I think I'm done talking about the future
Posted by _clockisreal76@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 180 comments
One of my colleagues said today, "Everything will work out, we just need to innovate our way out of it". *Internal scream* Innovate? Really? We can't event stop fighting over the same things but somehow we're suppose to rely on future tech to fix everything?
Are we really innovating or are we just finding ways to delay the consequences of our negligence and actions? It feels like everything is already in motion and we are just pretending we can steer it. Maybe I'm overreacting? But it feels like the walls are closing in and everyone's carrying on like everything's normal.
Because if it's really obvious, why does it feel like everyone's just going along with it?
RamblinRoyce@reddit
Yup. Unless you're in a major position of power, there ain't much to be done. Even if you were the president of a major country such as the USA, China, or Russia or ... You could implement policy changes to tackle climate change and then you'd have to gather support and then you'd have to find the resources and budgets to fund your changes and then you'd have to find competent people willing to execute your policy changes, all the while fighting roadblocks implemented by the rich and powerful companies who would suffer from your policy changes.
So if you ain't in a position to do that, what's there to do? 🤷🏻♂️
And honestly, if you are in a position to do that, good luck getting it done.
Personally, I try to enjoy my life, avoid the news, avoid toxic people, enjoy my hobbies, maintain my health, appreciate and be grateful for my easy lifestyle and readily available food & water knowing that it may start disappearing someday, and try to be kind to others and give them the benefit of the doubt and try to have faith in humans.
Cuz there ain't much else i can do.
Smoke em if you got em!
Lailokos@reddit
Sometimes I like to list out all the major, worldwide, will hit in the next 5 to 10 year problems in these sorts of conversations. Just so it becomes clear how much we would have to innovate our way out of. And then as a nice follow up - how many of them are even recognized? Has someone working on them? Usually you get silence or indignant anger as a response.
cdulane1@reddit
It is odd how objective truth and/or (imo) a reasonable approximation of our history and expected trajectory gets people really upset. Don't shatter the "dreamworld," would ya?
x_alexithymia@reddit
this has been my experience when trying to educate people on the state of the pandemic in 2026. people are extremely resistant to hearing the truth because it’s scary. it’s very similar to climate change in that way, but i’ve been really shocked and disappointed how pandemic denial/lack of education is the case even within this subreddit!
IfYouGotALonelyHeart@reddit
It’s crazy how many people believe COVID just went away.
x_alexithymia@reddit
even crazier how many supposed “leftists” fell hook, line, and sinker for “vaxx and relax” and ignore the disabled people begging them to educate themselves. it’s been very eye-opening for me to see how quickly leftists will betray their values (of listening to and believing minority groups, and listening to science) when the alternative will force them to change their habits.
Pineapple_puffs3847@reddit
Youre asking everyone to live in hazmat suits and fear literally forever though. We dont shut the world down for any other flus or dangers, and every day people die in scores on the roads. Its not personal, its just not realistic bro
x_alexithymia@reddit
uh, no. you’re assuming that’s what i’m asking. you didn’t ask, you just invented that in your head. there are MANY realistic mitigation methods that go ignored precisely because people think in the black-and-white way you just exhibited.
Pineapple_puffs3847@reddit
Name them. Hazmat is the only realistic way to prevent spread, and its too late for that. Yes we can demand masks and social distancing, but how long are you going to demand that of people? And we both know those shitty masks dont stop the particles....we dont even have universal healthcare yet bro
x_alexithymia@reddit
see, bro, you're not educated on this issue but you keep talking as if you are. cloth masks and surgical masks don't protect the wearer, but N95s absolutely do and that's not up for debate, bro.
1) N95 masks
2) far UV
3) HEPA air purification
4) proper ventilation
5) CO2 monitoring
6) regular testing
7) wastewater monitoring
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lavapig_love@reddit
I will personally demand masks because I still wear my KN95s indoors and I still witness people hacking and coughing. Crappy as they are, they're still better than nothing.
pvdfan@reddit
Within 5 months of the US shutdown, starting large number of red states forced all teachers and students back into the classrooms with zero distancing or masking rules. 10 months after the shutdown started we , staff and students, were told that unless we had a fever over 102 to come in because it wasn't serious. It's no wonder nobody takes it seriously because many governments told them point blank it wasn't a danger and it ignore it.
ColonelFaz@reddit
Fun fact: defunding AIDS drugs in Africa has made the next COVID/flu pandemic much more likely. People with compromised immune systems are a great place for viruses to evolve.
cdulane1@reddit
Ya, I have two friends who've had a cough for about a month......wonder what it could be?
cdulane1@reddit
Look into John Cook's FLICC taxonomy for science denial. I'm using it to develop a science comm/misinformation course and it's quite genius. https://crankyuncle.com/a-history-of-flicc-the-5-techniques-of-science-denial/ ( would be a good start but there's manuscripts, videos, etc around it)
x_alexithymia@reddit
this is really cool, thanks for sharing!
Ratbat001@reddit
The sad thing is, our system actively fights against innovation. People say they want new stuff, better tech, cleaner alternatives ect. but if it cant be monetized, or if it will unseat major players in current industries, they will actively work to destroy it. Meaningful change, even on the deck of the titanic, gets in the way of hookers and blow.
Whenwhateverworks@reddit
Its the frog in boiling water and normalcy bias
lavapig_love@reddit
Expect more and more people, especially in the United States, to lack the energy for action as they lose access to food stamps and other social programs. I suspect this is entirely by design.
