Engines with Start/Stop: How is it going?
Posted by Takssista@reddit | Autos | View on Reddit | 107 comments
Ever since start/stop systems started appearing in cars, I've always heard that they cause premature wear on the starter motor and battery, and that constantly turning the car off and on damages the engine.
My question is directed to those who have or have had cars with start/stop for several years (and who have never disabled this feature): How many mechanical problems have you had that you know or suspect wouldn't have occurred if you hadn't used start/stop?
cactusjakal@reddit
My mom's and dad's cars are both 10+ year old Mercedes with auto start-stop. I don't think it really causes that many problems. Starters aren't made of glass and they're only activated for a few short seconds each cycle.
I think the problem I see is that the oil pump doesn't circulate when the engine shuts off, and if your oil is cold or you live in a cold climate, it's not continuously lubricating in the warm-up phase of driving which is bad for the cylinder walls and especially valvetrain.
HighLadySuroth@reddit
I work at VW and our cars dont use stop start for a few minutes after a cold start. Not sure how other manufacturers handle it
Apprehensive-Yard-59@reddit
Is there any way to turn off that the engine in my 2018 Golf(after auto stop) starts automatically when the car in front of you starts moving? I hate this, because for some reason, 99% of other drivers cannot just be stationary when there is a red light. They start slowly moving closer to the car in front of them even if the light is still red! I have no idea why, but they always do it and make my engine start for no reason. Sure, I can disable the start/stop every time, but sometimes I actually want my engine to stop, but not be turned back on instantly beca there is some stressed idiot in front of me.
HighLadySuroth@reddit
The stop start shouldn't be reacting to the car in front of you. If you lift your foot off the brake even by a hair the engine will start, even if you dont fully lift off the pedal.
Apprehensive-Yard-59@reddit
Mine definitely reacts to the car in front. As soon as they start moving my engine starts even if pressing the brake hard constantly. I don’t want it to start, so I am definitely not releasing the brake. I assume it uses the same radar/sensor as the adaptive cruise control to determine when the car in front of me start moving.
HighLadySuroth@reddit
I guess so. Usually when I test drive customer cars I immediately turn it off. But the times where I have had it on, I have noticed them doing that. Im going to have to pay closer attention
ZannX@reddit
Typically start stop systems only activate after the oil is warmed up.
ctn91@reddit
Thats not true. I have a 2022 diesel ford transit van with a 2.0L diesel. Start stop activates no matter the engine temp. There are parameters to meet, but i will disable the system until the engine is warmed up. Though in warmer weather i notice it doesn’t always work either.
Hell, i can do a 160km/h autobahn pull for a few kilometers and then get off the highway and stop at a traffic light, engine turns off. No acknowledgement of a possible hot engine situation needing oil and coolant circulation. Whatever, company owned vehicle…
The_Mosephus@reddit
my 2018 f150 doesn't do the auto start stop until the car is warm. your shit is fucked up.
ctn91@reddit
It could be due to emissions regulations in Europe though.
memecatcher69@reddit
My Volvo in Europe doesn’t do start/stop until it’s warm
ctn91@reddit
Well thats cool, i’m just stating my experience with a shitty ford transit that i hate very much. Redditors keep trying to gaslight me like what i’m seeing isn’t true.
memecatcher69@reddit
You were the one that made the claim that it cannot be true for cars to auto start/stop only after the engine becomes warm enough.
A redditor told you their car behaved that way, and you said it must be due to EU regulation that your car does not function similarly.
Another redditor (me) told you that my car behaves that way in the EU, and then you say people are trying to gaslight you.
HighLadySuroth@reddit
Hot engine would not cause it to disable. Cold engine would.
Vehicle-Mountain@reddit
Then you just have a shitty car. Even a 2018 skoda fabia only does auto start stop when the engine is warm enough and when it’s warm enough outside
ctn91@reddit
“Then you just have a shitty car.”
