Germany Overtakes UЅ in Ammunition Production Capacity
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 56 comments
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 56 comments
luvsads@reddit
Provides no actual evidence, and seems to only be talking about specific calibers/types of ammunition. Definitely does not take into account all of the small caliber production in the US.
PerforatedPie@reddit
Gotta love the contradiction with this a few lines further down:
So the source is Rheinmetall, but also no one has spoken to Reinmetall lol quality journalism from Newsweek.
kapuh@reddit
How do you see a contradiction there?
The guy spoke somewhere. Made a statement.
Media has further questions.
Where is the contradiction?
Here is the German article mentioning the event: https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/deutschland/aussenpolitik/id_101239194/munition-im-milliardenbereich-deutschland-produziert-mehr-als-die-usa.html
PerforatedPie@reddit
I wasn't so much criticising the actual happening of events, moreso the language of the article which left it somewhat open to the interpretation that Reinmetall both did and didn't say something.
thatsthejoke.jpg
That, and the fact they've apparently rushed to publish without either getting clarification from Reinmetall, or doing their own due diligence against the statement in lieu.
Also your article link isn't really any better than the English ones, except for the fact it names the head of the arms manufacturer. Like the English article, all the hyperlinks aren't sources but just links to search terms for other news articles on their site.
kapuh@reddit
This is an event at an Journalists Club.
Journalists where present. Statement has been made.
I don't know now where you see things which would be "open for interpretation".
It names the event which should have given you context and shown you that your accusations are unjustified.
PerforatedPie@reddit
I mean I knew it wasn't the right interpretation from the start. It was a joke.
The criticism was that they didn't word it to comprehensively dispell any and all other interpretations. For a journalist, that's a valid criticism. Like saying "people evacuated" vs "the building was evacuated", one means people leaving the building, the other could also mean people taking a shit.
The German article did word it better, but it also didn't do any further work towards confirming things. That's less of a criticism though and more of a "it could be better if".
manhattanabe@reddit
The article says.
hot_sauce_in_coffee@reddit
I mean, who are the US going to use this against? Canada and Mexico? Most of their weaponry is missles for jets and boats. none of whish use 155 artillery shell.
xraygun2014@reddit
And those are just us hobbyists ^^^/s
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
Lol it's quite funny how any time American military supremacy is slightly questioned even fervent left wing yanks lose their shit. The brainwashing is strong
luvsads@reddit
Has nothing to do with supremacy. Most Americans want Europe to be able to defend itself, and that means producing its own equipment and materials. Just calling out how embellished this is so Merz and co aren't able to hide behind puffed up pieces.
I would love to see Germany overtake the US in more caliber since they are the new iron curtain front, more or less
Gabe_Noodle_At_Volvo@reddit
Most Americans want Europe to "defend itself" by buying more American made equipment and expanding their srmy while still following America's lead. Ie. They want all the benefits of the current arrangement without having to pay for it.
The general reaction of Americans when some European nations canceled orders for American weapons in favour of European made ones as part of their rearmament was not positive. If Europe decided it was going to cooperate militarily with China as part of its defense, Americans would absolutely freak out.
Amathyst7564@reddit
Yeah it's a really chiseled headline. I can tell from the photo it's talking specifically about 155mm shells which was a struggle to keep the supply up with the demand at the start of war. Russia started taking old North Korean rusty stockpiles.
skunimatrix@reddit
I mean even with overtaking production it will be what...2030's before they reach US stockpile levels?
NOTcreative-@reddit
Well thank goodness you saw the photo and are basing your comment on that rather than reading the article. This isn't an article about the potential of WWIII but more an article of allied nations depending less on US supply of arms. It specifically states (if you read the article you'd know) that allied powers are developing and stockpiling medium caliber ammunition that they'd typically depend on the US for. Somewhere between small arms and large arms since we can't be relied upon anymore.
Any-Monk-9395@reddit
The funny thing is both sides are using less artillery now that drones are becoming more prevalent on the battlefield.
PerforatedPie@reddit
And also no doubt because of supplies. For Ukraine, it's about availability, for Russia, it's about logistics - drones are better for both, and they're also far cheaper.
