How common is it for American men to be chivalrous toward other men?
Posted by TheShyBuck@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 133 comments
I am a man and sometimes I offer my seat to a man even if he is young and sometimes I open doors for men, but I never kissed the hands of religious leaders (most of them are men).
how common is it for men to be chivalrous toward other men in the USA?
jreid1985@reddit
Technically that isn’t really chivalry…
stointyfoftq4@reddit
Most dudes will hold a door open for anyone, that's just basic manners not really chivalry. The hand kissing thing is definitely not a thing here though lol
SnakeBatter@reddit
Most men under a certain age will allow me to hold the door for them, but men aged 60s+ are either stunlocked or offended that a young lady is holding the door.
wwhsd@reddit
When youngish women started making an effort to hold doors for me is when I realized how old I probably look to people in their teens and twenties.
IBarricadeI@reddit
I doubt it had to do with your age, and more had to do with the change of culture that happened over time. I would hold a door for anyone and would expect anyone to hold a door for me.
SnakeBatter@reddit
If it makes you feel any better, I do it for everyone. Man woman, child, elder. It’s just what a nice person does IMHO.
BoringPrinciple2542@reddit
You should hold the door until they can take it but enter first (basic manners). Holding the door open for somebody is different from holding the door and allowing them to pass before you enter.
Holding the door until it is passed is sort of the respect that you give to an equal whereas holding the door and letting the other pass before entering is more like a sign of deference that is generally reserved in the South for ladies.
Deep_Downlow@reddit
I don't give a fuck who they are, go the fuck through the door Im holding and keep that overhanging subtext bullshit to your self you dawned weirdo.
SnakeBatter@reddit
As someone who lives in the south, I just hold doors period. Whether it not I’m going the same way as you, I hold it. Very few people take the door, unless they’re older men, and it still doesn’t seem to be contingent on the direction we’re going.
Purple_Technician759@reddit
I had one dude I used to work with who refused to go thru the door if I was holding it. Weird guy.
GhostWatcher007@reddit
Doesn't want anyone behind them. Probably had a bad experience.
Purple_Technician759@reddit
No, he made it wholly clear that it was because I was a woman.
GhostWatcher007@reddit
Right, weird dude. Keep your distance from him.
Outrageous-Pin-4664@reddit
I'm 63, and I'm okay with other people holding doors for me.
I'm not ready for people to be offering me their seat, though, unless there are extenuating circumstances, like if I were on crutches or carrying something heavy. I can remember riding the Disney bus at the parks, and if someone was standing there carrying a tired child, it was good manners to offer them your seat, whether they were male or female.
jvc1011@reddit
Kissing the hand of a priest or bishop is common in some Catholic and basically all Orthodox circles. It’s standard practice at the end of any Orthodox Liturgy.
BlowFish-w-o-Hootie@reddit
Eeeeewwww.
jvc1011@reddit
Sorry our religious practices offend you. shrug
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Exactly. Holding doors is just basic decency between human beings here. Men hold doors for men and women and women often hold doors for women and men. Mostly it's who's in the most convenient position to do it, although there is some bias when it's a man and a woman for the man to take the lead. But if you're a decent person men or woman you'll hold it for another decent person, man or woman when the situation calls for it.
ITrCool@reddit
Was coming to say the same about holding doors open. It’s just polite and good manners. A way to be neighborly and friendly to the community.
meghab1792@reddit
Men are much stronger with physical boundaries here. The patriarchy is strong.
schrod1ngersc4t@reddit
nonexistent, because chivalry is dead being polite, though, is kind of common generally having basic manners like smiling at someone or holding open a door is common
TheBimpo@reddit
Opening/holding doors is just normal Midwest nice, its ubiquitous here.
Kissing a man’s hand is unheard of.
So, your examples of “chivalrous” range from “every day” to “never”.
FunTricky903@reddit
People hold doors pretty much everywhere, bud.
Suspicious-Froyo2181@reddit
People in the south like to flex with things that people do everywhere.
Scavgraphics@reddit
I don't think I've ever told someone to what out for deer.
TheBimpo@reddit
We just take it to extremes lol
FunTricky903@reddit
You really don’t.
uncloseted_anxiety@reddit
Even kissing a woman’s hand would be very weird in most contexts.
Mundane-Caregiver169@reddit
Really? When I meet someone regardless of gender I kiss their hand, then turn their hand over and kiss the inside of their wrist, then pull them closer to kiss the inside of their elbow, work my way up to their neck and eventually open mouth kiss them while pulling their head back by their hair. Is that not standard procedure?
dontforgettowriteme@reddit
You had me in the first half.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
It's a little awkward with your boss, too.
dontforgettowriteme@reddit
It's weirdly gotten me a lot of promotions.
trs21219@reddit
This leads to really awkward family reunions.
