Do you think there’s a noticable difference in cultures between Orthodox & Catholic Balkan countries? Which one of these two groups do you think is culturally more closely related to Western Europe & which one to Eastern Europe?
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 195 comments
RecordIcy5375@reddit
O kar ku eshte Kosova?
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 3 of r/AskBalkans "No agenda pushing". We want this subreddit to be an inclusive space and no chauvinism, bigotry or insults towards national, ethnic, religious etc. group will be tolerated. Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
In any case, refrain from posting or commenting in such a manner.
Holiday-Swordfish-27@reddit
Nobody wants to be Balkan.Geography cannot be changed.Culture ,habbits is another story. There is a geographycal map which is correct and a cultural habbits map which is also correct. Irrespective what are we saying none of our countries are western Europe - because our mentality is that that it is.If I see on the streets of Viena or/ and Amsterdam somebody from former communist countries I recognise them. Even the fact that we are wishing to say that we are what we are not is demonstrating this. Stop blaming your former communist origin , stop blaming Balkans etc.I do not care from where I am - I am a human being neither good nor bad than others.
bebilov@reddit
As an Albanian that lived in the majority catholic region I’d say there isn’t a difference from the catholic/muslim or orthodox Albanian (unless you meet some very radical crazy religious person). Can’t speak for the rest of the Balkans but here the difference is nonexistent.
That being said , saying that orthodox Albania is related to Eastern Europe would be false. Same as saying catholic albania is more western would be false.
In the Balkans the real difference relies more in ethnicity and language than religion. A Bulgarian would be definitely more Eastern European than an Albanian who isn’t related to Eastern Europe at all. Having a Slavic language helps them to relate more.
Rogntudjuuuu@reddit
What I've heard is that an Albanian always identify themselves as Albanian first, religion always come second.
Old-Cardiologist2853@reddit
True! First the nationality and second religion.
bebilov@reddit
It is and I’d say 85% of the people I know don’t even practice religion unless it’s some holiday like Christmas or Eid and even then it’s more about getting together and having a free day from work than the religious holiday itself.
Own_Information3154@reddit
mire bro, veq fakti qe osht qajo harte e Serbise ku e perfshine Kosoven mire o na me e bojkotu ket sub
Inductiekookplaat@reddit
Does 'mire bro' mean look bro?
HealthyHighway7335@reddit
False.
c0sf-fkr@reddit
We have the separation on church and state for a reason. The chruch as an institution cares only about itself. It is incompatible with politics on so many levels. Judging a culture by its religion is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard...it's like judging a book by the font used by the publisher
KeyComb7690@reddit
"Judging a culture by its religion is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard" I hope you are being hyperbolic here, religion and culture influence each other... just like philosophy, poetry, music influences culture...
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
The answer is obvious. Slovenia and Croatia are similar to each other, and different from the rest.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Coratia is very similar to Bosnia and Serbia. I would say more similar than to Slovenia.
thrmarauders@reddit
this is just blatantly false and i don’t understand why people keep saying
Practical_Bee_277@reddit
Hahah it’s not false, Slavonia is exactly the same as Rep Srpska in Bosnia or Srem in Serbia. Knin and that area is exactly the same as places in Bosnia like Drvar or Livno. So, yeah, it looks the same. The only part of Croatia different than most of the Balkans is Istria.
thrmarauders@reddit
so you’re going to ignore Dalmatia, the entirety of northern Croatia and Primorje, you know, the areas where most of the population lives just because it doesn’t fit your stupid narrative
obviously areas close to the border will look like the other side of the border but i’d love for you to find me a Serbian equivalent of Varaždin or Oreč
Practical_Bee_277@reddit
Hahahaha samo se tješite kako niste Balkanci a veći ste Balkančerosi od Srba ili ste tu negdje sa njima. Kako samo volite da se upinjete da dokažete da ste mitel Ojropa a isti ste kao Srbi ahahaha. Možda vam je arhitektura u pograničnim djelovima sa Slovenijom i Madjarskom mitel Ojropa ali vam je glava balkanska bebooooo
thrmarauders@reddit
da, ignorirat ćeš cili moj komentar da me vriđaš jer to je jedino što znaš. nema smisla svađat se s vama jer jedino što vi zapravo mislite je da smo svi mi isti i da smo svi mi srbi, zbog toga i pišaju toliko po vama
Practical_Bee_277@reddit
Nisam ja srbin 🤣🤣 samo ste smijesni kad pokusavate da se pravite da niste Balkan
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
What about north-west from Zagreb, Zagorje, and Zagreb itself?
