Is it normal for spoilers to stay deployed all the way to the gate after landing? (A330)

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Deanoh1546@reddit

Spoiler alert comment already taken so I'll just say nah that's weird. Pilot probably forgot. Happens.

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It is unusual and we sometimes forget. When the engines are switched off then hydraulic powers bleeds and the spoilers go back down. It will sometimes give a spoiler fault exam after shutdown which is easily fixed

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OnlyEntrepreneur4760@reddit

Or, if you’re a SWA pilot and you like to taxi 40 kts into a headwind 😂

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Maruan-007@reddit

Hi pilot, how you guys can forget spoilers after landing, don’t you guys run an after landing checklist when you vacate the runway and hold short waiting for ATC parking clearance ?

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Sorry_Structure_4356@reddit

After landing checklist is only for crucial items, the spoilers aren’t crucial

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f1racer328@reddit

My airline doesn’t even have an after landing checklist. Just a flow.

We have a parking checklist though.

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Maruan-007@reddit

Where you got that checklist from ? Because I found also this

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AgedAncientAge@reddit

I’m not the person you’re replying to, but on our airbus checklist that’s all we have. Radar&Pred w/s

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AwkwardBet5632@reddit

Best not to cook anyone

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Level-Ad-1627@reddit

u/Maruan-007 ‘s comment is the old checklist. The current and new (Airbus standard) checklist is just the radar and PWS as posted above.

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Maruan-007@reddit

Oh okay now I got it, thanks for the info 👍🏼

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SkyHighExpress@reddit

You have also been treated roughly because airbus release a checklist and individual operators have the ability to flex them slightly if they see fit. I have seen current operators with and without spoilers on the checklist or operators that have an after take off checklist or not on the same aircraft.

Ultimately mistakes happen l(as others have said) checklists forgotten. I have actually done the exactly same thing. In my case I saw the spoilers up on the reflection of the terminal when parking and stowed. The checklist was run but the spoilers looked disarmed and the white band around the lever which showed armed was worn and difficult to see. Would have been made worse in this case as the flight deck was dark following a night arrival

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DeepBlackShaft@reddit

Idk why you're getting downvoted so much you were just asking a question. Sorry fam.

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Jackmino66@reddit

Someone initially downvoted him for not knowing something and then others saw a downvoted comment and then downvoted it without thinking

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MmmSteaky@reddit

Because this is an aviation sub, and we’re the worst.

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ProfessorPickleRick@reddit

It had more to do with his tone, the question was asked as if the pilot was incompetent

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Maruan-007@reddit

I literally used the words “genuinely” and “just curious” for a softer tones, yet people assumed my tone were the opposite… but tbh I don’t care that much about downvotes but this clearly shows how many immature people are on this subreddit

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WOLF1218@reddit

Anyone who reasonable will know there was no condescending tone in the comment, reddit is gonna reddit sometimes

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SSobarzo@reddit

Nah. Thr problem with text is you mostly assume a tone. I think he wasn't rude, just asked as a robot and some people misjudged.

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TheHeroChronic@reddit

Neckbeards

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FlyingPhenom@reddit

Different companies have different checklists. My airline doesnt even have an after landing checklist, just a flow. Everything gets captured in the arrival at gate checklist.

Based on the photo, its night time, so fatigue could 100% account for the spoilers.

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quarterlifecrisis49@reddit

Wouldn't it fry the ramp people if you keep the radar on until the gate?

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flightist@reddit

I sure wouldn’t want to stand in front of it but it’s far less dangerous with modern radars than a couple generations ago; transmission power is a fifth or even a tenth of what it was earlier in the jet age and the safety distance can be as low as a few tens of feet.

But there’s a guy standing right in front of the nose when we’re being marshalled in, so it’s a really good damn idea to check again just before you commit into the gate. I don’t want to give anybody cataracts later in life.

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OnePUguy@reddit

Wait wait wait… not a pilot here, is the radar so dangerous? Why would it give someone standing in front of the aircraft cataracts?

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Fr0stbergion@reddit

Simply, all radars are essentially giant microwaves without a door. As long as it is on, the waves are being continously sent out and the return (i.e. echo) is what gets processed into the result you see on the display.

As for the cataracts part, just like the microwave again, the radar waves can directly heat parts of the eye, or other body parts, potentially denaturing the protein structure prematurely. Though, as the above commenter mentioned, modern commercial aviation radars are relatively low-power, so for this to occur, you would have to get unnecessarily close to the nose of the plane or it would require chronic exposure.

Still, you would rather not stand directly in front of a working radar either way.

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wjdoge@reddit

Who are you to tell me if I like microwaving my testicles and eyeballs?

