Surface Pro 12: New Microsoft Surface 2-in-1 revealed with up to 32 GB RAM and Intel Panther Lake
Posted by -protonsandneutrons-@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 48 comments
siouxu@reddit
Thank God they went with x86l and an actual current architecture and node
DerpSenpai@reddit
This is for business. Consumers get Qualcomm (the QC versions are faster too)
chudrickg@reddit
qc version is faster yet it gets demolished by a zen 4 8c mobile soc? istg fraudbench 6 as a reference point has mindbroken all nerds. https://www.phoronix.com/review/snapdragon-x-elite-linux-eoy2025
EdgiiLord@reddit
Nobody cares
sadelnotsaddle@reddit
So... are we going to get more and better support for software on QC?
DerpSenpai@reddit
Windows software has no issue with ARM
sadelnotsaddle@reddit
tell that to my vpn's desktop app, half the adobe suite and arcgis. Even in the year i've owned a surface though the support has improved, so I hope that trend continues. I was worried that MS would abandon arm on the next gen and as a result the support pipeline might dry up.
DerpSenpai@reddit
which VPN? a lot of them have ported to ARM
also which adobe products don't have ARM versions?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1mdbb46/windows_on_arm_gets_native_premiere_pro_after
alabasterskim@reddit
You're not helping the growth of Windows on ARM by lying about the current state of it. You can both want it to flourish and acknowledge significant gaps in support and compatibility.
DerpSenpai@reddit
Have you used it? With AVX2 emulation now every program that needs emulation works. Only kernel level anti cheats dont from some companies who have not ported it
alabasterskim@reddit
Most likely this is just the business line, just like the Laptops only getting Intel on the business ones.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
The Panther Lake vs Wildcat Lake SKU names are a mess, with significant overlap in numbering.
Non-H Cougar Cove-based CPUs
If the SKU ends in a 0 or 5, it's what you expect: 4+4 for PTL and 2+4 for WCL.
If the SKU ends in 2 or 4, it's significantly weaker bin.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
And, yes, before someone says it: yes, these will all be likely slower than the Neo in 1T performance. Cougar Cove is behind Apple in IPC / perf per GHz.
Intel CU7 325: 2530 points / 4.462 GHz = 567 Pts / GHz (100%) - Surface Pro 12 PTL
Apple A18 Pro: 3589 points / 4.040 GHz = 888 Pts / GHz (157%) - MacBook Neo A18 Pro
Apple A19 Pro: 3889 points / 4.260 GHz = 913 Pts / GHz (161%) - MacBook Neo 2 A19 Pro?
Neo scores are from NBC, but clocks confirmed in GB6 as NBC doesn't link its GB6 run. Apple and Intel are now just a few hundred MHz different in their mid-range parts.
dropthemagic@reddit
Damn
R-ten-K@reddit
It's fascinating how far ahead Apple's phone cores are from either x86 vendor.
certainlystormy@reddit
the power of well made ARM lol
Vb_33@reddit
Apple would have done the same on x86 if they had a license and inevitably they'll do the same on RISCV.
torpedospurs@reddit
Don't even have to look there. Qualcomm is one gen behind Apple and is still killing Intel and AMD.
djmakk@reddit
It’s so infuriating that autodesk wont port revit to osx. I‘m fine buying windows desktops for workstation tasks, but I’d rather be able to use a MacBook when on the go.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
It is a little crazy, particularly for laptop CPUs. In the mainstream 5-10 years ago, claims like \^\^ happening in 2026 would've probably had folks laughed out of most forums.
ParanoidalRaindrop@reddit
I don't even think IPC matters in this classs. Pricing is what MS loses on.
DerpSenpai@reddit
Wildcat is comparable to a phone budget flagship chip from a year ago, the 8s gen 4
996forever@reddit
Amd makes a current gen “Ryzen AI 7” with a 2+4C config with the single thread performance of Apple m2 (based on iPhone 13 uArch) in Geekbench despite zen 5 supporting half width avx512.