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Yes, because Slovenia is not a Balkan country.
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
OK Janez
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
And Slovenia is not even Balkan
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
OK Janez
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Can't go against facts bruh
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
What "facts"? Like it or not, 50% of Slovenia is on the Balkan Peninsula. Cope, Janez.
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
And? I saw that map and yes small part it is geographically. But that's it. Geographically majority is Central Europe, but mostly I'm talking about culturally, historically and genetically. Central Europe.
Ok-Skill-265@reddit
Slovenia is actually different. Croatia is cosplaying as western.
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Yes because Slovenia is not even Balkan
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
OK Janez
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
When you can't compare with facts 🤣 Truth hurts
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
There are many different maps. Here is a German one, Janez.
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Actually some parts of Croatia are also part of Central Europe, so it's kinda right map
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
Slovenia is cosplaying as western and most Croatians consider themselves Balkan*
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Ever been to Slovenia?
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
Absolutely, cute country but unfortunately the entire national identity of the Slovenians is based on not being Balkan and superiority complex (not only towards people of Balkans like Serbs but also towards the entire eastern europe)
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
You're embarrassing yourself dude. You're v clueless
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Well that’s obviously not true. Clearly you have no knowledge of Slovenian culture or history.
On the other hand, take a look around, every second Pole is screaming how they are Central European not Eastern European and they have superiority complex towards Ukrainians, Russians, Belarussian. It is actually pretty pathetic.
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
"Well that’s obviously not true. Clearly you have no knowledge of Slovenian culture or history"
Theres no such thing as Slovenian history mate
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Bruh, Poles don't even have history. You're like Catholic Russians.
And yes, you don't know anything about Slovenia. You're proving this by every comment you post. Superiority complex 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sure. You Poles have it like Serbs and Croats. Slovenes not. Also our history is older than yours. Do you even have it?
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Now you are just embarrassing yourself
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
Truth Nuked
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Buddy ancestors of Slovenians formed one of the earliest known Slavic polities aka Carantania 👋
Ok-Skill-265@reddit
Regardless of what people think, slovenia is actually west. Croatia is east with a west package
AshamedBasis9431@reddit
we waz west and sheeeeet
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
OK Janez
User20242024@reddit
No, the cultural difference is mostly north-south issue. In the north, like for example Vojvodina and Slavonia mentality and customs of people are similar, no matter if they are Catholic or Orthodox. Same thing is in the south, as people of Dalmatia, Herzegovina and Montenegro have similar mentality, no matter of their religion, but their mentality differs from mentality in the north.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
A very similar pattern in Albania.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
The way you've phrased your question in interesting.
I grew up in the England but my parents are originally from this region, and I can tell you that no one in western Europe would ever consider Slovenia or Croatia western, regardless of what their religion is.
In some ways you could say that Europe is a post-Christian continent, because it isn't religious at all these days, and the strand of Christianity someone may happen to follow doesn't truly define their politics. A great example would be the fact that both Slovenia and Greece legalised same-sex marriage but Croatia did not. In fact, Croatia went as far as to prohibit same-sex marriage constitutionally. As a reminder, the Greek population is overwhelmingly orthodox and both Slovenia and Croatia are overwhelming catholic. So, which one of these is western and which one is eastern?
The countries in southeastern Europe are often bundled together due to their geography and history. This region was a battleground for various empires with wildly differing views for centuries. And instead of ethnicity, religion is typically used to differentiate between Christians (both orthodox and catholic) and Muslims. Culturally, Christians over there are more similar than they think they are. One of the most persistent issues amongst the local population is and has always been the cultural divide between Christianity and Islam.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Slovenia has more in common with Austria than with “this region”.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
Like I said, it's all very subjective. In the UK, Scandinavia, the Netherlands or France, Slovenia is just another eastern European country, source of immigration and so on.
