[-]

Epsilon_void@reddit

I don't understand some of the rude comments here. Whenever there's a post about, say GTK4, or systemd, and people complain about the shortcomings of them, the response is "If you don't like it, just fork it, go back to an older version!" yet when someone does do that in their free time, the response is negative? I personally won't use this, but that doesn't matter. Someone likes a certain piece of software enough to keep it alive and that's commendable.

[-]

truupe@reddit

The systemd fanboys come across as more obnoxious than its detractors.

[-]

xkcd__386@reddit

they don't just "come across"; they are, but in a snooty, holier-than-thou, long-suffering-sigh, kind of way

cue downvotes from the afore-mentioned fanboys I guess :)

[-]

Drew19914@reddit

good point. The problem with "just fork it", though, is that 99.9% of the time people bite off way more than they can chew, and the fork ends up being just the name of the project changed, the .doap, README, etc. And then folks realize maintaining the fork is WAY more complicated than they realized, and it just gets abandoned.

[-]

nelmaloc@reddit

Goomba fallacy.

[-]

MustUnderstandTrains@reddit

You're mystified why programmers are upset that other programmers are programming.

The answer is the social layer.

[-]

Nuzid@reddit

The social layer? Where in the OSI model is that? /s

[-]

2rad0@reddit

yet when someone does do that in their free time, the response is negative?

This site is a federation of propaganda miniforums, logic rarely exist in its bot activity so don't put too much value on the scores and opinions that rise to the top. There is no shortage of brainwashed cocultists here attempting to disseminate their delusional realities where maintaining a windowing toolkit used by old programs somehow equates to hate. Look at the original post about this from the other day, downvoted to 0 yet this one is highly rated(>80%), coincidence or just timing issue?

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

This submission has been removed due to receiving too many reports from users. The mods have been notified and will re-approve if this removal was inappropriate, or leave it removed.

This is most likely because:

Your post belongs in r/linuxquestions or r/linux4noobs
Your post belongs in r/linuxmemes
Your post is considered "fluff" - things like a Tux plushie or old Linux CDs are an example and, while they may be popular vote wise, they are not considered on topic
Your post is otherwise deemed not appropriate for the subreddit

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[-]

tristan957@reddit

It's funny how the venn diagram of people who hate GNOME, GTK > 2, Wayland, and systemd is a circle.

[-]

hendricha@reddit

I take that very personally, because I hate what gnome has become, but I quite like both GTK2 and 3 (not 4/libadwaita) and systemd and wayland

[-]

vintologi24@reddit

It does make things spicy and interesting at least.

[-]

Sol33t303@reddit

I mean, I'm happy for any applications that happen to rely on GTK 2 to still get security updates? I don't see the problem in that.

Seems like a handy thing to put in appimages and flatpaks for older versions and applications.

[-]

SpaceCadet2000@reddit

And not only security updates, but to maintain it so it still compiles with modern toolchains would be useful too.

Legacy support is highly underrated.

[-]

DerekB52@reddit

I don't know if some random fork of GTK2 is enough for me to feel confident about the security of any software still running on GTK2. Those packages are probably running with lots of old libraries.

[-]

Sol33t303@reddit

If you wrap it in enough bubble wrap, flatpak would be a good start.

I more so happy to hear that there should be one less reason for old apps to break on modern systems. E.g. maybe this fork could add Wayland support (idk if it's available in gtk2 but I'd guess not).

[-]

araujoms@reddit

maybe this fork could add Wayland support

You must be joking. You think the kind of people that refuse to use GTK3 want anything to do with Wayland? They'll use X until they die. Or more likely its MAGA fork, XLibre.

[-]

Sol33t303@reddit

I honestly don't see why you think that.

"The kind of people who refuse to use GTK3" Are who? The developers of programs that have probably been abandoned or who can't be bothered to rewrite their program to use a new library?

I don't see what this would have to do with users, they are system libraries...

At most I have seen people care about QT vs GTK due to theming between the two and consistent window decorations. Apart from that I have not seen a single user care about what UI libraries their programs use.

[-]

araujoms@reddit

This was posted in the Devuan user forums. Devuan is a distro which was created to avoid systemd. They are just reactionaires.

[-]

Sol33t303@reddit

Yeah because he's a Devuan dev? I don't know where else I'd expect them to announce a new project... Its also probably good to warn users that GTK2 will likely be replaced with GTK2-ng in the future.

I don't really see the issue with people making a new distro if they don't like systemd. It has genuine problems with it like most software does, people choose to use the software they like better (like how most of us are on Linux instead of windows).

