"We blocked the blockade": Congress mocks Secretary of War Pete Hegseth over the situation with Iran.
Posted by ArchitectMary@reddit | EndlessWar | View on Reddit | 27 comments
-domi-@reddit
Attacking Iran was idiotic, not foreseeing them shutting down the strait was braindead, but blockading their blockade was the first positive IQ move they made in that whole engagement. I'm pretty sure it's also the first time they listened to their actual military strategists.
This is a bad hill to die on, when there's so many legitimate ones to fight Kegsbreath on.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
Doubling down on a mistake is not good strategy, Congress impeaching and removing the Trump administration would be the correct move.
-domi-@reddit
Oh, sure, i'd love to see Congress do friggin anything at this point. If they wanna start fighting back against the executive encroaching on their duties and privileges, an impeachment would be a great place to start.
That said, it doesn't matter who's in office, attacking Iran opened Pandora's box. At this point, the US can officially surrender defeat, move back, apologize publicly, etc, but that won't change a thing. Iran have now proven that they can choke transit through the strait, and will not stop using that capability until they get the sanctions lifted, their funds unfrozen, and their nuclear (at least their civilian) program okayed by the West.
So, unless you think all of those things are acceptable, whoever comes into office after Donnie will have to also blockade the blockade. This was an unfathomably foolish fight to start, but now that we (or Israel, rather) started it, you can't put things back to the way they were. You can't take this back, any more than you can take back the nuking of Japan.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
The US wouldnt have to apologize, just leave. Iran always had the capacity to block the strait, the shipping lanes go through their territorial water.
The US should have never sanctioned Iran in the first place going back into the early 90s. The freezing of funds by foriegn banks in response to US pressure, was already illegal. The military action against Iran violates international law.
Iran under international law has a right to nuclear technology. Treaties that the US signed and ratified declare that the US has to share nuclear technology with Iran. If a treaty is ratified by the US Congress, it becomes US federal law. Trump is violating US federal law.
If you look at the history the US is the aggressor, causing the conflict. The US took part in a coup of the Iranian government, and then aided Iraq in trying to seize Iranian territory... You then have the US pressuring the IAEA and you see the first sanctions in the 90s that launched all this bullshit.
The US wouldnt have to do much of fucking anything. There would be no blockade to blockade if the next US administration wasnt openly hostile towards Iran. It just requires someone to deescalate the situation.
-domi-@reddit
Yeah, man, if you think that them having their funds unfrozen, sanctions lifted and nuclear development allowed is okay, then obviously the US just has to leave. The point i was trying to make is that you can't undo the effects of this attack. Before it, we could probably keep them limited indefinitely, without them demonstrating control over the strait, but that's no longer possible.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
It has nothing to do with what I think is 'ok.' It has everything to do with what 'is.' Its what the US already agreed to, its international and US federal law.
Do you want the US to conquer 'The Werld?' What the fuck drugs are people on that makes them think that the US has any right to tell a sovereign nation it doesnt have the same rights as any other nation?
Iran is a sovereign nation, they have the right to nuclear technology. Again, the NPT that the US agreed to. That the US made US federal law, mandates that the US share nuclear technology with Iran.
The US would have to break the NPT treaty in order for this not to be true.
By violating these treaties and breaking international law, the US is weakening its influence globally. It is not in our countrys best interest to continue down this path.
You can undo the effects of this attack, the US just needs to vote out or recall this administration and replace it with anything sane.
Iran was always going to retain nuclear technology, the only thing that keeps states safe from interference from Western powers is the development of nuclear technology. The more pressure the US applies to Iran or any state, the more demand there is to develop nuclear technology by nonnuclear states.
If you wanted to reduce nuclear proliferation and stop a nuclear weapons program in Iran or anywhere else. You would impeach the fuck out of administrations like Trumps. Gut Republican leadership in the US Congress. And sweep through the Democratic party jettisoning neo-liberals by the handful. The policy is rooted in failure.
-domi-@reddit
You're talking about how politicians say the world works, I'm talking about how the world obviously works in real life. I guess the inconsistencies are to be expected.
Have a good one.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
You have that backwards, you are talking about how politicians say the world works. I am referencing reality.
You can parrot bullshit all day. It doesnt matter. In the end, people with wealth will determine the outcome based on their own fiscal interests.
-domi-@reddit
Wow, great reddiquette there. Basically saying "no u" with extra words. Very well played. You're talking about what "the US already agreed to" which is what politicians are saying. I'm saying what's actually going on, which is this showdown displaying beyond any shadow of doubt that the strait can be closed by Iran at minimal outlay. Have fun wording around how that works the other way around.
I said good day, sir.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
Its not what politicians are saying, its established law. Its federal law. The current administration is breaking US federal law. Not just international law, but again... US federal law. It has fuck all to do with what anyone is saying.
