Laid off, 17 YOE, am I done?

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Void-kun@reddit

So because nobody else has bothered to ask and OP didn't mention it, what country are you in?

Job market differs massively depending on your country.

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Void-kun@reddit

So most of the advice you've been given is specifically for the US market and does not apply to the UK market that we are in.

We aren't faced with the same lay off culture, the same trends, the same economy etc. we have different labour laws to them for example and recruitment seems to operate differently here.

The people saying LinkedIn is full of bots, in the US market does not surprise me. But in the UK it's not as wide spread. I still have pretty good results just working with recruiters.

In the last 12 months I've interviewed for 6 places and didn't apply for any of them.

In the end I didn't want to work for any of them but had no issues getting interviews or technical interviews.

For the technical stage it depends on the role, I'm avoiding most companies that expect me to write Greenfield code from scratch outside of an IDE whilst being observed.

The problem you have though is you're searching for work whilst being unemployed so you can't be as picky.

But trust me work on LinkedIn and connect with recruiters most of them aren't bots despite what these comments are saying. Maybe in the US market but not in the UK market, not yet anyway.

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ninetofivedev@reddit

17 YOE and you don’t have one former boss / colleague who can hook you up?

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Idea-Aggressive@reddit

It's hard to tell what the issue is. Why don't you anonymise your CV and share it here at least we can have a look and provide honest feedback to you?

Or at least describe what you're looking for and what you are offering in the cv/experience...

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ProgrammerOk1400@reddit

Look around. Read the news. There are no new jobs being created, only jobs being lost. So it is very rare to be able to land a job with this market. Stay strong.

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0xjvm@reddit

2 things stick out to me

100+ applications is literally nothing. I probably applied to that per week when I was job searching. When I eventually heard back from one that was actually a great fit I got an interview and had an offer within 2 weeks. It is definitely a numbers game but if you are competent you should find something.
Not prompt injecting, but you should be using AI on your CV to make it sound perfect, simply because everyone else is! But you’re probably a heck of a lot better than the MANY people who are horrible at what they do but have an amazing sounding CV from using AI

TLDR. KEEP GOING.

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Thanosmiss234@reddit

Just like online dating!!! I swipe on most girls!

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0xjvm@reddit

Honestly it’s exactly like online dating lmao

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Do you have any recruiters reaching out to you? I still get probably 3-5 messages a week about various positions. I have a much better success rate when working with recruiters who reached out to me than vice versa.

Also, I have much better success when going through people I know personally. In 17 years, have you picked up any people you can call?

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haxd@reddit (OP)

I have social anxiety so keeping up with my ex colleagues is difficult

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Fickle_Fun_4061@reddit

what usually triggers the need to punch

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haxd@reddit (OP)

Seeing any keyboard

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ReDucTor@reddit

All these comments with 100+ applications seriously wtf? What programming languages and industries are you working with?

14 YOE, all C++ game engine dev, I'm not actively looking but I've had many recruiters reach out, any I have responded to I've nearly always managed to get an interview, even 5yrs ago when I was looking around I had no issues getting an interview.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

C++

Sir, this is why.

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ReDucTor@reddit

What do you normally work with?

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haxd@reddit (OP)

JavaScript, TypeScript, C# and for the past 6 months Rust.

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anothercoffee@reddit

JavaScript, TypeScript, C# and for the past 6 months Rust.

And this is your problem because you're basically competing with the whole world at this point. You need to find a specialisation. You might have commodity skills but perhaps you have expertise in a specific area. Think deeply about what sets you apart and focus on that.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

This is the entire consensus. I’m just getting depressed doing things “the old way”

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So_Rusted@reddit

just make your cv a little more ambiguos, that it "suggests" youve had 17 years coding mcps and other services blah blah. Its just a service but ceos dont know.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

I think this is just going to end badly, even if it gets my foot in the door.

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awjre@reddit

Stop the spray and pray approach to job hunting and go for targeted roles only.

Buy yourself a Claude/GPT subscription. Clone https://github.com/santifer/career-ops Download your LinkedIn profile as a PDF. Provide it with your current CV, the PDF, and your GitHub URL.

Let it do it's magic.

Ask it to recommend updates to your LinkedIn profile.

Only apply for roles that score 4.0+

Do not sell yourself short. Targeted roles you can hit the ground running.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

This is awesome! I will give it a go.

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casualPlayerThink@reddit

Hi,
I can highly advise going to the r/EngineeringResumes and checking their wiki, rewriting your resume, posting it there, and asking for a review.

> ...No interest, ghosted by recruiters I‘ve worked with for years. 100 applications+...

Are you sure they are still recruiters? Most of the ones in my own network aren't in the industry after a few years.

