Ukraine begins to flex muscle as an emerging air power, angering Russia
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 170 comments
Posted by polymute@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 170 comments
Valensre@reddit
The laughable optics of 'you can't bomb us while we bomb you' while Kremlin apologists proclaim that Russia is only 'holding back' after getting bogged down in Ukraine for 4 years with tens of thousands of casualties.
Could complete the clown show with a sign that says 'we demand to be taken seriously' as like the US right now that seems to be RU's foreign policy in a nutshell.
Eexoduis@reddit
Casualties are in the millions
Kuro-Dev@reddit
Not sure about millions but def hundrets of thousands. Million perhaps if you count injured
jcw99@reddit
In the military co text, "Casualty" includes wounded. Russia is considered to be at around 1.2 million, with 600k or so on the Ukrainian side. (Excluding coviliay)
Salazarsims@reddit
Ukraine has taken far more casualties than Russia, and far more deaths.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
You're gonna have to give us sources, because literally all available sources say otherwise.
And if that were true, if a defending side was actually taking more casualties, it would mean they were being steamrolled. The war would've ended years ago.
Salazarsims@reddit
Don’t give me some 3:1 ratio bullshit that’s tactics 101 stuff.
In historical cases where the defenders lost they were often completely destroyed.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
One reputable source was all I asked, and you couldn't even do that. Made my point.
Salazarsims@reddit
What’s a reputable source to you?
DimitryKratitov@reddit
All sources I've ever seen, most of them independent, agree Russians are taking +/- twice the casualties of Ukraine.
You're saying that, even though Russia is infinitely bigger and has a much larger army... And apparently is actually taking less losses than Ukraine, but somehow barely moving on the battlefield. So give us sources of that. I don't know what a reputable source would be, saying that, given that 100% of sources I've ever seen say otherwise. Give a few, I guess. Independent, non-russian-tied ones.
Salazarsims@reddit
Then you need to broaden your sources, most I look at say more like 10:1 in Russias favor, with nearly two million dead Ukrainians.
Russia has more force multipliers than Ukraine does. More artillery, more missiles, more drones, more bombs, more rockets, more incendiaries, more thermobarics, none of these force multipliers get Russians killed while killing Ukrainians.
When Russia takes a trench line they don’t even assault it with more than three guys because they previously destroyed it with force multipliers.
Russians have better training on average (with some exceptions), they eat better, they have troop rotation with fresh troops, better logistics.
But man the west definitely has a better propaganda machine than Russia’s but not as good as Iran’s.
Eexoduis@reddit
Two million dead Ukrainians? That is utter fantasy, so far from any independent estimates it can only be pure propaganda. And it is - 1.7 million *dead* Ukrainian soldiers was a Kremlin-linked “leak” that was not corroborated by any evidence whatsoever, and immediately amplified by every state media channel in Russia.
There is simply no evidence to support such a massive figure. That many bodies are impossible to hide. Ignoring the fact that your figure is sourced by the Russian government, contains no evidence, and defies all available facts, confirmed Ukrainian deaths by independent sources are around 97,000, with possibly 140,000 total dead, according to the CSIS.
The CSIS further estimates up to 325,000 Russian dead. Mediazona has confirmed 200,000 Russian deaths.
Salazarsims@reddit
Sure buddy that’s why they plan on drafting women, lowered the draft age, want to refugees to be repatriated and plan on mass migration of Africans because only 97,000 dead.
CSIS is a western think tank that makes money off war.
Valensre@reddit
Bruh if they took two million casualties dead the entire Ukrainian army would've had to been wiped out, reincarnated, and wiped out again and possibly again a third time.
If you want to simp for Russia whatever but at least try to do it somewhat sanely as difficult as that might be sometimes.
Salazarsims@reddit
Ukraine has been drafting people for four years straight, their forces were over a somewhere around 1.5 million (including reserves) at the start of the war.
Valensre@reddit
And? How is that remotely aligning with your insane claim that they've lost their entire army close to 3x over now?
Are they using the cloners of Komino to make that wor from Star wars?
Because the only thing that this is based on so far is some Russian said so, which is apparently good enough for you I guess.
Maybe you could try giving me an independent source claiming even half of what you believe?
Salazarsims@reddit
It’s been in the news for years. Just an eight months ago some hackers hacked Ukrainian servers and got 1.7 million dead paperwork from them. Nothing insane about it.
I don’t get my Ukraine news from Russia I get it from retired U.S. military bloggers. Those colonels aren’t Russian bots.
Valensre@reddit
'Been in the news for years' yet your best source is a conspiracy theorist podcaster akin to Joe Rogan in quality?
Come on dude. Give me something akin to Al Jazeera or Reuters that has a degree of credibility.
Salazarsims@reddit
The former commander of delta force isn’t Joe Rogan quality.
You lot on the other hand say Russia is a threat to all of Europe but it’s too weak to take Ukraine. You all will uncritically believe anything that agrees with you bias.
Valensre@reddit
He's not a 'former commander of delta force'. He's a MAGA shill podcaster and apparently if he says he met a guy who said he saw these millions of deaths on a hidden server that's good enough for you lol.
Why are you acting so surprised and offended that might not be good enough for other people?
All I'm 'saying' right now is can you give me an independent source backing up your claim that's at least semi-trustworthy, hell I'll even take fox news at this point, but we both know that's not going to happen right? That's why you're trying to strawman and change the subject right now, because I think part of you knows it's bullshit so time to move onto something else.
Salazarsims@reddit
Who gives a shit about the interviewer the guy being interviewed Pete Blaber is a retired lt colonel. But he’s not the only one several other former US military and intelligence people have similar numbers.
