Would you support indenpendent Sandzhak?
Posted by zanimljivo123@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 182 comments
Posted by zanimljivo123@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 182 comments
NevrijemeSamJa@reddit
No, I don't support because there is no justification for independence. On what should this independence be based to? Ottoman-Turkish annexation escapades? Truly great foundation lol. It didn't exsist before Ottoman-Turkish coming and should stay non-exsisting.
Besides that, Bosniaks aren't even the majority in all parts that of this region. At least 4 municipalities have a non-Bosniac majority. Impossible to deal with. Altough it would be great for the Bosniacs to experience what it is when a minority of about 11% wants to dictate the majority.
It would also be landlocked without any respectable airport, support infrastructure and locked from Montenegro, Serbia en Republic of Srpska as well. Kosovo would probably deal with it, altough Albanians have a minority in a few municipalities too, so that would be no happy marriage either, rather a blackmailing relationship.
Probably it also would unite somehow Montenegrins and Serbs. Also Europe would not like to found a muslim state in Europe. Let's be honest; that's the reason why Bosnia is forced as it is.
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
Yes
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why?
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
Cuz the people are not the same as the ones who rule Serbia and Montenegro. Sandzak has remained one of Balkans poorest areas because Belgrade didn’t want to invest anything there. They are safer independent.
i_getitin@reddit
I’m sure you crunched the numbers to make such a bold claim that they would be better independent.
edwardkenw4y@reddit
He's right about the government not really investing in the region, which is why a lot of people are leaving every single year in search for better opportunities. I know, because I live there, and a lot of people in my family are living and working abroad in Western Europe.
i_getitin@reddit
Very odd considering Serbia is swimming in cash
/s
edwardkenw4y@reddit
I know you're being sarcastic, but someone would certainly have that impression if they've only been to Belgrade or Novi Sad.
i_getitin@reddit
Even developed nations have poorer/underfunded cities and regions. With that said, considering levels of corruption it should be no surprise Serbia will have underdeveloped regions
Ujemegaz@reddit
Corruption is one thing, treating minorities like shit is another.
i_getitin@reddit
Treating minorities like shit is not exclusive to the Serbian government throughout the Balkans as much as you’d line to make Serbia look like the odd one out
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Understandable, you think you would be better on your own. You think you have a shot at indenpendence or no?
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
Everything is better than being part of Serbia. But Sandzak is too small to fight alone, it would end up horrific for the Muslim population like in the 90s. Help from greater powers are needed in that case.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Come on, "wars" nowadays are won at the negotiation table, not in a trench.
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
Are you sure you live in 2026? Lol
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
This is europe, not middle east
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
I you should be aware that there’s a war going on in Ukraine, also why even ask questions if you get triggered
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Having russia as your neighbour is another story
PersimmonTall8157@reddit
There’s no difference
Confident_Escape_715@reddit
Why what?
Jack55555@reddit
Why why what?
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why does he support it
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
Nope, if they don’t feel welcomed or their rights oppressed they are free to migrate where they want.
Hopet28@reddit
There is no such thing as Sandžak. The real name is Raška(Rashka). Ottomans started calling it Sandžak after they conquered Serbia.
edwardkenw4y@reddit
Even the Chetniks used the term "Sandžak" in their documents during WW2. Also the Yugoslav partisans as well.
It's just a colloquial term for the region. Why are Serbs so pressed about it?
Aristo95@reddit
For the same reason Albanians are pressed about "Metohija", Croats are pressed about "Krajina" or Bosniaks are pressed about "Republika Srpska". Btw I dont really care, just giving some context
Ujemegaz@reddit
Metohija was unheard before. Only Milosevic mentioned it.
Aristo95@reddit
It was an official name of AP Kosovo & Metohija 1945-1968 when it was changed. Milosevic reintroduced the term. The term "Metohija" was present in various Serbian sources to denote that area even also before WW2, although it was not official term.
Ujemegaz@reddit
If it was named so in 1945, it doesn't sound made up at wall. Around same years we named a town after Stalin.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
I know but sandzak is more widely known name for this region
Snoo-15899@reddit
Sure. Right after Palestine and Kurdistan.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
What do you mean?
