The ones where they have to run very lean (which increases heat) and the ones that say vaporized oil and exhaust gasses need to be sent back through the air intake to start with.
Cars aren’t engineered to last anymore they’re engineered to help the fleet meet CAFE standards and not blow up during the warranty period.
I just got back from a work trip where I drove close to 3000km. I used 2 highway chargers the entire trip and the rest of the time was able to charge with a cable where I was staying. I paid $60 AUD for the entire trip. The guys with me in petrol cars had to fill up 3 or 4 times.
We pay $.14/kwh off peak (or nothing with our rooftop solar) but I’m trying to figure out how you’re getting 83 miles per dollar. You’re either getting like 10mi/kw or living in Bhutan and paying like $.03/kwh cuz the math ain’t mathing to me otherwise
Know what you mean. Always a struggle to justify driving the M4 instead of the i4 when gas is $6.50 to $7 a gallon for premium. Have to count in smiles per mile instead.
My last fill up was $4.39/gallon which is slightly on the high side but definitely not an outlier.
This is Connecticut we’re talking about so high taxes are a big factor. I’m being a bit reductive but those taxes, NIMBYism and a lack of foresight have all contributed to our high utility costs. The utilities suck but rate hikes have to be approved by the state for whatever that’s worth. And of course, party politics are also an issue.
I also pay 40 cents per kwh but it's still cheaper than gas. Also extremely low maintenance. 128k miles and still on the original brakes, for example! I get around 4mi/kwh, more when its warmer, less when its below 50°F out.
That's approximately the all-in rate for Washington state. I'm like $0.15/kwh + $8 monthly.
It's also the state that battles CA for most expensive gas. So EVs are a fantastic proposition here outside of annoyingly high registration fees for them.
That's all in for us, we've owned at least 1 if not 2 EV's for a while now, and our electricity bill is barely changed from before them. It's amazing how cheap it can be to charge these things, it's perfect for a daily driver.
When I use an Electrify America charger it costs me 42 cents per kWh with the monthly subscription or 56 cents without, and about 38 cents at a Tesla Supercharger.
That's still cheaper than what I paid for my gas powered daily drivers (of equivalent performance), but far more than charging at home.
Not paying quite that, but it’s gone up a lot in the last couple of years and the power company is pretending it’s not because of the massive data centers that have been popping up all over Oregon.
I mean you can just run the numbers?? It's not insane it's just EVs and you fell for the FUD.
10 cents per kilowatt, average 3.5 miles per kilowatt. With 15 bucks you get 150 kilowatts. Multiply that by 3.5 miles per kilowatt and you get 525 miles.
I pay 14-17 cents per kilowatt so my personal numbers are not far off.
I went and checked current rates for the energy company where I used to live. 11 cents for the standard rate in the winter. 13 cents in the summer. If you do time of day pricing, it's 25 cents on peak, 4 cents off peak.
I'm not saying you have a choice, but you are still definitely getting ripped off. The national average is around 17 cents and even in new Jersey the average is evidently around 20 cents. Your paying Hawaii prices.
Again. I'm not saying you have a choice. It's just was more expensive than it should be. Obviously there is nothing you can do about that other than move to a different city but I'm not sure why you think you are paying a fair price. You can look up what power costs in other places, you're paying more than LA, NYC, or Chicago.
I'm sure we all understand that, just not your statement implying you have to be in the middle of Kansas to get lower prices. It's your location that's the outlier, not the others.
Looks like AC Electric have not been investing into their infrastructure, and are scrambling now and raising rates hugely. Sorry they are your only option.
They have though, they cite these rate hikes as infrastructure related upgrades, they been raising them like crazy for like 4 years and it's not just them it's all the power companies in NJ
If you have access to solar then it can eventually be 0 cents per kilowatt but it does take time to break even. the good news is you would only need 3 400 watt panels to charge at 1.2kW/hour in sunny conditions which would cover the average Americans daily commute.
Alternatively, invest in full panel coverage for your roof and after 5 to 15 years you break even and then your electric bill drops significantly for all usage and not just the car. Panels last 25 years plus and the power company is liable to increase price in that time so odds are it would pay off.
If you need a new roof, wait to do the solar until you do the new roof.
Many washignton counties have very cheap electric due to having rights for the hydro where the capital costs were paid off decades ago and the marginal costs are only $.02 per kWh. My residential electeic rate is $0.08.
My last house had 5.25c USD electricity, 10%-90% on a hummer EV would be less than $10. I have coal power now instead of hydroelectric, so I'm now at 11 cents per Kw/H because we haven't built out enough renewable here yet.
Your math is not matching. Assuming $0.14 a KWH, $12 of electricity at an efficient of 5 miles a KWH (which is pretty high) is around 430 miles of range.
I understand your point but the range for the cost is greatly exaggerated.
Gotcha, I think I got your reply mixed up with another redditor. But your cost for electricity is very low. It’s definitely not super common where I live. Electricity plus delivery charge is currently at $0.24 a KWH and there is no peak vs off peak savings. Everyone needs to do the calculation for themselves. Overall it’s still cheaper than ICE vehicles, the gap is just not as big.
Here in Ontario overnight rates are 3.9 cents per kwh, and I get a rebate of 10 cents per kwh to charge my car. I'm literally being paid to drive right now, it's wild
No, not even close. I drove it very carefully today and tickled it up to 12mpg.
I misunderstood what the OP was saying. I thought he was saying he could do 290 miles for $3.50 of gas. An impossible mpg but worked out at a similar miles per dollar as the EV. It was very early in the morning and I was still quite asleep.
Well that does make it make sense. Some how I didn’t see that when I replied early in the morning. I thought he was saying he’d get 290 miles on his gallon of gas (which is impossible but works out at a similar miles per dollar cost if possible).
Both numbers are the same because both are talking about the EV. They never gave us a cost per 1000 miles or 290 miles from the ICE car. Assuming 30mpg and $3.50 a gallon, it’s $116ish dollars for the same 1000 miles that they’re doing for $12 in the EV. Or about 8.6 miles per dollar. 10x more expensive.
Yeah you’re missing the point that they were making. They were saying for $12 they can get 1000 miles of range. Or if you compare it to a gallon of gas at $3.50, they can get 290 miles of range.
A much better way to present it would’ve been to say: for $3.50 they can get 290 miles of range whereas even the most efficient car at 50 MPG would have to pay around $20 for the same 290 miles.
Q5, electric skateboard, ebike, day trading. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but when you put them together in one person that person isn't really the authority on what consumer products are soulless.
Some automakers have released entirely new models under $40,000 in recent years, including the Chevrolet Equinox and the Subaru Uncharted. And the end of the tax credit led others to drop prices on existing cars: Tesla introduced a trimmed-down, significantly cheaper Model 3, and Hyundai slashed its Ioniq 5 prices by roughly the same amount as the credit.
But for most buyers, who live to take on unreasonable amounts of debt, the higher initial cost is of much greater concern. And if you have to keep it for 5+ years to maybe break even, they're still going to take the safer, immediate savings.
If you can squeeze 2.5 more years out of your clunker while saving for a bigger down payment then EVs become a no-brainer for a lot of people, but that's asking a lot of the average person.
I think this is more specific to Tesla (and possibly Rivian) as repair shops have a harder time sourcing parts from them, or you have to use the manufacturer's facility.
False. My friend has an Kia EV6 and Forte, both 2023 models, bought new. Same coverages. Under the same policy. Both cars have safety systems. The EV6 is cheaper somehow by at least $250 cheaper for the 6 month policy total.
I mean exact rates will vary but yea insuring EVs is significantly more expensive. For me I went from 110/month for full coverage on an Audi s4 to 200/no on a model y
I think it depends a lot on that and a little on the insurer themselves. Progressive has always been the cheapest for me no matter what vehicle I had. For whatever reason, they didn’t like it when I went from a Civic to a Bolt. They wanted $500 more every 6 months. Quoted with Geico and it was $120 less than it was with the Civic.
We have a Lightning and Mach-e which replaced an F-150 Hybrid and an Escape. Insurance is less on the Lightning and about even on the Escape.
