The past year or so of American politics and world events have solidified my position within Libertarianism.
Posted by highonlife2005@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 19 comments
[removed]
AitrusAK@reddit
OP, I agree with you on most points. Trump tired in Round 1, but got stymied by the entrenched swamp and gross overreaction to COVID (which ended up being politically convenient for Trump's naysayers). Because Trump didn't know how things worked the first time around, he apparently decided to have a heavier hand this time around. I don't blame him - if I were in his shoes and had his motivations, I might have done the same thing. I don't like it, don't approve it, but I understand it.
The major point I disagree with you on is ICE. Everything ICE is doing is legal, and as a libertarian I support it. Having a nation doesn't matter if there's no borders, no control over who gets to come in and live amongst us. Part of being a libertarian is free association, however, I can't freely associate if I'm surrounded by people of any nation, creed, or color who aren't supposed to be here and who I'm forced to interact with as I go about my day.
People say that illegals need to get due process. Being arrested and summarialy deported IS the process that they are due. 8 USC section 1299a (removal proceedings), section 1225 (inspection and expedited removal), section 1252 (judicial review), and section 1362 (right to counsel) and section 1240.1 (rules for how immigration courts work) is what what outlines the due process.
The most contentious aspect that people don't understand is that this all seems to be "warrantless" and that these individuals lack access to counsel and don't get their day before the judge. The thing is - they already had their day (which they often never even showed up for, but there was a court-appointed counel present and available if they had been there). Most times the judgement is summary (as with any case where the defendant doesn't show up), and when they do show up they get to have their say. Arrest and deportation is usually the next step in the majority of cases (asylum is available for a narrow set of circumstances, most immigrants don't meet those criteria). What ICE is doing is simply the next step in the process.
As far as warrants go - They are using warrants that are issued by one of the 700+ administrative judges who presided over the court proceedings described above. What's confusing is that they work in the Department of Justice’s Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) rather than the regular judicial system of courts we all are familiar with. They're not the same thing - the judicial system we know is for criminal and civil issues, the EOIR is for immigration and asylum claims. The EOIR has existed since 1983, so what's going on isn't new - it's just on everyone's radar now because it's politically convenient for the leftist media to make a fuss out of it.
Beautiful-Ad-6187@reddit
We told you this would happen, you voted for him bro
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
insightful
Beautiful-Ad-6187@reddit
I dont mean to be a dick, but you kinda dug yourself into this hole. You played a stupid game and you won a stupid prize
A_Vinegar_Taster@reddit
Get this person a podcast immediately.
OP, that was extremely well said. Excellent rant. We all need to get our messages out to the masses. Libertarians, Minarchists, Objectivists... we all need to be screaming our message out to the people.
If now is not the time for a Libertarian President, then I have no idea when would be.
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
I feel if thomas massie or rand paul could expand on their Libertarian views more while still holding some conservative values to keep gaining support from moderate republicans/conservatives (after trump is done and maga is hopefully done), a libertarian leaning president in tn republican party with support from republicans snd conservatjves could pave way for the actual libertarian party to start gaining more popularity and power within congress or just local elections the least. not sure though, thomas massie nor rand paul dont seem like the type to run for president, and with how fragmented the right is currently i fear democrats and the left will have their way in the mid terms and in 2028. just look at NYC, Mamdani might seem like a honest guy, but his policies he’s proposed are just straight up socialist. he also called for banning all semi automatic rifles.
Brilliant_Forever_53@reddit
That would be great but from all I see, libertarianism is sadly widely unpopular, especially in the US (and practically everywhere else too). I would definitely consider myself a libertarian but all I see around me is division and left and right both being authoritarian as fuck. Even though I’d hope so, it don’t think that’s gonna change soon
A_Vinegar_Taster@reddit
I think that Libertarians haven't gotten the spotlight for two reasons: one is that the news media are prostitutes and they have been completely bought by the Republican and Democrat parties. two is that Libertarians are BORING.