This is the problem with you lot, you focus on exactly the wrong thing in a dishonest way (like the blogger). That’s why I don’t bother with sources any more you just can’t be honest in your assessment.
And Fox News is an entertainment site (by their own admission) give me a break. Anyone in the world can be telling you the truth and anyone can be lying to you. But you lot consistently go with the liars like Fox News, and the rest of the mainstream media.
Valensre@reddit
Then cite them, I can find ' several other former US military and intelligence people' who well tell you literally any claim under the sun including alien abductions. They don't have a monopoly on the truth.
Because I hold them to a standard instead of believing whatever comes out of their mouth?
You strike me as one of those 'do your own research types' that act like you're so much more closer to the truth than the evil 'mainstream media' where such things as, god forbid, other people fact checking the bullshit you peddle occurs. Apparently when you do that it's 'not being honest in your assessment' LOL.
I keep an open mind my guy, but not so open that my brain falls out.
Salazarsims@reddit
Colonel McGregor, Larry Johnson (ex cia, state department), Ray McGovern (CIA), lt Colonel Wilkinson.
The evil mainstream media routinely lies, manipulates, obfuscates and manufactures consent. Those companies make money of war, are owned by people or corporations who make money of war, interviews generals who work for think tanks who make money of war or the actual arms manufacturers or both or chicken hawk politicians who never met a war they didn’t like. They’ve lied us into war after war most of my life.
I doubt you’re the type who fact checks the mainstream media.
Valensre@reddit
Claims 1.5 million casualties. Not deaths.
Assuming that its \~4 injured for every death, which is the ratio everywhere I've found, that's \~375k deaths.
Less than 1/4 of what you're claiming.
Fun fact he's also regular guest on Fox News, were he was screaming Ukraine was going to 'collapse' throughout all of 2022, and has shilled for Russia and Israel. Not that you care.
I can find nowhere where he gives a number supporting your '2 million deaths'. He says its a 1-10 ratio. Yet Russia has been bogged down going on the fourth year now even though they're winning so spectacularly right? They're using stalinium tanks and body armor I guess.
Claims 500k dead.
I cant find where he's given a number.
I doubt you're the type who facts checks yourself, because I'm guessing you heard '2 million casualties' in the war somewhere and decided in your mind those must be all Ukrainian, and that causalities = deaths.
And rather than admit I'm guessing you're going to go all in instead ranting about how I'm brainwashed by the 'mainstream media' and you can't possibly be wrong, right?
Salazarsims@reddit
I doubt you’ve watched every interview he’s given in that short time. But nice try.
No he’s said over two million deaths multiple times. I’ve listened to plenty of his interviews.
He’s been on msnbc and other mainstream media plenty, he’s also spoken to his experience on msm.
I doubt you’ve fact check yourself as well.
I see you’re trying to paint me as a right winger.
Valensre@reddit
So now we're back 'it's true because one guy said so'? Versus the thousands of other 'one guy' ex-US military analysts that you conveniently ignore that disagree with you, including ones that you literally just posted who think you're off by at least a factor of 4?
Now your evidence is 'I heard him say it in some interviews' well shit I can't dispute that, it must be true then! He must be the second coming or something with his powers of prophecy and statistical analysis.
I was talking about that McGregor guy, but hey if you get that immediately fixated thinking I'm talking about you go ahead. You're definitely giving off that vibe of 'ex-sanders supporter who went off the deep end during covid and horseshoe theoried themself into becoming a rabid authoritarian right wing nationalist'.
Am I wrong?
Salazarsims@reddit
Yes you’re wrong entirely.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
Wait, you think Russia, a 30-times bigger country is killing 10-1 a much tinier country and army... And somehow making basically 0 advances? Being on the 4th year of a 3-day war?
Do you think they're doing it on purpose, or does space-time bend weirdly in Ukraine...? You keep giving 0 sources btw.
Salazarsims@reddit
They are fighting a war of attrition advances aren’t the goal, demilitarization of the enemy by destroying them and their equipment is.
Yeah post some more NAFO talking points. 3 day war check, 0 advances check.
Of course they are doing it on purpose to takes time to destroy all the fighting age men in a country.
I haven’t seen you post a single source. Nor do I plan too as I don’t care what you believe.
Kuro-Dev@reddit
u/DimitryKratitov you are just talking to a propaganda bot :D They always try to deny that "Defenders Advantage" exists.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
I thought so too, but it was a 6yo account. Of course it's still possible it was a bot, running a stollen account. But I guess it's one less on the internet.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
They're... destroying Ukraine slowly on purpose because... they want to destroy it...?
Do you really believe the crap you're spouting, or do you economically depend on the money you're getting for the propaganda...?
And I know you won't give sources. There aren't any. Even Russian Mil-Bloggers admit to the internationally recognised numbers.
"They're doing it slowly on Purpose". Yeah, that's why they rushed Kyiv in the first week (but failed, as they always do). Please. People aren't as dumb as you think they are. If this is your best propaganda, you're as good as the Russian army. Take that comment as you will, maybe you think it's a compliment.
Salazarsims@reddit
My man both sides want to destroy Ukraine. Russia less so.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
Of course, that's why the west invaded Ukraine. Oh wait.
Salazarsims@reddit
They certainly did when the CIA took over.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
Holy shit, you're delusional.
So Zelenskyy is an agent?
Like, even if that was somehow true (lol), how is literally invading not a lot worse anyway?
