Thats a no from me dog ! (Its neat i guess but for its weight and cost its not nearly the balance that one would hope for )
P.S. the ideal form of non Warsaw pact standard first world platforms is drum roll please the Hk G3 family roller delayed 7.62X39 rifle offered fairly unsuccessfully to cold war governments not ready to undertake local production or development of native weapons systems but sitting on stockpiles of soviet ammunition but aging soviet surplus small arms , I am not entirely sure of the nomenclature but i am fairly certain i remember a prototype version of the Ar 18 series chambered for soviet 7.62 intermediate i don’t really remember if it went passed a few handmade examples but clearly wasn’t a product folks were lining up for …South African prototype 7.62x39 assault rifles being a pariah renegade apartheid regime wasn’t always all flowers and readily adoptable military hardware because of their familiarity with the platform as well as doubts as to wether the Israeli production R5 series was a go especially considering they wanted delivery of the technical package ie the means of production of. A limited prototype 7.62x39 adaptation of the fn fal designed and at least initially limitedly manufactured in South Africa it offered a chance at real small arms production without royalties but the innately close tolerances required for a properly functioning fn fal made this an impractical solution despite the obvious advantage of being able to field captured ammunition from the various socialist guerrilla factions they engaged in near constant conflict with for decades
Is the point of this that the G3 would be a better rifle over this, I’m confused, the reason the 7.62 Bren was made is because the Czech Republic presumably has an ass load of 7.62 and/ or for export to neighboring former com-bloc countries. It’s priced similarly to a high end AK anyway, but with AR-like modularity
The g3 style 7.62X39 rifle was an attempt to offer something with better accuracy and ergonomics while capable of effective accessory deployment (aks under the best case scenario are a poor platform for optic mounting or really accessories of any sort the bren2 is most often offered in either 7.62X51 nato or 5.56 NATO the 7.62X39 i think is only fielded by French overseas counter terrorism units for easy access to ammo and as i said initially it’s really heavy and expensive to launch intermediate rounds that are not really capable of tackling driving accuracy and often are wildly variable in power , performance, construction…its too good a rifle to shoot this soviet shit
I’m unsure how an antiquated rifle like the G3 would be relevant to Czech arms procurement of the late 2000s, the VZ58 was fine enough to use until the Czech Republic joined NATO in ‘99
The point is that when there would have been a real use case for a non ak 7.62X39 platform the g3 would have been popping fresh and the bren 2 would be 25 or so years in the future…honestly neither were a particularly good solution and either sticking with legacy stuff or upgrading to purpose built intermediate caliber hardware that would be likely lighter, cheaper better suited to modern battle and simpler than either of these the real difference is that the bren 2 in addition to being overly expensive, heavy,complicated was at least 20 some odd years too late to make sense
The Bren 2 is as heavy as contemporary short stroke gas pistons based rifles like the HK416, and was adopted several years before a major military power saw widespread adoption of the 416. The Czech have kind of always been on the same curve as the Germans arms wise, at least since the 50s.
