What’s your opinion on Kurdistan and the Kurdish people?
Posted by Unusual-Awareness-96@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 142 comments
Kurds live across Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. Do you think they deserve their own country, or should they stay part of those countries with more rights?
I’m Kurdish myself just curious to hear different opinions.
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
I dont know much about them but i find it cringe how everyone will support the palestinians right to self determination but will hate on the kurds
HantoKawamura@reddit
Meanwhile people slept on Artsakh while praising both Palestine and Kosovo
senindekorundan@reddit
google karabakh 1992.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Oh my God what the hell are you doing in Balkan subreddit at least go to r/eu or smth man
samvarr@reddit
Well there is no apartheid in the nations they live in.
They have their own autonomous region in Iraq, in Turkey they’re wealthy, have one of the biggest political parties, and are represented at every level in government, in the new Syria same as above, not sure about Iran.
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
Yeah yall treat them great, genocided in Iraq, slaughtered in Turkey (also a genocide imo), repressed in Syria,Iran
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Slaughtered in Turkey, what?
Don't they control like a quarter of Syria while making up less than 10% of the country?
Aren't they mistreating Arabs and Turkmens in their controlled areas?
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
You r all just proving my point
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Okay, what is your point?
samvarr@reddit
lol I’m not going to argue with you unless you’re either a Turk or Kurd
You don’t know what we lived through.
The PKK blew themselves up in Turkish cities, they killed doctors, teachers, they kill Kurdish villagers that didn’t join their cause.
My mother was a teacher in the east. She almost died while teaching Kurdish children in a fucking school because the PKK did a terrorist attack on it.
You have no fucking right to lecture us.
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
But you do have the right to lecture the rest of us about the apartheid in israel and you r not jewish nor palestinian?
taloschat@reddit
Gazans dont access outside. There are walls they cuts them off from outside. They are blocaded by see. They dont have airport cuz israel blow up. Also settler issue...i dont see anything smilar to that behiovore. Only issue i see is that kurdish is not official language. But also turkey is unitarian state like france thats were they got their state structure so...
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
People on reddit will try to convince me that certain people deserve oppression, just fuck off
VisibleReport5008@reddit
You said you do not know much about them, so let me tell you all opressed people arent the same. 2 very diffrent situations.
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
Lmao whatever
samvarr@reddit
It’s not even close to a comparable situation. I’m not going to argue with you on Reddit.
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
Whatever
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Oh but you won't talk about the people they killed? Politics are not that simple
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
You could do the same argument about the palestinians, dipshit
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
No point of wasting your time we will always be the bad guys in their eyes
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
Who are "you" exactly?
Unusual-Awareness-96@reddit (OP)
Exactly and I support Palestine
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
Same, just to be clear
Young_Owl99@reddit
My relationships with Kurds were positive. Also I apperently had a crush on one at high school.
The state issue is not about deserving. Of course you do. But no country on earth would agree to give up land. All the explanations on legitemacy and nation unity based on identity is nonsense. It is a simply keeping land and important resources issue. No country would want to lose and give up land and find ways to justify this.
Lothronion@reddit
This has happened in the past. From the Roman Empire under Roman Emperor Maurice giving the area of Sirmium to the Serbians, to the Russian Tsardom under Alexander II of Russia selling Alaska to the Americans for a ridiculously cheap price. Now whether it makes sense for Turkey to do so, that is an entirely different story, but the precedence does exist.
No2Hypocrites@reddit
They are more like exceptions. However, as a Turk, I think it would have been better if we never had parts of southeast. Basically south of lake Van and east of Mardin for me. Those lands also would have been worse but we wouldn't be having such a headache.
Kitsooos@reddit
But then you would lose Batman !
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Let's say we are giving them the land they want I'm pretty sure that most of them would straight up refuse to go there and I'm pretty sure that they would start fighting each other in few years
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
What rights do they currently not have that they should have (& based on what)?
