Time to adopt Idaho Stop?

[-]

QueerVortex@reddit

Sometimes it’s hard to see the driver through the windshield. As a driver, what is the best way to signal to bicyclists that yes I see you and please keep going cuz I can wait a extra second

[-]

The best thing to do is to be predictable. For me as a cyclist, if I come to a 4-way stop and you're already there, I expect you to go before I do, which will let me get through the intersection without stopping. While the sentiment of letting cyclists go first is nice, not all drivers will do that, and cyclists aren't generally expecting that, so it breaks the flow/removes certainty that would otherwise be preserved if you just went when it was your turn. Uncertainty means I'm coming to a stop.

[-]

2bluewagons@reddit

I wish everyone’s brain works the way yours and mine does on this matter. I find it silly that I get annoyed when someone is just trying to be nice and let me go. Just do the thing we all expect and there will be harmony.

[-]

Odd_Eggplant8019@reddit

if you have the right of way proceed cautiously and don't stop. the worst thing is waving someone through because you are trying to be nice. It also can potentially make you liable if you wave someone through and there's an accident. then you're just slowing everything down.

If the cyclist has right of way just make eye contact and nod slightly.

[-]

DecentParsnip42069@reddit

The Idaho stop only applies if the intersection is clear. If you are present as a driver, it is supposed to be normal stop sign rules, and you treat the cyclist as a vehicle. Although given how many cyclists will roll through anyway, wanting to let them go first is understandable. Unfortunately there is no easy way to be predictable about that. You can wave them through. Personally as a cyclist I always stop and follow the rules of the road, even is someone tries to wave me. As a car driver you should know never to trust someone waving you into a lane/intersection, always look for yourself and only proceed when you know it's clear

[-]

NewsreelWatcher@reddit

During 2020 I developed sciatica and had to sit on a bench halfway between buying groceries and home. There was a four way stop I could observe while waiting for my pain to ease. It was an unusual street with a bus, ambulances, fire trucks, bicycles, police cars, you name it. Everyone just slowed and proceeded if there was no one blocking the intersection. Everyone except bus drivers. I realized that stop signs are a lie. We treat them no differently from yield signs. I suspect they exist mostly as an excuse for police to go on a fishing expedition even as the police ignore stop signs themselves. In France, intersections often have no signs at all. Everyone yields to the person on the right by default.

[-]

Inciteful_Analysis@reddit (OP)

I think the case for bicycles treating stop signs as yield signs is significantly different than that for motor vehicles.

Bicyclists struggle to come to a full stop without falling over. Coming to a full stop greatly increases the amount of effort and time required to resume and clear the intersection (noted in video). This is likely a large contributor to increased accidents.

Bicycles in motion can also be easier to see (noted in video). And a bicyclist hitting a motor vehicle is primarily a threat to just their own health.

[-]

Taijoker@reddit

If you're thinking about cycling safety, I'd recommend a helmet... Lots of evidence they work great.

[-]

NewsreelWatcher@reddit

The excuse against examples where doing it differently works is always “We’re not that place”. It gets harder to wave away the evidence when more and more cities do it and the same results are repeated.

[-]

Fryphax@reddit

This is just how I ride. Stop signs are yields, red lights are stop signs.

[-]

badhabitfml@reddit

Same here in my city. Cars hit bikes all the time because of it.

It works, but don't be an idiot about it and don't be mad if you get hit by a car when you do it. Cars are going to expect you to follow the same rules.

[-]

throwaway_2_help_ppl@reddit

Don't be an idiot = follow the actual rules.

Too many cyclists think that these laws mean they can just blow through intersections without slowing down or even looking. And then get mad when they get hit.

Yield = slow down, proceed cautiously if no other traffic has right of way

Red light = stop and then proceed if there is no other traffic.

[-]

RoundSyrup4424@reddit

Well said. This is just natural to do in most areas! Especially early in the morning before the sun is up and the roads are nearly empty!

[-]

ralphiooo0@reddit

I couldn’t imagine cops where I live caring either.

[-]

nobikeno@reddit

Where t f is your helmet!

