PS5 Linux loader goes public, turning console into full Linux PCs — build script includes bootable Ubuntu 24.04 image, can output 4K games at 60 FPS
Posted by Durian_Queef@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 80 comments
cabbeer@reddit
damn, curious how it performs compared to a m1 mac mini
EitherAd1507@reddit
And BS like this is why PS5 gamers now need to live with call-home DRM...
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Blaming the people who want to use their hardware how they want for the actions of the company being ant-consumer...
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leave-the-multimillion-dollar-company-alone-leave-the-lady-be
RRicken@reddit
Bro, you are embarassing yourself with that joke of an argument.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
I'll bite. Why is that embarrassing and a joke of an argument? I would love to hear your very well thought out reasoning.
RRicken@reddit
Well, you're treating a closed ecosystem gaming console as if it were a general-purpose PC, which fundamentally ignores how this industry works.
Sony doesn't sell the PS5 as a blank slate computer for people to do whatever they want with it. The entire console business model is built around hardware subsidization. Sony sells a rather capable gaming machine at thin margins (sometimes at a loss, although this has changed this generation), but they don't do that out of the kindness of their hearts. The hardware is just a dedicated "portal" to their storefront. The only way the math "maths" is if you buy games, pay for PS Plus and participate in an ecosystem where they take a 30% cut.
If Sony sold a highly engineered piece of hardware at thin margins only for people to bypass the hypervisor, install Ubuntu and never spend another dime on software, it would be financial suicide. Whether you like it or not, they are not in the business of selling cheap subsidized Linux PCs for the public.
At the end of the day it's always legitimate customers that end up paying the price with stricter DRM and an ecosystem that is further locked down.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Holy shit, stop the presses. The PS5 Linux loader goes public and somehow the galaxy-brained take is "well ACTUALLY Sony needs to make money." Thank you. THANK YOU. I have been wandering this earth, lost, never once considering that corporations have financial incentives. You've changed me.
You then, and I need you to understand I read this three times because I genuinely couldn't believe it, admitted the PS5 isn't subsidized this generation and then kept the subsidy argument running like it was still alive. That's not a debate strategy, that's a Weekend at Bernie's situation. Your own argument died in paragraph two and you just kept dragging the corpse around like nothing happened.
Then you stuck the landing with "legitimate customers end up paying for it with stricter DRM." Incredible. Truly. Sony, a company with more lawyers than most countries have soldiers, looked at this situation, made a deliberate strategic decision to punish their entire user-base, and somehow that's the hackers' fault. By that logic, if your boss slaps everyone in the office because you were late, that's on you. Solid ethics.
And the actual argument, the one about owning hardware you paid for, you just didn't touch it. Didn't even wave at it on the way past. You wrote four paragraphs explaining how Sony's business works like the rest of us have never heard of a storefront, and then just stopped. Called it a rebuttal. Submitted it. Walked away.
I genuinely respect the confidence. The argument is completely hollow but you swung with all your force, and that counts for something.
RRicken@reddit
I don't think there is much point in continuing with this argument. This feels just like politics, you have your opinion and you won't budge no matter what I say. Fair enough.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not here on a crusade to defend a multi-billion dollar corporation, I just find the notion of "owning the hardware you paid for" a bit disingenuous when you believe you're entitled to turn it into a Linux PC just because you spent money on it. It's like going to a restaurant, pay just what it cost them to make your food and think that's perfectly fair.
But I'll still give you a thumbs up because your reply was genuinely well written and entertaining to read. Good stuff.
Scheeseman99@reddit
No it isn't. Going to a restaurant involves visiting a private business whose service provides you with a consumable food product.
An honest comparison is a person buying a flat head screwdriver from a hardware store and use it to shuck oysters. It's probably not food safe, the manufacturer likely didn't intend that use case, but it's not up to them how their product is used after they put it's ownership in the hands of a consumer in return for money. You know, buying a product, transfer of ownership, that whole thing.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Not to mention that they can't force me to eat it a specific way or tell me I can't do XYZ with it.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Genuine question. Do I or do I not own the hardware? If I do, why does Sony have a say with what u do with it?
What if Toyota said I can't drive my truck where I want because they don't make money on it? Would you not have a problem with that? I know I would.
panick21@reddit
Then maybe that should stop maybe. Specially if this is relevant after the frist year or so.
If the price is for people being allowed to use hardware they buy, then that's a price everybody should be willing to pay.
No it wouldn't, it would just mean they can't use that tactic to fight competitors. And competitors would have the exact same restrictions. And the market would be completely fair ...
Strazdas1@reddit
It should be illegal for Sony to implement DRM preventing people from installing their own OS.
ithinkitslupis@reddit
Or, you know, Sony could always just not do that. Console exploits aren't a new thing, the PS5 jailbreak scene is a very niche community in the grand scheme of things, and playstation is still very, very profitable.
kaden-99@reddit
Exactly, Sony could push an offical user accessible BIOS with custom OS support to PS5 and it still wouldn't hurt their business that much. It would just be a janky PC with no PS5 game support.
