Starting to not feel at home anywhere..
Posted by TravelingGoon@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 68 comments
I’m an American and have been working remote for a few years. I’ve lived in many places for months at a time. Mexico is probably the place I feel most at home, but recently I feel like even in Mexico, locals are tired of expats. I see their frustrations to a certain extent. They believe we cause inflation in the local environment with food, rent, etc. I’ve read similar posts from other expats all over the world. Is there any places left where people don’t react this way?
CuriosTiger@reddit
Places where people don't react this way?
Places where people don't react this way which are convenient and desirable for English-speaking expats? Less so.
NotASpyJustExpat@reddit
What in your mind would make somewhere feel "like home"? I think that's an important question
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
Sense of connection to the culture is the biggest for me. I do try to immerse myself and learn the language wherever I go. I think the overall vibe of a place can give that feeling
CapableQuiet9373@reddit
Panama. Would be an easy transition for you too.
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
When I moved abroad I lived the way locals did, I worked the same jobs, lived in the same housing as locals. I had to learn local language because we had no other common language to use. I married local. We raised kids here. They went to the same public schools as their neighborhood friends. I don’t remember an exact moment I started feeling at home, but it was about two decades ago ( maybe 5 years after I moved?…
Hairless_Gash@reddit
~~r/expat~~ r/immigrant
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
This sub uses terms an immigrant and an expat interchangeably.
I do feel that OP’s goal is to permanently settle in foreign country, even though on paper it looks like they belong in category of people who tend to be called “expats”
Hairless_Gash@reddit
I believe it's all about the intention. Expats historically had a greater purpose, such as to represent their government, company, or even themselves if there was a great a purpose, they kept ties to home and ultimately intended to return.
A lot of people especially where I am now in Vietnam call themselves expatriates for two reasons, they don't seem to know what the word historically men hear others mistakenly use it cuz they didn't know, and the other reason is it makes them so feel better about often a disappointing situation that has led them to where they are with little hope in returning.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
This is my goal as soon as I find a place that feels right. Where did you end up putting roots down?
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
I can’t expect for some unfamiliar place full of unfamiliar people to feel right. It is only after have lived there long enough to become sufficiently familiar with country and people I will feel comfortable and at ease.
Good luck
Big_Rip_4020@reddit
Whole world is sick of Americans.
ecjerome@reddit
I’m American and I’m sick of Americans
Christian_Prepper@reddit
same.
GeneSpecialist3284@reddit
Belize. The people here are so kind. No one is mad at me because I'm from the US. Most people here don't pay attention to US policies and happenings. The national language is English so it's easy mode. This is home now for me.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
Interesting, never been to Belize
GeneSpecialist3284@reddit
Come and explore.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
I think I will
Fit_Cardiologist_681@reddit
You carry the US reputation with you, and that reputation has plummeted in the past year and a half. It's probably not the whole effect you're observing, but for sure part of it. Some people think that the contrast between your gleeful globetrotting and your elected government gleefully jailing people just like you from other countries is pretty messed up.
mmswitz@reddit
"People just like you"? Do you think the OP is an illegal alien?
SnooCapers6553@reddit
You think ICE is only arresting illegals?
Fit_Cardiologist_681@reddit
No idea, but either way governments determine the legal status of their non-citizen residents. You can be legal one day and illegal the next without actually doing anything wrong.
winery_bound_expat@reddit
this hits different from the other side. i'm still in the US planning a move to italy and honestly the thing that gives me confidence is having one very specific place in mind, not country-shopping. everyone i've talked to who actually settled somewhere picked a place for a reason and committed to it. learning the language, same coffee bar every morning, that kind of thing.
i think the anti-expat frustration is mostly aimed at people who treat countries like airbnbs. if you're actually integrating and contributing to the local community it's a different dynamic.
DumpsterSlunt@reddit
Mexicans are increasingly tired of gringos who are only there for lifestyle arbitrage, with no interest in speaking Spanish or learning how to Mexico. For gringos who do speak Spanish and have learned how to Mexico, it's still a fantastically welcoming place.
isthisreallife080@reddit
Immigration is, and always has been, a double-edged sword. It can stimulate local economies, fill job shortages, and create cultural diversity (which lots of people see as a good thing). It can also increase resource scarcity, often in housing, increase the cost of living without increasing wages, and create cultural diversity (which lots of people see as a bad thing).
