Firearm needs for my specific area
Posted by Swimming-Soup5868@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 152 comments
I have a solar setup and water purification systems and a small stream and pond in my backyard kinda. Ive also stored a bunch of information on paper in handbook form and have been learning physical skills for shtf. Im also physicslly fit and train everyday. But i have no firearms and is the next direction im going since im lilely most behind in that. I already know the first gun im buying and its a 12 gauge shotgun just because of its versatility and popularity but i expect to get more then just one shotgun. But dont know what gun to buy from here or what to do next in general. I dont live in Rural area I live in suburban New Jersey which has one of the lowest gun ownership rates anywhere.
Also for more context the solar setup is happenstance and so is the water purification. Im not the one who got it and its not for prepping though it can be setup and adjusted for it with some simple diy.
kaptainkilo@reddit
I always recommend the American Trio: A quality AR15 in 5.56, A G19 in 9mm, and a 12ga pump shotgun. You can do just about anything you need to do in North America with that stack.
FullNeanderthall@reddit
.22 is in 4th place
JRHLowdown3@reddit
This would be the place to start +1
kaptainkilo@reddit
(and from there you can get exotic, but that's the base)
Strict-Board-123@reddit
9mm handgun, 12 gauge, .22 for small game, .762 for big game. Keep is simple.
Connect-Town-602@reddit
Ruger 10/22. Cheap ammo comparatively speak. Store up at least 500 rounds. Fires from a 10rd rotary magazine. Sub sonic rounds are available. Buy spare mags, as you can reload this quickly.
HalcyonKnights@reddit
The thing about SHTF gun use is that ammunition becomes scarce very quickly, so you have to put some thought into how much to stockpile. For pure defensive intimidation you hopefully wouldnt actually use much ammo, but if you are planning to Hunt for food, it'll go much faster (and you'd probably want a rifle as well, for larger game at a distance).
the_chazzy_bear@reddit
You overestimate a little bit with how quick ammo goes. My 30-06 gets me on average 1 deer/animal per shot. I can stockpile quite a bit of ammo in a pretty small space. Hunting would not be a go to food source but saving up some ammo is not a big space waster. There really isn’t any good reason I can think of to not have some guns as another step in your plan.
Spiritual-City3436@reddit
Do not expect to hunt for food for very long, if at all.
At the slightest sign of the food chain being disrupted, the woods can turn into a damn warzone because every Tom, Dick, and Harry will all have the bright idear of baggin a hwitetail as soon as ASAP, hunting season be damned. Ditto with fishing.
Better off just trying to raise chickens if you can, rabbits if you can’t.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Yeah I know I was thinking of how prolly 95% of encounters I won't even need to fire a round. Especially that only 10% of nj households have a gun
HalcyonKnights@reddit
Just a bit of Devil's Advocate on that, but the stat's Im seeing are \~10% of People but it surged closer to \~20% of housholds since 2020, and thats the ones that have a Registered Gun. Im cynical enough to believe a lot of people have acquired/inherited guns that they've had no reason to mention to any officials.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
New Jersey subarbs is to expensive for people to break the law. I think my town is on the lower end of that. But good to know
AmazingFrame2653@reddit
I’m in NJ as well, we’re tied for lowest registered gun owners with Massachusetts. I’m sure if you included all the illegal firearms in Paterson Trenton Irvington East Orange etc it would be a little higher. Either way it’s low and would give guys like us a statistical advantage by default if something terrible happened. The average gun owner has 4-5 supposedly which would even further the gap if you were to arm family or friend.
DeFiClark@reddit
Average defensive shooting is 1.8 rounds, fired in total by both parties.
The folks who think ammunition goes scarce quickly haven’t lived in failed states. I’ve lived in two and my ammunition consumption was zero.
That said, enough ammunition to be able to train regularly is important.
Soff10@reddit
9mm and .40 caliber are the most common police rounds used. My old department had 20 pallets of each at all times.
762way@reddit
Are semi automatic shotguns legal in NJ?
If they are the best, most affordable 12 gauge is the JTS MK12 shotgun, Comes with one 5 round magazine. It is an AK-47.
At the save time I recommend buying three 10 round magazines.
I can shoot 5 rounds of beautiful 12 gauge rounds in under 4 seconds.
Less than $400 for the shotgun.
Magazines will be more.
Look at Bud's Guns, PSA, ect for the shotgun.
I like it so much that I bought a second one. Several of my friends have purchased them too and everyone loves them.
stream_inspector@reddit
12 gauge and . 22lr will do anything and any animal inside 100 yds (slugs for big stuff, turkey loads, buckshot, bird shot. ; .22 for squirrels, varmints)
For handheld - 9mm pistol. Everyone will have that ammo.
Last would be rifle for longer shots. AR or scoped bolt action.
Paranormal_Lemon@reddit
You can do anything you can with a 22lr and more with a 9mm carbine, maybe to 50yrds instead of 100. For squirrels and rabbits head shot or trapping.
stream_inspector@reddit
I've read about them (9mm carbine) but have no experience with any. I'm just used to head shot squirrels w . 22 in order to save meat. If a carbine can do that, sounds good.
Paranormal_Lemon@reddit
You could head shot a squirrel at 25yrds every time, then you have the option to use a +P load for deer. You also gain about 25% more energy than a full size handgun due to the longer barrel. The bullet has more drag due to the shape so energy drops off fast past 50yrds, still plenty lethal for defense out to 100.
Fr33speechisdeAd@reddit
Yes, with a 12 gauge and a 9mm, he should be all set in NJ. If it gets to the point where you need an AR, you've got a whole different set of problems. I carry a sub compact 9mm every day and it's quite comfortable. Don't know what the laws are in NJ for carry though. I'm in Texas.
CCWaterBug@reddit
Same thoughts.
Ruger 10/22
9mm semi (many options)
Shotgun, pump or semi auto. Depending on budget a mossberg 590 or a cheap Turkish model.
Lumpy-Fill@reddit
A maverick 88 would probably be the same price if not cheaper than a turkish shotgun and much better quality.
flyguy_mi@reddit
get the 2 barrel set. Get the shorty slug barrel and the longer multi choke barrel, you will have one that does it all.
Lumpy-Fill@reddit
Ive had mine for 16ish years, beat the shit out of it and its still going strong.
dragger0975@reddit
Don’t go with anything Turkish, the metallurgy isn’t there and the don’t have the product life to them. American, Italian, and Japanese are much better.
NWYthesearelocalboys@reddit
Thats not true in all instances. Several Turkish pistol manufacturers use hammer forged steel for frames and slides.
Canik 9mm and Tisas 1911's are good to go and a great value compared to glock, SIG, HK and other big name competitors.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
Might I suggest a combination of firearms?
A revolver and levergun, both chambered in 357 Magnum, will handle 99% of practical firearms needs. I have a couple of write-ups on 357 Magnum (one specifically for use cases in sidearms, and one for use cases in long guns.
I can copy and paste both here, if you like.
Consistent-Slice-893@reddit
I have an old IMI Timberwolf pump, and I approve this message. Just stick with the 158gn loads for the carbine, if you don't reload. The 125gn stuff tends to blow up on game and not penetrate really well. I load some 180-grain gas check cast bullets with a powder more suitable for an 18" barrel (Lil Gun) and they THUMP. I get about 1375fps with really good accuracy.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
What's crazy is the Buffalo Bore loads get 1400-1650 foot pounds of energy from rifles. Their 180 grain hard cast hits 1850-1900 FPS.
