Should I stop speaking up?
Posted by QuitTypical3210@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 114 comments
People keep creating extra work for themselves or others at my work. I speak up and say that it’s not needed, with why and what should be done instead. And I get ignored. And now, I don’t get invited to the meetings.
Should I just let them do whatever at this point and try to avoid getting caught in the time wasting?
midKnightBrown59@reddit
The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.
StickyDeltaStrike@reddit
Just focus on deliveries and make some money for yourself.
Complex_Ad2233@reddit
Sounds to me like you won the golden ticket out of meetings 🤷♂️
nightzowl@reddit
I used to be annoyed by this too, but I clocked recently that everyone is doing resume driven development even the product manager. From now on I will not care and I will do the same thing too.
high_throughput@reddit
Are you right about the things not being needed, and about what should be done instead?
Are you considering the correct need? It's not all about the product and work, people also need to do things to be promoted.
Is there *actually* too much work, or are they complaining preemptively as a strategy to avoid seeming idle?
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
theDarkAngle@reddit
Examples?
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
Like you load a file and instead of just supporting a single one like csv, they want to support loading yaml json csv xml
When we only need csv, the rest are useless
Imaginary_Maybe_1687@reddit
In this specific example, did you ask why they wanted all the extra file types?
guareber@reddit
Honestly, that's a call for the product owner. "Is there enough value in supporting yaml json and xml as well to justify extra devwork?"
Yes -> do, No -> move on.
Slime0@reddit
If you call changes with low value "useless," you'll get ignored because the changes *are* useful, just not useful enough to justify the time, but the people who want the changes only see the benefits. You have to speak in terms of cost and benefit, and show that the cost is greater than the benefit.
canderson180@reddit
You gotta sell to your audience. Simply saying we only need CSV can sound much different than clarifying must haves and nice to haves. Maybe we can build CSV parsing first and then iterate on other formats? Maybe the sales team already promised all the formats. I know you provided a narrow example, but what is the objective of offering additional formats while you have the impression that only CSV is needed?
This sounds like failure to communicate on all sides, and your manager should be shoring this up for the team.
oditogre@reddit
Yeah, I can definitely imagine very sound reasons for either side on something like that. Context is really important.
To OP: Sooooome people are irredeemably stupid, negligent, or even malicious, but the vast, vast majority of people are reasonably competent and are trying to do a good or at least adequate job. In their own minds, they are behaving rationally.
You'll get a ton of mileage out of really earnestly trying to figure out where they're coming from - what their motivations are, what their constraints are, etc., that are driving them to these decisions. As a first-order benefit, it makes them seem less crazy or stupid, which honestly makes your job more tolerable all by itself. It's like getting diagnosed with panic attacks, or ADHD, or something like that. The diagnosis alone doesn't fix anything, but it does at least explain what's happening, which all by itself can make it a lot easier to deal with.
Beyond that, if you really get where they're coming from, you can use that to frame your feedback. Put things in terms of how they align with their motivations, and avoid giving feedback that's not actionable because of their constraints. You'll have more success all around.
canderson180@reddit
Word! This is the soft skill you gotta work on, empathy!
space-to-bakersfield@reddit
It sounds like they like to go to the unnecessary abstraction right away. I've heard that referred to as intermediate-developer syndrome.
afancymidget@reddit
Are you the tech lead? You should speak up, that’s why engineers get paid, but if the tech lead wants to do something else you shouldn’t push it and just move on.
Soft skills are the hardest part of the job to learn in my opinion.
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
No not tech lead
mad_pony@reddit
If even new people do not listen to you, there should be a reason. Do they not recognize your expertise? Do you not deliver your message properly? Are you aligned with your manager?
