Turks how similar is Greek Zeibekiko to Turkish Zeybek? In dance and song?
Posted by Starfalloss@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 144 comments
Posted by Starfalloss@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 144 comments
Sad_Prawn2864@reddit
It's the same shit.
CurveAhead69@reddit
I’m about to lay down the law, pay attention:
Zeybek originated in the AEGEAN region. Remnant of Ancient Greek dances.
Zeybeks (or Turkomans , or Thracians, or others - depending on source), adopted and developed and made it their own in the particular forms used today.
The modern Turkish Zeybek (in its many variations) is a symbolic dance of bravery and dignity. A masculine dance. Today’s form is Turkish and while it can be danced by one, it’s a team dance.
Zeibekiko is Greek. Passed through Greek ancient times to modern, heavily influenced by Zeybek due to interactions and proximity.
Zeibekiko, is a distinctly masculine dance (though both men and women can dance it). It’s an improvised connection of symbolic moves to infer masculinity, strength, bravery.
Both gravity and elevation of personal emotion.
When you dance Zeybek you are a hawk. When you dance Zeibekiko you are an eagle.
The Greek dance is far more personal: bending down contemplates a difficult life, an emotional devastation, a tragedy.
Lifting up, raising hands, releases, abandons or supersedes out of sheer will.
There’s a reason Zorbas dances Zeibekiko to symbolize the path of the Superhuman (in its philosophical definition).
As for the young guy dancing in the video, he dances very well.
But he’s young and Zeibekiko requires a grave emotion overflowing the body that usually comes with age.
Similarly, in Spanish Flamenco, no matter how good a young dancer is, it is always the older ladies who penetrate our souls with their intensity.
volcano156@reddit
Ancient greek connection thing is just a super weak claim the greeks made up in the 20th century. In many sources from earlier times, it's stated that it's a dance of turkish origin, performed by turks that emerged in western anatolia in the 16-17th centuries. Greeks just took it and modified it over time, in other words, the origin of zeibekiko is zeybek. This is already evident from its name and from its transition to the greek mainland through the population exchange
BranchNational4959@reddit
Turkish Zeybek requires heavy imaginary lat syndrome.
Nikoschalkis1@reddit
Trying to ask how similar is greek zeibekiko to Turkish zeybek and you post the most performative and fake instance of zeibekiko.
XontrosInstrumentals@reddit
I thought the same exact thing. This is more of my kind of Zeibekiko, I find the more modern and acrobatic choreography very bland in comparison.
AJ_Stangerson@reddit
I was thinking this myself. He's very good, but it doesn't look like anything I remember seeing before.
WonderfulZombie1557@reddit
Exactly
This was like kung fu not the real thing
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
This is how people typically dance it these days though.
Nikoschalkis1@reddit
They jump around and spin like a ballet dancer? This guy is a professional dancer. Zeibekiko is a very heavy and emotional dance, where you reminisce life's suffering while you make slow moves solo. This is a performative act in the most central square in the country.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Uh yes or they try at least lol you’re right about that in a traditional sense, but of course there are different styles as the dance is entirely improvised.
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
Only resembles i see is knee bending parts. Otherwise its very different and slower at us. But looks funs ngl since i like spinning and goofy acrobatic like things.
XontrosInstrumentals@reddit
It's an improvised dance, so any dancer can dance very differently, either like in the video with lots of acrobatics and stuff, or it can be very slow and heavy. I've always preferred the second one, here is a great example if you're interested
unflairedforever420j@reddit
this is like zeybek on ecstasy
GDGuardianAngel@reddit
u/The0ryGD (They're Turkish)
The0ryGD@reddit
you know my gender, you don't have to say "they"
GDGuardianAngel@reddit
Oh right
The0ryGD@reddit
anyway, yeah, it is kinda different, you don't move around this much in zeybek.
Kitsooos@reddit
Slightly of topic, but what I trully hate is that when people want to showcase a "traditional Greek dance", they ususally show zeibekiko. The ONE AND ONLY dance in this country that is Turkic and not Greek.
It's also very obvious that it's not an originally Greek or at least regional dance, because it looks freaking nothing like the dances of the region. They literally pick the least Greek dance and portrait it as a traditional Greek dance.