PosturingOpossum@reddit
I’ve long held the belief that humanitarianism and environmental/social justice efforts were a luxury of the affluent. Poor people don’t have the time, money, energy, or emotional capacity to think about grand visions for a better future. They are too busy surviving the now
Bellegante@reddit
You may think that, but as people run out of food they tend to become surprisingly more motivated
Comprehensive-Cap754@reddit
Yes, motivated to fix what they think is the problem. The problem here in the US is, we're so heavily propagandized, that we might not realize what's actually going on. I fully suspect that a whole bunch of far-right idiots Will lose access to food stamps, and instead of seeing what's actually going on, like the Republicans completely selling them up the river, and the world is dying because of it, that they will just blame the Democrats as usual, and we'll see a massive uptick in assaults and murders in the country based upon that
vegansandiego@reddit
Yes, I consider myself to be well educated, and I didn't realize how propagandized we are until I started traveling as an older adult and meeting folks who kind of told me what was going on in their countries.
I'll never forget the time someone in Colombia pushed back on me when I said Cubans weren't free. He said, what is freedom? The freedom to medical care? To University education? To a roof over your head? Do you have that in the US? Maybe you should ask yourself why you believe what you believe. Ugh.... I felt so dumb, but grateful that I was able to learn something that day.
Now, with social media, we can learn about the world from anywhere. And yet, we are still just as propagandized, or more.
Bellegante@reddit
Attacking those people won't stop them from not having food, though, and it will be pretty clear who took away the food stamps.
Lockridge@reddit
They literally think they have giant hospital bills because of illegal immigrants, not the industries fucking them over. Incredibly classic to pit poor whites vs. poor minorities, and this time will be no different.
Comprehensive-Cap754@reddit
Not to them, it won't. They literally consume consume no other news than Fox News, or one American Network or something else of that nature. They are completely insulated in a bubble. They think anything that disagrees with their worldview is false, by default. If someone on their side says it, it's true, no matter how ridiculous, simply because it's coming from their side. This is the level that we're talking about here. They will not think, they will not critically analyze. They will be told by Fox or someone else on TV, that it's the Democrats fault, and that is enough for them. They will not think anymore about it, they will just react as if that is the god-given truth. And if told that is not true, they will automatically dismiss it out of hand, as fake news, and Democrat lies.
FoxOnTheRocks@reddit
Yeah but it doesn't matter. Most successful revolutions in history were not peasant revolutions and most successful revolutions were not started by increased privation. The problem being no matter how motivated the peasants are the fact that they are poor is a material weakness. The state, with its abundant resources and access to violence, usually crushes them.
pvdfan@reddit
More like they are actively killing off people with cuts. I'm just hoping the rest of the world doesn't suffer from all the CDC and medical research cuts.
mem2100@reddit
There really are a lot of people pushing for decarbonization. Sadly - Big Carbon continues to launch ever evolving Global Disinformation Crime Waves. The result is a determined core of followers who have joined the drill team.
vegansandiego@reddit
We have to change consumption habits. Decarbonization won't work unless we consume WAY less. That would mean a change in the way the system runs. The GDP is no measure of a healthy society. We need really bold ideas to get out of this situation. Good luck...
kingfofthepoors@reddit
What they don't tell you the frog had to be lobotomized to stay in the water, we're dumber than fucking frogs
summercookiess@reddit
Are all people dumber than frogs?
kingfofthepoors@reddit
uhm... if you have to ask
summercookiess@reddit
And?
ToiIetGhost@reddit
The call is coming from inside the house
kingfofthepoors@reddit
.... yea you might want to run this conversation by chatgpt or your mom.
BrightCandle@reddit
Disney also threw the lemmings over the cliffs, they didn't actually do that themselves. We are dumber than frogs and acting like the lemmings Disney made a story about.
summercookiess@reddit
Are all people dumber than frogs though?
Wave_of_Anal_Fury@reddit
Most people (usually given as close to 90%) claim to want more climate action, while most people are complaining about the price they have to pay to fill up their tanks. This includes many of the people in this community.
It's why I rarely talk about the future anymore, and rarely post here. Most people don't grasp that the two are intimately connected. You cannot want climate action and cheap fossil fuels.
surewhynotokaythen@reddit
I'll take me EV trade in whenever they want to give it! I'll gladly install my turbine and solar panels when they give em to me to eliminate the carbon footprint there. I'll also retrofit my home to recycle gray water for a hydro farm, as soon as they pay for it. I'd do all of this RIGHT NOW if it didn't cost me an arm and a leg to do it.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
Even though i'm a centrist, i am aware than you can't have both climate action and cheaper fossil fuels at the same time.
There needs to be a change. But given the shortsightedness of politicians, mainly in the United States of America, we'll be heading in the other direction. Which will lead us towards political, economical and societal collapse first.
RichardsLeftNipple@reddit
The liberal and centrist perspective. "I agree with all the things we need to fix, but I can't be arsed to actually pay for it"
Meanwhile the further authoritain or right you go the more we get "There is no problem so stop talking about it, and even if there was it's too expensive to fix so give up, and even if it wasn't too expensive it isn't perfect so give up, and even if it is perfect it's too late so give up."
FoxOnTheRocks@reddit
But the thing is, you don't actually need to pay for it. Left wing economics does not engage in the myth that taxes fund social programs. Leftists know that printing money does.
What we do need is access to real resources and labor hours, and the second isn't that big of a deal because we have a lot of people in this country who aren't working and who want work and would be pleased to work in the windmill factory.
kafircake@reddit
This is also like so many environmentalists. "Yes we must address climate change, but no, you can't build a pylon here!" So parochial and short sighted.
a_dance_with_fire@reddit
Yup. The system itself is broken and not sustainable. Wholesale changes are needed and most people don’t want to loose the conveniences we currently have
Sweet_Speed3382@reddit
Indeed, most wouldn't want to think of a world without dense energy sources that powers so called modern transportation and large scale production.When All of these are the reason for our current poly crisis.. we need to go to medieval times of simple living
kafircake@reddit
We have vast amounts of energy hitting the Earth from the sun. We don't need to live like medieval peasants at all to live within the limits of the world in a sustainable way. We have access to abundant energy, but we also have an entrenched energy old-guard that wants to dig or pump up every gramme of fossil fuel and sell it.
