What’s the current Spirit seniority list look like? Is it a bunch of very senior guys close to retirement and then the bottom is very junior 1500 guys?
Posted by fighting_gopher@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 86 comments
Seems like so many people left that Spirit is hiring despite shrinking dramatically…so who’s left?
birdup320@reddit
I’m sorry some of y’all had a bad experience with former coworkers of mine. Most of us are actually extremely pleasant and professional, even in spite of how sharply our QoL has declined in the past few years, and especially in the last 8 months. I still have fun when I go to work because I enjoy the people so much. Doubly so when I don’t get rescheduled.
Assholes are the exception and not the rule, just like every airline. Reading a few of these comments, some exceptions might be in this very thread!
To ACTUALLY answer your question, the seniority list is people like me (10 years seniority +) in the left seat where a jump to a legacy really didn’t make sense in 2021-2024 because, as stated over and over again, it WAS a great job with decent pay and little work. Most of us have our apps out, but I’m curious what will happen, and I’m saving as much money as I can so when I do make the switch (or suddenly lose my job) I don’t have to sweat it that much.
On the FO side, lots of Aussie ex-pat pilots, lower time guys, or people with no Turbine PIC. Most of them are awesome pilots, but don’t fit whatever metric their airline of choice is looking for because they are getting pickier.
I hope that answers your question!
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
As a former spirit guy I’d love to know about this QOL spirit lifer’s talk about. It wasn’t all that great.
Reserve was a shit show and a damn joke. Years on short call, never breaking guarantee? Awesome.
I for one make sure to express my sincere appreciation for being at my legacy carrier and to ensure no part of me expresses “this was better at XYZ” because the bottom line is, I’m not there any more and chose to leave.
Are things perfect at my legacy? No. Not do I want them to be.
What they are is light years more professional and better compensation etc.
I’ll hold Hawaii eventually. I have a long time to do those.
fighting_gopher@reddit (OP)
Ngl I bid reserve as many guys do at my company in order to be home more. I break guarantee on holiday months or vacation months. So one person’s QOL is not always the same as another’s
DogeLikestheStock@reddit
Airline guys would spontaneously combust if they had to work elsewhere in aviation. 🤣
TomToddlesworth@reddit
Or god forbid go get a real job
MJG1998@reddit
Airline flying is a fantastic career, imo probably the best for those that feel a calling to it... but if you don't understand that it's a real job you're in for a rude awakening if you ever wind up flying the line.
CommuterType@reddit
I’m on my 4th airline. No flames yet
rotardy@reddit
Most of us have worked elsewhere.
DFWmovingwalkway@reddit
Probably, still gonna complain though.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
I just flew with a former Spirit captain. I've never met a guy more bitter to be a year 1 FO.
Baystate411@reddit
Pro stands that shit for an attitude adjustment. I hate filling out probie forms but if they were that shitty about it...
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Nah, man. It wasn't to that point.
srbmfodder@reddit
I do our union mentor program, and have about 5 spirit guys that are new hires under me. All of them are extremely grateful to be at my airline. They know they got a bad deal, and are happy to have a life preserver. A lot of them are prior military, so maybe that's the difference.
I did hear one of my chief pilots remarking out loud when I was in the crew room that our Spirit people in general seem pretty happy to be here, even more so than our people that came from our regionals.
AlwaysB_Fartin@reddit
NK left seat to legacy here with halfway decent seniority, live in base. Don’t know which one you work at, but I can tell you the QOL at my legacy is akin to a regional. I actually might’ve had more schedule flexibility at my regional tbh. Should that guy be such a bitter asshole, definitely not. But as someone who made the jump I can tell you, just because you’re at a legacy doesn’t mean the job is better. It’s better in name and maybe job security (at the moment) but life at NK was definitely more chill with a better QOL. Most of the guys are only making the jump to put food on the table for their families and don’t care what the paint on the plane looks like.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Sure , life at NK was great. But now it ain't. And you complaining about QoL is no surprise for a junior guy.