GreasedUPDoggo@reddit
Lol alright that was funny.
You're doing everything right!
uncloseted_anxiety@reddit
You joke, but that’s basically what Jimmy Saville did to every girl/woman he met.
meenadu@reddit
lol. That doesn’t mundane at all!
Dr_Watson349@reddit
Yeah down here we only hold the door open when the person is just far enough away that they have to sort of run to catch it, its just normal Florida fuck you.
Euphoric_Loquat_8651@reddit
Well played, Florida!
BlowFish-w-o-Hootie@reddit
I will hold open a door for a man. For women, I hold open the door and give them a little pat on the butt as they walk through. Gotta get a little something for the effort. /j.
WickedKickinBBQ@reddit
Normal American nice
Gunzablazin1958@reddit
67: I will hold the door for anyone, and gratefully walk through a door held by anyone.
Ana_Na_Moose@reddit
What is the difference between good chivalry and good manners?
thomsenite256@reddit
There is a toxic kind of masculinity that would look down on that but for the most part that is normal behavior. You would never kiss any part of another person you aren't related to or in a relationship with generally except a very good friend maybe and never on the hand.
LABELyourPHOTOS@reddit
No one kisses hands here for the most part.
oh_such_rhetoric@reddit
I might kiss an older relative on the cheek when I say hi or bye, but it’s definitely not a huge cultural thing at least where I grew up. I’m also a woman, but this doesn’t seem to be a gendered thing to me.
youboycer@reddit
¡Que no se confunda!. Dar es recibir y damos lo que somos y tenemos. Me parece educación, modales, principios, dar lo que tenemos y por ende recibimos igual.
Así que no te culpes.
visitor987@reddit
Chivalrous means men being polite to women. Many men have good manners to other men
myfourmoons@reddit
No one is offering a seat to anyone who doesn’t appear sick or pregnant or elderly.
No one is sharing an umbrella with a stranger.
Only a small portion of immigrants kiss each other’s cheek, but I think they’re all women?
Everyone holds the door open for everyone else if they’re close enough or if they’re carrying something.
tarheel_204@reddit
Regarding the seat thing, I’m an able bodied guy and I’ll usually give my seat up if a woman is standing (I’ll also give it up in the cases you mentioned). If I’m sitting and another able bodied guy is standing, I’m staying seated
AdmiralChancey@reddit
Basically here you might hold open a door for another man but that’s about it. There are various forms of etiquette that men follow in specific scenarios but they are necessary forms of chilvary, just trying not to be a dick and it’s regardless of gender
rawbface@reddit
I definitely avoid harming non-combatants in battle, and would never attack another warrior if his back was turned. I'd allow an opponent to remount their horse, and show them mercy if the yielded to me in defeat - especially if they are noble-born, since they are worth a ransom.
Doesn't come up too much in America nowadays, though.
houdini31@reddit
People show good manners towards men but I have never heard of chivalry towards men-chivalry is something towards women.
K0T_666@reddit
A gay thing ? Not hating here. Just inquiring. ❓️
The12th_secret_spice@reddit
We’d consider that manners. Dude looks like he had a day, here take my seat.
I’m at the door first, I’ll hold the door and let whoever behind me go in first.
Chair…maybe but that’s a little out of the norm.
We don’t kiss much here, religious or otherwise. I do give friends hugs when I’m greeting/leaving a party.
the-quibbler@reddit
Chivalry is a specific form of protectionism. It's specifically cabined to the idea that women are a gating reproductive resource for the species, and less protected from physical harm, and therefore need to be treated carefully and protected from hardship.
devilscabinet@reddit
I hold the door for anyone behind me, regardless of age or gender. That's just the polite thing to do.
I don't kiss anyone but family members.
Jaymac720@reddit
I hold doors open for anyone within a reasonable distance of myself who is also going through that door. Can’t say I’ve ever pulled out a chair or opened my car door for a man, despite being a gay man lol
FireHammer09@reddit
Most men will hold a door for another man.
Friendly/platonic kissing is not a thing in the US from men to women or other men. I've seen it with women to other women though.
Fun_Machine7346@reddit
I will let down my hair?
sean8877@reddit
Ain't happening
Aware_Acanthaceae_78@reddit
We don’t do this, especially kissing each other.
confusedrabbit247@reddit
Common courtesy exists regardless of gender.
TheSolomonGrundy@reddit
Huh, doesn't feel like it lately.
