What do you think about the younger generation living in the diaspora who don't understand their language?
Posted by TheNight0215@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 74 comments
I ask this specifically for Ex-Yugoslavian Countries but the other one can also answer their opinion of course.
What do you think about the younger generation (15-30l living outside Balkans but parents are from Balkan, and they understand a single word of their mother language?
The only thing they know is "hello" "what's up" and insults of course.
I met many people, especially in my home town but only a few know how to communicate in Serbo-Croatian. Most of them dont even know how do describe the weather.
I think its sad. You should at least know basics. I know maybe your parents never learned you the language ok.
But still do you even feel connected to your home country?
Whats your opinon about this?
mountain-girl-2021@reddit
it's sad, because i feel as though they cannot truly connect to their culture. how can you say you're serbian/bosnian etc if you go there and can't even order food in a restaurant for example... for me my mum always made sure i could speak my own language first before english (im born and raised in london) because being able to easily connect to my own country and region helps me know who i am- where you are from is and should be a big part of who you are and can open many doors for you, in terms of community and life and collaboration or just to teach others about your culture/country and be an ambassador for your country abroad. so it's sad and i feel for them, mainly the parents fault if they didn't teach them and it's harder to learn ex-yu languages the older you get bc they're complex and have lots of slang/nuance...
Efficient_Finance935@reddit
i live in the diaspora and have migrated when i was 17. My kids born here, now teenagers speak fluent albanian, german and english and i do speak serbo-croatian at an average level. My german is not amazing, but can "hide" my foreign accent if I want to be in that position. To avoid assimilation, I used to read them books when they were little, watched albanian tv and hanged out within the albanian community. Here in diaspora, all our conflicts considered, i'd rather still hang out with a serbian rather than a boring german with a dead heart.
What helped with the language, was probably the fact that I was never really deeply attached to the local culture, except at some superficial extent. I think we Balkans people are more vivid, forthcoming - under the right conditions.
bostanite@reddit
Dead heart ššš
Emergency-Buddy-8582@reddit
I laughed so much.
phwark@reddit
āDead heartā?!
Obvious-Desk4573@reddit
As a diaspora Serb, I feel rather bad about myself after reading some of the comments here...
KWife4@reddit
Donāt feel bad, I am mixed too. People here in Serbia are actually really nice and patient Iāve noticed with the language, especially when you explain your heritage. I have actually only received snooty comments about it from Serbs in America. Everyone here doesnāt care.Ā
My husband and his friends make fun of the diaspora Serbs who post every sporting event like they won it themselves, who post every Slava and not their own, and the ones who come here once a year, take one waterfront photo for insta and want to lecture native Serbs how to live their lives lol.Ā
Obvious-Desk4573@reddit
Thanks for the encouragement, it made my day a bit better haha :)
KWife4@reddit
My pleasure :)Ā
KWife4@reddit
So Iām saying people here are kind and friendly, especially to ones willing to learn from people who live here š
Capable_Studio_6631@reddit
My family moved when I was 10 years old. I speak both languages, including English but it took me so long to learn the new language that while I was growing up it left me socially inept. As as result I don't really fit in my home country because I haven't been in touch with our culture for over 18 years and I don't fit in here. I have dual citizenship btw.
deviendrais@reddit
I struggle to even consider them Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian etc. Genetics alone don't make you part of an ethnic group and if you don't speak the language you're incredibly disconected from your roots. May be for their best actually lol
awarddeath123@reddit
This lol. Being āfrom thereā doesnāt make a person a part of the culture and thereby society. Iāve lived abroad, but I also spent the first seventeen years of my life here in Bosnia; bouncing between cities like Doboj, Tuzla, Sarajevo, East Sarajevo, etcetera. Even lived in a village. When I went abroad and traveled on my non-Bosnian passport, I felt a complete disconnect with the diaspora. They seem to be āmaking it upā with stupid phrases and exaggerated, hollow nationalism. They arenāt proud enough of Bosnia or Serbia to live there, but in the comfort of their Miami apartment they will wear tattoos with ethnic heroes or wear t-shirts with outlines of the country.
