Turks how similar is Greek Zeibekiko to Turkish Zeybek? In dance and song?

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CurveAhead69@reddit

I’m about to lay down the law, pay attention:

Zeybek originated in the AEGEAN region. Remnant of Ancient Greek dances.
Zeybeks (or Turkomans , or Thracians, or others - depending on source), adopted and developed and made it their own in the particular forms used today.
The modern Turkish Zeybek (in its many variations) is a symbolic dance of bravery and dignity. A masculine dance. Today’s form is Turkish and while it can be danced by one, it’s a team dance.

Zeibekiko is Greek. Passed through Greek ancient times to modern, heavily influenced by Zeybek due to interactions and proximity.
Zeibekiko, is a distinctly masculine dance (though both men and women can dance it). It’s an improvised connection of symbolic moves to infer masculinity, strength, bravery.
Both gravity and elevation of personal emotion.

When you dance Zeybek you are a hawk. When you dance Zeibekiko you are an eagle.
The Greek dance is far more personal: bending down contemplates a difficult life, an emotional devastation, a tragedy.
Lifting up, raising hands, releases, abandons or supersedes out of sheer will.

There’s a reason Zorbas dances Zeibekiko to symbolize the path of the Superhuman (in its philosophical definition).

As for the young guy dancing in the video, he dances very well.
But he’s young and Zeibekiko requires a grave emotion overflowing the body that usually comes with age.

Similarly, in Spanish Flamenco, no matter how good a young dancer is, it is always the older ladies who penetrate our souls with their intensity.

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volcano156@reddit

Ancient greek connection thing is just a super weak claim the greeks made up in the 20th century. In many sources from earlier times, it's stated that it's a dance of turkish origin, performed by turks that emerged in western anatolia in the 16-17th centuries. Greeks just took it and modified it over time, in other words, the origin of zeibekiko is zeybek. This is already evident from its name and from its transition to the greek mainland through the population exchange

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BranchNational4959@reddit

Turkish Zeybek requires heavy imaginary lat syndrome.

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Nikoschalkis1@reddit

Trying to ask how similar is greek zeibekiko to Turkish zeybek and you post the most performative and fake instance of zeibekiko.

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XontrosInstrumentals@reddit

I thought the same exact thing. This is more of my kind of Zeibekiko, I find the more modern and acrobatic choreography very bland in comparison.

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AJ_Stangerson@reddit

I was thinking this myself. He's very good, but it doesn't look like anything I remember seeing before.

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WonderfulZombie1557@reddit

Exactly

This was like kung fu not the real thing

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

This is how people typically dance it these days though.

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Nikoschalkis1@reddit

They jump around and spin like a ballet dancer? This guy is a professional dancer. Zeibekiko is a very heavy and emotional dance, where you reminisce life's suffering while you make slow moves solo. This is a performative act in the most central square in the country.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Uh yes or they try at least lol you’re right about that in a traditional sense, but of course there are different styles as the dance is entirely improvised.

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BurgurluGenc031@reddit

Only resembles i see is knee bending parts. Otherwise its very different and slower at us. But looks funs ngl since i like spinning and goofy acrobatic like things.

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XontrosInstrumentals@reddit

It's an improvised dance, so any dancer can dance very differently, either like in the video with lots of acrobatics and stuff, or it can be very slow and heavy. I've always preferred the second one, here is a great example if you're interested

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unflairedforever420j@reddit

this is like zeybek on ecstasy

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GDGuardianAngel@reddit

u/The0ryGD (They're Turkish)

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The0ryGD@reddit

you know my gender, you don't have to say "they"

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GDGuardianAngel@reddit

Oh right

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The0ryGD@reddit

anyway, yeah, it is kinda different, you don't move around this much in zeybek.

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Kitsooos@reddit

Slightly of topic, but what I trully hate is that when people want to showcase a "traditional Greek dance", they ususally show zeibekiko. The ONE AND ONLY dance in this country that is Turkic and not Greek.
It's also very obvious that it's not an originally Greek or at least regional dance, because it looks freaking nothing like the dances of the region. They literally pick the least Greek dance and portrait it as a traditional Greek dance.

