
If you’re at Google and stuck at L3 for years, that looks bad in an interview
Drauren@reddit
Is that even a thing? Pretty sure you'd get separated way before then.
devfuckedup@reddit
yeah they would let you go you can sit at L5 from what I know but bellow that you would last 2 years max unless your a new grad.
Animostas@reddit
It's rare but i know 1-2 new grads who kind of full through the cracks. Frequent reorgs, manager changed too many times, no one advocating for engineers
Itsalongwaydown@reddit
how many years have they been there? after a several years idk if I'd call them new grads anymore hahaha but I know what youre saying.
tommyTurds@reddit
I know of at least one case, but it’s certainly not common. Which is why it would be a problem. It is pretty damn hard to get stuck at L3, so maybe it’s not the best example.
I know of several cases at other companies though. Some are even for very legit reasons (medical issues, personal choices, etc…).
devfuckedup@reddit
I don think that can even happen I know L4s who got terminated for "you dont seem like you want to get promoted"
Crazy-Platypus6395@reddit
So, just move to the manager track? Devs cap at principal usually. Which is the equivalent of a director at my workplace.
zninjamonkey@reddit
You can write whatever you want though
Spimflagon@reddit
Think of it like this: your job title is still spelled the same. It's just pronounced differently.
Ten years ago you would say "I'm an application developer?"
Now you say "I'm an application developer."
To anyone that matters, the job name doesn't matter. To be honest, neither does the job description. The salary matters, and the respect does.
I think people managers get title changes because they need them. It's hard to quantify soft skills so they get built into a title like an ID badge; it says "you give me THIS much respect, and THIS is the domain in which I have authority." Whereas in a more tech oriented role, you have output that is demonstrable in volume and complexity. You have authority because, well, you're able to do the thing.
suborder-serpentes@reddit
It’s fashionable to say that title doesn’t matter, but I think it does end up mattering. Especially if you have taken on more and more responsibility. Then it’s dishonest of the company not to acknowledge this in some way.
eronth@reddit
Most of the places I've been only have like 2-3 titles for devs, and at least one of those titles is reserved for "you'll probably need some training first". They're also used extremely inconsistently across companies. I genuinely just don't pay attention to my title anymore, just my roles.
bluetista1988@reddit
I don't care that much about the title for two reasons:
Scope of responsibility and compensation matter more
When interviewing for new jobs, you can list titles as whatever you want
YK5Djvx2Mh@reddit
Titles often correlate with pay bands and stock packages.
WittySophisticate@reddit
I know someone who moved From Systems Engineer to Senior Systems Engineer and was let go after few months
yuzuandgin@reddit
A title is just that a title. People fixate on it, it's why you have people running around as "Seniors" 3 years out of college. Something for ego to latch on to and it's cheaper than a raise. Focus on your own growth and make sure you're being paid a fair amount, that's all you can really do.
joshdotmn@reddit
Titles aren’t just a title. Titles gate things.
OP: titles are often given to those who are great at marketing themselves, less so their work. Make sure you’re being visible.
Oakw00dy@reddit
Gates work both ways. If you've been a CTO, you damn well better be able to find another job as a CTO or have a good reason why you're stepping down (the default being "you're a failure"). I'd submit that it's a lot easier to transition to management track than back to being an IC.
Deranged40@reddit
Nah, titles are literally just titles.
13YoE? I'm putting "Senior Application Engineer" on the resume, at the very least. Who's gonna take him to court over that? The company hiring him or the company he works for? The company hiring him isn't gonna ask for any proof of "Senior" title acquisition if they even call your current employer as a reference at all.
lenswipe@reddit
This.
Companies often won't hire(or even interview you) for
$titleunless you already hold$titleand have done so for$timePeriod.jmking@reddit
Ok, I registered an LLC and gave myself the title of CEO and CTO.
I guess I get to interview for CTO of Google now?
hooahest@reddit
Part of the process of getting hired is marketing yourself. Call yourself Advanced Monkey Poo Poo Savant if that's what it'll make the companies take a look at you, as long as it works.
It's up to the company to make sure that you can actually walk the walk and aren't just holding the title of AMPPS for nothing.
jmking@reddit
But it's not the title, it's the experience that matters. I agree that you should put appropriate titles for the job you did at any given company, but to get an interview for a Senior or Staff engineer at a big tech company requires you to have Senior or Staff level experience of similar size and scope on your resume regardless of what your titles were.
PoopsCodeAllTheTime@reddit
But u can do the promotion at your CV when the time comes
jmking@reddit
Unless the company isn't a tech company and don't have the granular titles for in-house engineers like they do in tech.
Basically call yourself whatever you want. Titles aren't regulated or anything. Put on your CV the title that best represents the job you do.
They don't. Anyone can call themselves anything. I could be CTO of my 2 person company. That title opens zero doors because everything is relative.
horribleGuy3115@reddit (OP)
That true I feel, new hires with my experience come in and do similar impactful work as me are technical Directors and that kinda hits when you open the irg heiarchy in Teams sometimes.