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
Maybe, maybe not. They added a bunch of new high level leads that seem like they want to steer their own direction
AFAIK I’m aligned with my manager
hornynnerdy69@reddit
Huh? You are a terrible engineer if you invent useless work just to get promoted. And you make everyone else’s job harder.
high_throughput@reddit
How about "leadership is terrible if they promote based on useless promo work" instead of "corporate employees are terrible if they do the work their employer rewards them for"
Bricktop72@reddit
Something like this is 100% the kind of thing that get you attention at promotion time. If you don't have the opportunity to do that type of work normally, doing a proof of concept as a learning experience is a great way to get attention. Doubly so if you give a brown bag lunch or other type of presentation about it.
Make it address a business need and my company would look at spinning it up as a project.
writebadcode@reddit
I don’t think they’re suggesting it’s the right thing to do, just that it explains the pushback.
failsafe-author@reddit
I don’t invest energy on problems that won’t be solved or that I have no control over.
Professional-Fig6132@reddit
Yes. (Source: I lost my job over this, it sucks.) Some other people are just that insecure and prefer their potentially suboptimal ways over even just getting feedback/having a small conversation about.
The most dangerous of them will not let you know they have an issue with you and will talk you down behind your back. By the time you are aware of this, the image about you is already formed. Being excluded from a meeting is a serious red flag for this.
In this case of guarding scope, these people might "translate" this to: disagreeable, half assing (even if only one file extension should be supported), not a teamplayer, does not fit the organization, does not listen.
in order to protect themselves.
Psychology in software development almost always wins over being technically correct.
Your genuine interest in doing what is best for the company (speaking up) does not translate to doing what is best for you.
Leading_Yoghurt_5323@reddit
honestly sounds like you’re right but the delivery or timing is off
if people start excluding you, it’s less about ideas and more about how they feel in those moments
maybe bring it up 1:1 instead of in group
Recent_Science4709@reddit
Yeah, back in the day I put a post it note on my monitor that said “don’t talk”
nachohk@reddit
It took some years, but eventually it worked its way even into my thick skull. I am not an expert, hired at a premium for their expert knowledge and experience. I am an unjustifiably expensive scrivener. Nobody likes it when the overpaid scrivener has an opinion about what they've been told to write.
My sticky note said something similar.
avoral@reddit
Okay but you may need to hear this—They chose to have overpaid scriveners for a reason, and the longer you’re an overpaid scrivener the more you see newer, similarly overpaid scriveners that fumble things in ways you find totally elementary, until you realize you’re not quite as overpaid as you thought
nachohk@reddit
No. There is no point in your career where business people stop seeing you as a scrivener and start seeing you as an expert. Unless you get unbelievably lucky and get to work for a company run by engineers (at least until it isn't anymore), you are always going to be disdained and seen as overpaid by those who run the business and get the final say on decisions.
They do not understand your work. They never will. They have a deep psychological aversion to learning about your work, because it would threaten their monumental egos and make them feel inferior by comparison. You are a scrivener because it gives them psychological safety to see you that way, and psychological safety is far more important than the success of a business.
avoral@reddit
I’m not talking about how other people see you, I’m talking about how you see yourself, because I detected imposter syndrome in your post and I’m no stranger to that.
nachohk@reddit
Thanks for the thought I guess, but no. It was a hard lesson learned later than it probably should have been, that my perception of myself as an expert with very valuable experience and advice to give was not remotely aligned with the perspective of those signing the checks. If anything I'm still internalizing that lesson and haven't quite stopped giving out advice, even if it never gets followed. At least the sting of how little that advice is valued or heeded is not so acute anymore.
DuctTapeDiplomat@reddit
damnnnn
2this4u@reddit
Last time we had layoffs is was the quiet people who went because they were seen as not engaged nor adding value beyond code. It depends on the company.
Recent_Science4709@reddit
I’ve been chosen in a layoff by an incompetent architect who didn’t like me arguing with him all the time.
I’ve been targeted for being the highest paid.
I’ve been rejected from a job because they wanted someone aggressive and I wouldn’t agree to be confrontational.
I had an everything bagel for breakfast
aeroverra@reddit
The sad reality is it goes a long way.