AlwaysB_Fartin@reddit
Agreed that life was good, sucks now for those still there. But I also agree and disagree with your statement. For starters, I’m probably not as junior as you think I am. And maybe we’re at different companies but at my legacy I can tell you that what NK has/had in terms of QOL would run circles over where I’m at now. The old heads can’t comprehend some of the work rules. That being said QOL can be subjective to the individual, and what I consider QOL is not what I have where I currently am. Also, the mentality that being junior has to suck is a poor way of thinking and short sighted imo. As far as schedule flexibility goes, even a junior line holder at NK could for the most part manipulate their schedule to get close to what they want. It doesn’t have to always suck being junior.
Several-Village5814@reddit
Stay at spirit then
AlwaysB_Fartin@reddit
This attitude right here is why things never get improved. Just because I said QOL was better I “should stay at spirit?” Is your ego so fragile or your brain too smooth to comprehend the fact that there might actually be some things in the NK CBA that are better than whatever airline you’re at? Instead of get offended I said NK had better QOL than where I am now, how about try to figure out how to take the good things and try to get them implemented when it’s time for the next CBA at xyz legacy. But hey, check out those pay rates!
ozzies_35_cats@reddit
Did we fly with the same guy? Just had a former NK CA as my probie…I get that he’s been chewed up by this industry, but holy cow was he an angry person.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
Is he super into building experimental airplanes?
legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit
Experimentals are SUPER cool. AND FUCK spirit….
Less-Willingness3595@reddit
Fuck….are his initials M.M.?
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
No... M.P.
ozzies_35_cats@reddit
No…Darn, this means there’s more than 1 out there…
dashdriver@reddit
There’s at least 3 out there…
Mundane-Reality-7770@reddit
Ned's kids must be a bitter bunch.
the_devils_advocates@reddit
I’ve had pretty good luck thus far. We shall see 🤷♂️ pays to have left earlier when the opportunity was there though. Nobody to blame but themselves
LookoutBel0w@reddit
You sir, have the benefit of hindsight.
the_devils_advocates@reddit
I also put myself in a position to be uncomfortable for years as I went through various training programs. Getting too comfortable is how that happens to people
Flimsy-Ad-858@reddit
Yeah almost like there could be a little more to it than that
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Big L take brother. Many of those captains got hired 2008-2011 and by the time “various training programs” were available for them to “stop being comfortable” in 2019 the math simply didn’t make sense to leave for a legacy.
Not everyone’s situation is so cut and dry. Many were close to retirement or legacies ghosted them after a single failed attempt
the_devils_advocates@reddit
Hard disagree there. The opportunity for them to jump ship when the hiring picked up elsewhere was the same opportunity I had. I took it, they didn’t. The next opportunity when they started winding down and announcing furloughs, what, two years ago? That’s when the next batch left, to include senior guys and good friends of mine (hired at the time you mentioned). Those who waited until right now don’t have anyone to blame but themselves
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Your friends likely weren’t as old or senior as the ones stuck there now.
After 2019 they’d be silly to leave spirit with top 10% seniority. It’s basic math. 3-4 years up there makes more than 10 years new hire at a legacy before they’d retire. We’re talking about the old guys here not a 30 year old year 8 guy
the_devils_advocates@reddit
Not true. If they left when the opportunity they’d be in the same seat I’m in now making significantly more than they were at NK. Hell, narrowbody FO almost pays what you can make at NK as a captain. Your seniority point makes no sense. You literally mentioned the 08-11 hires. That said it doesn’t matter. The reality is those still there got too comfortable and by choosing to wait to leave did themselves no favors
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Like I told the other guy, hindsight is 20/20. It’s really not as simple as “they were to lazy to leave”
the_devils_advocates@reddit
No, I agree with you there. I don’t think it’s laziness at all. I think it’s lifestyle creep and complacency
space_bollocks@reddit
Fuck a duck, he might be my hangar neighbor! LMAO
LikenSlayer@reddit
PETA joins the conversation 🤣
sprulz@reddit
One of those situations where I totally understand why they feel the way they feel, but I wish they’d go feel that way somewhere else. My regional got a few ex-Spirit folks and they were understandably very salty about taking a step backwards.
Full_Wind_1966@reddit
And I also feel like the step to legacy was a step forward and one most of them would likely have made anyways.
I think it just gives them an opportunity to "excuse" their behavior
LookoutBel0w@reddit
16 year spirit captain to a legacy with 10 years left in your career is a massive step backwards
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
You have to remember you’re talking to a bunch of young, chronically online airline nerds in this forum that don’t really understand the industry yet. A “legacy” airline has nothing to do with the quality of the pilot career.
