The Rivian R2 Costs Half As Much To Build As The R1S. Here's How Rivian Did It
Posted by KeyboardGunner@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 204 comments
Posted by KeyboardGunner@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 204 comments
ProfessorCaptain@reddit
But we hate it cause it doesn’t have CarPlay right guys?
beardedbast3rd@reddit
I hate that it doesn’t have CarPlay. But I don’t hate the vehicle itself.
CarPlay is however a major factor in my purchasing decision. These things have a bit of an uphill battle versus other evs that come equipped.
aka_mank@reddit
I trust modern tech companies (Rivian, Tesla) to emulate the CarPlay experience more than I trust GM and the like.
hutacars@reddit
None of them do. With Carplay I can load up a series of navigation destinations on my computer, send them to my phone, and start navigating to them as soon as I get in my car. With my Tesla I cannot.
They also only support apps they feel like, so if your favorite eBook app or music playing app or navigation app (so, all of them) isn't supported, too bad, get fucked, use Bluetooth and a phone mount.
Oh, and if you DO want to use the inbuilt apps, you're paying an extra cellular subscription for that. Never mind that you already pay for one for your phone which can do everything the inbuilt apps can, plus more.
It's a shit experience versus CP/AA.
_NathanialHornblower@reddit
You can enter destinations in Google Maps, send those directions to your phone, and then send them to your Tesla.
Fozzymandius@reddit
I personally don’t have an issue with Bluetooth for book apps and don’t know why I’d need a phone mount for it.
But to your other point I can send instructions to my Rivian from my phone and do it quite frequently. It’s hardly something that’s necessary but if I look up a spot on maps I can share to my Rivian right away.
Generally the experience is far better than when I have to deal with rentals that use CarPlay.
hutacars@reddit
Often the inbuilt controls will skip forward/backwards the entire chapter (or sometimes book), but usually I want them to skip forward/backwards 5-10 seconds. So you have to control it directly from your phone to accomplish this, whereas the Carplay app has the right buttons.
You can send a series of destinations to your Rivian? I can only do one at a time with my Tesla, which is inferior to what I can do with Carplay.
I'll admit I have minimal seat time in Rivians, and even less time deep diving into the infotainment system, but I would be shocked if they support ABRP, Teams, Libby, YouTube Music, Waze, and so on the way Carplay does.
Fozzymandius@reddit
I mean you’re right it won’t have the same controls built in on all of them but I generally find that I still enjoy being in my rivian more than whenever I use CarPlay, and I have a Subaru with a CarPlay head unit that I just don’t use.
Now, yes I can send a full trip to my rivian from Google Maps on my phone. Unfortunately that’s the only real option. However… ABRP is owned by rivian and is tokenized so you can log in on your rivian account and get full live car stats on the website. This is the same information that your rivian will use to calculate your route even if you send the Google Maps trip.
And from there, rivian has full Google Maps api access so when I search for restaurants or anything else along my route I get the Google Maps results and their full page with pics, how busy they are, etc.
So it isn’t perfect, it doesn’t let you do everything that you could do with CarPlay, but it’s essentially the car equivalent to Apples walled garden. It works extremely well on its own, as long as you are willing to accept the way it works.
aka_mank@reddit
Yes, they are not for power users.
runbrap@reddit
What was their reasoning to not include it? It’s such a strong part of people’s purchasing decision.
HuskyLemons@reddit
So they can sell subscriptions
iamr3d88@reddit
Cant sell a subscription if they dont sell the car in the first place.
hutacars@reddit
And collect/sell data!
Erlend05@reddit
As long as it has bluetooth or minijack i dont really care
Cranjesmcbasketball1@reddit
Absolutely, it isnt not offering carplay or android auto, it's the fact that I have to pay a subscription service to get data from them even though I already have unlimited data on my phone, which I pay for. Fuck that.
Additional-Teach-970@reddit
EVPlay exists. For $350 you can have CarPlay or AA in very native experience.
Cranjesmcbasketball1@reddit
That's cool someone came up with something but it's still $350 that I have to pay when it should just come with the car.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Correct! And for lots of other reasons like their poor service model, shitty interiors, stupid door handles, etc
jkggwp@reddit
What we really want to know is how China does it. By the time Rivian sells these cars overseas, China would be selling flying cars at this rate
SpacklingCumFart@reddit
72 hours a week at 7 bucks an hour.