Hirvimon@reddit
You have it backwards, they use less artillery because they don't have enough shells which leads into trying to replace some of the firepower with drones. Although no doubt drones have made it more dangerous to fire.
Also you don't really want to expend precious shells on like group of 3 guys. I'd wager that Ukrainians atleast are saving most of their shells for counter-attacks and for countering yet to happen russian breaktroughs.
sofixa11@reddit
Not really, artillery is still crucial on the battlefield as it always has been, it's just that shells usually don't have cameras attached on them so we see much less.
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit
And it just makes sense, too. If Germany and Europe are worried about Russia pushing past Ukraine, building the capacity and stockpiles in artillery is the smart thing to do.
It makes less sense for the US as any conflict with China or even Russia will look more like Iran, with a far heavier emphasis on naval and air power and logistics. We were producing even less 155mm before the Ukraine war kicked off.
I saw a similar headline on /worldnews from one of the many Ukrainian news outlets that dominate that sub for some reason. Newsweek has been reduced to cribbing their scoops, it seems.
Mal_Dun@reddit
Production for public or private sector? In the latter one I don't believe anyone could beat the US. Then on the other hand Heckler&Koch is one of the most successful brands for hand weapons in the USA ...
Glock too but Glock is Austrian.
BalconyPetal@reddit
I think as long as those Leopards have to be keep fed, we have no worries that this changes soon. I think the small arms capacity in - a modern combat Scenario - is only useful for "inner Matters".
luvsads@reddit
Idk, with drone changes to the battlescape small arms are making a comeback
bownt1@reddit
dont care just make zee boolits
Valokoura@reddit
I think this is a start.
Some headlines will never appear like eaxact numbers about armored vehicle production and number of missiles.
I think that Ukraine is already at the peak in drone production and Russia probably comes as second. Everyone else is tinkering with smallish capacities with drones.
It is amazing and terrible to hear how fast technology is evolving at Ukraine front.
PerforatedPie@reddit
I think China is quietly catching up and may supercede others in drone manufacturing.
DrawingDramatic1641@reddit
they would rather create more led drone shows
makes way more money
PerforatedPie@reddit
I'm almost surprised there hasn't been a Black Mirror episode or something where the drones all turn and start attacking the crowd of spectators, but at the same time it's far too obvious a plotline.
However obvious extreme plotlines seem to be the running theme for reality these days.
DrawingDramatic1641@reddit
for that led usa steal the tech from china have it use them in movie so much and then claim to be a white invention then show one clip of trump visit to china and fox news will say they copy from usa bcz usa greatest nation on earth why would it copy
then usa will make it into reality
skunimatrix@reddit
I mean they have centralized authority still and the guy making widgets today can be making FPV drones tomorrow. China can pretty much out build everyone else combined in ships right now. Ten years from now...maybe a different story with their aging population.
variaati0@reddit
All exact numbers of munitions purchaises and stockpiles are military secrets. Companies won't talk customers and production numbers publicly.
Exact capacity, specially want the full war capacity is, is rather guarded secret.
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
In a truly warlike state then those numbers are very public. If Germany was trying to intimidate nations they would be announcing specifics.
NotHereToStay_-@reddit
Any dislike or hate towards the current german government is absolutely justified. Merz has not only gone back on his promises that even made him eligible for the role of chancellor but is actively doing fuckall to improve German society. Excessive military spending is always, and I will die on that hill, always a way to cop out of actually doing something useful with taxpayer money. There is nothing justifying this amount of military spending, Germany in no way is at danger of an attack. Russia has used up its military Ressources in a war that has been going on for half a decade now.
Duck_87@reddit
They went about it quite cleverly. Let Ukrainians die for as long as it takes by continuing to fund Zelensky, regardless of how corrupt he becomes. That gives Germany plenty of time to develop its weapons production without a negative impact on its economy. Pretty brilliant.
saracenraider@reddit
Not even going to bother with the nonsense of your second sentence but your third is just ridiculous. Weapons production will always boost a nations economic output, regardless of the circumstances.
polymute@reddit (OP)
That account has it backwards: Putin attacked that created the whole situation. That ... distasteful comment assumes Ukraine should have been left to be Bucha'd.
gobiSamosa@reddit
Thousands of Ukrainians wouldn't have been fed to the meatgrinder if Europeans behaved like adults and negotiated with Russia.
polymute@reddit (OP)
What negotiations? Russia attacked Ukraine. Tried to take over the capital. Remember that tank convoy kilometers long north of Kyiv? The spetznaz operation that failed to take over the military airport by Kyiv? The massacres at Bucha and so on?