Consistent-Slice-893@reddit
I have no idea how they get that speed. No load data I have found gets anywhere close.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
Well, they have access to specially blended progressive powders that most companies don't.
PARENTHAM@reddit
I am with you on the 357
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Interesting selection compared to everybody else.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
Here ya go!
So, both of my carry revolvers are 3 inchers, for a few reasons. First and foremost, 3" almost gets you the ballistics of the 4", and the difference can be more than made up for with proper ammo selection. Second, you get a much better sight radius than the snubbies, and also very importantly, a full length ejector rod. So you don't really lose much by not getting the 4", but you also gain a few meaningful advantages going longer than ~2".
So, I have the 686+ 3" 7 shot, and the Model 60 3" 5 shot, which is close to the K6S in size and configuration. People always say that there's "no way to get fast and accurate follow up shots with a small framed, short barreled 357 Magnum revolver, however, just like anything, if you train with it, you'll be fine. I've found the platform to be very quick and accurate if the user does their part. I've even been known to sling 200 grain hard cast bullets from the M60 for funzies, just because it can. Does it hurt? Yeah, a little, but so does a really crisp high five, and they're still worth it.
And on to the practicality... What's not practical about a carriable five, six, seven, or eight shooter? Revolvers are nothing but practical. That's kind of their MO. There's no extra bells and whistles, but you get your 5-8 shots for sure, and that 5-8 can be one of the most effective cartridges in common use, coming from a very mechanically accurate firearm. If it's the capacity that worries you, don't worry about it. ASP recently released a video proving that capacity is pretty much a meme, and that most civilian CCW uses are over in 5 shots or less, and I'll post that here if I remember to look for it. He's also not seen a civilian reload, if memory serves. 6 rounds cover ~85% of circumstances, when lumping all calibers together, but I can all but guarantee the number of shots required reduces as the caliber gets more capable.
https://youtu.be/p7x1p_lC29g?si=076CAR2XsoH7xKJo
And if the capacity still kinda worries you, just remember that you're not playing with just a 9mm anymore; you have much more horsepower available. And to anyone who says it makes no difference... I say bull. The fact of the matter is, when you shoot something other than paper, against a stronger threat than a shot timer, the real world experience says that there's a HUGE difference in performance. Now yes, shot placement above all else 100%, absolutely, but most people shot by handguns survive, meaning that shooters are NOT getting those CNS hits they talk about most of the time. The ballistic difference between 9mm and 357 Magnum cannot be overlooked; the difference in damage on living things is very easily recognized, and time of incapacitation between the two cartridges is very different on things like hogs, deer, bears, oh my, notably in favor of the 357 Magnum, and the numbers support this.
If you look at Greg Elliefritz's "An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power," you'll see that there's really not much difference between calibers from 380 to 40 S&W, but the 357 Magnum stands head and shoulders above the rest in a couple regards; first and foremost, lethality. Comparing 9mm to 357 Magnum, you'll see that the 9mm has a lethality rate of 24%, regardless of how many shots are fired. The 357 Magnum has a lethality rate of 34%... That's a very big difference. That's going from just under a quarter lethality, to just over a third. That means the 357 Magnum is lethal about 42% more often. That cannot be ignored. The second item that should be noted is the "failure to stop" rate. This means that, no matter how many rounds are fired, the defender fails to stop the threat. For 9mm, that rate was 13%, which is pretty much average for most handgun cartridges. For 357 Magnum, that rate was... 9%. You might look at that and say, "Okay, so? What's the big deal?" Well, dear reader, that means that the 357 Magnum is doing more work, with less rounds on board; putting threats down better. 9% to 13% might not sound huge, but that means that the 9mm failed to stop the threat about 44% more often than 357 Magnum. And if that still doesn't sound like that big of a deal, keep in mind that center-fire rifles in the same study also had a failure to stop rate of 9%, and if you admit that rifles are more effective than 9mm, you have to admit that the 357 Magnum is too. If that doesn't give you a slight second of bewilderment, I don't know what will. Now, am I suggesting that a 357 Magnum is as good as a rifle? Of course not, but for something that you can easily conceal on your person... It's probably the best thing you can have for putting threats down. Then, there's the added benefit that, if you can learn to shoot a double action revolver well, you can shoot anything well.
https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power
The 357 Magni-Festo;
Alright, yeah, so I heavily suggest 357 Magnum. Why you might ask? Check this out. 357 Magnum can obviously be chambered in rifles, duty sized revolvers, compact ones, and even pocket guns. Having all way ammo compatibility between all your firearms is awesome, and realistically you'd only have to stock one/two types of ammo, being 38Spl and 357 Magnum. Snake shot, wadcutters, Keith SWC, SWCHP, JHP, LRN, FMJ, multi ball. Mouse fart to all the buck and roar you'd need to kill anything on the continent, mild to wild, pistol to rifle; all of these are available to you.
Now, let me tell you why I suggest 357 Magnum as far as rifles go. 357 Magnum is REALLY boogying out of a rifle. Standard off the shelf stuff will get you a bit over 1,000 FPE, which is roughly where 5.56 sits for energy, but with a larger projectile and more momentum (i.e., larger wound channel overall, deeper penetration, more thump).
However, the REAL money maker is in the heavy full powered Magnum loads. If you're using Buffalo Bore, it'll push a 158 grain pill at 2153 FPS, which is squarely in 30-30 territory, but with 10+1 in a 20 inch barrel rather than 5-6. You're literally right about DOUBLING your capacity, and not really giving up much if anything in ballistics because you're pushing a larger diameter projectile anyway. Now, yes, the BC will be lower than 30-30, but the 158 grain XTP is a really great projectile with a solid .2 BC, and if zeroed 3 ish inches high at 100 yards and the Buffalo Bore 158 grain XTP, you're only 3 inches low at 200 yards, and about 26 inches low at 300. And for those ranges, you'd have 1,119 FPE, 756 FPE, and 519 FPE respectively.
That means that this is capable all the way out to 300 yards, if you know what you're doing insofar as a fighting rifle or hunting rifle goes. 357 mag shoots the flattest of the big 3, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 45 Colt+P. And the ammo weighs about what 5.56 does, but again, you have access to 30-30 power. AND it can go in your sidearm, your pocket gun, AND your ZAP carry.
"Now what about price?" You may ask. Sure. Online, your base price for 38Spl/357 Magnum is a touch less than 40CPR, actually can be had for 36 CPR with free shipping, which is actually in the neighborhood of 5.56. 30-30 costs practically DOUBLE that. For a moderate boost in energy, and half the capacity, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze on 30-30 when modern full power 357 Magnum can compete. Cheapest you can get with free shipping is 85 CPR. Now, your Buffalo Bore ammo does cost more at like 1.32 per round, but good Hornady hunting ammo for 30-30 costs about a dollar per round. So, if you're gonna be shooting constantly, the general cost will be lower. My advice is to keep some BB or Underwood around for heavy duty tasks, but regular old 158 grain JSPs will serve most of your purposes. If you reload, the 92 action can actually handle higher pressure loads, I'm talking a 150 grain projectile at 2310 FPS with 20/296 from a 20" barrel.
And then, onto the topic of 38 Special. From a rifle, most 38 special in the heavier grains will still be subsonic unless it's a +P load. For those not in the know, when it comes to shooting suppressed, there are 3 primary sources of noise. Those are, the supersonic crack if the round is supersonic, the rapid expansion of the gases propelling the projectile, and the cycling of the action. Shooting a low pressure, subsonic round from a manually cycling firearm creates something with noise on par with a BB gun. If you think I'm joking, try it out. For small game or, uh, peaceful sentry removal, this would be just the ticket. There are even heavy hard cast subsonic 357 Magnum loads running a 230 grain hard cast flatnose bullet at about 1,030 FPS from a rifle. These would make for a terribly potent subsonic load, that would penetrate from here until Sunday. Good for pretty much anything you'd need to shoot that might be thick boned or big bodied.