Robbbbbbbbb@reddit
Average fully burdened cost for BYD's workers in 2025 was 147,000 CNY ($21,400).
So like... $10.25? Probably closer to $7 after accounting for benefits/etc realized in the cost.
K_R_A_K_E_N_540@reddit
Labour is a small part of a car's total cost.
iluvreddit@reddit
No, it's not. Assembly is a small part of the car's total cost. Labor affects the price of every part and even the building construction and maintenance. Not to mention the huge R&D and testing costs.
PRSArchon@reddit
Not if you consider their suppliers and R&D are also low wage.
Clover-kun@reddit
BYD is vertically integrated and makes almost all of their parts with their highly automated factories
PRSArchon@reddit
And for parts you need raw materials, and guess where that raw material comes from? Cheap chinese labor.
Clover-kun@reddit
Chinese labour isn't all that cheap anymore lol, it's why they've been off shoring a lot of stuff to Africa and Pakistan, labour is cheaper there. And let's not pretend America doesn't have problems with slave labour and prison camps either. They're even trying to build a wall to keep undesirables out, some sort of "great wall", if you will
PRSArchon@reddit
It is not the cheapest, but its still 4x cheaper than a western country. Lets not pretend a factor 4 is not cheap.
Clover-kun@reddit
You know what's even cheaper than Chinese labour costs? Mexican labour costs. Americans don't seem to make anywhere near as much of a stink about that.
PRSArchon@reddit
Im not american, what is the point you are trying to make? Mexico doesnt have all the (raw) material supplychain options which China does.
AmericanExcellence@reddit
i just read a pretty thorough breakdown of the chinese cost advantage, and it almost all comes down to "supply chain integration" and cheap engineers.
cubs223425@reddit
Part of the supply chain integration comes from how much supply chain manufacturing was relocated to China because of cheaper labor costs.
Trollygag@reddit
Assembly is a small part of the car's total cost.
Labor is the major cost of all goods and materials. It drives the price of rubber, the price of steel, the price of raw materials.
Everything going into the materials and production is cost pressured by the $2.50-3/hr average labor rate in China. Unless workers in Europe/Americas are willing to work for $2.50-3/hr and 70+ hour weeks to make ends meet, they will never compete on price.
Trollygag@reddit
They don't work 40 hour weeks, they are working 886 (72 hrs/week), of which they are SUPPOSED to get overtime.
So their average pay is more like $5.75/hr.
MSTmatt@reddit
As opposed to the great working conditions in Mexico or Alabama?
Mr_Chode_Shaver@reddit
Yeah. Working anywhere legally operating in Alabama would be like a paradise to most production line workers in mainland China.
Defreshs10@reddit
When is the last time you saw a production line in China?
Mr_Chode_Shaver@reddit
March 2023. Visiting for a cousins wedding to the daughter of the owner of a producer of white label medical aids/devices. When was the last time you did?
ivanevenstar@reddit
What an ignorant and first-world-privileged take. Alabama has got its issues, but comparing working conditions at a likely unionized auto plant there vs. a factory in China is absurd.
victorinseattle@reddit
Alabama auto plants aren’t unionized. They’re anti union. Chinese plants are unionized, but the plant is so automation and robotics driven that there are very few employees.
ivanevenstar@reddit
Good catch. Sure, for example the Alabama Honda factory isn’t unionized, but work there for a while and you get 40 hour work weeks making 40-50 bucks an hour. Saying that’s in the same solar system as working conditions in China is wild.
TheLoneStarResident@reddit
$4,900+ per month after taxes isn’t bad at all.
The bigger issue is being bored doing the same thing everyday.
Emotional_Goal9525@reddit
It is in the US, especially if you don't get employer health insurance.
victorinseattle@reddit
I’ve visited a ton of factories all over the world. I was just at a Chinese factory this week. Working conditions these days aren’t that different to be honest.
In fact. Between automotive factories, I would say Chinese factories are largely the same labor conditions as a US/European factory these days.
