If you were shopping with a lowest cost of ownership in mind, what would you get?
Posted by jules083@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 127 comments
Just for sake of argument. Easy to repair for a shadetree mechanic, so nothing modern. Ignore fuel costs. Something you're going to keep for a decade or two. something that can be bought cheap and repaired with cheap parts that are plentiful in every parts store and junkyard around the country.
Also nothing foreign. Ford Chevy Dodge. Minimal special tools needed. Manual transmission dramatically preferred. Long lasting motor with dozens of potential replacements sitting in junkyards all over. Easy to work on motor, nothing fancy. No variable valve timing or anything silly like that.
If I'm buying I'm on the fence between an early 2000's 4 cylinder Ranger, a 90's 2wd F150 with a 300 I6, and a GMT 400 or 800 Chevy with a 4.3 and a 5 speed manual. Maybe an honorable mention to a Chevy S10. Maybe a little newer F150 with a 4.2 V6 and a manual trans.
Might be due for a new daily driver soon and starting to keep my eyes open for a deal. Very against an automatic, I hate them.
Hash-82@reddit
I really can't contribute much to this. Your criteria rule that out...
I will say this bout the 4 cylinder Ranger:
Count the spark plugs.
If it is a 4 cylinder with 8 spark plugs, every part for that engine will carry a premium price tag.
There is nothing wrong with the engine, it's solid. Just parts are going to be stupid compared to the regular 2.3.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Not quite.
The 8 plug head was the 2.3 Lima motor, I know all about that thing. Standard from the 80's until like 2001 or so. Replaced by the 2.3 Duratec. The Lima motor parts are no worse, I ran one of those over 300k miles before the truck rusted away around the motor. Only think motor wise that ever broke was a timing belt, cost like $80 for a new one
Hash-82@reddit
Except the last time I put plugs in one (close to 10 years now), the plugs were $8/each. And, that was times EIGHT.
Regular 2.3 was $3/plug Motorcraft brand. $12 vs $65 for plugs.
Idle speed control valve was ridiculous.
Filters were stupid.
I didn't say it was a bad engine. I put well over 200K on mine.
But its parts were stupid for a 2.3L 4 cyl.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, you're not wrong about that stuff. Just the cost of doing business I suppose.
Either way I'm likely leaning towards a fullsize, or at least the newer Duratec motor if I do go ranger. I have a 2003 Ranger Duratec now, if it wasn't getting pretty rusty and shifting funny we wouldn't be having this conversation. The 2-3 shift is wicked, it violently slams into gear. Lol
Tempted to just manual swap it. Shouldn't be that hard if I can find the doner truck.
oneaccountaday@reddit
Of the options you listed it’s probably the ranger. It has the highest probability of having a manual at least around here.
It would be real easy to get gmt800 as a v8 w/automatic parts are everywhere, same deal with a crown Vic or a 3800 Buick LeSabre. A sunfire or cavalier.
Honestly though man, if you’re dead set on driving a slow mobile with a manual transmission get a jeep wrangler or CJ, the mileage sucks, but they’re fun to drive, and easy to work on, very simple.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I just hate the way a CJ or YJ handles on the highway. Any of those old half tons will cruise at 70 pretty smooth.
GMT800 would be sweet. I'm still stuck on finding one with a stick shift though. I know the original transmission will hold up a long time if you maintain it. But I swear everyone I know who has installed a rebuilt or junkyard transmission in those Chevys had endless transmission problems afterwards. I don't know why, but it seems like once the original one goes out the replacement never lasts the same. Maybe all my friends have all made the same mistakes, I'm not sure.
I'm shooting for something in the 300k to 400k mileage before thinking of replacing whatever I buy. Maybe more. I'm 42 and only have about 600k more miles to drive to get to retirement. Lmao
oneaccountaday@reddit
Sounds like we’re almost on the same page here.
I’ve had over 20 TJs and CJs, never had a YJ. They all can handle like crap or drive almost as nice as my 04 ESV Escalade. The wind and short wheelbase mess with them no doubt, but the misnomer of “all jeeps handle like crap” just isn’t true.
My old TJ handles nicer than most of the JKs and JLs simply because I took the time to dial in the suspension geometry, track bars, control arms, driveshaft angles, all the crap.
At the same time this high dollar Currie/AEV/Savvy/Bilstein custom pick order lift wasn’t cheap. It’s like 3k vs $350 for a 3” lift. The tummy tuck, the undercover fab skid plates, the metal cloak armor and fenders, yeah man I don’t really like to think about the money wrapped up in that anemic go kart. But man that thing cruises just fine at 80. I get a lot of compliments on how nice the ride is because of the cheap lifted jeep comparison.