IMHO, you have to live here ā actually LIVE ā to be a part of the society. To recall your roots and absorb the culture. Showing up during the summer tourist months doesnāt count, and makes you more insufferable in some cases than American tourists. Your Serbian doesnāt have to be perfect, but at least youāre making an effort to assimilate here if you decide to move back. I could easily go abroad, yet donāt see the point because this is my home. Iād rather be in it and live modestly, than be a sell-out in exchange for ārichesā.
OctogenerianCoder@reddit
"I come from Bosnia, take me to America" literally in your case lol
HarrowingOfTheNorth@reddit
So some Indian moves to your country and they are more a South Slav than me who doesnt speak much Serbo Croatian but has found stone carvings from 13th century with our family name in our village?
deviendrais@reddit
Well, yes. If you were born and grew up in, for example, the US and only speak English you're way more American than Serbian. Likewise, if an Indian was born and grew up in Serbia and only spoke Serbian then they're way more Serbian than Indian in my eyes (Emphasis on the "in my eyes" since who the fuck am I to tell people what culture they feel connected to?).
There are other factors besides language of course. But there's a reson why governments always go for the language first when they want to eradicate a culture.
HarrowingOfTheNorth@reddit
You can have your opinion. But my DNA has been there for at least 800 years. Gardens dug by my ancestors, walls put up by my ancestors. Blood matters to me.
deviendrais@reddit
Blood can matter to you all you want but there is no "Serbian blood" (assuming your ancestors were Serbs). Even before we came to the Balkans we mixed with non-Slavic peoples in Central/Eastern Europe and we continued to mix with non-Slavic peoples once we arrived to the Balkans 1500 years ago. They didn't suddenly get "Serbian DNA" but were absorbed into our culture, language and traditions and in doing so helped to create the Serbian culture that we know today.
I think it's not only reductive to focus on "blood" but also dangerus considering what has happened in the Balkans in the 40's and 90's and continues to happen to this day in other parts of the world. Being part of a culture is what you experience and what's around you- not what's in your veins or cell nucleus.
HarrowingOfTheNorth@reddit
Croatian. I just dont see how some random Indian or Syrian who moves to Yugoslavia can be as Yugoslav as someone like me with centuries of dna there. I will get land passed on. That is legacy surely?
phwark@reddit
Do you live there? If not, your opinion doesnāt matter.
Minskdhaka@reddit
Depends. How about two generations from now? Is your fourth-generation Croatian-American grandkid going to be very Croatian? Possibly not. Whereas the grandkid of today's Indian immigrant in Croatia may be quite Croatian indeed, whatever his DNA profile might be.
HarrowingOfTheNorth@reddit
Well no he wont be because he did not create the concept that is Croatia did he? I think we have such different conceptual frameworks we will never agree so let me shake your hand and walk away
kiki885@reddit
They're not my countrymen. They're always overly patriotic about their "homeland" which they don't know shit about. They're westerners who think they're better than the other westerners when they're not.
I know a few of these and they're insufferable.
TheDJK@reddit
I mean to be fair so many Serbs will try to tell me about life in America as if I didnt spend my whole life living there and they havenāt stepped foot there. I think weāre all insufferable in our own ways lol
kiki885@reddit
Yeah of course there are people here who think they know better about the west. The west has fallen, all your money goes on bills blablabla.
But in my opinion not all insufferable behavior is equal. I think people who come here with their having spent their whole lives in the west, with western money telling me how I should live my life are worse. Oh and being soooooo fucking proud of Serbia when they're not here slaving away with the rest of us. OH and they also vote for VuÄiÄ. I know a bunch of those too.
In my opinion you lose the right to be nationalistic if you live abroad.
KWife4@reddit
My husband is Serbian born, raised grew up here , Iām American with mixed serbian heritage. We live in Serbia. His only problem as Iāve mentioned is with diaspora Serbs who were American born or havenāt lived here since they were 5 coming here once a year on vacation and telling people from here how they should behave/think/live. Or those insta reels āin Balkan weā¦ā and heās like..but you are in USā¦.
kiki885@reddit
Exactly...