It may appear different when you compare it to Albania, yes, but it's not a country that most Europeans would consider western. I fail to see why you'd want to distance Slovenia from Albania though.
Does this attempt make Slovenia appear more western or more prejudiced?
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
That’s quite ignorant and oversimplified view. Slovenia is not “source of immigration and so on”. If you check statistics you can see that Slovenian level of immigration is quite low. More people (especially from Balkan) move to Slovenia than out of it.
I fail to see what Slovenia and Albania have in common though.
I am not “attempting” to make Slovenia appear more western. You are attempting to make Slovenia appear something that is not.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
My parents are from Slovenia - first-generation immigrants - and they'd happily be placed in the same cultural group with Albanians instead of Austrians.
There is of course a cultural divide between Austria and Slovenia as well and it's your choice to ignore it and favour the similarities, which do exist, yes.
It's just a point of view. Question like this aim to divide rather than unite and they're a symptom of a much bigger problem with intolerance from Slovenia all the way down to Turkey.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Fascinating. But in reality has Slovenia culturally more in common with Austria than with Albania. That’s just the objective reality. So maybe that’s just the personal preference of your parents because Slovenia has no common history with Albania meaning it is impossible that there is any cultural similarities.
Austria is culturally closest country to Slovenia. You can do you own research.
Putting Slovenia in same region as Middle Eastern Turkey is simply ridiculous. You are ignoring 1000 of years of Slovenian history and cultural heritage.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
It's fascinating but for the wrong reasons.
Many immigrants from southeastern Europe aren't treated well in western Europe and there's a tendency for them to bond with other immigrants from countries in the same region.
If you think that Austrians will somehow treat Slovenians better because we're cultural closer to them, you're in for a surprise.
StrudlEnjoyer@reddit
Here's the thing, it doesn't matter how people treat immigrants to people that aren't immigrants and have no intentions in being ones. There are tensions between natives and immigrants in every single country. But interacting with Austrians as a non-immigrant, I don't really have anything bad to say about them.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
I’m sorry for whatever happened to you in the West but that’s your personal experience. Slovenia is part of same region as eg Hungary, not Albania.
I’ve never had any negative experiences with Austrians. On the other hand, I have had some with Albanians.
StrudlEnjoyer@reddit
This is not the first time I've heard from descendants of Slovene immigrants to other countries that they somehow feel more Balkan. I think this comes down to the fact that they don't really have such a good idea what Slovenia is like, living disconnected from its culture. Those that have trouble integrating gravitate more towards other immigrants, not many of which are Slovene, but a lot are from the Balkans, so that's what they form their identity on. Though in reality, thinking Slovene culture is closer to Albanian than Austrian is hilarious. Ignorant people in some countries not knowing anything about Slovenia doesn't change a thing about its culture. Hell, I've had an English friend, who genuinely thought Slovenia is a poor shithole despite living in much worse conditions than me.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
I find your comment a bit shortsighted. My parents left Slovenia when they were 28 and 30 respectively and we still have family living in the country - grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. We visit every Christmas and every summer. Of course, we know the country well.
We genuinely feel closer to all the former Yugoslav republics than we do to Austria. Austrians are absolutely fine and we share a great deal of history with them but the level of individualism that underscores their own culture is simply unmatched by Slovenia. Slovenia is very much a Slavic country still.
StrudlEnjoyer@reddit
I'm sorry but that is nothing compared to actually living there. I used to vacation in Croatia every summer as a kid but you won't find me lecturing Croatians on their culture.
You do you, I guess, but don't generalize your opinion on Slovenes. If Slovenes and Albanians were so similar, then why do Albanian immigrants here practically live in a parallel society and fail to integrate? Hell, they were recently shooting their guns in the air in the middle of a city on their national holiday. When I was in school, every Albanian kid somehow had a lot of older brothers and threatened that they would come and beat you up if you did anything. Sometimes they even threatened with guns, showing pictures of them and their families posing with AKs. Complete opposite of Slovene culture.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Yes Slovenia is Slavic just like most of Central Europe is. Albania isn’t. Even Austria is more Slavic than Albania.