If you want an 800 get a 3/4 or 1 ton manual. Those half ton manuals, not great. They’re just weak for the vehicle.
If you do go that route, the swap route or whatever, good fluid is your friend and cheap rebuild kits are not.
Seeing as you’re obviously a car enthusiast you’ll rip 2-4 apart, not the gear itself, it’s the synchro, they start jumping out of gear.
Those transmissions actually are not that hard to rebuild, most people just slap them together and don’t measure a few critical specs.
Pull it apart sequentially, in order, a quality rebuild kit, and you’re in business. NVs are just a little bit different breed of cat, not saying your friends are bad mechanics, but I will say it takes a bit more TLC to rebuild one out of a truck that ended up in a salvage yard vs a clean take out.
Get the 800, then a trailer, then the jeep.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I have a 3/4 ton truck, a 99 K2500 with a 5.7 and a 4L80E, as a tow pig. Just don't want to use that as a daily. Rides like a brick and doesn't fit in parking spots. Lol
I also have a YJ, a 1988 with a 350 and a 700r4. It's almost undrivable on pavement. Someday I want to rip it all apart and redo it. I'm tempted to swap a fuel injected 4.3 in, the 350 is just too much for the chassis.
I figure a half ton is plenty for a daily with occasional light towing. I never knew that about the manual trans having syncro problems, thanks for the tip on that. I'm sure if the time comes I'll deal with it.
I meant automatics when I talked about rebuilt transmissions failing. I'd say if I did manage to wear out a manual I'd be able to figure out how to rebuild it relatively easily. My basement is basically a 30x40 heated workshop, something like this I'd pull the trans in the garage then move it to the basement for rebuild.
__slamallama__@reddit
Lowest cost of ownership and eliminating foreign cars to focus on the worst decade of American automotive manufacturing is certainly a choice.
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
"Lowest cost of ownership and eliminating foreign cars to focus on the worst decade of American automotive manufacturing is certainly a choice."
So is ignoring fuel cost.
Between the two, it renders the question pointless. "What's the best ice cream flavor? no actual ice creams or flavors though, only choices are Sawdust, Cancer, and Despair."
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, exactly. Lol
Foreign design is what I'm looking at avoiding.
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
All the US-built stuff is designed here. Who do you think is buying Camrys? the Japanese? Toyota has a design studio in Newport Beach and they just opened one in Ann Arbor a couple years ago.
But if you want to buy a Ram truck, I wouldn't blame you a bit, I share your enthusiasm for Italian cars.
Ghost2116@reddit
Ram trucks being designed in italy makes so much sense
YeahIGotNuthin@reddit
With Stellantis, Italy is where the money goes when you buy a ram. Except of course the factory workers who build it get some of the money, so i guess some of it goes to Mexico where the plant is. (For the 2500 and larger ones.)
elbyl@reddit
"But if you want to buy a Ram truck, I wouldn't blame you a bit, I share your enthusiasm for Italian cars." OMG, that's hilarious! MURICA! -by Stellantis
Kseries2497@reddit
I once owned a 3G Camry wagon, the first generation where North America got a separate version of the Camry. You can imagine my shock when I saw the very same car in Japan - called the Scepter there, and by that time a very old car by Japanese standards.
I didn't appreciate it back then, but now I know that it was a pretty rare thing to spot.
Hersbird@reddit
Bad designs for repairs are common with all makes, but you probably mean "German engineering". There are GMs that require engine removal for water pumps and timing chains too, but Germans are famous for burying common failure points.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, that too. I'm not buying those ones either. Same with the Ford trucks with the cam Phasers, or the GM with the AFM. I know it's fixable, just don't want to deal with it.
What was the one you had to pull the intake off for the starter, I think it was a Cadillac V8? Trying to avoid that kind of stupidity. Lol
Different_Split_9982@reddit
That's about all newer even American stuff.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah. I'm not buying newer. Excluding my 17 Miata and my wife's 17 Focus the newest I've ever owned was a 2011. Probably going a little older with the next one, roughly 96-07 era. And it'll almost certainly say Ford or Chevrolet on the grill.
Different_Split_9982@reddit
lol I'll say this I have a 1992 civic hatch. I've had it since 2010. It had 500k on it then. It still gets 50 mpg never left me stranded all its needed ever was some breaks tires and gas.
rilesmcjiles@reddit
Despair sounds good
weirdoldhobo1978@reddit
I think sawdust, my doctor says I need more fiber.
noladutch@reddit
Really?