And then, as a cherry on the top, when they want to portrait a Turkish dance, sometimes the show "horon" (aka. pirrihios). The oldest recorded Greek dance, that is at least 3000 years old. It's mentioned in the freaking Iliad for God's sake !! Achilles danced it in Patroclus' funeral. (They were totally roomates btw.)

This shit always grinds my gears so much. Get your propaganda straight people.

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TurkOmbre@reddit

Horon means dance in Greek. The horon we know today comes from eastern Pontus, a region that wasn't Hellenic 3,000 years ago. The horon we know today doesn't descend from ancient Greek dances; it's more closely related to Caucasian dances. The Pontic people, being Caucasian but Hellenized, called their dance horon. The horon is more Georgian/Persian/Anatolien than Greek.

I really get the impression that mainland Greece is a cultural void; everything comes from elsewhere: the Balkans, Crete, other islands, Anatolia, the Caucasus, Persia. Ultimately, what is truly local to mainland Greece?

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Kitsooos@reddit

Pirrihios is a doric dance that originated within the borders of what is today Greece. Probably Crete. We are not sure. Infamously famous amongst ancient Spartans, but it quickly became very popular all throughout the Greek world. It reached Pontus through the initial Greek settlers around 3000 years ago and evolved throughout the centuries similarily to how it did everywhere else.
It was lost to most Greeks during Ottoman rule, but it survived in Pontus (probably do to geographical isolation) and to a lesser extent Crete.

It was originally a war dance, danced in full battle armor, which is why it's so "jumpy". In time, more casual/tame forms were created, sometimes reffered to as "pirrihiada". The versions that survive today, are closer to pirrihiada, but still reffered to as pirrihios in everyday Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhichios

The rest of your comment is poor rage-bait, so I won't even bother.

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Young_Owl99@reddit

It is like Spanish Flamenco and Turkish Zeybek combined. Turkish Zeybek have similar moves but much slower

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saddinosour@reddit

When I’m drunk 3 whiskey’s in it is much slower indeed

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Proof Greece is Western European /s

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More_Ad_5142@reddit

🏛️👱‍♂️vs 🛖👨🏿‍🦳 /s

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No0bTheTooB@reddit

🛖👨🏿‍🦳 vs 🛖👨🏿‍🦳

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Asleep_Company4166@reddit

Naah. Since Greece's east Balkan supremancy supress even its debt. It makes Spain Balkan alongside Portugal!

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

KARABOGA

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WonderfulZombie1557@reddit

Greek is slower to, this is an abomination of the original, and the song is terrible to, and way out of the real thing.

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yalnzaylak@reddit

Zeybek but it looks gay? How.

Bro got the moves though really fun to watch 🧿

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yalnzaylak@reddit

Example for comparison, there are plenty of different styles of Zeybek. This one is Tavas.

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Beneficial_Pea_3981@reddit

Zeibekiko also has plenty of styles and they even mostly freestyle it, don't worry this one looks kinda gay to us too lol

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Beneficial_Pea_3981@reddit

Zeibekiko does not really fit into one mold. While this can be one incorporation, it can be much more grounded and slower. As a greek I really saw the dance in old cinema and it would be used for the character to have an emotionally heavy/masculine dance to symbolise suffering/resilience. This is one sad example of the dance I'll source: https://youtu.be/gblHuXLqPMA?is=56wcniDZYiDPvSES

The name translates as Zeibekiko of death , and the dances can even be more slow paced

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ckurtis@reddit

He dropped his contact lens, and he’s mad at his shoes for stepping on it.

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FunLocation3218@reddit

this looks like lgbtq+ zeybek

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Fatalaros@reddit

Is this how Atheneans think Zeibekiko is danced? It's obviously much slower and heavier.

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Substratas@reddit

Is this how Atheneans think Zeibekiko is danced? It's obviously much slower and heavier.

Lmao that’s not the point of this post 🤣

He cherrypicked the version that looks least similar to Turkish Zeybek and posted it here under the pretense of a genuine question being asked to the Turks.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

This is obviously the new dance Geibekiko

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Substratas@reddit

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babyliss1903@reddit

Not even close.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Yeah I thought so other than the name I don’t think they have anything in common.