So in summary, it can both be quieter, and/or more powerful than 300 BLK with the same engagement range, while having the same ammo carry weight and general cost as 5.56, and also have the capability for 30-30 level ballistics while having double the capacity, AND the round/s can also be all way compatible between pocket, duty size, and rifle-class firearms. You literally would not need to stock any other rounds if you could only have one. 357 Magnum can do everything, and has. From having a 96% one shot stop rate in the hands of American police, to taking game as large as polar bears, and operating in the hands of special forces like GIGN.
I truly believe it is the most versatile round in existence, and every other handgun caliber (and some rifle calibers) spend their existence unable to compete shot for shot. But, they can try.
ferds41@reddit
Even though this is technically well though out it is also a rubbish SHTF setup. Ammo is not scarce but not exactly common, heavy to carry and limited use out at range. Accuracy with both guns in untrained shooters will also be problematic.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
I actually disagree on all accounts. 38 Special and 357 Magnum is readily available in every gun store I've ever walked into, but not as desired as 9mm/5.56.
Matter of fact, when COVID hit, all I could find on the shelves were 40 S&W, 38/357, and 45 Colt. Turns out, everyone and their dog, as well as their mom and their mom's dog, wanted 9mm and 5.56.
Couldn't find it. So that's that point, disproven. Also, being straight wall cartridges, they're VERY easy to reload, so keep your brass.
And heavy to carry? Ha, no. Weighs about as much as 5.56. That's that point dead, too.
And to your final point about accuracy... Spoken like someone who's never seriously handled EITHER. A levergun is stupid easy to be accurate with, even with ZERO training. Matter of fact, I took my cousin shooting a couple months back, and he was making cloverleafs at 20 yards with a levergun, and he'd never touched one in his life.
On the topic of the revolver, I had him shoot my 686+, but I taught him how to run the trigger properly, and had him do a few dry fire reps first. We put some 38 Special in there, and BOOM, guess what? He was making cloverleafs at 7 yards.
I'm sorry, but my life experiences tell me that none of what you said is true.
ferds41@reddit
The fact that you couldn't find it is not point disproven quite the opposite it is point proven, you could find it because it's not all that popular.
As for the accuracy claims, great for those 2, I am talking about the cross section of the entire population here not two anecdotal cases.
SHTF preparedness is all about redundancy, you would struggle to make a case that once your personal cashe of ammo has run out this will be easy to find. Yes we get .357 floats your boat, I enjoy the caliber as well but don't think of it as a good prepping gun. Ease of reloading also only counts if your equipment is setup.
Terminal_Lancelot@reddit
And what, in SHTF, you're gonna walk over to your neighbor's house and ask for a cup of sugar and a box of 9 mil? Yeah, right. And to think that you're gonna scavenge it off of people or from stores is laughable; that's a larp at best when everyone else has the exact same idea.
Maybe I should've specified; he has next to ZERO firearms familiarity, and this performance was literally achieved within a couple hours. Hell, my wife could pick up a levergun and use it well enough, and easily enough.
If a complete novice can do that with just a couple hours work, I'm sure the Glock fanboys can manage.
Oh, aye, it's about redundancy, and nothing is more redundant than only needing to stock two types of ammo for everything in 38 Special, and 357 Magnum. And run out? Run out? Of a thousand rounds or more? Of an easily reloadable round? Be honest with yourself, you're not gonna be getting into firefights every day, hell, maybe ever. Turns out people don't like being shot, and tend to avoid it. And with no logistical or medical elements, full battle rattle with rifle and sidearm is basically a joke. The trouble with 5.56 and 9mm is that they're specialists that specialize in anti-people use cases. And the trouble with specialists in nature is that they rarely do well; the generalists excell because they can adapt. 99% of SHTF is not gonna be as sexy as you fantasize, it'll be general purpose gun work, which mostly includes taking whatever game you can get, as efficiently as you can get it (means no wastefully mag dumping 5.56 at an elk, you need every round to count, it's not gentle enough for squirrels, and it's substandard for even whitetail.) 5.56 will work fine for coyotes though, but so too does the 357, and you get much more flexibility.
The 357 Magnum and 38 Special combo can, has, and will kill anything from ground squirrels to polar bears. In a sidearm, it's a powerful but controllable option. In a rifle, it can hit as hard as 30-30, and has an effective range of 300 yards or more, depending on shooter and ammo, while being very soft recoiling.
Also, bro? Reloading equipment set up? A Lee Classic handloader can be had cheap, as can a medium can of W296 or H110. 36 caliber projectiles are cheap and plentiful. Matter of fact, just down the road from me, I can buy a 1,000 count box of 158 grain cast LSWCs for like $80.
That is to say, for less than $250 I can have the means to load 1,000 rounds if I bought everything new right now, and I could tailor each round to whatever task. If I already had the loader, powder, and primers, just buying a couple boxes of that for the apocalypse would keep me well fed until I died of old age!
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
That would be good to read i was thinking of a revolver
agm115@reddit
I frequent this sub occasionally to say this: If you’re looking for advice on firearms, ask in a firearm specific subreddit - r/guns, r/ar15, etc. There are lots of experts here on various preps, but there’s also a lot of HORRIBLE and OUTDATED firearms advice from well-meaning individuals who simply don’t know what they’re talking about, and the noise makes it hard to get a good answer.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
"But don't you see, everyone is going to get along and sing kumbaya together and share everything, therefore all we need is a pellet gun to get a squirrel out of the garden?"
That's a summary of a good portion of the thinking re: firearms/defense/potential of violence in a bad situation by a lot of folks here...
agm115@reddit
I’m less concerned with that and more the attitude that even in a situation where defense is required, “a good ‘ol’ pump 12 gauge and a .22 is all you need”.
Hunting with a a shotgun (except for birds and very close range) is harder than with a rifle, and if pickings are scarce I’d rather have semi-auto. The reason most AR-15 rifles are banned from hunting season isn’t to make things easier for the hunters…
Your bead sight pump action is going to be severely outgunned vs even a basic iron sight AR-15. And even the hunting bolt action you think you can do sniper things with only has an advantage IF you can engage before the 30-rnd mag gets to their own effective range.
I have zero problems with people advocating for food and water stockpiles as their priority, or spending their money on comms and power generation. My issue is when people say “you need guns!” but then pretend like the past 30 yrs of weapons development and gun culture haven’t happened.
ZealousidealWin1995@reddit
I’m sorry, sir, but that makes little sense.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
A lot of it is the "YDKWYDK" thing in effect also.
NWYthesearelocalboys@reddit
Combine it with the need to double down to reinforce bad choices. Leads to a lot of "bold" decisions on the topic.
the_area_intel@reddit
💯
smurrayVT@reddit
I've got a Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm that uses Glock magazines. I also have a Glock 19. I am assuming I can use the carbine for small game and defense. Not sure how great the carbine would be at hunting, but being a longbarrel rifle, much better than a handgun. The carbine will even take the very large capacity Glock magazines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_PC_carbine
Since the PC-9 has a 16-inch (410 mm) barrel, it provides more muzzle energy with the same ammunition used by pistols which often only have 4-inch (100 mm) barrels thus better stopping power, accuracy and effective range than pistols.