Quarksperre@reddit
That's kind of the worst thing about this all. From a resource point of view everyone could have a shelter, enough and very good food, almost all medical advances, longer lifespans, waaaay better social connections and just be generally an happier life.
We still could have progress and science.
But it would all have to slow down massively. Aimless ambition should be shunned upon. We made the error that ambition and the drive to success gets the highest possible value and that idea has spread all around the world.
There is a ton of literature about all this starting from David Graeber, a lot of philosophers and social science contributors.
All that doesn't matter because we won't change it within time.
ruskibaby@reddit
is there a manual of sorts for the average american worker (who presumably relies on their job for salary and health insurance) to accomplish this? how to reshape your life into “simple living”.
until we break free from the chains of our labor, we will continue being forced to commute to work, buy gas, and complain about gas prices because we’re already stressed enough as it is about going to our shitty jobs while war and genocide and inflation rage on all around us, and not being paid fair wages to top it off. barely scraping by.
i know we need to start small, start local. we need community resources and taxes that pay for universal healthcare instead of war. life as it is, is not truly sustainable. i believe many people feel this way, but they don’t know what to do and stay trapped in the rat race.
does anyone know of any resources like what im trying to describe? some guidebook of sorts that isn’t just about homesteading and raising chickens, but specifically what actions to take in order to break free from the hamster wheel and get to a place where you CAN do all that? how to finance it, how to deal with healthcare, etc., but for the average person (no generational wealth or inherited acreage). how to navigate such a transition while also working and paying rent and bills and such.
ahem… asking for a friend.
Objective-Cow-7906@reddit
you might suggest to your friend the design school for regenerating earth.https://design-school-for-regenerating-earth.mn.co/landing?from=https%3A%2F%2Fdesign-school-for-regenerating-earth.mn.co%2Ffeed
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
I think there is intentionalcommunities subreddit, and twoxpreppers for some aspects. I do not think there is easy leak out out of system designed to keep people in. In theory you should connect with big enough group of people and try some gardening etc together, so you have some pool of talents, instruments library to draw from, etc. In reality everyone is busy just doing motions about life. Land might be cheap but in another (US) state. Setting up big enough set of houses from their unmaintained states can take small fortune (or small army of volunteers). Reality of disconnected living - you have much less of everything. Might work for some, but I bet it also wears you off ....
May be play postman a bit and see who around can be trusted for longer projects ....
TheUpbeatCrow@reddit
The problem is that most people are living on the edge—of poverty, of homelessness, what have you—and each additional cent that goes to the pump is a cent that can't be used for food or shelter. But food and shelter also can't be acquired without using fossil fuels to go to work. And the beat goes on.
It's not fair to blame people on the brink of disaster for wanting cheap prices. "We" (as in the human race) are responsible for this problem, but Joe who works at Cracker Barrel isn't really, not in the grander sense.
In a perfect world we'd all have enough surplus in our lives to be able to drive less, use fuel less, buy an electric car, and so on, but the truth is that Joe's first priority is feeding himself and his loved ones. Those of us in the know can talk until we're blue in the face about climate action, but it won't matter to Joe as long as his basic needs are at risk. Call it Maslow's hierarchy of fuckery.
nickiter@reddit
Yeah. Every form of fossil energy should be expensive, with a big tax associated with it. Yes, that will impact lower income people, which means social support for them would be even more important than it already is. Nothing addresses over-the-road emissions more directly than higher fuel prices.
UninvestedCuriosity@reddit
I was showing someone that heat map of India posted here the other day and the person told me to stop being so negative.
LevelBad0@reddit
I get this same reaction a lot. It’s basically their way of saying real talk doesn’t have a safe space. It’s makes them uncomfortable so they internalize it as bad vibes, then blame you for causing them to feel bad. Like, I’m..sorry? Lol
Kitchen-Paint-3946@reddit
I had a conversation with someone that does not believe all this nonsense..
And my bestie is in finance and keeps talking about retirement portfolios 25-30 years out… internal scream..
Doesn’t want to talk about what’s really happening And last year was like .. I know buddy, shits gonna suck for the next generation..
I’m like fuck no it’s sucking right now! Ecosystems are collapsing They can’t adapt fast enough
Extreme weather news is being suppressed.. Ahhhhhhh gggg
This way of thinking, it’s a future problem, tech will solve it.. is how we got here
Good luck to all those who are aware of the storm coming
If you think I’m crazy, follow the money, insurance companies know: Search this article “You know who knows climate change is real? Insurance Companies The Institute and Faculty of Actuaries in collaboration with the University of Exeter suggest up to 4 billion people will die by 2050 and a greater than 50% drop in Global GDP by 2070”
Also I believe years ago that the elites have already decided that massive war, famine, will reduce the world population and force people to panic, vote for more centralized power, new world order, surveillance state, in order to regain power..
Each week it looks more and more like this is true
Pineapple_puffs3847@reddit
But think about it. 4 billion less humans, thats HALF the pollution, greed, ignorance, and self satisfied ego just....gone. Silver lining
Interestingllc@reddit
2100 is not some kind of wall, it will only get worse and worse till the survivors envy the dead.
Pineapple_puffs3847@reddit
You say worse and worse, but i hear less and less co2 and marvel movies.
