The picture in the collage is of the State Circus in Sofia, which burned down in the 80s.
But yes, a fun fact - the building in Skopie is literally a 1:1 replica, that was built by the same Bulgarian architects. And yes, we all can easily understand the reason why the government hates that building and fucked it like that...
No, bro the vintage photo they used in the Macedonian site is of the Sofia Circus. I know my city, and that same area, and this same photo has always been on the internet. Also didn't you see the tram lines on the retro photo?
Or just zoom in and you'll see- Софийски държавен цирк
I probably downvoted by mistake, sorry about that.
Thanks for pointing it out and for explaining the background. You were right about the photo, and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify it. Since the buildings share the same design, it was easy to get confused about whether the picture was from Skopje or Sofia.
And yes, the state circus in Sofia burning down is one of the saddest memories of many people from Sofia and overall a very infamous event. So really now it's kind of crazy how the building had the same fate in Skopie too...
N.Macedonia is runner by ethno nationalistic government called Vmro, who installed Ancient Greek Hellenic statues and stiropore baroque facades back in the era when it's government showed animosity towards Greek and made the people hostile towards the resolution of the name dispute.
It's center was all reconstructed but the public transportation today, along with the quality of living of that country is rapidly falling behind other Balkan countries.
Vmro party has been back in power since 2024 and I believe today they rule all the country, and drastically falling the standards of living, with corruption and neglecting of public and state policies.
Cultures and regions overlap - they’re not exclusive to state. We were all under the Ottomans and states didn’t exist and that’s why the claims on ‘culture’ by the established states has created much misery and pain in the Balkans
Sharing culture is fine but the Balkan nationalist can’t comprehend that
Yep, they overlap, except for when a culture or kingdom or language or people appear in a region almost 1000 years after another and suddenly, 1500 years after their arrival, they claim their ancestors are these folks from 2500 years back Then it's not a matter of cultures overlapping, it's a desperate and pathetic attempt at claiming history that's irrelevant to you.
You sound upset maybe go outside or something - vitamin D works miracles
Not all us Macedonians claim to be ancient Macedonians - but we live in Macedonia and so did our ancestors from the very least 1500 years ago so we’re Macedonians like it or not
Because there is already a place with that name, you can't have two Albanians for example,and it's not just the name it's the history of the name
This question is no shade, just plain curiousity: is the reason why North Macedonians can’t ”claim” Macedonia because of the fact that they speak a Slavic language? Is it their ancestry? What is it?
They can't because Macedonia is part of Greece since the first Balkan War, no one can deny that half their country is in the geographic area of Macedonia but that doesn't mean because they live in the same area makes them ancestors of an ancient people specially in their case that they are Slavs that came almost 1.500 after the first reports of Macedonians, So geographically half of the country is North Macedonia while the people are not Macedonians by the definition, the are slavo-macedonians
I say Serbs should start identifying actively as Illyrians, claim historical names of the area together with their identity, rewrite their historical books and propagate internationally that Albanians came from Caucasus, while the Serbs are descendants of Illyrians. Maybe then, Albanians will be able to grasp the situation 🤣 but they can’t right now. Especially that one called Ujemegaz here in Reddit is really obsessed, throws mud on Greeks whenever he finds the chance
There's Luxembourg the country and Luxembourg the Belgian region, there's a Banat in both Romania and Serbia. Baranja/Baranya is split between Croatia and Hungary....
There are plenty of examples of two places with the same name, and Macedonia is one that makes sense, since Macedonia isn't only the name of the ancient Greek kingdom, but also the name of the region.
Should Romania demand Moldova changes it's name to Eastern Moldova? The majority of the Moldovan region, as well as it's capital Iasi, is in Romania.
Because it’s not about the name really, it’s about the identity. Vergina sun featured in Macedonia’s fist flag, school text books depicting a greater macedonia including Thessaloniki, state media and political leaders promoting the concept of direct ethnic descent from ancient Macedonians, contrary to historical consensus, monumental statues and buildings in Skopje, basically state funded propaganda promoting all kinds of bullshit. It was an identity conflict, not just the “name”. Talking about the “name” like it had to do only with the “name” is intellectually dishonest.
You’ll tell me, they can do whatever they want, they are a sovereign nation. Of course they can. They can build as many statues, name airports and rewrite textbooks. But those actions have meaning in the context of international relations. When those actions are seen by a neighbour as a systematic attempt to steal its historical heritage and imply a territorial claim on its actual land, that neighbour will see it as a hostile provocation.
