No. of required Windows Server license & CAL

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

Remember that if you're on M365 E3/E5 it includes your user cals for server.

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

But that is the case only for hybrid AD? If you have a seperate AD not connected to entra i doubt that applies.

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

Yes it 100% applies to hybrid or even if you don't sync your local AD at all.

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

Interesting, the E plans are not so horrible after all

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Personally I think E3 is kind of a rip off. You have to add an EMS plan to get much in the way of security automation going, E5 is a much better deal if you're over the Bus Prem limit. If you're regulated the lack of proper audit tools is enough to justify the bump.

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

I see E3 like the dealer that gives you the first hit for free. You are missing tons of stuff you actually want but once you are in, they can upsell you easily to E5. "Oh you wanna see what happend in Purview? Better Upgrade"

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Including CAL for Windows Server ?

As I know M365 E3 including Windows Virtual Desktop license.

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

Yes, it covers just about everything except for RDS CAL's or SQL. You do not need to purchase cals for domain auth, file/app server access, or exchange. It's not included in Business Premium, only E3 or higher.

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Only IT staffs use RDP for server administration work.

This purpose need the RDS CAL ?

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

No, you only need RDS CAL's if you're having users log into interactive sessions on it, including using it as an RDS app server. Your use case does not require any.

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Just like remote application is provisioned on XenApp by Citrix / MS RDS, MSSQL. CAL is required.

But if just SMB, remote desktop, then CAL is not required.

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

Basically yeah.

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Hangikjot@reddit

I've had to show that to MS reps and VARs... People keep paying double and triple for CALs.

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Absolute_Bob@reddit

I think some are just wilfully ignorant, through MS doesn't exactly lead with that information on any product page.

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Under same environment, combined Windows Server 2016, 2019 and 2022.

If just upgrade for server 2016 only, rest of server retain 2019 and 2022.

Since 2019 not reach EOS and we may keep using until next upgrade (Windows 2028).

Then sufficient to purchase STANDARD license for 2016 server to save cost ?

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

From what our MSP told us for a new Hypervisor Rollout, you have to license every user that can theoretically connect to a Windows. So if your VM has 70 users that can connect to a fileshare, you need 70 CAL's for that VM.

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Let me correct my question. Even connect to file share via SMB, user CAL is still required ?

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

Yes, any user that can connect to a system has to have a CAL. Thats where they get you. Nothing stops you adding users and allowing them access, but once the audit hits and you dont have the CAL's you will have a very expensive bill coming your way.

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

Is it a trust-based CAL ?

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ReputationNo8889@reddit

I dont know what you mean by trust based CAL. If you get audited Microsoft will count the number of users and ask you to show the CAL's for it. If you cant, you have to pay up.

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DerpyNirvash@reddit

They mean there is no verification in software, it is 'trust based' because you need to have them, but unless you get audited there is no hard requirement.

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ashimbo@reddit

Yeah, it's not like RDS where you actually install the CALs.

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DeadOnToilet@reddit

Generally, you'd need 16, 16-core Datacenter licenses, and one CAL for every user that touches the servers, but talk to a professional first. Some levels of various M365 licenses give you use rights that should be reviewed.

Pick a VAR and talk to them about it.

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Mehere_64@reddit

There are so many calculators online for this these days. How much real effort did you put into figuring out? As well if you have a rep, you can have them spit out the numbers. Sure you should verify yourself but it is really not that hard to do.

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fuzzylogic_y2k@reddit

You will likely need Software Assurance too. Review the entitlements.

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archiekane@reddit

SMB that is international: don't buy any CALs because MS cannot deal with it for some reason.

This is a bit of sarcasm, of course you buy the licences required, but if an MS auditing company contacts you, and you state you are international, for some reason they never audit.

Anyone got any idea on that one?

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

For compliance issue, CAL is required even SMB. But just MS cannot deal with ?

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vivkkrishnan2005@reddit

This is correct

256 cores ie 128 2-core DC packs will work to license all Windows Server VM on those hosts.

If the number of VM on each host is 12 or less than then standard will work cheaper, 14 is supposed to be break even.

