No, the war in Ukraine is not the West's fault

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

Former colonial powers needed an enemy to find a casus belli to interfere with the local politics of smaller and/or less developed countries within the EU.

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Max_smoke@reddit

To stretch your analogy further.

The neighbors are hitting the gym and buying guns so that if the bully goes after them next they’ll be ready.

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To stretch it further, the guy sitting in the office is making sure that the neighbours are forced to buy office guy's weapons if that happens, but the people dying to fight the bully would be the neighbours. Even if office guy is pushing them to fight when they could somehow tolerate each other.

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Max_smoke@reddit

This is where the analogy crumbles. The colonial argument crumbles in light of the facts, and the whole analogy stinks of tanky argumentation.

Russia started the war, and Ukraine is choosing to fight back. If they didn't want to, they would've surrendered by now. No external "pushing them to fight" from some vague "colonial" power would work if the people being attacked didn't want to fight. See Afghanistan after the US left, see Iraq when a small band of ISIL invaded.

80% of Ukraine's weapons procurement budget is domestic. The remainder is mostly European weapons, not American. It's not cut and dry "office guy just wants a long war to sell weapons." Office guys have been targeted for assassination because of their business selling to Ukraine.

Europe as a whole has a stake in the conflict. As any self interested person or government would, they'd like to externalize the cost and keep the war in Ukraine, but they're not sitting on their hands doing nothing. They are making changes to beef up their armies and aiding the Ukrainians without escalating the conflict.

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

And your whole analogy crumbles are "Europe as a whole at stake".

Europe is not a country.

Like I said, Western Europeans use the situation to have a casus belli to interfere in the internal affairs of smaller and/or poorer countries.

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Max_smoke@reddit

Europe as a whole has a stake

What I actually said...

Europe as a whole at stake

Versus the straw man you made, emphasis mine. I hope you can see the difference. Your whole argument falls apart, because it isn't against anything I said.

Europe is not a country

I never argued that it was. You must be lost in your notifications.

Try again.

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

It's 100% not. The fault of the Ukraine war is solely on Russia.

Russia invaded in a wanton act of aggression, twice. And has done so to other neighbors as well.

Russia is an aggressive authoritarian nation seeking to subjugate others. And defending against that aggression is something I fully support. I just also don't think anyone should be forced to support it via their taxes.

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Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)

Agreed

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thetruthisnowhere13@reddit

Sure the west and European countries played no part in instigating and provoking Russia. It all just happened in a vacuum! All the countries involved suck and are all partially to blame.

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!

—Abusers Handbook page 1

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thetruthisnowhere13@reddit

Holy misinformation Batman!! Just go read Scott Hortons book Provoked and then come back with some "realism". This video is complete nonsense.

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Anen-o-me@reddit (OP)

I disagree with Horton and consider him time misinformation. Maybe you've been brainwashed by him if you've only seen his side.

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BastiatF@reddit

False dichotomy. Two opposing parties can be wrong.

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thetruthisnowhere13@reddit

LOL you consider him misinformation? That speaks volumes to your intelligence. He cites his sources and has seen the Empire of America continuously lie through every war/conflict/disaster of the past 50+ yrs. How about you attack his arguments with some actual facts and logic? No one has claimed what Russia did was "right" or moral. Just that it's pretty fucking understandable considering US/Europe actions that Russia reacted in the way that they have. Ukraine has zero importance with regard to our security in the US.

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