ReactOS Introduces Unified Live/Install Media, New Storage Driver

[-]

That old 486dx running your only working table cutter. The software doesn't run on Windows 11, but it does run on XP just fine. Backup the software, swap out the IDE drive for a SATA SSD, install ReactOS, reinstall your software. You can even switch the hardware to something a little bit more modern and maybe a USB to Serial to talk to your table cutter.

[-]

fellipec@reddit

Nice, but who is doing that? I know people that is doing that with Linux CNC but not with React OS.

[-]

cosmicorn@reddit

It’s not just CNC machines, there’s a vast range of industrial machines and scientific instruments out there, all handcuffed to software written for old versions of Windows.

Most of them are too niche for native Linux support to ever be created. They often interface with proprietary ISA or PCI cards that won’t have Linux drivers, so Wine isn’t much use either.

A drop in replacement for XP and older Windows would be genuinely useful for these machines.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

You would just use XP. You are trying to fabricate none sensical scenarios where react magically makes sense and it doesn't.

Plus people don't hold on to out of date scientific devices like they used to. It's now too cheap to not upgrade and guess what? They have linux support as most modern science equipment needs anOS more stable than Windows and that also takes react out.

[-]

the123king-reddit@reddit

It's a little known fact but a large proportion of established manufacturing still runs on DOS and older Windows versions.

Heck, i bought a PDP-11 that for what i understand was still being used in a production CNC shop until the early 2010s

[-]

fellipec@reddit

Sure it would be useful, but, you know any place that use ReactOS like that?

[-]

spyingwind@reddit

Small buisnesses that are afraid of Linux, and can't tell the difference between 2000/XP and ReactOS.

[-]

fellipec@reddit

I think that is the intended use case, but I really want to know a real one, I never heard of anyone using it not for testing.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

There's no use case for react.

The original goal was to create and open source NT 4.0 alternative. That never happened. As goal posts moved no goals were ever met

People try to fabricate use cases but none make any sense

[-]

pppjurac@reddit

Not really and not everytime as sometimes programmers used non documented system calls or dll's that used some tricks.

You can replace IDE with IDE<->SD (various types) storage to offset old failing drives. Write endurance is not really a thing due to small amount of data beeing written.

The most problematic are various specialised ISA bus and regular PCI cards - like controller for oldish laser engraver that picky about interrupts and BIOS settings . Those sit in some god damned and abused machine full of dust and caked with emulsion in corner. And will flatly refuse to even initialize when something is not expected as they wish. True Satans spawn I say.

Ones that communicate over good old RS232,RS434 are easy to solve, just install software into emulator of DOS (vdos and similliar) and point RS ports to either USB<->RS232/434 cards or multi-port RS card. I have to try if Proxmox with CPU simulation can do that too.

For big machines you can get modern replacement PC controllers under retrofit and refurbishement programs (i know Kellenberger does that gladly), but once machines are out of long term support, well you are on your own. I did earn some nice 'Schilling' by helping to get used machines and replace failing old hardware.

And then comes time, when 35y old cutter has to be replaced with new, fast one. But good thing is, Linux is now main OS on many, many PC-PLC combos and it runs wonderfully.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

I see people make this claim as reacts use case and that's just nonsense.

Why replace XP react OS? No really. There's no functional reason to ever do that.

XP supports more hardware, supports more software, is more secure and stable, is documented, etc

React would literally do nothing but be a downgrade in every aspect

[-]

nabagaca@reddit

Extremely niche, but maybe if you needed internet connectivity and didn't want to use a VM for some reason? (Still, I think using a modern OS as the host and passing hardware through to a virtual machine would still be the better solution)

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

So we're back to fabricating nonsensical scenarios.

If something needs and internet connection you use a modern supported platform period.

And again how does react fit that bill? It's not stable, doesn't support shit, is poorly documented, has no education paths for it, has no organization backing it, and offers nothing any alternative doesn't already offer.

[-]

PseudorandomNoise404@reddit

Imagine running your favorite Windows applications and drivers in an open-source environment you can trust.
That's the mission of ReactOS!

Got this from their homepage. Frankly, they need a new mission because I'm already doing this with other Linux distros right now.