SabreLee61@reddit
Common courtesy isn’t necessarily chivalry
Minimalistmacrophage@reddit
Though there are plenty of both genders that don't employ it.
StewReddit2@reddit
I mean opening a door is often just being polite, often due to traffic flow at a door aka being a non-jerk.
As for giving seats up, probably NOT gonna rush up to give a seat to a young man that isn't somehow compromised as in hurt, injured, etc. but frankly at my age depending on situation probably not jumping up for a young woman just on general principle either....unless she is compromised, pregnant/etc. Especially being the aggressive nature and possibility of sass in today's modern women, one could get told off, tbh.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
I don't know if being a non-jerk is the same as being chivalrous but that's what it generally is. You'd be a jerk not to be helpful with a door when the situation comes up. It's just normal courteous behavior.
StewReddit2@reddit
Agreed, the issue is what is/does "chivalrous" literally mean "today" vs whatever an outdated mantra may be in the modern world, especially when discussing it towards men, from men.
Because of the pollution of sex, as a guy I'd probably never use the term being chivalrous towards another man....which is why I used non-jerk aka just being polite/thoughtful in general not overly damsel in distress mantra ....just follow human
greeneyeddinosaur@reddit
I captured an enemy nobleman to hold for ransom just last week.
Practical-Ordinary-6@reddit
Did you kiss his hand?
greeneyeddinosaur@reddit
A knight never kisses and tells.
jigokubi@reddit
\^This guy chivalries.
NoodleyP@reddit
I’ll show guys common courtesy, if they set off the gaydar than I’ll take it up a notch
Major_Enthusiasm1099@reddit
If you're from the ghetto, the things you Mentioned are seen as gay.
MCMLXIXLXIX@reddit
My husband always opens the car door for me. He likes it, I feel silly, but let him. I’m 6’4 250lbs. He’s 5’6 150.
HardcoreHope@reddit
I work retail so I try to make sure I complement men just as much as women when they come through my line.
Jim_E_Rose@reddit
The real answer is that chivalry is not an American thing in general. The South has the whole being a knight thing and there are sires everywhere. But playing out that ego trip isn’t a general thing here
iowanaquarist@reddit
Common.
Still common
Do people not do this somewhere? Why does the sex or gender even matter?
This is about as common as pulling out a chair for a woman.
Not a common thing in America
Why in the world WOULD you? Man, or woman, why would you kiss the hands of anyone, especially a religious leader?
Why would you?
Most of that is not 'chivalry', it's just common manners and not being homophobic...
No_Entertainment_748@reddit
Not very common although with women my state in particular has a massive performative male problem around women more than most states.
Own-Vegetable-2710@reddit
Y'all aren't kissing the homies on the mouth? I must be doing it wrong
Not_An_Isopod@reddit
It’s mainly just holding the door kinda stuff. And that kissing your saying never happens. Giving up a seat for an elder or injured person is common enough.
Mediocre-Oil-5322@reddit
Hold a door open: yes. That's just basic manners.
Pull a chair out: only if he's very old or very young.
Kiss: only my one Puerto Rican friend who does that kind of thing.
Generally speaking, most American men probably see women as deserving of more gentleness, care, and protection. Men, on the other hand, are largely assumed to be able to protect themselves, and are therefore on their own.
gdubh@reddit
I hold a door open for anyone. I kiss the hand of no one.
uncloseted_anxiety@reddit
It really varies depending on the behavior, and the context. Some things, like holding doors and offering up your seat on the bus to someone who looks like they need it, are seen as good manners/common courtesy, regardless of gender.
Pulling a chair for another man is more complex; it can be seen as courteous (especially if the man is older/has mobility issues) but can also come across as obsequious (like you’re kissing up to him), emasculating (like he’s mogging you, as the incels would say) or presumptuous (‘how dare you assume I need help!’). Egalitarianism and independence are important values for a lot of Americans (at least in theory), so when people act like servants, it can make us uncomfortable; and if we see someone being the target of servant-like behavior, we may perceive that person as entitled or self-important.
Sharing an umbrella with another guy would likely make him uncomfortable, because of the aforementioned independent, egalitarian mindset; it might hurt his pride or cone across as you trying to flex on him (or flirt with him, because you have to be very close to someone in order to share an umbrella, and straight men in America are usually very weird about sharing personal space with other men (the hot tub meme is not an exaggeration). If i saw two guys walking down the street under the same umbrella, I would definitely assume they were a couple, or at least queer friends, because of how weird straight men usually are about this stuff. (And with a female stranger, the gallant thing to do would be to give her your umbrella; offering to share it would likely be interpreted as a ploy to get her within arm’s reach).