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Some of the clothes are similar.

Turkish Zeybeks usually have loose, light garments in red, blue or yellow. Rarely green. İts resembling clothings that central asian Turks used to wear in the steppes, very colorful and patchy.

İ've seen some greek zeybek clothings that resemble the turkish blue Zeybek cloths.

İn Turkish Zeybek refers to both the dance and the nomadic folk heroes of anatolia synonymically.

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

The vests worn by greek honour guard soldiers resebmle the ones worn by Zeybeks

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Not all Turkish zeybeks wore vests İ believe, but vests were still widespread and they originally were meant to be worn by women in Turkish society.

They only became popular for men because it was a very light piece of clothing and it became fashionable as more and more nomads were forced to settle

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Besides the point, most depictions of Zeybeks and pictures from late ottoman era show them wearing the vest with the small capelets which is very similar to what greek honour guard troops wear. It's just an interesting similarity between the two nations. Not much to be read into there.

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Like you said, "late" ottoman era. İ was just giving a little context thats all

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Some motions in the dance resemble Zeybek. But the song is nothing alike. Turkish Zeybek has a lot of drums and zurna, the dance is slower, there is a video of soldiers dancing Çakal Çokerten. It's a good example of Zeybek in group choreography.

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kebab_welder@reddit

That’s some gay ass sh*t nevertheless

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Sea_Gap_6569@reddit

Is it originally Turkish or Greek?

🍿

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dontneedit000@reddit

Originally, it was more commonly played among Anatolian Turkish/Turkmen communities of the Aegean region, and it later spread into Greece through the populations that migrated from Anatolia. Of course, cultural exchange was never one-sided — we also have traditions such as Horon, whose name and part of its heritage are linked to the Greek/Pontic culture of the Black Sea.

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BouRock@reddit

It is like a gay version of Zeybek. Like any Greek copycat of Turkish culture

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muformoon@reddit

https://youtu.be/TaZWbrqUTTY?si=xKOlRDUydYTCw6lF

This is the Turkish version. The movements are similar, but the Turkish version is slower and the music is completely different. I don’t know about the Greeks, but for the Turks, this is a war dance.

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atzitzi@reddit

Completely different. It is incredible how a word travels and means sth different to another nation.

In zeibekiko first rule is that you dance alone. If someone is starting dancing then the others will sit down.

There was a famous crime once is Greece because of this. A man ordered the orchestra to play a a song for him but another man got up to dance and there was a blood shed. There were movies and songs about this incident.

Most famous zeibekiko is this

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Gazdanadam@reddit

Zeybek is also meant to be danced alone by an "Efe", but due to the dance being so mainstream in Turkey, due to the Zeybeks' association with the War of Independence, it has lost a lot of its associated culture, and has turned into a choreographed abomination.

Infact, the story behind "Kerimoğlu Zeybeği" is that Kerimoğlu danced Zeybek in a wedding without the permission of the elders. and was killed in the ensuing feud.

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muformoon@reddit

I absolutely loved this, even more than Op’s video! Solo performances are important in our tradition too, but we don’t have such strict rules as you do. Dancing together and accompanying one another is also encouraged. There are also Zeybek dances for two, as well as those performed in groups.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Looks middle eastern ngl

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Maximum-Doctor2564@reddit

Wait. You guys "invented" also the zeybek by putting a iko behind it? nice.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Uh yeah we invented the Greek version which is totally different to the Turkish one lol the Greek one was invented by drunks which is haram for Turks :)

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Gazdanadam@reddit

You joke, but we have a zeybek that's known locally as the "Drunkards Zeybek"

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

Eh, who thumps the book that hard. We still drink.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Yeah in Greece lol

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Commercial_Law_1689@reddit

No i make my own. #stonks

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atzitzi@reddit

Turkish was the official language Ottoman empire. Greeks used it too and modified it. So yes we probably did invented and put a suffix. You removed it?

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assprobably@reddit

There are other civilizations than greeks and turks that we can borrow words and food etc.

https://www.nisanyansozluk.com/kelime/zeybek

PS: Source is one of the best etymologists in turkey and he is armenian (sevan nisanyan) lol.