Ghosting is not necessarily because of human behavior, but mostly because of automation. It's rare to find someone who actually reads through resumes and emails these days due to human behavior, but mostly to. Most of the companies use ATS/GPT/Bots/LLM/AI/Younameittools to spin through hundreds, if not thousands, of emails per day. (Personal example: I do not seek workers, yet I get a few applications and business proposals every week. Many "engineers" automated the application process, too. So the meme is real: "Bots write job posts, bots applied to there. Bots refused them. No real human got hired, no human knows about this".

In the past couple of years, it has been standard to have below 5% of replies, as well as below 50% to a simple message, after they received your application. Unfortunately, you have to endure this and have to expect hundreds of applications (3-500+) to have a few interview even.
Those who have positive stories by just sending out a couple of dozen applications, usually ex-FAANG or heavily using connections/network to get hired.

> ...No responses on LinkedIn...

Do not worry. That is a dead, bot-infested place. 99% of its content is garbage, generated by bots. They provide AI to handle all the easy application processes.

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ChubbyVeganTravels@reddit

Agreed. LinkedIn is reasonably good at galvanising your network to help you, if you already have a wide network. In terms of applying to roles directly it's pretty poor.

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shozzlez@reddit

Linkedin a lot of times just redirects to the company’s site to apply. Is that still not likely to be looked at?

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ChubbyVeganTravels@reddit

Those are probably. However lots of other roles on LinkedIn appear to be either "ghost" roles or just you up against 1000 other people.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

Thank you for the helpful information, I will do this

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ChubbyVeganTravels@reddit

Just to add my 2c, it is a tough market and you will need patience and commitment. The one consolation is that you won't have it nearly as bad as entry level engineers.

I will be unemployed after tomorrow. I am also experienced and senior level but will still consider myself very lucky if I find a job within six months - I have budgeted for at least a year of unemployment.

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InterestingBoard67@reddit

uhm, so where would you recommend finding jobs in NA?

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GlobalCurry@reddit

> Are you sure they are still recruiters? Most of the ones in my own network aren't in the industry after a few years.

This is a good point, a lot of the recruiters got laid off way before the tech worker lay offs started.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

Yes, one of them is now the director of a recruitment agency, which is why it threw me getting ghosted by a dude who used to ring me every month

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third-water-bottle@reddit

Jeez, what does your resume say?

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ittrut@reddit

I sparred on my resume with an LLM and it seemed to have pretty good feedback. Like being more assertive and changing perspective to that of the hiring manager etc.

Give it a go and see if whatever it says seems useful to you.

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wobblydramallama@reddit

can we stop using this stupid "sparred" word? makes it feel like you're doing wrestling with your keyboard

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GerkDentley@reddit

Yeah. It involves AI so you have to use the word slop instead. You 'slopped' with the LLM.

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haxd@reddit (OP)

“Will punch keyboards for food”

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Bright_Aside_6827@reddit

Calm and professional, until I need to punch

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OllieOnHisBike@reddit

Gave some advice, frankly response is rude - wonder if there is correlation with your predicament....

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

that checks out, 17 YOE we were in a housing crisis

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Noway721@reddit

Onlyfans

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i_exaggerated@reddit

I wonder what their engineering is like.

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Michaeli_Starky@reddit

Master of copy paste

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haxd@reddit (OP)

If only I had the earning potential

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EnderMB@reddit

Where are you based? Since you say CV I'm guessing the UK?

I'm in Bristol, and the industry post-COVID is a shell of what it was in the 15 years I've been in tech. A LOT of companies either died out or got bought out by larger companies and moved their tech teams to London.

While there are some startups brewing some cool stuff, I regularly wonder what I would do if I lost my job, because the answer nowadays seems to be "well shit, looks like I'm moving near/to London".

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Isogash@reddit

Sad to hear, currently London-based but I was rather hoping it would be possible to find something in Bristol.

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forgot_previous_acc@reddit

At least mention your skill set or tech stack.

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OllieOnHisBike@reddit

I would suggest re-write your CV / Resume from firstly a business perspective , then responibilty / managing perspective and then finally technical, where the technical is almost a list of skills used for the other two.

If you have Subject matter experience in tech outside of this months flavour of JS frameworks, this needs be accentuated with how it helps solve business problems.

If you're a dev who can talk to the business on their level, this needs to upfront & centre.

All companies are now looking at value-add of a future employee from a business perspective, tech skills are still very important but in a slowing economy they will hedge there bets of people who understand the business more...

FYI - 25 YOE, mainly focused on desktop apps, but will do anything (and have done web stacks) finding my business knowledge leads to conversations even when the full stack includes React style front ends...

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haxd@reddit (OP)

I think you're right, the general consensus is my CV stinks and I should update it. Not sure why you're getting hostile in the other comments on this post? I didn't reply to you / wasn't rude to you?