Fuel costs have been $300/mo less (likely more with current prices) since I am fortunate to be able to charge at work so I’m not using electricity at home. Even without that we would only be spending about $50/mo using home electricity.
With rebates and all that the lease costs are lower than the gas vehicles they replaced. Since Ford stupidly dropped the Lightning I may end up buying it at the end of the lease as I can’t see going back to buying gas and doing oil changes and the time lost spent at gas stations.
My polestar 2 is much cheaper to insure than my Fiesta ST and the polestar is worth twice as much. My assumption is that this is because of the higher safety rating and not being associated with racer boys like the Fiesta.
"If driving experience was the priority, then for me it is ICE 100%. l'd get a GR Corolla, Elantra N, Civic Type R, or Integra Type S for four seats, four doors, and similar budget."
i’d much rather drive a camry than a model 3, especially now that all Camry’s are hybrid getting 46+ mpg.
i owned a 3 and the ride was crap, the interior was loud, the glass roof got super hot in summer, and all controls being on the screen got annoying. plus the insurance was expensive af.
Specifically the three the person you replied to mentioned. Of those three pairs I've only driven the Ioniq 5 and Tucson, but the Ioniq 5 is at least an order of magnitude better to drive. If I had to choose between the two the price delta would have to be more than 50% for me to start even considering the Tucson.
If you keep your car for 6 ish years youll have made your money back.
These calculations were quick and based off estimates to make kr easy for me, using the best mpg for gas and the lowest for ev and roughly the price of each car that i found from a quick Google search.
Assuming you drive 10k miles a year:
Ev equinox- 28k near me- gonna use 96 mpge
Gas equinox- 22k near me- gonna use 27mpg
Ev- 10000 miles ÷96 mpge= 104.17 x $2.00 (im using a way higher price per kw than what is by me)= $208.34 yearly electric cost
cost
Gas- 10000 mi ÷ 27 mpg= 370.37 ×$3.00 (super low gas cost estimate)= $1111.11 yearly gas cost
cost
So even with super expensive electric relative to super cheap gas prices it takes 6 years. With higher gas cost and cheaper electricity it will be even quicker until the ev is cheaper.
And now add in brakes and oil changes, and then maybe add in all the fuel engine maintenance that people are supposed to do but don't, air filters, coolant changes, brake fluid changes, transmission fluid changes.
Right, but they are significantly cheaper to operate and maintain so I am ok with higher up front costs. They will not be cheaper than gas for awhile, and that is ok. It’s an investment.
I own a Y and test drove a bunch of other evs. Teslas are still the best bang for your buck and it’s not close. You can get better ones like a rivian or lucid but they are much more money.
yea, sure, it totally comes down to a matter of opinion. i owned a model 3.
i prefer physical controls for all of the key functions in a car. i like a smoother ride and quieter interior, especially on highway and bumpy roads. i like not paying for lane keep assist. i like having the option to close a thick built in shade for a panoramic roof that gets hot af in the summer. i prefer regular door handles instead of the Tesla ones. i like using carplay.
for me, other brands have surpassed Tesla in bang for buck in what I am looking for.
I suppose. But Tesla is also rated higher in almost every review so the data also shows that Tesla is overall better. Opinions can vary, but data doesn’t lie.
the “better tech” is the FSD that, while improving, is like 10 years late at this point.
they paywalled lane keep assist, so any standard Tesla without FSD is actually behind on tech. moving most physical controls to a screen is not better tech. really what do they have that is better in 2026?
well, it’s 100% gone in North America at the very least.
so revised statement: in markets where lane keep has been removed, they are lacking a basic tech that most manufacturers provide standard on a lot of cars.
How is this blasphemy? The main criticisms have been worse range, poor charging networks, and higher prices. No one here was saying they didn't want these things to improve, this is doing what we've been asking for.
Shit, I don't care about high range. 100 miles is plenty for me so long as I can recharge it on 240v in less than 8 hours every night. Just give me an affordable EV that actually looks good, instead of like an egg (Bolt) or Lil Tykes toy (Leaf). Just make a compact or subcompact EV that's 25 grand or less, sporty, and make it look like an Audi A3 and take my money, damn the range.
8.5 seconds to 60 is slow as hell for any modern car, which is one of the many reasons I would never buy a diesel. If I'm going to buy an ice car it better be fun or what's the point?
I’m skeptical of “high range”. The highest range models get ~250 miles of real world highway range maybe. And they aren’t cheap. Putting “high range” and “cheap” in same sentence annoys me as much as manufacturers claiming a 0-60 time of a fully charged battery while bragging about a charging curve below 20%.
They definitely don't there is a reason why their market share is falling outside of the USA as Chinese EVs bring much needed competition and even have offerings in segments Tesla and other western automakers don't even have vehicles in or their offerings are extremely expensive for that segment
I am looking into car ownership and just like most young adults in my country where petrol is expensive as hell compared to the average income we are looking at EVs, the two countries dominating the market here for EVs are China and South Korea due to their competitive pricing, features and in terms of Major brands like BYD long warranties
It really just makes sense at this point. Of course they're going to get better, because a lot of the early issues are being tackled. Add in the fact that gas and oil are high as giraffe ass right now.
That's a perfectly fine price for an upper market Golf-class vehicle now that the ID.Polo is bigger, it isn't meant to be the cheapest economy car. And it's European pricing.
ID.Polo is Polo sized (shocking, I know), and that much money for a subcompact isn't fine. The actual EV equivalent of Golf is ID.3, and the cheapest trim of that, with 30 kilometers less range, is also 34k EUR.
I guess it depends on which measurements you're using. The 2021 Polo is 1751mm wide, the 2019 Golf 1789mm, the ID.Polo 1816mm.
As for length the 2021 Polo is 4074mm, the 2019 Golf 4284mm and the ID.Polo 4053mm.
So it's a bit shorter but also a decent bit wider, I found those differences in width to make a bigger difference in the city than the length. When choosing our city car we focused on width and got the Alfa Romeo Junior Elettrica, it is extremely easy to park and still feels spacious inside, not as cramped as smaller hatchbacks. I bet that's how the ID.Polo feels inside, too, given its electric packaging. And that's what you pay for.
What you pay for is Volkswagen's inability to make a truly affordable EV. As you said, the more spacious interior is inherent to a shift to an EV, so it would happen regardless if ID.Polo was 25 or 35k. Somehow they managed to make a "cheap" EV that barely any cheaper than a car class above it.
It’s been weird to see this subreddit go from car enthusiasts to china praising ev fans over the past few years. It wasn’t that many years ago tha this place was completely different.
It’s mostly bots I think. Or at least it started that way. They realized how easy it is to make Americans like China by spreading propaganda on Reddit.
Same idea as America dropping XXL condoms on communist countries during the cold war.
It's not "mostly bots." It's just the folks who care about cars getting better, and pushing the tech forward. US manufacturers (the traditional ones) just aren't doing that. For folks who value a V8 over a more powerful and more efficient V6, that won't matter. For folks who value speed, design, and technical advancement, there's obviously going to be a broad interest in those areas - and right now, Chinese companies are dominating those areas. You don't have to like china to acknowledge that Chinese EVs are 5-7 years ahead of anyone else right now.
But having been in this sub for over 15 years across four usernames, let me reiterate what we all acknowledge: the older crowd in this sub (manual, brown wagon, naturally aspirated, V8) doesn't reflect the interests of GenZ or younger, and they're showing up here now too. We used to comment on articles that they had no interest in cars, or driving. Now they do, but their interests are in EVs.
so tl;dr - it's not bots, it's just younger folks coming in and not reflecting the interests of the older crowd. Get used to it; it's only going to accelerate (pun intended.)
This is actually exactly my point that the bots lead to real people believing it. US manufacturers are on par with China. It just isn’t Ford or Chevy, it’s Lucid and Rivian. Lucid has battery tech better than BYD and both companies have long-range cars under 50k coming out this year. Bots suppress good news about American EVs and spread good news about China to make you think China is amazing.
