A 550 HP Inline-Six From The Charger Could End Up In Alfa's Next Giulia And Stelvio
Posted by FoMoCoNutjob@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 85 comments
Soggy_Cheek_2653@reddit
Please put it in something that doesn't weigh like an apartment block
AlrightAlbatross@reddit
Sounds awesome. The bespoke engine in the Quad was always the scariest part of the car for long term ownership.
Dachshand@reddit
It was also the main thing to buy this car for.
AlrightAlbatross@reddit
For me, the main appeal was the incredible steering and chassis dynamics. The engine was great, but having a high-needs engine didn't make sense for a daily driven sedan. The base Giulia with LSD equipped is also a brilliant car but just slightly low on power and non-defeatable stability control neutered it.
KeyboardGunner@reddit
It seems like a sweet engine, so why not.
Dachshand@reddit
It sounds like shit.
mgobla@reddit
The I6 is designed as a truck engine, for huge and heavy fullsize models, it needs a huge, heavy platform to fit. Instead they should use Maserati's Nettuno engine that fits into MUCH smaller, much lighter cars
kstetter@reddit
You do realise that they're putting the Hurricane in large sedans not Fiat 500s?
mgobla@reddit
Giulia / Stelvio are not the same size as Charger. Giulia / Stelvio are compacts and their buyers do NOT want a large car.
kstetter@reddit
I love compact cars with large engines, the Holden Torana was a small British car with a V8
kstetter@reddit
It's the same size engine as the B58, is the 3 series a huge car?
FentmaxxerActual@reddit
It's 140 lb heavier than the B58, size-wise I don't think it's that much different.
Skensis@reddit
Is it really? That's wild.
mgobla@reddit
Same dispacement does not mean same size overall.
It does not even fit into a Grand Cherokee (that fit a 5.7 V8).
kstetter@reddit
Inline sixes are quite long but I doubt that it wouldn't fit but a 5.7 V8 can
KSoMA@reddit
Tuning and hardware make the difference. Not every 3.0 is the same. Hell the B58 and S58 are the same "engine" with different tuning and internals and people constantly talk about how their character differs.
trolllord45@reddit
Given the Stellantis/FCA track record, we’ll say it can be a sweet engine, we’ll just have to see how it holds up a few years down the line
FlourCity@reddit
It's been out for 4-5 years and has been generally fine. At least a hell of a lot better than the V35A, the L87.
Stella tis has problems up the wazoo, and the Hurricane doesn't seem to be one of them.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
Eh, stella failed to make the roof smooth where the seal sits on my new gladiator. Its going to be grinded smooth and get repainted because of their qc.
sc0lm00@reddit
They've had long enough to work on it. With all their other problems they at least dont need powertrain ones in addition.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
The engine seems to be ok, it's the electrical architecture that you need to watch out for.
I doubt that things will get any better on that front once the Italians get more heavily involved, but I'm sure it will be one hell of a car when it's working.
withsexyresults@reddit
It revs only to 6k, it’s like a truck engine
Ninesixx@reddit
The current quadrifoglio isnt exactly a screamer, its like a 6500ish redline.
kstetter@reddit
I'm guessing the 500rpm makes all the difference
withsexyresults@reddit
1.4k more revs pretty big difference
withsexyresults@reddit
It redlines at 7400 not 6500
doda124@reddit
As someone who’s owned the engine in multiple vehicles (RHO, Gr. Wagoneer) and who’s owned a giulia quadrifoglio, the quadrifoglio engine is MUCH more exotic and exciting. The hurricane is a beast but it definitely isn’t built for a lightweight sports coupe. Even the nettuno felt toned down in comparison. They’d be better off just keeping the QV engine alone, the 50 extra horsepower isn’t necessary.
SizeableFowl@reddit
Eh, swap some cams and a turbo from the factory and I’d be willing to bet you could make the hurricane feel semi exotic
josephrehall@reddit
Cams sure. Tune sure. Other bolt-on's sure.
Do you know the complexity added as well as the increase in the BOM, warranty liabilities and everything that goes into that decision?
DistanceSolar1449@reddit
Swapping to a bigger turbo to add a few PSI is not going to do much
LordofSpheres@reddit
The decision to turbo an engine that's already twin turbocharged from factory? Not sure that's as complicated as you might think, mate.
BoofMasterQuan2@reddit
Agreed, that QV engine is so special
bauhausy@reddit
Wouldn’t the Maserati Nettuno V6 be a better match? It’s a well designed engine and only used in three slow-selling cars (the Grecale, GranTurismo and MCPura)
Alfa Romeo moving from their V6 that’s (loosely, same chief engineer) based after Ferrari V8’s, to an I6 originally designed for the Wagoneer and RAM trucks, is quite the leap.