RRicken@reddit
It literally makes no sense for Sony to do that. They make money on selling software in the form of game licenses, not so much on the hardware. A PS5 that doesn't run its storefront and therefore does not generate revenue is bad business for them.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Yeah and how is that working out for them? Their incompetence and anti-consumer practices have them down billions of dollars in losses and market cap. So CLEARLY they know what's good for them right? Please.
RRicken@reddit
Huh? Last I checked they are doing quite well in terms of sales and have increased their market share due to Xbox fumbling hard.
BrushPsychological74@reddit
Yeah and Xbox does the same anti-consumer shit. This is no argument.
floorshitter69@reddit
Someone definitely buying a hundred of these to crypto mine.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
If it is possible to get it fully functional and swap the image with bazzite, I would 100% buy one just to make a steam machine.
Strazdas1@reddit
too late. Should have bought 3 years ago and did not allow it to update for this to work.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
There’s a firmware hack to downgrade.
Strange-House206@reddit
There is not currently.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
The article literally outlines how to do it using less outdated software. You just need a sitting ps5 rather than a specific firmware from 3 years ago.
Strange-House206@reddit
There is no way to downgrade ps5 firmware. Perhaps you don’t understand what that means.
g-nice4liief@reddit
Lol i am so going to buy a second hand ps5 and turn it into a server lol. Install proxmox on it and provision my vm's and i have my new gaming pc lol
Another one just to run my own local llm and another one to run hardware encoding/decoding on the fly as a nas.
hojnikb@reddit
you can save your money and buy bc-250. A lot cheaper, but requires a power supply and fans, as it's just a bare board with heatsink.
And already has a very strong linux support. And of course, it's based off PS5 APU with units cut down.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
The BC-250 is 40% slower and lacks power management so it is quite expensive to run.
hojnikb@reddit
it doesn't lack power managment. It's just not fully implemented. Besides, even PS5 has pretty high idle power consumption. Still isn't as bad.
As for speed; it has 2/3 of the GPU cores and 6 out of the 8 cores compared to PS5. And can be overclocked unlike PS5.
Oh and the most important part; its way cheaper and actually acts as a PC, unlike PS5 that needs a really old version of fw to even boot linux. BC250 boots just like any other pc.
For 100$, that these used to sell for, that was a lot of performance for the money.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
I know, I had one, sold it here on hardwareswap. There are no S states, no instant on, and overclocking requires serious cooling work as the stock cooler is really not enough to cool it quietly. It is functional hardware but the power consumption problem leaves you with some serious gotchas on sleep or expensive power draw.
hojnikb@reddit
There are some S states, as CPU throttles down, same with GPU with the right governor. Stock cooler is fine. 2 fans, optimized voltage curve will be good enough to clock it 4Ghz/2.2Ghz. It's not really efficient, that that's to be expected given the age of the HW. It's RDNA1.5/ZEN2 at the end of the day.
So for a budget gaming build or something that requires a decent GPU, it's a great choice, if you can get it cheap.
For a server or something that will sit idle most of the time, not so much. Plenty of other options out there for that.
g-nice4liief@reddit
Dang thanks for your comment. Getting that board with a power supply on ebay is just 150 dollars.
Only thing i would need is storage, ram and a (3d printed) enclosure.
Aemond-The-Kinslayer@reddit
It includes GDDR6 ram. Not as good as DDR5 for pc specific tasks, but it works.
g-nice4liief@reddit
Is it usable for things like lllm inference ?
ThatOnePerson@reddit
I've seen it on this benchmark list https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/discussions/10879
g-nice4liief@reddit
Thanks for the link. Pretty awesome it works!
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
Not the right gpu, and neither is the ps5
g-nice4liief@reddit
Had a slight hunch already. Thanks for confirming it ! I think running llama.cpp should be doable, but the performance won't be stellar probably
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
Rdna2 does not have the neural accelerators necessary. Only the ps5 pro has it.
LAUAR@reddit
You don't need neural accelerators for LLMs. I don't know how NVIDIA managed to convince so many people that they need tensor cores.
Strazdas1@reddit
if you want the training to finish before you retire you do need them.
cookieblair@reddit
You don't, but tensor cores are a lot faster at matrix math so it's recommended regardless.
LAUAR@reddit
Above all, you need VRAM capacity and bandwidth for fast LLM inference.
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
Please, I have an xtx and I can see how the quadro we have at work which is just about a 4060 with 20gb of vram runs circles around it.
g-nice4liief@reddit
If i'm correct so doesn't my current GTX 1080 Mobile that i use for running llama.cpp workloads.
But thanks for the headsup !
Seems like i need to do some research before jumping in head first.
hojnikb@reddit
https://github.com/akandr/bc250
check this out.
hojnikb@reddit
protip: you can use any 12V server power supply; they can be found on cheap and are very efficient/quality as well.