The facts are: Russia, a Country 30 times bigger, invaded Ukraine, unprompted. They wanted to be done in days. 4 years later, they're getting their asses handed to them, by a much smaller army. It has had to ask for help from fucking North Korea (talk about shame), is being extorted by China, and has already exhausted the criminal conscripts they took out of jail to go fight.
Everyone is looking at Russia and laughing. All of this is just sad, honestly. Slava Ukraini
Salazarsims@reddit
Of course he is he’s an actor who worked on a show where he was the anti corruption president and then the producer of the show funded his political career where he became a very corrupt president. The same producer funded Asov and other ultra nationalists.
Man you are delusional.
DimitryKratitov@reddit
And yes... That comedian is kicking Russia's butt :') how are you not embarassed haha
Salazarsims@reddit
Nope he’s kicking the Ukrainian people’s butt.
Kuro-Dev@reddit
The thing is Conscrips do pretty well against recruits tho. Russia is also not sending veterans to war anymore.
Monterenbas@reddit
In case of a total collapse of the defense maybe, but that’s not really what happened in Ukraine, isn’t it?
SpitefulRedditScum@reddit
No.
Kuro-Dev@reddit
interesting! didn't know that.
DancingDumpling@reddit
Casualties have always included injured as well
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Even billions, I hear.
Valensre@reddit
Definately, I'm being stupidly conservative with the number.
No_Internal9345@reddit
Drawing parallels; I wonder how long until Iran starts hitting US infrastructure?
Azzagtot@reddit
It already is doing that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1t0y02d/iran_has_destroyed_mindblowing_number_of_us/
Eexoduis@reddit
No it is not
Azzagtot@reddit
Ok
NomineAbAstris@reddit
Eh destroying forward-deployed military bases doesn't really impact the vast majority of Americans beyond damaging national pride. The Hormuz closure is vastly more painful for 99% of the US population, but calling that "destruction of infrastructure" is kind of a stretch.
DueAd9005@reddit
Iran can't really hit the USA proper, they can't project power that far.
Valensre@reddit
They've done it very effectively, Americans love to whine about gas prices which is a form of hitting infrastructure imo.
Opening_Pizza@reddit
Iran is beginning to flex muscle as an emerging power, angering America and it's president Netanyahu. Ukraine has lost 20% of it's territory and hundreds of thousands are dead and injured, while millions have fled. Ukraine would not be in the position to launch drones without support equaling several times the military budget of Russia.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Yeah I guess this means Putin will beg for a ceasefire like trump did!
These guys dont give a fuck about Ukraine, just happy to see slavs dead
NomineAbAstris@reddit
A rapist will not stop until they successfully rape someone, so if we can't stop them immediately we should just let them do whatever they want in perpetuity?
PurpleMclaren@reddit
The EU flair made this even more funny, on god, what the fuck are you talking about. This is war, it has happened since tribes have exisited, Russia was being pushed into a corner, they should have acted earlier when the CIA/MI6 coup outsed the democratically elected president for being "pro russian"
You can not keep poking a bear and then be surprised when it mauls you.
NomineAbAstris@reddit
Ok, so if "this is war" and "this is just how it has always worked" then I guess there's nothing wrong with the West meeting Russia where it's at and punishing it as much as possible to secure its own interests. You don't get to ascribe a rational perspective to the Russian government choosing to get into an unwinnable and self-destructive war and then get pissy when other rational actors respond on the same terms. If anything the EU has been fighting with one hand tied behind its back because too many of its member states were overly reliant on Russian gas and wanted to maintain mostly normal economic ties after 2014.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Yeah the billions of dollars of loans will be repaid when Russia loses and needs to pay reparations. Get real, once the Ukrainian population smartens up, which has already started actually, they will refuse to be your proxy.
Thats why this website exists that is keeping track of every Ukrainian kidnapped, 45 have been killed while resisting, dead before reaching the front. Seen mothers, wives, scream, fight, even saw a wife fire a shotgun in the air to get them away.
They have started attacking these officers, stabbings, shootings everyday week.
Slava Ukrainia right?
When theres no Ukrainians left you think France/Germany/UK/Poland are gonna send troops...?
froz3nt@reddit
Move to russia sir
PurpleMclaren@reddit
I am literally Macedonian, we are slavic brothers, same as Ukrainians. That is why its a tradgey what is happening, we saw them do it in Yugoslavia too, it was a testing ground for exactly this.
Monterenbas@reddit
Isn’t that the fastest way to make sure that the stronger tribe will start more war of agression in the future? Since it get rewarded for invading its neighbor?
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Thats what the west is doing but using the ukrainian population as their cannon fodder.
Thats whats disgusting about it, you can call russia evil but the west is even worse since they arent even using their own men.
Monterenbas@reddit
Nobody called russia evil, but how is rewarding russia for waging war, will lead to less war in the future? What’s the logic here?
PurpleMclaren@reddit
What is the logic in destroying a nations demographics? Wont Russia eventually win due to their population advantage? Quarter of Ukrainians fled, still over 120 million Russians..
Eventually the Russians will make more Russians in what is now Ukraine.
YoshiSan90@reddit
The stronger tribe? Russias economy is similar to Italy’s. Ukrainians have the backing of the far stronger tribe. This war will likely end in Russia dissolving into multiple countries just like the Soviet Union. Russia may have more people than Ukraine, but it lacks the economic might to rebuild its old Soviet stockpiles it’s been quickly burning through.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Yeah US economy is so much bigger but even they cant take Russia on militarily.
YoshiSan90@reddit
They absolutely could. Sure they’d take losses, but short of nukes there’s not much Russia could do to actually stop them. The first gulf war showed it. Iraq had the 4th largest army on earth and got routed. The US would not fight a slow attritional war that the Russians like.