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Bruh 🤣 Slovenia and Albania have in common.... Ummm nothing. Slovenia and Austria, a lot. Almost everything.
ls007yt@reddit
I don't know about Slovenia, but as a Greek the government legalised same sex marriage despite what the majority of people wanted
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Loved reading this comment. Thank you!
I’m aware of that, but the question was about which region Balkaners would think is more closely related to the West & which one to the East, not what people in Western Europe think.
Human rights & equality are one of the aspects I’d consider very western, but that part is still relatively blurry because, for example, Greece recognizes same-sex marriage but doesn’t recognize linguistic / ethnic minorities, while Italy recognizes liguistic / ethnic minorities but doesn’t recognize same-sex marriage, yet most people would still consider Italy as more western overall.
Ready-Fox-3264@reddit
Well, as a 'Balkaner' by descent and a 'Westerner' by upbringing, I can confirm that none of these countries feel western to me. There is a huge gap between the attitudes and mindset of Croatians and the attitudes and mindset of Scandinavian people, for example. Family life would be one area where all these countries differ significantly from western and northern Europe. Just look at the age at which young people leave their parental home, and the figures would be the same even if the local economies were stronger. Individualism is still very low across the Balkans, regardless of religion, especially when it's compared to parts of Europe further west. I've always found Croatia and Serbia to be extremely religious and nationalistic, while Slovenia and Bulgaria are generally more laid back and accepting of difference. But this is my personal experience of their cultures.
I'm glad you brought up Italy. Even though it has some laws that aim to ensure respect of many kinds of diversity, prejudice is still running high, especially in its southern part. Many Italians emigrate, for reasons other than the country's economy, and intolerance is something they often mention to me whenever I meet them here in London. I could say the same thing for Greeks - I've met many of them - which then becomes a feature both countries have in common and I could carry on finding such similarities, I'm sure. So, it goes to show how we all have this incredible obsession with trying to evaluate things like culture that can't truly be evaluated because they're so abstract.
If you wanted a direct answer to your question - no, I don't find that orthodox Christians based in the Balkans are less western European compared to catholic Christians also based in the Balkans. But what does the word 'western' signify to you and everyone else in this thread? And what does it mean for a country to be 'eastern'? And why do you need to make this distinction at all? Aren't you more interested in how similar the countries are? Why not? These are geographical concepts and here they're being applied to a discussion around culture.
Svarog1984@reddit
It depends. "Catholic" Croats and "Orthodox" Serbs are virtually identical people, but sometimes when I compare Albanians from Albania vs Albanians from Macedonia, it's like they are from different continents. Whether this is a religious thing I can't say.
And every country in the Balkans is firmly eastern / southeastern European. Everybody claiming otherwise is just delusional. Yes, even Slovenia and Hungary.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
You clearly have no knowledge of Slovenian culture or history.
Svarog1984@reddit
I've been to Slovenia about 50-60 times. But hey, whatever you say. 😂
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Visiting ≠ knowing culture and history.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
predominantly Catholic like Croatia or Slovenia which is not Balkan are of course by far different culturally and more organized and developed than BiH or Serbia.
there is a noticeable difference between Croatia and BiH although BiH for example is multicultural and multi religious.
Other examples such as Albania being multi religious the difference is not so recognizable between people's there.
There are also differences between Orthodox Balkan countries themselves. Greece is richer than for example Skopje or Albania.
I also believe Romania having large former Austro Hungarian area is still way different than rest of Balkan.