DerpSenpai@reddit
Yes, AMD doing that is really bad too
996forever@reddit
The “ryzen AI 7 445” is worse than the “ryzen AI 5 340” in every way. Truly inspiring
trololololo2137@reddit
why is wildcat lake even a thing. it gets 2020 (6 years ago) M1 numbers while most likely not even being more efficient. the GPU is also meh.
just sell the last gen parts if you need cheap stuff
steve09089@reddit
They don’t want to be selling last gen parts, and last gen parts are way behind on single core and even more behind on efficiency.
trololololo2137@reddit
2.5k GB6 single thread is making it a last gen part though. they are barely competing with 5-6 year old tablets.
996forever@reddit
2.5k GB6 single is equivalent to mid range AMD zen 5 mobile offerings. The popular cheap “ryzen ai 7 445” gets about 2.6k and that’s their current gen mainstream sku while the 450-470 are less common this year.
Front_Expression_367@reddit
The point is that they are significantly more efficient in terms of wattage consumption compared to RPL-U or MTL-U or ARL-U, the thing that these chips seem to be replacing. You can hardly find any designs that are fanless for the chip I mention, whereas the first reference laptop for Wildcat Lake is a fanless one. Also 5-6 years old
Exist50@reddit
It's significantly cheaper to make and gives better performance and battery life than the last gen parts. And the main thing this is replacing is actually ADL/RPL-U.
Waste_Hotel5834@reddit
315 and 304 have 1 Xe core instead of 2.
Waste_Hotel5834@reddit
But in general I agree with you. The naming is a mess and there shouldn't be so many models. To sell a Wildcat Lake chip as "Core 7" is absurd.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
Oh, whoops, I missed that one. Thank you for the correction; fixed.
Yeah, it seems like a pretty high model # for what is a relatively low-end part.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
I think the naming scheme makes sense except for one or two parts the CU5 332 should not exist. Makes no sense for it to be worse then the CU5 325.
The CU5 322 should be renamed the CU3 320
Those two changes would fix a lot.
The big differentiator in naming between PTL and WCL is the "Ultra" moniker, which is fine.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
That's also fair. I mostly prefer different core counts to be different lines, even if some are Wildcat Lake versus Panther Lake. For example, the Core 7 360 seems out of place with only a 2+4 CPU. Sure, a high 1T clock, but losing half your P-cores seems odd for a "Core 7" and such high numbering.
Something like this:
4+4 w/ big NPU = Ultra 7 37x
2+4 w/ big NPU = Ultra 5 35x
2+4 w/ small NPU: Core 5 35x
1+4 w/ small NPU: Core 3 33x
\^\^ Notably, I also prefer single-digit SKU gaps, like 370, 375, 377, etc.
soggybiscuit93@reddit
Your suggestion also works.
But WCL is also half the iGPU and single channel memory. The 2+0+4 PTL is PTL with 2 defective cores.
2+0+4 WCL is the full die
No_Figure_6287@reddit
Man! No 12 core gpu b390 graphics variant??
imaginary_num6er@reddit
And probably costing $4999?
alabasterskim@reddit
It will most likely cost more like $1500-2000.
FranciumGoesBoom@reddit
A dual screen 16 in laptop with a RTX 5090 is a similar device to a Surface?
u01728@reddit
Zephyrus Duo is also not the average Panther Lake-equipped laptop and so not a good pricing benchmark?
airfryerfuntime@reddit
And for the low price of $3800!
alabasterskim@reddit
Base model only, keyboard + stylus sold separately.
allthebaseareeee@reddit
Are they keyboards on these less.... shit now days?
timfountain4444@reddit
Wow, I just got a panther lake dell latitude with 32 GB. I guess I was lucky.
Irregular_Person@reddit
I just picked up a Meteor Lake Thinkpad with 64GB for 1.2k-ish, it's doing great
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