Why do they deserve more rights?
Let's say Kurds get their own country, what happens to the self-determination of Assyrians, Turkmens and Arabs within that same territory?
fablesalazar@reddit
Many countries have minority sk issues like this can be easily settled by having protection laws or sams as kurd can decide to have their own nation.
In Iraq minorities have rights but no one follows the constitution.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
What are sk issues and sams? What's happening in Iraq?
It sounds like they do have rights, but it's a matter of enforcement? Why are we discussing rights if that's the case?
fablesalazar@reddit
I misspelled. I meant many countries have minorities and with laws( of course if followed) can solve the issues they face. In western countries they have less of this problem since many minors consider themselves as a part of this nation. Many kurds and other minors in iraq would never consider themselves as iraqis. From the past and current, minors face displacement and arabization in Iraq. This is also true in turkey, Syria and Iran.
In Iraq we have such law but never followed actually no one follows the law. In turkey according to their constitution kurd don't exist at all and kurdish language is forbidden.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
So, the claim that Kurds don't identify with the state (this is an assertion, you say this but haven't actually provided evidence to back this up) - okay. Why does the state have to bend to people that don't identify with the state, though?
I googled Turkey's bill of rights:
These all apply to Kurds as well.
The Kurdish language actually isn't forbidden - it's taught in schools and there are Kurdish only tv channels (even a state channel) and radio stations.
The claim that Kurds don't exist according to their constitution. Is your idea of not existing due to the lack of specifying Kurds in it? In that case, Americans and Laz don't exist either. I don't even know it's true but that's an absurd claim.
fablesalazar@reddit
Read some researches not surface knowledge from front page google ai.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
That's your counterargument?
Minors facing displacement - yeah they're going to the bigger cities for work. Shocker
fablesalazar@reddit
I told you to read some good research but u don't. Minors being forcibly displaced to eradicate them and put Arab people in it to change the demographics. For god sake, visit your nearest university and ask about this issue with a history teacher they would tell you what that means.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
My guy do you know what a discussion is?
You're asking me to do homework. If you want to debate someone, it's on you to convince me of your standpoint. I'm not gonna do your work for you.
Besides, I don't know who you are or who made you the authority for 'good research'. I didn't say I used google AI, but even if I did, AI pulls from public data. Whether I use AI or not, just because information came from AI doesn't make it 'bad'.
All you do is assert claims without backing them up.
fablesalazar@reddit
Sorry I didn't mean assert claims but the topic is really deep and reddit comments are really limited. To approve I need to do citation which is long and take some really long work. All I want is to do scientific research on kurds matters to understand in depth so you can come to conclusions by yourself. Ai can't go in depth especially for such matter becof regulations and reading articles from medias and think tank institutions are really biased.
On the matter of Turkey to show how they discriminate kurdish. Kurdish language is not allowed in schools. And, if you speak or write in kurdish, they can arrest you because in their constitution kurdish doest not exist only Turkish but now days they silently ignored this law but still intact. Even though they want to remove it they can't because their constitution confirms only Turkish identity. Maybe you say kurdish in Turkiye has best right. But it's also Turkey displaced many kurds in Syria near its border and worse cut many olive trees there.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Listen man.
You say Kurdish language is not allowed in schools. You say this, so it´s a claim. However, you don´t provide a source. You may say this, but I highly doubt this is true. Quick searches show that Kurdish is taught in schools. Maybe not all. But that doesn´t mean Kurds have less rights because the language isn´t taught in the Black Sea region (example).
There is no mention of Kurds in the Turkish constitution. You say this, so it's a claim. You haven't provided a source for this either. But we tested this logically, just because x-thing isn't mentioned in a document, doesn't mean we can logically deduce that x-thing doesn't exist. That doesn't follow.