If you’re concerned about weight the PTR32 is almost a pound heavier than a 16.5 inch Bren 2 and is 3 pounds heavier than the VZ58
I get what you’re saying, better now. I mean ballistically x39 isn’t super far off from .300blk. I’m sure there are internal reasons CZ continues to make the x39 rifles I’m not privy to, like I said; it’s priced at the cost of a bougie AK and fulfills that same roll, similarly to the ACE in x39z
Thats pretty much it but even .300 blk was designed the way it was so that it could fit standard ar15 pattern lowers and magazines while offering more smack in hyper sonic loading and quiet capability while simply requiring an upper swap …if were unconstrained by the measurements of the M16 i might design something more efficient and offering additional capabilities
Part of that i think had to do with the fact that all of these designs having been derived from earlier designs when the idea of universal optics would have been seen as western decadence and ran counter to the motorized infantry supported armor doctrine that was favored nearly universally by real socialist armies (as opposed to paramilitary peoples resistance movements or insurgent guerrilla forces ) it was simply not in line with the inherited from the second war tactical doctrine if they spent 3 hours making excellent optics it was 3 skilled hours that could be spent making more iron sighted rifles where the problem was never in disposable manpower and often lacking in basic war material often employing huge secondary reserves to be issued upon mobilization
The VZ58 is a non-AK 7.62x39 rifle and was made and adopted at actually almost the same time as the G3. You may be correct for other Com-bloc nations but the Czech specifically haven’t ever had a problem with arms procurement
My point is why would anyone choose a service weapon in an antiquated sub par cartridge if they had a nearly infinite choice in the matter while certainly not rare 7.62 soviet only persists because of shrinking low cost low quality ammo stockpiles that Russia is even attending to leave in the past and this is a nation that still fields 150 year old 7.62X54 Russian rimmed for use in dragonov designated marksmanship platforms when 100 years ago it was already no longer desirable cartridge. They have a tendency to hold on to legacy cartridges because they have weapons or weapons because they have cartridges there are about 2 dozen reasons I wouldn’t use either soviet 7.62 rifle cartridges even 59 years ago
Well, we are making our own ammo in Vlašim by Sellier&Bellot and other companies. Even in times of communism. So we didnt have stockpiles of some low quality ammo. And I dont know where you heard that Russian ammo is low quality.
But yes, in Russia/Soviet union things got bit frozen in terms of weapons development. Like with Mosin, right?
But you have to consider how many people they needed to equip. They just run "If it works, dont change it" and goes with it.
But in general, I think that 7,62x39 is great cartridge and dont see reason why it should be considered outdated.
Its not that there is really anything wrong with it per se but more like we have 80 years of cartridge design and development since it was first made available just like the russian rimmed rifle ammo stalled weapon design because of the design limitations of the cartridge we have similar issues with 7.62 soviet intermediate …which was no accident it was because they were building mosin they had lots of mosin and began production on them before smokeless powder was widely available they had the machining and production setup and despite being somewhat anachronistic it was available then comes soviet needs to scale up production of pistols and submachine guns well long 7.62 barrels were in production for mosin and maxim guns as well as a few light machine guns each mosin barrel could be cut and used for 2 ppsh41 or 4 tokarev pistol barrels and and over again with 7.62 kurtz so because of scaled production you inherit the issues associated with older iterations the mosin 7.62 was rimmed they continued to be forced to design around rimmed cartridges which are notoriously difficult to use in self loading
Russian ammo is fairly variable as the product you could reasonably go out into the Ukrainian battlefield today and take 100 random rounds you would have production standards that run from world war 2 production dates steel cased and inconsistent , 60s production Albanian ,yugo or East German stuff that would likely rate as the most similar and functional of the available stuff to any number of production runs from anywhere from Cuba to North Korea using what was available for manufacturing bullets when people are starving its all very non standard
They are in nato, but when they were designing the 805 they were still using 7.62 vz58s fairly heavily and hadn't committed to fully switching to 5.56.
I am aware my point here is that in 7.62x39 the bren 2 was never widely adopted it only is in limited current issue with French overseas counter terrorism units and even that use is questionable at best and perhaps offers the french some plausible deniability when in big firefights where they probably shouldn’t be
The Bren 2 MS is an absolute vibe, but the 7.62x39 version is the 'high risk, high reward' play.
The Good: It’s basically a modernized AK with the ergonomics of an AR. Soft shooting, looks incredible with that ACR stock setup, and it’s way more balanced than a Galil.
The Reality: CZ had some legendary over-gassing issues with the early x39 models (leading to stovepipes and extraction failures). Most people fix it with an HBI gas regulator or by sending it back to CZ for the updated gas port service.