Give me a Libertarian Presidential candidate that says that "Government is a failure." or that "These politicians are stealing your money to spend on themselves." and you'll see some buzz. You'll see interest when the first Libertarian candidate says that the other two parties perpetuate a secret oligarchy, and that they are both a part of the same system of exploitation and oppression. Blame them for why you can't afford a house. Blame them for the war in Gaza. Blame them for the Drug War. Blame them for why we get taxed so much and why things keep getting worse, not better. Go at the Dems and the Republicans hammer and tongs and you'll get the people behind you. That's the candidate we need, not some warmed over Green Party candidate (no offense to Jill Stein, she's not bad).
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
> two is that Libertarians are BORING.
This is definitely true. The Libertarian Party of today doesn’t try hard enough. Like at all. As corny and as out of touch as it may seem for politicians and political organizations to do this, the Libertarian Party could benefit greatly from actually gaining young voter’s attention and support by taking advantage of social media like the Democrats and Republicans too, instead of hiding away from the spotlight like they always do and running on classic/old school campaign strategies. Younger voters have been shown time and time again to be consistently more likely to be more socially liberal than the average person in America, but because of that Democrats have that stronghold over that demographic and therefore there are also more likely to be more fiscally liberal as well. If Libertarians could actually gain their attention through means that literally consume half their day-to-day livelihood (social media)- Boom. You now have a higher chance at converting young voters to your cause. Whether it will work is dependent on how well your candidates and their campaigns perform. Libertarians generally agree that immigration enforcement shouldn’t be extreme and aggressive and borders should be less restrictive (debatable among the party). Campaign on that, and you can reach out to a lot of Latinos and immigrants who’ve felt disparity because of the immigrant laws and enforcement. Actively denounce the War/Genocide in Gaza, and just don’t support attacking Iran. Don’t be afraid to do it. Maybe watch your words as a potential candidate, but nearly considering nearly 90% of Democrats and their voters are against the War in Gaza/Iran (Ironic considering half of them will still accept money from AIPAC), you will most likely not get much of an issue from the left if you denounce the war and Israel (so long as you don’t talk about it like some alt-right conspiracy theory podcaster), campaign on Anti-Gaza/Iran War (assuming the war and oppression of Palestine and possibly in Iran will still be occurring in 3 years) and you will at least have an anti-war and anti-interventionist stance established to a voter base that isn’t mainly controlled by Christian Zionists funded by AIPAC (Republicans). But the only true success you’ll truly have with Democrats is most likely the voters, probably not the party themselves. With the Socialist/Democratic Socialist direction the Democratic Party has been going since the rise of figures like Zohran Mamdani, Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Rashida Tlaib, and the mainstream Liberal establishment endorsing these figures and polices, trying to truly establish a bipartisan consensus between Democrats and an Libertarian running under the Republican Party is not likely. Socialism is the antithesis of Libertarianism.
As for Republicans, they already have been very fiscally conservative for the past 10 years since the rise of Trump and the spread of populism throughout the mainstream Republican Party members (I guess you could say), but then you’d need to convince the majority of rural blue-collar workers who don’t really care for being socially liberal and the Paleoconservatives, Neoconseratives, Christian Zionists, and Populists who absolutely don’t want to be socially liberal. Most rural blue-collar workers don’t care for the legalization of marijuana, equality for the LGBTQ and minorities (though that doesn’t necessarily need to be a main priority as there already is equality in a civil rights sense), ending the war on drugs, or cutting support to Israel and their war of aggression, and Paleoconservatives, Neoconseratives, Christian Zionists, and Populists most certainly don’t care for the legalization of marijuana, ending the war on drugs, or *definitely* cutting off money and aid to their precious zionist allies. If you want to pander socially liberal ideals within the GOP (considering that most of the party consists of geriatric septuagenarians), I’d say your best bet would be through aggressively campaigning and rallying sort of in the Trump/MAGA style (without the incessant insulting and empty political threats). Republicans seem to be attracted to candidates that make the most noise, whoever is the loudest, just literally whoever talks the most, regardless of whatever they even say. It worked for Donald Trump in 2016, it’s what got him the Republican nomination and eventually (nearly) all the party’s support. For a Libertarian however, considering all that I said, being socially liberal (not the most attractive to the average blue-collar worker, definitely not attractive to Paleoconservatives, Neoconservatives, Christian Zionists, or Populists) only gives you a bit under half to maybe even just a third of the Republican to really bother pander to without just wasting your time. The Libertarians, Moderates (which a few are also Libertarian-leaning), Ex-MAGA, and (potentially) the