The topic is Kurds within Turkey, which Turkey supposedly mistreates. Kurds in Syria fall outside of this scope. But you don't mention the context of regional instability, wars, conflicts. Kurds are presented at victims here, but I urge you to include what their role is. Do they take up arms? Have they partially caused instability? It's not as one-sided as you portray this.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
I'm okay with them having their own country but I want all of them to move to their country and stay away from as much as possible
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
This reminded me PYD/YPG in Syria. Even though they had %5-10 of population, they held %33 of all lands in Syria. Then they got attacked by their own Arab militia. Wonder why ? They never invested in Arab majority areas, only extracted them.
fablesalazar@reddit
When something is right I would say right even if it's against me. But you're brainwashed by your country media and have zero knowledge about the situation.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
On the contrary, I read this from international news sites. Dozens from them.
You are the brainwashed one.
fablesalazar@reddit
Dozens of them from your country media.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
If you are a terrorist organisation, you are doomed to fail. Read that from the international media below.
Although I don't believe you'll get awake from your ethno-nationalistic propaganda, be my guess.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-us-played-down-turkeys-concerns-about-syrian-kurdish-forces-that-couldnt-last/
https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/the-error-of-arming-the-syrian-kurds/
fablesalazar@reddit
Genius, the first one is being paid by your Big daddy- Qatar. Second is from NYT OPINION. You searched everywhere to find a garbage articles that no one care about them and deny an ethnicity that is infront of your door.
For your own good, give up the delusions u have been living in.
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
If you are going to pose as oblivious, there are tons of evidence to choose from.
YPG itself says it.
US defence chief says they are the same organisation.
US intelligence files contains it.
https://unitedworldint.com/27726-us-pkk-ypg-relations-according-to-official-us-documents/
Super_Yellow_4986@reddit
Get equals right?
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
What rights do they not have, in which country, would you specify?
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
They actually have more rights we are paying their electric bills lol
fablesalazar@reddit
Where? Prove it
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Electricity theft rates governments adds them to our bills
fablesalazar@reddit
Turkey electricity systems is pure private sector and every house is connected to a smart meter that sends data to your providers. So whoever makes any theft it can be easily identified and this map is based on this data. Whoever caught will be fined or jailed. Anyway, your government will mever pay any electricity bills for any power that being stolen, they pay the electricity on behalf someone who doesn't pay the bills on time which it must be you if you haven't payed the electricity bill on time😂. I know your country more than turkish people in turkey you guys must give me your passport as a gift.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
They just want turkey to be weak so they can invade it lol
fablesalazar@reddit
No one wants your land. it's your government propaganda to spend more on buying outdated military equipments. Your land is beautiful but has no benefits invading it.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
Yes, they deserve a country.
KathenWalle6@reddit
Yeah right in the middle of europe. Half of the territory from germany other half from france. They can even join eu that way. Yeah id support that kurdistan
Desperate_Role_3940@reddit
I dont care about kurds
Early-Show2886@reddit
me too...why a kurd ask this in a balkan sub? LOL
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
I mean,
Kurds r "more Balkan" compared to Turkey.
(language, culture, human rights).
Early-Show2886@reddit
LOL
Im a turkish romani so leave allone thanky,
Mechaindisguise@reddit
Lol
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
cope.
Super_Yellow_4986@reddit
Okay
Awkward_Writer5990@reddit
if they dont want to kill me im ok
Super_Yellow_4986@reddit
Rich coming from people that ethnic cleansed every other ethnicity
Tadimizkacti@reddit
Dude Kurds don't want to live in their so called "kurdistan" region of Turkey today with all the infrastructure and social investment. What makes you think they will when it's their own country?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
irrelevant.
Kurds "deserve" a state.
Tadimizkacti@reddit
I guarantee you, not even 10% of Kurds in Turkey would live in any Kurdistan established today. They wouldn't give up the luxury of living in Istanbul, Izmir and the other western and coastal cities.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Female army and somehow look more secular than Turks, though Turks insist they are more conservative, I don't know what's true and what's not.