How many manual accords have you seen lately. How many manual Camry listings do you see? Would love a xb scion with a stick been looking for one. A nice one is in the 7 to 10k range. A low milage Honda element is staggering in price also and a manual is stupid rare.
Just how many times do idiots have to pay a Toyota Honda tax on used and new stuff to just see it is not worth it.
Neighbor sold his 17 year old taco with a north of 300k miles for more than I bought a low milage 96 f150 manual transmission truck. Actually close to twice as much.
A beat yota needing paint is not worth twice as much as a 96 f150 in better shape with low miles. It for fuck sure is not worth twice as much.
Oh by the way the v6 Tacoma that year gets the same exact mpg on the interstate as my f150.
But yeah you be you.
jules083@reddit (OP)
There it is.
I can buy a nice 96 F150 for like $3k or $4k. And probably drive it for a decade. And when it breaks it'll cost $25 and a case of beer to fix
jules083@reddit (OP)
Lol. Yeah.
I would say the 90's were solid for American cars though. Right between when they figured out how to make fuel injection work right and before they started doing complicated silliness like variable valve timing.
noladutch@reddit
They are all solid until you get into too many computer controlled things.
As long as you are out of the computer controlled transmission era you will be fine with about anything.
The problem you run into is smaller trucks don't get that great mpg considering what you are giving up.
Another to look out for is a second gen Dakota sport. They were usually a 2.5 with a manual. Not bad trucks once you figure out the dodge tricks from that era.
I had one bought it needing a clutch for 800 bucks 10 years ago and she is still going strong. My brother has it as his dump hauling home depot trip rig.
Cranks_No_Start@reddit
The 90s? Are you kidding me? Those were some of the best trucks to roll out ever.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Eliminating foreign cars is somewhat because I live in the rust belt and those cars rot way quicker than a body on frame pickup truck would.
Also between me and my local shadetree mechanic there's nothing that can't be fixed on an old truck, but anything with Toyota or Honda written on it turns into a head scratcher.
Quick_Delay_8459@reddit
If anything with Toyota or Honda on it turns into a head scratcher for your mechanic, you need a new mechanic. Any Toyota from the age range of your suggestions will far outlast any of your options and do it for cheaper with maintenance being easier.
That same age range and the type of vehicle you’re looking at, a Lexus gx470 would 100% be your best bet. Rather cheap, very easy to work on, most parts are cheap (don’t get model with rear air bags, or if you do, coil convert them for pretty cheap), and it has a million mile engine. These things get used and abused for hundreds of thousands of miles without ever skipping a beat. Just gotta find one that actually has maintenance records.
jules083@reddit (OP)
My mechanic is an old guy that works cheap as a hobby. He does great work, just not on anything newer or foreign.
Honestly 90% of the work I do myself. I'm not in over my head until after the motor is out.
Same with my transmission guy. Bring him a 4l60, a parts set, and $300 and he'll give you a rebuilt transmission back. Show up with anything newer or foreign and he won't touch it. Retired guy that does this as a side hobby. He changed a clutch for me once on a powerstroke 4x4 Ford for $400 plus parts.
Quick_Delay_8459@reddit
“Foreign” shouldn’t make a difference. Sure, being able to fix a 90’s f150 is not the same as a 2025 bmw M3. But any old Toyota or Honda from the 90’s-2000’s is genuinely the easiest it gets for maintenance. No joke. Rarely breaks, and when it does, the parts are cheap and plentiful and you can fix nearly everything after watching a YouTube video.
I’m telling you if you want lowest cost of ownership in that age range, you are mistaken by discounting Toyota and Honda. (Including Lexus and Acura, since they’re the same, just a few additional creature comforts).
jules083@reddit (OP)
You're probably right. My local guy would be out, he won't touch them, so there's a few things I'd be on my own for.
I haven't fully ruled them out.
Kseries2497@reddit
What, specifically, is non-rebuildable on a '90s Honda or Toyota?
Because this thread is starting to read like your shadetree mechanic buddy hates Japanese cars for basically no reason, and has invented reasons to hate them like "you can't rebuild them." And then says they're a "head scratcher" to work on. No they aren't. Literal children have been repairing and modifying '90s Japanese cars for thirty years.