JPAV8R@reddit
Yeah for them to think that all Spirt pilots were eventually going to a legacy is crazy. In their head all aviation jobs are a flow to United, American, or Delta.
I’m willing to bet that there are some Spirit pilots who will end their careers at a regional. Especially if they’re of a certain age and get the years of service credit plus DEC.
Some of them probably have lifestyles that they don’t want to scale back as year 1 FO at a legacy. They’d rather take year 10 captain pay and maybe a checkpilot position.
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
Most everybody on this sub thinks United and Delta, and sometimes AA are the only three career destinations in the industry. In reality it’s those three plus SWA, ASA, FDX, UPS, and based on some individual circumstances, JBU and F9.
If you spend some time looking through historical threads here you’ll find it’s mainly just stroking egos. For example, the most entertaining recently are the threads of people asking DL or UA. You’ll see DL and UA pilots trying to justify their own career decisions and how they somehow have it better even though the career is literally identical as it is at every major airline.
To your point, you’re right that spirit guys especially those age 45+ are not going to have a great career at another major. Especially at DL/UA/AA, junior NB life there is not much greater than a regional, junior WB life marginally better but not by much. They don’t have enough time to spend in the upper echelons of the seniority list to benefit.
This career is all luck and timing.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
No, Spirit used to be a valid career destination with the best QOL contract out there.
JPAV8R@reddit
I dunno. If you were a 10 year captain with Spirit there is no chance you planned on a legacy eventually.
If that was the case they would have left Spirit when an ATP written could fog a mirror into a major.
TSwiftIcedTea@reddit
I’ve been hearing the same thing. Do you think these folks will make it off probation?
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
I'm guessing they all will after a few attitude adjustments.
swakid8@reddit
I am not here to condone their attitude.
But
I mean, put yourself in their shoes. Give up seniority, lose your seat, taking a big paycut, junior again flying junior schedules, now likely have to commute a junior base, sit reserve…. That’s going to have some stress and impacts one’s QOL and family.
That’s a bitter pill to swallow for anyone even though the have a job.
They will likely just need some time for their wounds to heal. Hopefully, they will be able to get past it.
CommuterType@reddit
Nope. Save that bitterness for a merger or something but don’t ever bring it to a new employer. Nobody gives a shit about your struggles because we’ve all had them
swakid8@reddit
I am not a spirit guy…. I am not suggesting to give a shit or downplay anyone struggles.
Just have some empathy and show some grace. That’s all. They will get over it.
CommuterType@reddit
I’m on my 4th airline. I’ve been merged, stapled, downgraded, stagnated and through bankruptcy (twice), and I would never ever bring that shit with me to the new airline who hired them and unload it on other pilots who had absolutely nothing to do with it. Ever. And fuck the ones who do.
skylorde787@reddit
The spirit dudes had a good run… hopefully they saved and can just coast as an FO. Most people don’t get the chance to be a CA for major and FO at a legacy. The new contracts are lucrative… make the best of it. 🤙
swakid8@reddit
No disagreement…
I just think we need to have empathy/grace for the spirit folks if they come off bitter.
It sucks to go through what they gone through. I do hope that they can find their new niche and enjoy life.
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Amen
mfsp2025@reddit
One of the worst captains I flew with as a regional FO was a DEC from Spirit. Complete bitterness. He literally told me “I hate flying with brand new FO’s. They’re so happy and full of life”.
leftrightrudderstick@reddit
Jesus, that's a Germanwings type thing to say...
mfsp2025@reddit
This was a while back so I’m probably not quoting him verbatim but the gist was, he was miserable with this job and hated flying with excited FO’s who loved the job
JPAV8R@reddit
Could you imagine the dichotomy there? One guy is just wide eyed about the fact that they can’t believe that the company pays for the hotels and per diem. The other can’t believe that life brought them here.
“Hey Cap, what’s your favorite overnight in the system and why is it definitely Rochester?”
Captain: 😡
fighting_gopher@reddit (OP)
🤣
PM_ME_YOUR_PITOTTUBE@reddit
Most of us aren’t like that I promise. But recently this has been the sentiment from the more senior Spirit CA’s
BigCasetteBoy@reddit
On the flip side, I just flew with TWO NK captains I personally flew with who were now my FOs at a legacy. Both were very happy to have jumped ship.