Interestingllc@reddit
The emissions we have released already are enough to tip the scales against us. unless aliens come down with c02 capture technology that actually works this isn't going to end well.
myshtree@reddit
agree
Effective-Ebb-2805@reddit
You're not overreacting. People have been raised and programmed on the capitalist religion. If they can't see the lunacy of thinking infinite economic growth can come from finite resources, they certainly won't see the bigger picture... some because they can't perceive of it, others because their terror won't let them accept it.
And, it all started from believing that most destructive of verses in the Old Testament: Genesis 1:26 "And God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea... and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Novel-Proposal9444@reddit
Timothy Beal, Prof of Religion at CWRU, and student of Walter Brueggemann, addresses this "Most destructive of verses" in the book "When Time is Short, Finding our way in the anthropocene" (2022). Faith in human exceptionalism, "inspired and ordained by a Christian theology, and god-like dominion over creation, has only grown in our post-Christian world". I highly recommend this work.
Effective-Ebb-2805@reddit
I'll check it out, thank you! Daniel Quinn talks about it too, in "The Story of B"... fictional, but some very interesting ideas, this one included. Also a very cool, related interpretation of the story of Cain and Abel. Spoiler: we're Cain...
Extreme-Homework-697@reddit
People won't believe me when I say it's literally all connected back to monarchy. It's not the "elites" or "billionaires"; everything goes back to monarchy. Monarchy is everything wrong with humanity, and we are still very much operating on monarchy software. Hell, the UK and its contemporaries are very much alive and well. Since when have we ever left monarchy? Let's quit the pretense.
You can't have an upstart capital if you didn't hoard it in the first place. You know why you're poor and the "billionaires" are rich? Here's a little secret ingredient: kratocracy. Your forefathers were beaten to give up their earn of labor and were convinced by the "rich" that they were god's descendants, thus gave right to rule over your forefathers.
Monarchy is literally built upon kratocracy, which naturally leads to kleptocracy, autocracy and theocracy, otherwise no "peasants" would ever participate in this game in the first place. Nowadays, they call it "meritocracy". Kakistocracy, aka nepotism is how they maintain this "nobility" bloodline lie. Capitalism is just feudalism rebranded, because they figured being "lords" got your heads hacked off.
History has been so censored, most people don't even know why they're poor in the first place.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
I'll share some lyrics from the song First Light by Lana Del Rey for the title sequence of the upcoming James Bond game 007:First Light and get my personal points from them.
"It's the first light of day when you wake." - Every morning that i wake up i feel that everything around me is falling apart and that there's little that i can do about it.
"Dying just to know whether you'll play your life like a game." - I will point out that life isn't a game but wealthy capitalists, mainly millionaires and billionaires think that people are an expendable resource.
3. "But there's one life for you." - People have one life to live and it is true. Might as try to make the most out of our lives. But unfortunately capitalism doesn't allow it.
Thank you for allowing me to analyze some of the lyrics from this particular song. It is related to collapse, in a way.
sporkafunk@reddit
Here's my argument against "innovation" and "green gadgets."
And it's very simple: energy spent has a predictable equation. And if you understand the manufacturing end-to-end process, you'd understand that each phase has a predictable energy input, and a material output. Those phases all include a predictable mass of greenhouse gasses.
Capture the carbon? More output to build gadgets that capture carbon. Etc. and so forth. And I don't know how people don't get bored of this thought process.
You can't escape the laws of thermodynamics with happy thoughts.
Piling warming gases on top of a warming climate is why systems are collapsing quicker than expected. Because of exponential building. When you add more warming gases to 1980 levels, you top out temps quickly. But we're not adding to 1980. We're adding to 2026. So topping out higher and faster. That's how electrons work, folks.
gtah@reddit
I’ve gotten to that point as well. As long as the majority have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and ways to do those things….nothing will get done collectively. As long as the majority lack both the resources and direction to become self-sufficient….again nothing will get done collectively.
I am now recognizing that’s a privilege to even be able to speak on how dire the situation is. The average perpetually overworked, financially strained person isn’t going to respond well to hearing a version of reality they don’t agree with. That being said, if the general sentiment of this subreddit comes to fruition….at least we told them.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
Yes, we tried to warn people but we will get brushed aside.
rustyburrito@reddit
It can be difficult or impossible to reconcile the dissonance between the infinite growth paradigm we currently live in and the physical limitations that ultimately make it impossible
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
There's simply no infinite growth. People who believe it are fools.
hw999@reddit
Do you know about the tragedy of the commons? Well, Earth is just one really big commons. Capitalism will "innovate" ways to strip the commons and make a profit any way possible. The incentives to destroy are far, far greater than the incentives to preserve and nurture.
Jovan_Knight005@reddit
Exactly, we'll continue heading towards collapse and there's nothing that i can do about it. No matter how many thing i do throughout a single, like throwing trash in appropriate trash bins.
Lemonthepotato@reddit
This is the answer I’ve heard. ‘They’ll invent something,’ but if I ask who ‘they’ are and what they’re ‘inventing’ I get no clear answer. Carbon-sucking unicorns?
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Next time ask "when do we start innovating?"
What are we waiting for?
What does "innovation" look like? What other problems have we solved with "innovation"?
It's religious faith in technology without any understanding of thermodynamics or the actual problems.
I want to know why the "keep calm and carry on" morons get to chant their bullshit out loud but questioning it is some deeply cynical evil shit. Who am I kidding. I know why.
ManufacturerNo1478@reddit
Because it is too horrible to think about.
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BTRCguy@reddit
One of my colleagues said today, "I have no idea what we are going to do and I am in denial about it".