[-]

araujoms@reddit

Go on then, ask him what he thinks about adding Wayland support: https://devuanusers.com/thread-gtk2-revival-thread--80

I'll grab the popcorn.

[-]

Sol33t303@reddit

I try to keep my online presence minimal so I'm not interested in making a user account, things are easier to manage that way I find.

I'm sure it's something the developer has considered, and that they have decided it's either viable or it's not whatever the reason, if it is we'll see it at some point. I doubt I have any valuable input there.

[-]

untrained9823@reddit

Don't forget about Rust hate.

[-]

pseudonym-161@reddit

It’s the licensing concerns. Which are valid, but unlikely to become an issue.

[-]

FriendlyProblem1234@reddit

It’s the licensing concerns. Which are valid, but unlikely to become an issue.

Loads of people complains about sudo-rs being MIT, while ignoring that sudo itself has been MIT since forever (actually, ISC, but that is basically the same license as MIT). This is just hate for the sake of hating.

[-]

Booty_Bumping@reddit

Indeed, the overall GPL-ification of the ecosystem doesn't change much from the existence of a few replacements. People seem to assume that coreutils is bigger than it actually is, but quite a lot of other non-GNU system utilities have always been independent projects that use a BSD-style license.

Perhaps the thing that surprises people is that SQLite3 uses a public domain license, which is even more lax than MIT as it does not require any attribution. It also has a closed development process that rarely ever accepts patches from outside contributors. And the most unusual quirk of their licensing is that most of its test suite is completely private and proprietary, and they provide a proprietary 'pro' version that includes an implementation of at-rest encryption support.

I would love to see more copyleft in some of the areas it's currently missing, but you generally can't change people's minds about what OSS license to use, people have already made up their minds decades ago. But on the bright side, pretty much the entire community has unified on licenses that are both OSI approved and FSF approved (both free & open source), and the copyleft requirements that do exist are generally respected by the community.

[-]

Puzzleheaded_Web9584@reddit

Valid in what sense, though? If you are on arch, you should run expac and grep how many free licensed packages (MIT, Apache, BSD, ISC, Zlib) are being used.

On my system, thats more than half the packages. From mesa to amdgpu to just so many things use free licenses.

But you never hear that being a issue under update posts on these projects.

There is litreally zero commercialization value to uutils and dozens of such projects. But there is to many of the c projects that use free licenses, like mesa.

[-]

Albos_Mum@reddit

Plenty of folk dislike Gnome but are fine with the other three, though

[-]

w2qw@reddit

I mean I feel like GTK > 2 and Gnome are the same thing.

[-]

anotheruser323@reddit

It's funny how the venn diagram of people who are fanboys and who don't know anything about anything includes morons like you.

[-]

algaefied_creek@reddit

Well, GTK over 2 and KDE > 3.5 (TDE) crowds are vocal.

MATE when riced is an amazing GTK3 desktop, and Linux mint does wonderfully with Cinnamon also

[-]

DM_Me_Linux_Uptime@reddit

My gripe with Gnome is that its the default in many distros, and many people trying to escape from Windows 11 will be greeted with a worse version of Windows 8.1 UI and their kneejerk reaction would be "this is terrible" and go back to Windows not learning about alternate DE's or adapting to the workflow Gnome is going for.

Also people who would think "Hey, using this OOBE fix to install a local account by going to a command prompt mid install in Win 11 is awful. Lemme go Linux", only to have to run a few gsettings commands to get something as basic as a minimize and maximize button is dumb. Expose them in the settings app ffs!

[-]

tav_stuff@reddit

The people that hate Wayland are usually a different crowd

[-]

flying-sheep@reddit

No, that comment is about hate.

The handful of people who still can't use Wayland because of some legacy software dependency or niche hardware setup or so are normal about it and don't hate Wayland.

The haters are the exact same kind of people that hate all the other things listed. They also used to hate pulse audio, but when everything switched to pipewire’s PA layer, they had nothing to hate anymore.

[-]

oxez@reddit

I love pulseaudio/systemd/pipewire/gnome/kde/gtk/qt and all the likes

And yet I won't switch to Wayland until I *absolutely* have to, because I, myself, have no real benefit to switching to it.

Even as someone who had to deal with modelines back in the day, going from xfree86 to xorg, it just always worked for me, for 25+ years, I see no reason to swich until (like I mentioned above) I am literally forced to. I don't feel like testing basic UI features again, so whenever I switch, it'll be all ironed out.

[-]

flying-sheep@reddit

So you don't hate it, which is what I said.

