The invisible force making food less nutritious | "The diets we eat today have less nutritional density than what our grandparents ate - even if we eat exactly the same"
Posted by Acrobatic-Lynx-5018@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 78 comments
This issue has been studied for over a decade now - I first heard about it back in 2012.
Published today on The Washington Post, this article covers the decreasing nutritional value of major crops like chickpeas, potatoes, beans etc. As our population continues to grow and modern technology improves yields dramatically - the food itself is increasingly made of "empty" calories.
Of course in the developed world one can just take supplements, and good for them, but hundreds of millions of people do not have that option and will suffer enormously due to deficiencies, possibly fatally. Collapse related because when adding this to the already cancerous industry peddling Ultra Processed Foods - you are looking at a global disaster scenario playing out in real time.
societywasamistake@reddit
u mean selectively breeding all of our crops to be double or triple the size in water weight, and able to sit on shelves for weeks at a time didn’t make them healthier ??
chickey23@reddit
The article blames air quality
UuusernameWith4Us@reddit
The article says
chickey23@reddit
If they want detail, they can read the article
daviddjg0033@reddit
I cannot read I just melted down saying the oceans are 21C. The monocultures of the banana led to a collapse so short of that or a bird flu that decimated the ability of farmers to raise chicken, a pig, goat or cow that will not happen. We will be seeing record beef prices and a return of Wendy's, "Where is the beef?" commercials as 2oz sliders or 4oz is the luxury IT ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
I just felt the capital letters. Peanuts and legumes. I love black beans but pinto are good and red so you get the idea. Red meat causes colon cancer period. We know this and continue to eat meat.
Published today on The Washington Post, this article covers the decreasing nutritional value of major crops like chickpeas, potatoes, beans etc.
We genetically bred crops to be resistant to chemicals like Round-up, to withstand drought when the US helped Africa in the 1970s-2000s and it worked it was a marvel of modern science.
What we did not realize was how bad the models were off. Sitting here dreaming of the ecosystem that does not emit carbon - the boreal, the amazon, the ocean itself will burp CO2 like a fizz from the soda all else equal with CO2 - that ocean was such a good absorber of the molecule from hell that we did not notice what most of the CO2 is dissolved into the ocean CO2 + H20 > HC03- + H+ a proton. This makes the ocean more acidic.
The heat and the acidity is destroying the coral reefs. Calcium shells well the do not like that H+ acid proton from the CO2 dissolving in water.
The coral reefs are functually extinct the dead ecosystem walking and why we are not collecting every Amazon and every coral reef for the diversity of wildlife that include molecules that are the key to curing the anger inside of me. The sponges are filtering the ocean and they are what filtering plastic" I read smokingtyger talk about the boreal is going to burn. Yes, yes, they are - but we have until this summer to get this out in form otherwise how many bleaching of the coral reefs before the ecosystem is dead.
And when the coral reefs are dead despite only being 1% of the ocean it is 50% of the species or more and that is more CO2 released...
chickey23@reddit
So, basically, yes.
It is my understanding that the coral reefs as sessile organisms will dissolve. The reef itself will reform wherever conditions are right, even if it takes thousands of years, because the gametes float through the very cold ocean.
Now, the knock-on effects for the species that rely on the reef will be disastrous, and they will have to try to find their own way to survive.
The planet might enjoy a few thousands years of simple plant life and arthropods.
daviddjg0033@reddit
which releases more CO2 until the comment below me is true while a whole new class replaces mammalia - it was fun being warm blooded while it lasted. see you on the flip side fello mammal.
inafrog@reddit
The meek shall inherit the earth
fortunatelydstreet@reddit
its soil. throwing fertilizer every year isn't the same as Nile flooding your field with natural components. topsoil loss is the issue. it takes decades to get the kinda soil our grandparents grew from. we mass harvested and sucked the earth dry, cant just drizzle sand on top n expect the same nutrient density
chickey23@reddit
Agreed. If you keep adding a chemically pure additive, you're missing the impurities
Same_Bug5069@reddit
But a climate denier I know said the world has never been greener!
Smh
Da_Question@reddit
And yet literally everytime I buy berries from the grocery store they get mold in like 2 days.
Untura64@reddit
Don't forget about the heavy metals contamination.
philip8421@reddit
Maybe read the article?
Static66@reddit
It’s behind a paywall. Many of us won’t be paying for the Bezos post….
atascon@reddit
Slight tangent but nutrient density is an interesting one because it's the latest buzzword that Food Inc has jumped on now with the weight loss jabs. They'll increasinbly be trying to sell individual processed foods with really high protein/fibre or whatever else amounts based on the idea that one food having A LOT of something is good. This is also a common argument Meat Inc uses, namely that meat is very nutritionally dense.
However I would argue that with a balanced diet, and assuming you're not a nomadic desert tribe short on food options, you don't need one specific food to contribute an outsized % of any given nutrient.
Classic case of creating a problem (i.e. the modern extractive fossil fuel-based food system that leads to what OP is saying) and selling you a cure.