As for kissing the hand of the Pope or whoever, that’s seen as very subservient, and a lot of men would probably feel too proud to do it, even if they were Catholics. Because, again, we’re all supposed to be created equal. So even if a guy is above you in the hierarchy, kneeling or kissing his hand on whatever would likely be seen as degrading.
These are generalizations of course; there are always exceptions. As I said, a lot of it depends on context (how well do you know the guy? What’s his position relative to you? How hard is it raining? Will it cause an international incident if you don’t do it?) And because America is so diverse, we don’t really have a monoculture; any or all of these things may be normal for one group and weird in another. Also, I’m not a man. But these are my general impressions, take them or leave them.
TheShyBuck@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the detailed answer I appreciate it.
I would pull a chair for another man only if I know him or if he is old man.
trer24@reddit
I don't usually open doors for other men, but I do hold it open for them if I'm the first to step through.
BoringPrinciple2542@reddit
I think this is the divide.
Common manners are to hold the door and depending on how close I am I may interpret you closing the door as a direct act of disrespect to me.
But common courtesy and “chivalry” are different in my mind. Most of what I see here equates to common manners. I was taught to treat women, kids, the injured, disabled, etc with greater deference so where I might hold a door until a man walked could grab it and then enter, I might might hold it until a woman & her kids enter and ask if anyone else is coming before closing the door.
Big_Hovercraft_3626@reddit
These things are common in my country where I am from I'm from Saudi Arabia but I don't think it's necessarily chivalry but manners where you from
ubiquitous-joe@reddit
It’s gonna vary by action. Doors I will hold open for anyone reasonably close behind me. We don’t do much cheek kissing for anybody, men or women. Umbrellas, well were such a driving-centric culture and unless in a city, probably we don’t have much occasion to share one randomly. I’d share with friends & family but not often strangers.
SabreLee61@reddit
A lot of people here are conflating chivalry with courtesy.
It is common for Americans to be courteous to one another. It is quite another thing for men to be chivalrous toward other men by opening doors, giving up seats, or pushing in chairs. That would be unusual, and in many cases it could be taken as an insult.
TheShyBuck@reddit (OP)
And why would opening doors, giving up seats and pushing in chairs be offensive?
some people mentioned that they hold doors for other men.
purplishfluffyclouds@reddit
I don't think "chivalry" means what you think it means.
HotButteredPoptart@reddit
I'll hold a door for anyone. I only kiss my wife.
Constellation-88@reddit
It isn’t even common for men to be chivalrous toward women in the USA. We have common courtesy like holding the door for someone, but it’s not gendered. The pull out your seat thing would feel weird to get as a woman. The umbrella thing is another common courtesy thing.
Boopa0011@reddit
I draw a distinction between politeness and chivalry. They may look the same, but "chivalry" is ultimately indistinguishable from the customs of medieval knights and it's so tied up in men's feelings of protectivity toward and ownership over women. So, I just wouldn't use that term unless I was talking about men treating women a certain way.
Anybody can, and should, be polite and courteous to anyone else, male or female or both or neither, as regularly as possible. Lots of American men are, generally speaking, polite and courteous toward others, including other men.
Kissing the hand of a religious leader is neither chivalry nor politeness - it's culturally-related deference. Numerous religions practiced in America have elements of this "deference." It's not always kissing a leader's hand, but it can be!
TheMissLady@reddit
Offering your seat to another person will be seen as a bit odd unless they deserve it more than you (disabled, pregnant, elderly)
Far-Increase8154@reddit
I hold the door open for everyone
viomon2@reddit
Nah man, women are special. If a guy is clearly in need of help, like on crutches, I’d offer him my seat. Depending on who it is, I’d give the other guy the umbrella. If the situation dictates it, I would open the door for another man. But, I’d stand and wait patiently for a woman to go through the door if I saw her approaching from a distance. A man would have to have his arms full or be right behind me.
TheShyBuck@reddit (OP)
I am a man and I think men are special.
why? because I like to make friends with men more than women. hahahahaha
viomon2@reddit
Men are a different kind of special. But, I didn’t mean to sound like I’m knocking out gender. If I had grown up in another place I’m sure my opinion on how one interacts would be different.
TheShyBuck@reddit (OP)
This is just my opinion it doesn't reflect the views of people who live in my country.
IconoclastExplosive@reddit
I'd hold the door for anyone.
I'd die before I kissed anyone's hand.
I don't use umbrellas but I'd offer shelter to someone who needed it.
showerbabies1@reddit
Eh. It’s considered chivalrous to do those things for a woman or child. Weird to do it for another man.
jreid1985@reddit
Technically your question doesn’t really make sense- a man cannot be “chivalrous” toward another man. Chivalry involves interactions between men and women.