FTFY
granolalalaa@reddit
Eric Swyngedouw is great on this. May we all be as honest as he, shouting "there is no hope!" at a green energy CEO: https://youtu.be/ptKJ5jWxF_0?si=Yf4d85SMKuluJXuV
MacTum@reddit
Yeah...inovate means : Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
planktonsmate4@reddit
You’re not over reacting. I still think it’s okay to keep trying, even if you know there is no future. Just for the sake of the human experience. Sure, the net negative will always out way the positive in a burning hellscape such as this one, but you also might smell a flower or make a friend along the way. Not to sound too doomsday Mr rogers here, but that’s what keeps me getting out of bed in the morning. Usually.
voidsong@reddit
"Innovate our way out of it" is just "thoughts and prayers" for people who worship the stock market.
The funny part is, you can have (and have had) a parade of top scientists come out and say "There is no way we are innovating our way out of basic physics. And even if we could, we've already seen that the economical and political will to do it simply does not exist".
And you would still have millions of 8th grade dropout "Nah, i bet 'we' can do it". Who the fuck is "we" bubba? The smart people who have a chance are telling you no, and it's not gonna be you who cracks it.
ThrowDeepALWAYS@reddit
“All true stories end in death.”
Ernest Hemingway
loco500@reddit
"And they lived happily ever after...until they x_x"
loco500@reddit
The only major innovation and progress happening at a large scale is towards an endless surveillance society...
Coco_Cannibal@reddit
It's not only relying on future tech, but on the very future generation we are currently fucking over. How are they supposed to do anything, if education has been so thoroughly fucked up on purpose to create mindless automatons?
How are they supposed to be creative while sweating and starving in a world that effectively destroyed?
Your colleague is crying over gas prices now, the future generation will be crying from hunger and the inability to sleep in the heat at night after a 16 hour day at Amazon.
Cool-Contribution-68@reddit
Just ask, who is the "we"? It's not your friend. It's not you. It's somebody somewhere. Somebody somewhere is looking into it, researching it, solving it, doing work on it. That's what we take for granted in civilization--someone somewhere has this covered.
This is why, in the US, watching the gutting of federal funding and services is so horrifying. Because people in the future are going to look around and be like, "Wasn't there supposed to be someone working on that disease?" "Wasn't there someone supposed to be monitoring the food quality?" "Wasn't there someone experimenting for decades on that topic?" I just assumed there was... I assumed there was someone on that problem already. Because there used to be.
When the historic record-breaking disaster hits, someone is going to show up to rescue me, right? Someone is going to pay for my town to be rebuilt, right? Someone is going to pay out for my things to be replaced, right? When the shelves don't have food on them, someone in a lab somewhere is doing some galaxy brain DNA shit to fix this, right?
Last-Independent747@reddit
:)
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red_zephyr@reddit
Grow a garden
lev400@reddit
Internal scream Yep
Rich-Sheepherder-649@reddit
The comments…. Just enjoy your days the best you can. Nothing is coming to save us.
FlashyIndependent592@reddit
Believing that future tech will save us is no different than believing that some deity will.
Bromlife@reddit
The funny thing is, that as a species, we're not even investing in it. What are we investing in? AI and power hungry heat generating datacenters. Good job, humanity. Let's speed run our demise.
waffledestroyer@reddit
Maybe the idea is that AI can innovate our way out of it, if it's powerful enough.
Bromlife@reddit
Too bad the solution isn’t in the training data.
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
I think solution(s) are in training data, just they not statistically popular, and will interfere with Main Profit Directive of this currently dominating "Capitalism.AI" ...
evhan55@reddit
This is a good point. AI just regurgitating what the world is already set up to do.
ideknem0ar@reddit
Or my favorite: "The children will save us!"
Been hearing that since I was a kid and I'm 50. I didn't want that job as a kid and I won't insist some kid do it now.
My body's pretty broken now but I'm just gardening and being frugal and trying to make it to the point where I can self exit. Probably by 80 - plan is to give my pantry away to a food bank when I just don't want to live in this shambling carcass anymore and then embrace it. I've seen too many relatives cling to life and medical intervention simple for quantity of life, burdening everyone around them to no end except number go up.
evhan55@reddit
This one really gets me too.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Of course - technological advancements have greatly improved lives / reduced suffering across the globe for the past many decades - So it isnt the same as believe a diety will save humanity at all.
keynoko@reddit
Funny how a lot of those technologies while kind of nice in the short term are teeing up disaster in the slightly longer term. So are they really improving lives after all?
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Things like MRI imaging, Dialysis, water desalination, broadband internet access to rural / 3rd world hospitals... those kinds of technologies?
Yeah we can be pretty confident many technologies have dramatically improved lives after all.
keynoko@reddit
I could take those one by one if you want (water desalination is a great example of a double edged sword) but you've lost the thread. We're talking about technologies that will save or destroy society. Go back to the original comment and try again
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Oh so the thread is an imaginary hypothetical "thing" that will solve every human problem at once?
Gotcha lol. We can end this dumb conversation here then.
keynoko@reddit
Carbon sequestration, solar reflecting chemicals, and indeed water desalination
So many examples of technooptomist "solutions"
You gotta think bigger and more clearly
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Thinking bigger and clearly reveals that technological advancements have drastically improved human lives for the past many decades.
Pretending this isnt the case because there cannot be a perfect solution to any problem which does not have secondary conditions is silly.
Solving a problem creates a new problem to solve. It is the cycle of forward progress and nature of the world.
keynoko@reddit
Go back to my first comment. You're losing the thread again and making a couple logic fallacies.
Short term (energy intensive and/or poorly regulated) benefits are teeing up catastrophic climate change, ecosystem collapse, disease epidemics, etc etc.