Acrobatic-Lynx-5018@reddit (OP)
I agree, I have also noticed this protein/fiber craze and its such obvious marketing BS. I really liked Lewis Black's furious rant about the modern protein craze. I think a lot of people are flirting with kidney disease with the ratio and sheer amount of protein they are constantly gobbling down.
Any reasonably balanced diet will provide plenty macros and there is zero need to supplement or fortify them into food products. Perhaps psyllium husk fiber could help people with pre-existing conditions but so much GI disease is caused by the diet itself so... its fixing a symptom and ignoring the problem in many cases, but of course many are also born with it or have a strong genetic predisposition. I'm not one of those nutters that thinks diet can cure all disease lol.
Another problem I see is just how little time doctors put into considering a patient's diet and exercise. They know they should but almost never do. And this isn't just ancedotal, I know this happens nationwide - your doctor will ask if you smoke or drink, how you're currently feeling and (aside from incredibly basic blood panels) that's the whole visit.
In a nation with more lawyers than doctors it shouldn't be surprising that we only get 15 minutes of face time on average and anything beyond a basic blood panel is an expensive luxury...
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
If you have more protein, or more carbs, or more fats.... it's just "more calories" to the body. No real threat of anything. https://i.imgur.com/bmvZXe6.jpeg
PatrolMan2129@reddit
Why are you selling a demonstrably false idea?
If you feed someone more than 35% of their TDEE in protein calories, you risk protein toxicity, for example.
I can also show bad effect on high fat.
Showing an imgur that shows effect on weight loss is not a stand-in for long term health consequences.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
I feel like this is something taken extremely out of context by shysters looking for clicks. It's pretty damn hard to get even 100-150 grams of protein into your body on the daily, so I think an apt question is: Is it even a realistic fear to get "protein toxicity" on even a modest diet of 2500kcal/day?
I've also never heard about this from literally anyone, so there's that.
Acrobatic-Lynx-5018@reddit (OP)
I reacted to your comment before really thinking about it so that's my bad.
I mean I didn't reply but it would have been something defensive or rude.
Some people are consuming way too much protein but you're right, these are outliers.
PatrolMan2129@reddit
My aunt's friend got it at a party, after gorging on all-you-can-eat shrimp and had to go to the hospital. Also, I'm not sure if you're social media, but there are plenty in the keto/carnivor/fitness crowd that suggest getting at least 1g per pound bodyweight minimum protein.... and some even saying 300 grams. Example:
So much so, that the guy who is the godfather of keto had to warn specifically against it.
I can also draw up less acute illnesses but a relation to chronic illness on a high fat diet, which practically the entire west is on and dies from on the regular.
Anyway, the overall point is that a calorie isn't a calorie isn't a calorie. Even ignoring health, if your body were to convert protein to carbohydrates, besides straining the kidneys, there's a loss of about 40% of the energy to do so.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Seeing how we all know about 150 people, that's 150*150, sooo... 1/22500. :P
PatrolMan2129@reddit
Yeah, that's acute cases of protein poisoning. By retirement, most modern people will have lost about 1/3 of their kidney capacity (eGFR), most of it probably from a combination of hypertension and excess animal protein. And that hypertension is often bought on by too much protein, amongst other things.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Love the meme videos that guy produced. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBUpJtYFTw
Also: "He had a family history of heart problems"
PatrolMan2129@reddit
In the west, most people have a history of "heart problems" because they eat themselves into it. That's why heart disease is the leading cause of death and was for over a century, about 1/3 of deaths.
Ree_For_Thee@reddit
Actually I was wrong! It's 3 steps, not 2, so you have to do 150x150x150 = 1 in 3.4 million :)
DissedFunction@reddit
MDs get a couple hour lecture in med school on nutrition. and it's basically only a biochemical lecture and not much else.
pretty sad
Hint-Of-Feces@reddit
Are the crops not being bred for yield and not nutritional value? There's always a trade off
thechilecowboy@reddit
Organic Gardening published a study in the 90s that indicated food was 70% less nutritious than food from the 50s. Why? Petroleum fertilizers and loss of soil due to the use of the moldboard plow and monoculture. Industry and governments ignored it - and studies by Elaine Ingham and the essays of Wedell Berry.
ImSuperHelpful@reddit
Good thing we eat like 250% more food than they did back in the 50s. Right? No flaw in that logic slaps dust from hands
thechilecowboy@reddit
Part of that is because food is no longer nutritious. So you have to eat more just to get "fed".
TheCosmosItself1@reddit
Exactly. A lot of the obesity that we see is due to the fact that food is lacking in micro-nutrients and so people over eat macros in an attempt to meet their need for various micros.
ImSuperHelpful@reddit
That’s absolutely absurd… the obesity epidemic is because food has been made addictive by capitalism in an effort to sell more and then it’s hammered into our brains constantly by advertising. The nutrition inside it is not what drives our eating habits, a severely obese person doesn’t magically stop eating when they happen to actually get proper nutrition for the day, they keep going and load up on shit.