Things are rarely black and white, and we are in a period of increased economic instability globally, which has pretty much always led to anti-immigrant sentiment.
You’re not going to find anywhere where everyone is totally happy to have you. And being American is particularly contentious right now. But don’t let some sensationalized media and a couple of irritating comments from strangers outweigh the positive human connections you’ve made along the way.
Fabulous_Regret9400@reddit
true man
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
Agreed.
mango89001@reddit
It’s not just an international thing - this happens everywhere because average culture is victimhood based and people like to blame others for their problem. I have lived in the Bay Area where people said the same about “bad tech people making life expensive”! Then in Portugal, same story. Now I’m in Texas, and it’s “the Californians are ruining it!” And even back in my home country, people find others to blame (mostly immigrants too).
Then you know, even if you were from the place, if you became successful, people who are worse off become jealous and start blaming you for their problems too. You just can’t win against people attached to being victims.
The point is: what you’re experiencing isn’t about you or where you live, it’s about people not taking responsibility for their lives and pointing fingers. Those who do take responsibility, have a growth mindset, and build a life that they like - do not waste time engaging in this BS.
Maybe to feel home you just need to be around more people like that, and ignore the noise.
fertthrowaway@reddit
Yeah same with living in the Bay Area. The '"natives" blame all their problems on the "transplants". In general,generational locals in a place that's booming will perceive that outsiders are increasing their rent and stealing their idyllic nostalgia of the past, when the world had 1/3rd the current population, everywhere. Remote workers are the latest layer and they are going to popular still cheaper spots that don't necessarily have jobs, earning all outside money, so of course it will be hated by everyone who doesn't directly benefit. As a Jew, we've have been hated for millennia basically for the same reason. A very old "transplant" diaspora that resisted fully integrating, that everyone can blame all their problems on. The only solution is individually and generationally integrating until you're a "native" now complaining yourself about "transplants" lol.
mango89001@reddit
Exactly. Nostalgia and complaints are the keywords. And it is indeed as old as the world. People felt things were better before, and blamed newcomers/change since the beginning of times. Despite the fact that it’s often these newcomers and/or change that ultimately benefits the area.
But as I said it’s not just if you’re a foreigner. Because even in my home country in Europe, people in the small villages will blame people from the big cities for increasing their real estate prices.
A lot of that loser mentality has been around forever but it’s been particularly cultivated by populist media in the last couple decades for sure.
SiebenSevenVier@reddit
Everything's going to be fine again as soon as we get the new passports with Trump's face on them. Get ready for them Mexicans to start receiving you with arms wide open 👍
beginswithanx@reddit
Is your impression that locals are frustrated with expats formed from personal experience with the people around you? Or from what you read online and see on the news?
caminantedecalles@reddit
The whole gentrification/gringo narrative in Mexico and latam feels somewhat strange. Traditionally, its the conservative/working class that start believing that racism/xenophobia is the answer, but here it is the other way around.
It's mostly fresas/liberals who have embraced hating foreigners as their ideal.
I also haven't run into any of it in real life, despite a decade in Mexico. In truth there's next to zero foreigners in Mexico. Something like 0,1 %.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
I speak from personal experiences but also reading about others here. My personal experiences were not that bad but still worth mentioning. I would have to say the worst was in Costa Rica. I stayed in a small village outside of San Jose for 2 months. While most locals were friendly, some older gentlemen made remarks around me assuming I didnt know spanish. Similar situation in Colombia.
Bullsell@reddit
Yeah we are tired of gentrification in Costa Rica.
beginswithanx@reddit
Honestly xenophobic jerks exist everywhere. I ignore them in my home country as well as my new country.
Making in a community, putting down roots, getting to know people, etc makes a place feel like home. If you like Mexico, you can stay long term, speak the language, etc, why not give it a go? It takes time to make a place feel like home, wherever that is.
Difficult-Rip7732@reddit
A bit off topic, but is the work culture really that toxic in Japan as the internet portrays?
