Toyota GR Corolla review - why the GR Yaris’s big brother will be worth the wait (for Europeans)
Posted by FoMoCoNutjob@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 49 comments
DammitMike@reddit
"Driven back to back with the Yaris, the smaller car has the more immediate turn-in (possibly its shorter wheelbase, possibly its lower weight of 1280kg vs 1495kg), but the Corolla has better mid-corner balance, stays more settled over kerbs, and is less inclined to push its nose wide under power."
"Larger and more practical than the Yaris and just as good to drive it’d undoubtedly find fans, and as it’s now built right here in the UK, it has the potential to be very competitively priced, too."
This article seems to share the same sentiment from some other comparison reviews that the two cars are surprisingly similar to drive, despite the weight difference. Awesome to see that Toyota really seems to have made a good effort to mirror the driving dynamics as best they could.
Successful_Ad_9707@reddit
Hopefully for our European friends Toyota decides to sell some across the pond.
Love the GRY, but even if they sold it here I don't think I'd pick it over the GRC. It's a bit too small for a daily imo.
Godvater@reddit
I went from a GTI Clubsport to GR Yaris. I can assure you this won’t be as good until they give GR Corolla the larget engine it needs.
Successful_Ad_9707@reddit
Honestly I'm perfectly happy with the 1.6. It was the main selling point for me. If I wanted a 4 popper that bad I'd have bought a CTR.
Crystal-Ammunition@reddit
itl be getting a new 4 cylinder right?
Astramael@reddit
Nobody knows. The GRC may not even exist beyond the current generation.
Given the details we currently have on the 2L I4, it looks to be lower revving, less efficient with the turbo, and more of a generic ecoturbo design. Not an engine I would want in my fun car. But we will have to see what the finished item actually looks like.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
Oh boy, compared to the Yaris, the Corolla is still pretty gimped. They made the best of the Corolla chassis but they were limited from day one. The GRC is a decent car for what you get but it definitely is outshined by the Yaris with suspension geometry being the biggest issue.
Astramael@reddit
I own a GRC and I got to drive a GRY somewhat recently on some decent roads. I expected what you described, a substantially better experience in the Yaris. That wasn’t really how it went.
The GRY feels a little bit lighter and more eager to turn in, which makes perfect sense as it is lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. However, the GRC feels a bit quicker and is more adjustable.
The suspensions aren’t as different as you seem to think. The GRY chassis takes the front from a Yaris and the rear from a Corolla. Most parts are interchangeable with width differences being the main thing.
Given the weight and size differences I was expecting a bigger difference in driving, but they really are more similar than expected. I think GRY will always have the homologation special cred and will always be the cooler sibling for that reason.
aprtur@reddit
Interesting to hear your perspective on this, since we occasionally talk about the owner experience. I've got a close friend with a GRY in Japan, but hadn't really delved into a direct comparison like that yet - we've mainly chatted about points where the cars are very similar.
Astramael@reddit
When I was in Japan last year my experience with the car was quite limited. However, I got to play with one in Europe more extensively. Well, I guess Wales isn’t in Europe anymore, but I still think of it as Europe, anyways Wales has absolutely spectacular roads. And it’s not like my comparison point in the Okanagan and Canadian Rockies, or California coast range, are bad.
I think that for daily driver single car ownership the GR Corolla is hugely better. The car is much easier to live with, more room everywhere, a better interior with good features, and it lacks all of the obnoxious nanny state stuff that market requires. It’s more predictable to drive, more forgiving on the limit, and the agility is so close on the road that it can be hard to tell the difference.
For a car you want to cane all the time, I think there’s definitely an edge to the GRY. Keeping in mind I drove a Gen 1 with the LSDs, I hear the Gen 2 GRY is a step up.
The Yaris feels a bit more nimble, it wants to rotate a bit more. I wouldn’t say the GRC is understeery (at least if you drive it correctly with a good alignment), but the GRY lets you toss it around a bit more. It’s less locked down in general, which is mostly a good thing. It feels a touch more manic which is a character I like a lot.
I do think the GRC adjusts better in the set, it powers out of the apex better, and it’s less sketchy in weird braking scenarios (eg. downhill into a corner on damp leaves).
The GRC is insanely good in snow and dirt and sand, just unbelievably great. I don’t know if the GRY is the same way, one must assume that it is but I didn’t get to try it.
aprtur@reddit
That seems pretty in line with the more honest comparison reviews I've read between the two, and the more stable nature of the GRC is probably something I'd prefer overall, since my RX is very similar - that car is very neutral, and you rotate it with the throttle without much (if any) drama, which makes it a very good driving partner to push the limits of the car a bit more. While I haven't owned the GRC for nearly as long as the Mazda, and am thus less intimately acquainted with it in terms of seat time, I do get that same sense of good communication and rotation without being too twitchy, especially in rear bias mode. I'd love to give the GRY a shot to see just how darty it is in comparison, and maybe I'll find a way to do a Kinto with one when I go back to Japan this winter.