Iran also shows what the early stages would look like. Russia could lash out and shoot off missiles and drones, but the US would quite quickly establish air superiority. The US lost 15 manned aircraft against Iran. Out of a fleet of over 13,000 aircraft. Russian air defense equipment is roughly at technological parity to Iran’s. Russia’s has also been greatly degraded by the war with Ukraine, as evidenced by all of the burning refineries. The US would have the ability to touch any part of Russia at will. Within weeks every refinery and pipeline would be burning. Within months assuming a ground invasion the Russian government would fall. Thankfully for Russia they have nukes, and so nobody wants this to happen. In a conventional war the Russians stand no chance.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
No, america doesnt have the appropriate appetite for a conventional war, thats why they rely on air power. Not a secret that Russian missiles were top class, why is Ukraine using F16s in rear and still getting shot down? Why is F35 not showing up?
Thing is, if they dont get shocked and awed, whats next?
YoshiSan90@reddit
The US isn’t going to give F-35s to Ukraine. Those F-16s are ancient. The Ukrainians mostly got old leftover American weapons across the board.
We also know exactly how the F-35 would perform against Russian AA. The Israeli F-35s were what annihilated Irans air defenses. Rusian AA couldn’t even successfully stop what were basically Cessna 172s filled with explosives as a drone. To think they would stop the combined air power of the US is a fantasy.
You act as though the US wasn’t behaving like war averse isolationists before both world wars. They can do what they need to when they need to. If the US and Russia were throwing blows something big happened that forced both their hands.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
A couple systems isnt gonna do anything, russia has the largest most advanced AA, to think you could fly over them and not be challenged by their own long range missiles is not just laughable, its completely diliousional.
Over 800 batteries literally thousands of launchers and radar vehicles, not a few systems that you claim victory over.
Iran proved that F35 is just propaganda, being downed by IR sensors will just inevitably lead to improvements in next systems.
The real reason it isn't sent is so it isnt shot down, if its invincible like you are saying, why not just send it? Hahah your argument makes no sense.
loggy_sci@reddit
Literal Russia fan fiction. You are one of the biggest Kremlin mouthpieces on this sub. Despicable.
froz3nt@reddit
You are, thats why you should move to russia if you like it so much.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Macedonia is in worse shape than russia my man, it would be an upgrade
froz3nt@reddit
Go for it. You will love it then.
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Id love to spend time there but I already am comfortable here, even if it is worse than Russia.
froz3nt@reddit
Sure you are
PurpleMclaren@reddit
I have multiple homes and 4 plots of farmland, id call that pretty comfortable
mmmmsmegma@reddit
Ебанатич
Poonis5@reddit
Do you honestly think there's a conspiracy to kill specifically slavs?
PurpleMclaren@reddit
Its not a conspiracy, US uses chaos to control the world. We are stronger together, so they keep us divided.
Why was the democratically elected president removed from power in 2014?
CIA documents show clandestine operations/coup attempts all over the world.
They fund terrorist organizations, etc etc
Its not just slavs, its all tribes.
Poonis5@reddit
Because he broke his promise to lead us to EU when he was given a bribe from Russia.
Then he used police to brutalize students. Later to kill protesters. He was very corrupt and stupid.
Even the his own party, the ruling party condemned him. US wanted to calm the protest and keep him in power, but protesters scared him away.
We elected a new president, then a new parliament. No one took power by force. Even Putin admitted our new government was legitimate.
ReMoGged@reddit
Putin and Ruscist gov that he build will not stop as that is the only thing that keeps him in power. Russians on another hand are starting to feel the consequences of their inaction, the hate toward Ruscist gov and Putin is growing.
re_carn@reddit
And who is killing the Slavs? Your beloved Putin.
Poonis5@reddit
FYI Russia has occupied 2% of Ukraine in 2023-2026
AntistanCollective@reddit
Because of Russia's imperialistic invasion
Cope. We're talking about allies that were, and still are, against Ukrainian strikes on Russian export infrastructure.
This is also easily verifiable information. Russian war budget is higher, and they also get support from China, NK, Iran, Belarus and a multitude of other countries help with going around sanctions.
The reality is, Ukraine is now self dependent on most equipment and when it comes to drone production. They now produce a lot of the stuff themselves, which is why US stopping all aid isn't as critical as it was 2 years ago. The only real reliance is monetary to be able to scale this domestic production, but even without it Ukraine is more than capable to do a lot since so much of their budget is going to defense now, and they're starting to export their arms as well.
Here's an American soldier who's fought in Ukraine talking about this fact https://youtu.be/4vmxlVFaQ3I?si=tOIgpJK78yaifdL6&t=285
alkbch@reddit
Ukraine absolutely needs monetary assistance and can’t function without.
21DaBear@reddit
didnt the Hungary election free up $100B to send?
alkbch@reddit
Yes it did.
Azzagtot@reddit
Sounds like you are trying to whitewash imperialistic illegal nazi invasion-war of genocidal agression
Unless you are Kremlin bot and Putin himself, you need to use at least 3 buzzwords to show support of current narrative.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
Russki Bot tripwire moment
AntistanCollective@reddit
Are you okay? I'm simply stating a fact. A war of aggression that includes occupation, eradication of culture, forced deportations and Russification is in fact imperialistic.
this_dudeagain@reddit
Pays to have less shitty allies
Dawn_of_Enceladus@reddit
I mean, their pilots are farming a low-level country like Russia for experience. Right now, Putin and his fellow butchers look like mere furious goblins to the world.