NegotiationSweet5082@reddit
Let me tell you this much, no state, political entity, armed group, or community in the Middle East is secular. In fact, about half of the states are governed by Sharia law. Israel is included in this, by the way.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
interesting, since Turkey is Middle East, lol.
Fun-Disaster9796@reddit
Not all of Kurdish organizations and armed groups are democratic confederalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Cause_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_Hezbollah
samvarr@reddit
If you think they’re more secular than Turks you have absolutely no idea about the region lmfao
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I said they look like that, I think nothing, I know no Kurds.
RedditStrider@reddit
What you saw are sheer propaganda, nothing more. From internationally recognized terrorists who is known for child abductions, drug smuggling and literal bombing of civilian areas.
Normal Kurdish people tend to be considerably more conservative compared to turks.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Please do not talk about something that you don't know they are extremely Islamic
Ujemegaz@reddit
Depends on the political group. Just like other peoples they are not monolithic.
heisweird@reddit
Because you only meet one type of Kurds. Probably educated, migrated to Europe and so on.
Up until a few decades ago, it was still very common for some Kurds in south east Turkey to have child brides, sell their daughters to a man for marriage in exchange for money, deny woman education or kill their daughters for having pre marital sex or getting pregnant. It doesn't happen as much anymore but it still rarely happens.
Young_Owl99@reddit
The majority of Kurds in Turkey are really conservative. BUT, the party that represent them in the Turkish parliament is very left wing and try to change that perspective. Some see this as a manipulation that hiding their actual goal, an independent Kurdistan. Some others see it as a modernization and secularization effort.
The party is known for its connections with PKK so it is not really trusted by the Turks.
8NkB8@reddit
They deserve their own country and will inevitably get it. Kurds in northern Iraq were very gracious in my experience.
samvarr@reddit
From which sovereign nations will the land come from?
8NkB8@reddit
Iraq and Syria most likely. Eventually Turkiye.
samvarr@reddit
8NkB8@reddit
Laugh all you want, but it's inevitable.
Early-Show2886@reddit
you guys not so important that we in the balkans think on you...LOL its very simple..
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Turks will hate it other countries will celebrate it is that simple lol if something is against turkey they will always side with it European people do not care as long as it hurts turkey in some way
The_Thighbiter@reddit
It's either you are on the right side of history or on the Turkish side of history, simple.
The_Thighbiter@reddit
They deserve their own state
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Serbia thinks the same
The_Thighbiter@reddit
We are free, Kurds are oppressed mostly by Turks (surprise surprise, the occupiers occupy and oppress, must be a national sport in Turkey).
CataphractBunny@reddit
I think they have more than deserved their independence and a country of their own.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
Can you delineate which people deserve independence and which don't? What is it based on?
CataphractBunny@reddit
Can't you?
My own morals, world view, and a little thing called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
You can't answer a question with a question.
So it's based on preference. Alright.
What do universal human rights say about sovereignty? Is the right to self-determination unlimited?
CataphractBunny@reddit
I just did.
So you think straw man is the way to go here? Okay.
How about you read them for yourself?
CasperGwamm@reddit
LMAO, what a clown.
CataphractBunny@reddit
u/LingonberryDizzy6633 , your clown comment got deleted even without me having to report it. 😂😂😂
https://i.imgur.com/SI4Wr4o.png
LingonberryDizzy6633@reddit
You killed me with the stupidity bro, well done. Smartest Croatian ever.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
No opinion, I don't think about them.
Lol43216789@reddit
You exist?
Unusual-Awareness-96@reddit (OP)
Can you explain why you said that
Lol43216789@reddit
Because Kurdistan is not on any map :P
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
Like Yugoslavia, but it's in our hearts
Lol43216789@reddit
Like Constantinople, oh wait... it's called Istanbul now :3
StageFrequent4868@reddit
We all remember the Aremenian genocide shame on turkey
The_Thighbiter@reddit
Turk larping as Serb spotted
Lol43216789@reddit
𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰰
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
First writing around 600AD, Rome had already risen and fallen by then
Lol43216789@reddit
You know what else fell in the year 1453?