I am curious about one thing you mentioned, which I'm not so aware of on the Japanese GRY - what nannies are on the UK car that you noticed, which we don't have here in the US on our GRCs?
Astramael@reddit
Keeping in mind that I’m also not super aware of what the rules are, or what exact differences exist for vehicles sold in the EU versus the UK. But here’s what I found annoying:
Apparently you can buy modules that automatically switch some of this stuff off, but you can’t code it out in TechStream.
I don’t think that US GRCs have auto start/stop even if you wanted it, and they do have lane departure but once you turn it off it stays off forever. Our cars don’t have the hazards under braking at all.
Maybe I’m a weirdo but one of the things I really like about my car is that it has no startup tea ceremony. You start and you drive, no turning off settings or putting the car into a mode every time.
Also somewhat unrelated the car doesn’t have a rear wiper. Which I hadn’t noticed until I messed with the controls, mind you rear visibly is pretty narrow. I use the rear wiper a lot in winter, but maybe the GRY hatch window doesn’t accumulate so much dirt and snow.
aprtur@reddit
That hazard under hard braking thing is standard for Japan, as well - you'll see it on any BMI/Hot Version/DK Channel videos of the car. I honestly think that wouldn't be a bad thing to have here, as it's a good visual cue when so many people aren't paying attention anymore, and I manually do that myself with the hazards if I'm dramatically slowing compared to the speed I was just going.
The auto stop thing is nuts, and I'm glad we don't have that on our cars. That would drive me insane.
Astramael@reddit
The threshold that causes it to activate is too low. Maybe if you’re into the ABS it makes sense, but it would switch on during just somewhat hard breaking. The sort of things you’d do on mountain road having a good time. I personally did not like it as implemented.
aprtur@reddit
I'm guessing they just left the Japanese calibration, which probably makes sense in that setting. I'm sure you could tweak it a bit more if it were implemented here, or maybe have a setting to turn it off altogether for when you're doing stuff like you mentioned with spirited driving. Your mention of the light threshold actually reminds me of the problems they had with early GRCs on press fleets phoning emergency services through the SOS system 😂.
Astramael@reddit
Oh yea I forgot about that. I haven’t heard about it in some time, they must have fixed it.
And yea, sure, maybe there’s a threshold where hazards under braking makes sense. However, these days one of the things about the GRC that I am fond of is how simple it is. Passive dampers, no parking sensors, no sunroof, no electronic parking brake, fully defeatable driver assistance systems, no auto start/stop, no cylinder deactivation, no fake engine noise, no lifetime fluids, no HUD, etc.
I’m not going to give Toyota any ideas about adding more stuff! They’ve already added a few of these to vehicles after the generation I bought.
aprtur@reddit
True, and that's one of the reasons I like it, as well. I know Japan had the HUD and the option of the large screen on our gen, and I'm honestly happy my car doesn't have either. However, mine has parking sensors, where yours doesn't - but that's seriously old tech that Toyota perfected back in the 80s and early 90s, and doesn't really impact much of anything.
Astramael@reddit
I’m also a cranky bastard who has too much scar tissue from working on cars, so I might be unreasonably allergic to things that aren’t actually a problem.
My partner’s Mazda 3 Turbo has every option possible and nothing has gone wrong yet.
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AllGravyNoBiscuits@reddit
Great input, thanks for sharing. I definitely felt snubbed without the GRY in North America, but glad to hear it’s not as significant
ThrindellOblinity@reddit
>Hopefully the UK gets access to both, would be ideal.
They are built there, so a UK release makes sense
aprtur@reddit
Yes, but the huge caveat I've been reading is that the UK's ZEV mandate would seriously hurt Toyota for adding the GRC to the lineup - so while it's a maybe, it's going to be a big business consideration for Toyota to do so.
bhop_monsterjam@reddit
I don't get it, and have never bought this line of reasoning, it never really gets backed up.
Toyota sell TONS of hybrids, every fecking taxi driver in the UK has adopted the Corolla, yet they have issues selling more GR86s and the GR Corolla?
BMW didn't seem to get the memo... They sell tons of M cars (a lot of 135Ms and 140Ms, lots of heavy executive SUVs a lot of which will be M cars. Lots of M2s, M3s, M4s get sold. I fail to recognise that all their regular cars outsell everything that Toyota make.
aprtur@reddit
From what I've read, the ZEV mandate excludes hybrids of any form as counting toward their percentage, and they're facing the regulation being 52% ZEV in 2028, 66% in 2029, and 80% in 2030. I don't think it's that Toyota couldn't sell the GRC in the UK, but it's a question of why they would not only adapt the GRC only for the UK market when they already have the GRY federalized, and why they'd take the ZEV fine hit to only sell a couple thousand of them before ZEV phases them out entirely. It's a numbers game, and I guess they feel like they already gave the UK their local variant with the Yaris. This could all change if Toyota sees either a walk back of ZEV or a significant number of buyers in the UK, but I just don't think it makes sense - it'd probably be cheaper for a UK buyer to import from Japan.