The “cheap” EVs aren’t actually any cheaper. They’re cheaper if you do a straight dollar to yuan conversion but that isn’t how anything actually works. You would have to import or set up a factory, and even if tariffs were $0, this would add 20-30% to the price, and bring Chinese EVs in line with the prices of Lucid or Rivian. Tesla manufactures in both the US and China, so has no tariffs in either place, yet their cars cost 20-30% more in the US.
Yes, things are expensive, and it sucks. But you aren’t going to find solutions to that problem on Reddit.
I mean, I'm a shareholder of both Lucid and Rivian, but even as a huge fan of them both (I maintain Lucid is the best-driving American or European EV by far) I would disagree that "Lucid has battery tech better than BYD" I still think that American and European EVs are 5-7 years behind Chinese companies. And no bot got me to believe that - my heavy research for personal investments did.
I don’t think there’s a lot of Gen Z here they don’t care about cars. People into electric cars don’t really care about cars to go to a subreddit about it. It’s just enthusiasts and there are very few electric car enthusiasts. So it’s weird this enthusiast subreddit is so much about electric Chinese vehicles.
"Gen Z don’t care about cars" is about seven years out of date. Ownership and interest is almost exactly that of millennials.
"People into electric cars don’t really care about cars to go to a subreddit about it." is just ... wrong? And easily disproven entirely by the reality that there are multiple big subs broadly about EVs, or specific to EV manufacturers. So if people into electric cars don't care enough to go to a subreddit, then how are there millions of people on ev subreddits?
"It’s just enthusiasts and there are very few electric car enthusiasts." Meanwhile you go to any real gathering like the Petersen drive-ins or any cars and coffee, and there are plenty of EVs, to say nothing of how one of the two fastest growing EV categories is "EVs that prioritize driving experience" like the N line at Kia/Hyundai or the entire redesign of the BMW Neue Klasse EVs coming out. Strange how there are very few electric car enthusiasts except for the millions of vocal electric car enthusiasts.
I'm genuinely not sure how you could have been further away from the modern reality of the automotive enthusiast landscape. I think you're just in a personal bubble where "cars" have to equal "gas" so anything moving electrons isn't a "real" car and therefore "not real" enthusiasm.
And lest you think I'm biased here, I own four cars, none of which are EVs, and three of which would fall firmly into the "enthusiast" category: A Giulia Quadrifoglio (my daily), a 992.1 Turbo S, and an ND Miata. But I am looking forward to owning a Rivian 3X, and whatever the Audi Concept C ends up being called.
It also hinges on how much EV infrastructure is in your area. If you can charge it in places other than your home or apartment parking, it could still work. But that's location dependent obviously.
I was just curious about how high a giraffes ass would be on average so I had to google it. 6 feet apparently. Probably a useless fact but I’m now satisfied
Ehh I've seen places lose power in areas because to many EVs on a almost 100 year old electrical grid that has had piss poor bare bottom of the barrel maintenance so I think electric is still just a trend like 100 years ago just now we have big money backing it to try to force it
It’s wild how battery tech is letting EVs go further without the price tag being through the roof. If this keeps up, driving electric could actually make sense for more people soon.
Some people do, but it's just a small amount of people.
I've known country folk who lived in rural areas where the cost of housing is low who would drive into the cities for work because no decent jobs were available in their rural areas. There are also people who work in big cities in high cost of living areas and made the decision to live further out and have long commutes because the price of home ownership and housing closer in is ridiculous. You can also have situations where spouses have good jobs in different cities and one ends up having a long commute ("two body problem").
That's true depending on where you live and what car you buy. I live in Florida so I don't have to worry about the cold, but I'd be surprised if a Lucid Air Grand Touring couldn't make it 300 miles in the below freezing weather.
I really like what Porsche did with the new Cayenne.
For daily use, basically forgetting that fuel/energy consumption exists, with wireless charging and great range, and simply using the car, should greatly increase practicality and comfort.
Completely disagree. Wireless charging is a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. It takes 2 seconds to plug in. Meanwhile wireless charging is just throwing away 10%+ of your electricity.
I'd like wireless charging. It's not about the time it takes to plug in. It's the convenience of not having to deal with cables at all. And like the other poster said, the efficiency of Porsche's system is ~3-5% less than L2 charging, which is a cost I'd be willing to pay.
Porsche's wireless charging implementation is actually over 90% efficient and pretty much on par with wired L2 charging, so efficiency is not the issue. But there is nearly $10k of upfront cost for the charger and the receiver in the car. It's a great proof of concept and functional feature for early adopters, time will tell if the tech trickles down and cost scales if it becomes widely adopted.
Model 3 came out in 2017 with well over two hundred miles of range and was $44k-7.5k ev incentive. 2019 it became even cheaper.
What the fuck are they even talking about. They had to pull the mini EV and the e-Golf to make the graph? Those are shit EVs and were shit EVs out of the gate. Plop a Model 3 onto that graph and the whole article falls apart.
Should look at leasing EVs. Equinox EVs are bloody cheap. A well equipped LT2 is only $33k with discounts. Personally I might consider a Ioniq 6 N if we have a garage ever...
jameson71@reddit
I am convinced that EVs will overtake ICE not only due to advances in EV technology, but due to the laws that are choking the ICE to death.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
We can only afford so many asthma subsidies
jameson71@reddit
Making ICEs that self destruct in 100k can’t be good for the environment
wtfduud@reddit
Which laws are making them self destruct after 100k?
jameson71@reddit
The ones where they have to run very lean (which increases heat) and the ones that say vaporized oil and exhaust gasses need to be sent back through the air intake to start with.
Cars aren’t engineered to last anymore they’re engineered to help the fleet meet CAFE standards and not blow up during the warranty period.
wtfduud@reddit
Well, the pollution from making a new car every 100k miles is less than the pollution from running incomplete combustions through the exhaust.
jameson71@reddit
If you believe this then I have news for you.
jkggwp@reddit
Wait till you let the Chinese EVs into the US market
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Which will never happen, thankfully
MetaTrombonist@reddit
Which is the same reason why non-US countries should be banning US made cars.
PEEWUN@reddit
Only because US OEMs have been laying the groundwork for the past 50 years.
When was the last time a US brand was best in class in any passenger car segment?
dman928@reddit
Cadillac Blackwing.
wtfduud@reddit
Hahaha, no
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
The subsidies are basically gone. The reason their cars are better is because their economy is actually competitive, unlike America’s.
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
Okay but the sector is killing itself - why do you think Hyundai is growing in the US at the pace that they are?
American car companies want you to pay 30% more for the same thing or less and Americans are saying no thank you.
iBarber111@reddit
Never happening
ry1701@reddit
I think it's maintenance comparisons is off by a lot.
Also, depending on where you live, electricity can be super cheap, especially off peak, for me, in 1000 miles, it cost me 12 dollars in electricity.
.... 12 dollars.
83 miles per DOLLAR.
For the cost of a gallon of gas at 3.50. I could get 290 miles.
Wbrincat@reddit
I just got back from a work trip where I drove close to 3000km. I used 2 highway chargers the entire trip and the rest of the time was able to charge with a cable where I was staying. I paid $60 AUD for the entire trip. The guys with me in petrol cars had to fill up 3 or 4 times.
Camburglar13@reddit
Only 3 or 4 times driving 3,000 km’s?? What were they driving? Even most small fuel efficient cars go like.. 600-800km’s on a tank
Wbrincat@reddit
I wasn’t exactly keeping exact tabs on them. My old diesel comfortably did 700-800km on a tank
Camburglar13@reddit
Where my Mazda 3 gets 500, maybe 550 if I’m keeping speed down but that would be a stretch. Though it’s a small tank too.
chriscrossls@reddit
I have no ToU or anything on my plan, I just got my report from my charger yesterday: $19 for "gas" last month.
moonRekt@reddit
We pay $.14/kwh off peak (or nothing with our rooftop solar) but I’m trying to figure out how you’re getting 83 miles per dollar. You’re either getting like 10mi/kw or living in Bhutan and paying like $.03/kwh cuz the math ain’t mathing to me otherwise
ry1701@reddit
I paid 3.59 for 56.6 kwh during a recent charge.
AtomWorker@reddit
How much are you paying for electricity in kWh?