They were nice while they lasted, but no techno optimism is getting us out of the mess we've made.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Original comment states believing in technology advancements to "save" us, i.e., make the future better, is the same as believing a diety will act in the world.
I maintain that is a completely ignorant argument.
keynoko@reddit
Lots of logic fallacies here again. Straw men and imprecise suppositions. The only one revealing their ignorance is unfortunately you sir.
Faith in technology, faith in a deity. The common thread is that leap of faith. Some people have faith and some don't. Some don't because they see how the negatives of new energy intensive and poorly regulated technology are quickly outweighing the benefits. The argument is pretty clear.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Nah, technology makes the world better and will continue to do so. Faith not required.
keynoko@reddit
If not faith, then in your case blind and selective optimism because it is also true that technology will spell the end of modern civilization as we know it. It is already happening, faster every day.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Simply a truth evidenced by the continued evolution of humanity. No faith or blind selective optimism required.
keynoko@reddit
Here's your evidence https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00745-z
Now go sing kumbaya over at r/optimistsunite
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Very cool. Sorry im not doomer enough for your liking lol.
FlashyIndependent592@reddit
Thank you for understanding. Indeed my comment was about faith in the solutions anything promises. We have lost the plot. Smoke some weed everyone, perspective shift.
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
Truth.
flybyskyhi@reddit
We’re finding ways to multiply and accelerate toward the consequences of our negligence and actions
kafircake@reddit
Yeah.
It feels like the start of a horror or disaster movie to me. Like the start of Jaws where the people of Amity Island were resisting the growing evidence of a giant shark. "Oh that chewed up leg? Probably just fell off a surfer. No problem here. Open the beach!"
fuf3d@reddit
We have a choice.
Evolution starts first inwardly, it isn't noticeable from the outside.
We can choose to evolve but you have to let go of the external, this includes falling victim to victim mentality and doomerism which is basically this thread or subreddit.
I'll probably get banned for this, saying you have a choice - they don't want you to believe that - they want you to agree that you are the victim and your choice has been made by others.
rockb0tt0m_99@reddit
It's a way for people to cope. Continue on like business as usual. Furthermore, I don't think people really know how to come to terms with the reality that the world is shifting. So, they figure they'll just cross that bridge when they get to it.
eye_of_the_sloth@reddit
Someone in my family said i shouldnt worry about climate change because back when they were younger 70s-80s there were people worried that the climate change would usher in an ice age. I guess since that was wrong they think this is wrong. Very sad to hear and have to try and explain that im not worried about climate change-Im worried because the climate changed.
vinegar@reddit
Yeah it’s so tedious. You can’t reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into. “But 70s ice age” is a denialist talking point. It’s just a way to end the conversation. And when I’m feeling generous I understand it, ofc they don’t want to talk about how we/everything are all gonna die because they(/we/I) personally fucked up by going all in on capitalism and consumption.
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
Isn't Atlantic current circulation break up supposed to bring cold to Europe, at least partially? Also whole "extremes get more extreme as planet heats up".. I guess main idea in 1970x was discovery that whole current favoirable climate is very sensitive balance,and you can get Venus or Mars just by very slight distance variation from Sun at planet formation time. At least this is my reading of that was put in \~1980's book Toward Distant Suns a Bold, New Prospectus for Human Living in Space (Heppenheimer, T. A). I was so surprized by his take on climate change "it can wreak us, but we can make our way out of it by everyone becoming wealthy" - I downloaded zlib copy of it. And yes, it was not just mashup in online version .... Very strange take, but may be at the end of the book author was less strict to his own thinking. So I think it was a bit of shock to discover we really, really lucky to live on this specific planet, and how easily things can go wrong. It probably filtered to pop magazines of the era and people's mind in this strange form .... I noticed it as talking point on some space solar web pages (global cooling) but I dunno about lineage of this thinking there. anyway, having something you can turn off in case you misunderstood something is always nice ... too bad turning down whole FF use turned out to be not so simple ..... due to whole aggressively fighting back inertia.
alphaxion@reddit
Climate change and environmental damage aren't tech problems - they're attitude problems.
As long as humanity views everything through the lens of money/profit and getting 100% or more out of what you put in, then these catastrophic issues will never get resolved.
That isn't to say you can't use tech innovations/improvements to reduce the damage being done. But they'll never stop the damage or adequately compensate for it, because of the attitude we take towards shaping and forming our societies.
Just look at how people manage their gardens.
They'll throw round up everywhere, without thinking about the damage it is doing to the surrounding web of ecosystems. They then have to resort to even more damaging actions to counter the repercussions of those initial actions - more artificial fertiliser because they've killed and removed nitrogen fixing organisms and nutrient recyclers, removed the dead and decaying matter that they'd consume, throwing more pesticides around because there aren't any predators keeping "pest" species at bay.
If they changed their behaviour and accounted for and gave space for nature in their garden, they wouldn't have to resort to so many harmful actions. Sadly, you'll get "but I don't want creepy bugs around my house!" as if their garden isn't existing within nature.
switchsk8r@reddit
x isnt y it's z
Bandits101@reddit
Not a word but I would guess some things are just too difficult for you to comprehend.
Bandits101@reddit
You and whole world can do all the nice things you can think of that will stop the Earth from heating. I’ve got very startling news for you though, there is nothing anyone or any group can do that will even slow warming.
For instance what do you think would happen if ALL emissions ceased this minute? Do you think GHG’s will return to normal, if so how and over what time period.
There is nothing anyone one to blame but humans past and present, looking for scapegoats only serves to rub your clutched pearls.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Innovation can help mitigate future harms, but ultimately it can not address that the planet's resources are finite, the biosphere's capacity to absorb damage is finite and the energy we can access is also finite.