If you don't know how to play the bs game for promotions you will get a surprising amount by shutting up and learning to be okay with things always catching fire.
webbed_feets@reddit
You can get a lot done if you use working hours to work instead of play games.
Cute_Activity7527@reddit
Yea, like working on own projects or working on moving to a better company.
pydry@reddit
With a few exceptions, the goal isnt to run a tight ship. It's to fit in to the culture.
If it's a place where middle managent want to empire build, employees need to keep their jobs and upper management are clueless you become a hostile organism if you try to make people look incompetent or unnecessary.
ConcentrateHopeful79@reddit
My post it note said: Let it burn
QueSeraShoganai@reddit
Smart!
Helpjuice@reddit
Yes, you should stop speaking up and just worry about yourself. The company is paying you to do work so do the work. You do not own the company and do not set direction which comes from the top down so make it happen.
Now this sucks for us ultra high performers, but this is also the flaw of being an ultra high performer. You make waves and this disrupts the system an created more stress and messes up the plan the lazy people made that are higher up the food chain.
Let the lazy people create the plan and execute it unless there is such a glaring issue that the plan will be blocked and provide an optimization or solution to keep the plan moving without going too far off course.
You are currently being silenced because you are not fun to work with because you complain too much. So to get rid of the complaining you are no longer being invited to the decision table. Which if you didn't know this will impact your future performance reviews and decrease your pay over time. Fix this by just chilling and going with the flow of the business. All the other stuff is not your problem if it doesn't actually impact you directly.
This way you do your think and roll out at the end of the day. Let people stacking extra work for them catch the book case when it falls on them for trying to do too much and do not offer any help. Only offer help when asked for help.
Remember integration into the machine is better than being a bad sprocket in the machine. Bad sprockets get thrown out and replaced with newer ones. Unless someone with the power to make decisions is asking for a fix directly just keep things moving.
avoral@reddit
Smile, nod, and keep doing the stuff you know matters. Let your supervisor directly order you to switch tasks to the dumb idea du jour. Half the stupid stuff popping off in the meetings changes with the way the wind is blowing.
gringo_escobar@reddit
Part of what engineers are paid for is to speak up. But if you've professionally given your opinion then your job is done and it's (usually) not worth pushing on
nullpotato@reddit
Disagree and commit as it were
canderson180@reddit
Man, I hate when one of my reports falls out of psychological safety. It’s pretty crucial to be able to speak up, but also to be engaged by your peers when you do.
On the other side of the coin, you have to consider your optics. Are you the engineer who is difficult to work with? Do people feel like you are nitpicking them. Can peer enlightenment happen here without snobbery?
It’s important to note the team dynamics as a whole and be aligned on what the team is working towards.
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
Maybe nitpicky but I give my ideas more of suggestions rather than a “you all are stupid” tone
Idk wat the team is aligned on tbh. I hear from the gods above we need to deliver faster and then they add all this extra work for no reason
obfuscate@reddit
you need to give yourself a "budget" of how many suggestions you can make within a time period.
if every standup you are telling someone they should be doing something differently, even if you are correct, it won't play out well.
ericmutta@reddit
Indeed. Managing human psychology is the ultimate challenge in engineering and is actually pretty fun if you approach software engineering as problem solving rather than merely writing code.
nasanu@reddit
This is near identical to what a junior told me. We have a section of an app that requires 47 images to be uploaded. I designed it so it was a bulk upload with further streamlines to help the user do it as fast as possible. The junior said exactly what you did, and got the PM to agree. So they made the user upload 47 images one by one and delivered about 2 weeks later than I would have. In order to deliver faster we delivered a worse product slower. Win. Then I quite that project.
Majestic-Watch-2025@reddit
If you are doing this well, it can be fine and you don't necessarily come off as "the engineer who is always complaining". You just have to be good at stakeholder management.
newEnglander17@reddit
I’m Not a senior dev, but in my experience, the good seniors I’ve worked with will push back and declare things are a waste of time/effort, or if it’s a stakeholder, put it in a. Nicer way like that it’ll take time away from other things they’d also like, and for low reward.