Around here, after taxes and misc fees I’m paying over 40 cents per kWh. That changes the value proposition considerably.
Srtviper@reddit
Wow that's crazy high. Mine is 11-14 depending on how much I use. What are gas prices like in your area?
ry1701@reddit
4.89 a gallon for regular.
My m2' is indefinitely parked at the moment lol
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
If you have an m2 20 dollar a gallon gas shouldnt be a worry
ry1701@reddit
Lol, true, I just don't like to spend money on things when 1) they should be cheaper and 2) the EV is the cheapest thing I can drive for milage.
I_love_quiche@reddit
Know what you mean. Always a struggle to justify driving the M4 instead of the i4 when gas is $6.50 to $7 a gallon for premium. Have to count in smiles per mile instead.
AtomWorker@reddit
My last fill up was $4.39/gallon which is slightly on the high side but definitely not an outlier.
This is Connecticut we’re talking about so high taxes are a big factor. I’m being a bit reductive but those taxes, NIMBYism and a lack of foresight have all contributed to our high utility costs. The utilities suck but rate hikes have to be approved by the state for whatever that’s worth. And of course, party politics are also an issue.
Frubanoid@reddit
I also pay 40 cents per kwh but it's still cheaper than gas. Also extremely low maintenance. 128k miles and still on the original brakes, for example! I get around 4mi/kwh, more when its warmer, less when its below 50°F out.
Kamukix@reddit
Holy crap! I only pay 14 cents per kWh, and that's after it was raised from 13 a year or so ago. That's an enormous difference between us.
ATN5@reddit
Is that both supply and delivery?
xarune@reddit
That's approximately the all-in rate for Washington state. I'm like $0.15/kwh + $8 monthly.
It's also the state that battles CA for most expensive gas. So EVs are a fantastic proposition here outside of annoyingly high registration fees for them.
ATN5@reddit
Dang I’m 0.24 all in here in MD, not terrible but seeing people with super low rates makes me jealous 😂
JxSnaKe@reddit
Yeah I’m $30 a month and like .08/kwh or something like that
Kamukix@reddit
That's all in for us, we've owned at least 1 if not 2 EV's for a while now, and our electricity bill is barely changed from before them. It's amazing how cheap it can be to charge these things, it's perfect for a daily driver.
When I use an Electrify America charger it costs me 42 cents per kWh with the monthly subscription or 56 cents without, and about 38 cents at a Tesla Supercharger.
That's still cheaper than what I paid for my gas powered daily drivers (of equivalent performance), but far more than charging at home.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Thats extreme
TyburnCross@reddit
Not paying quite that, but it’s gone up a lot in the last couple of years and the power company is pretending it’s not because of the massive data centers that have been popping up all over Oregon.
regardballs@reddit
Wow where are you located,? In WA State I pray ~.10 /kWh
dissectingAAA@reddit
Average for CA. WA has some of the best kwh pricing in USA.
enp2s0@reddit
Is this at a commercial charger or your home electric rate?
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
That's a very typical off-peak home electric rate in california
ry1701@reddit
5.6 ¢ to 6.34¢ kWh off peak depending on the season.
withsexyresults@reddit
But how much is your gas. If it’s like $7, then eletric still cheaper
Lower_Kick268@reddit
That's insane, idk if I believe that. Even if you paid half of what I in power it would be $15 for 500 miles
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
I mean you can just run the numbers?? It's not insane it's just EVs and you fell for the FUD.
10 cents per kilowatt, average 3.5 miles per kilowatt. With 15 bucks you get 150 kilowatts. Multiply that by 3.5 miles per kilowatt and you get 525 miles.
I pay 14-17 cents per kilowatt so my personal numbers are not far off.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
10 cents per KW is way too cheap, we pay 30 cents per KW.
antman_mn@reddit
It's not unbelievable. I paid 11 cents before I moved. It's now 15 cents where I live
Lower_Kick268@reddit
I find that hard to believe, we haven't paid that since pre covid
Logitech4873@reddit
I pay ~8.5 cents / kWh.
antman_mn@reddit
I went and checked current rates for the energy company where I used to live. 11 cents for the standard rate in the winter. 13 cents in the summer. If you do time of day pricing, it's 25 cents on peak, 4 cents off peak.
https://xcelnew.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/1U0000011ttV/a/R300000BMDbO/l6wdFxk4yN39w_JhKCqKJ9knzPCttRTQS7STuyUqK4Y
Lower_Kick268@reddit
I wish it were like that where I live, instead it's just .30 per kw no matter what time of day you want to charge
BMWbill@reddit
Here in NY right outside of NYC we pay 14¢. (At night time with the split plan)
Lower_Kick268@reddit
We pay .30 no matter the time of day
BMWbill@reddit
Then you should petition your electric company to offer the half priced off peak plan that so many electric companies offer across the USA!
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Lmao yeah right, AC Electric is anti-consumer and in bed with the government
BMWbill@reddit
Bastards!! You should have gone for DC electric which was backed by Thomas Edison!
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Nah Westinghouse and Tesla were the real goats
Srtviper@reddit
Under 15 cents is not unusual in a lot of the US
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Yeah maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere Kansas
Srtviper@reddit
I live in downtown Orlando Florida. You're just getting ripped off baby.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
We aren't, that's just what it costs in NJ
Srtviper@reddit
I'm not saying you have a choice, but you are still definitely getting ripped off. The national average is around 17 cents and even in new Jersey the average is evidently around 20 cents. Your paying Hawaii prices.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
No we are paying Atlantic City Electric prices, this is just what power costs in 2025, we ain't got a choice unless we wanna be Amish.
Srtviper@reddit
Again. I'm not saying you have a choice. It's just was more expensive than it should be. Obviously there is nothing you can do about that other than move to a different city but I'm not sure why you think you are paying a fair price. You can look up what power costs in other places, you're paying more than LA, NYC, or Chicago.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
They're all around that in NJ, 25-30 per KW is normal and just what power costs
TrptJim@reddit
I'm sure we all understand that, just not your statement implying you have to be in the middle of Kansas to get lower prices. It's your location that's the outlier, not the others.
TrptJim@reddit
I'm not far outside of Atlanta and am paying under that by a good amount.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
That is what is offered, AC Electric is the power company
TrptJim@reddit
Looks like AC Electric have not been investing into their infrastructure, and are scrambling now and raising rates hugely. Sorry they are your only option.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
They have though, they cite these rate hikes as infrastructure related upgrades, they been raising them like crazy for like 4 years and it's not just them it's all the power companies in NJ
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
If you have access to solar then it can eventually be 0 cents per kilowatt but it does take time to break even. the good news is you would only need 3 400 watt panels to charge at 1.2kW/hour in sunny conditions which would cover the average Americans daily commute.
Alternatively, invest in full panel coverage for your roof and after 5 to 15 years you break even and then your electric bill drops significantly for all usage and not just the car. Panels last 25 years plus and the power company is liable to increase price in that time so odds are it would pay off.
If you need a new roof, wait to do the solar until you do the new roof.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
NJ doesn't do solar unless you pay a company to rent panels
koopa00@reddit
Chiming in at 8 cents per kilowatt.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Where? Kansas?
koopa00@reddit
Just outside Portland, OR.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
I find that hard to believe you guys pay that little
Time-Maintenance2165@reddit
Many washignton counties have very cheap electric due to having rights for the hydro where the capital costs were paid off decades ago and the marginal costs are only $.02 per kWh. My residential electeic rate is $0.08.
hutacars@reddit
$0.0879/kWh for me in southern WA.
koopa00@reddit
Well...we do lol
markeydarkey2@reddit
*kilowatt hour
Kilowatt (kW) is just the rate, kilowatt hour (kWh) is the unit you use & pay for.
durrtyurr@reddit
My last house had 5.25c USD electricity, 10%-90% on a hummer EV would be less than $10. I have coal power now instead of hydroelectric, so I'm now at 11 cents per Kw/H because we haven't built out enough renewable here yet.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
We are 30 cents per kw
maximus91@reddit
Where?
Lower_Kick268@reddit
NJ
maximus91@reddit
NY Supply 99.00 kWh @12.313¢/kWh
My last bill
TupacBatmanOfTheHood@reddit
Hawaii has really high rates that poster is probably in Hawaii if telling the truth.