Well, yes. Its a ford transit van. I have foot pain during the week due to traffic and throttle managing. Its the only vehicle ive ever driven that does this.
supernot@reddit
He said “typically”, not “always”.
EenyMeenyMinyBro@reddit
And if the battery has enough charge. And if the battery health is measured to be ok.
far_beyond_driven_@reddit
In theory, from what I have heard, the concerns were more about the rod bearings early on, and less about the starter itself. As you mentioned, the oil pump isn’t circulating when the engine is off, and that split second it takes to build pressure was theorized to be potentially problematic. I have no evidence to support that theory, but I do remember it being an early concern.
Staure@reddit
This has been shown to be a valid concern.
https://youtu.be/qu8cJ2t_ja8?si=yVUA6WGCbTkGtguh
TheGT1030MasterRace@reddit
I've owned a first generation Prius with over 250,000 mi on it, it doesn't have an electrically driven oil pump and it didn't seem to have any issues, despite probably having started and stopped more than 500,000 times.
far_beyond_driven_@reddit
I understand. I’m simply stating what the early concerns of a stop start system were from my understanding. They evidently weren’t warranted though.
Any_Sale2030@reddit
My stop start does not shut off until the engine is warm. I also rented cars and they were the same. They only shut off after it warms up.
Confident_Season1207@reddit
Stop start shouldn't be working unless the engtis warmed up.
WhetfartCheeseburger@reddit
I've got a 2015 polo bluegt with 78,000 miles, I've used start/stop the whole time and never had to replace a battery or starter.
BiggusDickkussss@reddit
Yeah I turn it off
StandupJetskier@reddit
beats me. I drive in a programmed mode with stop/start "off".
KenJyi30@reddit
12 year old porsche has it, it’s a ridiculous pain to use because it’s manual. luckily I don’t have to live with it, if i turn it off it stays off but I use it occasionally (railroad crossing etc). Long term it stopped working after 6 years when the battery started showing its age, works just fine now with fresh battery. Nothing else to report
WPI94@reddit
Similar exp, but PDK. 2011 Panamera 4S. Porsche uses the spark to start rather than using the starter.
LegallyIncorrect@reddit
My wife’s van is a 2018 with 100K miles and it’s been fine.
someexgoogler@reddit
I've never had a problem with it. 21 years on a Prius and 8 years on a BMW. This is more of a psychological problem than an engineering problem.
zingw@reddit
A hybrid is a completely different system. That is foolish to compare.
TheTrampIt@reddit
Well, the Prius is different.
It does not have a starter motor, but MG1 spins ICE instantly at 1200 rpm.
withoutapaddle@reddit
I mean, there are some cars where it's implemented poorly. I don't use it on my car because it shuts off at nonsensical times (since the car can't read my mind).
For example, every time I reach a destination, like my garage, work, store, gas station, etc, it shuts the engine off immediately when the car stops moving, then instantly starts it again when I shift into Park, then shuts it off again when I take the key out. Braindead programming.
mixer73@reddit
My Golf sensed brake pressure, you could gently brake and it wouldn't shut off, or if you brake more firmly, it shuts off immediately. Come to think my GLC also had this.
Dzessito@reddit
My Renault has it too, if you press lightly it won't trigger it. It can be sometimes hard to control but it works fairly well.
thegreatmattsby24@reddit
Love how my VW stays off when put in park. The Escape I had as a rental once did not and every time I restarted in park I thought about how that’s the worst implementation I’ve ever seen.
withoutapaddle@reddit
Yep. It's my Ford that does it stupid. My VW doesn't have it (I think it wasn't available on manual transmissions, at least at the time).
comoestasmiyamo@reddit
Prius doesn’t count.