[-]

RoundSyrup4424@reddit

Right?! I agree with most of what he argues, but it's hard to take him seriously while not wearing a helmet.

[-]

sjmuller@reddit

He has an excellent video on that topic as well. https://youtu.be/rhzH6mEpIps

[-]

rewt127@reddit

I just dont really agree with the guy regardless.

Here is the reality. I do not personally wear a helmet on my bicycle. But also, im not gonna sit here and pretend "oh im on a separated path so im not really at risk". If I hit gravel in a turn and lose the rear? There is a real danger of brain damage.

A friend of a friend had serious brain damage from a crash on a dirt bike at 10mph going down to check his mail. Dog jumped out in front of him, he grabbed a handful of front brake, tucked the front, highsided. That was the end for him. 10 mph.

I accept the risks of not wearing a helmet. I dont always even wear one on my motorcycle. I think the issue is that too many people try to blame the dangers on external sources. Instead of just "yeah, its dangerous. Im ok with that".

[-]

godver3@reddit

Does this actually make much of a difference in practice? I assume cyclists are already doing something similar to this.

[-]

KuumaPeruna69@reddit

Idaho: bicyclist injuries from traffic crashes declined by 15%

Delaware: crashes involving bicyclists at stop sign intersections fell by 23%

NHTSA fact sheet. The "Idaho Stop" (Stop as Yield) is safer for cyclists.
13 U.S. states (12% of population) have adopted "Stop as Yield" for cyclists
6 of those states (5% pop) have adopted "Red Light as Stop"

Relevant Study:

"Scofflaw Bicycling: Illegal but Rational" (Marshall, 2017)

[-]

badhabitfml@reddit

I wonder how this compares in rural VS urban parts of the state.

Rolling a stop sign in the city is a fast way to get hit by a car if it isn't a 4way stop.

[-]

Glyph8@reddit

Well, that would be on the cyclist, just as it would if they were driving a car. You shouldn‘t be rolling a Yield, if there is a car coming. The rule is, treat a Stop as a Yield - you can only roll it, IF it’s clear.

And treat a red light, as a stop sign - you can roll AFTER stopping, AND making sure it’s clear.

[-]

rewt127@reddit

I dont understand how the stop sign one makes much of a difference seeing how that is the way everyone, regardless of method of transport, treats stop signs.

Cars, bicycles, motorcycles, we all California stop at stop signs. Slow to a rolling stop, check the intersection again, accelerate. This just codifies that bicycles are allowed to do it. When everyone else just does it.

The stop light one I can see how it would reduce collisions. Its just further down the same train of thought as filtering.

[-]

degoba@reddit

Yes. In Minneapolis cops ticketed cyclists pretty regularly for rolling stop signs. Now they don’t

[-]

stormdelta@reddit

OP's post listed stats showing it helped, so yes.

Making it law helps encourage people to do it when appropriate, and provides pushback against idiot entitled drivers that don't understand why these laws are being passed.

Colorado also has a similar law now.

[-]

Inciteful_Analysis@reddit (OP)

Not having to worry about a ticket for slow rolling a stop signs would be a benefit. Even for those already doing this.

[-]

SilverSolver2000@reddit

We have it in Utah now. It's awesome.

[-]

Odd_Eggplant8019@reddit

but you have to wait 90 seconds at a red light.

Always obey traffic signals and traffic control devices.

Stop signs may be treated as yield signs (Utah Code 41-6a-1105). This means you must slow down and yield to any vehicles or pedestrians, proceeding only when it is safe and does not impede traffic.

If you are 16 years or older, and you have stopped and waited at a red signal or arrow for at least 90 seconds, you may cautiously enter the intersection if no other vehicle or pedestrian has the right-of-way.

https://highwaysafety.utah.gov/bicycle-safety/

[-]

SnuffyMcfluff@reddit

Colorado also has this stop system. It is great.

[-]

dariansdad@reddit

I just watched this yesterday (sometimes the algo gets it right).

I am waiting for a ticket for rolling a stop on my bike and taking it to court. I'm in California, BTW, where we coined the term" California Stop". Not the same thing but it gives context to my position as well as supports the data.

[-]