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
Yes, the Eastern Roman Empire!
Lol43216789@reddit
Correct, here's a gold medal :3
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
Why thank you
Lol43216789@reddit
*kisses you* You're welcome\~ :3
StageFrequent4868@reddit
What about kosovo????
Lol43216789@reddit
Kosovo actually exists as a country :3
StageFrequent4868@reddit
Are you really from Serbia ???
Lol43216789@reddit
Yes, must be surprising for your feeble mind to comprehend that not everyone from Serbia has the same opinion regarding Kosovo\~ UwU
StageFrequent4868@reddit
Kosovo is Serbia Serbia is kosovo remember 1389
Lol43216789@reddit
"Serbia is Kosovo" ☠️ Son...
StageFrequent4868@reddit
Freedom and independence for Kurdistan Rojava 💚🤍☀️❤️
Unusual-Awareness-96@reddit (OP)
If you look at historical maps, especially during the Ottoman Empire and even before you can clearly see Kurdistan shown even before modern countries existed
Lol43216789@reddit
Cool, that's historically the case, what about today though?
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Please create a special place to hate turkish people this sub should be about balkans
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
And why are you guys even including turkey at the first place we are not even from Balkans we are nothing like you guys lol (not in a bad way)
determine96@reddit
Why you are nothing like us ?
I don't like also when "our" people try to claim that we were always historically european or some shit.
Like 500 years under the Ottomans and even before that Byzantine or Orthodox influence wasn't like the Catholic and later the Protestant one and after that 45 years of Communism (Ok, it was Socialism, but still it was a dictatorship).
So the guys from "our" side who also try to neglect all of the Ottoman influence are cringe.
I mean I don't really think that a Bulgarian or a Greek is closer to a French or an English than he is to a Turk.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
We are Asian and you guys are European most people think that eu = good/asia = bad there is nothing wrong with being Asian Turks should realize this
Consistent-Boss-7670@reddit
PKK is a terrorist and infanticidal organization
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
They will still ask Freedom Fighters in Europe no matter how many civilians and babies they kill
KathenWalle6@reddit
Europen governments nor europeans dont care how pkk kills they know what pkk is and its a terror org, but they care about is that they kill turks and thats more than enough for europeans to love and support them.
Thats all its that simple, they kill turks? Then goats. Train of thoughts of an avarage european in simpliest form
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
Exactly they should just accept the fact that they fucking want turkey divided it's clear as sky
Unusual-Awareness-96@reddit (OP)
I didn’t say anything about the PKK
FrothyEspresso@reddit
I support them and their struggle against their oppressors. Also, America has let them down significantly.
If Kosovo is able to have independence, the Kurdistan should be allowed too.
ZestycloseHat4990@reddit
Im kinda enraged how their opression is underdiscussed.
Fun-Disaster9796@reddit
There is too much racism against Kurdish People and I am against it.
Last-Nebula4158@reddit
I never ever saw racism they just like to be victims that's all if they want their own country they can have it but I never ever want them in my own country again if they accept this I'm okay with it
cutyouiwill@reddit
They should have their own country. Grabs popcorn.
arcane_labor92@reddit
Knew a Kutdish girl once. Many years ago she left for Turkey to see the place where their village used to be. Her mom was killed there too from what I gathered. The girl was extremely smart and by the looks of it (I googled her very distinct name a couple of years back) she made a career in academia.
StageFrequent4868@reddit
Independence for kurdistan palestine western sahara kashmir tibet etc everyone is happy peace
nekdo98@reddit
They are the largest nation without their own country. They deserve their own country.
life_hacker_14@reddit
in slovenia
Ujemegaz@reddit
I support them, just like i support every opressed native people deprived of their basic rights to language and self identification.