Anyone's thoughts on this?
ferds41@reddit
PCC is my first choice SHTF gun for absolute versatility.
NWYthesearelocalboys@reddit
Why? Pistol rounds are notoriously far less effective at one shot stops and on medium and large game at any distance.
I would only recommend them to small framed & recoil sensitive individuals. The only real up side is ammo cost.
Sacrificing both arms and range for pistol ballistics doesn't make much sense.
ferds41@reddit
My first case use for a pcc probably won't be hunting much rather pdw/urban combat. Secondly yes I agree but in SHTF scenarios (not the larping and fantasy role-playing most do) you will not be making long range hunting shots on game. The most likely scenario you should be trapping for meat not hunting for it. If you were to hunt you should much rather you will lay and wait very patiently for a close range guaranteed kill. Versatility of having to carry only one cartridge for two weapon platforms far outweigh the downside.
NWYthesearelocalboys@reddit
I'm guessing you live east of the Mississippi. Out west it's common to take big game at 400 yards or more.
A lot of hunting is done gassing substantial distances then getting within 500 yards. The areas where close shots are capable the deer go nocturnal and hang out where they know they won't get shot. Like next to a garden bed 20 feet from someone's front door. Those areas are going to be saturated with scared, hungry and armed apex predators.
Same applies for defense, in many areas you can see for miles.
A PCC would be a serious handicap where I live and argue it still is everywhere when comparing even intermediate rifle cartridges out of a carbine length barrel. It's not even close the difference in energy delivered, the ability to penetrate concealment and barriers, the likelihood that if you have to defend yourself it will be against a superior platform. The list goes on.
ferds41@reddit
Very far east of the Mississipi, an ocean and continent away. Not a single gun is ever the perfect choice for every scenario, this is specifically why I choose the best "jack of all trades" my primary reason for picking the pcc is as a pdw and urban combat tool. I don't see firearms as primary hunting tools in SHTF scenarios, I would much rather use traps and snares they make much more sense in a SHTF situation.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Kept seeing those sold for cheap, but never paid them too much mind
Own-Locksmith7607@reddit
I have one with the magpul backpacker stock. It's great although on the heavier side. It's a great option especially paired with a glock as they can share the same mags.
Another great option would be the Smith and Wesson FPC (which breaks down by folding.. same idea as the ruger) and shares mags with the Smith and Wesson M&P pistols.
Own-Swan2646@reddit
Check out extar ep9, I have one, like it, uses Glock mags. Just a nother path to think on.
smurrayVT@reddit
$699 new last year is what I paid.
CCWaterBug@reddit
Have the same pcc, I love it, haven't shot it past 50 yards, but up to there lts really solid, no complaints and so easy to shoot (although a bit heavy)
Proper-Writing@reddit
Great combo, they use the same ammo and mags. 9mm is plenty for defense and easy to stock up, and the carbine will take medium game smaller than hogs.
LasherDeviance@reddit
The one thing that I haven't seen anyone here suggest is a plate carrier and some level 3A or 4 plates. Do your training while wearing the additional weight.
Jumpy_Storage_Guy@reddit
You need 3 firearms. Shotgun, Pistol, and Rifle. The first two are best for home and personal defense and the third for hunting. .223 isn't the best for larger game but that is usually a personal preference thing.
lxccvr@reddit
Has investigado armas PCP? En donde vivo las armas de fuego son un tramite muy tedioso y las armas PCP se ven prometedoras, silenciosas, facilidad de comprar proyectiles, deben haber otros aspectos que no estoy evaluando pero realmente se ven interesantes
Consistent-Slice-893@reddit
Even the gas piston guns are pretty good- Ended quite a few chicken thieves with them. A Gamo Whisper 22 and Diablo pellets work well on small game.
gotteeman99@reddit
I think whatever you do end up buying look for quality instructors to teach you to run your weapon properly. Not just talking about safety but clearing malfunctions ( they still happen with a pump shotgun), reloading quickly and moving while firing.
My recommendation would be a maverick 88 security and feild combo so you get both barrel length and you don’t have to jump through hoops with NJs pistol laws.
Consistent-Slice-893@reddit
Just take the pistol grip that comes with it and toss it. Not really useful
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I know i plan to train a lot once I get a firearm.
Redds_Ryder@reddit
I'm in a very similar situation! I too live in the suburbs in NJ and have been working on different aspects of my family's prep. A firearm is on my immediate list as well and I've decided that I'm going to get a handgun and rifle in the same caliber, to make stocking ammo easier! I am leaning toward 45 or 357 to accomplish this, but this, but I'm sure you could find something in 9mm as well!
As others have mentioned here, I also plan to pick up a 22lr rifle for small game hunting if needed.
DeFiClark@reddit
Prioritize risks. Do you have 10 or 15lb fire extinguishers in your garage, kitchen and one on each floor?
In all seriousness as a firearm owner and certified instructor, you are FAR more likely to have a house fire than need a firearm.
I’ve had a house fire, a barn fire and a stove fire over the years and have never needed to use a firearm. I’ve been glad I had them a few times but when I needed Fire extinguishers I learned you need the heaviest ones you can wield: it takes minimum 7 seconds for anything but a contained stove fire, and you get a second per pound. Five pound cans will slow the fire but they will NOT get it out.
Until you have adequate fire extinguishers don’t focus on tail risks. Then buy whatever misbegotten 5.56 or Wylde AR NJ law supports and get a 22 Colt or CMMG conversion unit to go with it.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I have one in my kitchen and a large i think 10 lb one in my garage and small one in my basement
DeFiClark@reddit
10lb is the minimum adequate size, replace any/all that are smaller with 15 lb cans
Usagi_Shinobi@reddit
I'm going to not quite disagree with you on this. You definitely aren't wrong about needing far more extinguisher than you might expect, but I will contend that a cluster of 5 pounders, given proper annual maintenance by licensed professionals, can be more effective than a single larger cylinder. This is because good quality fire extinguishers weigh significantly more than it says on the label, which is only talking about how much of the extinguishing agent is in it. Almost anyone can handle a 5 pounder, but even in my CERT training courses I see smaller, younger, and older people struggle with larger sizes. For this reason, I generally mount sets of four strategically in a two by two configuration, with two redundant sets spaced at ten and twenty feet from the first in larger spaces. Costs more come maintenance time, but better that than someone getting hurt or worse because they couldn't get the 20 lb off the wall bracket.
DeFiClark@reddit
Having fought a fire with multiple five pound cans … no.
I saved the structure by containing the fire until the fire department arrived, but never got it extinguished.
Bigger cans, it would have been out.
You need at least seven seconds to get a fire of any size out, and you get a second per pound. Five pound cans will handle a contained stove fire but do not have enough to extinguish a fire of any size. Switching from can to can gives fire a chance to flare back up.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Big fire extinguisher trying to make me buy their products
ImportantTeaching919@reddit
Also the refillable ones are nice to have around on top of the chemical ones for having by a fire in case embers start flying
Gamer_0627@reddit
Just be sure you are maintaining any fire extinguishers you own. Don't just let them sit in a cabinet for 10 years.
CCWaterBug@reddit
Interesting post, I have 3 5lb and a foam spray.
Perhaps it's time for an upgrade
DeFiClark@reddit
When my barn caught fire I was running back and forth from cars and house with 5lb cans. With a total of five, none lasted long enough to fully extinguish the fire but the fire inspector (who advised getting much bigger cans) told me I’d saved the structure.
shadowlid@reddit
I second this I have fire extinguishers everywhere. 3 in the kitchen, one in my gaming room one in each car, and a big halon one in the pantry, near the breaker box.