EtArcadia@reddit
I'm not sure where you get that idea. The two cars have nearly identical suspension geometry. The GR Yaris uses the TNGA-C subframe from the Corolla in the rear and the front is TNGA-B (used in the standard Yaris as well), which isn't any more advanced than the TNGA-C used in the GR Corolla. The driving experience of the two cars is very similar, it's really only the weight that makes any noticeable difference and even that is less apparent than you'd think.
herrokero@reddit
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone complain about the geometry. Mostly complaints about limp mode due to the heavier weight that the rear transfer case can’t handle as well as the GR Y
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
When Jack from SavageGeese took his GRC to get suspension work done, they mentioned you can only adjust rear toe OR rear camber, not both. If that was resolved, then the car is leagues ahead of where it was when it came out.
herrokero@reddit
big tbhhhhh, most cars dont have adjustments like that from the factory either
Astramael@reddit
Alignment adjustments are the same between GRY and GRC. Front toe, front camber via bolts, no caster. Rear toe only. The upper and lower rear arms have the same part numbers between the cars.
aprtur@reddit
Will add to your point here about one of the biggest "parts bin" points of the GRY - the rear end is famously lifted from the Corolla.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
It's the same geometry. In fact I believe it's almost mostly the same parts, stuff like the control arms are interchangable.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
Interesting. Can you compare the driving experiences of the two for us? You’re in a unique position having experienced them both.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
You replied to the wrong guy.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
? No I’m curious about your impressions. Talking about chassis limitations and being outshined isn’t a comment you’d make without having driven both. That would just be embarrassing.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
No, that's a ridiculous premise. One can read the comments made by people who tune the suspension and compare/contrast the two. The GRC apparently gets the rear subframe from the GRY, and camber can be adjusted via camber bolts.
This is ignoring the fact that the GRY is something like 400 lbs lighter than the GRC and is a homologation special versus the GRC which is a modified Corolla. So that's nice to know. But the GRY is objectively the better strictly from a comparison standpoint.
JDMV12@reddit
I can chime in. Here in NZ we've been getting both cars for years, and with full Japan-spec power figures (no particulate filters etc).
I've driven dozens of these cars. GRY and GRC. Pre and post-facelift, auto and manual, all on track multiple times.
On the road there's not much to seperate them, they're both crazy capable and obviously the GRC is much more practical. On the track, however, my experience is that the GRC is just a bit too compromised for my liking. The extra weight is noticed, and I find the rear of the car especially to be less playful. I can get a GRY to turn in much more aggressively - but it's also a little more "loose" I suppose, so you have to manage it a bit more. The GRC also holds up far worse to abuse, I've had multiple instances of the GRC overheating and going into FWD-only mode.
Some notes on our NZ cars. All of the cars I've tested were at least the equivalent of an international "circuit pack" and came with LSD etc. Our facelift GRY also makes the full 300hp of the GRC, so it actually ends up being faster in most scenarios due to the lighter weight.
Popular_Broccoli133@reddit
Awesome write up!
hutacars@reddit
Having driven both, that was not my experience. I would happily take the GRC over the GRY any day. Admittedly, the driving environment I had for both was very different in ways which may influence my opinion, but the GRC sounded better*, was more rewarding to push hard, and honestly didn't suffer handling-wise despite the worse chassis and higher weight. I also preferred the size-- the GRY was just too tight inside, and I'm not a particularly large person at all.
*Yes, I know it's the same engine, and should sound the same. But fact is I was easily able to hear turbo and intake noise in the GRC, but had to strain to hear them in the GRY.
T-Baaller@reddit
ehhh? When it came to the Ford ST's the Fiesta was generally seen as the better drive, and choice, as long as you didn't need the focus's extra storage room.
I struggle to see why this would be different.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Imho the biggest problem with the GRY is it makes for a shitty hot hatch, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the performance but even relative to a subcompact like the Fiesta the boot space is miniscule and you're not putting anyone who still has legs in the back seats.
That's fine if you want a hatch shaped pocket rocket but if you want a hot hatch because you want something that's both fast and practical the GRC is a way better car.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I’m surprised European still not getting LBX Morizo, LBX Morizo is actual more perfect 4-door GR Yaris for Europe buyers.
Blyatskinator@reddit
What the hell how have I never heard about or seen an ”LBX” until now…? Let alone ”Morizo” (Aus only?)
I had no idea what brand you guys were even talking about
aprtur@reddit
I got to see a 6MT one on track at Tsukuba, and it's a hoot to see a small CUV type thing hitting the same lap times as the GRY and GRC.
ryzenguy111@reddit
Toyota probably wants to keep their average co2 emissions down in Europe, especially because they have no compelling EVs. GR Yaris has had a huge (50%) price increase since launch because I think they want to artificially limit the sales of it so they don’t get fined.
Logical-Vermicelli53@reddit
We get these in Australia but they’re quite a bit more money. In the time of price range they sell for there are tons of far more capable cars. The Corolla is already expensive.
cristiand90@reddit
I'm assuming there is a production bottleneck on the engines. The LBX is selling very well in Europe, so it would make sense to launch the Morizo here.