If you need (or just want) a domestic pickup that's fine, but if that's the case it doesn't sound like lowest running costs are a priority for you.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I mean, I hate them too for basically no reason. Lol
I can rebuild a Chevy or Ford small block in my garage. I can't do that with a Honda. Nor do I want a Honda.
Likewise when a unibody car gets rusty it's time for the scrapyard. I live in ohio and I can fix something with a frame, within reason.
Kseries2497@reddit
"I can't do that with a Honda."
No, you don't feel like doing that with a Honda. There's no difference in rebuilding a Japanese four banger and an American V8, except maybe that the four-banger, being lighter, is a little easier to handle around the shop.
I built my old Miata's engine for boost at the same time my buddy next door was rebuilding a junkyard 350 to put in his turd-gen Camaro. It's all the same stuff. Socket set, torque wrench, have a fresh set of gaskets and bearings on hand and make sure you follow the directions.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Ok. Doesn't change the fact that I don't want one though
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
Dude, I live in Michigan, and I can assure you that new domestic models rust significantly faster than any foreign cars. I've seen numerous trucks less than 5 years old with rotting beds and cabs. Chevy is especially bad.
The only newer foreign cars I see with rust are Nissan Altimas.
jules083@reddit (OP)
New. I'm looking at junk that's 20 years old.
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
No brainer. GMT-400.
Package_Objective@reddit
The 1990s is certainly better than the USA 2010s and the 2020s but ok.
ONE1-ZERO@reddit
Yeah any tech will tell you that 90’s list is the best decade and far from the worst. And then the LS based chevys next. Probably the most reliable of all time when ford did what? Oh yeah the 3v triton. Still nothing as good as a camery, Corolla, accord or civic but I also had to hunt down a LeSaber 3800 for someone who didn’t like “Asian design”.
Hersbird@reddit
"Ignore feul costs" is silly, very short sighted. That could easily be by far the biggest cost. Also insurance could be the biggest cost, even just liability. Something like a Mustang compared to a Corolla is huge. My work truck is 11 years old and has been mechanically pretty flawless. Still has cost $185,000 in fuel because it gets 7 mpg. Had work sprang $10,000 more for something with just 30% better feul economy they could have spent $60,000 less in gas. So everything needs to be considered to find the lowest cost to operate, need to know miles per year, city or highway, full coverage or liability, or possibly self insured. The mileage also changes preventive maintenance costs. You could only drive 500 miles a year so economy may not be a concern, but then you still need an oil change.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I know.
I've been in 4 cylinder econoboxes for a while and I'm done. Once my Fiesta finally quits I don't want another one.
Insurance won't be terribly worse.
Ideally I'd like to have a regular cab shortbed half ton. Should get like 18mpg or so. Good enough. I drive a lot of miles but I'm not worried about fuel costs, just want something I can run for the next 15 years or so that's easy to work on.
I think my first choice would be a 96 or 97 F150 2wd regular cab step side with a 300 and a 5 speed manual.
Hersbird@reddit
I think GM LS motors are easier to work on. They have way more power and even get better fuel economy than anything in a truck before. 99-06 GMT800 so silverados, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Esclade, Avalanche and others.
There are some electrical issues but most are well researched and documented how to repair easy. All parts are available used or new in the aftermarket and are cheap.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the comment.
How's the 4.8? I see them pop up from time to time, I figured they're as good as a 5.3 but I don't know a thing about them. Cheaper purchase price and plenty of power for me.
Hersbird@reddit
4.8, 5.3, 6.0 all good those years. The 6.2 came after and was good early, but bad later. 2015 is I think when they got direct injection and more problems. Also 2007 up got cylinder deactivation which has more problems as well. So 1999-2006 is the sweet time IMO.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Thanks, kind of what I was thinking.
I'm definitely avoiding the cylinder deactivation. No 6.0, don't need a 3/4 ton.
Adding the 99-06 GM to my shopping list I think. Been playing on marketplace, they're about the same price as the 90's models apparently. Main thing I'm still on the fence with now is the classic Ford vs Chevy argument. I've had some of both, kind of partial to the Ford but I know they're both good trucks. If I get a Ford it'll almost certainly be a 90's model.
I need to figure out work too before I commit and drain my savings. Finishing up a steel mill job now, layoffs are coming sometime between this Friday and late July. Need to see what job I go to next and what the overtime is looking like. There's a very well paying project I can go to building a data center that's 160 mile daily round trip. Alternatively there's local work that has a lot less overtime pay and more jumping around, just little short jobs here and there.