Lower_Kick268@reddit
I'm not I'm in NJ
MyLittlePoneh@reddit
Your math is not matching. Assuming $0.14 a KWH, $12 of electricity at an efficient of 5 miles a KWH (which is pretty high) is around 430 miles of range.
I understand your point but the range for the cost is greatly exaggerated.
ry1701@reddit
Electricity is 5-6 cents depending on the season and I get between 4.2 - 4.8 miles / kwh right now.
MyLittlePoneh@reddit
Gotcha, I think I got your reply mixed up with another redditor. But your cost for electricity is very low. It’s definitely not super common where I live. Electricity plus delivery charge is currently at $0.24 a KWH and there is no peak vs off peak savings. Everyone needs to do the calculation for themselves. Overall it’s still cheaper than ICE vehicles, the gap is just not as big.
ry1701@reddit
All good. I didn't think I would get so many replies lol
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
I pay 10 cents and a lot of places have free electricity.
Clover-kun@reddit
Here in Ontario overnight rates are 3.9 cents per kwh, and I get a rebate of 10 cents per kwh to charge my car. I'm literally being paid to drive right now, it's wild
Bloodyfinger@reddit
Can you send post a reference to that rebate? I can't find anything about it.
Clover-kun@reddit
Check out charging clubs from United Chargers (makers of Grizzle-E) and Pion Power
DStanley1809@reddit
Am I missing something? That’s about the same.
1000/$12 = 83.33 miles per dollar.
290/$3.50 = 82.86 miles per dollar.
Sindica69@reddit
Go retake a math class lol
DStanley1809@reddit
I did the maths there. He said he did 1000 miles on $12 of electricity. 1000 miles divided by $12 is 83.33 miles per dollar.
He then said for the cost of a gallon of gas at $3.50 he can do 290 miles. 290 miles / $3.50 is 82.86 miles per dollar.
The maths using the numbers given is correct. The issue is I don’t think he can get 290 miles per gallon on his gas.
Sindica69@reddit
You’re reading that statement so wrong it’s hilarious.
For the same price as one gallon of gas, aka, for $3.50 of generated electricity, he can go for 290 miles.
DStanley1809@reddit
Yeah, I see that now lol. Not one of my better days.
Sindica69@reddit
😂 we all have them
prawalnono@reddit
Dude what? Your Range Rover (or any ICE car) gives you 290 miles per gallon?
DStanley1809@reddit
No, not even close. I drove it very carefully today and tickled it up to 12mpg.
I misunderstood what the OP was saying. I thought he was saying he could do 290 miles for $3.50 of gas. An impossible mpg but worked out at a similar miles per dollar as the EV. It was very early in the morning and I was still quite asleep.
Jam_Bannock@reddit
He's saying that for the same cost as a gallon of gas, he's getting enough electric power to drive 290 miles in his EV.
DStanley1809@reddit
Well that does make it make sense. Some how I didn’t see that when I replied early in the morning. I thought he was saying he’d get 290 miles on his gallon of gas (which is impossible but works out at a similar miles per dollar cost if possible).
TheRealPizza@reddit
Both numbers are the same because both are talking about the EV. They never gave us a cost per 1000 miles or 290 miles from the ICE car. Assuming 30mpg and $3.50 a gallon, it’s $116ish dollars for the same 1000 miles that they’re doing for $12 in the EV. Or about 8.6 miles per dollar. 10x more expensive.
sipup@reddit
Think he meant 29 miles
Pesto_Nightmare@reddit
No. If he gets 1000 miles for $12, that means $3.50 in electricity gets him 290 miles. 1000 miles / dollar * $3.50 = 290 miles.
What he is saying is instead of paying $3.50 for a gallon of gas and driving 20-40 miles, he buys $3.50 in electricity and drives 290 miles.
sipup@reddit
Oh yea, makes sense
OptimalFunction@reddit
The mpg of the gas car. No car is giving you 290 miles per gallon.
Assume a car gives you 29mph then it should be:
29 miles per gallon / $3.50 per gallon = 8.28 miles per dollar.
Electric is cheaper lol
papmaster1000@reddit
They’re saying they could get 290 miles for $3.50 you’re not getting 290 miles out of a gallon of gas in any car
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Yeah you’re missing the point that they were making. They were saying for $12 they can get 1000 miles of range. Or if you compare it to a gallon of gas at $3.50, they can get 290 miles of range.
A much better way to present it would’ve been to say: for $3.50 they can get 290 miles of range whereas even the most efficient car at 50 MPG would have to pay around $20 for the same 290 miles.
isobethehen@reddit
It’s 3.50 for one gallon of gas. SUVs usually average 20-30mpg so it would be \~25/$3.50=7.14 miles per dollar. Over a magnitude worse than an EV.
2days@reddit
I live in ca and I charge my car up 2-3 times a month I haven’t seen a dent in my bill at home. 2024 Q8 etron
chewie_were_home@reddit
Same in GA, i pay about 2cents per kw at night. I can fill the truck for about $2.50
Makeitquick666@reddit
so... better EVs?
GT112312@reddit
Nah...they're still soulless.
Snoo93079@reddit
Unlike a RAV4 which has so much soul!
SarcasticOptimist@reddit
The V6 I had was quite fun, but yeah, they're appliances.
GT112312@reddit
Amazing machines, I have one of those too.
KorgothOfBarbaria@reddit
A Q5 driver lmao
GT112312@reddit
I swear I've driven more than a Q5...
I have an electric skateboard too.
LMAO.
strongmanass@reddit
Q5, electric skateboard, ebike, day trading. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but when you put them together in one person that person isn't really the authority on what consumer products are soulless.
GreatBallsOfFIRE@reddit
There are definitely problems with day trading…
strongmanass@reddit
I meant there's nothing wrong with it in the most literal sense. But yeah there are problems with how it's typically done.
GT112312@reddit
But wait, there's more..
I have an electric scooter too.
My opinion upset you so much that you went through my entire profile to, profile me.?!
Ah...Reddit.
Srtviper@reddit
Lmfao. So soulful.
mulletstation@reddit
How many tank tops do you own
GT112312@reddit
No thanks, I'm committed.
Flattering response though..
mulletstation@reddit
Typical
GT112312@reddit
Agreed.. If I may suggest, ditch the mullet and gay pick up lines and target smarter.
Good luck.
221missile@reddit (OP)
Blasphemy to r/cars
xlb250@reddit
The Equinox EV is still $6,000 more than the gas.
Ioniq 5 is $6,000 more than Tuscon.
You also get less cargo space, which comes in handy when stacking luggages for a group of four.
AdamN@reddit
That still seems breakeven or better for most people who have a charger possibility at home over 4-5 years.
cubs223425@reddit
But for most buyers, who live to take on unreasonable amounts of debt, the higher initial cost is of much greater concern. And if you have to keep it for 5+ years to maybe break even, they're still going to take the safer, immediate savings.
Then_Entertainment97@reddit
If you can squeeze 2.5 more years out of your clunker while saving for a bigger down payment then EVs become a no-brainer for a lot of people, but that's asking a lot of the average person.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
2-3 years, even. I pay $0.05/kWh at night for electricity, yet fuel is $2.20 / L.
Chicken_Zest@reddit
Insurance on EVs is like double regular cars which negates a lot of savings
biggsteve81@reddit
I think this is more specific to Tesla (and possibly Rivian) as repair shops have a harder time sourcing parts from them, or you have to use the manufacturer's facility.
Logitech4873@reddit
I have a Model 3 and pay basically the average insurance cost.
Logitech4873@reddit
No it's not.
_Unusual_Flatworm_@reddit
False. My friend has an Kia EV6 and Forte, both 2023 models, bought new. Same coverages. Under the same policy. Both cars have safety systems. The EV6 is cheaper somehow by at least $250 cheaper for the 6 month policy total.
AdamN@reddit
That surprises me - a Camry is half the insurance rate as a Tesla model 3?
