Please help finish convincing me restoring this Flicka is a nightmare project
Posted by gammalbjorn@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 12 comments
I'm very interested in owning a Flicka. They seem to have a lot of versatility and a sense of minimalism that I admire.
I'm working on finding on one that is not derelict to check out, but today I took a look at one that is, because the guy was available and I was passing nearby. It's available for $2500 (these are currently going for $20-25k) and for very good reason.
This is the 20th of 20 units briefly made by Nor'Star before the molds went to Pacific Sea Craft. Current owner heard it was possibly built by an employee who I suppose wanted to build theirs while they could. It's got an unusual cockpit that's clearly custom and I'm sure other customizations I'd notice if I knew the boat better. Current owner bought it 8 months ago from a guy who neglected it since 2017.
The worst problem by far is that the cockpit is basically rotten through. A good summary is that more or less every surface visible in the photo below has extensive rot.
There are also a few square feet of rot around the foredeck hatch, and a soft spot on the starboard side deck near the cockpit. Unsurprisingly the cabin's in rough shape. It probably already was before current owner let it flood last winter. Also... there's coolant in there? Ugh.
I think the cockpit would be better off with a full rebuild, if that's even done. I haven't found any examples in some early searching. I'm talking like, tear it down to the hull and rebuild a new cockpit from scratch. As much work as that would be there just seems to be too much damage to patch.
I didn't get as much time with the hull. The hull is solid glass though. It's got an encapsulated keel. I'd obviously want to check out the bottom if I went any further but I don't see much reason to suspect it's as bad as the topside.
Standing rigging looks ok. One sail is pretty stained which worries me a bit. Didn't unfold them all the way. I think basically all the rigging was taken off and stored. Mast is still at the previous owner's home, oddly.
I'm told the engine has a scored cylinder that needs boring. I'm not as scared of the engine work as I have more experience there. Not marine, but I feel pretty confident I'd figure it out.
Look, I get it. I'm probably not gonna do it. But I'm curious if anyone would actually consider this project. I'm 31, a recently unemployed mechanical engineer with good tools, space to work, and time on my hands. Then again, I've never done fiberglass work; I have a pretty good understanding of the principles but no hands-on experience other than observing a few projects over the years.
So, this is a disaster and I need to save up and get one in good condition right? It feels like buying the first half of a boat-building project. Thank you for indulging my fantasy, let the roast begin.
[Chunks of rotten wood inside aft lazarette]()
[Foredeck hatch from below]()
Proper_Possible6293@reddit
As someone in the midst of a project of similar scope, for what you would spend in effort an money sorting this out you could have something way better than a Flicka when you are done.
As someone who cruised on a very small (but bigger than a Flicka) boat for years, 25k for a Flicka is nuts, even if it's perfect, so many better options in that price range that will let you stand up and carry a reasonable amount of supplies while going faster than 2 knots.
gammalbjorn@reddit (OP)
Yeah I would imagine so. It's easy to imagine the effort but I imagine the cost of parts and consumables is probably gonna eat up a lot of your savings as well. What else would you recommend looking at? I haven't found anything else quite like it, and the trailer option is appealing.
youngrichyoung@reddit
In that 20' range, there are the Nordica 20 and Halman 20, which are basically the same boat. Half the displacement of the Flicka, so much easier to tow and faster in the water. They are probably less seaworthy than the Flicka, as they show higher capsize screening numbers.
Com-Pac made a number of small cruising boats that are also half the weight of the Flicka, quicker, and a little less seaworthy.
If you allow yourself to move up a bit, there are a ton of (for example) Alberg designs from Pearson, Cape Dory and other builders in the 23-30' range. The Pearson Ariel (26') and Triton (28') and Cape Dory 25D and 28 are probably the most realistic options. Tritons have circumnavigated, and at ~7500# are probably at the upper limit of owner trailer-ability. They would require an F350 or Sprinter 3500 to do the job.
You haven't said what your intended use for this thing is. If you want a pocket cruiser you can tow someplace and enjoy for a week, then tow home, and you prefer a full, fixed keel, I would steer you toward the lighter and shallower boats like the Nordica, Com-Pac, or a (lighter but not shallower) 23-25' Alberg design. Launching a fixed keel boat from a trailer is not a ton of fun, and towing a 5500# load is no joke. Every inch of draft matters on the boat ramp.
