Importing bottled water from Fiji / Norway / etc. to North America should be illegal, to reduce climate change
Posted by flopsyplum@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 91 comments
Pristine-Aspect-3086@reddit
shipping things overseas in shipping containers is much more efficient than you assume it is
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
And very polluting!
Pristine-Aspect-3086@reddit
the least polluting of all shipping methods
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
Extremely misleading.
It's least polluting per kilometer, but since we abuse the fuck out of it, it's the 2nd largest source of shipping pollution in the world 2nd only to trucks.
At the end of the day, per km efficiency doesn't matter as much as the final total.
Pristine-Aspect-3086@reddit
as long as we need to ship things, per km efficiency does matter, and we do need to ship things
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
"Do we need to ship anything at all? [Y/N]" is a deliberately reductive false dichotomy designed to steer the conversation away from "do we need to ship as much as we do?"
Shipping freaking water is a good example of something we could stop doing, to decrease the pollution.
Perhaps when we get pollution under control we can go back to shipping Fiji water, as a treat.
CapitalStandard4275@reddit
What? It's a very real question, a valid one, and if the answer is even slightly "yes" (ie. we need to ship at least minimally, let's say medicine) then pollution per km is absolutely a hugely import metric.
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
Pollution per km is 50% of the equation, but the other 50% is "how much shipping is actually necessary". If we're shipping tons of stuff that doesn't actually need to be shipped, reducing that will cut down on unnecessary pollution.
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
Fiji imports lots of stuff. The container ship is going to there regardless. Whether we load it up with exports or not doesn’t materially impact the fuel it’s going to burn really.
BigRichard1990@reddit
You got them! Finish him!
Boris41029@reddit
We do need to ship things. We don't need to ship water from Fiji.
ERagingTyrant@reddit
Shipping one liter of water from Fiji to the US will produce 20 to 30 grams of CO2.
Producing the water bottle will emit 80 to 200 grams of CO2.
Producing one hamburger patty generate 3000-4000 grams of CO2.
Do with that info as you will.
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
That's weird you suddenly stopped talking.
OrderOfMagnitude@reddit
"A ship's only pollution is CO2"
Do I have that right?
ERagingTyrant@reddit
Shipping one liter of water from Fiji to the US will produce 20 to 30 grams of CO2.
Producing the bottle will emit 80 to 200 grams of CO2.
Producing one hamburger patty generate 3000-4000 grams of CO2.
Do with that info as you will.
flopsyplum@reddit (OP)
Holy shit!
aquatone61@reddit
You think imported water bottles affect climate change? Oh you sweet summer child…..
flopsyplum@reddit (OP)
Are water bottles not transported using cargo ships across the oceans?
aquatone61@reddit
They are. Just picking bottled water out of all the things that travel by ship to complain about is hilarious.
I’ll give you that container ships are harmful to the environment, the fuel they burn is bunker oil which is barely a few steps from what comes out of the ground. That being said they are efficient for the volume they carry.
mechadragon469@reddit
Hard disagree. Tax it at $1/bottle and use the funds to directly fund climate change.
Making things illegal because you don’t like them is wrong. You should use tax benefits and rates to influence behavior.
flopsyplum@reddit (OP)
Okay, then why don’t we tax drugs instead of making them illegal?
mechadragon469@reddit
Totally agree. Now anyone buying it from unlicensed distributors should face tax evasion and black market purchases crimes. It’s a win win.
chunkysmalls42098@reddit
Yeah that's what a huge amount of young people are wondering too
noirknight@reddit
And old people too. The original “hippies” are now around 80 years old.
chunkysmalls42098@reddit
Pretty sure most of the OG hippies grew out of that faze and were a part of the war on drugs
alvik@reddit
I like it. We already tax tobacco, alcohol, and cannabis (where applicable)
Exotic_Bill44@reddit
So rather than making it illegal, just make it massively expensive (still punishing people for doing it) and use the funds to try to solve the problem that exists in part because you didn't make it illegal.
mechadragon469@reddit
Where do you draw the line between free market vs economics and the environment. Why don’t we just make it illegal to transport anything more than 50 miles? Would certainly help the environment.
Stock-Swing-797@reddit
Why should this just be applicable to NA?
flopsyplum@reddit (OP)
NA was an example. This applies to all long-distance importation.
old_witness_987@reddit
do you really believe 100% of the material in the bottle os from Norway or Fiji.
Talmadge_Mcgooliger@reddit
doesn't Fiji water specifically say they were carbon neutral because "the boats were going anyway" at one point?
schlaminator@reddit
So they are saying that an empty boat uses the same amount of fuel as a full one? Yeah, that carbon neutral claim is a lie.
Onnimanni_Maki@reddit
This isn't at all a crazy idea. Just bottle the water in Canada or Alaska.
ThoughtCharming8917@reddit
Plastic bottled water needs to be eliminated. Tax it out of existence
HandbagHawker@reddit
maybe we need a better solve for bottled water all together?
Colonol-Panic@reddit
Can we also end the import of any non-native food?