Internal_Time7941@reddit
\^\^\^\^ This is a great comment. Occasionally you can pickup multiple fire extinguishers on Amazon for pretty cheap. I have them in all corners of my home.
First_Ask_5447@reddit
you want either a 12 gauge or a 20 gauge, both should take 3 inch mags. i think the 20 in 3 inch is as good or better than a 12 in 2 3/4. if you get a 12, you can get by with a 21 1/2 inch turkey barrel. if you go 20, you would be better off w/ a 24-26 inch barrel. you deffinately want something with a rem/invector style choke, you want a pump, not a semi auto. . as of right now, i'm not impressed with anything on the market. maybe a mossberg 590, but those are fixed chokes [new gun] . i would watch the used rack ,i really like the remington 870 expresses and browning bps. both come in 12 or 20. stay away from remington 870 supermags, those can have extractor issues.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
Get yourself a break action shotgun, single or double barrel. You can get both barrels the same 12 guage, or an over/under with a different caliber in each barrel.
Then, get yourself a few rifled chamber reducers. With those, you can shoot any caliber you can fit down the barrel of a 12 guage, down to 22lr. You can get them in any size from 3 inch up to 16+
Turn one firearm into potentially dozens.
If you want more physical firearms, focus on NATO standard calibers, 5.56/.223, 7.62x51/308, etc.
Usagi_Shinobi@reddit
As someone who grew up in a military family surrounded by firearms of all sorts, I would recommend against a 12 gauge for your use case. They're extremely heavy, and the recoil can dislocate a shoulder or break a collarbone if you're not both experienced and extremely careful, which makes them extremely slow to use. This is coming from a man who's 6'2" and 300 pounds, for reference purposes. If you feel you absolutely must have a shotgun, a 20 gauge that can take 3 inch shells is a much better fit for someone without a ton of shooting experience. Since it's also compatible with 2 ¾" shells, you can practice with them to get used to dealing with a less risky amount of recoil, the gun itself will weigh significantly less, making it easier to handle and use, and high powered three inch slugs are strong enough to reliably put down a deer, or even a full grown black bear if necessary, which at 600 pounds of heavily armed and armored muscle, is the biggest possible threat you could encounter.
I recognize that shotguns are widely touted as highly versatile and handy across a range of applications, but honestly I've used every one of the standard sizes between a big old 8 gauge and a little .410 bore, along with most sizes of pistol and rifle from a little .22 to huge .50 BMG, and frankly, shotguns kinda suck for anything other than hunting fowl. Always heavy for its firepower, extremely poorly balanced because most of the weight is in front of the trigger, making it nose heavy, increasingly dangerous to operate as you go up in power, and doesn't hold shit for ammo even in places without hysteria driven gun laws like Jersey has.
I get that rifles are big bad boogeymen to a lot of people, and especially in the legislature there due to hysterical ignorant prejudice, but they're much better all around firearms for every use case that doesn't require scatter shot, the learning curve is negligible in comparison, and yes, many of them are perfectly legal there, so long as your ammo magazines comply with the 10 round limit and you don't get stupid with it.
Regardless of what firearm(s) you ultimately choose, you can expect to spend a significant amount of time and money on using it regularly, and doing so is absolutely critical. I always recommend that anyone considering becoming a shooter go through a good quality (and state compliant if applicable) training course at least twice, the first time usually being to establish enough basic competency for licensing and not being an inherent danger to yourself and others, the second time to really get best practices locked into your head after you've spent a little while sending around 5-10k rounds downrange and can hit at least the 9 ring every time.
I also recommend getting a hunting license and going hunting on a regular basis. This is because in order to use a firearm effectively when it truly counts, it's not enough to be capable of using it safely and accurately from a technical perspective, you must also be intimately familiar with and able to deal with the consequences of using it. Part of this is because food tends to run away extremely quickly if you don't land your first shot accurately enough (and sometimes even when you do, but you'll be able to actually catch up in that circumstance), but for those that did not grow up with having to hunt, slaughter livestock, etc. as part of their development, it tends to be quite difficult to knowingly and intentionally take a life, even of an animal. Until you can do so without hesitation or remorse, the likelihood of you being the one to walk away from a self defense situation is negligible.
Being a responsible gun owner is arguably the heaviest responsibility an individual can have because the stakes are literal life and death. Being able to come to terms with that kind of responsibility can only be done through direct experience, and must be done carefully in order to make certain that it is contextualized in a way that prevents becoming something other than a responsible gun owner. It's a very fine balancing act, to create the very narrow headspace between being able to use a gun when it's necessary, and not resorting to it unless it unequivocally is necessary.
Sorry to get so long winded on you, but in this day and age especially, the context matters more than ever. Hopefully you found it useful, and hopefully others will as well.
marshinghost@reddit
Just get an AR-15
rab127@reddit
Or an AR10...its 5AR's safer LOL!
Actually a good AR in 308 is handy. More distance and better round for food
Chused@reddit
Since you mentioned SHTF, I'm going to assume the firearms are for that scenario. The rule of thumb for shtf situation is to have these 4-5 guns, A good sidearm, a "battle" rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun, a 22lr blinker rifle and the fifth is a loner range hunting rifle whatever caliber most say go 308.
And that list is in a practical order but of course it's up to you at the end of the day.
After_Pie9064@reddit
My most versatile gun in my collection is my 12ga Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol shotgun. There are two versions: grey and black. Black is their “Law enforcement” model and has a fixed choke. The grey one uses the Beretta mobilchoke system. Get that one. The ability to swap chokes on a shotgun means that you can tweak the pattern tightness for multiple uses. It’s only a 19” barrel but with an extra full choke and a mount for a red dot, I can use it for trap shooting. It can also shoot slugs for deer hunting and can also shoot magnum turkey loads for turkey season. And it’s short enough to dedicate as a home defense gun with buck shot. It’s without a doubt my most useful firearm in a collection of many other useful firearms.
FalseOmens@reddit
A 22 goes a long way
Extra-Snow-2491@reddit
Get a 9mm scoped carbine and a 9mm pistol,
Spiley_spile@reddit
After disasters, the VAST majority of people become more altruistic, not less. 90% of people rescued during disasters are rescued by everyday people, rather than first responders. So if someone comes to your property when there's a disaster, please dont shoot first and ask questions later.
I own two guns myself. But Im also a disaster first responder begging you not to shoot anyone before clearly establishing that your life is in danger.
During disasters, I knock on doors to check on neighbors. And I worry that someday, a trigger-happy prepper fed on a steady diet of hollywood fiction and fesr mondering is going to move in and shoot me in the face thinking Im trying to steal their canned food or some bullshit.
Also, go to the range. Regularly. Part of responsible gun ownership is being well-practiced.
Get deescalation training.
In high adrenaline situations, we're going to use what we practice. If all that is, is shooting someone and not deescalation, we're going to shoot people who dont need to die. And whether you care about that person or not, it's going to cost a lot of money whether they live or die. You can win a self defence case and still lose a civil case. And gun owner insurance is like any other insurance, they are going to try to find a way out of paying and leave you with the bill if they can. So if there is an opportunity to deescalate, it's a worthwhile skill to have.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Notice how this says for doomsday prepping in the flair and not natural disaster
Spiley_spile@reddit
Nuclear war/Global destruction fits the category of disaster, on a global scale.
What this sub still needs a hollywood flair. So we'll know when someone's scenario has been shaped by the movies.Some peoole really dig that and invest in it. And those of us who dont coukd save time and people's frustration with our answers. Im entirely uninvested in Mad Max scenarios.