Yes but they are friendly (not all) countrys and with all the respect to this regions, not many of them have such a history as Macedonia, and if we look most of the simulation regions most of them have taken North - South, From Sudan to Dakota most places that share the area doesn't have the same names. And we all know that Romania is just South Moldova
they are tight with Serbia and EU enlargement is something it depends on mutlifactors including itself with it's very strict criteria. I don't believe that's happening because Serbia also is not going there in any scenarios. but this is for different thread opinions.
Theres no another way. If you mean like Moldavia no it's not possible as MK is more Serbian than anything which complicates the issues, because as I said it's tied with them more than with anyone while pretending they want in eu
that's not possible friend. even if things in Balkans change borders won't get to be changed for the next 40-50 years we can't predict. MK also has a significant Albanian population as you already know making it a problematic country as it borders both Albania and Kosovo too
The funny thing is people pretend that Skopje statues have been there since the beginning and is rooted in Macedonian nationalism when in when fact the project was built as a middle finger to Greece for breaking the Interim Accord Agreement:
In a December 2011 judgment, the International Court of Justice (ICJ)—often referred to as the World Court or "The Hague court"—ruled that Greece had breached the Interim Accord of 13 September 1995.
The ICJ Ruling (2011) The case, Application of the Interim Accord of 13 September 1995 (the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia v. Greece), centered on Greece's decision to block Macedonia's invitation to join NATO at the 2008 Bucharest Summit.
Cour internationale de Justice +1 The Verdict: By a 15-to-1 vote, the Court found that Greece violated Article 11, paragraph 1 of the Accord. Under this article, Greece had promised not to object to Macedonia's membership in international organisations as long as it was referred to by the provisional name "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM). Greece's Defence: Greece argued its actions were a response to Macedonia's own alleged breaches of the Accord (such as using ancient symbols like the Vergina Sun). However, the ICJ rejected these as valid justifications for blocking the NATO bid, noting that Macedonia had largely ceased those specific violations years prior. Result: While a major diplomatic win for Macedonia, the ruling was largely symbolic. The ICJ did not order Greece to change its stance or impose penalties, and the blockade on NATO and EU accession continued until the Prespa Agreement was finally ratified in 2019.
Anyway it’s something that worked to our benefit since it drastically boosted tourism while the Greeks and Bulgars alike seethed behind their keyboards
I have this strange feeling that Yugoslavia or a different version of it will return when ex-yugo (balkan) countries realize we only have each other when shit hits the fan and Croatia realies Europe doesnt care for Croatia, Russia doesnt give a fuck about Serbia and Arab world doesnt give a fuck about Bosnia.
Yugoslavia would be great if we had more fair share of power, like for example capitol cycling to Zagreb, Sarajevo, Ljubljana, Podgorica, etc. every few years.
I mean, we are all speaking very similar language and we have similar mentality.
Nationalists and religious fanatics destroyed that great concept in war,
now I am afraid it cannot be returned. At least not in this century.
dwartbg9@reddit
The picture in the collage is of the State Circus in Sofia, which burned down in the 80s.
But yes, a fun fact - the building in Skopie is literally a 1:1 replica, that was built by the same Bulgarian architects. And yes, we all can easily understand the reason why the government hates that building and fucked it like that...
alekstravels@reddit (OP)
It's an older photo of the Universal Hall of Skopje:
Photo found here: https://motika.mk/bogatata-istorija-na-univerzalnata-sala-vo-skopje-koja-po-poveke-od-50-godini-dobi-novi-temeli/#
Video of the building, burning in 2024: https://kanal5.com.mk/gori-univerzalna-sala-vo-skopje/a634497
The both buildings look very similar and I didn't knew that there is another similar building to the Universal hall - interesting.
Also very sad that the both buildings had the same fate...
dwartbg9@reddit
No, bro the vintage photo they used in the Macedonian site is of the Sofia Circus. I know my city, and that same area, and this same photo has always been on the internet. Also didn't you see the tram lines on the retro photo?
Or just zoom in and you'll see- Софийски държавен цирк
alekstravels@reddit (OP)
I probably downvoted by mistake, sorry about that.
Thanks for pointing it out and for explaining the background. You were right about the photo, and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify it. Since the buildings share the same design, it was easy to get confused about whether the picture was from Skopje or Sofia.
Sorry again, my bad.
dwartbg9@reddit
And yes, the state circus in Sofia burning down is one of the saddest memories of many people from Sofia and overall a very infamous event. So really now it's kind of crazy how the building had the same fate in Skopie too...
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
karma has eaten them
shortEverything_@reddit
Nope we’re still fine and sipping on our coffees and eating shopska salad from the garden
You making it like we’ve become Uganda for telling Bulgaria to fuck off when Bulgaria itself is not a success story
No-Championship-4632@reddit
It's this one nowadays:
Early-Show2886@reddit
Wasnt once skopje also written: Skoplje ? and Shkup and Üsküp?