KWife4@reddit
I am American with Polish and Serbian roots, and I speak both at a B level. I married a Serb from Serbia and moved to his municipality in Å umadija with him in January. People here have been very patient and friendly with me as I improve my Serbian. I noticed from my husband and other people here, they are kind with helping you learn the language better if you didnāt learn much growing up. The only thing he doesnāt have patience for is diaspora people with a straight up North American accent who lives in US or somewhere else ātelling people who are from here how they should behave.ā (Which I donāt do lol.)Ā
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Itās cringe. I havenāt met a *single* diaspora born abroad who knows the cases in our language. They have such a distorted view of their identity and most kids are from village parents who arenāt the smartest. Then they use that identity/narrative to shape actual decisions in their life that arenāt related to cultural identity - their political decisions, their decisions at work, how they raise their family etcā¦
Itās not good and personally I just discredit them. They donāt know what theyāre talking about and donāt even have a fraction of the cultural capital they think they have
ilijadwa@reddit
Iām born abroad and know my padeži! Though I do sometimes get the word endings mixed up.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Know my padeže*
ZnaŔ koga ili Ŕta? Padeže
ilijadwa@reddit
Haha yes I know the difference between ākogaā and āÅ”taā, though given my sentence was in English I never wouldāve thought to put the word āpadežiā in the accusative case
Better-Decision-4797@reddit
People like you actually are the reason we feel like shit. Being accepted absolutely nowhere messes with your identity. Forever.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Yeah this is exactly what Iām talking about. This attitude of not being accepted anywhere.
The only reason you feel like that is because you think you have more cultural capital than you really do. If you knew how much of your identity is based on lies, myths, exaggerated stories and personal circumstance (which come from like 5 people, all of which are in your family) youād be a little more cautious.
If you feel like shit because we donāt validate your perception about your identity, maybe you should examine why and see if you can learn something more about your identity, rather than saying the most entitled shit like āpeople like you donāt let me continue living my fantasy which makes me feel bad and thatās your fault. Validate my lieā
Better-Decision-4797@reddit
The reason I feel Like This is because we get treated like Shit everywhere We go
AogamiBunka@reddit
I have this experience with my some of my extended in-laws (Croatian). They have Croatian flags, pictures of Ante Pavelic and other fascists/nazis in their centres, they follow Croatian politics, and consider themselves "Croatian" but can barely speak a word of the language.
Often times, I view this as a cult of personality or cult of society. I've never been able to understand why this occurs in a younger generation.
writebyhand@reddit
It's a cringy LARP to be migrated for more than 10+ years even if you speak the language and to pretend you have some great stake in your home country. Your new country should be your home.
Kooky_Appeal_6554@reddit
That only works if the host society accepts you. In Germany, that's not so easy.
You can adapt as much as you want, but different appearance, origin, etc., will always be a disadvantage.
CompoteBeautiful1062@reddit
This is usally the problem , this also works backwards because the foreigner will then be more attached to his origin country because he will feel unaccepted
ilijadwa@reddit
Yeah Iāve touched on this before and posts like these definitely bring up a lot of mixed feelings. I grew up in Aus, so basically the furthest away diaspora you could possibly be. I donāt fit the profile of people OP described (though Iām not fluent in Croatian, I speak it a lot better than just a few words), and I also find those ultra conservative but donāt really know about their culture types really irritating, I also have some sympathy.
growing up for me was constant mixed messages all the time. I was supposed to be Australian and there were so many aspects of our culture my parents would minimise so we wouldnāt get bullied. Which is actually very reasonable, because I still got bullied for my ethnicity anyway, so I can imagine it wouldāve been worse if my parents had held onto every aspect of our culture. Even being born in Australia I still had so many people act like I was foreign, so sometimes it feels hard to identify as āAustralianā when people have constantly being implying Iām not my whole life.