Ram is already on board (16GB), storage is M.2 gen2 x2, enclosure is honestly optional. You also need at least one 120mm fan for the heatsink.
g-nice4liief@reddit
That's awsome. Makes it also pretty upgradeable if i'm correct. Apart from the ram sadly. Thanks for the tips
hojnikb@reddit
I mean, you can upgrade the storage, but that's about it.
Still a damn good value, if you consider the whole system and current HW price. Makes for a very good budget gaming PC. Obviously not for 4k, but 1080-1440p should handle most games just fine with adjusted details/FSR.
Bubavon@reddit
I have the bc 250 and it's fucking awesome. For the price that is. Expect a lot of tinkering, including most likely ripping off the top of heat sink to zip tie a fan to the top haha Alternately you can 3d print a blower style cooler and attach to it. The first method seems most effective though, I tried both.
Also the ram in underneath the board. And its hot as hell, it will need some kinda cooling. Most attach a fan directly underneath, that's what I did. Mine now looks like a fan sandwich and works flawless.
g-nice4liief@reddit
That's awsome thanks for your comment. I saw that there are a few cases specific to the bc-bc-250 on makerworld.
A thing i would be interested in is creating a 3d printed server blade so that i can slot it in a 10" rack (that is also 3d printed) so that i can slot it in a bigger rack where other machines live.
A server rack in server rack lol.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
Those do not have strong support at all. Figuring out a cooling solution is also kind of a nightmare.
hojnikb@reddit
That's far from true. BC250 has a very strong linux support; other than VCN (video decodign) and some power states, everything works just like a regular PC. On Linux that is.
Cooling solution is also somewhat easy. You rip off the top fins and install one or two 120mm fans (F12 pros are good budget option).
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
What do you actually do with the server?
I always see these projects where people install other peoples software and then just do nothing useful with it.
Its the whole inappropriate use of a Raspberry pi thing again, no one seems to ever use it as intended instead stupidly installing NAS software for a day before putting it in a draw and never using it again.
Let someone buy it for there kind instead of turning it into eWaste with a lot of extra steps.
g-nice4liief@reddit
Hosting my own private cloud/public cloud using proxmox/kubernetes.
EitherAd1507@reddit
That you can't do on any of the endless amounts of mini Pc that cost half of what a PS5 costs...?!
g-nice4liief@reddit
They're pretty cheap where i am that's why i was opting for it compared to other more expensive options. But good point indeed.
haloimplant@reddit
why if you aren't using GPU they're just overpriced old zen2 PCs with poor compatibility, upgradability and repairability
jsheard@reddit
You'd have to find one that hasn't been updated since March 2022 for this to work.
g-nice4liief@reddit
Yeah good point. I do saw that a downgrade is possible, but only from selected firmware probably.
MissusNesbitt@reddit
Maybe now we’ll get some movement on enabling the encoders in the open source driver for this chip. Those old mining blades from ASRock would really benefit from access to the encoders.
Strange-House206@reddit
The community of people working in those blades is significantly larger than those working on the native ps5 hardware. Only chance is if the talent gap is greater.
TheRealTofuey@reddit
If I have legitimate PS5 files could I play them on this?
Loose_Skill6641@reddit
u can play Linux games
VisceralMonkey@reddit
The ps5 has to have not been updated for years apparently for this to work, so most people won't find it usefull.
Durian_Queef@reddit (OP)
klipseracer@reddit
This is major misinformation, delete this lol.
No modern console OS has allowed downgrading firmware using official tools. It's blocked by something called efuses, the chip literally fries a piece of itself inside to prevent ever going back. This has been around for multiple generations and requires major exploits which do not exist for the PS5.
hojnikb@reddit
PS4 could be downgraded to the previos versions for ages now. It always has two fimwares (the one you updated to and the previous one you had).
klipseracer@reddit
This requires physical mods if I remember correctly and only to the previous firmware, which is not going to help anyone.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
There is no way to downgrade the firmware on a PS5.
ithinkitslupis@reddit
No they can't. There's no way to downgrade.
Maurhi@reddit
That is complete bullshit, i bet the guy that wrote the article asked gpt, tom's hardware is a joke
VisceralMonkey@reddit
Doh!!!
I missed that! Thank you!
klipseracer@reddit
You should remove your edit, that is 100% untrue.
PhilSpencerP3@reddit
he article is incorrect, the github only mentions upgrading.
Myuzaki@reddit
Where did they get that from? Afaik, no one has figured out PS5 downgrading yet.
dparks1234@reddit
Did we ever get concrete info on the PS5 clock speeds? I know they’re technically dynamic and the CPU power draw affects the GPU power draw and vice versa. Cerny claimed they can both go full throttle 90% of the time but I want to know the actual benchmarks
hojnikb@reddit
3.5Ghz on the CPU and 2230Mhz on the GPU. The GPU itself (at least on BC250 which is the same ps5 apu) can be overclocked to 2400Mhz+ with good cooling and good examples.
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