Snoo-15899@reddit
Either there is the right of self determination or there is respect of borders by international law. Pick one. How come some get to secede, some don’t? These two have been standing in the queue for a while, Kurds for instance numbering tens of millions of people. Palestinians are undergoing genocide as we speak. But no, it is arbitrary and if your cause is aligned with great power like U.S. you are freedom fighter. If not, you are a terrorist. Unlike U.S. ( or Russia, just opposite), I support all of them, in order of appearance. It is called principle.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Blah blah blah, whatever
Snoo-15899@reddit
What an unproductive use of your mom’s internet.
Ujemegaz@reddit
😂
Ujemegaz@reddit
Whataboutism.
RedditAnonDude@reddit
Sure you can have it as long as the official name is Republic of Toilet. Still want it?
Aristo95@reddit
Dude, I swear 300 years from now every village in the Balkans will want its own state.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
It will all become part of the greater Romanian empire.
Severe-Conclusion229@reddit
ever heard of independent Vevčani?
Awkward_Alfalfa_8009@reddit
Is Vevcani a vlach village?
Severe-Conclusion229@reddit
no it's almost entirely Macedonian according to the 2002 census.
Savings-Oil5196@reddit
they already have their own passports
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
And in the EU.
HRE 2.0, here we come...
Aristo95@reddit
Most of the population would better fit HRE 1.0, but luckily Europeans still don't know us that well, so maybe they make a grave mistake and accept us one day
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
So what? It's the natural order. Thousand years ago europe was much more divided than today, and that's how it should be. As i said, it's much more natural
Aristo95@reddit
It's not a natural order, but ego trip. Something everyone in the Balkans suffer from. Showing others you are more important or successful than you actually are.
Ok_Suggestion_6640@reddit
Yeah I mean it's so dumb
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
No
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Reason?
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
They don’t need one
VascoDaSigma@reddit
In short: Republic of Srpska would immediately start referendum for independence, Herceg-Bosna would follow it in a second, and minute later, Balkans would end up in such war that will make the 90s one seem like child play. Besides, taking a part of NATO country that is about to become a member wouldn’t be… well the same as taking the Kosovo. Basically, you want soon to be EU territory, and Bruxelles won’t be approving that.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Republic of Srpska would immediately start referendum for independence
That's exactly what i am aiming for. It would give us right for indenpendence. Don't worry about a war, for it you need stable and powerful economy, brainwashed population and tons of weapons, military venichles and ammunition, and no country in the western balkans shares any of these characteristics
DartVejder@reddit
No, it wouldn't help us in any way.
What potentially would help us is a peace deal in Ukraine War that, among other things, sees occupied Ukrainian territories being legally ceded and becoming part of Russia.
Even if it's just Crimea, it would change everything for us.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Explain how. Also, i do think indenpendence of sandzak would help us. If they, without even autonomy could be indenpendent, why couldn't we, who already have administration over half of the country!
DartVejder@reddit
Republika Srpska has legal recognition as a self-governing federal entity and almost all all present-day countries, prior to their independence, were also exactly that.
We've already been recognized by our previous base country BiH, through Dayton Agreement, however international community, while recognizing us to the same degree, did not approve of our complete independence because of the war and potential precedents it might cause that might invalidate international law and territorial integrity.
If previously mentioned Ukraine war peace deal was to happen, it would remove all potential concerns regarding our independence, as that deal itself would be used as said precedent, meaning international community would no longer have a problem with our independence.
Sandzak independence or similar does not help us in any way as these are just regions within their respective states and they do not exist in legal terms at all. They are not entities, or autonomous states, or anything of the sorts, and any potential attempt and breaking away from their respective countries would not be recognized as legal by said base countries, meaning it would cause a crisis or a war and it would most likely fail.
That sort of thing wouldn't help us in any way.
DartVejder@reddit
Herzeg-Bosnia, just like Sandzak, doesn't exist as a federal entity, and cannot be compared to Republika Srpska.
Republika Srpska can, in theory, conduct a legal referendum at any time. How that referendum would go and what would happen next is another matter, but point is, RS as an entity has legal capacity for at very least, a referendum.
Herzeg Bosnia and Sandzak don't. Both of these are just loosely defined regions within their own respective states. They'd need to be something in legal terms, meaning some kind of entity or autonomous self-governing reagon, to even begin talking about independence.