[-]

tav_stuff@reddit

I know. I just disagree. I deal with a lot of Wayland haters, and they typically don’t hate on GTK>2 (first time I’m even hearing about this), systemd, etc.

The other guy is just trying to post a message for the sake of posting a message

[-]

greenknight@reddit

Exclude the NVIDIA whiners and the trend is the same.

[-]

Additional-Milk1426@reddit

there are some real reasons to not like or use those projects, the one im not sure why people dont like is GTK < 2, even if you hate corpo influence, i dont get it.

[-]

DadoumCrafter@reddit

GTK+ 2 was focused on standard computer interface guidelines, compact, and was arguably simpler in design (no CSS theme, widgets' minimal size = natural size, containers define the size of their widgets more directly and simply). Also, it features widgets that GTK 3 removed (like handles and toolbars).

That's what I like from GTK+ 2, but there are also things to like in GTK 3 like Wayland support, the switch to Cairo, the more complex allocation system is more flexible, the renaming of functions to reflect the support of RTL languages…

Personally I think there are things to like in both, an since some GTK+ 2 users that switched to GTK 3 now feel with GTK 4 doesn't fit with their vision, I think there is a place for another GTK+ 2-like library with modern features support.

[-]

Morphized@reddit

GTK4 on its own is basically just GTK3 with plugin support

[-]

Sataniel98@reddit

Not in my experience.

I really don't like Gnome for many reasons. Mostly because it refuses to adopt standards and makes the life harder for developers who need to take it into account even though they work on projects that should be completely DE-agnostic. And I wouldn't ever want anything to resemble Mac OS, which is a really ugly and bad OS from a terrible company. I guess it's to be expected that Gnome and GTK "haters" are the same people considering they are closely associated projects.

If you ignore that they do completely different things and look at the principles, systemd is the complete opposite of Gnome. The world of init systems was a wild west-like, scripted mess with bad performance before systemd. systemd replaced flimsy scripts with a solid and performant C code base. Much more important than the technical aspect was the social aspect that it guarantees a standard. As a developer, you don't have to take into account that any init system can do whatever it wants anymore, you can just take the presence of systemd for granted and build your software on top of that assumption without any need for case differentiations and additional testing in different environments. Even the so-called "systemd-free" distros almost always use parts of the suite, such as systemd-logind (elogind as a standalone project). Without it, most modern desktop environments (including KDE Plasma and Gnome) wouldn't even work because they see it the same as me and just depend on systemd. I usually replace grub with systemd-boot too because it's just much less over-engineered.

[-]

Mordiken@reddit

"How dare you not like something I like" exclaimed the cow, visibly perturbed by the lion's unwillingness to partake in the feast of fresh grass and spring blooms that dotted the field.

[-]

spicypsudo@reddit

What they hate is Red Hat and The Linux foundation gaining more corporate control over Linux, and there is a lot of good reasons for it. Red Hat been sued for race-based hiring quotas and now has internal quotas for how much vibe coding I you use in their projects. The Linux Foundation uses only about 2-3% of funds on Linux.

What we are going to see in the coming years is a split between establishment distros (Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora) which use SystemD/Wayland/GNOME and indie distros that use xlibre/some other init system (Devuan, Artix, Openmandriva).

[-]

JonBot5000@reddit

Plenty of us hate Gnome purely because we prefer KDE's more Windows-like paradigm over Gnome's more Mac-like interface. All the other toolkit/middleware stuff you mentioned is just "that's fine, whatever works".

[-]

FriendlyProblem1234@reddit

Plenty of us hate Gnome purely because we prefer KDE's more Windows-like paradigm over Gnome's more Mac-like interface.

Is this a valid reason for *hate*...?

[-]

NotQuiteLoona@reddit

It's not. But hate is irrational in itself. Not liking something like that could be rational, hate never.

[-]

nightblackdragon@reddit

You can customize GNOME to be more Windows like just like you can customize KDE to be more Mac or whatever like as well.

[-]

FryBoyter@reddit

Plenty of us hate Gnome purely because we prefer KDE's more

Anyone who hates something just because they prefer something else should really see a doctor. More specifically, anyone who truly hates any piece of software should really seek medical help. Because that’s not normal.

But fortunately, these days on Reddit, far too much is simply labeled as hate when it isn’t hate at all. In my opinion, for example, vim is the worst editor there is. That’s not hate, but at most a dislike. Furthermore, it is a subjective opinion.

[-]

gtrash81@reddit

Oh, than you never saw really poorly designed and written software.