And then, as a cherry on the top, when they want to portrait a Turkish dance, sometimes the show "horon" (aka. pirrihios). The oldest recorded Greek dance, that is at least 3000 years old. It's mentioned in the freaking Iliad for God's sake !! Achilles danced it in Patroclus' funeral. (They were totally roomates btw.)
This shit always grinds my gears so much. Get your propaganda straight people.
TurkOmbre@reddit
Horon means dance in Greek. The horon we know today comes from eastern Pontus, a region that wasn't Hellenic 3,000 years ago. The horon we know today doesn't descend from ancient Greek dances; it's more closely related to Caucasian dances. The Pontic people, being Caucasian but Hellenized, called their dance horon. The horon is more Georgian/Persian/Anatolien than Greek.
I really get the impression that mainland Greece is a cultural void; everything comes from elsewhere: the Balkans, Crete, other islands, Anatolia, the Caucasus, Persia. Ultimately, what is truly local to mainland Greece?
Kitsooos@reddit
Pirrihios is a doric dance that originated within the borders of what is today Greece. Probably Crete. We are not sure. Infamously famous amongst ancient Spartans, but it quickly became very popular all throughout the Greek world. It reached Pontus through the initial Greek settlers around 3000 years ago and evolved throughout the centuries similarily to how it did everywhere else.
It was lost to most Greeks during Ottoman rule, but it survived in Pontus (probably do to geographical isolation) and to a lesser extent Crete.
It was originally a war dance, danced in full battle armor, which is why it's so "jumpy". In time, more casual/tame forms were created, sometimes reffered to as "pirrihiada". The versions that survive today, are closer to pirrihiada, but still reffered to as pirrihios in everyday Greek.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhichios
The rest of your comment is poor rage-bait, so I won't even bother.
Young_Owl99@reddit
It is like Spanish Flamenco and Turkish Zeybek combined. Turkish Zeybek have similar moves but much slower
saddinosour@reddit
When I’m drunk 3 whiskey’s in it is much slower indeed
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Proof Greece is Western European /s
More_Ad_5142@reddit
🏛️👱♂️vs 🛖👨🏿🦳 /s
No0bTheTooB@reddit
🛖👨🏿🦳 vs 🛖👨🏿🦳
Asleep_Company4166@reddit
Naah. Since Greece's east Balkan supremancy supress even its debt. It makes Spain Balkan alongside Portugal!
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
KARABOGA
WonderfulZombie1557@reddit
Greek is slower to, this is an abomination of the original, and the song is terrible to, and way out of the real thing.
yalnzaylak@reddit
Zeybek but it looks gay? How.
Bro got the moves though really fun to watch 🧿
yalnzaylak@reddit
Example for comparison, there are plenty of different styles of Zeybek. This one is Tavas.
Beneficial_Pea_3981@reddit
Zeibekiko also has plenty of styles and they even mostly freestyle it, don't worry this one looks kinda gay to us too lol
Beneficial_Pea_3981@reddit
Zeibekiko does not really fit into one mold. While this can be one incorporation, it can be much more grounded and slower. As a greek I really saw the dance in old cinema and it would be used for the character to have an emotionally heavy/masculine dance to symbolise suffering/resilience. This is one sad example of the dance I'll source: https://youtu.be/gblHuXLqPMA?is=56wcniDZYiDPvSES
The name translates as Zeibekiko of death , and the dances can even be more slow paced
ckurtis@reddit
He dropped his contact lens, and he’s mad at his shoes for stepping on it.
FunLocation3218@reddit
this looks like lgbtq+ zeybek
Fatalaros@reddit
Is this how Atheneans think Zeibekiko is danced? It's obviously much slower and heavier.
Substratas@reddit
Lmao that’s not the point of this post 🤣
He cherrypicked the version that looks least similar to Turkish Zeybek and posted it here under the pretense of a genuine question being asked to the Turks.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
This is obviously the new dance Geibekiko
Substratas@reddit
babyliss1903@reddit
Not even close.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Yeah I thought so other than the name I don’t think they have anything in common.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Some of the clothes are similar.
Turkish Zeybeks usually have loose, light garments in red, blue or yellow. Rarely green. İts resembling clothings that central asian Turks used to wear in the steppes, very colorful and patchy.
İ've seen some greek zeybek clothings that resemble the turkish blue Zeybek cloths.
İn Turkish Zeybek refers to both the dance and the nomadic folk heroes of anatolia synonymically.