Problem Solvers Caucus (PSC). There are already 2 Libertarian/libertarian-leaning Republicans in Congress, Thomas Massie and Rand Paul. Moderates make up about 18-27% of the GOP, but it may be tricky trying to reach out them because many of them consist of the Pre-2016 Never Trump Establishment Republicans (Key word being “Establishment”, because these are the same reptiles that boomers elected in for the past 30-40 years and supported shit like the War on Drugs and Terror and, of course, the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001). The Ex-MAGA, could be tricky to sway, because if you find some that are the type to return to moderate conservative politics, you could at least hook them with your fiscally conservative policies and then reel them in later on with socially liberal policies (Very tricky, a moderate conservative is still conservative on all fronts. Just more likely to be open-minded possibly). But then there’s the Ex-MAGA that either: (A. Were abandoned/kicked out by Trump himself, but still hold their hard-right populist views. (B. Left MAGA themselves, but still hold their hard-right populist views. (C. Left MAGA and the GOP to join the Democrats after COVID, Jan. 6, etc. All three of these options of objectively not intelligent considering you’re running on a campaign of social liberal/fiscal conservative policies. Pandering to hard-right populists for support just because they stopped liking Trump isn’t going to get your agenda anywhere. Pandering to potentially moderate/conservative-leaning Democrats might be beneficial. As I said in the Democrat section in the beginning of this very long comment, trying to pander to them might be a futile endeavor due to the rising socialist environment of the party, and the Liberal Establishment has been increasingly endorsing and promoting this environment and shunning those who don’t. So I couldn’t imagine said Establishment would take too kindly to an outsider Libertarian trying to sway their Ex-MAGA insiders members back to the right just on a more liberal note. So that leaves me with finally the Problem Solver Caucus. They are a small faction within the GOP of Moderates that focuses on bipartisanship with the Democrats to make compromises on legislation. Pandering to these Republicans isn’t about them being Moderates, it’s about them being bipartisan and making compromises, which implies that they would (potentially) most likely be a mix of liberal and conservative both socially and fiscally. They’d be the perfect target to hook line and sinker. But really their support depends on if they aren’t consistent of Establishment/RINOs that are only working with the Democrats for some agenda or gain.
Don’t forget there’s always independent voters. Never forget about them. They the most overlooked voters in elections, though they tend to just lean towards one party or another.
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
>two is that Libertarians are BORING.
This is definitely true. The Libertarian Party of today doesn’t try hard enough. Like at all. As corny and as out of touch as it may seem for politicians and political organizations to do this, the Libertarian Party could benefit greatly from actually gaining young voter’s attention and support by taking advantage of social media like the Democrats and Republicans too, instead of hiding away from the spotlight like they always do and running on classic/old school campaign strategies. Younger voters have been shown time and time again to be consistently more likely to be more socially liberal than the average person in America, but because of that Democrats have that stronghold over that demographic and therefore there are also more likely to be more fiscally liberal as well. If Libertarians could actually gain their attention through means that literally consume half their day-to-day livelihood (social media)- Boom. You now have a higher chance at converting young voters to your cause. Whether it will work is dependent on how well your candidates and their campaigns perform. Libertarians generally agree that immigration enforcement shouldn’t be extreme and aggressive and borders should be less restrictive (debatable among the party). Campaign on that, and you can reach out to a lot of Latinos and immigrants who’ve felt disparity because of the immigrant laws and enforcement. Actively denounce the War/Genocide in Gaza, and just don’t support attacking Iran. Don’t be afraid to do it. Maybe watch your words as a potential candidate, but nearly considering nearly 90% of Democrats and their voters are against the War in Gaza/Iran (Ironic considering half of them will still accept money from AIPAC), you will most likely not get much of an issue from the left if you denounce the war and Israel (so long as you don’t talk about it like some alt-right conspiracy theory podcaster), campaign on Anti-Gaza/Iran War (assuming the war and oppression of Palestine and possibly in Iran will still be occurring in 3 years) and you will at least have an anti-war and anti-interventionist stance established to a voter base that isn’t mainly controlled by Christian Zionists funded by AIPAC (Republicans). But the only true success you’ll truly have with Democrats is most likely the voters, probably not the party themselves. With the Socialist/Democratic Socialist direction the Democratic Party has been going since the rise of figures like Zohran Mamdani, Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Rashida Tlaib, and the mainstream Liberal establishment endorsing these figures and polices, trying to truly establish a bipartisan consensus between Democrats and an Libertarian running under the Republican Party is not likely. Socialism is the antithesis of Libertarianism.