However at the same time I was constantly told how important it is to keep our culture and how I should be proud of it. Again, not wrong, just confusing because I was made to feel like I also needed to minimise it to fit in. This is then complicated just by the fact of living in Australia - going to visit the Balkans is expensive for us and for most people, unless youāre wealthy, even once every two or three years is a stretch. I only went once during my entire childhood. Itās a bit irritating seeing people say you have to commit and live there to be a part of the culture - moving all the way to Europe from Australia is not that simple.
Arge_Deianira@reddit
With Dutch people never was easy, I don't know why ! š
ObsessedChutoy3@reddit
You are a shame to the intergalactic Romanian empire, Mark. Why do you suppose we are the largest minority in Italy, in Spain, a million pureblood settlers in Britain, Germany and so on? We were sent to colonise these countries, to prepare them for our arrival. The seed of our conquest, all belongs to thr Romanian Empire. Do not fail us
Big-Vegetable4550@reddit
Wait - did you mean the Romulan Empire? š /j in case it's necessary
Red-Citron-56@reddit
As long as they don't try to push their political/economic/social views of the country they know nothing about, I don't care if they speak the language or if they feel any connection.
My problem is with the entitled, conservative, very religious knowitalls.
storky0613@reddit
Iām pretty fluent and my accent is spot on, but my grammar is shit so I probably sound very stupid to locals who donāt know me. Baka and Deda talked in full small town slang so I didnāt learn the proper words for some things until I was in my 20ās.
Alma_Mater91@reddit
Theyāre cringe af. Most are conservative, they grow up to go to church on Sundays and thus many of them hold outdated views. They are raised in families that left Greece in the 60s and 70s, and as a result their view of the Greece is distorted. They visit their yaya and papou like once every three years in Greece and they think that they are more Greek than the ones that grew up in Greece.
Time_Trail@reddit
this is every diaspora ever
jaunmilijej@reddit
You perfectly described the Turkish diaspora
NetHistorical5113@reddit
Turks in Germany are also exactly like this
Salt_Fennel8876@reddit
I've always been amazed by the annual pilgrimages these Turks make to their homeland. Endless caravans of cars, driving in one direction and the other for days on end. And so on for decades! Amazing!
Wombats_poo_cubes@reddit
Sounds like theyāre making a crack at staying in touch with Greece.
Ujemegaz@reddit
My thoughts toward diaspora are not healthy.
Better-Decision-4797@reddit
Idkā¦I donāt feel like itās my fault, my parents didnāt teach me their first language. Iām learning by my own now to understand my grandparents better and to form a deeper connection with them, but I think itās a bit weird blaming children for not getting taught a language lol
PreWiBa@reddit
If you want to know how much of a true oatriot a "diaspora warrior" is, ask his or her children to speak the language
gavats@reddit
it is quite inevitable.
i try my best to teach my kid turkish but his mother is a dane. he lives in denmark. thus speaks danish. only time he speaks turkish is with me... and thats half of the time.
what do you think is gonna happen?
shaikann@reddit
Nice nickname though...
mizuakisbadjp@reddit
I am one of them. It's kind of weird. I'm more Bulgarian than 99% of Americans, but more American than 99% of Bulgarians. I still understand the language but there is not much use for me to speak it since I only visit the country every few years (because we can't afford to do it more).
fat_strelok@reddit
Just be happy in your new country, don't look back to the shithole your parents escaped with unreal nostalgia for a place you'll never experience and that doesn't exist anymore
Trying to keep the tradition is kinda cringe, and nationalism so far from the "front lines" is even more cringeĀ
Kinda like the Sopranos Italians which are not real Italians, they're Americans
_realhumanpersonguy_@reddit
That's me. Born in US during the war. Croatian mother, American father. We spoke mostly English at home because my dad doesn't speak Croatian. My mom could have maybe should have taught me more Croatian, but she was busy working her ass off and doing her best. So I don't blame her.
Still I feel connected to the culture. Lots of cousins there and friends from spending lots of time there. I have been studying the language for a few years to learn and participate in the culture more, and am actually planning to move there.