Practical_Bee_277@reddit
Since when Croatia is not Balkan? 🤣🤣🤣
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
I myself don't consider Croatia and Greece Balkanic. Because both developed way over for example Serbia or Bosnia. Croatian influence is now on a high developed country, while Greece has been the Rome of the east even since other Balkan countries were communist and poor people.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Both of those countries are geographically in Balkan. Greece more than Croatia but both are.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
this is not about geography but the state of the country and the nation. I mean wealth plays role but so do the fact that Greek people never experienced communist rule and changing of borders. the term Balkanization means exactly that and we see this as a actual problem in many other Balkan countries still today making them total Balkanic.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
I am talking about geography. But also history and culture.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Lol, ok.
azuratios@reddit
I really don't see the difference between Catholics and Orthodox in Greece. Although, tbf I grew up atheist so I have only been to churches as a visitor. How do you even compare that?
Slovenia, though, I see it as undeniably western in every way - nothing to do with religion.
tihivrabac@reddit
Slovenia is as western as are poland, slovakia, czechia, just because it is different from rest of the balkans doesn't mean it is western
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Slovenia isn’t Balkan and it is more western than Slovakia. It is on same level as Czechia. Anyone claiming otherwise has no knowledge of Slovenian culture or history.
azuratios@reddit
The post asks a question and even has the map of the countries for us to compare. I guess I should haved added "more closely related... compared to the rest of the Balkans," but you also didn't read the post before answering to my comment, haha
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Yes, the two Catholic "Balkan" nations are way more developed, and except for a few parts of Croatia can't really be considered to be Balkan countries at all.
Typical-Froyo-642@reddit
Lmao, ok.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Lmao you think Alps are Balkan? Or that Slovenian culture or history is Balkan?
Puzzled_Muzzled@reddit
Weird numbers, considering the Balkan population is around 145 million. So more than half of the population is neither Christians nor Muslims. Seems not right
sendvic_sa_senfom@reddit
Basic math failed you.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
HelloThereItsMeAndMe@reddit
Where do you have that from? The population of the countries on the map is about 69 Million.
NoSync22@reddit
The total population and the breakdown are more or less correct - including the European part of Turkey, the total is about 70 million of which 18 million Muslim.
SmartFlyNR1@reddit
Why is Slovenia on this map? Slovenia is not Balkan, so why are you putting it on this map???
Willing-Actuator-509@reddit
Greece has nothing to do with Eastern Europe culturally, politically, historically etc. Most likely the educated people in all the countries in the map are atheist, or just deists.
VenelinTsekov@reddit
It’s funny hearing Western Europeans talk about “backward Balkans” when medieval Byzantine empire had 6 universities, massive infrastructure, diplomacy and high culture while much of Western Europe was still in feudal chaos. Other medieval countries like Bulgaria had 2 or 3 universities. The East preserved Roman civilization for centuries.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
Ottoman enslavement happened after the Byzantine and the actual term Balkanization means hostilities, poverty, wars, changing of borders which actually today there are countries like Bosnia or Kosovo and others for a prime example of this.
Willing-Actuator-509@reddit
Byzantine empire has nothing to do with Eastern Europe or Balkans. Eastern Europe has strong influence from the Soviet Union and Balkans from the Ottoman Empire.
Willing-Actuator-509@reddit
Whoever downvoted this is for sure ignorant.
bender__futurama@reddit
I didnt see too big difference, well on the Balkans.
Own_Information3154@reddit
WTF is this fascist map of Serbia doing here, also, the mods are full cetnik, getting out of here
Fatalaros@reddit
Being Balkan and kneeling to western Pope, huge L imo.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
As opposed to kneeling to the Orthodox Church whose fundamental role is being a subservient vassal to every single regime.
putporkonyafork@reddit
Better than following a religion that protects pedophiles and helps some of the worst war criminals from facing justice.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Can you elaborate?
putporkonyafork@reddit
Let’s all pretend Vatican ratlines didn’t exist.
gushi1-@reddit
I’m Catholic you guys should Join the Roman Catholic Church.
VenelinTsekov@reddit
The pope has no legitimacy over the Christian world. His church doesn't represent the Bible teachings rightfully and they'd change their laws every 50-100 years.
gushi1-@reddit
Some Orthodox Church leaders are like the wind, they blow to which ever favors them. Greece and Serbia come to mind. They both attempted to help cover genocides.
mettaxa@reddit
Really bro? Are Catholics really an issue?
