If you want to prevent the next iteration of Spirit
Posted by Kdj2j2@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 66 comments
It’s time to talk about Private Equity and the horrors they wrought on this industry. There was a WSJ article about two years ago about how PE came in to reshape Spirit for a merger with JetBlue or plunder for bankruptcy. It was illuminating.
It went into detail about how everything was stripped. Permanent check-in desks were swapped out for part time rentals. Any employee who could be made part-time was made part-time. Everything that remained was mortgaged or leveraged. The only thing left standing were the routes and the employees, and the insinuation was that those would be mortgaged if they could be.
When the merger that was going to make the private equity wildly wealthy, fell apart, they pulled chocks and disappeared.
This is not a novel strategy. It has been used by private equity over and over again. See Sears, Toys “R” Us, KB toys, and many others.
But more disappointing, and more to the point, is how this has been used in the past against aviation and flying. This is the exact strategy of Frank Lorenzo, Carl Icahn, and many of the other Raiders of the late 80s and early 90s who killed off, damaged, and ruined beloved brands in the industry.
The only difference is the new guys hide behind vapid corporate names (Bain Capital, Trían Partners, etc.). And the rebranded from “Corporate Raiders” to “Private Equity” investors.
This is a cutthroat industry. There will always be someone struggling. And they will always fall prey to the promises of quick “cash infusions” of the PE guys.
If we are to prevent another Spirit, it is important that some reform is forced on the world of PE. ALPA, APA, SWAPA, et al need to use those big lobbying dollars to get PE reform to the table. Otherwise any number of us could be next.
Addendum: PE already bought in to Southwest.
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NuclearPopTarts@reddit
If only JetBlue had thrown Spirit a lifeline.
Nobody would be against that, right?
chuckop@reddit
🙄 JetBlue is a non-discount airline and would have swallowed Spirit and raised prices. That’s anti-competitive and anti-consumer. That’s what a Ronald Reagan-appointed judge ruled.
Spirit not once, but twice rejected offers from Frontier, another discount airline, which likely would not have had difficulty.
Shuttle_Tydirium1319@reddit
I work for a PE backed flight school. It’s absolutely “win” at any cost.
There’s good people there, and most of us try to do the best for the students!
As we get further and further on in their ownership cycle and they are struggling to offload us up and cash out, their expectations continue to grow. My team is bare bones and since we can’t hit their very high numbers, our jobs are always vocally under threat. Of course this stress gets reflected to our instructors and students.
I’d love to move on and get some sanity back but this economy sucks and I’m struggling with that. I’m happy to employed, and recognize that’s more than many, including the Spirit group.
TLDR: PE sucks and is huge part of the continued enshitification of our world.
smokie12@reddit
Keep trying to break the cycle man! All the best.
laxintx@reddit
xredbaron62x@reddit
95% of the time the reason a business has turned to crap is because of PE
Express-Way9295@reddit
Red Lobster!
philocity@reddit
Now is not the time, B-52s
general-noob@reddit
Came here to say this.
Historical_Gur_3054@reddit
In addition to reform/regulations on private equity the leveraged buyout needs to either be tightly regulated or outlawed entirely.
The leveraged buyout is SOP for PE firms, buy a profitable public company, saddled the company with the debt used to purchase it, strip the assets from the company to pay the PE firm and then let the husk go bankrupt, taking all of the employees with it.
Repeat as needed.
TenderfootGungi@reddit
Outlawed entirely.
keithps@reddit
Most of the time these companies are not doing well financially to start. They're weak animals the PE preys on. Sure, there are exceptions but in a lot of cases the companies are laden with debt, barely (or not) profitable and circling the drain. Not defending PE but these aren't well performing companies that they're killing.
snarkle_and_shine@reddit
Absolutely spot on. That this is SOP should be criminal. Sadly it isn’t.
KinkySFGreek@reddit
Private equity should be banned or regulated to death.
daves1243b@reddit
Spirit was publicly traded prior to both bankruptcy filings. Private equity, while bad on many levels, was not the cause of Spirits demise.
RumSwizzle508@reddit
Eh. It Reddit. 5ey don’t know PE from hedge funds from any other form of investors. It’s what ever is the boogie man of the day.
dagelijksestijl@reddit
Private equity gets blamed for what is piss poor management and unreasonable expectations.
