Airplane Purchase Advice
Posted by Mundane-Card-8920@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 18 comments
Looking at purchasing a C150 before end of year and I’m looking for any advice on aircraft ownership. First and most important I think is my mission and it is strictly time building. As of now I’m instructing independently but am eager to get into aircraft ownership and being able to build hours on my own time. Another key factor in purchasing is that im an A&P/IA so figuring that will drastically cut down on maintenance cost. Aircraft would be secured through a loan with a 60k max budget. Biggest things im worried about is hangar cost/availability and not being to build much “actual” ifr hours which jet jobs are asking more of. Open to all insight and advice good or bad and even open to other aircraft (pa-28-140 or rv12 are other options I’ve been looking at).
EliteEthos@reddit
If you’re getting a loan for the airplane, what do you plan to dip into if the engine takes a shit?
Yes, you can save on the labor but there are still serious premiums on O-200 parts.
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
Exactly this. A&P doesn’t help when an overhauled O-200 engine cost 20-30k (correct me if I’m wrong). I’m making pretty good money where I’m at right now so could afford to get it done but with longer downtime. Is it reasonable to add on to the loan for stuff like this? I have absolutely no clue how this side of aircraft financing works.
Cessnateur@reddit
People in this sub are weird. On one hand, everyone seems to agree that TBO is meaningless and that, with diligent oil analyses, engines like the O-200 can be safely run well beyond TBO.
But, in just about every thread like this, everyone also pretends that the only options for engine replacement are either a full overhaul, or the purchase of an expensive, freshly-overhauled engine at around $40k and up.
For some reason, nobody seems to understand that it's quite possible to purchase a mid or higher-time engine - even an O-200 - for $12-20k.
Would these engines be better than a brand-new, freshly overhauled engine? Probably not. But it's an entirely legitimate and drastically less expensive option that is completely ignored in this sub.
EliteEthos@reddit
A pickled overhauled engine might be had for $35-38k. A newly overhauled will be $40-42k… before install labor.
The issue with a loan is that you’re paying interest on it. Even if you pulled out extra to cover those potential issues, you’re getting hit on interest for that money.
You could make it work if your plane cost about half of your actual budget.
I bought a 150 last August. Previous owner was an IA and spent a majority of the time refurbishing it and only flying it about 15 hours.
I buy it and triple that in like 2 weeks. Lots of issues emerged. I finally have it where I think it’ll be reliable enough but engines were a consideration. I was paying shops for labor but still over $10k for minor things to keep it running.
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
Is that actually what overhauled O-200s are going for now? I find that hard to believe as we are still getting IO-360’s with all accessories for 40k. Also I’m not worried about labor as I will be doing that all myself. You can make the argument that I’m still using my time but the dream has alway been to own and work on my own airplane. Was an A&P first and that’s what drove me to getting the flying bug.
EliteEthos@reddit
Yup. Continental isn’t making new ones from what I understand.
I’ve heard they finally started making crankshafts, so more of those are in circulation. You might only pay $8k for a new one instead of $10-12k
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
And this is why I don’t like to go over tbo. Once your out a crankshaft or case halves things start getting a lot pricier. But tbo may not even be part of the argument anymore as old as some of these engines are getting. I will make sure to look at that during prebuy on previous overhauls if it’s original crank or has been replaced.
EliteEthos@reddit
My understanding is the crank can be milled twice before it’s out of limits. Lots of dudes try to sell milled cranks for cheap without telling you they have been milled.
There are some decent shops that do great work on cases. And with all new internals, you should do ok.
wandering-penguin-21@reddit
If you are not using this plane for commercial purposes, BUY EXPERIMENTAL!!! I cannot stress this enough. I have owned 3 and I wouldn’t dream of buying certified, unless I suddenly find myself with ample money to burn lol Being an A&P definitely would save you substantially with a certified, but as others have pointed out, it doesn’t change the absurd cost of certified parts, STC’s or an overhaul…. Also, C-150s have a laughable useful load. For 60k you can get a nice E-AB.
sandalsabsentsocks@reddit
You didn't specify how many hours you're intending to build and how much time you have to build those hours. My advice from owning a cessna 150 aerobat, is to get in, get what you need from it and get out as quickly as possible. Do you need 300 hours, 600 hours? Can you take two months off work and fly 8 hours a day? What's the rush, are you in a cadet program for the regionals or a potential job lined up?
Unless you're talking about always having a personal aircraft, then you'd probably be looking for something that holds more than a 150.
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
I’m at about 320 and would like to build up to 1500 or until I get hired somewhere first. Then still may keep it for a bit until I’m ready to get in the next xc aircraft.
FyrPilot86@reddit
Cessna 172 in WA State. Our LLC might be parting ways with it. It’s a straight tail and needs your level of expertise. $27,000 ObO
ybitz@reddit
You’re a A&P/IA/CFI? That’s huge. You’re gonna be two steps above the average first time plane owner.
C150 is pretty simple and everything is so accessible. I don’t know what your A&P experience has been, but you’re likely familiar with Cessnas (that’s mostly what I’m learning in A&P school). Do a thorough prebuy, and if you can buy one with working but timed out engine and priced accordingly.
I think acquisition cost can easily be dwarfed by maintenance cost. So buy the best shape airplane you can afford
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
I’m definitely willing to spend more of the budget on a nice Garmin avionics suite with a 3/4 time engine rather than a fresh overhaul with 80’s avionics. Just depends on how sweet the deal is.
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
Yeah the A&P/IA helps a ton. I’ve got 4 years experience GA on 172s and pa-28’s but none on the 150. A Cessna is a Cessna at the end of the day though haha. Engine overhauls have me a bit concerned about purchase price. Where I’ve worked we always had the engine overhauled 400hrs past tbo. Never top overhauls unless something drastic happened like glazed cylinders on a fresh overhaul. I’ve never really liked the idea of just doing top overhauls because I’ve seen multiple engines start having weird issues and after pulling cylinders noticed corrosion on cams and lifters leading to a full overhaul. But then again I don’t have experience in seeing how long an engine will last by doing oil analysis (never had luck with these) and just normal inspections.
Pilot-Imperialis@reddit
Consider the size of the average person in your area and how much you weigh. I’m not huge, 210 lbs but I could stand to lose some weight. At my weight, flights in a 150 are a push with larger students. It’s an under powered bird designed for a time when people were smaller and lighter. If you’re on the smaller side it could work though.
Mundane-Card-8920@reddit (OP)
I’m by no means wanting to instruct out of that aircraft. Will most likely just be solo unless the girlfriend wants to hop in for the occasional sunset cruise. I’m 180 but also 6’1” so the height makes them a bit uncomfortable but I can deal with it.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Looking at purchasing a C150 before end of year and I’m looking for any advice on aircraft ownership. First and most important I think is my mission and it is strictly time building. As of now I’m instructing independently but am eager to get into aircraft ownership and being able to build hours on my own time. Another key factor in purchasing is that im an A&P/IA so figuring that will drastically cut down on maintenance cost. Aircraft would be secured through a loan with a 60k max budget. Biggest things im worried about is hangar cost/availability and not being to build much “actual” ifr hours which jet jobs are asking more of. Open to all insight and advice good or bad and even open to other aircraft (pa-28-140 or rv12 are other options I’ve been looking at).
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