PUFLY3R@reddit
I’ve flown with plenty of former Spirit FO’s, some with more time in the bus than I do. Are they bitter about how things went down? Of course! Who wouldn’t?
That being said, I haven’t flown with a single one that let it bleed over into their current situation. They’ve been great to fly with and I usually learn a thing or two.
TRex_N_Truex@reddit
You think that’s fun, try being the CA that was their FO 7-8 years ago on the same plane. Only time I have to do the “look at me, I am the captain now” deal.
Most of these pilots are happy to find a lifeboat, but every so often I get paired up with a guy that had a glass completely empty and it makes for a long trip. It’s the same people that told me I was stupid for leaving my seniority I held when I did.
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Can you blame him
frost08887@reddit
Well it was a better job for years
imapilotaz@reddit
For better or worse, anyone with over 5-6 years of seniority and over the age of 4x likely have stuck around.
While it protects pay on top end, seniority lists make moving jobs insanely painful after a handful of years. Theres very few examples in the world where someone at 45 years old and 20 years experience cant move jobs without being paid the same as the guy at 25 years old and zero experience.
In potentially an era of bankruptcies this will become evident again.
And if you are a pilot at the regionals, Spirit dying is terrible news. 2600 pilots hitting the streets with Airbus experience is going to significantly slow down your ability to jump to a major.
Aggressive_Light_173@reddit
I don't think it'd have a huge effect on hiring, would it? Even if Spirit isn't the one that does it, the routes that they flew will still need to be flown by someone, so I'd at least assume other airlines would take up the old Spirit stock and the total number of pilots in the industry would remain \~the same
imapilotaz@reddit
Very unlikely in current environment anyone picks up those aircraft except to retire older aircraft.
Airlines have all be quickly rolling back ASM growth in the past 2 months and its only getting worse. $20B in additional fuel costs do that to an industry
Guysmiley777@reddit
Just wait until the youngins learn about how unpleasant "staples" are when a bankruptcy merger happens.
Shinsf@reddit
Can't staple anymore
I_am_Mun_C@reddit
Staples have federally illegal for almost two decades now…
Shark-Force@reddit
Do you know what I would give to be stapled to an airline that will exist in 5 years? I don’t even work for spirit.
Used_Shower3984@reddit
I don't think that's 100% true. When I interviewed with American there was a 50 year old 18 year Spirit captain there and he wasn't the only one.
homeinthesky@reddit
My airline is hiring spirit guys like crazy, some in their 60s with 20,000+ hours. They’ll most likely never touch left seat again, unless they go to the worst smallest fleet in the worst largest base, and even then they’d be the 100% guy for the last year or maybe two of their career sitting reserve. And that’s only IF that fleet exists in that time since it’s only a matter of time before we have to shut it down.
Shinsf@reddit
Most don't need to touch the left seat. They are just sick of the "am I losing my job today" mentality they've been living in for 6 years
ResponsibilityOld164@reddit
717 ATL lol
Imaginary_Amoeba3461@reddit
Flew with plenty of 10+ year CA’s getting out back in 2024.
One guy was a LCA with offers at every legacy. Don’t know where he ended up going.
Glittering-Elk542@reddit
Not Spirit but fo had been through the grinder with Pan Am and Eastern. He would do checklists and that’s about it. Flew with another with a similar background and he had a great attitude. So I think it comes down to the individual.
Matuteg@reddit
My friend who is a captain for 10+ years at spirit just started at UA. Lots are flocking away
80KnotsV1Rotate@reddit
The same mix as before. Not everyone who wants to leave, can leave. Lots of lifers that have been around since the early days sub 10 years left and no logbooks to update. Lots of regional jumpers that jumped at the wrong time and got stuck with no hours.
JDLovesTurk@reddit
It looks pretty much like any seniority list. People from all over it have left so it’s still pretty evenly spread out seniority-wise.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
Looking more and more like a temporary job.
swakid8@reddit
Very likely a mix of both…. You have top of the list guys who kept their bases and seats, then you had guys who were safe from furloughs, trying to find a a exit but the exit hasn’t become available yet. You likely have junior guys who took the recall.
febrileairplane@reddit
No one. It's shutting down.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Seems like so many people left that Spirit is hiring despite shrinking dramatically…so who’s left?
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