Can a violent child be put into care? If so, how?

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

He’s 14. Police said if he was 18 they’d be arresting him. But because he’s a minor they can’t do anything. Which is crazy as he’s making threats to people and physically hurting his family

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Well that's not true !

Have the police reported it to social services as domestic violence?

Why are schools not involved - surely the younger children's school have recorded safeguarding concerns to social services.

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Funnily enough social services only got involved because he’s been skipping school. And then his parents admitted how he’s actually like to social. But they said that there are too many kids waiting to go into care atm. So they won’t take him. Even though he’s a clear threat. Family are plastered in bruises atm from his latest outburst and they’re all shaken up

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Not sure social services are actually legal able to say that.

Sounds like he needs a secure unit - which will need a criminal conviction i would think.

Theres presumably a reason why he is behaving like this which presumably hasnt been assessed by a psychologist or psychiatrist?

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

He’s been acting badly for years. Everyone thinks he might have autism or adhd that’s been left untreated for years and has now lead to this. But his parents didn’t get him tested before. And he’s not at an age where he refuses to even go to the dentist

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StarSpotter74@reddit

Look at the case of Nicholas Prosper only a couple of years ago. There's also a 24 Hours Police Custody 2 part on him. Lad of around 18, appears to be undiagnosed, set out to attempt a heinous attack on a primary school but was fooled by his mother. He killed her and his two younger siblings. It is very real and very serious. You and his family know this child, services need to be involved right away. For everyone's safety

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

I just looked up his case. Very scary. Similar to my nephew. He games a lot and plays violent games. He also has obsessions. He was obsessed with a lot of crime stories back in the day. So this is very alarming

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

So the parents didnt actually get him any help when he was younger ?

Around 80% of the uk male prison population is suspected to have undiagnosed/untreated ADHD.

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himit@reddit

Around 80% of the uk male prison population is suspected to have undiagnosed/untreated ADHD.

The proportion's probably higher for parents of kids with adhd/autism - it's highly heritable. Odds are the parents have it so either didn't have the werewithal to do all the follow-up required to get him assessed given all the stress, or figured "oh no, all kids go through a phase like this, I acted like that too and so did all the children in my family and we grew out of it!" until it got too late.

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Maybe but OP said they had been violent for a long time - and that school only acted bevayse of absence so we dont know what school behaviour is like but its not been mentioned. In this current school climate you would imagine there have been detentions and behaviour points and suspensions !

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DameKumquat@reddit

You're assuming there was help available. It's incredibly common for parents (and school SENCos) to be told a kid doesn't meet the criteria for assessment, or they are put on a waiting list for assesment that they're still on five years later, or they get a diagnosis and then that's it - no help follows on from that.

And that's for nice middle-class articulate families chasing all the right people regularly. If you don't know who to chase and accept authority figures telling you you're not a priority, then it's very likely a kid like this would have got no help.

Most male prisoners have at least one of dyslexia, autism or ADHD, generally undiagnosed though at least dyslexia is.more.often.diagnosed by teenage years now, for GCSEs.

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Dyslexia is no longer diagnosed by schools or NHS in England.

It is estimated there is no concrete data yet due to being undiagnosed and lack of supoort in prisons for those diagnosed has actually caused suicides.

Not disagreeing with you but if they have not asked for help - why - OP says school have only just started safeguarding due to absences - so is he not acting violently and aggressively there?

If not, that is very interesting.

These behaviours (speaking from personal experience) can stem from abuse.

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lex-2025@reddit

Get the parents to phone social work tomorrow and say to social work they want him out of the house and they will hand over parental rights to him, they need to come out and pick him up and place him somewhere that’s safe for him until a court order has been sorted out, this could be a foster care or residential care as if he’s deemed unsafe then foster care might not be the best option for him, if he assaults anyone in the home then the police need to remove him, h can be arrested he’s over the age of 10 in Englandireland and wales it’s 12 in Scotland, the police shouldn’t be allowing this as he could end up hurting or killing someone, is there any other family that can take him tonight if it’s dangerous for him to be in the house? If not then phone the police they need to remove him if the parents don’t want him there.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Just sent this comment to them. They’re gonna look into it. Thank you

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Fuzzy_Albatross_8121@reddit

You should follow the great advice given so far but in the meantime you need to make a safety plan to keep everyone safe from harm and reduce the risks.

In my experience it's a good idea to get a lock box/mini safe and put all the sharp kitchen utensils away so they are not easy to grab in a crisis.

Talk through how to keep younger children safe before things escalate then you are not in a panic in the moment. Maybe have a code word so they know to go to a neighbour or shut themselves in their rooms if necessary.