You can't invent a machine that makes new materials, or produces energy without an input of materials and energy. You can only ever circulate the existing stuff and each time you lose some of it as waste.
This is something no clever future machine can solve. And thus, the consequences of too much consumption and too much pollution will strike down on us, hard.
We could invent sth to mitigate the outcomes but we can't prevent them. Innovation will not lead us to a 'good ending', there's only bad and worse ones to pick from.
Kootenay4@reddit
I genuinely believe that if we let scientists cook, we could figure a way out of this.
Unfortunately, the flow of capital has determined that certain kinds of scientific progress are threats to their profits. It is no coincidence that climate and environmental research is increasingly treated by the establishment like the church treated Galileo when he posited that the earth revolves around the sun.
It is no coincidence that despite the enormous progress made towards improving the cost and efficiency of renewable energy, we are still having fossil fuels shoved down our throat at every opportunity. We have the solutions right in front of us, and we have the money and labor force to implement them, but the problem was never innovation, it’s politics.
ruskibaby@reddit
i mean, they put solar panels on the white house and then the next guy took em right off. we could already be using solar and wind power at scale, but we’re not, because “the economy”.
i yearn for a different future. but perhaps we’re too far gone.
Roofies666@reddit
I yearn for the same, but also accept that it unfortunately is too far gone.
Psychopathena@reddit
We are and the way I see it is that all there is to do now is adapt, endure and BEHEAD THE MOTHER FUCKING FOSSIL FUEL CEOS AND THEIR ENTIRE BLOODLINES
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
On linkedin someone shared article about Overview energy startup, and their plans to beam infrared from space (LEO first, GSO) lately to ground based solar farms at night ...
https://arenamagazine.substack.com/p/making-space-lasers-boring
I disliked shitting attitude towards older, microwave systems (flight-tested too back in 20th century, with human testing them in beam) but I guess we will see in 2028.
It will be also interesting to see if anything will come out of those fusion startups - I hope they will release at least research papers!
extinction6@reddit
Humanity can't spend the money needed to capture and sequester the 100's of billions of tons of CO2 that need to be removed from the atmosphere for us to survive when countries are scrambling to build up their military might due to the number of mentally ill world leaders that are malignant narcissists, pathological lairs and sadists that like to go to war to kill, and steal land and resources.
These leaders want to be remembered in history when they are so shortsighted that there will be no human history because of their climate change illiteracy. China wants to invade Taiwan and they are stealing the South China Sea, North Korea just wants to nuke someone so their people starve, Netanyahu is committing genocide and stealing land with the weapons provided by the US, Putin wants to be remembered as a famous czar so he is killing millions of people to become famous, and Trump is a killing machine that wants to continue stealing and killing to fill the emptiness inside him and eventually continue his global rule using his newly formed Board of Extortion, presently called the Board of Peace.
And people think these sadistic killers are just wonderful. when they have burned up our only hope of survival.
rabarberbarber@reddit
Can you imagine if all the money that is spend on AI would go to to proper research. And also fuck intellectual property law in these cases. So much knowledge getting stale.
Kootenay4@reddit
Or infrastructure.
I hate that we have headlines like "Is California's $100 billion high speed rail too expensive?" right next to "Amazon plans to drop $200 billion on data centers" and "Meta wasted $80 billion on the Metaverse with nothing to show for it"
Thanks to lawmakers refusing to tax these companies at a fair rate, they can accumulate infinite money and casually set it on fire for shits and giggles, while the government literally cannot afford to construct basic infrastructure that actual people use.
Lost_Birthday_3138@reddit
The billionaires bought up our media with their extra pocket change.
Sleepy, comfortable Americans let them run their project for decades and now we're cooked.
HitIerWasWrong@reddit
Hell, if AI compute was prioritized for accelerating research rather than for making better advertising platforms.
abu_nawas@reddit
Literally this. Every conflict in nature is about the finite nature of matter.
snertwith2ls@reddit
The other piece of the innovation issue is that the old industries tend to pre-emptively fight any innovations that will put them out of business so they get little chance to do the good they're made to do.
Bandits101@reddit
This needs to be the top comment.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Thank you bro
Empty-Equipment9273@reddit
Rice on chessboard getting doubled
First slowly than all at once
BeetleBones@reddit
I think it's obvious that technology is not the solution
Any advanced technology requires huge amount of power and natural resources to construct and run
Adding more tech into the mix is just going to increase emissions and further strain available resources
The solution is an immediate and radical step away from technology
Which if course is impossible given human nature
Kiss_of_Cultural@reddit
If it were going to be invented it would have been by now. But the tech firms with the most money are not focused on saving anything, they are focused on trying to make money for their shareholders.
mellbs@reddit
For my own sanity, I use a ton of discretion in choosing who I talk about the future with
Bellegante@reddit
People are just so used to seeing innovation because we kept seeing things getting better on the technology side until about 10 years ago.
And, if you weren't really paying attention, you could be convinced that things like AI and Tesla and more "advanced" cell phones were actually better between then and now and somehow counted as innovation.
So from his point of view we've constantly had innovation his entire life, so why wouldn't we innovate our way out of whatever problem comes along?
Calm_Hedgehog8296@reddit
I mean you're sure as hell not going to do anything about it.
And historically everything has worked out okay, more or less.
Maybe I'm in the wrong sub
alloyed39@reddit
When people say "innovate," they mean creating a magic wand that will solve the problem almost instantly without anyone having to change their current behavior or expectations.
vinegar@reddit
There’s going to continue to be a lot of innovation towards ensuring the Right People won’t have to make any sacrifices.