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Fr0stbergion@reddit

This is a safezone, feel free to cook up some sperm soup

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Maruan-007@reddit

Now it’s more clear, thanks for the clarification

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PeteLangosta@reddit

Wild getting that downvoted for asking a question

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Maruan-007@reddit

Yeah I really don’t understand that, but this shows immature people on this subreddit, that’s fine tho I don’t care that much about downvotes tbf

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Maruan-007@reddit

Where you got that checklist from ? Because I found also this

img

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BlackDante@reddit

Ask a genuine question and end up with over 500 downvotes. You gotta love Reddit sometimes.

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Maruan-007@reddit

I think people sometimes just do that for fun or because they see bunch of downvotes then they automatically downvote without reading properly the comment

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Bon-Bon-Boo@reddit

On a Boeing, you don’t even have an After Landing checklist. Only the Shutdown Checklist at the gate.

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ps2sunvalley@reddit

Same on Airbus at my operator

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ps2sunvalley@reddit

At my airline on the 320, which is pretty close to the same on the flight deck there is only an after landing flow, no checklist. I’ve missed the spoilers before

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R-Y-A-N_bot@reddit

How many times did you forget your homework back I school. These things happen

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Lucifer1677@reddit

Companies use their own checklists or ways to complete tasks. My company does not have an “after landing” checklist, but rather a “flow” which is a series of tasks to be completed by memory which include spoiler retraction. It is very possible to be interrupted by something during this type of thing and something to be missed. We catch those items in our”parking” checklist.

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AlexisFR@reddit

Congrats on the downvotes!

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Maruan-007@reddit

Do you feel better now about it ? It’s not my fault if grown people downvote someone for a genuine/curious question, maybe you’re one of them.

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GeologistPositive@reddit

Not stowing the spoilers will not have any negative effect on the plane. When landing, they're deployed to break lift and make sure the plane is firmly planted on the ground so that the plane will have maximum braking ability. Unless the crew had to execute a go around, there's no reason why the spoilers need to be stowed.

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s4bg1n4rising@reddit

hey have an up vote bro

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TrueNorth_360@reddit

They get forgotten because it get can get busy turning off the runway and getting a complicated taxi clearance.

"Airline 123 taxi via Alpha, Delta, Charlie, and hold short of Whiskey 3, follow the CRJ and contact ground on point 8..."

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ywgflyer@reddit

Bonus points when these instructions are given with a thick foreign accent, at an airport you haven't been to for a long time, after a nice 7 hour all-night Atlantic crossing.

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Mental_Ambassador444@reddit

Or even worse, JFK! Where they'll get irrationally angry at you if you got one tiny detail wrong in the readback.

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ywgflyer@reddit

I wouldn't last five seconds there, I'd tell the controller to stow the attitude or piss off.

In the words of one of my coworkers who has zero patience for that shit, as said to EWR tower...

"My job supports your job, not the other way around. You can fly the tower, I'll fly the airplane, alright?"

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stewieatb@reddit

Some of the clips of BA pilots falling out with JFK controllers are hilarious.

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Mental_Ambassador444@reddit

Determined to not be one! I just laugh in my head at how angry they can get at a perfectly reasonable request.

Last time in the UK when I said 'sorry, I've forgotten which heading you asked me to fly after the VOR', they kindly repeated the heading and thanked me for checking! Tried to clarify with a ground controller in JFK if I can cross a taxiway, due to their vague clearance and they give back the biggest sigh ever, as though I have somehow greatly inconvenienced them by trying to keep the operation safe.

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Mental_Ambassador444@reddit

Haha, not sure giving attitude to a JFK controller is helpful, though it is funny when things flair up!

That being said I was so surprised once when a new York controller called us with just our callsign and I was thinking 'oh no, what now?' and then they just said 'I'm going to Manchester on holiday soon, any recommendations?' It really shocked me to hear that some of these controllers are actually human!

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stewieatb@reddit

'I'm going to Manchester on holiday soon, any recommendations?'

"Yeah, don't."

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real_pasta@reddit

I’ve had pilots pull up to the gate and leave engines running for a bit because they forgot to start up the APU, seemingly until parking

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ywgflyer@reddit

Years and years ago we had someone forget to shut the engines down and walk off up the bridge with both engines still at idle. Ooooooops.

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SkyHighExpress@reddit

Ouch. My heart usually skips a beat when I get and look back and see the beacon light on and I wonder what else I forgot then I see an engineer doing a daily check

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MidNCS@reddit

Glad to see that the pros make the same mistakes I do on the sim lol

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jacksjj@reddit

There’s also a minimum cooldown time, so that could play a part of it.

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badbubblegum@reddit

Such downvotes for such an innocent question. Some in this sub should learn to shave their necks.