As for Republicans, they already have been very fiscally conservative for the past 10 years since the rise of Trump and the spread of populism throughout the mainstream Republican Party members (I guess you could say), but then you’d need to convince the majority of rural blue-collar workers who don’t really care for being socially liberal and the Paleoconservatives, Neoconseratives, Christian Zionists, and Populists who absolutely don’t want to be socially liberal. Most rural blue-collar workers don’t care for the legalization of marijuana, equality for the LGBTQ and minorities (though that doesn’t necessarily need to be a main priority as there already is equality in a civil rights sense), ending the war on drugs, or cutting support to Israel and their war of aggression, and Paleoconservatives, Neoconseratives, Christian Zionists, and Populists most certainly don’t care for the legalization of marijuana, ending the war on drugs, or *definitely* cutting off money and aid to their precious zionist allies. If you want to pander socially liberal ideals within the GOP (considering that most of the party consists of geriatric septuagenarians), I’d say your best bet would be through aggressively campaigning and rallying sort of in the Trump/MAGA style (without the incessant insulting and empty political threats). Republicans seem to be attracted to candidates that make the most noise, whoever is the loudest, just literally whoever talks the most, regardless of whatever they even say. It worked for Donald Trump in 2016, it’s what got him the Republican nomination and eventually (nearly) all the party’s support. For a Libertarian however, considering all that I said, being socially liberal (not the most attractive to the average blue-collar worker, definitely not attractive to Paleoconservatives, Neoconservatives, Christian Zionists, or Populists) only gives you a bit under half to maybe even just a third of the Republican to really bother pander to without just wasting your time. The Libertarians, Moderates (which a few are also Libertarian-leaning), Ex-MAGA, and (potentially) the Problem Solvers Caucus (PSC). There are already 2 Libertarian/libertarian-leaning Republicans in Congress, Thomas Massie and Rand Paul. Moderates make up about 18-27% of the GOP, but it may be tricky trying to reach out them because many of them consist of the Pre-2016 Never Trump Establishment Republicans (Key word being “Establishment”, because these are the same reptiles that boomers elected in for the past 30-40 years and supported shit like the War on Drugs and Terror and, of course, the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001). The Ex-MAGA, could be tricky to sway, because if you find some that are the type to return to moderate conservative politics, you could at least hook them with your fiscally conservative policies and then reel them in later on with socially liberal policies (Very tricky, a moderate conservative is still conservative on all fronts. Just more likely to be open-minded possibly). But then there’s the Ex-MAGA that either: (A. Were abandoned/kicked out by Trump himself, but still hold their hard-right populist views. (B. Left MAGA themselves, but still hold their hard-right populist views. (C. Left MAGA and the GOP to join the Democrats after COVID, Jan. 6, etc. All three of these options of objectively not intelligent considering you’re running on a campaign of social liberal/fiscal conservative policies. Pandering to hard-right populists for support just because they stopped liking Trump isn’t going to get your agenda anywhere. Pandering to potentially moderate/conservative-leaning Democrats might be beneficial. As I said in the Democrat section in the beginning of this very long comment, trying to pander to them might be a futile endeavor due to the rising socialist environment of the party, and the Liberal Establishment has been increasingly endorsing and promoting this environment and shunning those who don’t. So I couldn’t imagine said Establishment would take too kindly to an outsider Libertarian trying to sway their Ex-MAGA insiders members back to the right just on a more liberal note. So that leaves me with finally the Problem Solver Caucus. They are a small faction within the GOP of Moderates that focuses on bipartisanship with the Democrats to make compromises on legislation. Pandering to these Republicans isn’t about them being Moderates, it’s about them being bipartisan and making compromises, which implies that they would (potentially) most likely be a mix of liberal and conservative both socially and fiscally. They’d be the perfect target to hook line and sinker. But really their support depends on if they aren’t consistent of Establishment/RINOs that are only working with the Democrats for some agenda or gain.