Pretty much like Trump and his fellow pedos, too. Who would have said the former two biggest geopolitical powers would become the two most ridiculous memes instead.
MCB1317@reddit
It's like with every word, your post grew more insane.
NezumiAniki@reddit
It's impossible to anger geriatric cuckolds in the government, they have an infinite supply of red pencils.
Angering Russians is quite possible though, but it's not Ukraine, but the Putin's government that does that.
somethingsomethingcharacterlimit
Kiboune@reddit
Well stupid and old people come up with wrong conclusions and get angry at Ukraine instead of government. But even though I don't believe in polls in Russia, there are rumors that Putin's rating is lowest it ever was. But sadly not because of war..
teslawhaleshark@reddit
Prigozhin banked on things too early
loggy_sci@reddit
I wish Pringles wouldn’t have chickened out on his march to Moscow
IlluminatedPickle@reddit
He pulled out because he knew it wasn't going to work without support from the RuAF generals, and they clearly weren't backing him.
They hadn't seen much resistance yet, but they were about to hit the approaches to Moscow where the army had dug in.
Apprehensive_Emu9240@reddit
Seems like Russia is discovering that being bigger and having more simply means you stand to lose more. Ukraine can keep battering Russia's economy, and Russia can't return in kind. Ukraine simply doesn't have the large scale industry anymore to be destroyed.
Azzagtot@reddit
They still have NPPs and electricity in cities, water treatment facilities which shows great deal of restrain and care about Ukrainian civilians from Russia's side.
This is further confirmed by civilian casualties numbers being lowest of all wars of this magnitude. I remind you - according to UN only 15 thousands of civilians died from the start of this war.
Russia will retaliate, new headlines of them being cannibalistic orcs will be written so on and so far. New deals would be made. This already happened before and happened again. It's an attritional warfare and it will last far beyond 2030.
Valensre@reddit
What wonderful people to invade a country in an attritional war lasting a decade +. A lot of 'restraint and care' going on with that.
Azzagtot@reddit
Yeah, Russians got a lot to learn from you. Killing two times more civilians in one year that Russians did in four.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/world/middleeast/17iraq.html
EnglishBrekkie_1604@reddit
Have you considered that multiple things can be bad?
Azzagtot@reddit
I just love being educated about war crimes by true masters, standing on a Pedestal of Morality.
You may talk about it as soon as US will be under 20k sanctions, it just does not look like US crimes are bad for you all guys.
re_carn@reddit
Regardless of whether the United States or Israel is considered bad, that doesn’t make Russia any better.
Salazarsims@reddit
Whataboutism.
re_carn@reddit
Whataboutism is what the commenter above used when he claimed that “you can't judge Russia since you're at war with Iran.”
Salazarsims@reddit
He’s right westerners have no place to judge we are the worse by far.
re_carn@reddit
Prove it. Why on earth would anyone be unable to form an opinion about the international situation? Because this isn’t a “domestic matter” - it’s one country attacking another, it’s the soldiers of one country killing the citizens of another.
Salazarsims@reddit
People in who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
re_carn@reddit
Why don't you try using your brain and making a case for your point of view, instead of just resorting to clichés?
Salazarsims@reddit
I did, we are the worst.
We’ve killed millions of innocents since I was born, run a world wide torture program, used terrorism as an excuse to invade countries while sometimes employing the same terrorists.
Supported right wing death squads in Central America and South America.
Instituted a sanction regime which kills at least half a million people a year world wide.
Overthrown semi stable governments in the name of weaponized idpol while hiding our true motives. Resulting in massive destabilization.
Supported facsist regimes all over the world.
Maintained a brutal global hedemony which seeks to keep other countries down.
Interfered in many countries politics while whining about anyone trying to influence our elections.
re_carn@reddit
And how does that excuse Russia and Putin? How does that make the invasion of Ukraine more legitimate? After all, by claiming that Americans have no right to condemn it, you’re arguing that the invasion is justified, that the destruction of Ukraine is justified.
Salazarsims@reddit
its irrelevant what Russia does compared to us they are minor league. Besides most of Russias violence is in response to what we set in motion, there just wouldn’t be the motivation on their side without us constantly messing with them.
re_carn@reddit
It's utter bullshit.
Yeah, let's compete in genocides. “This genocide is too small, just a tiny one - let's forgive it.”
Yes, unless you count the desire to “restore the USSR” that sprang up in the senile old pos.
Salazarsims@reddit
Use your brain the west never stopped fighting the Cold War because communism wasn’t our target, Russia was. We simple can’t tolerate even modest competition on the world stage. We are even curbing the EU’s power by keeping them away from Russia and China.
Genocide is a meaningless term on Reddit.
I don’t see any desire to restore the USSR at the highest levels of Russian power.
re_carn@reddit
Yeah, but it didn't stop the old fool from trying.
If you think this justifies Russia’s war even in the slightest, try thinking again.
Salazarsims@reddit
He’s not trying to restore the USSR.
Of course it does the U.S. won’t stop with Ukraine, Georgia and Dagestan.
re_carn@reddit
That is his primary motivation in this war: first, the annexation of Crimea, which gave the old fool confidence in his own strength; then, the attempt to install a puppet president; and, when that failed, an attack aimed at seizing the country. Only instead of a blitzkrieg, it’s turning into a hundred-year war.
Sorry, but what exactly did the U.S. do to Ukraine? I mean, Russia is bombing cities and killing people - but what exactly did the U.S. do?
Salazarsims@reddit
Yeah tell me you huffing straight war propaganda.