GeneralZojirushi@reddit
We've never innovated shit. We've kicked the can for the past 70 years, hoping future generations could do something about it. Now we are the future generations, and we ain't got shit.
RandomBoomer@reddit
Every solution creates a new set of problems.
ideleteoften@reddit
We innovated our way in to this mess, and we'll innovate our way out! /s
Pulmaozinho@reddit
Had this convo with a friend as well recently. Their response was that the market and economy would adapt to the troubles of the times and somewhat demand innovation. The example he brought up was how fast the COVID vaccine was created in comparison to any other vaccine. Then I showed death numbers and questioned if we'd be able to adapt fast enough to well... Avoid mass death. He said it's inevitable that people will die, but the survival pressure would make things work out. He also chooses not to think about climate change and stuff it since there's not much he can do about it anyways, but like... That's part of the problem too. I'm not doing enough either, but we can't just live with that mindset.
eliquy@reddit
Dig UP stupid
SubstanceStrong@reddit
I just applied for a new job as a ”sustainability developer” for my municipality. I’m not hopeful about having much of an impact but it feels better to me to always be proactive and try to do something at least.
zaaaaa@reddit
Because going against it requires violence. The ruling folks, and by that i mean the ownership class, are not going to let go without a fight and up till now the masses of humanity have attempted (largely) legal means of change. This will fail when the people who don't want change write the laws.
Thats the other 1/2 nobody wants to talk about. It's not going to be easy, there's no guarantee of success, and even if it succeeds there's no guarantee that what comes next is any better.
ackypoo@reddit
solutions cost money, who is going to pay for it? we cant even get healthcare in the usa.
rekabis@reddit
Tell him that the Return on Research has absolutely cratered over the last 100 years, even after inflation.
I can’t remember the actual number, but it now takes almost $1,000 to create the same degree of “innovation” that $1 created a century ago.
arthousepsycho@reddit
The film “Don’t look up” is pretty much a documentary. People won’t acknowledge how bad things are till they are at their doorstep. Currently it’s easy for much of the world to pretend it’s not happening. That’s why they don’t like being told about it. Makes it harder to ignore.
When it is finally at their doorstep, I guarantee they will all be making TikTok’s screaming about “why did no one warn them”.
totalwarwiser@reddit
The whole world is not the US.
Aparently many countries in the world are making great strides toward sustainability and electrical cars and alternative energy sources.
Now, if you are in the US, yes, its going downhill, fast. The thing is that similar events have happened in other parts of the world and things went find. You will need to change your culture to deal with it thought.
HateHumansLoveDogs@reddit
better start thinking deep adaption
MTLHABSCANADIENS@reddit
I like how people assume we will fix all these massive problems looming over our heads when most of us still can’t handle different shades of brown in other people
Konradleijon@reddit
It helps them cope
N0N0TA1@reddit
Solutions are not the problem.
There is no shortage of solutions.
We just have to actually use them.
Muhbeeps80@reddit
Give the people something to hope for or build towards. There are currently no options for “optimism” other than some people’s blind faith in Ai. That could all change with different leadership and their differing focus.
are-e-el@reddit
I never bring up climate change talk at work
PrairieFire_withwind@reddit
The system itself that we have designed is the problem.
You are atill 'innovating' from within the paradigm you were raised with. Until you understand and can see the moving pieces of the system and how it is structured you won't begin to comprehend how different the silution to our problems needs to be.
Personal note we need to start over with egalitarian groips and that know how to limit their size as well as power aggregation within said group.
So yeah buddy you innovate until you die and your children have no future. Eécck u woke up in a bad mood today.
Shppo@reddit
tons of money invested in propaganda making people believe everything is fine
Amateur_TimeTraveler@reddit
Nah everyone else is just under reacting
Still-Improvement-32@reddit
You are not over reacting, the problem is most people under reacting or refusing to accept the truth. Many of us experience the same frustration but need to find a way to do what we can anyway.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
It is easier to consider everything just ending than to try conceptualizing what the future will really hold.
Especially in this period of history where we have the collective of human suffering and every threat to our survival at the tip of our fingers every time we take a bathroom break.
But none of us can predict the future. If your prediction is that life will just end you're probably wrong. The reality will be something other than what we can concieve now.
Either way I do think it is healthier to just focus on the present moment, especially in times where hope runs low, such as this era.
Whether the doomers or dreamers are predicting correctly is relatively meaningless, because as you said, this world is in motion and none of us can steer it. Just go smell the roses.
Key_Pace_2496@reddit
It's easier to consider everything ending because that is ultimately what happens. All life on this planet will just end at some point so I'm not sure why you're saying it won't.
In the history of the planet 99.999% of all of the species to have ever existed have gone extinct. It's never been a matter of if but when. So, when I say that my prediction is that "life will just end" I am actually correct...
Predicting the when is much more difficult. When will the human species go extinct? I can't tell you but it will most likely happen before the extinction of all mammals. The extinction of all mammals will most likely happen before the extinction of all animals. All animals will most likely go extinct before the extinction of all multicellular life, etc as you move from more to less complex life.
JacksGallbladder@reddit
Yes but if people really accepted these base facts this sub wouldnt even exist.
In the history of humanity there has not been an era where someone wasnt predicting the immediete end of times.
People here obscess over the end happening now or soon, and obsess over feeling powerless to it happening now or soon. I think a lot of folks cant accept that since they cannot control or stop most of the forces they believe are driving the end, they would live better lives in the present moment and have more to give the world in that way.
They think themselves into this frozen despair as if everything on the planet isnt going to end regardless, eventually.
Monkeefeetz@reddit
Yeah we just gonna ask chatgpt what to do.