Russia - even beűfre that - had made it clear that it did not accept Ukraians existing as a nation. They are Russians according to Putin. And Nazis (led by the head nazi, Jewish Zelenskyy). Russia made this an existential fight for the Ukrainian nation. Europe (???) couldn't negotiate Ukraine's nationhood away.
Duck_87@reddit
No, if you rush it then it will initionaly hurt the economy because the return of such huge investment is not instant. Instead of helping Ukraine asap they took a slow and calculated approach at the cost of many Ukrainian lives.
saracenraider@reddit
If they rushed it the economic return would’ve been better at the beginning as the increase in output required for that investment (eg all the building materials for building the factories) would’ve been realised faster. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to economics, you’re just desperately trying to fit your agenda
Duck_87@reddit
You do understand the money for all that had syphoned from somewhere else right "professor"?
saracenraider@reddit
If it’s siphoned from somewhere else, then it’s going toeconomically neutral. However, that’s unlikely what happened.
Much more likely, they borrowed to fund it. It’s not an either-or situation for governments when it comes to spending, they can also choose to borrow instead. You do realise how government bond markets work right?
I don’t know why I’m bothering continuing to argue with someone so insanely myopic.
Medical_Officer@reddit
This is nothing.
In 1915, Germany could produce more artillery shells than all of NATO plus Russia (in the present day) combined.
People can't fathom the real scale of the World Wars. The war in Ukraine is a minor skirmish by comparison.
Amathyst7564@reddit
To be fair, that was before the missile age when shells were a lot more central. Ships primarily fought with salvos of shells rather than missiles too.
Magjee@reddit
The USSR started WW2 with 195 - 200 million people
...and ended with about 170 million people
Over 30 million (approximately 34.4 million) personnel were mobilized during the war
Or about 1 in every 6 citizens
Yea, by comparison the wars of today are very minor
Amathyst7564@reddit
Did the USSR even exist during world war 2?
Magjee@reddit
1922 - 1991
69 Years
nice
Tangentkoala@reddit
To be honest before the whole take over the world thing and nazi Germany.
They made some pretty damn good innovative tech.
The U boat, chemical warfare, and the cipher was something else.
YourFuture2000@reddit
That was the Germany of the past. Today Germany is behind in a lot of innovation. And the economy the actual government aim is war economy, not engine industrial economy.
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
? What a load of nonsense lol, Germany is still one of the engineering and chemical hubs of the entire western world.
YourFuture2000@reddit
You are addressing an other topic.
What innovation are they bringing?
Illustrious-Run3591@reddit
Google it lol
Besmirching_Badger@reddit
In the early 19th century the germans were the global leaders in cultural and scientific progress.
Zipa7@reddit
That predates the Nazis, the German Empire first used chlorine gas in WWI, which predates the Nazi regime.
kontemplador@reddit
These news has been plastered over reddit from other outlets with even worse framing. See here in worldnews if you dare
It is Rheinmetal, not Germany, partnering with many local companies across Europe to reach that level of production.
1.1M 155mm rounds is impressive but definitively it is not the largest producer. What about Russia? What about N. Korea? What about S. Korea? India? Turkey? What about China?
Production of artillery rounds in the US has been pitiful since many years. I don't remember exact figures, but it was like 50k/year, doubling by now. The US is dependent on imports, mainly from Turkey and S. Korea to replenish its stocks. I don't doubt that some of these rounds featured in the article are going to the US too.
dusjanbe@reddit
LOL, the Pentagon has failed every audit for eight consecutive years.
So what a coincidence that all those ammunition shortage stories are coming out when Trump wants $1.5 trillion for military spending.