Mysterious_Pepper447@reddit
Could it be a lack of technical depth on their part? E.g. you clearly explain the problem with what they're about to do and offer a better approach, but they don't actually understand and are too embarrassed to say anything? If your environment does stacked ranking etc, then junior devs will 100% smile and nod at everything you say, whether they've understood you or not
Stock_Situation_8479@reddit
yeah, lets assume they are the problem
Mysterious_Pepper447@reddit
If OP is articulating their ideas and the team is just giving blank stares and not articulating their own, then the team is not collaborating 🤷♂️
Careful_Ad_9077@reddit
A story as old as time.
lasooch@reddit
I like this. Sadly, at many companies speaking up is actively discouraged, so while your take is good for the team and the product, it's not necessarily good for the people involved.
My company is currently overtaken by AI psychosis, but because they announced it at the same time as they announced upcoming layoffs, no one speaks up. Top management is literally vomiting out word salad nonsense that is clearly not true to anyone who has used AI for more than 20 minutes... but no one speaks up. Costs will go up a hundred fold in June - guess what, no one speaks up.
ephemeral_resource@reddit
Larger companies rarely have a good sense, desire, or control to enforce clean and efficient architecture. To make matters worse, those "upstarts" doing "more work that isn't needed" are often recognized for their creative ideas because they did eventually solve some business need. Redoing something your way proves to their manager that they can do it their way so it is often done.
I blame the companies for not hiring more technical managers who I think could/should be able to put some bigger picture thoughts into any given idea. Maybe they save enough on their salaries to justify all the extra compute and complexity but I doubt it. I broadly think appropriate recognition across big companies is simply hard so they tend to hire low and keep low and "let the problem sort itself out" (ie. if you're worth it you will leave).
prh8@reddit
Keep speaking up until you have no useless meetings left and then just chill
unbrokenwreck@reddit
Or get laid off because AI will speak on your behalf
ShoePillow@reddit
Yup
ElectronicWealth6459@reddit
Exactly same is happening in my team, actually there are not even 5 customers for the product which was launched 6 months ago and literally there is no much work to do.
But higher ups Sr EMs, VP and this architect just keep bringing bull shit no value work just to justify their jobs.
I also post pleothra of comments in the tickets justifying that this is not even needed.But architect have a serious backing, cant do anything.Asking too much questions is putting my job at risk.
fell_ware_1990@reddit
I just started being a dick about it. I mention things, once or twice. If not heard or acted up on. I will write date/time : my suggestion and my expected out come down.
80/90% i’m right after the fact. At least i know i’m right then.
My work ethics are very simple, if something breaks i fix it and i work hard. But if these things happen totally preventable do not call me and expect me to hurry. You will be on the bottom of my pile. Even if PRD is down. This causes the other engineers to scramble together, then don’t fix the issue and they will keep calling me.
I have shown them my predictions a few times and after a year i just went up to the manager. Explained the cycle that was happening. I just put him on the spot, or we are going to listen some more.
If the other people know beter, let them dig their own grave. It’s now very clear i know more about our internals and in most cases i’m the only one who can get it fixed. Or has the rights to fix it.
PsychologicalCell928@reddit
There are a number of reasons people do this:
To look ambitious and willing to go "the extra mile".
Because THEY already know that it's a no-brainer but they also know that the BOSS thinks it really requires work.
Because they are behind on some other deliverable and they need a plausible excuse to offset any bad feedback.
A lot depends on the time and effort that is being wasted ( or saved if they listened to your suggestion ).
If a person knows how to satisfy the request because they've done many like it - then it's sometimes easier to do it in a rote manner - even if it is slower. Sometimes they feel more in control; sometimes they know that if they finish faster then they'll be asked to do more.
mxldevs@reddit
What is an example of a task that you thought was completely piuntkess, and your proposed alternative?