I would say that the key difference is that Chinese factories are “dark”, which means they use so much more automation and robots. Maybe only 1/10 to 1/3 the # of line workers an equivalent US factory would have?
truthlesshunter@reddit
They make 40-50 yuan in a day. Totally comparable.
Betelgeusetimes3@reddit
Imagine thinking working in Alabama is worse or comparable to mainland China. That’s pretty ill-informed.
HulksInvinciblePants@reddit
It’s all a matter of “what parts”.
ca2mt@reddit
Echo chamber gonna echo chamber.
Vandrel@reddit
There are nets in place at some Chinese factories because people kept attempting suicide by jumping off the roof.
ca2mt@reddit
Exactly, they’re always thinking of their workers. Here, we’d just watch em hit the ground!
/s
-GenlyAI-@reddit
Typical Hyundai owner
mattyice18@reddit
Peak Reddit.
endlessnamelesskat@reddit
Pseudo slave labor and government subsidies. Asking why Chinese cars are so cheap is like asking why Americans use high fructose corn syrup instead of regular sugar.
You can force any industry to be really cheap if you use government money to put your finger on the scale
TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
Subsidy
questionname@reddit
This is the answer
cubs223425@reddit
And yet when US subsidies were given to EV purchases, it we got higher EV prices that came down once the subsidies ended. They weren't using it to make the vehicles more affordable to drive adoption, they were doing it to improve margins for teh business.
Hegemonicplatypus@reddit
China’s subsidization is occurring further upstream in that the mining, steel, and electricity infrastructure is owned by the state. You can read the Wikipedia article on “commanding heights” as it pertains to the CCP’s perspective on where they should be involved in the production supply chain.
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dakta@reddit
They've been at it for decades, investing in their domestic industries and coordinating development. It's not sorcery, it's just moderately more centralized planning than we're used to.
cubs223425@reddit
Most mild understatement of the day.
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element515@reddit
Yeah, government putting money into tech they want to advance and you get this. They leapfrogged the rest of the world in like 10 years
BadMofoWallet@reddit
Cheap labor, government sponsored manufacturing
markyymark13@reddit
People keep bringing up slave labor like this is the 1990s and you’re buying a pair of sneakers. In reality labor in China has gotten much more expensive which is why manufacturing is moving south. Furthermore the answer is that these companies are vertically integrated. BYD being one of the biggest battery manufacturers has major benefits in keeping costs down for example, when a company isn’t as vertically integrated, it doesn’t matter as much when all the parts you need to make a car are manufactured next door.
Trollygag@reddit
It has gone from 20 cents/hr to $2.50/hr between 1995 and today.
WhIle a huge increase, it is still far below the minimum wages in any western country. Like 1/8th of the minimum wage in Germany.
AmericanExcellence@reddit
it's not labor costs on the low end that depress prices. engineers are a dime a dozen in china.
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
It can be both. BYD's labor costs are simply far cheaper than labor in any North American or European auto factory.
markyymark13@reddit
Yeah it for sure can, but I think people get way too hung up on just blaming "slave labor" when in reality lower raw material costs, automation, vertical integration and supply chain efficiencies play a much larger role.
abattlescar@reddit
But this is r/cars, we want to be racist >:(
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
To be clear, this isn’t all Chinese people failure which is same Russian people. Geopolitical is really main issue.
stinger_02in@reddit
Zero labor rights.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
The Chinese government has heavily subsidized their EV industry and it's been effective. Where the US subsidized oil/nat gas/farm with very little regulation on how it's used, the Chinese gov was actively involved.
BrownGhost10@reddit
US subsidies doesn’t help in making things cheaper, just pads profits for companies.
PEEWUN@reddit
China is using their government to accelerate and subsidize EV production.
timberdoodle3000@reddit
Parts from Xinjiang slave labor
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
China has stopped strong incentives in their domestic automakers, you probably wouldn’t see they having price advantage. Besides, Chinese car market will go more bloody, we continue to see more local automakers out of business.
> China would be selling flying cars at this rate
Highly doubt flying car becomes a thing.
Torczyner@reddit
No worker rights and 3rd world wages is a good start. Then some government subsidy and they'll be there.