TheReal_Elite@reddit
Honestly no.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why?
TheReal_Elite@reddit
Regional stability is more important.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
So you think this would cause instability?
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Maybe it won't if Srpska gained independence and Association of Serbian municipalities gets created in Kosovo.
Early-Show2886@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLXmhmCZkdo
Senad Nikocevic Niki - Selam Alejk Moj Sandzaku ( Officiall Video )
spezigotten@reddit
Do we really need any more countries in this region?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes, we do.
Didudidudadu737@reddit
Let’s give half of Kosovo independence
Ujemegaz@reddit
I think it is Vojvodina's turn now.
Didudidudadu737@reddit
Let’s slice up Albania and Kosovo first
Ujemegaz@reddit
They already are.
Didudidudadu737@reddit
Then let’s dice’em
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
I agree
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why stop now? It wouldn't for all thsoe who were left behind
i_getitin@reddit
Then where do you stop? Only if the separation favours the West ?
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
You stop when everyone's wishes for indenpendence are fullfilled
MakiENDzou@reddit
From this day onwards, my home is an independent state!
fatgirlcuddler@reddit
The people are always wrong...
fatgirlcuddler@reddit
World's first 2000th world country
Catman_192@reddit
I feel like this is the bait post and the porpouse is to start another balkan war in the comments.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why would i bait? I asked a legitimate question
Catman_192@reddit
You just posted controversial question about "Would you support indenpendence of some region?". Of course some people will say yes and some will say no. Seperatism is already controversial, especially in Balkans that was full of nationalistic and separetistic movements since 19th century. You most likely know that and the goal is to see balkaners once again arguing of some pointless topic. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like that.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
We're here to discuss. By your logic, any controversiak question to which answers will vary should not be asked
Catman_192@reddit
And why should we bring controversial topics (like nationalism, seperatism) on this sub? This sub should be questioning balkaners about travel advice, every day life, history, culture, sometimes politics, etc... We all know how Balkan is diversed and that some groups have complicated history and when someone brings up topic like that, discussion can become easily heated. This isn't the first time I see a post like that. Now if something was happening in Novi Pazar or Sandzak, I would maybe understand, but right now nothing dramatic is happening there and the region is relatively peacefull, as far as I'm aware. There are people who like to post bait posts to start a new balkan war in the comments and this post looked like one of these.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
So what? Why are you concerned about that i wonder? If you're offended then leave
Catman_192@reddit
I'm not even offended, I'm just tired of bait posts, this is what I originally wrote, and what did you expect from people to answer you? Let's say if someone asked "Would you support independent Republic of Srpska" and then people will mostly sa no or something like that and then that person would go and answer to them why? we should have more countries in Balkans, or maybe they want their own country, are there more Bosniaks than Serbs? that rule doesn't apply in the balkans, we had much more countries 1000 years ago, it's natural etc... See I would saw that as a bait and I would also comment to that person, how I feel like this is a bait and the porpouse is to start a another balkan war.
MakiENDzou@reddit
Not even people living there support it
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Sure?
MakiENDzou@reddit
Do you have any polls suggesting otherwise?
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Same question for you?
Disturb3dSilence@reddit
I know you are a dumb troll but let's bite, you really think people from Bijelo Polje, Pljevlja, Berane, Andrijevica where Serbs and Montenegrins are majority would simply just agree to live in this clusterfuck creation?
deviendrais@reddit
Ujemegaz@reddit
Funny. Considering the islamophobic sentiment Serbians display online.
deviendrais@reddit
Some of ya’ll really get more mad when we’re getting along than when we’re committing another Gcide. Weird!