BoundInvariance@reddit
Yep. Quietly collect a paycheck and start looking for a role where your voice is valued.
RandyHoward@reddit
I'm on this trajectory as well. I created some software that the company I now work for bought, they don't listen to any of my input. It's insane to me that you'd buy a company and then not value the guy who understands the business logic and created the software. Six more months until my options vest and then I plan to find a place that values my voice, or will start another company of my own.
BoundInvariance@reddit
I call it corpo-brain. It’s an addiction to making the wrong business decision every time.
RandyHoward@reddit
It’s crazy. In two years we’ve built zero new features. I’ve watched as competitors have pulled far ahead of us and clients are churning. One of our clients that was with us since the old company said it’s a damn shame what they’ve done to the product.
BoundInvariance@reddit
Vibe code a new version that’s better and compete with your employer lol
RandyHoward@reddit
I've been thinking about talking with our competitors about hiring me. The sales guy from the old company has a close relationship with a couple of them. Plus when we were in talks to sell the company, we were talking to 3 other companies about an acquisition too, so I've got options.
nachohk@reddit
Why would you listen to the help? Those uppity fools think they're so important and so unreplaceable, when all they do is type some text all day. It's basically data entry. Who the fuck knows how they get paid so much? Insufferable pricks.
Alert_Profession8226@reddit
sounds like a perfect time to practice selective hearing
Jealous-Weekend4674@reddit
You already understood you are not making any friends by speaking up.
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
I used to be a sheep and then said watever im going to speak my mind and now it’s better to be sheep again
VideoRare6399@reddit
Not gonna lie though I’d also not assume 100% you’re in the right. Your framing of this makes it sound like you’re completely unaware as to why they’re doing what they’re doing.
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
I don’t think they are aware why they are doing wat the are doing
hornynnerdy69@reddit
People don’t create extra work for themselves for no reason. It might be a bad reason, but I guarantee they have some reason for why they are doing what they are doing
Jealous-Weekend4674@reddit
unless you are a manager (or a staff engineer) you are only steeping on other people toes. Unfortunately people are resentful for pity things and they will "bite back" (for example: choosing whom is invited for projects, performance reviews, etc).
eraserhd@reddit
You need to switch to “listen mode.”
Not because you aren’t the expert and not because you aren’t right in your assessment, but because people aren’t listening to you. And because you aren’t able to clearly articulate their motivations here.
Alright, so how do you listen to other people when they don’t listen to you? Ready for the impossible task?
Next time you are mad or frustrated or yelling at your wall (not in a meeting), don’t stop what you are feeling, but notice it non judgmentally, reframe it in the positive, and OWN IT. e.g. “Bob’s a cunt” -> “I feel I’m losing control of the project” -> “I really want to see the flobnorcrantzer crantz the flobs!”
That might seem like a dumb step, but it’s important, because if you don’t do it, the next step will fail.
So then, the next step is the listening. Keep asking questions, trying to understand, exactly what you did before, but about them. You really want to understand. If you still have hidden resentment, sadness, frustration that you didn’t turn around and own, you will come off a passive aggressive asshole. And I know this from experience. But you should be able to temporarily put aside your goal and help them own their own shit.
If you can get this far, there will be a moment either where they just shut up because they don’t have more to say, or they look uncomfortable then ask you what you think.
And THIS is the place where you say, “Oh man, I really want to see the flobnorcrantzer crantz the flobs. How can we make both work?”
Make sure you don’t say, “Bob’s a cunt.”
necrothitude_eve@reddit
This man corpos. If I remember my Dale Carnegie right, the most musical sound to someone's ears is their own name. The next most beautiful sound is that of their own voice. Learning manage other people into talking is a great skill.
newEnglander17@reddit
I am endlessly complimented by my senior peers for speaking yp and involving myself in decision making conversations. It’s a source of frustration for all of us that the majority of the people on the call never get involved or give any input good or bad.
guareber@reddit
I'll give you a hack: don't tell them, ask them instead.