Da_Question@reddit
Well, in part yes. People also have the option to stay inside and generally be more sedentary. Work is in offices, people have hobbies like gaming or watching shows, etc. Top all that off with the fact that you have to drive everywhere and most places don't have public transit or even much walkability. It makes for low metabolism, but enjoyable tasty food means people like eating, even if the food is unhealthy.
thechilecowboy@reddit
Both can be true. And both are.
TheCosmosItself1@reddit
How has food been made "addictive?" Primarily by loading it up with cheap ingredient that in natural contexts serve as a good proxy for the presence of a range of micronutrients. Mostly sugar (which is nature means fruit) and salt (primary natural source being seafood).
thechilecowboy@reddit
And, of course, this system allows industry to make addictive products like junk food to get people to feel "satisfied" - but not actually nourished.
I continue to believe - and I small farmed, organically, for 15 years - that real food solutions need to be local and community based.
refusemouth@reddit
I'm just going to start eating oil products and fertilizer directly, and cut out the middle man.
DickStatkus@reddit
Oil is calorie dense after all
Voces-Prohibere@reddit
sooo many calories in gasoline.
Frostyrepairbug@reddit
A gallon of gas has enough calories to last you the rest of your life.
thechilecowboy@reddit
Please! Share what you know.
Accurate-Biscotti775@reddit
The Onion did a great video on this topic recently: vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqsoH4rI8Ec
mrsduckie@reddit
just be careful about the rust on your exhaust pipe
TA20212000@reddit
Bless you <3
fd1Jeff@reddit
Yes. I saw healthcare professionals talking about this kind of thing back in the mid 90s. The food was already terrible then.
And yet every time I post anywhere on Reddit about the value of organic and whatever, I get down voted to hell.
3rdWaveHarmonic@reddit
Down voting so hot rn.
PowerandSignal@reddit
Downvoted on principle!
/jk.
Informal-Sea-6047@reddit
I would argue it is not the petroleum fertilizers and more the cides. Pesticides, fungicide, etc. And poorer soil microbes because of glyphosate and the cides. N, P and K are the same no matter where they come from on a molecular level.
thechilecowboy@reddit
I'd say it's both!
Informal-Sea-6047@reddit
And it could be. I think it could be a factor of a bunch of things. Air quality, micro plastics, heat and chemicals.
Electrical_Gas_517@reddit
There is, indeed, a race to save our soil.
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Plants grown with greater CO2 concentrations grew bigger but had less nutritious value.
NihiloZero@reddit
431 ppm may not seem like much until it's in a filtering process of some sort, which is kinda part of what plant growth is.
DestroyTheMatrix_3@reddit
Reason no. #305 not to go vegan.
PatrolMan2129@reddit
Is this like a checkbook where you started at #300, because otherwise we're just surprised you can count that high, lol.
eatingscaresme@reddit
I am curious about food grown by local farmers, and in personal gardens. I would guess that they would be more nutritious due to not being commercially grown?
Wooden-Rooster8203@reddit
I've had a sneaking suspicion that part of the obesity crisis is being fueled by the fact that pretty much all of our food is less nutritious, which leads to people subconsciously eating more to try and meet those needs, and that means increased calories.
fedexyourheadinabox@reddit
The invisible force: Capitalism
ahmtiarrrd@reddit
What's the problem? Just eat 10x more food!
Oh wait, right, food is becoming less available every day. Nevermind
verstohlen@reddit
Not in the U.S., that's for sure.
673moto@reddit
"invisible force" ...you mean corporations?
ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit
The invisible hand of the free market.
hippydipster@reddit
Gettin' the invisible spanking here.
ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit
haha!
Kaining@reddit
Invisible only because the epstein files have been redacted.
We got names for the bastard behind that not so free market and the world has just decided to not take them accountable.
ThirdFloorNorth@reddit
Capitalism.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
You don't mean oil companies, don't you? /s
pacificlattice@reddit
the songs the books the movies everything is like that lol we have more of the stuff but the stuff is less good
hippydipster@reddit
It seems focused entirely on mineral deficiencies, which makes sense to me as a soil depletion issue. But they blame the carbon dioxide in the air, which seems odd. I would think some greenhouse experiments would resolve the questions though.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
We eat what our food eats. Take chicken. Chicken feed used to be high quality grains and scraps, now it's feathers and other reclaimed nutrients. When you feed the waste of processing an animal to the next generation, it's like a nutritional photocopy of a photocopy.
thehourglasses@reddit
Unless I’m mistaken, supplements do nothing for your microbiota, and a healthy gut is the key to living a healthy, full life. There’s a reason colon cancer is the fastest rising health concern among millennials—processed food is poison.
PatrolMan2129@reddit
Well, that, and meat eaters have higher colon cancer, amongst a host of other problems.
Processed food is also problematic obviously.
Same_Bug5069@reddit
Yes, high fiber diet centered around fruits, vegetables, and whole grains is best. The issue in the article still remains, though.
brickout@reddit
My grandmother talked about this 30 years ago
mood-park@reddit
Evidently she was right
nohopeforhomosapiens@reddit
archive link: https://archive.is/mBiRu