I'm adding about $400 weekly to my 'new-used truck fund' and could go about $7k or so right now without hurting too much, want to hold off until I get laid off and decide for sure where I'm going.
Either way the truck makes sense and fuel mileage doesn't matter much. If it's local work I'm not too worried about the fuel mileage, if I go on that data center job I'll carpool, plus finish driving my little Ford Fiesta into the ground. Damn car has a death rattle in the top end of the motor that started about 30k miles ago, it just won't die. Lol
DoubleWrongdoer1540@reddit
Early 2000s F150 with the 4.2 V6 are super reliable. Some had an issue with the isolated bolts on the intake that would cause a check engine light. It was a fairly easy diy fix and never happened again. Go with 2wd to keep things even simpler.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I've heard that 4.2 was good. Admittedly don't know much about them
DoubleWrongdoer1540@reddit
One I had was relatively trouble free for over 200k.
Diligent-Body-5062@reddit
Fords are all ecoboost, besides that lots of recalls. Ecoboost don't last, gm are pretty much all turbocharged and very unreliable, Dodge is stellantis, the bottom of the barrel. If you want reliable you need Japanese. Subaru Crosstrek for example.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Ecoboost wasn't even invented yet when the vehicles I'm looking at were made.
brabson1@reddit
5 year old Chevy bolt for 9k.
noladutch@reddit
Go after a 300 six manual f150.
They are truly indestructible. The front end is not plush but robust as hell. You have to be a special kind of stupid to kill a 300.
Nice ones with low miles are around 6 to 7k in my area. The one I drive daily has 286k miles and the nice one has 112k. A beater is about 3 to 4k
As long as you get the grandpa owned ones you will be fine.
Now about rangers a v6 one will get just about the same mpg as the 300. 21 hwy the 4 is a better option but not that much better considering you are giving up that much more in truck..
jules083@reddit (OP)
That's what I'm heavily leaning towards.
I've had a few Rangers and you're exactly right. The 4-cylinder runs good but can't get out of its own way, and if you're getting a 4.0 Ranger you might as well be putting fuel in a F150
4158264146@reddit
Something with the Ford 4.6
onedelta89@reddit
An older 2500 chassis suburban with the 4l80 auto trans is rock solid reliable if gas mileage is really not an issue. I prefer manuals but that option is shrinking fast. A Toyota Tacoma with TRD package givesnyou lockers or an SR5 w a manual and umyou can add yournown lockers.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I'd love to go a little smaller. 92-94 Blazer with a small block and a 5 speed manual. I know they made them but good luck finding one in decent shape for under $15k or so
Colonel460@reddit
“ When the last GM vehicle dies a Ford 300 six cylinder will tow it to the junk yard” . An engine that just refuses to die .
jules083@reddit (OP)
Absolutely a 300 6 is my first choice at this point in time.
howrunowgoodnyou@reddit
2nd gen Prius.
revocer@reddit
Any American Made Honda with 4 cylinder, timing chain engine, non turbo, manual transmission. Parts are plentiful. Community is strong.
Many Ford, Chevy, Dodge is made in a foreign country.
H0SS_AGAINST@reddit
GMT
/THREAD
SkeletorsAlt@reddit
Have you been to a gas station lately?
H0SS_AGAINST@reddit
DEW YEW NO HOW TA READ?
SkeletorsAlt@reddit
Oh fuck, I glossed right over that sentence.
In that case, yeah, GMT400. You are correct. Only car I’ve ever had where they had body parts for sale at the parts store, and they weren’t even behind the counter.
TBI kinda sucks, but it’s simple and easy to work on.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, don't care about the gas mileage nearly as much as I should.
I actually have one of those already, a 99 K2500. It's a 3/4 ton longbed extended cab and I have no intention of driving such a thing every day to work and back. It's long, doesn't fit in parking spots, and rides like a dump truck. Lol. Great truck for pulling my camper or whatever though.
Same truck in a 1/2 ton shortbed would be great. I'm not against the TBI, as long as it starts every morning I'm happy enough. Given the choice I'd probably pick the 4.3 over the V8 offerings, just because I don't need to tow with it much so there's no real need for a small block. Wouldn't complain if it had one though.
H0SS_AGAINST@reddit
HOSS Act aside, a GMT gasser is going to be super easy and cheap to maintain. They're still casting drive line parts because it's so ubiquitous. Idk about the 400 but 800 odd and end parts (handles, mirrors, etc) have strong 3rd party support and are dirt cheap.