AttorneyAdvice@reddit
so america + government subsidies is china? must be nice
Kurrumiau@reddit
Their lines are almost fully automated, lower cost for energy and raw materials, supply chain vertically integrated, couple of bucks in subsidies...
Alive_Internet@reddit
A combination of government subsidies and “borrowing” American IP. Companies like Rivian can’t match those prices because they actually need to do their own R&D and invent things.
DredgenCyka@reddit
Government subsidies, Slave Labor, lack of workers safety, lack of workers rights like long grueling hours.
As a result you get some really nice luxury cars costing the same as a base honda civic here in the states.
3rdreprieve@reddit
A fuckton of automation plus awful wages.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
Government subsidies and cost of labor.
Nikolis@reddit
Slave labor
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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JProhaska3@reddit
Only part I’m disappointed about is losing the double wishbone, but I understand why
Cessnaporsche01@reddit
People always act like McPherson suspension is such a downgrade from double wishbone, while Porsche was making world class handling out of them all the way up to 2020. And for a theoretically off-road vehicle, McPherson offers much more droop and fewer points of failure compared to double wishbone
SarcasticOptimist@reddit
Iirc wasn't this the change between the GE and GK Honda Fits? The R1 suspension felt too harsh when I test drove it in any mode but soft.
JProhaska3@reddit
I’m not saying MacPherson is bad, but with the same LOE put into MacPherson vs double wishbone, the double wishbone will be the better handling car (on road) and the mass market of people aren’t even touching a dirt road with these.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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AwesomeBantha@reddit
Not true. SUVs and CUVs are often easier to get into and out of, offer a more upright seating position, CUVs can be shorter because of the aforementioned upright seating position. With EVs, the center of gravity is really low, even in SUVs/CUVs.
Most station wagons and minivans have surprisingly large footprints.
cubs223425@reddit
And ride height for visibility, higher point of entry (for fat people who think a car is difficult to exit), ground clearance for sloped driveways, parking lots, and other roadways, and the typically larger interior volume for storage. Some are also built to support towing better than car-based variants.
Cessnaporsche01@reddit
First 2 points I'll give you
The only cars that lack clearance for even the most extreme kerbs and sloped driveways are very low sports cars, though. Even most sports cars are perfectly fine with some pretty extreme terrain. My old 986 did quite a bit of adventuring.
No same-platform SUV has more useful space than its non-lifted counterpart, with many getting less thanks to larger wheel wells to accommodate bigger tires and suspension, and any towing related features (excepting possible heavier suspension) couldn't be applied to the car version.
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BWFTW@reddit
Does the 911 not still use mcpherson fronts? The gt3 got double wishbone for 992, but I thought non gt 911s still used mcpherson. Also didn't the 718 / 982 use mcpherson on all 4 corners? That was only discontinued a few months ago.
Cessnaporsche01@reddit
I haven't been under any of the newer cars, but you may be right. The old Boxster/Caymans did have all MacPherson strut setups
zboarderz@reddit
What did it move to? The classic McPherson strut?
ThetaGrim@reddit
Yea, lost the air suspension. Multi link and McPhersons.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
No other $45K EV has air suspension, including the Model Y they're aiming for.
Kurrumiau@reddit
Maybe chinese ones.
Salty-Dog-9398@reddit
Even NIO moved to MacPherson for Onvo to save a bunch of money.
thewheelsgoround@reddit
all Teslas use a double-wishbone setup.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
Which is a moot point, since they're not available in the US and Rivians are not available in China.
DaBanninator@reddit
Teslas have double wishbone even in base trim.
Erlend05@reddit
Yeah thats fine. But double wishbone or multilink wouldve been sweet
Peribangbang@reddit
Very very reasonable tradeoff for the price. Especially for a truck, who cares at under 50k that's reasonable
imightgetdownvoted@reddit
Leaf springs
Spidaaman@reddit
Username checks out at least
vtGaem@reddit
Leaf springs would've been pog
raydialseeker@reddit
No lmao
BetterSite2844@reddit
Wait it has leaf springs????