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Maruan-007@reddit

And fun fact you’re getting downvoted too for saying this, in this subreddit there are some immature folks ngl

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badbubblegum@reddit

It was expected in sub full of smooth brains

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GeoPolar@reddit

Turn your spoilers on. You get downvoted into oblivion 😂

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SOF1231@reddit

Jesus dude you got downvoted to hell, I’m so sorry😭😭😭😭😭

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anonymoo5e77@reddit

Humans make mistakes, especially when it comes to non critical things.

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ma33a@reddit

It's a flow/ drill not a checklist item. It's also fairly easy to get distracted after landing as you tend to get a bunch of instructions from ATC and navigating some airports at night can be harder than landing there in the first place.

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ProfessorPickleRick@reddit

Wondering why McDonald’s forgot my nugget sauce in the bag maybe because humans are humans the spoilers aren’t hurting anything

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For_Fox_Creek@reddit

Sorry to see you're getting downloaded for asking a pretty innocent question.

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Maruan-007@reddit

Yeah idk why I’m getting downvoting to hell for asking questions, seems that in this subreddit you have to know everything even without owning an ATPL license, but whatever makes them happy.

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ywgflyer@reddit

On most types it's a flow, not an actual checklist. The actual checklist on the type I fly doesn't show up until the parking checklist, which is called for after engines are stopped with the parking brake set. When exiting the runway, at some point "after landing" will be called for and the FO (CA always taxis at our outfit) silently runs this flow without any reference to printed or electronic checklists -- it's not a good time for someone to be heads-down reading a checklist when you're taxiing around a congested and potentially unfamiliar airport. None of the stuff on this after landing flow is really critical or safety-sensitive anyways, just embarrassing if you forget it.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

Genuinely wondering how pilots forget spoilers after landing

Of all the things in history that pilots have forgotten... I don't think spoilers after landing ranks near the top of things to wonder about.

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banananash@reddit

Hold short after vacating the runway? You’re talking to ground who is speed reading which 7+ taxiways to take like you know the airport as well as they do and will start yelling if you are in the way of the next plane getting off the runway.

Pilots are human and mistakes will happen?

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ElFarts@reddit

My entire aviation career is filled with me forgetting stuff.

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beershoes767@reddit

Who cares, you’re on the ground safe lol

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centralhardware1@reddit

Unless it’s snowing, in that case it’s strictly prohibited

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FlakySignal4170@reddit

All of us aviation fans were curious like this at one point. Most of us still are. Let people ask questions. You don’t have to reply.

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xoxota99@reddit

The right time to perform your postflight checklist is after landing. So... yes?

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texas1982@reddit

FO just forgot to smack the lever on the after landing flow.

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runway31@reddit

Its unusual, the pilot/copilot prolly just forgot

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oli35@reddit

Don't they go down automatically once taxi thrust is applied?

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Grand-Jacket-8782@reddit

“Taxi thrust” isn’t a thing on any airplane I’ve ever flown…

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ArctycDev@reddit

I think it was just their way of describing when reverse is switched back to forward thrust after landing.

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SkyHighExpress@reddit

That would occur on the airbus if the spoiler lever was not armed. Airbus philosophy is to give spoilers regardless of where the lever is when reverse thrust is selected. In this case they would go down when you go back to forward idle. If the lever was armed, you would get it at touchdown with idle selected. In this case they don’t go down until disarmed

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shhbedtime@reddit

PF should disarm them when at taxi speed, which is the signal for the PM to do their after landing flow. Most likely they just forgot.

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spacecadet2399@reddit

Not "normal" but sometimes we can't get to the after-landing checklist in time. At a busy airport, there can sometimes be distractions and it's most important to look outside during the taxi and pay attention to clearances, which can sometimes come fast and furious. I've never had it happen on a 5 minute taxi that I couldn't get the flow and checklist done, but I can imagine it happening, especially at an airline with even stricter SOPs for looking outside during taxi. I have had it happen that I couldn't get it done on a short taxi where the turnoff is right near the gate until we actually pulled into the ramp area.

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Mike93747743@reddit

It is if they forget to stow them.

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bergler82@reddit

just means the PF forgot to whack the speedbrake lever during his after landing items.

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RdtRanger6969@reddit

It is if the deployment switch is not returned to its rest/start position.

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No_Professor_7385@reddit

Looks like an alert to me.

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Grand-Jacket-8782@reddit

This isn’t a thing. A bunch of YouTubers made it up.

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anonduplo@reddit

It is now after the 350 incident at the gate in China. You want maximum braking force all the way to standstill.

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bohemian-soul-bakery@reddit

I always thought these were called flaps?

Same thing, dif name?

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Katana_DV20@reddit

They are called spoilers and they spoil the lift therefore putting weight on wheels for effective braking.

I always felt the Brits had the more descriptive term - lift dumpers. However its a mouthful and "spoilers" does sound cool.