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atzitzi@reddit

The issue is not the word zeybek or baklava or yogurt. The issue is comments like yours under every greek thing with Turkish name. I mean, it is like I read a Turkish political article that mentions the word democraci and I rush to comment that hey you changed the suffix but the word is greek.

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assprobably@reddit

Well I am saying same things to Turks, not just Greeks, and if you look at that perspective entire scientific and political jargon is in either greek or latin origin 😃

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OhWellImRightAgain@reddit

Hey there are 4 Greek words in your English text right here! Find me an English person to argue with him about it and brag!

And since you talked about -ikos, the english words using the suffix

-ic (scientific) got it from -ikos actually

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assprobably@reddit

I have no problem using Greek words, it is a quite good and old language, please read again and try to understand again..

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NecessaryDisaster498@reddit

I put "Iko" behind my name. The greek army planted a greek flag on my head. I am greek now.

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eylch@reddit

song is totally different but dance somehow has resemblence. tho zeybek is slower. türk arkadaşlar için şarkının son kısmı bana aynalı çarşı türküsünü anımsattı başka benzeten var mı?

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Gazdanadam@reddit

Biraz benziyor

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Self-Bitter@reddit

and the rhythm... although the way you clap your hands is similar, it is done much slower in Zeybek

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Brosterz@reddit

Yoereki to ebiesi

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Gazdanadam@reddit

There are dozens of variants of Zeybek. Zeibekiko could maybe be inspired by a specific version which i'm not aware of, but generally Zeybek is a lot slower with different figures. Though the way he sweeps the ground and jumps does remind me of Tavas Zeybek a bit.

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berikiyan@reddit

On Zeybek we don't turn like a ballet piece. There are turns but much slower.

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

How boring! :)

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Sea_Gap_6569@reddit

There’s a joke about zeybek and horon in a traditional dance competition

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Defiant_Being_9222@reddit

This guy is doing it very fast. It's supposed to be slower actually. And it does look kinda like a ballet piece, whereas it shouldn't.

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berikiyan@reddit

Ok, then, makes sense.

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atzitzi@reddit

Berikiyan I don't know who is we, but zeibekiko is greek dance and that too can be danced in different moods

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yalnzaylak@reddit

We as in your komshu bradar

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atzitzi@reddit

Okay😄 I had to make sure because many greeks make fun of zeibekiko learned in dance schools with choreography instead of the original heavier sad dance that is

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yalnzaylak@reddit

I think they were much more similar in the past komshu we also play zeybek with a heavy tone 😊

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Careless_Look_8708@reddit

Greek version seems more feminine, or it may just be the guy who's performing in the video. I don't know.

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WonderfulZombie1557@reddit

https://youtu.be/1TadnMNq3rI?si=Va3F-fNLZwtnb7zk

Check the video to see how it is meant to be danced.

In OP's video the young fellow jumps around doing martial arts combined with what he thinks is zeybek dance. He is funny and sad at the same time if you ever loved the music of the passed generations. Also the song in your video is a disgrace of our traditional urban music and heritage. Of course redditors will say: but this is how it is now, but they are wrong, this is the televisionised version of something that is way different in its core, i am sure all balkan brothers here can relate and spot the difference.

I don't care about downvotes

Starkidiamu

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CockamouseGoesWee@reddit

I just realized many of our regional dances involve a dab. Noice

gif

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kromiti@reddit

That looks so lame ngl

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flippost@reddit

My sound is off but I still knew which song is playing

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Organic_Refuse4209@reddit

Even stole the Turkish name Zeybek. Atleast come up with another name 😂

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The_ScarRzZ@reddit

this is not dance is peacock moves

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Peacock? So you’re saying Greeks having sexual energy and aura thanks!

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Organic_Refuse4209@reddit

Even stole the Turkish name Zeybek. Atleast come up with another name 😂

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VastSky4124@reddit

Zeybek is much more slower the moves and name is similar but not the same game

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No-Specialist-1435@reddit

why are you so intentionally weird with your rythms? I feel like you're trying so hard to not accidentally sound turkish.