RaisePuzzleheaded201@reddit
Because you do, what did you expect? Expats move to economically weaker regions of the world, where their income is at times 5-6x higher than the median local income, spend most of their money at expat-run businesses, pricing out the locals in the process and thus inflating the cost of living for them in general?
You can't be a neo-coloniser and then bitch about the locals getting sick and tired of this. (Not saying that you are, just in general).
Sadly most expats don't give a shit about the local population, they merely care about their own pockets and well-being.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
I see your argument here but how is that different than rich locals living in those same communities that spend money in their local economy? I contribute to the local economy just like everyone else. If local land owners raise prices/rent because of a few expats in town, that’s greed on their part. Like I said, im only seeing this type of sentiment recently. A few years back I had great relationships with locals that appreciated expats arriving and contributing to the local economy
RaisePuzzleheaded201@reddit
There's no difference brother. Perhaps money is the issue here, not necessarily where you're from. Could also be that some of the local population are jealous of the wealthier ones as well. I think there are many different issues here at play. Good on you for contributing to the local economy though, not many do 👍🏼
Such-Caterpillar-564@reddit
I come from a poorer EU country and we absolutely loved the rich western tourists especially in the early 2000’s. It really helped locals. Some people are unfortunately too greedy and inflated their prices while the service provided sucks. I hate those people.
Fondacey@reddit
Raising rent because you can get it is the basic principal of capitalism. Unless you think capitalism is the same as greed, it's unfair to label the landlords raising rents as greedy. They are only doing what anyone in the business of doing business would and should do.
If you support the economic concept of supply and demand, then it's easy to understand why the influx of expats are the actual cause for higher local costs for everyone.
I'm going to charge as much as I can as a business owner, unless I specifically want to charitably support (and therefore subsidize) a specific group
xoensan@reddit
There is a difference. Locals work and spend. Expats/ retirees that do not work in the country just income, they do not bring labour. Goods rise but not salaries. If there are a few expats/ retirees, no ones notices. If a lot come, gentrification becomes more evident.
formerlyfed@reddit
It’s an in group / out group thing. People don’t like out groups
SicParvisMagnaaa@reddit
It's similar but different. Rich locals are seen to have skin in the game and deep local ties, and while they're rich but still part of the same culture. Whereas expats are seen as transitory but still leaving a lasting impact. It's different when expats are less common in a spot, that's when they're more of a curiosity, but if there's an entire community like in Mexico City tensions begin to surface.
SpookyPlatypus9630@reddit
The difference is the culture traditions. When swarms of immigrants come to a low income country they bring their own values that change the way of life for the country. They become the priority. The rich man is an asshole doing the same but he grew up there. He lives in the culture and won't change it.
Top-Half7224@reddit
This is a narrative repeated by the right in western countries. Scapegoating foreigners for problems that are directly related to policies that reduce the rights and incomes of the working class in order to benefit the rich. Rents and costs of living are going up in places with high numbers of foreigners and low.
"Expats" can be higher or lower earning, or they may move for interest, love, career, or education. They are not "neo-colinisers". Welcome to the 21st century which is a very globilized, complicated world. The highest number of immigrants globally are from impoverished countries trying to keep their families from starving to death. Wealthy people are going to go where the friction is lowest, that will never change unless all countries were to overhaul their socioeconomic policies. Unlikely.
It can feel satisfying venting your frustration on an easy target, especially as American politics are particularly toxic at the moment, but it actually perpetuates ignorance and xenophobia and if you truly are a decent human being you will see it is counterproductive for everyone.
Hairless_Gash@reddit
Speak for yourself, lots of us expatriated to Switzerland
antiputer@reddit
Anywhere
Liljagare@reddit
Move to a big city. Not as cheap but people in most big cities in Europe won't really care. In cheaper areas, I understand the locals (such as in Teneriffe. Housing prices have rocketed there).
Fondacey@reddit
Most European countries (definitely any in the EU) require resident visas so the length of stay will be limited to 3-6 months. I'm guessing OP wants somewhere that is easier to establish a longer residency?
MackinacFleurs@reddit
I think integration to the language, culture and society is the key.