Biggest risk on the 800 is the body control modules like to go haywire and then you either live with the ghosts, slowly disabling things, or you gotta spend a fair chunk of change to get a reman one VIN matched. This doesn't happen to all, but definitely some. If you go bare bones you don't really have to worry about that, more on the SLT and other high trim models.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Bare bones it is then. Lol
I've heard about those modules a little. Hate everything about them. Lol
SkeletorsAlt@reddit
The nice thing about a RWD RCSB is it’s smaller than a modern Ranger or Colorado. Park it anywhere, no huge blind spots, you don’t need a cute little step or ladder to get into the bed. It’s just easy.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Absolutely what I'm thinking. And the damn things are just so easy to work on. I did a clutch in an F150 in an afternoon laying in my driveway by myself once. Good luck doing that in most anything front wheel drive
SkeletorsAlt@reddit
Yeah, the way most modern front drives want you to drop the whole cradle/motor/trans out the bottom is highly annoying.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I've done a few. It's aggravating.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I was there the other day, didn't see any of those trucks for sale.
Who cares about gas mileage when your truck makes happy V8 noises instead of sad I4 noises? Lol
Captkarate42@reddit
Your whole list is fairly good. I would add the following.
Crown vic, or 2v 4.6 f150 for ford stuff.
4.0 XJ Cherokee with a manual trans for Chrysler stuff.
GMT 800s were available with a 4.8 v8 and a manual trans, and the whole setup is quite good.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I'd love to find a 99-07 RCSB 2wd with a manual and a 4.8 or 5.3. either one would work.
I have a Vic now, not sure what my plans are but it's my baby. 2011 P7B that I brought up from South Carolina and has never seen salt. The only way I'd make it my daily is if I bought a nicer one to replace it, I know that sounds dumb.
I almost like the 2V 4.6, just hate how it's occasionally expensive to work on. I know they're plentiful in the junkyards at least. Just so much cheaper and easier to deal with the older stuff. I can damn near rebuild a 350 or 302 in a weekend in my garage as long as the cylinders are still decent.
Captkarate42@reddit
To add to my earlier comment, if performance is your thing, there are a lot of options to wake your crown vic up as well. You could swap the final drive ratio, get some long tube headers, get a fancy intake manifold and a tune. It would feel like a totally different car.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I thought about all that. I have a tune already, and did a J-Mod in the transmission. Helped a lot.
Fluid film would keep it alive for sure. I use it on my wife's car and my work beater which is nearly done for. Ford Fiesta with 242k miles, it's only a matter of time before it gives up.
I really want to drop a t3650 5 speed manual in it. I priced it out, about $1500 plus whatever I can find the trans for for everything. So about the same cost as rebuilding my 4r75w if and when the time comes. I manual swapped a 2002 TDI Jetta once so I roughly know what to expect.
Can't decide what I want to do. I've driven way too many miles on cheap 4 cylinder econoboxes over the past decade and I'm just about sick of that. Lol. My last 130k commuting miles have been in a Ford Fiesta, and before that a 2 door Civic. For what it's worth reliability wise that Civic was one of the worst cars I've ever owned, had endless head scratcher type problems. Sold it to a coworker for $500 just to get it out of my damn driveway. I actually think it was worse than the time in 2008-2010 when I tried to use a 1968 Rambler American as a daily. The Rambler broke a lot too, but at least I could fix it in an hour with a crescent wrench and $20 worth of parts. Lol
Captkarate42@reddit
All of that makes sense to me. There was a guy with a t56 swapped supercharged marauder that used to come to some of our local car club events and that thing was insane.
I've done the long distance cheap old four cylinder econobox commute game too and it sure does get tiring after a handful of years lol.
Worth noting that a crown vic will also get better fuel economy than basically everything else you are looking at in the list here.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it would get a little better mileage. Mine gets like 23 on the highway, good enough for me. I'm done driving econoboxes, if it came down to that again I'd uncover my Miata and start driving it. Lol
I have too much shit already. My fiesta and my Ranger are held together with hopes and dreams, figuring I'll sell 2 and buy 1. Lmao
The 3650 is for newer crown vics, t56 for I think 05 and older. Both will bolt up but the speedometer input is different.
Captkarate42@reddit
Yeah the modular ohc motors can be a bit pricey to fix on rare occasions, like doing timing chains or something, but the key parts are basically good forever. There are a lot of 500k+ mile crown vics in the world, and even some with over a million miles. The only real weak link imo is the 4r70w and it's still just fine as far as torque converter slushbox transmissions go. Also the starter is mildly annoying to change on crown vics lol. Other than that, they're just rock solid cars.