The philosophy of asking vs telling makes a lot of things a lot easier to defend. Of course, you need to also be able to move on when the answer is not what you'd expect, but that's easier once you get into the mindframe of "I raised it, no longer my problem"
Foreign_Addition2844@reddit
You figured it out. A lot of work is busy work. That is, work that is not needed, but to justify keeping someone in the budget so that some manager can justify hisown position.
dnult@reddit
I'd continue to engage. If you really see an alternative you should voice it and your reasons why you think it's better. In the end we all have to agree on a path forward and work together. Sometimes that means being at peace with the fact you spoke up and you'll never have to say, "I told you so".
Qwertycrackers@reddit
yes, I am very very deep into "letting them do whatever". I'm happy to give my opinion when asked for, which is rarely. On those occasions it is typically respected.
kagato87@reddit
When you speak up, are you being confrontational or are you being exploratory?
There's lots of really old stupid crap in our product code.
And there's a lot of really old stupid looking crap that has a really good reason, once you dig in to it.
This is normal. Not even specific to development really... Approach from a desire to understand the why. Usually during that sharing they'll realize the flaws on their own. Or you'll realize why.
But if you just confront, you'll come off as a know-it-all.
hsrad@reddit
Instead of speaking... why dont you yourself start on what feel important. Move some metrics. Metrics don't have feelings, and no-one can repute that.
I never play 19-20 game.. where folks fight who is 20 and who is 19.
I play 10-20 game. Where wins is always mine.
Obsidian743@reddit
A lot of engineers are really bad at explaining their choices. I document my reasoning thoroughly and put it out there for people to see or respond to. If you have a strong case and still get push back I'd maybe ask for their justifications and then one more round of "talks" or documentation updates. After that, I move on and accept it.
hw999@reddit
You say "damn thats a great idea boss, i wish i thought of it", then go back to doing as little as possible. Fuck corporations, they dont deserve our blood, sweat, and tears.
sirquinsy@reddit
I’m going to says something out of my own experience and self reflection.
There are infinite ways to program something. Everyone has their own image in their head of what they’re trying to achieve. By speaking up and saying it’s not needed, you’re shutting down a conversation and that’s where I would be annoyed that we don’t even get to talk about it.
Instead when something doesn’t seem to be right, politely challenge it under the guise of exploratory questions.
Don’t say: “this won’t work, we should do this instead.”
Say: “I’m having trouble understanding this approach, we already fulfill this problem by xyz, could you explain how abc gets us there?”
Now it’s a conversation and people feel heard. You’re on a team, effective teams need to prioritize communication over everything else. Sometimes that means listening more than talking.
I say this because I’ve made myself unpopular before being bossy and my way or the highway. I look back with regret at how I behaved.
EffectiveCup2465@reddit
I would really recommend reading the following article, it helped me so much in the similar situation:
https://lalitm.com/post/why-senior-engineers-let-bad-projects-fail/
TL DR:
It looks like you exhausted your “credibility” and now people consider you a troublemaker, not an enabler. This can be changed with time, patience and establishing trust and good connections.
boboshoes@reddit
Yea slowly pull it back and keep turning in the tickets. Look for other work if you want to feel valued. This one is just a paycheck which isn’t a bad thing and don’t take it for granted.
theoneandonlypatriot@reddit
Consider that people do this so that they can appear busy to not lose their jobs
_5er_@reddit
If someone is not keen to feedback, I honestly don't bother.
Some people just don't want to improve. Their only goal in life is to move ticket to "done" status. Let them rot, if there is nothing to gain.
You can instead spend your time on doing better stuff.
leibnizrule@reddit
Just put the fries in the bag
flerchin@reddit
Imo talking ourselves out of work is often the most valuable engineering contribution to big meetings.
ElGuaco@reddit
Maybe, but I will tell you from experience that scope creep can end your job. It happened to me at my last job. I kept pushing back to product managers about scope creep while we're designing and implementing a new SaaS. I begged them to do more MVF work and add features later. They INSISTED the customer wouldn't accept the product unless all the feature were in place.