Chicken_Zest@reddit
I mean exact rates will vary but yea insuring EVs is significantly more expensive. For me I went from 110/month for full coverage on an Audi s4 to 200/no on a model y
Snoo93079@reddit
How old are you?
adamfps@reddit
(20, and he got in 3 accidents the last year)
no_f-s_given@reddit
depends on the area, with high traffic, etc.
40s, zero accidents, no tickets, and still significantly higher than a Kia EV it was replaced with. Like 70-80% higher.
no_f-s_given@reddit
Model 3 insurance is expensive af.
koopa00@reddit
It just depends on the car like anything else. A gas or EV Equinox is basically the same.
muchgreaterthanG_O_D@reddit
Did you shop around?
Snoo93079@reddit
Simply not true
Bigbadbrindledog@reddit
This is true or Teslas and high powered EVs, is it true or Equinoxes and the like?
w3stvirginia@reddit
I think it depends a lot on that and a little on the insurer themselves. Progressive has always been the cheapest for me no matter what vehicle I had. For whatever reason, they didn’t like it when I went from a Civic to a Bolt. They wanted $500 more every 6 months. Quoted with Geico and it was $120 less than it was with the Civic.
Vulnox@reddit
We have a Lightning and Mach-e which replaced an F-150 Hybrid and an Escape. Insurance is less on the Lightning and about even on the Escape.
Fuel costs have been $300/mo less (likely more with current prices) since I am fortunate to be able to charge at work so I’m not using electricity at home. Even without that we would only be spending about $50/mo using home electricity.
With rebates and all that the lease costs are lower than the gas vehicles they replaced. Since Ford stupidly dropped the Lightning I may end up buying it at the end of the lease as I can’t see going back to buying gas and doing oil changes and the time lost spent at gas stations.
Srtviper@reddit
My polestar 2 is much cheaper to insure than my Fiesta ST and the polestar is worth twice as much. My assumption is that this is because of the higher safety rating and not being associated with racer boys like the Fiesta.
ZetaM3@reddit
I just added an EV and it’s cheaper than my gas Volvo by $5 a month.
muchgreaterthanG_O_D@reddit
Agreed. 4 seems easy. I mean gas is already 50% more expensive than my estimate, if you're using non-trumpian math.
Snoo93079@reddit
And the EVs are much better to drive.
_Age_Sex_Location_@reddit
To each their own but I'd take just about any manual performance vehicle from 30 years ago by that definition.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
While we're playing in lala land I'll take a brand new e46
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Yea people forget making a low end car electric is like bumping it up a whole class
xlb250@reddit
My Ioniq 5 still feels like an economy car TBH. There is significantly more NVH than the iX.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Did you do the hatch door fix? That makes a world of difference
xlb250@reddit
I wouldn’t say there’s much difference for commute. Have an iX and Ioniq 5 currently. Last rental cars were Camry, RAV4, and X3.
Snoo93079@reddit
You do realize that most people don't drive sports cars, right?
xlb250@reddit
Where did I mention sports cars?
Snoo93079@reddit
"If driving experience was the priority, then for me it is ICE 100%. l'd get a GR Corolla, Elantra N, Civic Type R, or Integra Type S for four seats, four doors, and similar budget."
cubs223425@reddit
That's just an opinion. Having had to drive the Q8 e-tron, I don't agree at all, even compared to other big SUVs.
Snoo93079@reddit
You'd rather drive a Tuscon over an iconic 5, a equinox over an equinox ev, and a Camry over a model 3?
no_f-s_given@reddit
i’d much rather drive a camry than a model 3, especially now that all Camry’s are hybrid getting 46+ mpg.
i owned a 3 and the ride was crap, the interior was loud, the glass roof got super hot in summer, and all controls being on the screen got annoying. plus the insurance was expensive af.
Snoo93079@reddit
What year was your model 3? I had a 2023 and it was sooo much more fun to drive than any sedan I've ever driven
no_f-s_given@reddit
i agree the 3 was fun to drive. that was never the problem. it was all the other stuff that bugged me over time.
Snoo93079@reddit
What year?
icona_@reddit
was it before the 3 refresh?
strongmanass@reddit
Specifically the three the person you replied to mentioned. Of those three pairs I've only driven the Ioniq 5 and Tucson, but the Ioniq 5 is at least an order of magnitude better to drive. If I had to choose between the two the price delta would have to be more than 50% for me to start even considering the Tucson.
BMWbill@reddit
It’s pretty much everyone’s opinion though. For a daily commuter car at least
dragonbrg95@reddit
The Equinox ev is way way better than the gas Equinox.
Down in the econobox or consumer car space the EVs drive a lot better.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
As if msrp for a chevy means anything
xlb250@reddit
True
When I bought a Camaro it was 20% below MSRP.
But the article used MSRP so that’s what I went with
muchgreaterthanG_O_D@reddit
If you keep your car for 6 ish years youll have made your money back.
These calculations were quick and based off estimates to make kr easy for me, using the best mpg for gas and the lowest for ev and roughly the price of each car that i found from a quick Google search.
Assuming you drive 10k miles a year: Ev equinox- 28k near me- gonna use 96 mpge Gas equinox- 22k near me- gonna use 27mpg
Ev- 10000 miles ÷96 mpge= 104.17 x $2.00 (im using a way higher price per kw than what is by me)= $208.34 yearly electric cost cost
Gas- 10000 mi ÷ 27 mpg= 370.37 ×$3.00 (super low gas cost estimate)= $1111.11 yearly gas cost cost
So even with super expensive electric relative to super cheap gas prices it takes 6 years. With higher gas cost and cheaper electricity it will be even quicker until the ev is cheaper.
cheeseshcripes@reddit
And now add in brakes and oil changes, and then maybe add in all the fuel engine maintenance that people are supposed to do but don't, air filters, coolant changes, brake fluid changes, transmission fluid changes.
muchgreaterthanG_O_D@reddit
Yeah i wasn't even thing about that but, youre right, its even more.
markeydarkey2@reddit
If you look at actual listings both of these examples are priced in-line with their ICEV counterparts.
Facts_pls@reddit
That's an easy recoup once you factor in the running and maintenance cost.
Plus EVs get stolen a lot less so insurance cost is a lot lower.
Thebrianeffect@reddit
Right, but they are significantly cheaper to operate and maintain so I am ok with higher up front costs. They will not be cheaper than gas for awhile, and that is ok. It’s an investment.
familyguy20@reddit
Huh funny how Tesla has to strip down their model 3 to get it cheap whereas Hyundai and such just offer the same model but cheaper…🤦♂️
Thebrianeffect@reddit
Teslas are much better cars though. And their network makes it a much better product as well.
no_f-s_given@reddit
lol no. i owned a 3. the other makes have caught up or surpassed Tesla in many areas.
hell Tesla even put lane keep assist behind a paywall now where it’s standard on the others.
Thebrianeffect@reddit
I own a Y and test drove a bunch of other evs. Teslas are still the best bang for your buck and it’s not close. You can get better ones like a rivian or lucid but they are much more money.
no_f-s_given@reddit
yea, sure, it totally comes down to a matter of opinion. i owned a model 3.
i prefer physical controls for all of the key functions in a car. i like a smoother ride and quieter interior, especially on highway and bumpy roads. i like not paying for lane keep assist. i like having the option to close a thick built in shade for a panoramic roof that gets hot af in the summer. i prefer regular door handles instead of the Tesla ones. i like using carplay.
for me, other brands have surpassed Tesla in bang for buck in what I am looking for.
Thebrianeffect@reddit
I suppose. But Tesla is also rated higher in almost every review so the data also shows that Tesla is overall better. Opinions can vary, but data doesn’t lie.
hutacars@reddit
Odd to bring up reviews right before this sentence. What are reviews but collections of opinions?
Thebrianeffect@reddit
By professionals that rate cars as a job. And most of them agree Tesla is best.
hutacars@reddit
Still an opinion, not data.
maximus91@reddit
Better tech, sure but Idk about better cars overall.
no_f-s_given@reddit
the “better tech” is the FSD that, while improving, is like 10 years late at this point.
they paywalled lane keep assist, so any standard Tesla without FSD is actually behind on tech. moving most physical controls to a screen is not better tech. really what do they have that is better in 2026?