Toyotas are too well made to feature in reliabilty questions. Priiii doubly so.
thegreatmattsby24@reddit
Prius doesn’t have a starter at all. It doesn’t work like normal start/stop. The small of the two electric motors starts the gas engine as one of its duties.
fryfrog@reddit
I have a BMW X7 that is a few years old w/ a "mild hybrid" system and it is the best start/stop system I've used, it is higher voltage and uses a motor/generator that is a different part from the standard starter. You can barely feel it re-start the engine as you lift the brake. It's so good, I haven't even tried to figure out how to disable it.
This is in total opposition to all other start/stop systems I've used, those I'm looking for how to disable it after the first time it happens.
terroristteddy@reddit
This is how start/stop should be. Traditional starter motor/flywheel setups will never achieve the driveability and longevity of a proper mild hybrid setup
fryfrog@reddit
The downside in the BMW setup is that the AC compressor doesn't run when the engine is off. I've read that Mercedes has a similar system, but the motor/generator is on the serpentine belt so it can keep it running!
PSYKO_Inc@reddit
Toyota solved that problem in the Prius by just making the AC compressor electric.
Justin_inc@reddit
I'm someone who turns this off everytime I get in the car. Here is why; I was going through a Cook-Out drive through, pulled up to get my food, car shut off, and then click click click. Battery was dead. It was so awkward. The employees came out and helped push my car out of the drive through lane. Never again.
ConsumeYourBleach@reddit
I turned mine off as soon as I got the car.
Natedoggsk8@reddit
They give them starters that last many more uses
force_disturbance@reddit
Wife has driven a Volvo XC90 for 9 years with auto start stop. Still going strong. (Both car and wife :-))
It wouldn't work well with a classic old car, but the car has an extra battery for the starter, and a starter made for the extra cycles. This is what engineering is: build the right quality for the job!
tman2damax11@reddit
Not myself but a relative. They bought a 2019 Chevy Traverse new. It has forced stop-stop, no way to disable it. They do most of their driving stop-and-go locally, so auto stop/start is triggering all the time for them. They have just under 90k miles and haven't had a single mechanical issue.
Genos-Cyborg@reddit
Same Chevy but 2020. No problems at all. At first I thought I would hate the start stop thing but it didn’t bother me at all. Also great for the long red lights that the car isn’t idling
Crash3636@reddit
The ignorance surrounding stop/start is incredible. The manufacturers did a terrible job of educating the public on it.
Most systems don’t activate until the engine is warmed up.
Most systems stop the engine with cylinder 1 on the compression stroke. Once it’s ready to fire up, it just lights the spark plug and the engine rotates. Never uses the starter as part of the stop/start procedure.
The systems that use the starter have a beefed up starter to deal with the increased number of expected start cycles.
The people who complain about the engine shutting off and not being ready when the light turns green don’t realize that if they lift their foot off the brake 10%, the engine will fire right up and be ready!
Only LEGIT complaint is during the summer when the air conditioning loses its cool during an extended stop. Again, just lift your foot off the brake a little and the engine and AC will fire right back up.
7eregrine@reddit
Quality post here.
Batavijf@reddit
That's why Toyota chose an electric AC. System on means there's AC available. And one of the electric motors is used to spin up the engine before it starts. The Toyota system is pretty nifty with the planetary wheels and such.
Candid-Bike-9165@reddit
Ive always said the same in fact I didn't even realise my van was doing it when I first started driving it (I had the radio up) it was so fast to respond theyre good systems and much prefer stop start than having the engine running in city traffic
However we also have an a vw pickup at work and its start stop is awful lifting off the brake does nothing then when you press the throttle it still takes a few seconds to start
Apprehensive-Mix-563@reddit
Got a 16 years old bmw with 360000 km on it. Works fine.
Doesn't auto stop when cold, when heating up or cooling cabin.
TrackTeddy@reddit
Starters and batteries are updated to deal with the extra duty of stop start. The stop start only activates when the engine is hot and so extra wear on the engine is negligible.
Zaphoidx@reddit
If any of what you said was true, the technology would've died out long ago.