Mrkvkn@reddit
I never thought Albania was so Muslim
supereddy94@reddit
Only in this shit post, in reality albanians are not religious, only Catholic s in the nord are
ls007yt@reddit
and Eastern Orthodox in the south.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Catholic = western obviously.
Do I like it? Sure, it’s interesting I guess. It has the unintended effect of people being tribal, but it is interesting to see how they do it.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Could you elaborate? Which one of them has the effect of people being tribal?
quebexer@reddit
Are there protestants? What about atheists?
Thick_Cost_609@reddit
Calvinists in Romania. Almost all of them hungarians.
0lam0t@reddit
Atheists are morally christian to the point at which christians themselves admit that an atheist can go to heaven
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Both. The fact that there is a difference causes there to be tribalism.
But maybe that would exist anyways.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I believe tribalism is an element that was present in the local Balkan culture prior to the arrival of Abrahamic religions.
alecorock@reddit
Even in the court of the later Byzantine empire the "Latins" were Western and the Greeks/Armenians were Eastern.
azuratios@reddit
Greeks and Armenians -> East (of the city)
Greeks -> Asians or "Lesser Asians"
And yeah modern day Turkey is called Anatolia which means "east" but it refers to the city, therefore there is no "Anatolian" for the Byzantines - if that word is used it refers to the Persians or the Saracens. Obviously in the Greek text it will be written as "Lesser Asian" (Micrasian) and in earlier texts just "Asian" is common.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Slovenia is Central European country. Culturally, historically and geographically. It isn’t Catholic Balkan country by any definition.
Esdoorn-Acer@reddit
Alps in Balkan peninsula…never ending story. Geography is so fascinating!
Early-Show2886@reddit
again this map, and allways the same...why the muslim minority in dorbuja not shown? this map is allways copied again and again.
who create this map? im sure not anyone from the balkans.
Cefalopodul@reddit
Because they are 75k in total. They're not a majority literally anywhere.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
Omu’ asta e disperat dupa muslimanii lui din dobrogea si insulita ada kaleh, n-am intalnit asa autist cu hiperfixatie d-asta
Early-Show2886@reddit
Este moștenirea noastră, sângele strămoșilor noștri.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
As i said, they do not represent a majority in any significant commune, so it’s right in not showing muslims in Dobrogea
Early-Show2886@reddit
no its not right. you hate us, i see...its ok. it doesnt matter.
Oh, thank you so much for being so kind to the German minority of Banat Swabians who are Catholic, to help the region of Timișoara. Thank you... my German ancestors thank you. God bless you.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
I think what you are looking at is actually karashovan bulgarians, as for hate, I don’t hate our turks and tatars they are respectful to our state I respect them, as for genocide denying turks that try to expand their sphere of influence in the region funding mosques and other initiatives(see whats happening in gagauzia) those i’m ambivalent towards
Early-Show2886@reddit
You don't understand...look.
When I see a map like this, and Muslims are highlighted everywhere (even though they represent only a small minority), they are mentioned in this map.
It's painful to see that the Turkish-Tatar minority in Romania isn't even mentioned. A small red stripe in Dobruja on the map would be enough.
But this way, an entire minority is being ignored.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
I would like to know what happened to the anatolian armenians, cappadocian and pontic greeks from turkey, the turkish tatar community in Romania is small and mostly city-dwelling thus not shown on a map which shows majority religion, at least those turks still exist compared to armenians, since you mentioned your family I will mention mine, on my grandma’s side of the family they were armenians that fled anatolia because of what the turks were doing
Early-Show2886@reddit
But I am of Turkish Gypsy origin, since when have they done anything to you?
here my paternal side:
https://scholarlypublications.universiteitleiden.nl/access/item%3A2721940/view
and this my mother side.
https://europebetweeneastandwest.wordpress.com/tag/ethnic-germans-in-banat/
fk_censors@reddit
Am vorbit cu bătrâni care au fost pe Ada Kaleh (în vizită). Dispariția insulei chiar e o mare tragedie.
Early-Show2886@reddit
anyway they should be shown in the map.