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OllieOnHisBike@reddit

Okay, sorry - all good

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OllieOnHisBike@reddit

So all you criticising my comment, why?

I guess you're all 'average at best' web-devs...

this industry has 10 years and then it's gone, apart from niche SME skills you'll all be asking 'Do you want fries with that Sir....'

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

update your linkedin profile and put the #opentowork tag on your profile pic

the update will prob have u showing in more recruiters' searches

check you LinkedIn inbox often cause there could be recruiters with contract roles, a lot come from Dice/Indeed as well.

18 YOE here, got my current contract gig via recruiter

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goldiebear99@reddit

how long did it take you to find your contract gig? my idea was to take this approach to transition from permanent roles to contracting and I’m trying to figure how much runway I would need after leaving my job

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

this one took about 4 months to find but i got this job in Aug last yr. I was only doing out a few applications per week, getting some interviews, but it started to dry out. This recruiter was just something i saw in my inbox

That was then, and it was pretty tough. I don't really know what its like right now.

My contracting role was orig 6 months + possibility for ext and i'm just rolling with the extensions for now

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

and yeah 100+ and only 1 to show for it, i'd adjust the resume a bit.

if historically you've just been adding on, doesn't hurt to do a full fresh rewrite. According to those numbers, you got nothing to lose

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BOT_Pain@reddit

You are done if you think so.

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Till_I_Collapse_@reddit

Those are rookie numbers in this market. Honestly, 1:100 is a standard hit rate right now. You gotta pump those numbers up and let the law of large numbers kick in.

But seriously, get that resume reviewed. If an ATS bot can't parse it, your 17 YOE won't save you. Keyword optimization is key.

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Willing_Stage_6047@reddit

had a similar dry spell after 15 years, networking was what eventually worked for me

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xDannyS_@reddit

The same skills that are relevant in most jobs are now relevant, and even highly sought after, in software development too: - Social skills - Emotional skills - Being cooperative - Passion, confidence, initiative

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So_Rusted@reddit

we are cooked

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marquoth_@reddit

are now relevant

I think they always have been. At least they've done a lot of heavy lifting in my career.

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xDannyS_@reddit

For sure, but in this market you can say they are a necessity. People in this field tend to underestimate the important of these things because so many people got by not having them. I always say, I'll take a team of mid devs wirh good social and emotional skills than a team of great devs lacking those skills.

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HowIsEmuWarriorTaken@reddit

I hate this industry as much I loved it when I joined it 10 years ago.

Do you have any other hobbies? Maybe pursue them until you either develop interest back in software development or the market gets better. Failure in interviewing process would actually make you more frustrated

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

he's failed only 1 technical interview

no point in not trying. best to gauge if you are improving over a number of interviews

failure is frustrating, that goes without saying. If the market does get better, ideally OP gets the bad interviews out of the way

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HowIsEmuWarriorTaken@reddit

I don't think he's in the mental state for that. I know/assumed it because his post starts with "No interest"

You kinda need to develop interest because for most of the companies, the interview process needs a lot of preparation too

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

i read it as "there hasn't been interest because no response"

Not "i'm no longer interested"

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chikamakaleyley@reddit

but yeah given that, both of our points seem valid now, lol cheers

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Minimum-Reward3264@reddit

700 4-6 moths on average

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Extra-Ad5735@reddit

You really need to iterate on your CV text and collect any feedback you have.

By "iterate" make it ATS and LLM friendly; you can ask a model to do that. Try different variants and see what works better.

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Immediate-Quote7376@reddit

Your mistake is that you are working with recruiters, in this market you should be working with your ex-fellow colleague software engineers instead. In the world where companies are spammed with AI-generated CV's you need a vouch by a human to get to the interviews you are looking for.

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kosmos1209@reddit

I share your feelings. I have 25 YOE, still have a job, and I want to move on but can’t. I did turn down couple of offers after finding out more about the company and didn’t want to join them, but it took about 50 applications for those two offers, as where as in the past before 2020, something like 20 applications would end up being 8 offers.

The coding and systems design interviews are harder and evaluation seems a lot tougher too. In the past, one little screw up during coding and less than perfect design was ok too because of time constraints, but now, they both have to be perfect.

The job market truly sucks for every level right now, just a lot of competition for very little jobs.

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ZunoJ@reddit

What is your skillset?

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Potatopika@reddit

Don't think you are done. I think you have to:

Make your cv from scratch with optimized keywords easily parsable for the ATS.

Send many applications

Study and prepare for the interviews

It sucks because now companies have like 5 or 6 interviews and it takes a long time yo go through a loop but if you want to avoid all of this you can always open your own consultancy. I have been thinking about doing that for some time myself but currently I am not in a good position to take risks due to family 😅

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