User CAL - take 70 plus additional since when doing bulk purchase you can get much cheaper price unless you have no further requirement

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trueppp@reddit

Except if VM's move to another host for any reason you get screwed.

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Hangikjot@reddit

https://support.hpe.com/docs/display/public/hpe-ms-licensing-cal/index.html

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Ohmystory@reddit

You needed to setup a RDS lic server and point each of the vm to this lic server … and lic 75 user ( 5 extra ) … then when user start a RDS session, a user cal is assigned from the lic server pool …

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

"RDS license server" is using for RDP from client machine to Windows server ?

And all Windows server need to purchase or just RDP required server ?

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Ohmystory@reddit

Yes RDP if needed …

If you have 70 users you needed 70 CAL for data center edition per core lic on servers in your network …

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datec@reddit

You only license CALs once, not per core license. You could have 1000 VMs/Hosts with 100 Users and you'd only need 100 UserCALs. You would still have to license the hosts for either standard or datacenter, but the CALs are only licensed once in the environment.

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Zealousideal_Fly8402@reddit

RDS CALs only required if you are deploying any component of Remote Desktop Services; i.e. Remote Desktop Session Host, RD Gateway, etc.

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Zealousideal_Fly8402@reddit

Nothing in the OP mentioned the deployment of any Remote Desktop Services.

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Ohmystory@reddit

Stand corrected …

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theOtherMusicJunkie@reddit

I have threatened and considered this more than once-- quit my regular IT job and create a one man LLC promising to decode Microsoft licensing, like a Rosetta Stone. It won't work, naturally, as nobody can decode all of it.... but if I get enough customers in the first few months, before they catch on that nobody knows jack about it.... I'll make a few bucks!

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b4k4ni@reddit

I suspect this is all on-premise.

You can license with OEM / system builder (that MIGHT be a Germany only thing tho), Volume License or CSP.

In most of those cases you need to license the whole server. Standard licensing gives you the right to use 2 VM with Windows server standard per server, if the host is only used for virtualization and management (like taking backups of the VMs). If you have more Windows server, you need more standard licences, until datacenter makes more sense or you need datacenter from the get go.

CSP licenses and Volume with software assurance also offer additional licensing rights, like a cold standby.

Licensing is 16 core licenses per server minimum and 8 licenses per socket minimum.

If you only have a few windows servers, it makes sense to get some 16 core CPU / socket servers just for them, depending on the load.

Also - you can license windows per VM since 2 years. You need a CSP subscription license (those are required!) and it's minimum 8 core licenses per VM. More if there are more vcores.

Depending on the number of vms, it might make more sense and is more flexible.

If you go this route, you also need CSP subscription CALs, you can't use cals from other programs. Usually you could mix OEM and volume license calls, afaik, but not with those csp subs.

For the cals - you need device or user cals. Mixing them is possible, but makes the management a bit more complex.

In a nutshell - if every users has his own PC, get user licenses. If there are shared Workstations, take a look at the number of possible users. In my old company it made more sense to buy 5 additional user licenses for the guys in logistics, then going with devices licenses.

If you use devices licenses, you not only need to license the device that is being used, but also every windows device that will provide a service to that PC with the device license. Like the DC, DNS, DHCP VMs need a device license too (when all windows). And the ERP system and whatever. Every system with windows that will be accessed directly or indirectly by the PC with the device license.

That makes it so much more complex sometimes.

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GreatThiefPhantom@reddit

How many devices? Maybe it would be cheaper getting Device CALs

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rimekJE@reddit

If there is anything that I hate more is the CAL licencing part every year.

We're a part of a Volkswagen Group and everything goes over them, and it is a total pain in the ass, extremely confusing

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FloiDW@reddit

The solution is always: more than you thought. And additionally the wise words it is as well always: more expensive than you thought.

(And on a side note with only 5 Win VMs, maybe checking alternatives to Windows might be handy, not always suitable I know, but might cut cost drastically)

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mailliwal@reddit (OP)

It's 5 VMware vSphere host, not 5 VM servers.

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FloiDW@reddit

There was some other wording in the original thread? Or I was just dumb. :)

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Zealousideal_Yard651@reddit

And on a side note with only 5 Win VMs

HOSTS, not VM's

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