Logitech4873@reddit
Not true. Regular autopilot is still available for me.
no_f-s_given@reddit
it is true. new purchases are paywalled
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/01/tesla-wants-recurring-revenue-discontinues-autopilot-in-favor-of-fsd/
Logitech4873@reddit
I just checked Teslas' website. Even on the base Model 3 with RWD and steel rims, autopilot is clearly listed as included.
I think what you're talking about is region specific.
https://www.tesla.com/no_no/model3/design#overview
no_f-s_given@reddit
well, it’s 100% gone in North America at the very least.
so revised statement: in markets where lane keep has been removed, they are lacking a basic tech that most manufacturers provide standard on a lot of cars.
_FUCKTHENAZIADMINS_@reddit
The in car route planner and navigation on the Model 3 is years ahead of the new for 2026 Hyundai solution
cubs223425@reddit
How is this blasphemy? The main criticisms have been worse range, poor charging networks, and higher prices. No one here was saying they didn't want these things to improve, this is doing what we've been asking for.
Personal_Smurf@reddit
The blasphemy is that government subsidies can artificially increase prices, something Reddit is generally not willing to admit.
Anal_Bleeds_25@reddit
Shit, I don't care about high range. 100 miles is plenty for me so long as I can recharge it on 240v in less than 8 hours every night. Just give me an affordable EV that actually looks good, instead of like an egg (Bolt) or Lil Tykes toy (Leaf). Just make a compact or subcompact EV that's 25 grand or less, sporty, and make it look like an Audi A3 and take my money, damn the range.
Srtviper@reddit
Sounds like you should get a used e-golf. Those suckers are like 8K these days.
_FUCKTHENAZIADMINS_@reddit
Except for the 8.5-9 second 0-60
Srtviper@reddit
Wow I didn't realize it was so slow. I knew it was a bad car but damn that's weak.
wtfduud@reddit
If it was a diesel car, we'd be saying 8.5 sec 0-60 is decent.
Srtviper@reddit
8.5 seconds to 60 is slow as hell for any modern car, which is one of the many reasons I would never buy a diesel. If I'm going to buy an ice car it better be fun or what's the point?
_FUCKTHENAZIADMINS_@reddit
Fair enough lmao, I only pointed it out because the original commenter said 6 second 0-60 was part of their criteria
Srtviper@reddit
Never said it was a good car, it is not
moonRekt@reddit
I’m skeptical of “high range”. The highest range models get ~250 miles of real world highway range maybe. And they aren’t cheap. Putting “high range” and “cheap” in same sentence annoys me as much as manufacturers claiming a 0-60 time of a fully charged battery while bragging about a charging curve below 20%.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
This guys stuck in 2019 lol
moonRekt@reddit
Ours is a 2022 so not really, if you drive 80mph with traffic range drops like a rock
OkSchool619@reddit
Why is this sub so stupid. Tesla makes the most cost effective ev. Its the model
Golden-IV@reddit
They definitely don't there is a reason why their market share is falling outside of the USA as Chinese EVs bring much needed competition and even have offerings in segments Tesla and other western automakers don't even have vehicles in or their offerings are extremely expensive for that segment
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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OkSchool619@reddit
Show me a pic of your Chinese ev. I'll wait.
Golden-IV@reddit
I am looking into car ownership and just like most young adults in my country where petrol is expensive as hell compared to the average income we are looking at EVs, the two countries dominating the market here for EVs are China and South Korea due to their competitive pricing, features and in terms of Major brands like BYD long warranties
OkSchool619@reddit
Wow 2 paragraps AND an edit. I'll skip your bs and assume you said, im correct.
Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit
It really just makes sense at this point. Of course they're going to get better, because a lot of the early issues are being tackled. Add in the fact that gas and oil are high as giraffe ass right now.
flyingghost@reddit
Chinese competition is doing wonders to push traditional automakers to release affordable EVs with good range.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
Meanwhile, 35k EUR ID.Polo:
Dan6erbond2@reddit
That's a perfectly fine price for an upper market Golf-class vehicle now that the ID.Polo is bigger, it isn't meant to be the cheapest economy car. And it's European pricing.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
ID.Polo is Polo sized (shocking, I know), and that much money for a subcompact isn't fine. The actual EV equivalent of Golf is ID.3, and the cheapest trim of that, with 30 kilometers less range, is also 34k EUR.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
I guess it depends on which measurements you're using. The 2021 Polo is 1751mm wide, the 2019 Golf 1789mm, the ID.Polo 1816mm.
As for length the 2021 Polo is 4074mm, the 2019 Golf 4284mm and the ID.Polo 4053mm.
So it's a bit shorter but also a decent bit wider, I found those differences in width to make a bigger difference in the city than the length. When choosing our city car we focused on width and got the Alfa Romeo Junior Elettrica, it is extremely easy to park and still feels spacious inside, not as cramped as smaller hatchbacks. I bet that's how the ID.Polo feels inside, too, given its electric packaging. And that's what you pay for.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
What you pay for is Volkswagen's inability to make a truly affordable EV. As you said, the more spacious interior is inherent to a shift to an EV, so it would happen regardless if ID.Polo was 25 or 35k. Somehow they managed to make a "cheap" EV that barely any cheaper than a car class above it.
lumpialarry@reddit
You mean the chinese cars no North American market car is competing with?
ayyitzTwocatZ@reddit
Canada is opening its market to Chinese cars. Limited brands (BYD, Chery, Geely) and 40k sales cap though.
flyingghost@reddit
TIL NA is the only car market in the world.
lumpialarry@reddit
NA is the market the article is talking about.
flyingghost@reddit
And NA market is affected by markets around the world.
Bored__Lord@reddit
Impossible to find a post in r/cars without bots circle jerking about China.
This has been the stated plan for American car companies before China built a single EV. Please stop.
Does_Not_Use_Clothes@reddit
It’s been weird to see this subreddit go from car enthusiasts to china praising ev fans over the past few years. It wasn’t that many years ago tha this place was completely different.
Bored__Lord@reddit
It’s mostly bots I think. Or at least it started that way. They realized how easy it is to make Americans like China by spreading propaganda on Reddit.
Same idea as America dropping XXL condoms on communist countries during the cold war.
HoldingForGenova@reddit
It's not "mostly bots." It's just the folks who care about cars getting better, and pushing the tech forward. US manufacturers (the traditional ones) just aren't doing that. For folks who value a V8 over a more powerful and more efficient V6, that won't matter. For folks who value speed, design, and technical advancement, there's obviously going to be a broad interest in those areas - and right now, Chinese companies are dominating those areas. You don't have to like china to acknowledge that Chinese EVs are 5-7 years ahead of anyone else right now.
But having been in this sub for over 15 years across four usernames, let me reiterate what we all acknowledge: the older crowd in this sub (manual, brown wagon, naturally aspirated, V8) doesn't reflect the interests of GenZ or younger, and they're showing up here now too. We used to comment on articles that they had no interest in cars, or driving. Now they do, but their interests are in EVs.
so tl;dr - it's not bots, it's just younger folks coming in and not reflecting the interests of the older crowd. Get used to it; it's only going to accelerate (pun intended.)
Bored__Lord@reddit
This is actually exactly my point that the bots lead to real people believing it. US manufacturers are on par with China. It just isn’t Ford or Chevy, it’s Lucid and Rivian. Lucid has battery tech better than BYD and both companies have long-range cars under 50k coming out this year. Bots suppress good news about American EVs and spread good news about China to make you think China is amazing.
The “cheap” EVs aren’t actually any cheaper. They’re cheaper if you do a straight dollar to yuan conversion but that isn’t how anything actually works. You would have to import or set up a factory, and even if tariffs were $0, this would add 20-30% to the price, and bring Chinese EVs in line with the prices of Lucid or Rivian. Tesla manufactures in both the US and China, so has no tariffs in either place, yet their cars cost 20-30% more in the US.
Yes, things are expensive, and it sucks. But you aren’t going to find solutions to that problem on Reddit.