Cefalopodul@reddit
No they should not. Catholics and Lutherans do actually constitute majorities in certain places. Muslims do not.
Early-Show2886@reddit
With your comment, you've now confirmed that you're an enemy of the Turkish-Tatar minority, which is recognized in Romania. So, all of you who say you like your Muslim minority in Romania, you won't even allow them to be listed in a folder. Thanks for your honest answer. Yes, you would have preferred to throw them all in Turkey.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It wasn’t intentional - I just found the map online. In which part of Romania does that minority live?
Early-Show2886@reddit
Dobruja on the black sea region, citys like constanta, tulcea, babadag etc.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/8/20/romania-a-beacon-of-coexistence-for-muslims-in-eastern-europe
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
There’s a couple of them in Constanta county but they are not a majority anywhere
FortisPatria@reddit
and you’re believing that 13 million in thrace from turkey, all of them is muslim right? :d
Early-Show2886@reddit
Turkish part yes, as it shown in the map, even they are only cultural Muslims.
greek and bulgarians was expelled from turkish thrace before 1923.
ZHadzic@reddit
How primitive to use religion as a cultural thing. People is the South of Europe ( as I see this part of Europe) are very similar to each other no matter which nationality. To see how small the differences are you do need some life experiences and to have travelled and lived around the world. There are much more similarities than differences and we need to focus more on similarities, knowledge, science, business and living our lives.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I love your philosophy and I agree that, in the grand scheme of things, the differences are marginal.
However the question was about which one of these two ”areas” of the Balkans would you consider to be more closely related, even slightly so, to what ”Western Europe” generally means today.
ZHadzic@reddit
Define “Western”. France, Netherlands, UK, Danish are all different cultures and have less similarities than all balkan countries together (based on language, food, music etc).
erlikosauruss@reddit
Bulgaria is greener in realite, especially areas close to Turkish border.
Winter-Speech978@reddit
I have Turkish and Albanian Muslim friends, Catholic Croatian, Orthodox Macedonian, Serbian and Bulgarian and i dont see any difference between us when it comes to culture. We all have Balkan culture, the center of the world
admiralbeaver@reddit
And you all live in Berlin? /s
Winter-Speech978@reddit
No, only my Croatian friend lives near me.
VenelinTsekov@reddit
I'm from Bulgaria and I was amazed how people in Toscany had almost the same dishes like us especially when it comes to pork.
NewIdentity19@reddit
Where is Kosovo?
Soggy-Clock457@reddit
In Serbia...
Ujemegaz@reddit
You can still spot the border 🤣
Soggy-Clock457@reddit
Yeah... With Analbania
Ujemegaz@reddit
🤣
Ujemegaz@reddit
Why divide catholics and orthodox amd not shia and sunnis 🤔
Substratas@reddit (OP)
What is shia and sunnis?
Ujemegaz@reddit
I have no idea, usually hear about such in the news. Got many downvotes from Americans i think.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It’s not Americans, it’s ~~the American taxpayer money~~ bots from Israel with VPN set to USA that come in waves to make this whole thing look organic.
They’ve been targeting this sub for a while, right after people started posting about Israel.
Far_Country_1629@reddit
The biggest two different sects of Islam, was your comment a joke ?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
No. I was not aware islam has two sects. Are both sects present in Albania?
We have one that it’s called Bektashi, but in Albania it’s now officcially considered a separate religion from Islam…
Far_Country_1629@reddit
Yes, but the vast majority of Albanian Muslims are Sunni, while a significant, distinct minority follows Bektashismnllike you said, which is a a Sufi-Shia order.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Interesting.
___dontdisturb@reddit
there is no shia's in bosnia, turkey, or albania so whats ur point??? it wouldn't be on this map anyway
Ujemegaz@reddit
Speak for Bosnia and Turkey, how do you know there is no shia in Albania? 🤔
Ujemegaz@reddit
Speak for Bosnia and Turkey. How do you know i am not shia 🤣🤣🤣
Hairy_Plane_4206@reddit
are there significant shia populations in the balkans?
trisul-108@reddit
I think it had more to do with previous length of Turkish occupation than differences in types of Christianity.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
AustroHungary border the Ottoman empire dividing the Balkans for centuries.
fogleth@reddit
Dude we are the core of Eastern European Culture. Slavic literacy and all.