Everyone has their opinions but for me it's important to connect with the culture because firstly I love it and secondly I care about my roots conceptually. Anyway my hope is people would appreciate that rather than being cynical, but ultimately š¤·
marrecar@reddit
I think both the feeling of connection to your heritage and not learning the language comes both from the parents - if they don't insist, then the kids are never bound to bother or feel anything about it. Maybe a few cases here and there, where they start expressing interest at some points, but I don't blame them - I "blame" the parents.
It's sometimes hard to decide on how you are raising your kids. I know parents who have started teaching their kids both languages (German and native) at very young age and it works really good. Some introduce certain rules, like in public only German, at home only native language. I know a family who has taught their kid German and Serbian, then they moved to UAE and the kids started learning English and Arabic, and he has no issues with mixing the words from different languages in one sentence or just jumping from one to another language. And he's like not even 6 years old.
Some parents are scared that multiple languages is gonna be to much for their child. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they could not be more wrong, since kids at young age are extremely fast learners.
TurkOmbre@reddit
that they should be denied citizenship (except when they return to live in the country)
PlamenIB@reddit
Personally I donāt think of them at all. They are young and they should focus on that and not on some sense of nationalism just because their parents are from somewhere else. Their life, friends and family is there so basically this is it.
thehauntedmind@reddit
It's completely normal. Why would they care about what has been in a far away land that has nothing to do with their day-to-day life? You can't expect them to be nostalgic like their parents, Yugoslavia talk is old peoples' rumination to them.
Pretend-Marzipan7496@reddit
I see this happen with a lot of Albanians in Greece. Weirdly enough from personal experience Albanians in USA are definitely more knowledgeable about their language
Particular-Highway89@reddit
I dont think its sad. Its irrelevant if it happens with the 1st 2nd or 3rd genration. It will happen eventually
Historical-Wear-9948@reddit
I am a Bosnian Serb born in the US post war. Serbian is my first language, everyone said my accent was very Albanian and I sounded like a FOB. I would say I speak pretty decent Serbian still, I understand a lot but my grammer could be a lot better.Ā
I have cousins who are half American and they know nothing. They don't know how to say anything other than 'Zdravo', 'Kako Si'. They have Serbian tattoos and wear Serbian chains. They are American in my eyes.
But I feel pretty American when I am around people who moved from Serbia or when I go to Bosnia or Serbia. Just the way it is since I grew up here.Ā
I would say my Serbian is probably intermediate and could easily become near native if I just took the time to learn. I can be a little slow with the reading.Ā
I think my Serbian could be better now if I hung out with more Serbs but a lot of the people in my area now are different than the refugee community I grew up with; they are very stereotypical Serbs. The type where the further from Serbia they are the more nationalist they become.Ā
I think it is a lot harder when you do not have people to use the language with. Probably why some people speak almost nothing. I feel sad for my cousins because they dont have fucking idea what our grandparents are saying to them. Had no idea what the kids we played with in the village were talking about. They missed out and are continuing to miss out.Ā
OkoMushrooom@reddit
I think theyāre the luckiest people on the planet
Neat_Selection3644@reddit
Why would they know a largely irrelevant language if they donāt have any intention to come back?
LiderNaMnenie@reddit
It's absolutely sad it happens and it's completely parents fault.Ā Maybe they are ashamed of their origin and language or underestimate the intellectual capacity of their children to speak many languages.
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
'A people who dont know their history search themselves on others' we say. Ä°ts sad also like c mon man its your home country,u dont need to accept it fully but atleast know it man.
Miserable-Ground-379@reddit
Mother language keeps nation alive
Young_Owl99@reddit
Donāt be sad the opposite is not good either. Our diaspora especially the ones in Germany and Austria isolated themselves from locals and only cause bad reputation for Turkey. Some canāt even speak German properly. Respect the language of the home country!
TurdEye69@reddit
Itās sad losing my people
Kooky_Appeal_6554@reddit
Lost Generations, assimilated...