What are the triggers? Is it overwhelm? Anger or frustration? Are there sensory issues? PDA? Is the young person able or willing to talk about what happened after the event? You need to gather as much information as you can to try and head off incidents before they happen. I it is ADHD or ASD or both, then a diagnosis is not the cavalry you are hoping will save you. You need to become a nuisance to all the services that should be supporting you and do not stop until you get what you need for the safety of the whole family.

I wish you lots of luck. I've been there (police, CAMHS, ambulances, extensive psychiatric support) and it's incredibly difficult. We have come out the other side now and things are 99%calm but it took me years to get the right school, counselling and support in place. It can be done so be persistent.

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lex-2025@reddit

Hopefully the boy gets help before he hurts or kills somebody good luck 🤞

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StarSpotter74@reddit

He is over the age of criminal responsibility (10 England, Wales and N. Ireland, 12 Scotland) they absolutely should be making arrests.

Parents and siblings should be recording (audio, video and diary journal) with photos of bruising/damage too

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Outrageous_Solid_700@reddit

Speaking from experience. I contacted my doctors surgery. Referral needed. I'm surprised school hasn't picked up on it. Underlined issue that NEEDS attention and TODAY. God bless you and your family. Peace

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Can you give me some help on this? I’m trying to coach the parents through as they’re so overwhelmed and I’m a bit unfamiliar with this stuff myself. Anything helps as I just want to make sure they’re safe and have all these options available for them

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Outrageous_Solid_700@reddit

My eldest son will be 28 this year. I nipped it in the bud immediately. I rang my doctors. Explained what had happened and how it is out of my hands how to deal with what I witnessed. 3 siblings, my niece and myself, playing with the sofa cushions. Not aggressive, just playing around throwing the cushions at each other. One came towards my sons head and he tried to avoid it getting him. So he dodged it and hit his head on the radiator. We all laughed because it was funny. He saw it but forgot he had a wall and radiator behind him. He didn't wack his head, just merely banged his head slightly. He was fumming and what happened next was just shocking. He got off the large footstool, stormed out of the lounge, through the hallway, into the kitchen. Grabbed a hammer and chased his sisters and cousin into the downstairs toilet. I jumped up when I saw he was holding a hammer, screamed his name saying 'No, put the hammer down'. My eldest daughters and niece, are now in the downstairs toilet, locked the door. In one swing my son hit the door. Now, my heart is in my mouth, my mind is racing and I'm praying they don't open the door as the hammer is already in full swing forwards. The door remained closed, thank the lord. The actual incident was over in seconds. Believe me, it was all in slow motion, looking back right now. The next morning, when my doctors opened. I rang them to seek urgent help. My family doctor rang me back the same day, in fact it was within the same hour of ringing them. He told me, that I did the right thing and there are protocols he has to follow. He told me that he would have to refer me to child services. That all happened and my son was on a waiting list to be seen by a child therapist. Jonathan was his therapist, my son was 13 years old. I massive shout out to this man who transformed my sons mindset. When things get too much and you are flustered, or feel like your not being heard. Go for a run. I bought him 2 pairs of running trainers. So he had a change of feet, as I say. Luckily we live with countryside around us. Rain, shine, morning and early evenings. Mum I'm going for a quick run. When he came back, hugs galore and a different teenager altogether. Never had another situation like that. Years later we mention it and be like, what is going to happen? My son apologised for his action/s. But I believe in my heart, if I would of done nothing and let it ride. I'd be visiting my son behind bars. You must, please. Not let it get any worse, than it already is. Peace

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NecroVelcro@reddit

Your child bumps his head and you "all laughed because you thought it was funny"?

"... just merely banged his head slightly". It still would have been painful. What has gone so desperately wrong in your family that a bang to the head is seen as a source of amusement?

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Outrageous_Solid_700@reddit

Your missing the whole point. We weren't all rolling on the floor laughing at him. We were all laughing together from throwing and dogding the cushions. I grew up and teach my children. ZERO violence. Playing with cushions is fun. Have a roon full of kids and you will understand. I saw what could be a furure problem with fun, to which it suddenly escalated into something else. I seeked help immediately. Could of easily brushed it under the carpet and never gave it another thought. Of course, you had to be here/there to see it for yourself. Any person deliberately hurting or harming another is NOT a good sign. The child is question is continuing to harm his parents and his siblings too. I was merely giving my only account of what actually happened to me. If you, read my short story wrong. That's on you but in this case. I wanted to give my account and hoped it would help just ONE person to stop, think and take action via the qualified doctor. Peace to you

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NecroVelcro@reddit

It may have been poor wording on your part but did the laughter stop after the knock on the head? Even after a small bump, that is where the focus should have been.