BardhyliX@reddit
Shkup is how Albanians refer to it.
slavicbrewmaster@reddit
It’s because it is how you call the city in other languages: Serbo-croatian, Albania, and Turkish. So still to this day depending on the language.
Like Istanbul is also Tasrigrad, Konstantinoupoli for example
Early-Show2886@reddit
We call it often Stambul the old name too.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
N.Macedonia is runner by ethno nationalistic government called Vmro, who installed Ancient Greek Hellenic statues and stiropore baroque facades back in the era when it's government showed animosity towards Greek and made the people hostile towards the resolution of the name dispute.
It's center was all reconstructed but the public transportation today, along with the quality of living of that country is rapidly falling behind other Balkan countries.
Vmro party has been back in power since 2024 and I believe today they rule all the country, and drastically falling the standards of living, with corruption and neglecting of public and state policies.
shortEverything_@reddit
Living rent free in your head.
Maybe you should check under your bed for “ultranationalistic” VMRO members
Apfelstudel-1220@reddit
I think it is Bad if people Are nationalistic and want a Region and Culture to be their own. What is next? The old Capital of macadon?
I Never understood why north macadonia dont use their own Culture and history to Build a Country on. 3 decades later and just dont work out.
shortEverything_@reddit
Cultures and regions overlap - they’re not exclusive to state. We were all under the Ottomans and states didn’t exist and that’s why the claims on ‘culture’ by the established states has created much misery and pain in the Balkans
Sharing culture is fine but the Balkan nationalist can’t comprehend that
OhWellImRightAgain@reddit
Yep, they overlap, except for when a culture or kingdom or language or people appear in a region almost 1000 years after another and suddenly, 1500 years after their arrival, they claim their ancestors are these folks from 2500 years back Then it's not a matter of cultures overlapping, it's a desperate and pathetic attempt at claiming history that's irrelevant to you.
shortEverything_@reddit
You sound upset maybe go outside or something - vitamin D works miracles
Not all us Macedonians claim to be ancient Macedonians - but we live in Macedonia and so did our ancestors from the very least 1500 years ago so we’re Macedonians like it or not
Ujemegaz@reddit
The name dispute is bs. Macedonia should have not compromised.
Substratas@reddit
Agree. I never understood why the name was such a big deal tbh.
Pipimer@reddit
Because there is already a place with that name, you can't have two Albanians for example,and it's not just the name it's the history of the name
Substratas@reddit
This question is no shade, just plain curiousity: is the reason why North Macedonians can’t ”claim” Macedonia because of the fact that they speak a Slavic language? Is it their ancestry? What is it?
Pipimer@reddit
They can't because Macedonia is part of Greece since the first Balkan War, no one can deny that half their country is in the geographic area of Macedonia but that doesn't mean because they live in the same area makes them ancestors of an ancient people specially in their case that they are Slavs that came almost 1.500 after the first reports of Macedonians, So geographically half of the country is North Macedonia while the people are not Macedonians by the definition, the are slavo-macedonians
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
I say Serbs should start identifying actively as Illyrians, claim historical names of the area together with their identity, rewrite their historical books and propagate internationally that Albanians came from Caucasus, while the Serbs are descendants of Illyrians. Maybe then, Albanians will be able to grasp the situation 🤣 but they can’t right now. Especially that one called Ujemegaz here in Reddit is really obsessed, throws mud on Greeks whenever he finds the chance
Adept-One-4632@reddit
Pretty sure some Serbian nationalists beat you to it
Ujemegaz@reddit
🇦🇱🩷🇷🇸
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
🇦🇱❤️🇷🇸❤️🇲🇰❤️🇬🇷
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
However the national hero of MK, Georgi Delchev and other revolutionaries were speaking and writing in Bulgaria. language.
In MK officially everything Bulgarian is denied from the state.
imborahey@reddit
There's Luxembourg the country and Luxembourg the Belgian region, there's a Banat in both Romania and Serbia. Baranja/Baranya is split between Croatia and Hungary....
There are plenty of examples of two places with the same name, and Macedonia is one that makes sense, since Macedonia isn't only the name of the ancient Greek kingdom, but also the name of the region.
Should Romania demand Moldova changes it's name to Eastern Moldova? The majority of the Moldovan region, as well as it's capital Iasi, is in Romania.
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
Because it’s not about the name really, it’s about the identity. Vergina sun featured in Macedonia’s fist flag, school text books depicting a greater macedonia including Thessaloniki, state media and political leaders promoting the concept of direct ethnic descent from ancient Macedonians, contrary to historical consensus, monumental statues and buildings in Skopje, basically state funded propaganda promoting all kinds of bullshit. It was an identity conflict, not just the “name”. Talking about the “name” like it had to do only with the “name” is intellectually dishonest.