>online
I know it’s difficult for some people to understand because they have no life outside the internet, but the internet is not real life. A couple of loud Albanian nationalists online think that the Muslim population of Sandžak is actually albanian and dream of incorporating it into greater Albania. It won’t happen anytime soon just like how Kosovo and Bosnia won’t be part of greater Serbia.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Albanian "nationalists" don't want Sanxhak as part of so called Greater Albania. In our "nationalist" narrative, only Hot, Grude, Plava and Gucia are considered Albanian, but now are part of Montenegro, and afaic, Montengro tried to stay away from conflict in the 1999, so there is no ill feelings and it is not worth to ruin the harmony over some events in 1878. Even in 1941 when Yugoslavia was invaded by axis powers, we were not ceded Sanxhak. There is no other dream but uniting with Kosovo. Our nationalism has always been a defensive one. We mobilize once we feel threatened.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
That's silly. We like goranci
Ujemegaz@reddit
Didn't there are good muslims and bad muslims 🤣
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
That's just 2 muslim women, out of thousands. Besides, who knows their real ideology
deviendrais@reddit
Their real ideology is that they want a better future for Serbia. Novi Pazar was, after Belgrade, the centre of the student protests last year and the muslim students have shown us that they care more about Serbia’s future than many of her proud Orthodox citizens.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Or maybe they just live lives worse than the other parts of serbia hence why they're fiercer in this political battle
deviendrais@reddit
Cry me a river while my Sandžak queens and I go eat some halal ćevapi 💅
Ujemegaz@reddit
Funny how everyone is so sure what others think.
HeightCalm760@reddit
The day when Montenegrin Bosniaks chose to support Montenegro’s independence and in doing so permanently divide Sandžak marked the definitive end of any idea of Sandžak as a relevant concept. As a Serb from the Montenegrin part of Sandžak, I can assure you that neither Serbs nor Montenegrins want it, and there are not enough Bosniaks to advocate for it, nor do they have any real political objective beyond securing jobs in the public sector.
Ujemegaz@reddit
The appetite might change.
MakiENDzou@reddit
And Kosovo might one day fight an independence war from Albania, who knows.
Ujemegaz@reddit
More chances are that Albania would fight an indipendence war against Kosovo.
rawrr9@reddit
Why would Sandžak seek independence? The people in Sandžak have the same rights as those in the rest of Serbia. Their human rights and religious freedoms are guaranteed. On the other hand, creating yet another Muslim state in this region would seriously destabilize the entire region once again.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Maybe because they want their own country, not to be a part of other ethnicitie's country
Didudidudadu737@reddit
They’re the same ethnicity, didn’t you learn at school that religion and ethnicity are not the same?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes, they are rhe same in Yugoslav context.
Didudidudadu737@reddit
So Muslim Albanian and Muslim Bosnians are the same ethnicity?
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
School never thought you that different religion in the balkans translates to the creation of a different ethnicity, no?
Minimum_Safety_4167@reddit
What other ethnicity? As far as I know the only thing separating them from the rest of the country is their religion.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Religion is more than enough.
Minimum_Safety_4167@reddit
Does that mean we get 3 Albanian countries in the future? Muslim, catholic and orthodox?
Ujemegaz@reddit
It will backfire into muslim and orthodox Slavs rediscovering theor true roots.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
That rule doesn't apply in the balkans
rawrr9@reddit
Pusi kurac trovacu.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
What's the matter?
SrboBleya@reddit
Lots of Serbs in Serbian sandžak. I don't think they want to secede.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
More than muslims?
i_getitin@reddit
The fact that so many Muslims live there is a testament that Serbs are tolerant as long as you’re not actively trying to topple the state
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Or maybe they're afraid to start something after 1999?
i_getitin@reddit
As they should be. Treasonous groups should fear the state
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
I meant the serbs
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes. I would rather fear the B-52s, though.
Ujemegaz@reddit
They should be grateful that Serbian state did not kill them like those in Bosnia and Kosovo, that is what you mean 🤔
i_getitin@reddit
Treason is a serious crime
Ujemegaz@reddit
They are muslims.
i_getitin@reddit
Irrelevant. They can go move to Bosnia or Afghanistan if living in an independent Muslim state is their wish
Ujemegaz@reddit
Irrelevant? How so? A muslim has no alliegence to anyone but God. Serbia what is irrelevant to them.
SrboBleya@reddit
It's a mixed population when we look at the whole area, not just one city or two, so even following your specific logic, I don't think it makes sense, because Serbs would not want it. Muslims also do not think about seceding.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
I am not sure about muslims not wanting the indenpendence...
SrboBleya@reddit
They are not Kosovo Albanians, bro.
They have local government and are participants in Serbian politics. They don't see an issue in being part of Serbia.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Liar
edwardkenw4y@reddit
He's not wrong. Seccessionist movements are not really popular here.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Albanians in Kosovo joined the partisans in ww2 as well. You still think that doesn't really happen in populations with seccessionist tendecies ?