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jgmiller24094@reddit

Flaps extend from the trailing edge and go down slightly, they increase the area of the wing providing more lift. Spoilers interrupt the airflow on the top of wing and go up as shown in the photos. They “spoil” the airflow to increase drag and on landing help slow the plane, in flight they are also used to adjust the attitude of the aircraft.

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bohemian-soul-bakery@reddit

Is a flap “part” of the spoiler or entirely dif part of the wing?

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jgmiller24094@reddit

I’m sure there some implementation out there that combines the mechanism but no they are generally separate since they operate independently for different reasons. There are things called flaperons and spoilerons that combine ailerons and flaps or spoilers to control lift and roll.

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harrysrttgtg@reddit

A flap is its own thing

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new_x_who_dis@reddit

In the old days, the attitude would be adjusted with a slap and a stern talking to

/s

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TopGunCrew@reddit

The spoilers are the ones on the tops of the wings and go up to spoil the lift and create extra drag to help the plane stay on the ground and slow down faster. The flaps are on the backs of the wings and stick downwards to help increase lift so the plane doesn't have to take off or land at as high of a speed, which lets runways be made shorter. The flaps do also create a lot of drag though, so after takeoff they need to be retracted once they get fast enough that the extra lift is unnecessary and the extra drag will just hurt fuel efficiency.

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Sphillips2@reddit

Flaps go down, increase drag and lift. Spoilers go up, increase drag only

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Bad_Karma19@reddit

Heh, I have a 73 come into the gate spoilers up, flaps down, had every light on available, and his runway turnoff lights flashing like crazy. I was like, what the hell it that all about, is he trying to signal something????

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racerviii@reddit

All the comments about pilots forgetting. Wonder what else they forget to do?

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flightist@reddit

A non-exhaustive list of things I’ve forgotten to do in airliners (not all at once):

- arm the FD modes
- take the transponder out of standby
- select the transponder to TA/RA
- turn on weather radar
- turn on terrain
- turn off the company radio frequency
- put the transponder in alt only
- put the transponder in stby (I did this one about two hours ago)
- retract the flaps
- reset the trim

The thing is, the only one of these things that wasn’t caught within a few moments by a checklist was the company freq. That’s what checklists are for. But the checklist isn’t always actioned immediately, so sometimes you taxi in for a while and somebody in the back takes a picture of the spoilers still up, and somebody else online wonders why the ~~robots~~ pilots in the front aren’t perfect 100% of the time, and then you run the checklist and put the spoilers down.

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Sufficient_Layer_279@reddit

This post should have had a spoiler alert

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jack_harbor@reddit

Please take my angry upvote

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SSobarzo@reddit

It's not on the checklist

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Eric_SS@reddit (OP)

LOL. It actually automatically gave it one and I removed it.

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junkyard_robot@reddit

Unlike the pilots?

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Dear-Regret-9476@reddit

Add it back

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Strega007@reddit

It is part of the after-landing checklist to stow the spoilers.

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Crusoebear@reddit

Not all airlines have after landing checklists. Some just have a flow.

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Dexcerides@reddit

Is that not worrying that it could jam in the up position during flight?

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FlyingPhenom@reddit

It can, but then we also have fuel penalty tables that account for it. The 330 is really smart, and will tell you as soon as something is wrong.

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Dexcerides@reddit

Thank you for giving a genuine answer not sure what I said that called for the downvotes

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xxxxxxxsandos@reddit

Engines they put on planes now days don't give an f.

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EdBasqueMaster@reddit

No because Airbus has logics that auto stow them

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Late-Mathematician55@reddit

I had "crew was fighting off snakes" on my bingo card

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Kitty_Fruit_2520@reddit

Nope.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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Jules3113@reddit

Sometimes we forget, specially if we’re unfamiliar with the airport or if we have a complicated taxi route.

In my company, we keep our hand on the speedbrake lever while vacating the runway. We lower them until we have our taxi instructions, and we use that as a cue for the FO to do the after-landing flow.

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Metallifan33@reddit

You forget once.

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rathgrith@reddit

Ryan Air: I paid for these hydraulics and I’m going to use them!

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yoyiyouo@reddit

Ask the pilot

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MVGbear@reddit

I had them fail to retract when selected once on a CRJ900. Put them up for a segment on the STAR, and some of them wouldn’t come back down. We had 3 up on each wing, but not the same 3. Had to land that way.

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ilovebattleships@reddit

If the pilot forgets to stow them after landing, then, yes.

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StockholmParkk@reddit

Sometimes pilots forget, simple as that. they do go down because pressurization on airbus planes is controlled by the engines themselves, so after they shut down the spoilers will go down. In boeings where pressurization is a bit more manual, when the pilots routinely depressurize after a flight, they go back down too.

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