Smallpaul@reddit
Have you asked why you haven’t been promoted to Technical Director?
ConspicuousPineapple@reddit
That depends entirely on the company. As for the resume... you can just put whatever as your title, so long as it aligns with what you were actually doing, nobody cares.
sweetno@reddit
phatmike595@reddit
I have never cared about my title, but in many organizations (and on resumes) they matter.
MonotoneTanner@reddit
Titles are meaningless. I went from “software engineer” to “business Analyst” and got a substantial raise. The work is basically a tech lead but my title is bs
CodelinesNL@reddit
This sounds like you also stayed at the same company for 13 years. I think if that's the case, that's a much bigger issue than the title.
casualPlayerThink@reddit
Titles normally would not matter. You can write whatever you want, just check the chaotic titles on LinkedIn.
Buuuut there is one place where it matters: in your resume.
Most of the advancement is because of soft skills, connections, or being in the right place at the right time. Yes, it is true, with hard work, skill set, etc., you can reach a good career. IF you spend long years at the same place where there is actual career path. In the EU, the past \~15 years were about "flat hierarchy" type of companies, which means, there is no career growth there, everything is set, nothing will change.
1000Ditto@reddit
usually it is something like
intern junior dev middle dev 1 middle dev 2 senior dev 1 senior dev 2
Then from there, there are mutiple paths, some lateral, including: - techlead - staff dev - teamlead - architect - technical director - principal dev
Some other roles not on the technical track include: - people management (eng manager) - product management (tpm) - program management (release coordinator-esque roles)
You could ask for the senior/staff (I presume close to that?) title officially, or just put it on the resume as your best judgement.
Paddington_the_Bear@reddit
Proof here that titles are made up.
Smallpaul@reddit
Your title can matter a lot when you change jobs.
Many companies have five or more IC titles. Just ask for a better one.
SYNDK8D@reddit
Man I would have left if my title wasn’t senior after 5 at that point 😅
throwaway_0x90@reddit
Meh, is it important to you personally to climb the corporate latter? If so then it matters, if not then nobody else cares.
No-Economics-8239@reddit
At this point, I could care less about my title. Compensation and benefits are the bottom line. Your influence is much more than just your title. It's all about soft skills. Which come in handy trying to negotiate the compensation and benefits.
Climbing the ladder is corporate bullshit for prove to me you can take on additional responsibilities. Which is just the carrot they dangle in front of you to intice you to demonstrate you are a team player. Which is corporate speak for provide more value than you're being paid. Which is the whole point of being an employee.
They want you to care about that title. They want you to chase after it and out perform the competition that also wants it. You can have it. I just want to be paid what I'm worth.
There is a point to be said for being treated with respect. But, to me, you don't do that with a title. That's in how we treat each other. They treating you okay? Aside from that title you feel you're missing? Because I don't know if I've just become more cynical in my old age or if it's always been like this. I don't see a lot of that loyalty they ask for when it comes time for some restructuring.
Sufficient_Dig207@reddit
Feeling the same. In currently role for 4 years. Thought about going to management track but still IC.
But kind of changed my way of thinking now. Enjoying my freedom of IC so that I can continue to play with AI, instead of endless meetings.
Sufficient_Dig207@reddit
Now I am maintaining an open source repo, I gave myself a title creator and lead architect of the 10xProductivity methodology, 😂
DanManPanther@reddit
Are you stuck in the same role? Are you happy in that role? Does your scope or impact map to a manager, director, or something else?
Do you run projects? Propose them? Define or influence the technical vision, strategy, or roadmap?
It isn't the title you have, it's the role you fill. (Disclaimer, some recruiters care a lot about title).
If it bugs you - then listen to that. It isn't because you choose to stay in engineering. Titles can and do grow. App Developer -> Senior App Developer... Staff Engineer. Principal Engineer. Etc. The specifics vary a lot. Senior Staff at one company can be a much better role than Principal at another. But there are titles that grow on the IC track at plenty of companies - if that's of interest.
devfuckedup@reddit
That’s basically how my career went for the first 10 years too. I was just a DevOps Engineer — sysadmin before that, though that title kind of went out of style in SaaS. I’ve also had the title Software Engineer. It really depends on the company.
It felt like around 2017 there was a shift where titles like Jr., Sr., Staff, and Principal became more common and started to matter more to people. I eventually went from Sr. DevOps Engineer to Director of Infrastructure, and now my current title is Sr. ML Engineer II. Where I work, there is no “III” level — after II it goes to Staff, then VP. There are Principals, but they’re extremely rare. I only know of one Principal and one Staff, while there are probably around 25 Sr. ML Engineer IIs out of roughly 600 engineers.
So my main point is: to get a title bump, you often have to change jobs. But depending on the companies you’ve worked at, the fact that your title hasn’t changed may not reflect badly on you at all. I really wouldn’t worry about it too much.
Wyomingisfull@reddit
If you like what you do it doesn't matter. If you're keen on having higher levels of impact or larger compensation package increases, then it does.
That said, the longer you sit in an organization at the same title, the harder it will be to break out of that box should you decide you want to.