Guess what? They fired EVERYONE after a year of effort and nothing to show to the client. And by every one, I do mean everyone including the product managers. The work product of a dozen developers, dev ops, QA and UX designers all gone.
Last I heard they were trying to salvage it by using some cheap sweatshop overseas.
Scope creep can be managed by making sure you are still delivering on a regular cadence. Don't let it stop progress or you may find yourself jobless.
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
Ya projects taking longer than expected caused some projects here to be canceled.
writebadcode@reddit
I’d suggest only speaking up on stuff like this if it’s going to make more work for you.
It’s not your job to protect others from having too much work. Treat them like adults.
I’ve been on the other side of this and it’s actually very frustrating when someone who lacks the full context tries to help me. It’s often tiresome because it means I have to tactfully explain why their idea won’t work.
If you feel strongly about an idea, bring it up one to one with the person and ask if they’ve considered it, and lead with “I might be missing some context but I think this might simplify things”.
official_business@reddit
I'll speak up once.
I found that after that I just became annoying. It's usually a sign that your goals and priorities aren't aligned with the team or company goals and priorities.
PerryTheH@reddit
Good, now do OE, they won't notice.
ArchitectAces@reddit
yes you should stop speaking up. unless your title is manager
sdwvit@reddit
Why? Is it an American thing?
ArchitectAces@reddit
yes. in the US, the managers manage the business. they are in the HR meetings and they get the HR emails.
what if is someone presses a red button once a day and the business decided that is the best thing for them.
managers know what the business decided
QuitTypical3210@reddit (OP)
Thank u. Sounds about rightp
dopple-copter@reddit
Speak up only it is something you want to work on (like a project that will pad your internal "resume" for promotions) or stuff you just find fun.
Few-Artichoke-7593@reddit
The answer to that question is almost always yes.
CompetitionOdd1582@reddit
Very few people want to do more work without a reason.
Are you sure you're understanding the purpose behind what they're trying to achieve? I routinely have meetings where I say "Am I right in thinking that the goal here is _________. Please, speak up if I'm wrong."
Once you've established the goal, then you suggest your solution. Sell it on the benefits — it takes less time, it's more maintainable, it avoids a security risk, etc. Make sure your solution matches the goal. Do *not* act like it's the only option, you're bringing something to a discussion and the discussion still needs to happen.
If people are still heading towards the other solution, ask if that accomplishes the goal in a better way. It might reveal a requirement you weren't aware of or an issue they see with your solution.
Unfortunately, since you're no longer invited to the meetings where decisions are made, your opportunities for talking through options will be limited. You may want to practice having these sorts of conversations with other members on your team. Like everything else, communication is a skill.
It's worth noting that some requirements are due to corporate politics or the personalities of the people deciding. I used to do a lot consulting for startups that 'needed a mobile strategy' because one of their investors read an article about mobile eating the world. These requirements are infuriating, but they still exist.
Ambitious-Sense2769@reddit
I think it depends on your level of attachment to your work and what you’re doing. I used to care a lot and I would speak up all the time. But I’ve just been burnt out over the last five years so I rarely say much anymore. Now, just give me the tickets and I’ll do them..
Farva85@reddit
I make 1 comment verbally and 1 comment via text in the meeting. I consider that my check mark for attending and I never offer any thoughts unless asked directly because this team has a habit of not listening to their technical resources, so why say anything?
whitetiger1208@reddit
I quit almost a year ago to work on my own thing and you guys' stories keep reminding me what a shithole these fucking jobs are. Thanks for the reminders guys, I love coding and building stuff but I hate this fucking industry and the whole culture around it. Hopefully I can be truly free someday before I die.
GoodishCoder@reddit
It probably depends on the context of the conversations
RiddleGull@reddit
There’s only so much you can do. I’d at least switch teams if not jobs.