flyingliz45@reddit
No it’s using McPherson fronts, multi link rears with traditional shock / springs
BetterSite2844@reddit
Cool I thought we were gonna see some Mustang bullshit
BoofMasterQuan2@reddit
Mustang has had coil springs for decades… the corvette on the other hand had leaf springs until 2020
Also, leaf springs are not the alternative to double wishbones… one’s a suspension geometry and the other is the spring component, so clearly you’re ill informed
riverturtle@reddit
Saying the corvette has leaf springs is misleading. It’s a transverse composite mono-leaf spring. Super lightweight and compact and not really worse than using steel coils in any way.
doctorcapslock@reddit
other than the fact that the behaviour of one wheel is influenced by the other
riverturtle@reddit
Ever heard of a sway bar?
doctorcapslock@reddit
hmm... i suppose that kinda influences the other side as well doesn't it
BWFTW@reddit
This comment chain gave me a good chuckle haha
doctorcapslock@reddit
i'm glad my stupidity can be used for good as well hahaha
xrelaht@reddit
Why doesn’t the C8 use it?
AttorneyAdvice@reddit
they realized it sucked
BWFTW@reddit
They actually wanted to use it but couldn't get the packaging to work. The Corvette leaf spring is actually super interesting. Apparently it gave them lots of compliance and comfort without hurting performance to much. At least that's how Corvette engineers talk about it.
zhiryst@reddit
There's an engine in the way now.
BoofMasterQuan2@reddit
Sure, but still related to leaf springs more than a mustang
byrp@reddit
Go Panhard or go Panhome.
Tangled2@reddit
None of these have a solid rear axel.
elementfx2000@reddit
That's a shame. Makes sense, but still a shame.
Occhrome@reddit
Wagon wheels
victorinseattle@reddit
MacPherson Struts
jca_ftw@reddit
Less to fail! I’ll take an in-active suspension over active ANY DAY!
JProhaska3@reddit
Double wishbone does NOT equal active suspension.
You can have an active MacPherson suspension too, it’s not correlated
executingsalesdaily@reddit
I want Chinese EVs. For the equivalent of a Rivian I would have $55k left over.
antman_mn@reddit
This is such a common sentiment on reddit. What I don't understand how so many people can just be okay with slave labor and bad working conditions if it saves them a bit of money
InternetSolid4166@reddit
I’m even more baffled when those same people follow up that sentence with, “and I would NEVER buy a Tesla.” They’re fine with slave labour but absolutely draw the line at supporting the wrong political party.
hutacars@reddit
It actually makes a lot of sense. The actions of the leader of Tesla affect me (general "me") personally. The actions of the leader of BYD or whatever do not.
jawknee530i@reddit
"why do you care that someone punched your kid in the face when kids are getting punched in the face all over the world?!?!"
That's their thought process.
executingsalesdaily@reddit
At least China isn’t bombing schools and talking bout destroying civilizations. Fk outta here. The US is garbage.
bummerbimmer@reddit
This post made it feel even more ironic than it already was
hutacars@reddit
I'm just stating the thought process, whether you agree with it or not.
bummerbimmer@reddit
I was agreeing with you
guilmon999@reddit
There's plenty of other EVs within the USA market that aren't made by Tesla and don't have slave labor.
GMC: USA
Toyota: Japan
Hyundai: USA and Korea
VW's ID.4: USA
Rivian: USA
Ford: USA
executingsalesdaily@reddit
Americans are truly brainwashed.
leedle1234@reddit
Why are cars the thing to take that stand on though? What about things like clothing, TVs, appliances? There are general "but American" sentiments around those industries, but it doesn't seem nearly as rabid as when people bring up cars.
antman_mn@reddit
I try to buy American as much as possible. If not possible I still avoid Chinese goods. All of my appliances are kitchenaid and Maytag.
Most applications sold in the US are made in America, even ones owned by Chinese companies like GE. So it seems that at least some people care about that.
I'm not sure if it's possible to by an American television. There's Vizio but I don't know where they manufacture
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Yea, when we buyers are poor, who care slave labor life ? We need to save ourselves first. /s
doctorcapslock@reddit
i guess because cars are so much more expensive that suddenly the money saved is worth more than the misery it inflicts on "some random chinese kids"?