His motivation for Crimea is simple it’s Russias main warm water naval base and the Crimean’s (who are mostly Russians) are and never have been happy about being in Ukraine.
Both sides have installed “puppets” in Ukraine.
They might well have to seize the country as the only way to stop the war. But don’t worry Centcom wants that to happen so the insurgents can begin with our original plan of a long blood insurgency.
re_carn@reddit
Since when has that been a legitimate reason to annex another country’s territory? In Russia, even discussing such a thing is a criminal offense.
But only one side started the war because it failed to achieve its goal.
Putin's death would also be a good way to end the war.
Is it the end of the workday?
Salazarsims@reddit
Omg you think international politics is based on legitimacy. It’s the law of the jungle.
The war was started by the west with their counter terrorism operation in 2015.
Putin death won’t change anything.
Yes. Is your Centcom/nafo shift over?
re_carn@reddit
Lol, why then did you mention "the Crimean’s (who are mostly Russians) are and never have been happy about being in Ukraine"?
And that’s exactly how it was: when armed terrorists invade a country and seize territory, a counterterrorism operation begins.
Only Putin wants this war; as soon as that bastard kicks the bucket, it will be over.
"North America", lol.
Brave-Battle-2615@reddit
Funny that’s what you’re doing, educating people about war crimes as an act of deflection. Check this out. Lock up Hegseth for is ineptitude, lock up Trump from his various crimes, and pull support for Israel.
Now you do Putin. Or will the FSB come knocking?
kapuh@reddit
So we're taking everybody hostage for the acts of their governments now? Your flair says Chad...
Valensre@reddit
So does them not being as bad as the US make them the 'good guys' or something?
That's your standard? You're paving a road to hell if so.
AntistanCollective@reddit
He’s not even correct, he’s lying. By all available metrics at this point, there are far more civilian casualties in Ukraine.
Azzagtot@reddit
Provide them, so we could all trace them back to Ukrainian sources who have no need to lie about such things.
AntistanCollective@reddit
Here's a recent UN report https://ukraine.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2026-04/Ukraine%20-%20protection%20of%20civilians%20in%20armed%20conflict%20%28March%20%202026%29_ENG.pdf
Azzagtot@reddit
My initial claim:
report you brought:
So, you brough up a report that confirms my Point of View.
AntistanCollective@reddit
OHCHR don't operate in the east, near the front lines or on the occupied territories where the most of the vast majority of civilian deaths happened. Take the siege of Mariupol, where all estimates are close to 100k+
OHCHR confirm this and also explicitly say the actual extent is likely considerably higher.
If you bothered to read the source instead of strawmaning, you'd see that this number doesn't say anything about the actual casualties in Ukraine.
But you're the same guy that was arguing that Russia did a "tactical withdrawal" in 2022 and that Ukraine didn't force them back.
4 Years later, the cope is still going, and you're still doing apologia for this war. This is extremely embarrassing considering that nobody, even the Z-Patriots, believe in this non-sense anymore.
Azzagtot@reddit
So, in other words you have nothing and you decided to ad hominem me.
:\^)
uxgpf@reddit
He has quite a lot. IMHO your head is just so thick that nothing sticks. Or it could be that you dodge all valid arguments on purpose.
It seems that you don't dicuss in good faith.
Azzagtot@reddit
All he have are speculations and assumptions.
Confirmed number of killed civilians is about 15.500 since 2022.
AntistanCollective@reddit
Why are you lying?
In Mariupol alone, there are estimates of hundred thousand+ civilian casualties. Uppsala Conflict Data Program, for example, estimates between 27,000 and 88,000 civilian deaths from the siege of this SINGLE city, 4 YEARS AGO.
But if we just count the "official" numbers, which have an unrealistic standard, considering the extent of Russian war crimes and targeting of civilians (you can't account for civilians in occupied territories), there are 56,550 casualties as counted by OHCHR. They themselves said that they believe the real number is higher.
https://ukraine.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/2026-04/Ukraine%20-%20protection%20of%20civilians%20in%20armed%20conflict%20%28March%20%202026%29_ENG.pdf
Azzagtot@reddit
Estimated by Ukraine? Same one that claimed countles thousands of children being kidnapped but when asked they provided list of only 339 kids?
https://mindev.gov.ua/en/news/mizhnarodna-spilnota-zaklykaie-rosiiu-nehaino-povernuty-ukrainskykh-ditei
I mean, why would Ukraine lie, right?
AntistanCollective@reddit
No. Do you even bother reading or comprehending anything? It's a multitude of sources, all conducted independently by UN.
Ukraine handed over an initial list of 339 children to Russia as the first step in the humanitarian track - a gesture of trust and an invitation to dialogue.
Your own source.
Russia corroborated these exact numbers. In fact, their numbers are way higher than Ukraine's initial estimates
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moscow-says-700000-children-ukraine-conflict-zones-now-russia-2023-07-03/
Is Russia lying too?
Azzagtot@reddit
I am defending evacuating children from war zone.
In case you did not know, Russia is one of the biggest recievers of refugees from Ukraine:
https://unric.org/en/ukraine-over-6-million-refugees-spread-across-europe
It's absolutely not surprising that Russia received 700k children as refugees.
But it seems like you are now trying to claim all refugees as kidnapped people.
Yet, when confronted about it - they provided a list of only 339 kids.
Which means Russia is returning Ukrainian kids to Ukraine, if paperwork is provided.
https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/zavdyaki-nashij-iniciativi-bring-kids-back-ua-vdalosya-zabez-104173
I am sure then you will easily provide us with link to such horrible site, right? No way this is a blatant propaganda about:
>muh ruzzian orcs literally trading child slaves.