For starters (ha), they use a different starter motor compared to the main so it doesn't receive any additional wear
DisturbedRanga@reddit
My 2015 Ford Ranger is still going good at 250000km. 11 years old and I only just replaced the original battery. Aside from general services, all I've had to do is clean out the EGR valve due to it seizing up.
Auto stop/start works normally unless the AC is on max.
Being a diesel and a manual probably helps the longevity.
Hedgesmog@reddit
So when auto manufacturers started planning auto start/stop functions, the engineers had to spec starters and other components for an increased life cycle (i.e. run more times, more often) than previous starters. Same goes for other components. It would be irrational to introduce a feature like this without coordinating the impact on other systems.
Imagine deciding a car can travel above 80mph for the first time, and not doing sufficient testing to make sure the wheel bearings can withstand those speeds, and the brakes can stop the car from 80mph without falling apart. It's that kind of design decision. You either do it, or you create a market problem for your brand. So it's cheaper to solve the problems.
youridv1@reddit
No real problems.
The_Duke2331@reddit
As a Mercedes Specialist. We have seen that timing chains start to rattle earlier. (same goes if the car is only used as a grocery getter).
Most cars reach about 200-300k when driven long distances before the chain needs replacement. With short stints (so a lot of start stop action) this goes down to 150-250k ish.
But mercedes is pretty ''early'' to disable start stop whenever the battery gets below 75/80% capacity after a few years.
The more damaging '' start stop '' is with hybrids. But this is because scooting around town doesnt turn on the engine. And when going on the highway suddenly the engine has to wake from cold and start screaming at 3/4k rpm.
Yeah this leads to bearing failures as low as 100k km by lack of lubrication...
Unusual-Form-77@reddit
Engineers recognized a difference in the duty cycle and implemented necessary changes to ensure components would not fail any sooner than before. I wouldn’t be surprised if starters last even longer now.
Fasciadepedra@reddit
Usually the problem is not damage to the engine. First the batteries are more expensive but last years less. Most people never needed to change the starter motor, with s&s you are 2 or 3 times more likely to need it.
Matchonatcho@reddit
I think we are past all that, manufacturers wouldn't be able to handle the warranty work if that were true. On our second Bronco Sport, it works great.
Candid-Bike-9165@reddit
Engines are designed with start stop in mind manufactures are not stupid
Starters are uprated and these cars hold their oil pressure there will be a bunch more changes too
In other words people saying the tech is rubbish and will ruin your engine havnt got a clue what theyre on about
GalagoNapoleon@reddit
2011 VW Polo V: I had to change the battery recently and had to get a more expensive model because of the Start/stop. Also it basically never activates anymore so it's as if I didn't have it now
CRCampbell11@reddit
I turn it off
rhb4n8@reddit
Start stop is honestly a big improvement and fewer starter failures. The tech forced the automakers to use better starters and I've never really heard of someone with a newer car needing a starter whereas before 2000 it was something everyone changed regularly.
It's nicer with a hybrid to smooth out the initial torque though IMHO
JackORobber@reddit
Car's with the start and stop feature are designed to live with that feature being used, it's usually only an issue in other cars where that was not an intended feature or use.
az9393@reddit
BMW X6M I bought new in 2019. 4 litre 600hp engine always used start stop. 120k km in I’ve had absolutely no issues with the car, it works like brand new.
mixer73@reddit
You think those parts were not uprated to compensate?
There's an argument to say it asks more of the battery but if your battery gets low it's automatically disabled.
Have had multiple cars with it and zero issues.
Gunorgunorg@reddit
The starters in cars with start/stop are not the same kind in a car without it. They are made different to handle the different use. The bulk of start/stop misinformation comes from people assuming they have the same exact starter as cars without it, and refusing to acknowledge the facts when laid out in front of them because it ends their argument
Dramatic-Season-2959@reddit
It’s all BS. There’s no widespread starter failures and the car only engages start stop when it is fully up to temp.
iamtehstig@reddit
100k miles on my car with start stop, primarily light -to-light city driving.