CantDoThatOnTelevzn@reddit
Well, what 5ey don’t know can’t hurt 5em, I guess.
Turbo_Normalized@reddit
You think anyone here even knows what private equity is? 😆
74_Jeep_Cherokee@reddit
Summer of 22 or 23 maybe, anyhow Spirit did almost as many passengers in MCO as Southwest did, with half as many planes. Yet, didn't make any money... BS.
That's when the PE raiding started.
daves1243b@reddit
The P in PE stands for Private. PE doesn't normally involve publicly traded companies. They typically can't get a controlling interest to do their damage. You would see all kinds of lawsuits from other shareholders if they attempted the PE playbook in a public company.
WeeblsLikePie@reddit
PE can buy into publicly traded companies and make themselves huge pains in the ass as activist investors though.
Time_Restaurant5480@reddit
I agree. PE really needs reform but it wasn't the issue here.
RockMars@reddit
Wrong on all accounts. Spirit was a public company before it went bankrupt.
PE has every incentive for a business to thrive. Sears, Toys R Us, KB Toys etc are all examples of distressed assets where PE is the buyer of last resort.
ethan1231@reddit
How is this downvoted? It’s the most factually right post in the thread
NuclearPopTarts@reddit
Typical Reddit, the one accurate, factual post gets downvoted to oblivion.
ethan1231@reddit
This is quite a poor take. Spirit, not jetblue, were pe owned. The following airlines are pe owned
Atlas (Apollo). They are killing it and are growing at a rate that wouldn’t have happened otherwise
westjet (onex). Transatlantic expansion would have never happened at the current pace
-suncountry was owned by Apollo. Business totally transformed into something positive
The point is that PE is an ownership vehicle. It can do well, it can also be an issue . That’s happens with public ownership too. At the end of the day, being an airline is a tough business and it’s a market where companies can go under.
GGCRX@reddit
What are you talking about? Indigo Partners, which is a PE firm, has had a majority stake in Spirit for the last 20 years.
Majority stake means they get to steer the direction of the company. PE absolutely played a major role in the decisions that led to today.
ethan1231@reddit
They sold their stake in 2013…
JT-Av8or@reddit
PE (Arcline) bought up all the general aviation part producers. Now a SLICK magneto went from $500 to $2,000 etc. No competition, you can’t just make a non certified alternative so we’re trapped with watching a Janitrol heater go from $5,000 to $20,000 just to keep your light twin cabin from freezing.
N70968@reddit
As one of the ForeFlight devs that was laid off after we were bought by Thoma Bravo (PE), I understand this pain.
StageIVRetardation@reddit
As somebody who still works for them, it kinda seems like everybody is still waiting for the other shoe to drop.
ABCDOMG@reddit
Private Equity is a scourge
fly_awayyy@reddit
I’ll just point out and leave it here that PE turned around SWA and made them more in line with their peers and that earned them a profit this quarter vs last l.
21MPH21@reddit
Give them time, Rome wasn't burned in a day
fly_awayyy@reddit
Time? I’m sorry but they just solidified and protects the jobs of the thousands of employees that work there. At the end of the day idc too much an employee for the feel good stuff. I want job security and that involves brining profits into the door. Paid premium seats, assigned seats, and bag fees is hardly something to create an uproar over it’s just standard.
21MPH21@reddit
But do pax enjoy it, or is there an uproar?
There's an uproar.
Will the uproar go away, will WN pax grow to like assigned seating, paying for premium seats and bag fees? You obviously think so. Cool.
I don't. I think it'll force pax to look at other airlines which is really not good.
Guess we'll see in a year or two
messick@reddit
Since SWA is publicly traded, you are going to have to give that PE firm in your head a bit more than just time.
swakid8@reddit
Elliot group has sold quite (I think they sold them all already) a bit of their positions. They made a nice profit without saddling Southwest.
21MPH21@reddit
like I said, give them time. it's their standard practice
swakid8@reddit
Give what time, they sold their positions…. Southwest balance sheet is in better shape today then it was before Elliot bought in…
BlurryEcho@reddit
We obviously do not care what golden parachute the PE firm nabbed, that is not the point of the comment you replied to. Their pint was that SWA may be showing higher profits in the near-term, but that the PE firm may very well have tanked long-term profits by stripping out everything that made the brand unique.
swakid8@reddit
Look I am not here defending PEs…..