You’ll tell me, they can do whatever they want, they are a sovereign nation. Of course they can. They can build as many statues, name airports and rewrite textbooks. But those actions have meaning in the context of international relations. When those actions are seen by a neighbour as a systematic attempt to steal its historical heritage and imply a territorial claim on its actual land, that neighbour will see it as a hostile provocation.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Vergina sun 🤣
Yavannia@reddit
What do you want to call it?
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
Yes 😔😖
Pipimer@reddit
Yes but they are friendly (not all) countrys and with all the respect to this regions, not many of them have such a history as Macedonia, and if we look most of the simulation regions most of them have taken North - South, From Sudan to Dakota most places that share the area doesn't have the same names. And we all know that Romania is just South Moldova
Ujemegaz@reddit
We would not mind two Albanias 😏
victimized777@reddit
Wait when they get to the EU, they will surely prosper after that
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
Skopje will never get to the EU
Fragrant-Sugar226@reddit
Don't be pesimistic. Skopje will join the EU.
One way or another.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
they are tight with Serbia and EU enlargement is something it depends on mutlifactors including itself with it's very strict criteria. I don't believe that's happening because Serbia also is not going there in any scenarios. but this is for different thread opinions.
Fragrant-Sugar226@reddit
Well, there is another way, however, not every macedonian will like it.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
Theres no another way. If you mean like Moldavia no it's not possible as MK is more Serbian than anything which complicates the issues, because as I said it's tied with them more than with anyone while pretending they want in eu
Fragrant-Sugar226@reddit
Who said they will join us voluntairly?
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
that's not possible friend. even if things in Balkans change borders won't get to be changed for the next 40-50 years we can't predict. MK also has a significant Albanian population as you already know making it a problematic country as it borders both Albania and Kosovo too
Fragrant-Sugar226@reddit
Well, you can not predict everything.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
I mean what do you predict and you have some info or?
Fragrant-Sugar226@reddit
Well, if things in Macedonia do not get to the level of a standard European nation. Well.... You shall see.
shortEverything_@reddit
The funny thing is people pretend that Skopje statues have been there since the beginning and is rooted in Macedonian nationalism when in when fact the project was built as a middle finger to Greece for breaking the Interim Accord Agreement:
In a December 2011 judgment, the International Court of Justice (ICJ)—often referred to as the World Court or "The Hague court"—ruled that Greece had breached the Interim Accord of 13 September 1995. The ICJ Ruling (2011) The case, Application of the Interim Accord of 13 September 1995 (the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia v. Greece), centered on Greece's decision to block Macedonia's invitation to join NATO at the 2008 Bucharest Summit. Cour internationale de Justice +1 The Verdict: By a 15-to-1 vote, the Court found that Greece violated Article 11, paragraph 1 of the Accord. Under this article, Greece had promised not to object to Macedonia's membership in international organisations as long as it was referred to by the provisional name "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM). Greece's Defence: Greece argued its actions were a response to Macedonia's own alleged breaches of the Accord (such as using ancient symbols like the Vergina Sun). However, the ICJ rejected these as valid justifications for blocking the NATO bid, noting that Macedonia had largely ceased those specific violations years prior. Result: While a major diplomatic win for Macedonia, the ruling was largely symbolic. The ICJ did not order Greece to change its stance or impose penalties, and the blockade on NATO and EU accession continued until the Prespa Agreement was finally ratified in 2019. Anyway it’s something that worked to our benefit since it drastically boosted tourism while the Greeks and Bulgars alike seethed behind their keyboards
CommunicationTop8777@reddit
Culturicide, urbicide
ThePurpleKing159@reddit
I have this strange feeling that Yugoslavia or a different version of it will return when ex-yugo (balkan) countries realize we only have each other when shit hits the fan and Croatia realies Europe doesnt care for Croatia, Russia doesnt give a fuck about Serbia and Arab world doesnt give a fuck about Bosnia.
Old_Passenger7@reddit
Yugoslavia would be great if we had more fair share of power, like for example capitol cycling to Zagreb, Sarajevo, Ljubljana, Podgorica, etc. every few years.
I mean, we are all speaking very similar language and we have similar mentality.
Nationalists and religious fanatics destroyed that great concept in war,
now I am afraid it cannot be returned. At least not in this century.
SansBouillie@reddit
People used to call WW1 "the war to end all wars" and guess what happened 20 years later
Mako2401@reddit
Just existing as a Macedonian is a win. The video is fantastic. Long live Macedonia.
alekstravels@reddit (OP)
Thank you, u/Mako2401