I in no way said that his over--reaction was justified so the rest of your defensiveness was unnecessary.

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Outrageous_Solid_700@reddit

I'm not agreesive, if my reply was taken that way, it wasn't meant to offend you. He didn't bang his head in a way that needed attention. It was the fact, that he got the hammer. I don't think you understand what it is like to act like a kid and play. You were a kid at some point in your life. Every single person on this planet has.

If, I ignored his action/s. I would 100% be a mother with a child in jail. 28 this year or 50 years old. When you have children, they are your children no matter what age. Being miserable is some peoples way of life. I wake up happy, I send all my haters a video message saying Good morning. Peace & please don't bother replying back to me

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NecroVelcro@reddit

I didn't mention any aggression on your part. You've misconstrued what I said: again.

I didn't criticise the children playing. I didn't suggest that you should have ignored his actions so why are uiy responding as if I did?

Your son's therapist said that he should go for a run if he felt like he wasn't being listened to? Why did he feel that he wasn't being listened to?

And again: he shouldn't have lashed out. I haven't defended that at all, no matter how you misread what I've stated several times.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Unfortunately he’s had many issues like this. I’m hoping that in time he will get better. But I worry it’s gone on too long

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RiverCalm6375@reddit

Social worker here - More context is needed around this - does the child have a label such as ADHD, ASD? Are they in school? GP would be a good step. Also, Children’s services. If the younger siblings are in immediate danger then it needs to be a 999 call. The parents need to do this, Children’s Services won’t discuss anything with yourself.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Suspected ADHD and autism but not actually confirmed. I’ve mentioned getting in contact with the GP. But as both parents work they struggle taking the kids to see a dr. But im hoping they’ll be able to work something out. It seems like the likely next step from how the conversations with them are going

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Embarrassed_Park2212@reddit

This is going to sound harsh, like I'm sorry but they are going to HAVE to take a day/week whatever off work to get this child seen. God forbid anything serious happens because they work.

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GetCapeFly@reddit

It doesn’t sound harsh at all. It’s a requirement of being a parent to see to their child’s medical needs. All children need to see a doctor occasionally and most parents work. I suspect the parents are more anxious about the consequences of the visit (understandable).

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RiverCalm6375@reddit

A GP referral will be quicker than anywhere else, it still wont be quick but at least they can get on the pathway.

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Fuzzy_Albatross_8121@reddit

Some LAs only accept referrals from school - so the school needs to collect the evidence and start the process onto the pathway. I referred 3 of my children myself under the old system my LA used but the remaining 2 had to be referred through school when the process changed. GP was not involved at all in the process for either set of referrals so it's important to check the local pathway situation as there are so many different variations around the country.

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txteva@reddit

Yes, there are homes who have staff trained in the level of care needed. It's not cheap (can be covered by council) and might not be local but they will give him the support needed.

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Aggressive_Poet_7059@reddit

Im going through this with my son i went to the gp who did a referral to CAMHS and for a support worker The house has been peaceful for The last 6 weeks thank god ive lots more information and resources or for advice or support dm me any time it can feel so isolating dealing with a child with these behaviours x

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BuckTeethedGirl@reddit

The parents should contact PEGS for support: https://www.pegsupport.co.uk

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Nkhotak@reddit

Yes but it’s very hard.

As others have said, the parents need to contact the school/police/social services/GP. They need to stress that this is a safeguarding issue and there are children in the household who are victims of domestic violence and that it is escalating.

They should contact https://www.coramfamilylives.org.uk/about/contact-us/ in the first instance. They can support and advise in situations of child-to-parent abuse.

I’m afraid there’s very little chance of an admission to a psychiatric hospital. I guess if the parents have very good health then there’s a very slim chance they could get him admitted to a private hospital, but without an underlying mental health condition that’s unlikely.

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amidnightthrowaway@reddit

NSPCC could point you in the right direction for children with violent behaviours. If he has not already been via his GP, they will refer him to specialist services, it is not always social services.

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StarSpotter74@reddit

Police, social services, doctors ASAP.

Is his threat something that he's repeating or is it a one off "I will kill you"? Not that it matters. But a threat to life coming from someone over the age of criminal responsibility who has a history of violent attacks should absolutely be taken seriously by all agencies

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Repeating. We have multiple messages of him saying this to people. Mostly his mother. Which is ridiculous because she’s the only one who has ever been there for him.

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StarSpotter74@reddit

Has he went down the red pill/manosphere trap? Or is he lashing out at the person closest to him?

He, and is family, need urgent support. I hope someone helps them before they're another news story :(

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ShinyHeadedCook@reddit

They can call the police. The police dont do f all but still call them and keep calling them.