HoldingForGenova@reddit
I mean, I'm a shareholder of both Lucid and Rivian, but even as a huge fan of them both (I maintain Lucid is the best-driving American or European EV by far) I would disagree that "Lucid has battery tech better than BYD" I still think that American and European EVs are 5-7 years behind Chinese companies. And no bot got me to believe that - my heavy research for personal investments did.
Does_Not_Use_Clothes@reddit
I don’t think there’s a lot of Gen Z here they don’t care about cars. People into electric cars don’t really care about cars to go to a subreddit about it. It’s just enthusiasts and there are very few electric car enthusiasts. So it’s weird this enthusiast subreddit is so much about electric Chinese vehicles.
HoldingForGenova@reddit
This is such a weird comment.
"Gen Z don’t care about cars" is about seven years out of date. Ownership and interest is almost exactly that of millennials.
"People into electric cars don’t really care about cars to go to a subreddit about it." is just ... wrong? And easily disproven entirely by the reality that there are multiple big subs broadly about EVs, or specific to EV manufacturers. So if people into electric cars don't care enough to go to a subreddit, then how are there millions of people on ev subreddits?
"It’s just enthusiasts and there are very few electric car enthusiasts." Meanwhile you go to any real gathering like the Petersen drive-ins or any cars and coffee, and there are plenty of EVs, to say nothing of how one of the two fastest growing EV categories is "EVs that prioritize driving experience" like the N line at Kia/Hyundai or the entire redesign of the BMW Neue Klasse EVs coming out. Strange how there are very few electric car enthusiasts except for the millions of vocal electric car enthusiasts.
I'm genuinely not sure how you could have been further away from the modern reality of the automotive enthusiast landscape. I think you're just in a personal bubble where "cars" have to equal "gas" so anything moving electrons isn't a "real" car and therefore "not real" enthusiasm.
And lest you think I'm biased here, I own four cars, none of which are EVs, and three of which would fall firmly into the "enthusiast" category: A Giulia Quadrifoglio (my daily), a 992.1 Turbo S, and an ND Miata. But I am looking forward to owning a Rivian 3X, and whatever the Audi Concept C ends up being called.
flyingghost@reddit
Lol. I'm sure US automakers planned to let others take the lead on EVs.
Facts_pls@reddit
Stated plan... Sure. In a country where car prices are rising every year...
It just so happens that none of those shower up until the Chinese threat became a thing.
ZetaM3@reddit
I love China ❤️
_Age_Sex_Location_@reddit
It only makes sense if you own property and can charge at home.
Logitech4873@reddit
You don't need to own a property to charge "at home". You can charge at apartments.
_Age_Sex_Location_@reddit
Maybe. Our apartment building has two allotted charging spots and a parking spot is first-come first-serve at nearly $200 a month.
Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit
It also hinges on how much EV infrastructure is in your area. If you can charge it in places other than your home or apartment parking, it could still work. But that's location dependent obviously.
_Age_Sex_Location_@reddit
Right, though I've noticed that's often in short supply and convenience is arguably paramount.
dman928@reddit
I don’t think A giraffes ass is that high. With the whole long neck thing
Gas prices are higher than Snoop dog on 4/20
Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit
That's the PG-13 version of the phrase. 'High as giraffe ass' is I mean.
High like Keith Richards. High as a Georgia Pine. High like the national debt.
Babydanho@reddit
I was just curious about how high a giraffes ass would be on average so I had to google it. 6 feet apparently. Probably a useless fact but I’m now satisfied
dman928@reddit
I appreciate the research.
Icy_Bake9085@reddit
Ehh I've seen places lose power in areas because to many EVs on a almost 100 year old electrical grid that has had piss poor bare bottom of the barrel maintenance so I think electric is still just a trend like 100 years ago just now we have big money backing it to try to force it
masterventris@reddit
Really? Where are these places? Got a link?
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Crickets of course
Icy_Bake9085@reddit
No not crickets just some people have lives outside of this app so don't jump to respond immediately
Icy_Bake9085@reddit
Don't have links because it's be a year or so since I've seen the articles but I know California at one point was having issues with this
Logitech4873@reddit
Any examples?
ApprehensiveSize7662@reddit
The Equinox getting 2nd place on this list probably would've been a good sign for the US market if the US bev market didn't collapse completely.
Chevrolet Equinox EV $36,800 319 mi. 8.7 mi per $1k
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
Im seeing them less than 30k...
MangoAtrocity@reddit
Anyone have a non-paywall link?
eliav_blom121@reddit
It’s wild how battery tech is letting EVs go further without the price tag being through the roof. If this keeps up, driving electric could actually make sense for more people soon.
Srtviper@reddit
Honestly it already makes sense for anyone who can charge at home and has a daily commute under 300 miles.
biggsteve81@reddit
Your daily commute needs to be under 200 miles, or else you will struggle in cold weather and not be able to run any errands after work.
beamdriver@reddit
If your daily commute is over 200 miles, running costs for an ICE vehicle would be quite high.
That's around $20 a day in gas, even if you have a Prius. Plus oil changes almost every month and so on.
_Age_Sex_Location_@reddit
At that point you're living in your car and should just get a van.
Simon_787@reddit
Do people actually commute that far or is this a joke?
I don't understand america.
WhippersnapperUT99@reddit
Some people do, but it's just a small amount of people.
I've known country folk who lived in rural areas where the cost of housing is low who would drive into the cities for work because no decent jobs were available in their rural areas. There are also people who work in big cities in high cost of living areas and made the decision to live further out and have long commutes because the price of home ownership and housing closer in is ridiculous. You can also have situations where spouses have good jobs in different cities and one ends up having a long commute ("two body problem").
TheLoneStarResident@reddit
It’s a joke.
Past-Acanthaceae862@reddit
Full stop. If you're commuting over 200 miles a day reconsider your life choices.
Srtviper@reddit
That's true depending on where you live and what car you buy. I live in Florida so I don't have to worry about the cold, but I'd be surprised if a Lucid Air Grand Touring couldn't make it 300 miles in the below freezing weather.
Spud_Rancher@reddit
We’re eyeing a move to SoCal in the next few years. I will absolutely be having a home charger and EV to take advantage of the HOV lanes.
bruddahmacnut@reddit
https://archive.is/wm9N6
Chungallo@reddit
Just what I was looking for, thanks!
costafilh0@reddit
We now need wireless charging in all cars.
I really like what Porsche did with the new Cayenne.
For daily use, basically forgetting that fuel/energy consumption exists, with wireless charging and great range, and simply using the car, should greatly increase practicality and comfort.
LarryGergich@reddit
Completely disagree. Wireless charging is a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist. It takes 2 seconds to plug in. Meanwhile wireless charging is just throwing away 10%+ of your electricity.
strongmanass@reddit
I'd like wireless charging. It's not about the time it takes to plug in. It's the convenience of not having to deal with cables at all. And like the other poster said, the efficiency of Porsche's system is ~3-5% less than L2 charging, which is a cost I'd be willing to pay.
bigxie@reddit
Porsche's wireless charging implementation is actually over 90% efficient and pretty much on par with wired L2 charging, so efficiency is not the issue. But there is nearly $10k of upfront cost for the charger and the receiver in the car. It's a great proof of concept and functional feature for early adopters, time will tell if the tech trickles down and cost scales if it becomes widely adopted.
Srtviper@reddit
Idk wireless charging feels like a gimmick for rich people who's butler is to busy to take 5 seconds to plug in their car.
mdp300@reddit
Wireless charging is nice to have but it's not a must-have. And it's kind of fiddly, you have to put the phone on just the right spot.
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
Model 3 came out in 2017 with well over two hundred miles of range and was $44k-7.5k ev incentive. 2019 it became even cheaper.
What the fuck are they even talking about. They had to pull the mini EV and the e-Golf to make the graph? Those are shit EVs and were shit EVs out of the gate. Plop a Model 3 onto that graph and the whole article falls apart.
flapsmcgee@reddit
Also the Chevy Bolt came out in 2016 with 238 miles of range for $37k before tax credits.
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
Should look at leasing EVs. Equinox EVs are bloody cheap. A well equipped LT2 is only $33k with discounts. Personally I might consider a Ioniq 6 N if we have a garage ever...