ChocolateOk7997@reddit
In NJ, hollow point bullets are illegal. I have heard of one guy whose car was searched and when a hollow point handgun bullet was found under his seat, he was arrested and charged with a 5 year offense.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
You can get kinda hollows that have wax filling the hollow part and it counts as a full bullet but still acts as hollow
ferds41@reddit
Can I first say that it irks me that whenever someone asks about firearms they are first lectured about personal finance, fitness, food storage and a host of all other topics they didn't ask advice for. I am going to assume if you wanted a lecture on those you would have asked in another sub, and keep the advice strictly firearm related.
I live in a country where we can legally obtain pretty much any firearm short of fully automatic rifles, but each have to be individually licensed and the process is tedious and cumbersome so much thought goes into getting as much application from each as possible. Purely for SHTF purposes I would prioritise in the following order with my reasoning for each set out.
First Priority:
9mm PCC in 10.5" barrel, with a lpvo. Spend as much on quality as you can afford, avoid paying for brand name alone. Good options Smith & Wesson M&P sport or PSA. Spend as much as you reasonably can on a quality optic, I would recommend something like the Eotech Vudu 1-6x24, great reticle systems and quick target acquisition. Add a wml and suppressor, keep basic service kit and spares with enough cleaning consumables.
My logic on the above, in a SHTF scenario ammo Is near ubiquitous, the caliber is great for a variety of situations including personal defence, urban combat and in a pinch can be used for medium sized game. Ammo is light enough to carry in meaningful amounts. The optic suits the versatility and the suppressor makes the platform more useful in non permissive environments you can easily shoot a 147gr subsonic without someone 50 yards away in another building knowing about it.
Next prioritise reloading equipment, when there is ever a run on ammunition you can still build your own, have enough stockpiled to make about 3000 rounds, I know this is more than you are ever likely to need, but IMHO this is half the purpose of prepping.
Next get a reliable 9mm handgun you already have the ammo and reloading equipment for the pcc, here it's more about personal preference as long as the choice is reliable. What matters more is training to be effective with the choice.
After this I would consider a 12ga pump action shotgun. I don't agree with everyone on the true versatility of shotguns, they shine in some instances and suck in others, yes ammo widely available but is heavy AF so carrying capacity is super limited, as soon as you need to start moving you are very limited in how much you can carry. Also the guns themselves are heavy and cumbersome to carry. Smaller, younger and inexperienced shooters struggle with them.
Yes in the right hands and in certain scenarios they shine, probably the most useful weapon for home defence. Add a wml and it is the best close range tool bar none.
Next I would consider 22lr, the simple fact that you can service one with a coat hanger and leatherman makes them indispensable. Ammo is everywhere and available in everything from super quite subsonic to hollow point hunting/varminting. With enough patience and good shot placement the can take down medium sized game. You can carry a small boatload of ammo, and I challenge anyone to take torso shot with even the lightest subsonic round and keep doing what you were doing, yes it probably won't stop anyone in their tracks but it will certainly make them consider their actions up to that point.
Last two on my list would be .223 AR platform and then a .308 bolt gun, each has their distinct use case scenarios but now we are getting into more specific applications.
I could write essays on each of these and the reasons for my choice but I think the logic tracks and aligns with what almost anyone that has put significant though into this will tell you.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I agree with the advice thing that why I listed some of my preps before hand to cut it down
DerthOFdata@reddit
I have some advice for if and when you eventually buy one...
TRAIN WITH IT
If you don't know what you are doing and can't reliably use it with little to no thought (ie; hitting the safety should be muscle memory) it will be worse than useless.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Ik I plan to
CauseForApplause@reddit
Ruger 10/22 is a must have firearm. Plus there is endless customizations you can do to cater to your specific needs.
Achnback@reddit
Suburban New Jersey? MOVE, NOW from that anti 2A commie state
Top-Plantain6035@reddit
A Ruger 10/22 would be fantastics. Can be used for protection and small game hunting. Plus you can carry a large amount of ammo quite easily. Handguns in NJ will be difficult as they are one of the most strict states for handguns.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Nj is so fucking bad for guns
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Took me loke 2 months to get my license
ku8475@reddit
Crazy for a constitutional right.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
Any modern 9mm that you like the feel of. Glock is fine. Take a class in how to handle it.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I was thinking of that but I want an all round use round that is also common 9mm is very common but not all around use. Plus, I would like higher stopping power since I can't get mags over 10 rounds in nj and even when doomsday hits ill be stuck with the 10 round mags. Though, its very appealing cuz its cheap
Panimu@reddit
All round? List the top five purposes you think you need a gun for. I doubt shotgun will meet any of them
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Topy 5 needs for the gun are hunting larger gsme, smaller game, defense against attackers, ease of use and maintenence, and ammo to be common and cheap. Shotgun literally fits all of those
GornsNotTinny@reddit
A shotgun is a nice thing to have, but the ammo is heavy, the range is short, and the noise calls attention to you. The main idea is to not get in situations where a gun is necessary.
For "hunting" you'll be better off with about a dozen snares of various sizes, and a light rifle.
For defense, you'll want binoculars and thermal, and a scoped rifle that reach out and touch someone. Even a .22 can wound at multiple hundreds of yards. Garand Thumb did an episode on YT about it. IIRC, it was 600 yards that it stopped penetrating. If you put rounds on target at 500 yards, people will generally leave you alone regardless of the caliber. When there's no doctor or trauma unit available, it barely matters what size hole you get in your organs; it's gonna be lethal eventually unless you're extremely lucky.
Regardless of what you finally choose, just know that none of us are Jim Bridger and we ain't gonna get through it alone no matter how much gear we have. Relationships with trustworthy people are the #1 defense. Everyone has to sleep sometime, and you better trust the person standing guard when you do.
2Loves2loves@reddit
12g slugs can take down deer and bear at 50 yard. .22 or 9mm for 2nd and third choice.
Own-Locksmith7607@reddit
9mm is perhaps theee defnition of all around. 12gauge is far from all around.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
You need to define your all around use in that case. 10 is enough to stop 2 or 3 attackers realistically in shtf. If you want a black rifle for doomsday check the r/tacticalgear sub and search your state for past discussions.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Ik all around use is not fully possible but what I mean by it is the best gun i can get that can be used for hunting. Stopping attackers. Common round. Easy to fix and maintain
Proper-Writing@reddit
You're describing a 12 gauge shotgun. It's not quite "all around" but it sure is
Broad-Victory6108@reddit
5.56 can protect and hunt because most of the weapons that use this round use it's range and velocity, but they lack portability and concealment.
9mm can be versatile because it has weapons that enable portability and concealment and have some range - PCC's have better LOS stability /3 POC than pistols, yet also has pistols for portability, concealment, +P if you really want more ballistics. You can also carry more than one, a G19 and an extra mag, and a 9mm revolver for backup or P938 for backup. Faster than a reload.
22 is awesome but lack "stopping power", but you can almost anything down with a well-placed shot, short of really big animals and a honey badger if you're a cheetah, lol.
Both calibers have repair parts readily available for most weapons.
Which-Meat-3388@reddit
I like cameras and photography and there is a saying over there. “The best camera is the one you have one you.”
In other words are you going to lug a shotgun with you on every little excursion? 9mm always on the hip is something worth considering.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
If its shtf im lugging around a 20mm if I have to.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
Black rifle in 308
GornsNotTinny@reddit
If you're in suburban NJ, I would say get a pump Mossberg 12 gauge, a Ruger .357 like the GP 100 for good stopping power, a bolt action .22 with a scope, and a lever action .357 to share ammo with the revolver.