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Natural_Scholar_1502@reddit

It’s 9/8

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No-Specialist-1435@reddit

As a hobby musician, I know what rythm it is, but I was making a joke

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Odd-Understanding853@reddit

There are hundreds of different Zeybek songs and dances. Raising your arms in the air doesn't make it similar to Zeybek. The movements in the video are too stylized; it needs to be compared to the original dance.

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Fragrant_Seesaw_3402@reddit

But Turks have just belly dance, nothing more...

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unknownharris@reddit

Αυτό είναι ζεϊμπέκικο, ναι. Ζεϊμπέκικο της πούτσας.

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ksivris@reddit

That has got to be one of the worst demonstrations of zeibekiko I have seen. He can dance but I wouldn't call this zeibekiko.

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ErtashianBoi@reddit

Not quite like zeybek. That one is more like gypse dnace. Asıl benzerlikle horonlarda var ama çaktırmayın.

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nasosroukounas@reddit

Zeibekiko is a Turkish dance and personally I'm not really fond of it, just like i don't like bouzouki

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Zeybek is a traditional Turkish folk dance primarily found in the Aegean region (Ege Bölgesi) and the western Mediterranean. Its main regions include provinces such as Aydın (where it is particularly deeply rooted), İzmir, Muğla, Denizli, Manisa, Balıkesir, and Uşak.

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Away_Pineapple_1024@reddit

At least Turks are not gay

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Right…

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Alone-Excitement8864@reddit

The foot movements look like Caucasian Dance. Our Zeybek has a history. It is a symbol of vigilantes who defend people from corrupt officials and bandits. Also during Turkish war of independence(I don't like the translation here I will translate it as The National Campaign for Independence), when the government leaves the Anatolia to mercy of foreign countries they resisted and established local militia forces called kuvayi milliye, And became a symbol of resistance against Greek invaders from Greek and Greek bandits who live in the region.

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Stuckass-Lover8153@reddit

what's the song name?

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Αθήνα μου (My Athens): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ba3fOvlruU

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auddbot@reddit

I got a match with this song:

Athina Mou by Konstantinos Argiros (01:27; matched: 100%)

Released on 2020-06-05.

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Stuckass-Lover8153@reddit

good bot

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auddbot@reddit

Links to the streaming platforms:

Athina Mou by Konstantinos Argiros

I am a bot and this action was performed automatically | GitHub ^(new issue) | Donate ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)

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kvnstantinos@reddit

And if it is, do you also dance it in from of the parliament?

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TensionThink655@reddit

These guys also have a greek version of Zeybek?

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

There’s a Greek version of everything friend the world is GREEK!

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Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit

Lmao its not similar at all.

Zeybek is a much more symbolically significant, much slower dance, meant to convey a message.

The greek version just seems like a regular dance you'd see people dance to any kind of music. But both music and movement matters in turkish Zeybek

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n_o_r_s_e@reddit

It's quite similar to the old traditional dance form "Halling" from Norway.

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Prod_Meteor@reddit

200 years behind.

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AEtherLord_@reddit

This is much too fast for traditional Zeybek. However could be an interpretation of the traditional dance mixed with artistic flair of the dancer..?

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teaisthebestbeverage@reddit

Greek zeibekiko looks like gay dance compared to Turkish zeybek

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azuratios@reddit

That's a compliment bro, gays tend to be good in dancing

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Starfalloss@reddit (OP)

Yeah that’s how we prove it’s Greek!

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Young_Owl99@reddit

Oh how kind and respectful of you.

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itsdoctorx@reddit

Greeks freestyle dance ζεϊμπέκικο

It seems that Zeybek is more choreographed.

Also, when two or more people dance ζεϊμπέκικο, it’s not the same moves, unlike Zeybek

It’s more rare for more than one person to dance ζεϊμπέκικο, though.

It’s typically a one-person dance, and very informal.

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yalnzaylak@reddit

Zeybek has more than one style, it can be played with multiple people or single. Moves changw depending on the number of the person, gender of the player and the rythm of the music. Mostly formal but it could be informal too