AntistanCollective@reddit
No, you’re not. You’re redefining the issue. Evacuating children from a war zone means temporary safety measures with parental consent, clear records, and guaranteed return. That’s not what’s being disputed here.
No one is arguing against getting children out of danger. The argument is about whether those were lawful transfers or kidnappings with deportations. And they were clearly the latter because there is no accountability and contact with them.
Yes, civilians fled a war, and some ended up in Russia. That does not automatically mean every child was moved legally, voluntarily, or with parental consent. For children, that distinction is the entire issue.
Misleading framing, again. That was an initial list, made to get somewhere. The list presented during negotiations is not the total number of children affected. You are presenting a starting point as if it were a final count.
https://www.euronews.com/2025/06/04/ukraine-demands-return-of-children-taken-by-russia-how-did-kyiv-come-up-with-the-list
Here, you can read the official reasoning and explanation surrounding the ifs and whys, not that this particular strawman matters since Russia has boasted about hundreds of thousands of children transferred from Ukraine. It's no secret.
This literally proves the illegality of the transfers. These children were separated in the first place and then had to be traced, documented, and negotiated for one by one. If this were normal humanitarian evacuation, families would not need this kind of rescue process.
Another excellent defense. "Give me the site from 2 years ago or it's Ukrainian propaganda". Why don't you apply the same standards to Russia's claims? Why trust them on their word when all the documented evidence goes against it? Is it because they're on your side and you're just another ideologically captured campist?
Regardless, the information is out there. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1345973870217788&set=pcb.1345976453550863
Even if you want to debate one specific catalogue or one specific report, that does not erase the vast amount of evidence about children being transferred, documented, and repatriated under highly abnormal circumstances.
So no, your conclusion does not follow. You are taking a real fact, that some Ukrainians ended up in Russia, and using it to blur away the much more serious issue of children being transferred in ways that are under active investigation and widely condemned.
No one here, besides you, has this attitude.
Azzagtot@reddit
I am denying it's existance as it's propaganda tool. Ukrainian kids were transferred to Russia to keep them safe. Their relatives can request their return and Russia returns them.
You are providing such non-credible sources as facebook and wikipedia, and can't find this notorious Russian site where "kidnapped" kids are displayed like groceries.
Did it get somewhere or suddenly, when caught in a lie Ukrainian side desided to ignore it?
How do you do that in an ongoing conflict? Please, tell me. How do you imagine it happening?
What you are calling "illegal separation" is saving them from being wounded or killed. Should firefighters in your country ask for your written permission on relocating you from a burning building signed in 3 copies and verified by lawyers in court prior to taking action?
Russia acted in good faith, saving those kids and returning them to relatives, instead they are being demonised for it.
Yor should really visit r/worldnews or r/ukraine
HavokSupremacy@reddit
it's not restraints. it's inability. if they hit the nuclear powerplants, they 1. fuck themselves because of the air current moving the radiation over russian cities. 2. would possibly trigger a reaction from europe they are so afraid of.
the numbers of civilian causalities is that because Ukraine has been able to mount a somewhat working air defense and consistently shoot a lot of missiles down.
but yeah, by all means, keep defending Russia while it still has that name. Russia will retaliate by splintering itself again. watch. it's a matryoshka magic trick.
Azzagtot@reddit
Yeah, Russia is all out of missles. We've heard this one before.
You are also delusional in thinking about disabling NPPs. It's not leading to radiation leaks and Chernobyl over again.
>somewhat working air defense
According to Ukrainian MOD claiming 103 interceptions for 60 drones? It's as laughable as number of KIA Russians being somewhere around 1.3 million.
uxgpf@reddit
1.3 million estimated casualties is not KIA. It's casualties so: KIA+MIA+wounded.
However that is what UAF claims and wartime claims are just that, claims. We will know better after the war is over.
NomineAbAstris@reddit
Aside from what was already mentioned about air defence, there are \~4 million internally displaced persons (the vast majority of whom presumably fled west away from the major engagements) and \~6 million have left the country entirely. That makes it significantly easier to avoid civilian casualties compared to conflicts in a very small, essentially besieged territory such as Gaza. It's certainly not for lack of trying on the Russian military's part considering they are, four years in, still launching essentially random attacks against Ukrainian civilian targets that have no military value whatsoever.
Plus, as a clarifying point, the 15k number is essentially people who have been comprehensively verified by Ukraine to have died; as you can imagine death toll verification is extremely difficult under wartime conditions and the Ukrainians are not going to have sufficient access to the occupied territories (including several cities such as Mykolaiv) to establish it more clearly. So the actual death toll is absolutely higher, but since we can't know how much higher, 15k works for the moment.
re_carn@reddit
Are you kidding me? It’s only been a few months since Russia was destroying the heating and power infrastructure in Ukrainian cities during the cold snap. Caring about Ukrainian civilians, my ass. The propagandists have completely lost their minds.
Let me remind you that the people who have to fight for their country’s independence were once civilians too, and they aren’t dying because they wanted to play military games.
And that will be absolutely true.
Stix147@reddit
No, they do not, they have struck the Ukrainian NPPs repeatedly, they even struck the protective structure surrounding the Chornobyl plant. Actually destroying these structures would be catastrophic for Russia as well due to fallout, they already learned this lesson in the 80s.
Is there any reason why nobody who brings up this number ever mentions that this is simply the number of civilians killed who have been identified so far? Russia does not disclose information about killed Ukrainian civilians in the areas that they occupy, and according to organizations like the Uppsala Conflict Data Program, at least 28 thousand civilians died in Mariupol alone, with the highest estimates for just that city being 88 thousand plus. The actual number of civilians killed can easily exceed 100 thousand, but Ukraine will never know this until they take back all of their territory.