Appropriate-Quote950@reddit
People always have to remember themselves that maps like these are an over-simplification of a complex situation. There are areas that cannot be of a single colour, since orthodox, catholics, muslims, even jews and agnostics, live within the same area. But in maps like these they take the most frequent category to represent the area: this may not make much sense if, say, an area is green because there are only 42% of muslims, 29% orthodoxes, 18% catholics, 3% jews, for example. The same is true of maps claiming to represent differences in languages or -even worse- ethnicity.
Sencwr@reddit
Where is non teist?
Key-Quiet-6856@reddit
Greek Catholics are missing on this map. There are many in Transylvania.
SloMoHacker@reddit
Greek Catholicism was created solely as shadow-Orthodoxy in order to allow Orthodox Romanians in Transylvania to worship in their faith without being targets for suppression by the Habsburg Empire in the 18th century, because at the time the Austrians targeted and destroyed anything that was not Catholic. The characteristics are exactly the same, only the garments & the fact that they recognize papal authority make it different from Orthodoxy. So they’re not missing, but rather reconverted or united with the Orthodox Church.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
Not anymore
Temporary_County1838@reddit
There are much more Turks in Greece than being shown in this map.
Particular_End_4917@reddit
I love Orthodoxes much more than Protestans and Catholics. By the way I lived long enough ın Germany- and I have muslim origin- Circassian Turc from İstanbul
Nothing_Special_23@reddit
It depends what Orthodox and what Catholic.
If we're talking Serbia and Croatia for example, than the answer is no. Not really. Croats are gonna hate it, but they're the first to know this to be true.
If we're talking idk Greece and Slovenia, than sure. There's a huge cultural difference with Slovenia being heavily "Austrianized" and Greece being fully Balkan and Mediteranean.
0lam0t@reddit
Catholics are based and christpilled, eastern orthodox though... idk kinda heretical!
18w4531g00@reddit
There are catholic areas in Bulgaria too.
LifeMinimum5924@reddit
Green like a plague
FuzzyAmbassador663@reddit
Yes there is a noticeable difference in some areas, still all of them are tend to dump garbage into the river...
The closest to "western values" whatever that means are the ones that live closest to other countries with low home ownership.
AccomplishedQuit6535@reddit
18.890.000 Muslims in the Balkans must include Turkish part of Europe with Istanbul , right ? What would be Muslim population in Balkan countries outide Turkey ? 5-6 millions or so ?
South-Print4694@reddit
8 million
Cefalopodul@reddit
Map of Romania is wrong. Protestants are not the most numerous in the north-west.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Yupp, someone pointed that out. There’s also a muslim minority that’s not visible in this map.
Cefalopodul@reddit
They're about 75k in total. Impossible to represent on this map.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
That’s almost half percent. A small green dot would have been visible if that was taken into consideration.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
Where? They are spread out in multiple cities
GroundbreakingBox187@reddit
There’s a district on the border of Bulgaria but this map is too pixelated to tell
mirkomirko23@reddit
biggest difference, in sence of culturally similarities to WE or EE, is which empire controlled specific area, not religion imo
FunLocation3218@reddit
muslims far more crowded
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
I prefer catholicism since they have the best looking architecture. Also catholic countries are almost all richer than us(due to being close to the west). And I am also a fanboy since the latin gang is catholic and we missed the spot
gushi1-@reddit
Montenegro where green at bottoms should also have orange. I know alot of 🇦🇱✝️ in that area.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
Catholicism is obviously directly linked to the western world and Orthodox Christianity is clearly linked to the East, both politically and culturally.
Elmalukat@reddit
It depends, 100 years ago Catholics of Mirdita were as far culturally to the Westerns as Japan
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Oh no, I’m actually talking about countries that are catholics overall, with a majority following that religion. In Albania it’s a minority and their culture was never that profoundly different from the rest of the country (I know because part of my family is catholic).