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
The vests worn by greek honour guard soldiers resebmle the ones worn by Zeybeks
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Not all Turkish zeybeks wore vests İ believe, but vests were still widespread and they originally were meant to be worn by women in Turkish society.
They only became popular for men because it was a very light piece of clothing and it became fashionable as more and more nomads were forced to settle
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
Besides the point, most depictions of Zeybeks and pictures from late ottoman era show them wearing the vest with the small capelets which is very similar to what greek honour guard troops wear. It's just an interesting similarity between the two nations. Not much to be read into there.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Like you said, "late" ottoman era. İ was just giving a little context thats all
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
Some motions in the dance resemble Zeybek. But the song is nothing alike. Turkish Zeybek has a lot of drums and zurna, the dance is slower, there is a video of soldiers dancing Çakal Çokerten. It's a good example of Zeybek in group choreography.
kebab_welder@reddit
That’s some gay ass sh*t nevertheless
Sea_Gap_6569@reddit
Is it originally Turkish or Greek?
🍿
dontneedit000@reddit
Originally, it was more commonly played among Anatolian Turkish/Turkmen communities of the Aegean region, and it later spread into Greece through the populations that migrated from Anatolia. Of course, cultural exchange was never one-sided — we also have traditions such as Horon, whose name and part of its heritage are linked to the Greek/Pontic culture of the Black Sea.
BouRock@reddit
It is like a gay version of Zeybek. Like any Greek copycat of Turkish culture
muformoon@reddit
https://youtu.be/TaZWbrqUTTY?si=xKOlRDUydYTCw6lF
This is the Turkish version. The movements are similar, but the Turkish version is slower and the music is completely different. I don’t know about the Greeks, but for the Turks, this is a war dance.
atzitzi@reddit
Completely different. It is incredible how a word travels and means sth different to another nation.
In zeibekiko first rule is that you dance alone. If someone is starting dancing then the others will sit down.
There was a famous crime once is Greece because of this. A man ordered the orchestra to play a a song for him but another man got up to dance and there was a blood shed. There were movies and songs about this incident.
Most famous zeibekiko is this
Gazdanadam@reddit
Zeybek is also meant to be danced alone by an "Efe", but due to the dance being so mainstream in Turkey, due to the Zeybeks' association with the War of Independence, it has lost a lot of its associated culture, and has turned into a choreographed abomination.
Infact, the story behind "Kerimoğlu Zeybeği" is that Kerimoğlu danced Zeybek in a wedding without the permission of the elders. and was killed in the ensuing feud.
muformoon@reddit
I absolutely loved this, even more than Op’s video! Solo performances are important in our tradition too, but we don’t have such strict rules as you do. Dancing together and accompanying one another is also encouraged. There are also Zeybek dances for two, as well as those performed in groups.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Looks middle eastern ngl
Maximum-Doctor2564@reddit
Wait. You guys "invented" also the zeybek by putting a iko behind it? nice.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Uh yeah we invented the Greek version which is totally different to the Turkish one lol the Greek one was invented by drunks which is haram for Turks :)
Gazdanadam@reddit
You joke, but we have a zeybek that's known locally as the "Drunkards Zeybek"
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
Eh, who thumps the book that hard. We still drink.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Yeah in Greece lol
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
No i make my own. #stonks
atzitzi@reddit
Turkish was the official language Ottoman empire. Greeks used it too and modified it. So yes we probably did invented and put a suffix. You removed it?
assprobably@reddit
There are other civilizations than greeks and turks that we can borrow words and food etc.
https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/zeybek
PS: Source is one of the best etymologists in turkey and he is armenian (sevan nisanyan) lol.
atzitzi@reddit
The issue is not the word zeybek or baklava or yogurt. The issue is comments like yours under every greek thing with Turkish name. I mean, it is like I read a Turkish political article that mentions the word democraci and I rush to comment that hey you changed the suffix but the word is greek.
assprobably@reddit
Well I am saying same things to Turks, not just Greeks, and if you look at that perspective entire scientific and political jargon is in either greek or latin origin 😃
OhWellImRightAgain@reddit
Hey there are 4 Greek words in your English text right here! Find me an English person to argue with him about it and brag!
And since you talked about -ikos, the english words using the suffix
-ic (scientific) got it from -ikos actually
assprobably@reddit
I have no problem using Greek words, it is a quite good and old language, please read again and try to understand again..