Being young aint an excuse for being violent.

Also call social services. Him beating his siblings up is a safeguarding issue.

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GrandAsOwt@reddit

Call the safeguarding officers of the other children’s schools too. The more information social services have, the better.

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nocerealever@reddit

Yes you can relinquish a child but it’s a lengthy process

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liltrex94@reddit

Police and social services as others have mentioned. Not sure if you are the parents or a concerned witness, but if the parents or siblings don't comply/back up the behaviour it might be difficult.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Parents want him gone. He’s beaten his mother up so many times. His dad’s a waste of space. He’s vile to his siblings and beats them up. Police and social aren’t doing anything atm. We need something fast as he’s gotten really bad lately and I think he is going to kill someone in his immediate family soon. They’re all so afraid

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liltrex94@reddit

Then they need to be looking at psych wards. Police and social services should not be ignoring this.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Do you have any idea how to get him into a psych ward? Managed to get his parents on board with this idea. They’re so afraid and want to sort this out before it gets worse. Thanks

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PabloMarmite@reddit

Does he have a diagnosed mental health condition?

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Mental_Body_5496@reddit

Parents want him gone - delightful parents - no wonder he has problems !

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humunculus43@reddit

What is the motivation? Does it warrant a referral to prevent? If not, find some big lads down the pub and get them to give him a kicking

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

What motivation sorry? And he’s in trouble with older kids all the time. He looks older even though he’s 14

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PabloMarmite@reddit

First things first, you need a social worker.

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TheGreenPangolin@reddit

I don't know how to prevent another situation. But if you can't sort something and he beats someone up again, the whole family should go to A&E. If he has siblings under 18, the hospital will see they are in danger, and they will force social services to do something.

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PetersMapProject@reddit

This isn't my area, and I'm not specifically recommending it, but I have read of parents who've ended up taking their children to school and refusing to take them back at the end of the day, to force the hand of SS

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2lnd5wj9z5o

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Unfortunately he walks home. So that wouldn’t work. However he could get his key taken off him

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PetersMapProject@reddit

Rather harder - leaving the child at school means they're always in a place of safety with a responsible adult. Locking him out offers no such guarantees.

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DameKumquat@reddit

The safeguarding leads at all the schools the kids attend need to be informed that home is not safe because of violent child.

Copy in the SENCo at the school of violent child, because if they aren't aware already they should be.

This can be an email to the schools with Urgent: Safeguarding in the subject line and obviously name and relationship to the kid in the text, but a follow-up phone call is also a good idea.

Call social services saying you/the parents can no longer cope with violent child's needs, and home is not safe for the other children. And parents are willing to consider foster care in order to keep everyone safe. The schools will be contacting them too and being listened to faster, but they're the ones who organise foster care.

Contact GP asking for help assessing child's needs as well as support for all the family - this will likely lead to being on various waiting lists forever, but sometimes they're useful.

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Ding-Dong-Diddily@reddit (OP)

Thank you this is very helpful. I’ll be looking into this asap. Im worried about the other kids at school. He’s been reported for bullying multiple times. I think it’s been mental and not physical but it’s still not okay. And I know that he’s had trouble with his own friends who he goes to school with. Always falling out with them. He’s also a tall and heavier boy so he’s got an advantage against people his own age. And I worry for the women. He has made a lot of sexist comments and I’ve met his “girlfriends” who mention they have to tell him off for comments he makes. Writing all this makes me feel sick. I just want this sorting asap. I do worry about what his next move will be

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DameKumquat@reddit

If he's still going to school, that's a good start. And has some friends there. You mention the dad is a waste of space - does he live in the family home?

In the short term, does violent kid have his own room? Can he be reminded to go there when things are getting too much, before he starts yelling or swinging fists? Are there things that set him off? Also has he ever been assessed for things that may be making his life harder - dyslexia, autism, ADHD etc? Asking the GP and school about potential causes may also help eventually.

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Short-Shopping3197@reddit

Call your local authority safeguarding team, let them take it from there.

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ActionBirbie@reddit

Yes. And usually it's for the best.

When a child is consistently violent, there is nearly always a cause of parental abuse and/or neglect behind it.

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smellyfeet25@reddit

Yes I would think social services should be contacted as soon as possible. This situation cannot and must not go on . it could lead to tragedy . This needs attention right now.

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BlackberryNice1270@reddit

Get help. GP, social services, school, school nurses, even the police, all the agencies. They will all work together anyway when the issues are raised (or they should), so start getting them all involved yourself now to get things moving. I'm sorry, it's hard to come to terms with.

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