Only "problem" I've noticed is the battery replacement was expensive since it needed to be larger.
TheNewJasonBourne@reddit
My last 2 cats have had it and I hate it. In my Audi I installed a device that always turned it off as soon as I started the engine. In my current car, I’ve gotten in to the habit of turning it off every time.
I hate it so much.
Anachronism--@reddit
Only two years with my jeep that has auto stop/ start and no issues at 5 years 60k miles.
At long lights the lack of heat is a little noticeable but with heated seats it doesn’t bother me at all. Otherwise if you couldn’t hear it the vast majority of people wouldn’t even know it was there.
surenopemaybe@reddit
I click the button to shut it off every time I start it, it’s just muscle memory at this point, I don’t even have to think about it.
Thud@reddit
We rented a Volvo a couple weeks ago. They no longer have any buttons or menu options to disable it. I hope other manufacturers don’t follow that trend.
Ran4@reddit
I mean nearly all volvos are phev or ev so no start stop
CletusDSpuckler@reddit
Given the literally billions of gallons of fuel wasted annually by idling vehicles, it would be swell if this became standard everywhere.
Syscrush@reddit
You do know that cars with Start/Stop are designed by professional engineers to work correctly, right? They don't just use the same kind of starter, battery, charging system, etc.
Some systems like Mazda's don't even use the starter.
Robots_Never_Die@reddit
Not all of them use the starter to restart the car.
762_54r@reddit
I havent replaced a starter on a car since I got rid of my 1994 lumina
slayer1991@reddit
Starters and batteries are oversized to account for it, and hybrids usually use the Electric motor. That said, statistically relevant points: - starters failing at about 250k earlier than the usual 350k km - batteries are more stressed and lower quality, end up being replaced earlier at 3-5years vs 10years - most wear on engines happens on startups, but there's Priuses out there with 500k km on original engine, so can ignore for appliances but would disable for high performance vehicles
metamodern-mess@reddit
My work transit connect has start stop. I’ve been actively trying to blow it up for the last 60,000 miles and it won’t die. It’s slow and runs like shit but it always gets there. 150,000 on the clock at the moment. I drive it like the gas pedal is an on/off switch.
wrongwayup@reddit
Same issue that hybrids have. Which is to say, they don't.
Church_of_Realism@reddit
Disabled it on my 2022 Ford Bronco.
smurfey002@reddit
Engineer in the automotive world here. Back when start stop first same put and it was an option, the starters were much beefier for those cars. During testing of new cars, the starter is put through testing just like any other component. It isnt like wr just added the programming and didnt touch the starter itself. Long story short, auto stop start starters are built for it.
Plenty-Industries@reddit
I've owned a few cars with this since 2016.
Not a single one has had an issue.
The mechanical problems from it, are usually on older cars with a very poor design.
Early on, this was a huge concern because starters would have be replaced more often and would be more expensive because they have to be designed differently - this ended up being a complete non-issue and nothing inherently special has to be done with the starter itself.
CoffeeDetail@reddit
Mine hardly cuts off. If the AC is running it doesn’t shut off when stopped. 25’qx80.
drunkenmagnum24@reddit
Never had a single issue. All my BMWs had it and my Silverado does too and it just touched 113k miles.
ivegotmrcracker@reddit
I have a 2018 a6 with the 3.0 engine. Just at 175k on the car and rarely have ever disabled start/stop. Not had an issue with it.
jvd0928@reddit
20/4 Acura. Works well. But I stopped using it for the reasons you stated. I also add a little STP to my oil.
vipercrazy@reddit
The correct battery for these vehicles is a agm or enhanced flooded, I commonly see people either unknowingly or on purpose cheap out and use a cheaper battery causing it to fail much sooner. People that drive low miles also have issues. No issues with starters or engines, but these cars are still not very old.