Original-Guarantee23@reddit
This isn’t the 1990s china isn’t using slave labor or horrible working conditions. Especially not BYD.
antman_mn@reddit
They do use slave labor. Even byd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Brazil_working_conditions_controversy
hutacars@reddit
Sounds like you do understand.
executingsalesdaily@reddit
Hilarious that people shit on China. So you will buy a car from a fascist white nationalist country that bombs schools in Iran? Get out of virtue signaling.
America is a terrible country and Rivian doesn’t pay its workers enough to buy homes in the area they live.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
They’re all either bots or children. General public isn’t that ignorant.
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Zephyruos@reddit
The real question is,
What is the cost of surprise repairs, like a bumper accident?
CreaminFreeman@reddit
Imagine if a manufacturer made vehicles as easy to fix at home as ‘90s vehicles… I think that could be a large sell point.
jawknee530i@reddit
Bring back Pontiac and the easily replaceable plastic body panels damn it.
CreaminFreeman@reddit
We could use a Saturn that was actually able to follow through on its initial vision
jawknee530i@reddit
I had a Saturn Vue with an ex for a while that she kept after the split and I actually really liked it. Super comfortable and the v6 engine was plenty for the car.
Zephyruos@reddit
Yup but will cut into their profit margen as their profit also includes aftersale services like maintenance and spare parts.
EVs are the closest thing to old times but in a different way in requiring less frequent maintenance (rotate tires, fill water for wipers), granted they might even need more advanced computers to diagnose issues and updates and such.
But I get your point, a simple ICE car to maintain, wonder if they can balance it with today's safety requirements as well as comfort levels.
_ernie@reddit
And how long does it take to complete a repair
Shmokesshweed@reddit
R2T wen
ca2mt@reddit
R2T would be ideal, but Telo Truck might suffice in the meantime.
nomoneyball@reddit
Rivians look pretty good, those Telo trucks might just be the ugliest vehicles I’ve ever seen
Even-Promotion-4024@reddit
I actually kinda dig the Telo, looks like some kinda frontier colony utility vehicle from a sci-fi movie
tablepennywad@reddit
Miev of trucks
ca2mt@reddit
8ft usable bed space with the mid gate down, in the footprint of a 2-door mini cooper. Though I don’t mind how it looks, I’m not sure I’d care even if I did.
penny_squeaks@reddit
My most anticipated EV. I hope they can pull it off.
aHistoryofSmilence@reddit
Great form factor but the price is way too high. Should start around $30-32k.
AttorneyAdvice@reddit
I think they should start at $19k, it would really sell
aMiracleAtJordanHare@reddit
They'd sell even more at $19.99.
ca2mt@reddit
Same. I got to take a ride in it last month and they seemed pretty confident that they’d be able to launch towards the end of the year.
boilermakerteacher@reddit
How about a strut based simplified version of the R1T as the R2. Ditch the air suspension and the gear tunnel and it’s probably right there price wise.
Jah348@reddit
The gear tunnel is way too cool to lose. Imo if they start gradually enshitifying things like that they will just become a Ford lightening and won't be able to compete with the production lines of the mammoth companies.
boilermakerteacher@reddit
Oh I agree it’s too cool to lose. But for an R2T price point it would need to lose complexity (gear tunnel/air suspension/glass roof). Plus it would help set apart the R1T as a flagship.
degggendorf@reddit
R2T would catch my interest, but R3X will catch my dollars
AttorneyAdvice@reddit
my money is on america most likely collapsing on itself before a single R3X comes out
degggendorf@reddit
I bet it's pretty close to even odds at this point
The_Bucket_Of_Truth@reddit
More interested in an R3X. I wasn't impressed with the R1's interior quality for a six figure car but imagine the lower end models may make more sense.
aaffpp@reddit
I'm sure the next version is going to be one half as expensive to manufacture than version R2. New cheaper battery technologies will soon be released, parts will again be made off shore, robotic assembly will be the new norm, sales organizations will evolve to cut overheads, recycling of materials reduce inputs costs... Good bye heavy metal, these new EVs are the way to go...
mustangfan12@reddit
Rivians look cool but they've copied way too many of Tesla's idiotic design decisions like not having buttons or a normal door handle
I think gas cars are better because they make better design choices
MasterofPeridots@reddit
What even is the point of an electric door handle when a manual release is going to be needed?
glasswings363@reddit
There's a new safety feature on some vehicles that monitors your blind spot so you don't door a cyclist. It shouldn't be necessary but too many places insist on "drivers should expect to park here" plus "drivers should expect to pass bicycles here" plus "we don't have the space or money for a separate bike way."