Have you considered just winterizing your crown vic a little better? Get fluid filmed, get stainless braided brake lines, get a second set of wheels and snow tires.
ThaiTum@reddit
Tesla Model 3 or Y. No gas. Almost no maintenance. Our 3 is 8.5 years old and only needed control arms that cost $400 to fix a squeak. There was one recently that went 380,000 miles on the original battery pack. It will go 300 miles on $6 of electricity charging at home.
ActionJackson75@reddit
Yeah this was my first thought. They may not be the cheapest for maintenance overall because they do eat tires but *assuming you can charge at home* it will more than make up for it in fuel savings.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
My Y started rusting at 3.5 years old and Tesla says it’s not covered by the Rust Warranty because the rust was caused by poor assembly. If OP is specifically concerned about rust.
Maybe a Blazer EV or a used Mach-e.
ThaiTum@reddit
Do you park outside and live in a place with snow? We’re in Atlanta and haven’t had any rust on our 3. Our Model S is all aluminum though so doesn’t.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
I park outside during the day, but it’s garaged ~350 nights per year.
We have snow here in Ohio, but the main problem is that the taillight scrapes the paint off part of the liftgate where they rub.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Should have added 'no battery cars' to the list.
A Mach-e is definitely not repairable at home.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
Yeah, that’s one reason why I didn’t actually reply at the top level suggesting them.
That and it’s not clear if the “not an automatic” requirement applies to the single-speed transmission in EVs. They have the responsiveness of a manual in the right gear at all times but like an automatic never need to manually shift (and are simpler than either).
If you haven’t, you should take one for a test drive some time though.
o0Spoonman0o@reddit
We're not gonna cover our warranty because we built it poorly is a new one on me.
gheiminfantry@reddit
Just for the sake of argument, the "cost of ownership" is a lie. The manufacturer claims Lifetime Transmission Fluid on CVT. But if you don't change the transmission fluid regularly, the transmission goes out. They literally lie to the customer to make their CoO look better. This is just one example.
jules083@reddit (OP)
For sure. Just like the old cars having grease fittings on all suspension components
gheiminfantry@reddit
Not the same. Sealed bearings were expensive, grease zerks are cheap and effective. Now, Sealed bearings are cheap and more forgiving of neglect. And more people live in urban environs and those cities use more salt on their roads.
jules083@reddit (OP)
I'm thinking more about ball joints and tie rod ends, but you're right too.
ohdeargodwhyme@reddit
I live in Sweden so I would get a Volvo 😁
But I have probably narrowed it down. Base model of something mass produced is usually a good option, then you just need to find that particular car in really good shape...
jules083@reddit (OP)
I love some of the older Volvos.
They're costly here though. Not many in the junkyards, so you're having to source new parts, and nobody can work on them except real mechanic shops that charge like $150 per hour.
An old Chevy I can either swap a junkyard motor for $600 in a weekend or rebuild it myself in a week for $1200. Can't do either of those things on a Volvo.
Same with a transmission. I can change a clutch for like $300 over a weekend, Volvo is going to likely be an automatic for something in the neighborhood of $4k.
brnrmbo@reddit
For something like a volvo 240 I think the most complicated job is a timing belt..and it is not that complicated - I have done one over my lunch break. The most tedius job is the heater core.
For the transmission; I think the default was auto but many were equipped with manuals. I have owned 4 240 wagons 1 sedan and have sort of become the local volvo shadetree guy. I have yet to rebuild or replace a 240 automatic. Many have 300k on them with original atf.
Volvo sold 2.5 million 240s - there are lots around and the aftermarket is plentiful. Sourcing new parts is as easy as RockAuto. or IPD if you are a volvo purist.
BudFox_LA@reddit
Like a used Prius or something. I’ve seen Uber drivers and taxi drivers with Prius’s with like 300,000 miles.
xTheGame69@reddit
10 year old 4 runner or tacoma
Prius or Corolla if you don't need or want 4wd
SimpleAd8089@reddit
Ford Chevy Dodge are foreign
jules083@reddit (OP)
Not if you live in the US they're not
RealSignificance8877@reddit
Gm400, using mine as a daily now for 10 years. One fuel pump.
usafmsc@reddit
Buy the vehicle that doesn’t require much if any maintenance. Toyota/Honda/Nissan. Bonus points if you can make a nissan leaf 2nd gen esp work for your driving needs. Quick as a rocket, load up the hatchback and get ready to tell everyone they are number 1.