FunTricky903@reddit
I can see how someone who has no clue what chivalry is could believe that.
AlarmedWillow4515@reddit
Well, he's not wrong by one definition of chivalry on Dictionary.com:
FunTricky903@reddit
If he wants to get “technical” about what chivalry is, he should know what it actually is.
atomicitalian@reddit
I will hold a door for anyone.
I'll offer my seat to an elderly man or someone with an injury or disability (or anyone carrying a baby) but if it's just a regular able bodied dude like me, definitely not. I got there first this time and next time it'll be me standing, that's just how things work.
CouldntBeMeTho@reddit
...unless they're clearly disabled or like...a Vietnam, Korean War or WWII veteran or something...absolutely not lol
trampolinebears@reddit
Fun fact: the average soldier who fought in the Gulf War is 62 now.
CouldntBeMeTho@reddit
damn. Time goes quick. I take nothing from their valor of course, was just thinking of my elders.
SabresBills69@reddit
it skews toward those older or younger with holding doors
FunisGreen@reddit
Smaller town, I've seen it happening more. Bigger city I've seen it too. I think the speed of people moving in cities just force people to move along, instead of been polite to everyone.
ChessieChesapeake@reddit
Depends what you consider chivalry I guess. Common decency still exists and I see it regularly.
Holding doors is very common. Can’t say I ever pulled a chair out for a man though, unless they needed assistance. I’ve never kissed anyone on the hand, man or woman, and that definitely isn’t a common thing in the states unless you’re in a relationship.
ohaimike@reddit
Strangers, I'll hold the door open and things like that. I will be a polite and nice person
The boys, im 100% kissing the homies every greeting and when saying bye, even a kiss goodnight
one-off-one@reddit
We can be courteous and polite, but chivalry was largely a fictional literary concept in the first place.
CheeseMongoNJ@reddit
I don't think "chivalrous" is the right word here. Maybe courteous? I don't go around looking for opportunities to open doors but I'll hold one open if I'm going through and someone's behind me.
jwfowler2@reddit
I knighted a man on the street just the other day, mayhaps.
ta91919191@reddit
The most chivalry I see is people holding doors open for others, which in my experience is pretty even between genders. However, I do see more men greet/chat to each other in passing than anything else.
mhoner@reddit
Of course. Good manners go a long way.
BigDamBeavers@reddit
Do you mean challenge them to a fair duel to address grievances? To refuse to conduct yourself in war against a lesser men? To not allow men to speak ill of their liege?
Pretty often actually.
ChainWise6768@reddit
There needs to be a very clear context before I'm going to offer another man my coat or offer to grab his hand or arm when helping him somewhere. Even women who say "I love a chivalrous man" in context are often saying "before I'm going to agree to a sexual relationship I want to see that he treats me in a certain way"... so a connotation has developed that the man is treating the woman in a certain way in order to show that he is someone she should like to have sex with.
All that said, once it is obvious that is not the context, I am just as likely to be "chivalrous" towards a man.
Sea_Analysis_8033@reddit
I try to be nice to everyone it’s weird to be nice to women specifically
swagestan@reddit
It's quite rare. Most American men are too busy whining about how "being a man is hard" to show respect to women.
winteriscoming9099@reddit
I’ll hold a door for anyone. I definitely don’t kiss the hands of anyone. I probably wouldn’t offer up my seat unless the person in question is old/frail, injured, pregnant, disabled, etc. And I’d be courteous towards anyone.
gremel9jan@reddit
more courteous than chivalrous. It keeps the propensity for misunderstanding and violence to a minimum
9human-being@reddit
I don’t see this much, except maybe holding the door. It’s not that men are rude to each other or anything, but not necessarily ‘chivalrous’
Secure-Ad8196@reddit
They Definitely hold doors but that’s just a very common thing to do. I’ve never seen any men do other acts of chivalry for other men
Crimsonfangknight@reddit
I would sooner rush to hold the door Open for a man than a woman woman are equals and this can rush to Hold the door Open for a man like me!!!
/s
Idk man i dont think about that stuff treat people equal regardless
DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit
I will open doors for anybody
RioTheLeoo@reddit
Idk about chivalry, but yea very common to be polite and courteous to other men.
You should treat everyone with the same care regardless of gender imo
Just-a-nerd2@reddit
Not very. Chivalry has been dead for awhile now among all genders.
Aschuff@reddit
I open doors for guys all the time. Idk about giving up a seat as I don’t ride the bus or anything, but I’d say I’m equally as chivalrous towards men as I am towards women