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
I put "Iko" behind my name. The greek army planted a greek flag on my head. I am greek now.
eylch@reddit
song is totally different but dance somehow has resemblence. tho zeybek is slower. türk arkadaşlar için şarkının son kısmı bana aynalı çarşı türküsünü anımsattı başka benzeten var mı?
Gazdanadam@reddit
Biraz benziyor
Self-Bitter@reddit
and the rhythm... although the way you clap your hands is similar, it is done much slower in Zeybek
Brosterz@reddit
Yoereki to ebiesi
Gazdanadam@reddit
There are dozens of variants of Zeybek. Zeibekiko could maybe be inspired by a specific version which i'm not aware of, but generally Zeybek is a lot slower with different figures. Though the way he sweeps the ground and jumps does remind me of Tavas Zeybek a bit.
berikiyan@reddit
On Zeybek we don't turn like a ballet piece. There are turns but much slower.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
How boring! :)
Sea_Gap_6569@reddit
There’s a joke about zeybek and horon in a traditional dance competition
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
This guy is doing it very fast. It's supposed to be slower actually. And it does look kinda like a ballet piece, whereas it shouldn't.
berikiyan@reddit
Ok, then, makes sense.
atzitzi@reddit
Berikiyan I don't know who is we, but zeibekiko is greek dance and that too can be danced in different moods
yalnzaylak@reddit
We as in your komshu bradar
atzitzi@reddit
Okay😄 I had to make sure because many greeks make fun of zeibekiko learned in dance schools with choreography instead of the original heavier sad dance that is
yalnzaylak@reddit
I think they were much more similar in the past komshu we also play zeybek with a heavy tone 😊
Careless_Look_8708@reddit
Greek version seems more feminine, or it may just be the guy who's performing in the video. I don't know.
WonderfulZombie1557@reddit
https://youtu.be/1TadnMNq3rI?si=Va3F-fNLZwtnb7zk
Check the video to see how it is meant to be danced.
In OP's video the young fellow jumps around doing martial arts combined with what he thinks is zeybek dance. He is funny and sad at the same time if you ever loved the music of the passed generations. Also the song in your video is a disgrace of our traditional urban music and heritage. Of course redditors will say: but this is how it is now, but they are wrong, this is the televisionised version of something that is way different in its core, i am sure all balkan brothers here can relate and spot the difference.
I don't care about downvotes
Starkidiamu
CockamouseGoesWee@reddit
I just realized many of our regional dances involve a dab. Noice
kromiti@reddit
That looks so lame ngl
flippost@reddit
My sound is off but I still knew which song is playing
Organic_Refuse4209@reddit
Even stole the Turkish name Zeybek. Atleast come up with another name 😂
The_ScarRzZ@reddit
this is not dance is peacock moves
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Peacock? So you’re saying Greeks having sexual energy and aura thanks!
Organic_Refuse4209@reddit
Even stole the Turkish name Zeybek. Atleast come up with another name 😂
VastSky4124@reddit
Zeybek is much more slower the moves and name is similar but not the same game
No-Specialist-1435@reddit
why are you so intentionally weird with your rythms? I feel like you're trying so hard to not accidentally sound turkish.
Natural_Scholar_1502@reddit
It’s 9/8
No-Specialist-1435@reddit
As a hobby musician, I know what rythm it is, but I was making a joke
Odd-Understanding853@reddit
There are hundreds of different Zeybek songs and dances. Raising your arms in the air doesn't make it similar to Zeybek. The movements in the video are too stylized; it needs to be compared to the original dance.
Fragrant_Seesaw_3402@reddit
But Turks have just belly dance, nothing more...
unknownharris@reddit
Αυτό είναι ζεϊμπέκικο, ναι. Ζεϊμπέκικο της πούτσας.
ksivris@reddit
That has got to be one of the worst demonstrations of zeibekiko I have seen. He can dance but I wouldn't call this zeibekiko.
ErtashianBoi@reddit
Not quite like zeybek. That one is more like gypse dnace. Asıl benzerlikle horonlarda var ama çaktırmayın.
nasosroukounas@reddit
Zeibekiko is a Turkish dance and personally I'm not really fond of it, just like i don't like bouzouki
Early-Show2886@reddit
Zeybek is a traditional Turkish folk dance primarily found in the Aegean region (Ege Bölgesi) and the western Mediterranean. Its main regions include provinces such as Aydın (where it is particularly deeply rooted), İzmir, Muğla, Denizli, Manisa, Balıkesir, and Uşak.