(Delete parking, cars-follow-bikes, separate roads, be honest and ban bikes explicitly instead of accepting injuries - those are the four responsible policy options.)
The correct way to do that feature is to ensure that it can be overridden in an intuitive way, Hold for 5 seconds or pull twice.
The cheap way is electronics and some code.
Similarly, electronic child safety locks unlock themselves after a collision or if there's a battery fire alarm. IMO they should also unlock when the vehicle goes to sleep and someone should figure out how to make baby carriers and car seats talk to the car. Like, I don't hate safety features. Just don't make them dangerous.
But honestly the blind spot detection is an excuse and my parents didn't use kid-locks. We learned how to open a door safely.
w3stvirginia@reddit
That has nothing to do with electric vs gas.
rmaccKC@reddit
That’s not entirely true. Things like flush door handles and solid wheels (hubcaps?) were to increase range via aerodynamics, since the technology is so new, I’m sure the idea was to maximize range at a cost of design for marketing purposes.
So design has a little to do with them.
glasswings363@reddit
Just copy small aircraft then. Cirrus is complicated enough to merit a video but it still opens without battery power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMwawa0jTL8
mustangfan12@reddit
But most new EVs don't have regular door handles or buttons
Most gas cars still have normal door handles
glasswings363@reddit
Of the ten US top-selling battery electric vehicles:
Honda Prologue, Ford Lightning, BMW i4, Chevy Blazer, Nissan Ariya all have normal-ass hardware. It's possible and we may need regulators to intervene.
(Politicians? I will vote for you so hard if you do common sense stuff like this.)
Chevy Equinox: aircraft-style flush handles. Push on the forward part of the handle to pop it out. Normal inside mechanical levers. Not as intuitive as Cessna but not offensively bad.
Ioniq 5: similar except some markets get a variant that is nearly impossible to open from the inside and has literally killed people. Oops.
Tesla Y and 3, Ford This is (Not) a Mustang: mechanical override from inside only. Tesla strays further from God by making the front-door override a different control and hiding the rear inside releases.
Rivian isn't top 10 but copies Tesla.
rabbit__eater@reddit
EU just banned hidden electronic door handles. Any of the next gen EV's intended to be sold in the European market will likely revert to the more conventional design in the US. That definitely doesn't mean the NHTSA will do a damn thing about it here but at least someone is making a stance against them.
Original-Guarantee23@reddit
So tired of EU making stupid ass choices.
ExtruDR@reddit
Lots of gas cars also copied the flush door handle thing. Monkey see, monkey do among the management classes.
Heidenreich12@reddit
Odd comment.
ry1701@reddit
I'll never buy a car without mechanical door handles.
avboden@reddit
If it didn't they'd be going bankrupt already. They lost SO much money on the R1S and still do. People really don't realize how much money Rivian burns. R2 ramp will make or break them.
V8-6-4@reddit
The reduction in part count seems very high. I think that the old design must have had way too many parts and now they have been able to reach the ”normal” number of parts or go a bit under it. If the previous design was engineered to have as few parts as possible they wouldn’t have been able to achieve such reductions. As the previous design was their first and for a low production vehicle it probably prioritized off the self parts, standard hardware and ease of manufacture over low part count.
hutacars@reddit
The Munro teardown essentially describes it as a very expensively-engineered vehicle.
xxyer@reddit
I predict they stop building the R1 models.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Rivian isn’t going to follow Tesla route, so R1 would continue in car market.
ryzenguy111@reddit
Oh yeah because the Lucid Air, Model S, EQS and Taycan are doing so well
redcatmanfoo@reddit
Ah yes the ever popular and famously thriving sedan market
sponge_welder@reddit
Bro everyone on this sub will totally buy one as soon as they're 10 years old, are car companies fucking stupid?
srtftw@reddit
Crazy amount of engineering went into this, awesome to see. Very cool.