[-]

Useful-Can-734@reddit

I use Linux off and on, but it has fundamental design flaws that will always prevent it from becoming mainstream (like a lack of a real SDK for 3rd parties to program for, and thus no long term binary compatibility [just try getting old Linux binaries to run, especially closed source ones, not going to happen]) Then a few months ago they broke the VIA USB3 controller driver, if it were Windows you guys would be all over how unstable it is, but fact is if every time Linux broke something like that got the same reporting as when Microsoft does it, There would be 50x more "x broke on Linux" news articles for every time Microsoft screwed up, but it's just not newsworthy. It's just not stable *if measured by desktop standards instead of server standards like "uptime."

[-]

Yoksul-Turko@reddit

You are missing Windows drivers part. While most popular devices have Linux drivers, there are niche hardware with official Windows drivers. In theory, finished ROS would run it.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

Like what? There's really no old meaningful hardware missing Linux drivers at this point and anything new enough won't work on react.

Also let's keep it realistic, there's no theory where react gets finished.

[-]

JonBot5000@reddit

Think about like old CNC machines or lab instruments that only ran on XP with highly specialized drivers. Linux doesn't have drivers for that shit. The goal of ReactOS is to be a drop-in replacement for XP in these cases just like FreeDOS (more or less) eventually became for MS-DOS.

[-]

Yoksul-Turko@reddit

There will always be random niche proprietary products with only official Windows drivers. I don't have a good example but I remember having issue with sound on a Huawei laptop because they made something and didn't release drivers. It is not meaningful for most people, but it can be meaningful for the owner of the product. For Linux driver, you have to reverse engineer the hardware one by one.

By saying "in theory", I am trying to tell you "assume". If someone says "On a flat plane, sum of angles on a triangle is 180°". You can't just say "It is unrealistic to have a completely flat plane". Also, goals doesn't have to be realistic. They are goals, unaccomplished, all goals are unrealistic. If you told me Linux will boot on Apple's ARM processors with graphical acceleration when M1 MacBook released, I wouldn't have believed you. Yet, Asahi Linux exists.

[-]

fellipec@reddit

In theory, a finished ReactOS would run it.

Great, but I asked

have no idea if there is any use case at this moment.

[-]

litterally_who6354@reddit

They are not running natively under Linux unloke reactOS

[-]

Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

But this aims for better support than what WINE can provide.

This is literally a kernel that works like NT. This means a fully compatible OS being open source and without the issues of dealing with virtualization or compatibility layers. If they manage to get Win10 compatibility It could lead to people relying less on propietary OS which is always good

[-]

ronaldtrip@reddit

After 30 years they are in a largely unfinished Windows XP stadium. Impressive, but ultimately unusable. Windows 10 will take at least another 40 years. I don't think I will see a functional ReactOS in my lifetime.

[-]

Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

I mean, they said they wanted to give Support to Windows 10, they can just Skip vista, 7 and 8.

And the compatibility with XP is right there. The most difficult part was probably the begining specially creating the kernel + drivers Support, if they Focus just on compatibility I'm not sure if It would be that difficult

And the ReactOS team and the WineHQ team helped each other. It's not a bad project and It can help to understand better Windows without having to rely on reverse engineer or rebuilding Windows tools

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

There's no magical skipping anything. Windows is literally just newer bits stacked on top of older bits.

If you skip vista there's no DWM base. There no updated compositor, there's no support for bigger drives, etc. Skipping 8 also means the ground work for the newer memory management won't be there for windows 10 and the programs that rely on it.

It seems like every react OS fanatic has no idea what actually is needed to be done for react to be useful but for what ever reason thinks that the project that had the goal of being a replacement for windows NT and failing to to even that for 30 years will some how magically accelerate and replace modern windows.

Sorry to say but react is and always will be in pre alpha.

[-]

Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

I never used It, however there is always people Who ignore every advances for no reason...

Having an open source implementation of Windows is always good as It speeds Up the development of libraries for compatibility layers, there is a reason for WineHQ to help the project for years...

[-]

ronaldtrip@reddit

Rudimentary support for Windows XP is there. It will take a lot of further development and stabilization. Which wil take several years and then it can claim compatibility with the historic Windows XP.

Then they need to start implementing NT 6 compatibility. This is not a matter of skipping Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 and just going to Windows 10. They will need to implement all APIs and libraries that were developed during 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 that are still relevant.

It will take a long time. Nobody is using this as a daily driver. So development will be slow and Windows will still be a moving target. If community development doesn't pick up significantly, ReactOS will always be an engineering curiosity.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

It never was going to take off, especially not now that Linux is a replacement IS for many people.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

Well for starters wine isn't virtualization.

Second React is based heavily on wine code.