If it's the updated version, it’s a 10/10 'do-it-all' carbine. If it’s an old one... keep your local gunsmith’s number on speed dial! Still, 7.62 through a short-stroke piston is a cheat code for fun."
7k rounds with no issues is the ultimate green light. It sounds like CZ finally dialed in the gas ports on the newer batches. Honestly, at that round count, you’ve basically proven it’s as reliable as any high-end AR but with that short-stroke piston smoothness. Definitely makes me want to move a Bren 2 up to the top of my 'buy' list. Enjoy that lead slinger!"
I’d definitely recommend it, the only thing is it feels a bit more punchy compared to an AK, at least to me. Probably just comes down to the weight and barrel length.
That’s a fact. It’s way lighter than an AK, so you’re gonna feel that kick way more without all that extra weight to soak it up 💥💥💥. Appreciate the heads up on that—definitely something to think about . Good lookin' out.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
Thats a no from me dog ! (Its neat i guess but for its weight and cost its not nearly the balance that one would hope for ) P.S. the ideal form of non Warsaw pact standard first world platforms is drum roll please the Hk G3 family roller delayed 7.62X39 rifle offered fairly unsuccessfully to cold war governments not ready to undertake local production or development of native weapons systems but sitting on stockpiles of soviet ammunition but aging soviet surplus small arms , I am not entirely sure of the nomenclature but i am fairly certain i remember a prototype version of the Ar 18 series chambered for soviet 7.62 intermediate i don’t really remember if it went passed a few handmade examples but clearly wasn’t a product folks were lining up for …South African prototype 7.62x39 assault rifles being a pariah renegade apartheid regime wasn’t always all flowers and readily adoptable military hardware because of their familiarity with the platform as well as doubts as to wether the Israeli production R5 series was a go especially considering they wanted delivery of the technical package ie the means of production of. A limited prototype 7.62x39 adaptation of the fn fal designed and at least initially limitedly manufactured in South Africa it offered a chance at real small arms production without royalties but the innately close tolerances required for a properly functioning fn fal made this an impractical solution despite the obvious advantage of being able to field captured ammunition from the various socialist guerrilla factions they engaged in near constant conflict with for decades
IudexJudy@reddit
Is the point of this that the G3 would be a better rifle over this, I’m confused, the reason the 7.62 Bren was made is because the Czech Republic presumably has an ass load of 7.62 and/ or for export to neighboring former com-bloc countries. It’s priced similarly to a high end AK anyway, but with AR-like modularity
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
The g3 style 7.62X39 rifle was an attempt to offer something with better accuracy and ergonomics while capable of effective accessory deployment (aks under the best case scenario are a poor platform for optic mounting or really accessories of any sort the bren2 is most often offered in either 7.62X51 nato or 5.56 NATO the 7.62X39 i think is only fielded by French overseas counter terrorism units for easy access to ammo and as i said initially it’s really heavy and expensive to launch intermediate rounds that are not really capable of tackling driving accuracy and often are wildly variable in power , performance, construction…its too good a rifle to shoot this soviet shit
IudexJudy@reddit
I’m unsure how an antiquated rifle like the G3 would be relevant to Czech arms procurement of the late 2000s, the VZ58 was fine enough to use until the Czech Republic joined NATO in ‘99
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
The point is that when there would have been a real use case for a non ak 7.62X39 platform the g3 would have been popping fresh and the bren 2 would be 25 or so years in the future…honestly neither were a particularly good solution and either sticking with legacy stuff or upgrading to purpose built intermediate caliber hardware that would be likely lighter, cheaper better suited to modern battle and simpler than either of these the real difference is that the bren 2 in addition to being overly expensive, heavy,complicated was at least 20 some odd years too late to make sense
IudexJudy@reddit
The Bren 2 is as heavy as contemporary short stroke gas pistons based rifles like the HK416, and was adopted several years before a major military power saw widespread adoption of the 416. The Czech have kind of always been on the same curve as the Germans arms wise, at least since the 50s.