PEs that deserve the rap are those who come and raid companies. Actually strip company of assets, cash, load them up with debt.
Great examples are Frank Lorenzo, Carl Ichan…
I like said, Southwest is in better position after Elliot came in, forced changes which results in more revenue, his positions increased in value then he bounced. He didn’t strip Southwest of assets, cash, not saddled them with debt.
Folks predicting Southwest downfall are going to be in for a rude awakening.
21MPH21@reddit
I see they sold some during a stock surge
U said the same above. Now u say they sold it all. U have some inside info?
Express-Way9295@reddit
I read in a business article at the time, that Southwest was out if room to grow under that business model. 737s weren't going to run HOU-ABI-DAL schedule. The 737 was too big. The 737 was to small and without a domestic first class or an international business class. No Clubs/lounges in the SWA system. And unfortunately, passengers learned to game the unassigned seating method. Although I strongly disagree with PE, I do agree that Southwest needed to change in order to grow.
Few-Arugula5839@reddit
Private Equity is the devil. Genuinely evil scumbags in every such company.
umyselfwe@reddit
Privatisation playbook: extract gains, dump losses on the public.
Phone. Rail. Water. Electricity. The pattern's identical across every sector.
Private owners milk dividends during profitable years, defer maintenance, rack up debt. Then when infrastructure crumbles, suddenly it's a "public crisis" that needs a bailout. Shareholders walk away. Taxpayers foot the clean up bill.
Spirit Airlines is the latest: stripped assets, cut corners, maximized extraction. Now it's bankrupt and we're left asking how a major carrier collapsed. Same reason utilities fail—you can't run critical infrastructure like a financial engineering exercise.
Privatise the profits. Socialise the losses. Works very time.
DisjointedHuntsville@reddit
Customer protection is almost non existent in America. The people actually doing the work are rarely the ones making the business decisions which makes NO SENSE at all to me in an industry like aviation which is highly demanding.
There need to be “quality of service” thresholds for an airline owner to meet before they’re allowed to expand slots into any major airport. There is otherwise no incentive for them to do anything other than cut everything and run a skeleton operation while plundering the assets of the business.
Master_Flower_5343@reddit
Private equity would’ve saved this business if it was worth saving. Airline industry is among the single worst businesses ever conceived. We shouldn’t lose sight of that
BruhNuhway@reddit
Lolol go fuck a .ppt slide you "dont lose sight of that" cuck
Antique-Kitchen-1896@reddit
You live in a capitalist country though. If someone offers money and the other party is willing to sell, what prevents it?
Sure you can add legislation but that also can result in other ills. Legislation sometimes can fossilize industries in place and make longer term pain.
Did the PE people actually made it out without losing part of their shirts in this instance? No idea but I am guess bankruptcy wasn’t the plan.
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swakid8@reddit
They didn’t make it out without losing their shirts from the fist ch.11 trip
messick@reddit
Since neither Southwest nor Spirt have PE ownership, I am going to have to chalk up this post to the usual Reddit ignorant “PE == Bad” horseshit.
Mike__O@reddit
PE (Apollo) got John Deitrich out of Atlas and they seem to be doing quite well
Beginning_Ad_6616@reddit
Add another PEnis story to the pile.
galloping_skeptic@reddit
Southwest is, sadly, heading down this road now too.
dave-rooney-ca@reddit
You had me at "It’s time to talk about Private Equity and the horrors they wrought" 😞
zaporozhets@reddit
Are you confusing private equity with activist hedge funds? Not saying either is good but they are very different types of businesses and investment models.
Imaginary_Ganache_29@reddit
PE should be illegal
swakid8@reddit
Or just say corporate raiders….
Disastrous-Trash1025@reddit
As an owner, PE is music to your ears, they pay nicely!
Bonus, they ruin the company long term (they’re too focused on returns to remember to actually do the business well) so once the non-compete has expired, you just build the same style company again.
The main victims are the general public.
Some will say the employees and customers but little secret here: you are responsible for your destiny, not your boss or a company you buy stuff from.
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