Tardislass@reddit
Not everyone is going to like you. No one will care that your leaving America because of Trump and that you call yourself a good American. And no place is perfect. If you want to start feeling at home you need to put down roots and live someplace for years.
albetins@reddit
Even if you try to adapt, in the long-term you'll only ever truly feel at home in America.
Bertolandia@reddit
They are probably tired of USians, not expats more generally…
Top-Half7224@reddit
It is a common narrative right now because it appeals to angry people who want someone to blame for the way the world is becoming more challenging and can't understand the bigger picture. Especially online.
If you engage with decent, educated people, most of them wont see you this way, as long as you are respectful and conscious of your habits in relation to the local culture.
To your initial question though, some places just dont feel like home, no matter how good they look on paper. If you have given it a few months and aren't feeling it, maybe there is a better fit for you. Good luck.
euRAZER@reddit
Well, if you start every conversation the same as you did here "I'm an American...." that might be an issue. You guys have a bit of an image problem the last year or so. Not saying you are a problem, living outside the US probably makes you not a Trump voter, but the way the world looks at the US in general has dropped a bit.
Notamaga_6629@reddit
If you've settled your an immigrant. Expat is just another word for same. Interesting most saying expat instead of immigrant. That said until 2024 this wasn't an issue. When the US started treating immigrants so badly, from beatings in street, detention, sent to other countries, etc, no one gave this a thought. I moved to UK, and it's a melting pot here. There is Islamaphobia and some anti-Semitism but it's not totally immigrant related as many were born here or came from a colony.
Fluffy_Fun_9814@reddit
Im so jealous of you. I think its kind of you to care too.
I think as long as you help local businesses or volunteer, thats something to contribute.
I agree with the other commenter that said he just made roots.
BlackNRedFlag@reddit
America is two continents
Broad-Cress-3689@reddit
North America is a continent. South America is a continent. Together, they are referred to as ‘the Americas.’ There is no continent called “America”.
Rather it is the colloquial name of the United States of America, just as Mexico is the colloquial name of the United States of Mexico.
BlackNRedFlag@reddit
No, do you know what it sounds like to other people from the countries of the Americas? It sounds so stereotypical that people from estados unidos are THE Americans.
No-Meat-1439@reddit
I’m starting to see it as a spectrum. The places with the most growing pains mixed with wealth inequality and you’re definitely going to see or feel the resentment.
Then the further away you get from these destinations you start to lose your amenities and people that are bilingual.
I agree about the other comment about victimhood is everywhere. People blaming foreigners rather than their own government. It absolutely is everywhere. Even in the small town in the U.S. I came from with shrinking population they blame “the Californians.”
Then you have social media putting the most inflammatory content in front of everyone for clicks. Comment sections that are insane. This “internet culture” leaks into real life.
Limp-Particular1451@reddit
Will there ever be place where literally every person is happe because you are there ? No dude, utopia is not a thing.
TravelingGoon@reddit (OP)
Damn, really? I thought I was a ray of sunshine at every place I visit. I must re-evaluate my life now lol
Limp-Particular1451@reddit
You may be ray of sunshine wherever you are, just don't expect everyone around you to shoot fucking rainbow out of their ass because they met you.
Gatitochikito@reddit
Ecuador is an excellent choice. Of course, you have to know where to go. The best place for expats is the province of Imbabura. A significant number of indigenous communities live in this area. They are very friendly and welcoming toward expats because expats greatly value and appreciate the indigenous people’s cultural traditions. This makes sense, since some white Ecuadorians look down on indigenous people. This country offers a major advantage for expats due to its low cost of living and affordable housing. There are small towns where expats find support groups and a peaceful environment. There, they help one another and you can find some Ecuadorians who are eager to help (like myself).
Btw I´m selling an affordable house in Imbabura. Let me know if you´re interested.
Previous_Award6250@reddit
Because you do??? Go home? lol
cyclicalfertility@reddit
I didn't feel at home anywhere when i first moved abroad. Now i have a whole life built in the new place. If you can, i recommend puiting roots down somewhere. Most countries have a hate/love relationship with immigrants,i wouldn't worry too much about that.