DavidGno@reddit
A bus pass... But since that's not an option for everyone, I'd go with a used Toyota Camry or Honda Civic. They aren't particularly fun, glamorous or appealing, but they'll get you A to B cheaply.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
I had a ford maverick that fit your criteria back in 2023-2024. Thats my answer. Id buy that. Stupid simple, nothing really broke because there was nothing TO break, super easy to find parts for and do repairs, reliable, cheap insurance, and good gas mileage. It was the perfect car for a poor person. I ended up selling it becayse a slightly newer compact fell in my lap with more features so I tried this one for that. Ended up selling the one I traded a little over a hear later anyway. Should have kept the maverick.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Not a bad choice really, I'd love to have one, but they quit making it in 77 so it's pretty hard to find one in good condition anymore.
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
Mine was a 72 abd it was in decent condition. It was 4 different colors but no rust, got it for 600 bucks. You just gotta know where to look
jules083@reddit (OP)
Damn, I'd jump all over that.
One issue is I'm coming south from Ohio to buy anything. So anything on marketplace that's a screaming good deal like that I'd miss. Anything here is rotted out.
I've mostly been looking in the southern Tennessee area. Hoping to head down with an empty car trailer later this summer and coming home with something.
I think given my choices I'd come home with a regular cab step side 1996-1997 F150 with a 300 I6, 2wd, 5 speed manual trans. Anything under about 250k miles would work as long as it's not blowing smoke rings. Good luck finding a clean one at a decent price though. Lol
Blu_yello_husky@reddit
You never know. I got mine in Minnesota
JEMColorado@reddit
Toyota Camry
JustGiveMeAnameDude9@reddit
Ford Crown Vic would be the winner for reliability and parts availability. Junk yards are still full of parts for these. I would rate the Grand Marquis the same but, they are more likely to have the air ride suspension.
jules083@reddit (OP)
That air ride is a really simple fix if you're ever in this situation. I had a 93 Town Car with a bad air ride. Crown Victoria coil springs are like $200 for the pair and bolt right in with no modifications needed.
Objective_Place9599@reddit
1999-2005 Chevy/GMC 1500 truck. Simple, plentiful, reliable, easy to repair.
Dieselfumes_tech@reddit
Duratech ranger five speed. I have one. Parts are stupid cheap
zack452@reddit
2008 Chevy Impala with a V6. Motor's can't be killed and parts are a dime a dozen at junkyards and new parts are cheap
jules083@reddit (OP)
Yeah, they're not bad but from what I've seen start to really fall apart at about 200k or so miles
Swamp_Hawk_420@reddit
The 300 inline 6 was a great engine, but nothing 30+ years old is going to have a low cost of ownership.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Eh, maybe.
If the electronics hold up the rest is just parts. $1000 and a weekend of time upon purchase would replace just about every wear item. After that it's just maintenance.
Caveat is 'if the electronics hold up'.
ThatOneSnakeGuy@reddit
Probably an s10 for me, my 93 Silverado was a tank but also my trans was basically a bag of gravel with asome linkage in there
That said I barely had to work on anything and if I did it was easy to get to and parts weren't bad.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Bag of gravel manual trans is fine.
I've priced both, a 1500 isn't much more than an S10
No_Educator_6376@reddit
Crown Vic four door very solid car I’ve seen them running around lasting for 250 thousand miles and parts are available and not expensive
Captkarate42@reddit
The fleet crown vics used by cab companies all through the 90s and 00s regularly saw 500k+ miles.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Funny you say that, I already have one.
It's my baby. 2011, brought it up from South Carolina. P71 car, immaculate condition. Been debating either buying a nicer one and making mine my daily or buying a cheaper one and using it for a daily. Don't want to make mine my daily unless there's another one in the barn.
KeekuBrigabroo@reddit
Ranger for sure. Escapes were also extremely hardy and easy to work on, just prone to rust.
jules083@reddit (OP)
Prone to rust sucks. Wish I could get an escape in a manual trans, dont think that was ever offered.
I've had a few rangers. Have one just about rusted away sitting in my driveway now, and I'm not against another one
Zealousideal_Vast799@reddit
Your parameters are good. No automatics. No awd or 4wd. Half way there
Package_Objective@reddit
The 1300 dollar acura I had for like 3 years is up there. My 2500 dollar honda I bought in January of last year is doing good. My 2001 XJ I bought for like 3k 6 years ago is treating me good too.