If you’re concerned about weight the PTR32 is almost a pound heavier than a 16.5 inch Bren 2 and is 3 pounds heavier than the VZ58
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
And in any modern cartridge its a very fine if somewhat expensive platform in 7.62 soviet intermediate it offers nothing unique and lots of negatives
IudexJudy@reddit
I get what you’re saying, better now. I mean ballistically x39 isn’t super far off from .300blk. I’m sure there are internal reasons CZ continues to make the x39 rifles I’m not privy to, like I said; it’s priced at the cost of a bougie AK and fulfills that same roll, similarly to the ACE in x39z
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
Thats pretty much it but even .300 blk was designed the way it was so that it could fit standard ar15 pattern lowers and magazines while offering more smack in hyper sonic loading and quiet capability while simply requiring an upper swap …if were unconstrained by the measurements of the M16 i might design something more efficient and offering additional capabilities
Hunter_of_Republic@reddit
G3 is heavy bi*ch. VZ58 is great weapon in 7,62x39. Even if you look at pictures of our Czech soldiers in Afganistan, they carry VZs.
What I never get, is why our nation never upgrade the design. Better scope mount options, etc Even after revolution in 1989 they did nothing to it.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
Part of that i think had to do with the fact that all of these designs having been derived from earlier designs when the idea of universal optics would have been seen as western decadence and ran counter to the motorized infantry supported armor doctrine that was favored nearly universally by real socialist armies (as opposed to paramilitary peoples resistance movements or insurgent guerrilla forces ) it was simply not in line with the inherited from the second war tactical doctrine if they spent 3 hours making excellent optics it was 3 skilled hours that could be spent making more iron sighted rifles where the problem was never in disposable manpower and often lacking in basic war material often employing huge secondary reserves to be issued upon mobilization
IudexJudy@reddit
The VZ58 is a non-AK 7.62x39 rifle and was made and adopted at actually almost the same time as the G3. You may be correct for other Com-bloc nations but the Czech specifically haven’t ever had a problem with arms procurement
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
The vs was fine i own one its main issue was it wasn’t an ak or even ak rugged but also suffered nearly all the shortcomings baked into ak platforms
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
The Czech Republic is nato aligned the currently issue 5.56
Hunter_of_Republic@reddit
Yes, but we make Brens in 7,62x39 too. More for the civil market, not for the army. But we were using 7,62x39 even until like 2020.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
My point is why would anyone choose a service weapon in an antiquated sub par cartridge if they had a nearly infinite choice in the matter while certainly not rare 7.62 soviet only persists because of shrinking low cost low quality ammo stockpiles that Russia is even attending to leave in the past and this is a nation that still fields 150 year old 7.62X54 Russian rimmed for use in dragonov designated marksmanship platforms when 100 years ago it was already no longer desirable cartridge. They have a tendency to hold on to legacy cartridges because they have weapons or weapons because they have cartridges there are about 2 dozen reasons I wouldn’t use either soviet 7.62 rifle cartridges even 59 years ago
Hunter_of_Republic@reddit
Well, we are making our own ammo in Vlašim by Sellier&Bellot and other companies. Even in times of communism. So we didnt have stockpiles of some low quality ammo. And I dont know where you heard that Russian ammo is low quality.
But yes, in Russia/Soviet union things got bit frozen in terms of weapons development. Like with Mosin, right? But you have to consider how many people they needed to equip. They just run "If it works, dont change it" and goes with it.