What is going on? The US is losing influence globally at a rapid pace, American citizens are getting poorer as our economy eats shit to facilitate the enrichment of a corporate oligarch that controls our political system. The US will in the near future be unable to exert any control over the activities of other states as the country is engulfed in an economic collapse. With Iran continuing to develop nuclear technology and whatever else.
Iran always had the capacity to close the strait, they didnt do it because there wasnt a maliciously incompetent faction in control of the United States bent on setting the world on fire. It wasnt in their benefit to do so, so they didnt. I dont understand how you dont understand this.
It seems like you have an agenda to push, rather than anything to discuss.
-domi-@reddit
Nobody cares about international law, power is power. Who's enforcing that international law? We've been doing internationally illegal stuff for the better part of 3 decades, and have seen zero actual consequences from it. Our best pal Bibi is a wanted criminal, according to ICC/ICJ, and multiple allies of ours have sworn to detain him if given the chance, but when he says "Jump on Iran," all we do is ask "How high?"
The US will be unable to project power, yes, but that's because we've been incredibly irresponsible with how we've been exercising our power, and we've spent the last 10-15 years alienating and backstabbing our most loyal allies, in order to carry favor with Israel and Saudi Arabia, both of whom will (and have been) act against our interests at the drop of a hat. The rules are made up, and the only thing that matters is how you play your cards. We've been playing ours irresponsibly. Iran outplayed us by doing the most obvious thing that our own military strategists have been warning about for a while now.
That whole agenda thing you're talking about sounds more like you projecting than anything.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
Everyone cares about international law. The breakdown of international law will lead to increased global conflicts, disruption of trade, global economic crisis.
American exceptionalism is pretty much a death sentence for American global influence.
The international community allowing countries to violate international law without repercussion is causing our current economic issues. You look at China, Russia, and the US and these countries are sending the world to the brink of disaster.
Literally all the US has to do, is stop fucking shit up and things get better.
This isnt a complicated issue to unravel and find a solution for.
-domi-@reddit
OK, buddy, since so many people care so much about international law, i'm sure Iran's assets will be getting unfrozen any minute now, their nuclear program will be up and running, and the sanctions on them are getting lifted right away.
Also, i'm sure we'll arrest Bibi the next time he's in DC, instead of having the entire congress give him a minute-long standing ovation.
And we'll prosecute all of our guys who were responsible for the illegal invasion of Iraq, which was performed under false pretenses and wasn't reversed when we found out that the WMD threat was a lie, and there was no threat.
I'm done talking to you, you go on and "find a solution" to whatever you like now, i wish you the best of luck in your world where the things that politicians say, like "international laws," and high-minded intentions and stuff all matter. Given the complete lack of overlap between that world, and my world in which the only thing which determines outcomes is power and execution, i expect to never have to speak with you ever again. Honestly, that sounds good to me right now.
Wish you all the best in your future endeavors.
neverendingchalupas@reddit
I think you are confused about what I am saying. Irans assets may or may not be unfrozen, the sanctions may or may not be lifted. But its unlikely Irans nuclear program was ever shut down or ever will be. The US wont have the ability to keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons the longer it applies pressure to the Middle East in this manner.
The US will likely continue to support Israel as it intentionally causes delay at ports and bricks global shipping routes. Fucking over the global economy, and by doing so completely fucking the US economy beyond all recognition.
You are refusing to acknowledge reality. The US doubling down on this conflict puts it in a worse position. Our relationship with countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia increasingly place us at a disadvantage domestically and globally. The only people it benefits are a small minority who seeks to benefit financially off of war profiteering.
My point about international law, is that ignoring and/or violating the law, ends up being extremely detrimental to our interests as a nation. And that the current administration isnt just violating international law, they are violating US federal law.
-domi-@reddit
I'm fine talking to you, quit pinging me. Go accuse someone else of doing what you're doing.
airfloresjp@reddit
Truth nuke
beefz0r@reddit
Oh it was definitely foreseen that would happen. It was also assumed they would somehow dissolve from the first minute
Salazarsims@reddit
Our think tanks and war games predicted this outcome years in advance. Cutting China off from Persian gulf oil is the goal.
nipsen@reddit
And encouraging use of American gas and oil, and increasing the cost of importing goods from China. Etc.
I'm sure someone gravitated towards that as a retconned excuse after it was decided anyway. By suggesting - which is true - that an import/export restriction in the Middle East is going to have an impact on the Chinese economy.
The question is what kind of an impact it is going to have. When what you can hope for is, say, to end up with a slowed down increase in the growth, at the cost of a comedical amount of increased military spending, the actual calculation doesn't seem to make sense. For example. If the idea is to make fuel prices in China increase, so they get annoyed, and you can slow down certain parts of the mass-producing industry - again, doesn't make economical sense. If the idea was to make sure Asia and Oceania starts trading more with Africa and Russia, while making Europe a better American "customer", then again.. you don't really know what you're talking about in terms of how the various parts of the industry works.