[-]

clearlybreghldalzee@reddit

It's pretty normal to hate a software you are forced to use that's unreliable and waste your time . I'm forced to interact with such piece of shit java based app written in 90s everyday at work. It's stressful when the job is time critical and this software decides to shit the bed at 2am.

[-]

tristan957@reddit

You hate GNOME because you have a preference? Do I hate men because I prefer women?

[-]

JonBot5000@reddit

You people replying are so dramatic. Sorry that I wasn't specific enough for you. I hate using Gnome, ok? I don't actually have legit hate in my heart for any piece of software like I have true hate for murders, rapists, pet abusers, and other actual evil things.

Let's all settle down and realize we're just bullshitting on the internet. Jeez

[-]

DerekB52@reddit

I'll have you know I'm a GNOME hater but have nothing against your other 3. I am still running X on my workstation, but I am probably switching to Sway this year.

[-]

khsh01@reddit

Speak for yourself, I only hate gnome based distros. Gnome can be useful sometimes. At least on my tablet.

[-]

void4@reddit

wayland tries to replace passing the absolute coordinates with dozens of ad hoc protocols which are being discussed to death for years

systemd tries to replace the imperative syntax of shell scripts with hundreds of declarative options and parameters, many of them are with their ad hoc syntax as well

Yeah, I wonder why those people don't like that?

[-]

Such-Historian335@reddit

It's already explained to which you quoted, there are people who prefer simpler things and more control.

[-]

Squalphin@reddit

It’s also a very insignificant tiny circle, or things would look very different right now.

[-]

Natural_Night9957@reddit

The bad attitude of some guys here shows that Linux as FOSS and ethos is pretty much dying because the awesome community the create the ecosystem is getting old and the and the old guys were corrupted by Corpo values.

[-]

Infiniti_151@reddit

Why?

[-]

SpaceCadet2000@reddit

Isn't legacy support a good thing?

I can pick up a win32 binary from 1995 and it will likely still run on Windows 11. Why shouldn't we have that in Linux, if there are developers willing to support it?

[-]

Mordiken@reddit

Because some people are of the opinion that GTK ecosystem peaked during GTK 2 and GNOME 2.

Is that not allowed?

[-]

Infiniti_151@reddit

Those guys just don't want to move to Wayland

[-]

Mordiken@reddit

Be that as it may: Are they not allowed?

[-]

Infiniti_151@reddit

Everything's allowed. But it's just stupid.

[-]

ipsirc@reddit

to run gkrellm

[-]

Oflameo@reddit

Linux is so old now that there is now retro Linux.

[-]

SpaceCadet2000@reddit

Retro linux is cool. Every now and then I still spin up a VM with Red Hat 5.1 or so, just to look at AfterStep with xsnow.

[-]

ipsirc@reddit

https://github.com/ghaerr/elks

"What is ELKS?

ELKS is a project providing an early fork of the Linux OS for systems based on the Intel IA16 architecture (16-bit processors: 8086, 8088, 80188, 80186, 80286, NEC V20, V30 and compatibles). Such systems can be ancient computers (IBM-PC XT / AT and clones) as well as more recent SBCs, SoCs, FPGAs, as well as modern 80386+ x86 desktops. ELKS supports networking, graphics, ia16-elf-gcc, OpenWatcom C and its own native C compiler, and installation to HDD using both MINIX and MSDOS FAT filesystems."

[-]

anotherface@reddit

Linux predates most Redditors at this point, who weren't around in 1992.

[-]

truupe@reddit

I would wager a guess that the 2.6 kernel predates most Redditors.

[-]

mccord@reddit

I yearn for xfree86 and trying to get the modeline right for my monitor.

[-]

anh0516@reddit (OP)

I awear there was some other project that is using its own internal fork of GTK2 or something, bug I don't remember what it was.

[-]

phylter99@reddit

I think the article mentions other forked projects.

I don't understand the need for this though, especially with the fact that there are not many projects that depend on it. It seems easier to just upgrade to GTK 3.

What's next? Are they doing a GTK 1 revival?

[-]

mrtruthiness@reddit

It seems easier to just upgrade to GTK 3.

While GTK3 isn't yet deprecated, it only receive annual "maintenance" releases. GTK4 is the current toolkit. And when GTK5 is released (?2028?), GTK will no longer support X11.

Perhaps the treadmill is unappealing?

[-]

phylter99@reddit

Fair point.

[-]

FLMKane@reddit

Why not? It's free software

[-]

MetaTrombonist@reddit

Xlib forever!