They do, daily. It's not retaliation though, as they started this war, it's simply state terrorism and if Ukrainian did not have one of the most advanced air defense systems in the world, the civilians casualties would easily be double the aforementioned number. The notion that Russis "holds back" is just a disgusting downplaying of their actions.
SuperKiller94@reddit
Oh yeah great deal of restraint only bombing apartment buildings and blowing up dams. Russia is so nice guys.
Eexoduis@reddit
Russia has targeted water production and treatment sites, most notably the Kakhovka dam, which caused major flooding downstream.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-023-01068-x
As per the casualty count, the siege of Mariupol is often excluded, but the Uppsala Conflict Data Program estimates between 27,000 and 88,000 civilian deaths from the siege alone.
Unlike Gaza and Sudan, the defenders have large militaries and powerful anti-air capabilities. Do not misconstrue Russian incompetence as generosity. You would never do the same for America or Israel.
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
Yep, Russia was bombing the fuck out of Ukraine industry and realized it wouldn't do anything because Zelenskyy doesn't actually care about Ukrainians lol
Hiddenz@reddit
No. It realised it wouldn't do anything because Ukrainians are tied to them country. They are not moving anywhere and they're ready to do what's necessary to resist tona terrorist country.
Zelensky has nothing to do with all that
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
They're so ready to resist that they have to be kidnapped off the streets and assaulted? Sure, man. Sounds like they don't want to fight and are being forced to by people like you.
Hiddenz@reddit
There's a thing you don't understand and that you never will. And I say this because you're the one giving lessons and assuming "people like me" ""forces"" shit up. So read up carefully because I am not going to comment further.
You never had real wars of your own. You don't know what is actually fighting for a country, defending for it's borders, refusing a corrupted system that Putin want to put in Ukraine. You have no god damn clue because your country is doing that since decades in other countries for their own interests. You guys only get into war for your own interests. Yeah and what did you think they did ? Send the Poors. We always get sent no matter what. No matter what happens your officials never will be sent. Your president didn't make his service. You think you're able to give lessons ? What did you do to change all that ?
And you take a marginal fucked up aspect of the war that no one want to have or like. Great. No one in Europe Never had sympathy for war, no one ever liked forced mobilisation, but it's a matter of surviving because the other guy facing you wants you gone. Us ? We want peace. We want Russians gone out of Ukraine. War isn't friendly, war isn't something you decide. Ukrainians are brave no matter what another shit comment you're about to make.
RoostasTowel@reddit
America wants to go back to its policy from before ww1.
Which would mean leaving NATO and the EU bases and leaving you to figure out your own wars.
But then everyone cries foul that the Usa isn't helping with the foreign wars enough already, what when they actually don't do anything?
qyy98@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
loggy_sci@reddit
“Ukrainians don’t actually want to defend Ukraine” is lazy Russian propaganda slop
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
Who's ready? The people of Ukraine or the politicians who don't have to worry about being kidnapped of the street and sent unwillingly to die?
loggy_sci@reddit
absolute bullshit propaganda per usual from you. You’re always in these threads regurgitating Kremlin talking points as part of your weird tankie bullshit.
Stop larping like you care about the working class when you support Russian imperialism. You support Russian oligarchs sending working class Russians to kill working class Ukrainians. Shame on you.
Hiddenz@reddit
No one is ever ready and would want war. None of the Ukrainian ever wanted that war. You think they had a choice ?
GerryAdamsSon@reddit
The Ukrainian working class definitely doesn't have a choice anymore because they're being forced to continue even though they want a negotiated solution according to all recent polls
Nobody in Ukraine is nobody in Ukraine is signing up for the Army voluntarily anymore, every single person is forced to fight a war they have no interest in
Hiddenz@reddit
So I can't say they're brave and heroic fighting a war they never wanted? I can't say that it's not up to zelensky but them ?
And of course they have an interest. Resisting to russian terrorists. Defend their borders, repulse the corruption that Russia is about to rebring if they take down their power. I'm not saying the government in place is that much better but you don't know Putin regime if you're saying it can't be better.
They never wanted that war, Putin wanted it. They don't want Russia and they kept proving they don't want that.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Ukraine's infrastructure is decentralized. Bombing it all is quite difficult because you need to hit so many separate smaller targets.
Russia's infrastructure in turn is really concentrated, meaning one hit can disrupt things much more.
Azzagtot@reddit
You do realise that both countries infrastructure was build by USSR, right?
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Russia has continued to sustain a more centralized system. Ukraine has renovated over the past years to build a more resilient system by contrast. Ukraine hasn't been ruled by Moscow for over 30 years.
Worth_Garbage_4471@reddit
"Ukraine" lol
NomineAbAstris@reddit
If you have sekrit dokuments showing that it's not actually Ukrainian strikes, please share with the class. Or are we to believe that the same states which have repeatedly shown their discomfort with direct attacks against Russian energy infrastructure are the real puppetmasters here?
Worth_Garbage_4471@reddit
Puerile. It's not a secret that "Ukraine" is not the one striking anything on its own. This is a fully NATO funded and guided war in "Ukraine".
https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/partnerships-and-cooperation/natos-support-for-ukraine
JoshTheMadtitan@reddit
There is a surprising amount of none Russians, or Russians pretending to be non Russians, that seem to be against Ukraine ITT.
Russian invaded another country. That is all this boils down to. How could anyone who is not Russia, rationalize or defend this?
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