ApprehensiveAd6603@reddit
They're all fine. People are just terrified of anything new.
fangelo2@reddit
11 year old Jeep Cherokee . On only my second battery. No problems with starter
fubes2000@reddit
I know some people that moved cars between dealerships for Toyota, and the service guys reportedly had a "big pile of dead starters" and told them to always disable the auto stop/start.
Lazy-Explanation7165@reddit
Start/stop only activates when your battery is in an optimal range. If the batteries are low it won’t engage. It’s not dead “starters” it’s dead batteries from sitting in storage. Source: I was GSM at many car dealerships.
TheGT1030MasterRace@reddit
I had a 2003 Prius with something like 287k miles (no electric oil pump, no electric coolant pump except a very small one for the heater, no electric air conditioning compressor.)
The engine still ran great, I had to get rid of it due to problems unrelated to the engine. I now have a 2002 with the factory navigation package, 92K on it and it also runs perfectly.
Comfortable_City1892@reddit
Soon it won’t be in as many vehicles. The EPA has removed the incentive for installing them, which is what forced the implementation to begin with.
Afkargh@reddit
The Car Care Nut on YouTube has a perfect video explaining how auto stop/start works https://youtu.be/TTBN8Ic57Gg
lpg975@reddit
We have a 2022 Compass with start/stop. Anymore, both me and my wife turn it off every time we start the car. We let the start/stop do its thing for about the first year of ownership. Then we got sick of it and decided the almost non-existent bump in mpg wasn't worth losing heat/ac at a stoplight and dealing with the herky-jerkyness of the system. Start/stop is kind of annoying, tbh. I don't HATE it, but I'd prefer to just turn it off or not have it at all (I also prefer manuals transmissions, which don't have start/stop to begin with). My other car is a 2016 Camaro 6MT. Much more fun and engaging to drive than the Compass, but the Compass makes a good little family car for road trips with our two year old. And before anyone rags on the Compass, ours has been fantastic and super reliable. I just changed the "lifetime" transmission, diffrential, and transfer case fluids at 50k miles. Lifetime fluids are a joke. What lifetime? The lifetime of the vehicle that is now significantly shorter because you never changed any if the fluids? Lmao. Ridiculous. Change your fluids! It's not even that hard to do!
Quaiche@reddit
Got a 7 years old Audi with it and I’ve never deactivated it because can’t be arsed and it doesn’t get on as long the oil isn’t hot so I don’t think it’s a huge problem whatsoever.
One of my relative has another Audi but that’s now 11 years old with the start stop and same situation: no problem at all.
We both live in the largest city of the country so we do a lot of start stop traffic.
In general what’s from VAG are cars that won’t fail on you as long you do the scheduled maintenance on time.
BlackCatFurry@reddit
Seat arona 2019. (So vw group and parts)
No issues whatsoever. Just replaced the original battery (6.5yo) this winter.
I will say though, the start-stop only activates when the engine is warm enough, it doesn't do it on a cold engine.
The battery replacement was also a routine operation, the finnish climate is really harsh on batteries so i wouldn't expect any longer of a lifespan out of one.
polafloid@reddit
2014 Volvo and have absolutely no issues
batmanshsu@reddit
I have a 2019 Chevy Malibu,80k miles, and do most of my driving in the city. I hate the feature and wish I could disable it. That being said, the mechanical problems are thus: I had to replace the battery at around 50k miles or 5 years, fine. New battery crapped out in a year, but I think the shop just had a dud. 3 battery is going strong so far. My problem is that as the car has gotten older, the auto start will occasionally make the car stall out, especially if I’m at a long red light or in a lot of traffic. I feel like the system was meant for commuters who will hit that auto start a few times a trip, not someone who hits 20-30 red lights per commute.
L44KSO@reddit
Had it on a 2015 Audi A3, no issues.