SwarmOfRatz@reddit
Yes, but then it would be much more expensive and why would people bother to buy the Maserati?
jse000@reddit
This consideration exists even without Alfa borrowing their engine.
bauhausy@reddit
> It would be much more expensive
Maserati phased-out the I4 and standardized the V6 in the Grecale without raising prices. I don’t think the Nettuno is wildly more expensive than Alfa Romeo’s current 2.9 V6
> Why would people bother to buy the Maserati?
Because Alfa Romeo is not planning a mid-engine sport car like the MCPura or a big GT like the GranTurismo? The Grecale is also larger than the Stelvio. Neither the Giulia nor the Stelvio directly competes with any Maserati.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
33 Stardale is exactly rebadged MCPura, and 8C was exactly rebadged GranTurismo. However, Alfa only made both cars with limited production.
4C was their mid-engine Alfa model in recent, but it didn’t sell well.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
it's not even loosely, it's the f154 with two cylinders chopped off & neat head design. which isn't a bad thing to be clear, quite the opposite, that makes for a fantastic engine
but it is a bit funny seeing maserati attempt to skirt around that like the bank angle etc were just derived from first principles rather than constraints of the f154
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Inline-6 the world IMO
Dachshand@reddit
Blasphemy!
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
Sounds like a big downgrade to me.
Morbidly_Off_Piste@reddit
RIP Giulia.
The Charger engine is a truck motor. Engines are just more than their specifications. I don't expect Reddit Pro Commenters to grasp this, but it's reality.
SopranoCrew@reddit
lmfao
kstetter@reddit
What's wrong with truck engines?
T-Baaller@reddit
No revs.
kstetter@reddit
That doesn't stop an engine from being good
T-Baaller@reddit
It does stop it from being good and fun for a sporty car. The focus on bottom end torque means it starts to fade and struggle near the top of the rev range.
That does not create the excitement like building power with increasing and increasing RPM does
kstetter@reddit
That's not true, there are plenty of fun "truck engine" cars. Like the Ford Falcon
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
The median Falcon XR6/8 is not exactly a highly strung sports car. They're boats by modern standards and the rev limit on both the Barra and V8 is pretty low. They're fun cars but both handling and suspension are very much muscle, not sports sedan.
The racing models and the high performance models also used the 5.4 Modular. 95% of Barras are in taxis and family cars, or at best an XR6 non turbo.
T-Baaller@reddit
Surely you can understand there's a few differences between an aussie muscle car and an italian sport sedan.
kstetter@reddit
The Falcon was only really a muscle car in the 70s, it was a sports sedan in the 2000s.
I do understand there are differences between Australian sports sedans and Italian ones, the Australian cars are better.
The straight six was still designed like a truck engine, with a ton of torque.
FeanorsBlade@reddit
They often don't fit sports car/sports sedan applications very well because the nature of the torque delivery and the use cases are so different. There might be some exceptions of course.
kstetter@reddit
I quite like "truck engine" sports cars personally
8N-QTTRO@reddit
It could work if Stellantis is smart with their tuning. The Supra and Grenadier managed to get both ends of the spectrum with the B58, and I don't see anyone complaining about how that engine feels across different platforms.
potatohead_v2@reddit
It can be tuned for performance? Change the cam profile, switch to lighter internals, raise the redline, and it would make a pretty characterful sporty engine. I don't see the issue here
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I think Alfa position is like Audi, the brand has widely price range. From small luxury sedan to exotic model, I don’t see that’s an issue.
Temporary_Shirt_6236@reddit
Quality concerns aside, it is kinda neat to see the I6 engine make a comeback.
bauhausy@reddit
If I’m not forgetting one, this last decade we got new inline-six from Mercedes, Mazda, Land Rover and Stellantis. Not bad, when not too long ago it was basically only BMW still using them, while everyone else used V6.
Temporary_Shirt_6236@reddit
VW had the VR6 for many years too, though that wasn't quite an I6.
8N-QTTRO@reddit
It also wasn't a very competitive engine for its displacement and weight, though. At least not without some kind of forced induction. And I'm saying that as someone who loves those engines.
Temporary_Shirt_6236@reddit
Welp, I'm getting mine tuned next month. I know the gains aren't much to write home about, but the (advertised) 7200 rpm limit, reduced low end lag, and tighter throttle response? Those i am interested in, little tweaks that make a great engine better.
8N-QTTRO@reddit
The raised limiter and snappier throttle will make a world of a difference, especially with an engine that sounds so good when you rev it out. If you're itching for more power than that, I've also heard good things about a more aggressive cam on them, even if it loses a bit of the low-end torque.