SrboBleya@reddit
Which political party that represents the Muslim religious majority in Sandzak is advocating for independence currently?
Most have been in Serbian government actually, commonly being part of Serbian ministries.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
SDAS? I guess?
SrboBleya@reddit
I understand they are not advocating for independence currently.
But 30 years ago, during the break-up of Yugoslavia, they may have said some things.
Kooky_Appeal_6554@reddit
for what? for the sandzaklije muslimani?
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Yes
casastorta@reddit
Based on what?
Feel free to educate me, but as far as I know (and I've been wrong before), there is no "Sanzaklijski" national identity nor serious and popular push to form one. Unlike 8 federal entities with well defined right within the international law for self-determination (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Vojvodina, Kosovo, Macedonia and Serbia) it also lacks historical continuity beyond being one of the administrative regions of Ottoman empire.
Sounds a lot like nothinburger to me, at least for the moment.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Everyone has to start from something i suppose
casastorta@reddit
That's not questionable, but we are talking about "at the moment" I presume.
Ujemegaz@reddit
The moment might be once everhone becomes part of EU, and Serbia lags behind, or is the factor that drags muslim countries like Bosnia and Kosovo away from EU.
DartVejder@reddit
To become an independent state, first you've got to be able to militarily defeat your current base country and any potential allies that they might have, and international community must approve of your independence and sovereignty.
Sandzak doesn't have that. They don't even have any special autonomy status within their own countries. It's just loosely-defined territory of Serbia and Montenegro.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
No, you just need strong allies from the west
EuroLegend23@reddit
No
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Why?
ichbinverruckt@reddit
You have to first answer why to such an idiotic proposal!
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
It's not idiotic at all
EuroLegend23@reddit
There is no reason to further split any of our countries. They are fine as they are today.
psy988@reddit
Let's split up Croatia first into 2-3 small states ...
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Not gonna happen buddy
Salt_Young_4494@reddit
If we end up in eu, absolutely
Big-Waltz5204@reddit
Why would it be independant? First time hearing that. I heard about giving it to Bosnia before but never about it being independant. I don't think any unique ethnicity lives there, from what I know it's mixed with a lot of Muslims but not sure who they relate to more.
Odd-Albatros@reddit
Actually yes. All monasteries and cultural heritagemust be protected bzy international laws and force. Also rightfully registered to Serbian culture.
And then full independent state, why not.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Is there any corner in Balkans that doesn't have monasteries?
Odd-Albatros@reddit
No😁
Ujemegaz@reddit
What about curches bigger than a garage 🤣
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Interesting take
Odd-Albatros@reddit
Balkan states can't be functional in any other shape (reasons for that is beyond this theme). So yeah, full independence.
Also corruption and criminality procents will dropp. And there woould be no more diplomatic issues.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
I agree with your first paragraph completely. It's important for everyone to stick within their close circle
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Reason?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Serbia anathemated muslims when became a Kingdom in 19th century especially Albanians and even catholics, who happened to be Albanian as well. But Slavs were not spared, especially later on. Now that Serbian nationalism has solidified, especially after the break up of Yugoslavia, there is no logical reason that muslims should share a country with Serbs who are the Don Quixottesque knights of christianity, the orthodox one, nof catholic. It will become shitty, but they will have to go through such process sooner or later.
MLukaCro@reddit
World's first 4th world country.
freakybird99@reddit
Dont be so optimistic
Prigorec-Medjimurec@reddit
That title is already held by Albania:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMXUATMY-E
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Don't be so pessimistic
Confident_Escape_715@reddit
5th?
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit
No.
Ok_Suggestion_6640@reddit
No absolutely not
fatgirlcuddler@reddit
World's first 200th world country
crivycouriac@reddit
No
Royal_Association750@reddit
Greater Kosovo ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Care to explain?
Royal_Association750@reddit
It’s a joke :/
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Ahhh alright
FuckTheCake@reddit
Why not. More countries. It’s the peninsula the term Balkanisation comes from after all
FrothyEspresso@reddit
No.
zanimljivo123@reddit (OP)
Understandable considering your flair