Away_Pineapple_1024@reddit
At least Turks are not gay
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Right…
Alone-Excitement8864@reddit
The foot movements look like Caucasian Dance. Our Zeybek has a history. It is a symbol of vigilantes who defend people from corrupt officials and bandits. Also during Turkish war of independence(I don't like the translation here I will translate it as The National Campaign for Independence), when the government leaves the Anatolia to mercy of foreign countries they resisted and established local militia forces called kuvayi milliye, And became a symbol of resistance against Greek invaders from Greek and Greek bandits who live in the region.
Stuckass-Lover8153@reddit
what's the song name?
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Αθήνα μου (My Athens): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ba3fOvlruU
auddbot@reddit
I got a match with this song:
Athina Mou by Konstantinos Argiros (01:27; matched:
100%)Released on 2020-06-05.
Stuckass-Lover8153@reddit
good bot
auddbot@reddit
Links to the streaming platforms:
Athina Mou by Konstantinos Argiros
I am a bot and this action was performed automatically | GitHub ^(new issue) | Donate ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
kvnstantinos@reddit
And if it is, do you also dance it in from of the parliament?
TensionThink655@reddit
These guys also have a greek version of Zeybek?
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
There’s a Greek version of everything friend the world is GREEK!
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Lmao its not similar at all.
Zeybek is a much more symbolically significant, much slower dance, meant to convey a message.
The greek version just seems like a regular dance you'd see people dance to any kind of music. But both music and movement matters in turkish Zeybek
n_o_r_s_e@reddit
It's quite similar to the old traditional dance form "Halling" from Norway.
Prod_Meteor@reddit
200 years behind.
AEtherLord_@reddit
This is much too fast for traditional Zeybek. However could be an interpretation of the traditional dance mixed with artistic flair of the dancer..?
teaisthebestbeverage@reddit
Greek zeibekiko looks like gay dance compared to Turkish zeybek
azuratios@reddit
That's a compliment bro, gays tend to be good in dancing
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Yeah that’s how we prove it’s Greek!
Young_Owl99@reddit
Oh how kind and respectful of you.
itsdoctorx@reddit
Greeks freestyle dance ζεϊμπέκικο
It seems that Zeybek is more choreographed.
Also, when two or more people dance ζεϊμπέκικο, it’s not the same moves, unlike Zeybek
It’s more rare for more than one person to dance ζεϊμπέκικο, though.
It’s typically a one-person dance, and very informal.
yalnzaylak@reddit
Zeybek has more than one style, it can be played with multiple people or single. Moves changw depending on the number of the person, gender of the player and the rythm of the music. Mostly formal but it could be informal too
BlokZNCR@reddit
Bunu da mı çaldınız? 😃
Turkish one is for CHADs...
Heavy-Jackfruit-283@reddit
Greek one is way more faster and more similar to caucasus dances.
NoRegion1221@reddit
Looks nothing like lezginka
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Proof Greece in in fact part of the Caucasian race /s
Responsible-Plum-199@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Pen-Tool-1987@reddit
Same cultures, different religion.
gorat@reddit
OK but this 'zeibekiko' is more in the modern fashion of 'dance school zeibekiko' - fokas evaggelinos etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W6p556EWsc
\^this is how I remember it from my youth
tolgayucel@reddit
At its core, the Zeybek is a dance of challenge. It is characterized by its heavy, deliberate pace and a dignified, composed stature.
Kerbalgalactic@reddit
I wouldn’t really compare this to Zeybek. Zeybek is much slower and more stately, so it’s not nearly as lively
atzitzi@reddit
Oh, to be young 💙🧿🇬🇷 This song is so good
senolgunes@reddit
I doubt Zeybeks moved like that.
RustCohle_23@reddit
Wait, you can dance that without a glass? Never seen it in Bulgaria.
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
The shot of ouzo on the floor is more of a wedding thing.
Miserable-Ground-379@reddit
Balkan capoeira
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
Based
pelererr@reddit
Not so much. Greek one like acrobatic dance
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
That’s Ancient Greek Olympic god dna kicking in
VisibleReport5008@reddit
this one looks goofy
Starfalloss@reddit (OP)
That’s the fun…
Billarasgr@reddit
Πολύ καλός…