Temporary_Shirt_6236@reddit
I may do more aggressive cams some day, though truth be told, I've got a bit of a unicorn on my hands and want to keep it as stock as possible.
desf15@reddit
Makes very little sense considering that Alfas CEO was stating in some interview last year that they made V6 from Q EURO7 compliant. You don’t invest in making engine compliant with new standards just to not use it.
kstetter@reddit
V6s are for econoboxes, I would hope they are Euro 7 compliant
913drive@reddit
Should be In a viper
kstetter@reddit
The Viper should get a straight eight
8N-QTTRO@reddit
As long as Alfa has full authority over the handling and suspension, this could be incredibly cool.
John_Sux@reddit
American engine sounds from an Italian car, that seems a bit wrong
Spaghetto23@reddit
yeah the whole Charger might end up in the next Giulia unless plans have changed
IAmWellBehaved@reddit
The basic Charger sedan's footprint would be a nice basis for a revival of the Quattroporte. Of course, steering, pedal feel, suspension, and various other aspects can be tuned specifically for Maserati duty, preventing it from feeling like a Charger in a suit. Plus, Maserati engines, Maserati Q4 AWD, fully unique exterior and interior, and you're set.
But in a world that's SUV-crazy and Stellantis needing to focus on the most profitable ventures, applying the same strategy to like a Grand Cherokee L makes more sense.
CaliDude75@reddit
This seems super-obvious (assuming Alfa survives).
mediocrityindepth@reddit
Alfa Romeo six cylinder engines have been V6’s since 1947. In that time, they’ve made some of the nicest V6 engines ever to enter production. Randomly bunging an inline 6 into one will further erode what little sense of identity the brand has left. It doesn’t really matter if the engine is any good or not, it’s visible and shameless parts bin engineering.
mymomisyourfather@reddit
not true at all. In fact, in-line 6 would be more heritage true than V6. Pre-war alfas had 6 cil in-lines. Like the Alfa 6C.
In the 60s, the 2600 series of cars were 6 cilinder in-line engines, based on the Nord engine architecture.
The V6 first arrived in 1979.
PurpleSausage77@reddit
I’ve heard exhausts on these engines and they sound terrible. Will see if they can make them sound good in those cars…maybe change the firing order, get Ferrari to do something about it.
kstetter@reddit
I think it's just a bad exhaust system on the Charger
gdnws@reddit
That would certainly make it unique; I don't think I've ever heard of an inline 6 having a firing order of anything other than 153624, at least not in any road going engine. The factory exhaust, at least from in the cabin, on the ram 1500 RHO, to me at least sounded decent. The thing I found is that it really needed another 1000 rpm to properly wake up.
mgobla@reddit
They should put the new 320+ hp version of the 2.0T in the CURRENT Giulia / Stelvio. It makes zero sense that a Jeep gets this engine and that Alfa has to keep using the old version.
kstetter@reddit
It's normal for cars to use "truck engines" or vice versa. The 5.4 was used in Navigators, Mustangs and Falcons, and the 5.0 was used in F-150s, Mustangs and Falcons. And Ford Australia used a straight six related to the F-150's Ford 300 in the Falcon.
The Viper's V10 was used in trucks before it was used in a car, and Chevrolet's V8s are primarily for their trucks and the corvette.
I would buy a I6 Alfa before I ever buy a V6 or I4 Alfa.
Hrmerder@reddit
This would be the best time to bring back the Dart… but as a mid sized sedan smaller than a charger or challenger but not a compact on a level akin to a gto
ZaheerAlGhul@reddit
I heard that it is a heavy engine. I wonder how that would effect the driving dynamics.
aprtur@reddit
Depends on what exactly is there in terms of accessories, since that's vague from the sources I've found, but the quoted dry weights are ~485lb for the Nettuno V6, and ~440lb for the HO Hurricane....so other than where that weight is distributed, since it's V versus inline, it shouldn't be dramatically different.
mustangfan12@reddit
Seems pretty cool, the hurricane 6 would definitely fit better in an Alfa than the new Charger
KingMario05@reddit
Begun, the great Stellantis parts-sharing has.
Hey, worked for FCA. Plus, the new six is great. Stick it in the Grand Cherokee and a new Chrysler sedan too!
cubs223425@reddit
I wonder how different these things will be from the Charger. It already starts at a price higher than a Giulia. The new Charger is also quite a lot bigger (over 1.5 feet longer). It sounds like a cool car, but if it's got the same drawbacks that turn people off the Charger and is an upmarket iteration on that platform, I worry how desirable it will be.