Third there's really no inbetwen "compatibility layer" anymore. Wine and proton pretty much just replace windows libs like DX.

If proton is an "extra layer" then that means DX is as well.

The difference here is proton is 8 years old and runs just about every Windows game while react is 30 years old and does almost nothing.

[-]

Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

"without dealing with virtualization or compatibility layers"

And you don't just need libs, you need to moddify calls and binary execution. Some software relies on older versions of WINE for a reason. When you rely on the user having to manually do testing you have an issue

And proton can not get kernel level compatibility, React can get that. Hating on a project for no reason is stupid

[-]

Straight-Opposite-54@reddit

It's a cool proof of concept, but that's all it is and that's all it'll ever be outside of maybe a few niche industrial applications. Anyone who thinks it'll ever reach even close to parity with modern Windows is living in a fantasy and I'm willing to bet my life on that lol

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

Nobody is ever going to replace a window machine for a react one for CnC. It's a legal liability and is also meaningless. If it only works on XP and doesn't need web connections then just do that, why downgrade to react?

Also no ATM will ever use react. Period. It's again a legal liability and there's no reason windows or Linux wouldn't be a proper option.

[-]

Infinity-of-Thoughts@reddit

I will counter with: Because they can? or; why not? Or; because open source is important simply by existing as a counter to proprietary software.

What is the purpose of GIMP, when Photoshop exists? Photoshop is, objectively, a better product than GIMP, so why waste time developing it?

Windows gaming is, objectively, better than Linux gaming, so why are people wasting their time on WINE?

[-]

Solid_Error_6401@reddit

I know of some companies that used this for their old DOS apps for POS and some other Inventory systems - but thats all in a DOS app. They chose this for purely cost reasons. And yes they had lots of issues on the OS but settled when they got the right version running. It was very smooth soon after. The other option was Linux on DOSBOX which was better but had different issues, updates and other strange interruptions for some reason. I would have chosen Linux but this had been running for years on an old PC without being restarted.

[-]

CDninja@reddit

No, but the code introduced by it can be used in other projects. Notably WINE.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

Wine has given far more to react than react has ever given to wine.

[-]

Dwedit@reddit

Might be nice for writing Win32 drivers, you get an environment that you can fully step through and see all the kernel code. Get it working on ReactOS, then start trying to get it to work on actual Windows.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

It would literally be faster and easier to just do that only on windows.

[-]

Dwedit@reddit

It's more about seeing the logic about what your kernel calls will do, and also where the callbacks to your code come from. Yes, Windows lets you debug kernel mode code, you even get the real symbol names in the call stack. But you can't see the actual logic in the Windows kernel because it's not open source.

Yes, even though ReactOS logic and Windows logic don't necessarily match. But it's close enough to assist with development.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

So your idea is instead of using driver tools provided by MS you would make drivers for not windows and see how it operates not in windows and then that will break in real windows but this is some how magically better?

Yeah, this idea literally makes no sense

[-]

Useful-Can-734@reddit

A handful of people running abandonware come up from time to time. I think there was someone using it on an offshore oil rig computer because of its small download size for something unimportant.

[-]

Yoksul-Turko@reddit

It can load Win XP graphic drivers. It only supports single core. You technically can run old programs and do some work. But it wouldn't be best way to be productive. You can install Win XP itself and do same things with no compatibility issues (and multiple cores).

While it is still niche hobby OS, it's trying to load Windows drivers, which improves compatibility. For example, manufacturers like Huawei can create a soundcard and only put Windows driver. Linux would require reverse engineering.

I like to joke ROS is that great, manufacturers already created drivers for it.

[-]

the_abortionat0r@reddit

No. React has been and always will be permanently stuck in pre alpha.

[-]

Infinity-of-Thoughts@reddit

Contrary to all other responses here, I will counter with: Because they can?

What is the purpose of GIMP, when Photoshop exists? Photoshop is, objectively, a better product than GIMP, so what is the purpose?

MacOS is, objectively, a better desktop experience (outside window mangement) than both KDE Plasma, and GNOME, so what is the purpose?

Windows gaming is, objectively, better than Linux gaming, so why are people wasting their time on WINE?

[-]

vince1171@reddit

From the README of the project:
"ReactOS is currently an Alpha quality operating system. This means that ReactOS is under heavy development and you have to be ready to encounter some problems. Different things may not work well and it can corrupt the data present on your hard disk. It is HIGHLY recommended to test ReactOS on a virtual machine or on a computer with no sensitive or critical data!"