Because it doesn't make any sense. The only thing that anyone might get out of this in the US is increased cost of goods, and a still increasing military budget, along with what is inevitably going to end in a military conflict that will - at best - only result in reshaping the global political map completely. The US, as the undisputed global hegemon, would not want that even if China was a rising economical superpower.
So if you were looking at some 4d chess move explanation going on, you end up with what is - and to be entirely frank, this has also been said straight up by State Department people for years and years, from before ww2 to very recently - really the "maintenance mode" of the US as a dominant power: that they want to split up and reduce any possible military superpower to be able to have the power they themselves have.
If you're a normally militarily educated West-Point person, this will be something you are going to gravitate towards, even if your own economy is suffering, because you think that - for example - splitting Germany in two after ww2 was what stopped Soviet from expanding. You're going to believe that sponsoring and causing armed rebellions in Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, and other countries like that, is going to be a good idea, because it will split a military powerhouse in half. The entire war in Ukraine, like all the other colour-revolutions, "hide" the exact same thinking. Greece, Turkey, various states north from here, it's exactly the same.
The conflict in former Yugoslavia was the same, too, many years later. Someone had it in their heads that either some former eastern european state that we don't know anything about is going to "go to the Russians", or else it's "going to go to us". And so starting an armed conflict, and going in with assets to keep this going - even if it costs absurd amounts of money - is going to be worth it in the long run.
Because: you want a crater on the map much more than you want a growing Russia (whatever that is supposed to look like), a stronger Europe (in any form - the USAians see an economical union and they think that it is going to start producing weapons), or a stronger China (they've been talking about self-sufficiency to create stability from foreign incursion and exploitation since hundreds and years before it became the May 4th movement - but an American will hear: we want to grow and conquer the planet), or even a stronger Japan (it has been ok for as long as they've been a military base - but when the most Americanized politicians they have produced in a 100 years start talking about producing weapons for self-defense, like they were before the most xenophobic idiocy took off, then it's time for some seppuku very quickly: the support dries up, and the splitting up of the "Japanese Empire", as one I talked to last year said it, unironically, comes up as a goal).
So when you see these ridiculous wars like this, be fully aware of that it is not to the benefit of anyone but the direct benefactors of military subsidies. And that they're doing this anyway, because enough people in the US administrations - even very soft-spoken and very reasonable people - just fear, like nothing else, that there will be another power in the world that can fuck around with other countries like the US is.
And no amount of misery incurred on Iran, Iraq, Africa, Asia, Europe, can compete with that. Because these people sit and believe, genuinely, that if the US didn't shoot the heads off the hydras like they are, then random powers are going to create religious dictatorships and trade themselves into empires to instate forced burkas and impossible languages on everyone in their "spehere of influence" right away.
I have talked to real people in the US, who should know better, but who genuinely believe that if Norway was not a member of Nato, then we would be speaking Russian.
That's how infinitely shallow they see the world, and how infinitely stupidly they respect military power. They find my knowledge of English as a third language out of five as a tribute from a good vassal, basically. Not as skill in understanding languages and being some kind of representative of yornder, forgotten state-craft. It's proof that America is number 1.
And that's really all that is going on here. A military power with a dysfunctional political leadership, exhausting itself literally because no one else wants another military superpower to destroy the US, either. We want some balance, maybe even revenge. But as long as - ironically - no one wants to take the US's place, the US can keep fucking around with people like they are.
And that's all there is to it.
StableGeniusCovfefe@reddit
"Astounding military success".....yet the quagmire drags on with no end in sight. This regime really thinks were all stupid
Square_Radiant@reddit
Taking a break from posting russian propaganda?
ArchitectMary@reddit (OP)
Your comment reflects a lot of pain and resentment; your trusted sources deceive you every day. Open your mind and find the answers yourself.
EndlessWar-ModTeam@reddit
Attempting to derail discussion by veering the discussion into a different topic to evade and/or discredit another user is a form of trolling.
This can be done by calling them a 'bot', 'shill', troll', 'wumao', 'Ivan', etc.; and/or attempting to discredit sources with accusations of 'state-owned media', 'propaganda', 'fake news', etc, may result in a warning or a ban.
Nonsensical posts, posts using nothing but emojis or hieroglyphics are similarly trying to derail conversation and actual discussion.
Kindly_Log9771@reddit
Except vaccines. Listen to the smarts
Square_Radiant@reddit
Yeah it does, that's what happens when you're Russian-Ukrainian and a deserter in both countries - apparently my crime is that I haven't murdered any of my cousins and then you post your stupid shit here every day, supporting russian and israeli imperialism - fuck do you know about my "sources"
ArchitectMary@reddit (OP)
What a way to defend your neo-Nazi "cousins" who worship Stephan Bandera.
Square_Radiant@reddit
Lol, you've never been to Russia, have you?