PABLOPANDAJD@reddit
What does it even mean to be native when it comes to food? Dishes? Plants and animals? Crops today are completely unrecognizable to the original “native” crops. Compare corn and maize for example
beachbum818@reddit
Quinoa is not native to the US.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
Anything imported that cannot be grown locally
PABLOPANDAJD@reddit
There are almost no crops on the planet that cannot be grown somewhere in the USA, let alone North America. The only ones that arent largely grown here are due to it being inefficient or not economically viable. So by forcing North America to produce these crops you would be creating a less efficient system, which would only serve to harm things more.
What crops are you trying to ban?
Colonol-Panic@reddit
Did you read the part where I said, sustainably? That means efficient and economical…
oneiric-enema@reddit
No more bananas in Europe?
Colonol-Panic@reddit
Or Wisconsin!
oneiric-enema@reddit
Can Wisconsin still get florida oranges?
Colonol-Panic@reddit
Can Florida get Florida oranges? The entire crop is dying out there.
oneiric-enema@reddit
Fair point. Can Wisconsin still get Texan or Californian oranges? Those areas of citrus production haven't been hit hard with citrus greening blight.
The point of my question is, what range do you have in mind? Is interstate commerce of agricultural products too far? What about different biomes within the state?
Western Washington and eastern Washington are suitable for very different crops, but it does involve getting through a chain of mountains for both sides to have access to the total range of production within the state.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
If I were king, I’d say about 1000mi is far enough for food transport.
More honestly, I’d want to set up a food environmental sustainability regulatory body to set guidelines on the import and transport of every food and vegetable.
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
So, no beef in Anchorage then.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
I didn't say it would be pleasant. Don't live in Anchorage if you love beef. Don't move to London if you love plantains. Eat something that won't dump two tons of carbon from jet fuel.
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
Anchorage’s population can’t be supported on local agriculture.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
What if populations only grew to the sizes their geography could sustainably support??
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
Then the world would have about 70% fewer people in it.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
That sounds good to me. Too many humans are destroying the planet and we’re just artificially prolonging the demise.
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
I don’t see you in line to reduce the population.
Colonol-Panic@reddit
lol you have no idea what I do for work
oneiric-enema@reddit
Does this response imply you reduce the human population for work?
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Colonol-Panic@reddit
Maybe people shouldn’t live there then lol
oneiric-enema@reddit
Interesting, thanks for your responses.
Would that 1000mi cap change in a region with electric freight?
Are there any examples of a good environmental sustainability regulatory body anywhere in the world currently? What would that look like, what sort of criteria or determinations would you expect?
I don't mean any of this in an argumentative way, I'm just curious, you got me thinking.
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beachbum818@reddit
But what will we get our quinoa bowls from?
Reddituser45005@reddit
I love FIJI water. Giving it up is not a sacrifice I’m willing to make. At least not until after the billionaire class gives up their private jets, yachts and mansions.
FudgeAtron@reddit
I did not realize Fiji water is actually bottled in Fiji. I just assumed that was a marketing gimmick.
_877-CASH-NOW_@reddit
Fun story: Fiji had a marketing campaign that said "The label says Fiji because it's not bottled in Cleveland." A study was done and found that the tap water in Cleveland was actually more pure. Fiji water had detectable arsenic, which was not found in the city’s water supply. They also discovered large amounts of microplastics which the Cleveland tap water did not contain.
adsarelies@reddit
I thought it was all just tap water. Like how can you proof that water molecule was from Fiji and never having been anywhere else on the planet?
Uma_mii@reddit
Isotope analysis
originaljbw@reddit
You mean like all bottled water?
beastpilot@reddit
It is from Fiji, but that doesn't mean it's not a marketing gimmick.
CreepyOldGuy63@reddit
Giovanni Gentile would be proud.
GMAN7007@reddit
The problem would be even if the importing of water was illegal. Those cargo ships are still going to be traveling regardless. I'm 100% for it I just don't think it would help unfortunately.
flopsyplum@reddit (OP)
Yeah, but the cargo shops would make fewer trips per year.
Mayor__Defacto@reddit
No, they wouldn’t, because Fiji still needs to import stuff. The Water is going on otherwise dead legs.
GMAN7007@reddit
They wouldn't something else would take the place of the water. There's so much stuff shipped per year. It would be like if someone stopped riding a bus suddenly and hoping the fuel consumption of the bus would do down. It technically would but only if they made that seat unsusble. Someone will always fill the vacant seat until we have better regulations.
Liraeyn@reddit
This is a sane idea
sokonek04@reddit
The solution is to go after the demand.
Because as long as people are willing to buy the water, someone will ship it.
Boris41029@reddit
I agree with the sentiment, but to get this to happen now, you need to nix the climate change talk and say it's to support American water companies. And to avoid having our water supplied by foreign interests.
less_than_nick@reddit
Turns out imported bottled water has been WOKE all along
adsarelies@reddit
Enact tariff on foreign water
Embarrassed_Flan_869@reddit
MWGA? Make water great again?
The_Troyminator@reddit
Make Water Gross Again
spbgundamx2@reddit
Or we can try and source similar water locally and make it cheaper so people don't buy. It only happens because there is a market for it. You also have to understand that if the water in NA comes from a rural mountain place, the emissions of transport vehicles is technically less efficient than a cargo ship.
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Exile4444@reddit
That would be quite communistic of you