The reason I pick these is because none of them have high capacity magazines, they all have good stopping power (.22 excluded), and in the case of the lever action .357 you never have to run dry on ammo, you can reload on the go pretty easily. You also can fire at a pretty high rate.
The added benefit is that the .357 rifle is an adequate deer gun out to 150 yards (and maybe a touch beyond with the right ammo and rifle combo), and you can hunt in places that require straight wall cartridges. Both the pistol and the rifle can also shoot .38 spl if need be, so it adds to your flexibility if bartering, or if ammo runs low.
If you just want a single gun to forage with, look into the Savage model 24. It's a combo break action rifle/shotgun in a variety of calibers.
If had to pick just one gun to do everything though, I'd take a scoped .22wmr. If you're wanting a post SHTF weapon, you have to remember what that's gonna mean; game laws will not be enforced, you won't want to get close enough to people you don't know to use a pistol or shotgun effectively, and you'll want to be able to carry a lot of ammo without it being too heavy.
This means you'll want a light rifle with light ammo that can still kill deer, and won't mess up waterfowl too much when you're sniping them from afar. You won't feel too bad spending a bullet on squirrel or racoon, and you can take deer with it, but you better be a crack shot or a good tracker. It may not be an ethical choice as we see it today, but if it's down to "The deer suffers" or "Little Timmy goes hungry" I can tell you what people are gonna pick. Don't bet on the large quadrupeds lasting long anyway. They'll be hunted out pretty quick.
Additionally, in a world without rule of law, you don't have to be immediately lethal since chances are that once somebody is shot, they won't be able to fix it and will eventually die regardless. Once people realize that, and know you're ready to defend, you'll probably get left alone. It's basically Mutually Assured Destruction.
A pistol is always nice to have next to the bed though; .357 is a proven round, and revolvers are less prone to failure than most autos. If you can't just go down to the gun store and get it fixed, I'd carry a revolver.
NWYthesearelocalboys@reddit
What's it's primary function? Property and home defense or bird and squirrel hunting?
I don't like shotguns for home defense because while they are ballistically very affective and versatile they aren't precise tools.
I'm semi rural but higher than houses around me. I have had to kill predators going after my animals, I am very particular about direction of approach because of the above and using a more precise tool than shotgun shot.
My recommendation is 1. Pistol with an optic and light. 2 rifle with an optic, sling and light. 3. Shotgun.
1 and 2 are interchangeable depending on local laws.
Own-Locksmith7607@reddit
Most people tend to get pump shotguns for self defense as well, and often short stroke the pump in stressful situations.
OP, if you do get a shotgun for self defense, get a semi auto.
GooseGosselin@reddit
After a good pump shotgun, 9mm handgun for personal protection, a scoped AR rifle, and Ruger 10-22 for small game / pest control. IMO
Own-Locksmith7607@reddit
Rather than getting multiple shotguns, I'd consider getting a PCC (Pistol Caliber Carbine). 9mm is very effective, abundant and relatively cheap to stock up on. You may also want to get a semiauto pistol in 9mm (ideally with mag compatibility to your PCC), and also consider getting an AR15 (Your shotgun is useless at range, the PCC is perfect for medium range, and an AR15 extends range dramatically beyond shotguns and Pistol calibers). Most common calibers are .22LR (not very effective for self denfense), 9mm, 12ga, and .223/5.56.. so focus on those calibers.
churchillguitar@reddit
NJ is weird about gun laws. So, you’ll have to see what’s legal in your area. A 12ga is an excellent first choice. Go with a Mossberg 500, or if you want to go cheap get a Maverick 88. You could potentially get a good deal on either used at a pawn shop. Reliable budget pump guns that will likely outlive you. Don’t get a Turkish semi-auto, they are notoriously unreliable.
A reliable 22LR rifle is cheap to shoot to get your reps in, and great for hunting small game like squirrels and rabbits if SHTF. After that, I would get whatever reliable firearms in common calibers you can, so you can fire found ammo in the wasteland. You could get some sleeves for your 12ga that convert it to other calibers, personally I think they are not the greatest solution but they are better than going “ah damn I found this whole box of 9mm I can’t use”.
Realistically, you’ve probably just opened Pandora’s Box for a very expensive hobby. You’ll have an arsenal before you know it. And if you get into reloading, forget about it.
A reliable handgun is nice for concealed personal protection. Many people recommend a Glock police trade-in if you’re on a budget.
flying_wrenches@reddit
New Jersey is a very difficult state for firearms. The standard “Glock 19 and a PSA 556 ar-15” won’t apply.
You’ll have to look off of strictly NJ compliant firearms. I’m sorry man.
That being said. .223, 5.56, .22lr, .308, .380, 9mm, .45 and 7.62 are the most common ammo types you’ll Be able to find.
the_area_intel@reddit
G19 and AR15 both legal and not that difficult to buy in NJ
the_area_intel@reddit
AR15. It is the most versatile firearm by far and is a force leveler. They are easy to learn, highly modifiable and their parts are widely available. Palmetto state armory runs sales on them all the time where you can pick a solid quality firearm for less than $600. Smith and Wesson M&P also runs less than $700 and they’re solid af
GunnCelt@reddit
For my family of three adults, our armory consists of three AR rifles, one .308, three 10/22’s, three .22LR pistols, two .380 pistols, one makarov pistol, eight 9 mm pistols, one 12 gauge pump shotgun, three compound bows, three crossbows, probably 18 recurve and longbows and an air rifle. My wife and I typically go to the range a few hours a week to train with the firearms and I reload. We’ve been negligent in our archery practice, which changes this week since I’ll be finishing up building the target stands today. We are fortunate enough to be able to setup on our property.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I was looking at getting a rifle chambered in .308 but stockpiling it would be a pain. And training would be expensive. I think everything is pointing towards an ar 15 for this but even though its versatile and cheap I fucking hate ar's
2Loves2loves@reddit
mini14 - not as accurate but not a 'black rifle'
GunnCelt@reddit
AR’s are a very versatile firearm. Depending on how much money you’re willing to put into one, they can fit just about any need. For example, .308 with a good optic is great for hunting. .300 blackout with a 11.5” barrel can be suppressed. 6.5 with a 16” barrel is a flat, longer ranged rifle. Our setups are 5.56 with 16” barrels. Two have red/green dot optics and one has a scope that will run solidly up to about 450 yards.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Yeah. I think I have to get an ar for actual functionality and versatility. The only reason I hate em is because of how they look. Im trying to atleaast look cool as hell during the end, lmao.
GunnCelt@reddit
I’ve seen some drippy as hell builds. My AR is rattlecanned and ugly.
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
My style Is different im okay with the retro Vietnam ar's they look cool, but I love guns like the ptr 91, or fn fal. But fal is banned in nj and prolly expensive anyway and ptr 91 just doesnt seem like the right option for shtf. Ill probably get an ar and eventually figure out how to add my own diy drip to it like a wood handguard or something.
KlausVonMaunder@reddit
I'm with you, the HK 91 or FN/FAL all the way. Not inexpensive! I share your lack of love for the AR platform--for no good reason.
Mini-14 may be an option?
myOEburner@reddit
Go to r/guns
Handguns:
There's a reason Glocks are so popular. My personal preference is a CZ75B (16+1 capacity), but you live in a crappy state for guns and you might be magazine limited.
Rifles:
AR15 is pretty much the all around best choice if you can only pick one and want to roll "home defense" into the justification.