If you just want a weekender you can store in your driveway, OMG get something with a swing keel. It's so much easier to launch and recover, and they are generally much lighter. The fixed keel people I knew at my old inland lake stomping grounds were all in the marina or on moorings, launching and recovering only once per year. And they sailed a lot more than those of us who had to trailer and launch and rig the boat every outing.
If you want to do serious passages, that's where the seaworthiness issues I raised with the Nordica and Com-Pac start to matter. I'd steer you toward the bigger full keel boats in that case, but there's a real trade-off in trailer capability.
And look, you don't have to have a full keel to go to sea. There are plenty of decent fin keel boats in your price range which are capable of any of these use cases. You might want to do some sailing in Other People's Boats and see what features you like before you buy.
gammalbjorn@reddit (OP)
Well I should clarify that my goal with the trailer is to minimize ongoing and committed expenses. I have land where I can store a trailered boat 25 miles from the nearest steep ramp pretty much indefinitely. It's really important to me that I can get my boat on the hard cheaply and quickly because my income and lifestyle tend to fluctuate pretty wildly (I have worked almost exclusively for startup companies that tend to cave in unexpectedly). So trailering should be very infrequent, but I want it to be pretty painless. I don't want to phone a friend or pay $1000 when the time comes, even if it means a more expensive boat upfront. I have a Sprinter 3500 that should be quite capable of trailering the Flicka. The larger class of boats really appeal to me, but I think 7,000+ lb displacement plus trailer weight would be beyond the Sprinter's ability to retrieve, if not tow.
My near term plan would be mostly sailing on and around SF Bay. It would also be a place to stay overnight in the Bay, where I rent and work on and off but maintain no permanent residence. I have longer range ambitions to take it out on the Pacific coast. Who knows if it would ever happen, but the fact that I could conceivably haul the Flicka to the Atlantic and take her to Europe is, if nothing else, a very fun dream to entertain. So the seaworthiness of the Flicka is a huge appeal. I don't feel the need for a boat that is easier to trailer, so much as I want something small with maximal seaworthiness. And the Flicka seems to be at the extreme end of those two qualities.
I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative - it's great to discuss and have my reasoning critiqued by others. I will certainly look into the Nordica and Halman. I've discussed going in on a heavy towing pickup with my family, which might open up some of the larger boats. But the Flicka just checks so many boxes. It's easy to see why they are sort of a cult classic.
Westar-35@reddit
This will cost you significantly more than the $20-25k you referenced for a decent shape one.
gammalbjorn@reddit (OP)
I suspected as much. Thanks for reinforcing.
johnbro27@reddit
This looks like it could turn into the kind of thing my late brother experienced with his Bristol 29, brought it home on a trailer to his house for a one year refit; 10+ years later he died before he was even half finished. His widow was lucky to find someone to take her off her hands (he had completed the exterior and spars work, but had cut the liner out of the interior so she was basically gutted). Mission creep--chances are you're going to find more rot that can't be fixed and the rot you know about will be far far more work and money than you think and you will have this like a albatross hanging around your neck.
Redfish680@reddit
“Unemployed” and “fixer upper” should never be used in the same sentence.
Anstigmat@reddit
Run as far and as fast as you can. You won’t be restoring this boat, you’ll be building it new.
It’s a buyers market.
jfinkpottery@reddit
The boat's previous owner: Theseus.
IndyBananaJones2@reddit
That's a huge no from me. You can get a lot of good boats for under 25k.
I paid like 23k for my first boat (Baba 30) which was in good, seaworthy shape.
The big question to ask yourself is if you want a boat to work on, or a boat to sail /live on.
FairSeafarer@reddit
Cockpit is rotten through? Don’t, just don’t. Only take this boat if someone pays you to take it. I’m serious…
You will put so much money and time into this boat. Why not put a bit more on the table from the get go and do it with another boat, just somewhat bigger, more comfy, that you could perhaps, keep in the family or have to actually go places where you sleep in it, do a bit of exploring in glamping comfort… the price difference and time investment won’t be that much different, that’s a promise.