But in general, I think that 7,62x39 is great cartridge and dont see reason why it should be considered outdated.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
Its not that there is really anything wrong with it per se but more like we have 80 years of cartridge design and development since it was first made available just like the russian rimmed rifle ammo stalled weapon design because of the design limitations of the cartridge we have similar issues with 7.62 soviet intermediate …which was no accident it was because they were building mosin they had lots of mosin and began production on them before smokeless powder was widely available they had the machining and production setup and despite being somewhat anachronistic it was available then comes soviet needs to scale up production of pistols and submachine guns well long 7.62 barrels were in production for mosin and maxim guns as well as a few light machine guns each mosin barrel could be cut and used for 2 ppsh41 or 4 tokarev pistol barrels and and over again with 7.62 kurtz so because of scaled production you inherit the issues associated with older iterations the mosin 7.62 was rimmed they continued to be forced to design around rimmed cartridges which are notoriously difficult to use in self loading
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
Russian ammo is fairly variable as the product you could reasonably go out into the Ukrainian battlefield today and take 100 random rounds you would have production standards that run from world war 2 production dates steel cased and inconsistent , 60s production Albanian ,yugo or East German stuff that would likely rate as the most similar and functional of the available stuff to any number of production runs from anywhere from Cuba to North Korea using what was available for manufacturing bullets when people are starving its all very non standard
Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit
They are in nato, but when they were designing the 805 they were still using 7.62 vz58s fairly heavily and hadn't committed to fully switching to 5.56.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
I am aware my point here is that in 7.62x39 the bren 2 was never widely adopted it only is in limited current issue with French overseas counter terrorism units and even that use is questionable at best and perhaps offers the french some plausible deniability when in big firefights where they probably shouldn’t be
Flashy_Inspector115@reddit
A nightmare reading this. This needs periods.
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
I apologize i am profoundly dyslexic ,if i hit a rhythm its easy to forget to go back and properly punctuate . My bad
Flashy_Inspector115@reddit
No problem. I appreciate your understanding
Electronic_Camera251@reddit
I think i mostly fixed it
Hunter_of_Republic@reddit
Je to krasavec, nic jiného napsat nejde 😉
Phoenixcats@reddit
It’s a very good looking gun!
PanJezevec@reddit (OP)
Thanky you, bud :)
BlueOrb07@reddit
What muzzle device is that?
PanJezevec@reddit (OP)
Just same AK muzzle tho. Im not sure now.
LiquidC001@reddit
What gun is this by the way??
PanJezevec@reddit (OP)
CZ Bren 2 Ms / 7,62x39
rudevocab@reddit
The Bren 2 MS is an absolute vibe, but the 7.62x39 version is the 'high risk, high reward' play. The Good: It’s basically a modernized AK with the ergonomics of an AR. Soft shooting, looks incredible with that ACR stock setup, and it’s way more balanced than a Galil. The Reality: CZ had some legendary over-gassing issues with the early x39 models (leading to stovepipes and extraction failures). Most people fix it with an HBI gas regulator or by sending it back to CZ for the updated gas port service. If it's the updated version, it’s a 10/10 'do-it-all' carbine. If it’s an old one... keep your local gunsmith’s number on speed dial! Still, 7.62 through a short-stroke piston is a cheat code for fun."
PanJezevec@reddit (OP)
Running a newer version here, ~7k rounds in and zero problems so far.🫡
rudevocab@reddit
7k rounds with no issues is the ultimate green light. It sounds like CZ finally dialed in the gas ports on the newer batches. Honestly, at that round count, you’ve basically proven it’s as reliable as any high-end AR but with that short-stroke piston smoothness. Definitely makes me want to move a Bren 2 up to the top of my 'buy' list. Enjoy that lead slinger!"
PanJezevec@reddit (OP)
I’d definitely recommend it, the only thing is it feels a bit more punchy compared to an AK, at least to me. Probably just comes down to the weight and barrel length.
ralphbuffalo@reddit
Dawg you're talking to chatGPT
ieatchinesebabys@reddit
Ts straight up ai dribble 😭😭😭
rudevocab@reddit
That’s a fact. It’s way lighter than an AK, so you’re gonna feel that kick way more without all that extra weight to soak it up 💥💥💥. Appreciate the heads up on that—definitely something to think about . Good lookin' out.