KJYO Cirrus Offerings competition?

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dreamingwell@reddit

This letter is a perfect example how to not win this situation.

This doesn’t tell their customers why they should care.

Kuhn will inevitably under cut them on price. Might even drive them out of the airport. Then Kuhn will likely become the official partner.

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I worked for a company that offered training in Cirrus. It was all wealthy 40+ year olds that bought Cirrus and wanted to get their private and Instrument in it. It’s very expensive, and expect to take longer to achieve your private because of… The glass. It’s a lot, and you don’t need it for private. It’s very distracting for students. I had a sheet of paper and covered a lot of it.

The performance. SR20 performs a lot better than a 172. That being said, it’s a lot to get in front of when you start learning.

Personally, I’d choose to learn in a piper cub or a 152 and get good stick and rudder skills for cheap. Save the fancy planes for later. Develop good habits now.

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ClayCrucible@reddit

I'm one of those 40+ year olds, and I did my private in a Cessna 172. I can't imagine having done it in the Cirrus!

That said, I did Cirrus transition training the following year because I figured the SR22 was the plane I'd ultimately like to fly. The school's insurance required me to have 20 hours of instruction in the SR22 before I would be approved to rent it, so I did my instrument rating in the SR22. I actually think that served me really well; so much of flying IFR is about managing the tools in the cockpit, and if the SR22 was the plane I was going to actually fly IFR, doing my training and checkride in it made a ton of sense.

But yeah, private pilot certificate training in the Cirrus doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either.

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Anonymous5791@reddit

Former CIrrus instructor here - worked at a Cirrus training facility.

It’s not the automation that makes it take longer for a PPL, but rather just the speed of the plane. When you’re going 50% faster than a 172 your brain has to be that much farther ahead of the airplane and that’s a lot especially in busy phases of the flight.

Otherwise it’s mostly the same. A modern 172 is G1000 and fuel injected. It’s not really that much of a leap in automation to do it in a 172 vs the Cirrus. Sure there are places still teaching in ragged out 1960:s models, but at least here the clientele doesn’t want those anyway.

Zero to PPL is the biggest hurdle most folks will go through in aviation.

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ufsxgxlg@reddit

I assume this is related to Kuhns announcements last week. I've been flying with Nova pilots for years, so it's kinda odd to see that from Openair.

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Many-Firefighter9485@reddit (OP)

Yeah, I’m assuming OpenAir has some competition with Kuhns now since it’s even peaked my interest. Would definitely switch from OpenAir to Kuhns if numbers work right for me since I haven’t committed much. I’ve had trouble communicating with anyone from NovaPilots.

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

Piqued, not peaked

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greetsforteets@reddit

Just give me a SR22 with a sensible wet rate

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NYPuppers@reddit

I expect to see this more and more over the next 10 years. Cirrus planes from early/mid 2000s are getting price competitive with the cessnas, especially as there are fewer and fewer cessnas.

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AutomagicJackelope@reddit

JYO is such a cesspool of drama whenever competition happens. In the last 12 years I've seen numerous pursefights over things there that make "Days Of Our Lives" look like an insurance seminar.

OpenAir is a solid organization and it has been smart about its market. This letter was entirely unnecessary.

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Lootdit@reddit

training in a cirrus seems dumb ngl

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Many-Firefighter9485@reddit (OP)

Rate in my area is literally 100 difference between sr20 g3 and a g1000 172. I’ll pay that for the parachute and the comfort 🥹

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Mountain-Captain-396@reddit

$100/hr difference is MASSIVE. Its fine to pay extra for those things, just understand your training will cost signifigantly more than other schools like Aviation Adventures

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MeadyOker@reddit

Who just raised their prices and they were already not that cheap.

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vdubnthehouse@reddit

It would be worth it if they could keep their planes out of the shop for months on end. Literally waiting 3 months for a 100 hour inspection 🤯🫠 Looking forward to seeing what Kuhn’s rates are.

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MeadyOker@reddit

They are cirrus, so I'm going to guess not cheap. But maybe they can offset it with cash flow from other services in the airfield. Who knows.

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StPauliBoi@reddit

Sky ventures shoutout! 🎉🫡

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flybymike@reddit

Cirrus used to have a fatal accident rate higher than the general aviation average. COPA stepped up its safety and training initiatives and Cirrus developed the CSIP program. These initiatives significantly reduced the fatal accident rate, through standardized instruction. I know nothing about the instructors at Kuhns and their qualifications, but would urge anyone training in a Cirrus to commit to the high quality training standards developed by the Cirrus community.

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Only_Mind_4122@reddit

Can confirm this is regarding Kuhn starting a flight school. Kuhn has been stirring up rumors around the airport that they’re going to take various schools out of business for a while now. I don’t buy it. OpenAir is the only Platinum Cirrus Training Center on the field and it will likely stay that way for many years to come as they have very committed clients and aircraft owners in their system. I don’t see Cirrus taking away any partnership with OpenAir in the near future, and without the CTC designation, Kuhn will struggle.

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Hodgetwins32@reddit

Didn’t realize cirrus pilots needed training since they just fly auto pilot and pull caps when scary thing happen

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Hokie_Pilot@reddit

We’re shaming auto-pilot usage now?

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Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit

No. we're shaming lack of stick and rudder skills

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Hokie_Pilot@reddit

I get it, I was joking since we all do in 121 is fly on auto-pilot 97% of the time

But there’s plenty of pilots lacking stick and rudder skills flying all sorts of planes. This is like hating the the asshole drivers in BMWs more than loud-muffler-Civic because they have a nicer car

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Many-Firefighter9485@reddit (OP)

You buy a luxury car for the comfort and convenience, not sports handling and speed.

Unless you buy a Range Rover

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Hodgetwins32@reddit

purposely mismanages automation so that I have an excuse to hand-fly

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Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit

The autism missed the joke. My bad.

Can't I hate both cars?

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Hokie_Pilot@reddit

Honestly, I’m not that funny so probably not clear that it was a joke, and if so that’s on me haha.

As far as hating cars: I’ll just say living in the NYC area, the scariest cars to be around on the road are something like a 2011 Nissan Altima bubbling tinted windows with pretty much every bumper either damaged or gone. That dude does not care if he hits so let him merge if he wants.

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ClayCrucible@reddit

I’ve heard that Kuhn Aviation is going to start offering Cirrus instruction, and I think that’s who they’re talking about.

The other existing Cirrus school on the field is NoVA Pilots, which I’ve had great experiences with, personally.

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Many-Firefighter9485@reddit (OP)

Lmao there has to be a reason OpenAir has to send this right? NovaPilots, I’ve had trouble reaching anyone from them and I’m currently (lightly) committed to OpenAir. Would switch to Kuhns?!

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rFlyingTower@reddit

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What flight school is mentioned?

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