A Ruger 10/22 is a perfect prepping gun if you're interested in actually prepping for realistic stuff and not just LARPing.
Routine_Mortgage_499@reddit
This might sound insane, but even in a SHTF situation, laws may likely still be enforced when it comes to guns and hunting. it's up to you to know what calibers you can legally hunt with. the 12 gauge is certainly good for deer, hogs, birds and other small game. I don't think it matters much which handgun you choose as long as you stock up on ammo and are comfortable with it. where I'm at a handgun can be used for hunting if it meets the criteria, but a .22 rifle cannot.
take whatever training your state provides and keep your hunting license up to date.
Financial_Resort6631@reddit
I was drunk with my boys and we instead of calling a taxi from strip club to the bar cut through this farm. The farmer has a 12ga. Yeah the racking of a round is enough to send me into full panic mode. The dust it kicked up made me talk with god.
12ga is a great defensive weapon.
Skaics@reddit
I would go on a pistol you can concealed carry waaaay before getting a 12 gauge, unless your state laws don't allow you to get a handgun
TacTurtle@reddit
Shotgun: de facto standard entry level pump shotgun today is a Mossberg Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500. With 00 buck is extremely effective out to about 70-80 yards (pellets remain lethal out past 120 yards, but the spread is enough that hit chance on a human-sized silhouette is low).
Rifle: couple different options / possibilities here. 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbine (Ruger PC Carbine, Smith and Wesson M&P FPC)... however New Jersey restricts or bans JHPs so you may want to go with a larger caliber 45ACP (Ruger LC Carbine, Stribog SP45A3, HiPoint 4595TS). 5.56 Carbines are very popular but the 10 round limit makes them less tenable.
Lowest cost pair would be a Mossberg Maverick 88 (~$250-275) and a HiPoint 4595TS ($360).
Shotgun - you will want Esstac shotshell cards that attach to the left side via velcro (2-3x @ $14 ea) and a light mount (GG&G pic rail mount part number GGG-2388 with 1" mount and Streamlight Polytac LED for $123), plus a 2 point sling ($10-20).
Proper-Writing@reddit
Gun 1. A 12 gauge shotgun is actually an excellent choice for owning just one gun. Mossberg 500 is great. Good for defense and hunting.
Gun 2. Add on a .22 rifle and you'll still be under $600 total. So cheap and versatile. Good for range use, practice, safe learning, saving money, and shooting small game. Literally perfect for everything besides self defense and hunting anything bigger than rabbit. A Ruger 10/22 is barely $250, so you can get the shotgun and .22 and still be under budget. Or, I love the Henry takedown Survival Rifle for $300ish as something you can toss in a backpack. Ammunition for these is basically free.
You can meet all your needs with these two guns. I repeat, you do not need more than these two. But also guns are super fun and you'll probably end up buying more.
Guns 3-4, classic combo: I strongly suggest a .357 SA/DA revolver around 4", like a S&W Model 19 or Ruger GP100. Most versatile handguns in the world and can handle every use case you can think of. You get ease of use, reliability, ammunition simplicity, and the only tradeoff is lower ammunition capacity. For your 4th gun, get a lever action rifle chambered in .357 for a classic combination that is legal in every state.
Guns 3-4, modern combo: If you like pistols, you can't go wrong with a full size 9mm Glock 19. You get higher capacity, cheaper ammo, and lighter weight, and only trade off simplicity. For a 4th gun find an AR style rifle in .223; you'll need to do a little research to find one that's legal for NJ, but they sure are fun and effective.
You can meet all your needs with these four guns. I repeat, you do not need more than these four. But also guns are super fun and you'll probably end up buying more.
For gun #5, you'll likely want a concealment weapon in the same caliber and style you picked above. For gun #6, just get that 1911 you've had your eye on for years. You don't even have a practical use for it, it just looks nice and makes a big boom. Congratulations on your new hobby of turning money into loud noises. You can meet all your needs with these six guns. I repeat, you do not need more than these six. But also guns are super fun and you'll probably end up buying more. For gun #7...
(I was actually serious about starting with 1-2 and never actually needing more than 4)
Many-Health-1673@reddit
After the 12 gauge, an AR15. 223/5.56 is fairly reasonable right now. If you need to conceal, a 9mm.
Buy cheap and stack deep for the inevitable shortages we seem to go though in times of uncertainty.
Chainsawsas70@reddit
While it's far from cheap, it's absolutely amazing and will do just about every role you can want for a Shotgun "Beretta 1301" short enough to be practical for more confined spaces but long enough for doing Some bird and other game hunting as long as it's within the range for the Ammo you choose. From defense to game hunting it can get the job done and especially in a defense situation you can get Rapid follow ups.
HostSea4267@reddit
Hijacking this convo, how do you store your weapons?
Have kids in the house. Wife doesn’t want firearms. Garage + safe?
Would be slightly worried someone just breaks in and takes the whole safe. Was thinking a 10/22 takedown could fit in a smaller safe.
I understand that a shotgun is a better weapon and have done trap, it’s pretty fun, but storing a shotgun requires a huge safe.
agm115@reddit
Bolt the safe to the floor
theskipper363@reddit
Well, how much do you want to spend? On a shotgun, is the real question.
Do you hunt/interested in shooting sporting clays/ etc
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
I haven't hunted yet but. Want to start once I get my shotgun. My max for my first gun is 600 I want to spend more on my ammo and a 2nd gun once I know what I want
theskipper363@reddit
if youre willing to go used, plenty of 870s/500s etc for that price, hell winchester 1200s are 350$ but not 3in
If you can geek to 1000 or so, berreta a300 or the franchi infinit are excellent fire arms (keep them for life) and semi auto
i would recommend going for a 3in chamber because widens the ammo you can use!
Swimming-Soup5868@reddit (OP)
Thanks ill look into that
theskipper363@reddit
one thing to note, about the win 1200.
I have one, its drilled for a scope, i have a spare barrel that is rifled and can change out in a minute. Very convient for me if i had to carry it around
Torch99999@reddit
I'm a "gun guy", but honestly if I could only own one gun it would be some kind of polymer-framed subcompact striker fired 9mm. Not sexy, but if something happens where you NEED a gun, you probably won't have time to go home to get your gun, so having something easy to carry with you makes it a lot more practical. Glock 43x, Smith&Wesson Shield Plus, and the Sig P365 are all good options and I don't think you could go wrong with any of those three.
I live rural and do keep a 12 gauge by my door, but it's mostly for animals. It's loaded with three rounds of #7 bird shot in the tube (for snakes), two rounds of 00 buck (for abandoned dogs...I've lost a lot of livestock to dogs) and two slugs (for hogs) in the side saddle. It's a jack-of-all-trades homestead gun, though it's mediocre at everything compared to good purpose-specific guns.
Fluffy_Efficiency623@reddit
A short barrel rifle in .223 Wylde. 223 is one of the cheapest and most wildly available rifle calibers, has good accuracy and a tolerable level of kickback, and the Wylde is also designed to properly use 5.56 military rounds (which are essentially .223 but with higher pressure so can't be used in normal .223 barrels) You can also hunt with it so it will have real world use before SHTF and also after that doesn't involve aiming at people.
And maybe a little .22 just to plink away with and practice shooting mechanics because ammo is dirt cheap. You can also buy small take down versions that will fit in a backpack. Not the best for hunting but can still fend off people in a pinch.
Miserable-Biscotti54@reddit
I would suggest a .22 for the suburbs. Won’t blow out your eardrums, still deadly, and easier to use.