Don’t forget there’s always independent voters. Never forget about them. They the most overlooked voters in elections, though they tend to just lean towards one party or another.
mountain_crypid96@reddit
My awakening was almost exactly like yours, realizing I was not a republican because my morals didnt align with their policies. I voted for trump the first time but have only voted 3rd party since. I applaud you for making the journey. I think there are a lot more people out there that think like us but in order to reach the point you have arrived at, they must first admit to being wrong in who they voted for. People are just too proud or too prone to give in to peer pressure to take the first step. Good job buddy 👏
minormodifications@reddit
I agree with pretty much everything here. I am for sure a libertarian at this point and also a conspiracy theorist lol but I honestly believe so many of the politicians on both sides don’t do what they need to do for fear of assassination/their family’s safety by some absolutely disgusting powers you mentioned in your post… but like you said knowing the truth and getting justice… “that’s all just a pipe dream”
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
politics is a tough game. when you step up to hold public office, you swore an oath to the Constitution and to defend America. you take the risk of being someone’s enemy when you speak out against against corruption. but unfortunately politicians no longer have the courage to speak out anymore.
though i don’t truly believe literally every politician is “guilty” (pertaining the the epstein files that is), they are actively being complicit by not allowing it to being solved/bringing all those involved to justice. like i said, not every politician is literally “guilty” in a criminal sense, but more than likely they have their own agenda that they want to push. especially those who accept money/donate to AIPAC. they are bought out politicians.
minormodifications@reddit
Oh absolutely. I believe many more than we even suspect are compromised/bought and will value their own needs/wants over our nation and those of us who elected them in the first place. That’s why there is specific verbiage about threats BOTH foreign and domestic!
Phaylontis@reddit
This reads like the feaver dream of a leftist trying to convert libertarians.
highonlife2005@reddit (OP)
i’m socially liberal and economically conservative. that is how I interpret Right-Libertarianism, and how most definitions seem to as well. America was founded on the principle of equality and freedom for all. while those fundamental principles might have been applied differently 250-300 some years ago compared to now, it doesn’t change the fact that those were the core values our founding fathers set in stone for their progeny. today those values are being threatened. you are correct, i did sound like some crazy libtard ranting on tiktok in 2018 about shit that would’ve felt nonsensical and nonexistent to the average Trump supporter. but now most people are realizing, including me, that he has completely gone off the deep end, will only accept nothing but loyalists under his leadership, is a pawn to Israel, and will do anything to push his agenda. just like the Democrats had been doing for the past 10 years. he became the very thing he swore he was fighting against. in his quest to “drain the swamp” he ended up becoming one with the swamp.
AAbattery444@reddit
I'm an actual leftist. This guy is far from advocating for leftist policy lmao. He's just sane.
Start accusing people of being leftist when you know what being leftist means.
pervertoftime@reddit
I’m a right-leaning libertarian.
From where I’m standing, no matter who you are voting for it’s only going to improve America by about 1%. The news networks will not tell you that.
All politicians encourage policies that spend more money than what America takes in from taxes. It’s been that way for +30 years. Whether Democrat majority or Republican, the habit of spending more than we take in from taxes doesn’t change.
All politicians encourage policies that give billions of dollars of foreign to Israel that Israel isn’t required to pay back. Since about 1950, America has given Israel over 275 billion dollars. America gave Egypt over 75 billion.
Practically all politicians make empty promises.
I mostly agree with you about trump. I do want to mention though, I honestly do feel trump did a lot better of a job on border security over all. I don’t totally approve of how I.C.E. Officials are conducting their operations, but in comparison to the lack of security previously I feel that America’s border security was greatly improved. Also, I like Trump’s push to initiate the “save America act.” I give him credit for those things. I’m trying to see the bright side of things a bit.
I sometimes feel America was dropped slowly down the toilet after the end of the civil War when the government became MUCH more federalized, and at the same time they also started taxing us to keep land we already legally owned. It’s kind of hard to call the USA a free country when you can’t even really own land and ICE agents gun people down without any structured accountability.
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