[-]

NightH4nter@reddit

What's next? Are they doing a GTK 1 revival?

jokes on you, https://devuanusers.com/thread-gtk2-revival-thread--80?pid=697#pid697

[-]

phylter99@reddit

I have learned my lesson. I'll never underestimate the open source world again in this way. It is a nice thing about open source though.

[-]

mrtruthiness@reddit

Recall the Mate began as a fork of GNOME 2 ... which used GTK2. Eventually, though, it migrated to GTK3.

[-]

alerikaisattera@reddit

Ardour

[-]

C0rn3j@reddit

If only this energy was spent on migrating GTK2 projects away.

[-]

Alarmed_Contest8439@reddit

this project feels like the work windows developers have to do to keep it compatible with ancient software

[-]

idontchooseanid@reddit

No not really. Windows developers had some idea after Win 98 that their interfaces have to be future-proof, especially after NT (which got merged with consumer code on XP and became a fork of server on Vista). You see extra considerations in Win32 API for future proofing like this: https://faultlore.com/blah/c-isnt-a-language/#case-study-minidump_handle_data

GTK and especially GNOME has a strong dislike putting limitations on their decisions and APIs and do not include any future-proofing. So doing this is actually more work than keeping compatibility with old Windows software.

[-]

LvS@reddit

GTK and especially GNOME has a strong dislike putting limitations on their decisions and APIs and do not include any future-proofing.

You cannot future-proof interface APIs.

The desktop space itself, hardware, and software engineering principles evolve too quickly to make that feasible.
You always end up with an outdated system that doesn't support modern standards. That's true for GTK as well as Qt, Microsoft's system du jour, Apple's ~~Carbon Cocoa~~ UIKit or Java's whatever system. Even the web, which has billions of dollars injected into it, is constantly removing old stuff.

GTK actually handles this exceptionally well because those 25 year old GTK2 applications can all still run unmodified if you compile them, yet there's a modern version in GTK4 that supports recent features.

[-]

araujoms@reddit

Lol. He's free to waste his time on whatever nonsensical project he wants, and I'm free to mock him.

[-]

AmarildoJr@reddit

A comment on the forum may be perfect for this situation:

Unlike milk software does not magically degrade with time. Software is just a bunch of instructions.

There are too many kids today that do not appreciate the efficiency and stability of a well defined, well tested and well understood essential piece of software like a GUI toolkit.

These days GUI toolkits are more of a do everything "OS" within the OS that does 3D, networking, database and who knows what.

All well and good in some cases perhaps, but for the most part people tend to be more concerned about the "look shiny" attitude on top than something robust under the hood.

Will the work on gtk2-ng be worth it? Personally I believe not, but I sure take my hat off for those that try making what was good better, instead of all the new mess with all the fact stuff that anyone barely understands why work in the first place.

[-]

Mordiken@reddit

These days GUI toolkits are more of a do everything "OS" within the OS that does 3D, networking, database and who knows what.

These days the "GUI toolkit" is actually just a Chrome window with the UI disabled, rendering what's essentially a "modern web page" styled with CSS...

Only "modern web pages" are now called "Web Apps" because they only use HTML to bootstrap a JavaScript UI library like React/NextJS or Vue, and that's actually responsible for building and managing the DOM, thus making Java doesn't look efficient.

[-]

AmarildoJr@reddit

You're right if you're talking about Windows, but is this the case on Linux too? I would really like to know. Because as far as I'm aware all DE's are native.

[-]

araujoms@reddit

If software didn't degrade with time this project wouldn't be necessary, you could keep running the EOL code forever. But you know that's not doable.

If it were a very simple piece of software, that didn't depend on hardware and OS, you could nevertheless keep it running indefinitely with minimal maintenance, no further development necessary. But something as complex as a GUI toolkit? There's absolutely no hope. It can appeal to a couple of grumpy old men, that will keep using it until they die. In the meanwhile, the rest of the world has already moved on.

[-]

tseli0s@reddit

"If you don't like it, fork it. That's the power of open source"

Forks it

"Waste of time, I'll mock you"

?????????????

[-]

araujoms@reddit

I must have missed this clause of the GPL that says I'm not allowed to hurt your precious feelings.

[-]

tseli0s@reddit

You missed the psych ward actually

Go touch grass

[-]

Epsilon_void@reddit

Such an unnecessary and rude comment.

[-]

truupe@reddit

Imagine the incongruent vacuousness of someone mocking something that they claim is a waste of time.

[-]

truupe@reddit

While I'm not a gnome user...prefer xfce and kde, I do love Devuan. So more power to them for working on GTK2.

[-]

LurkingDevloper@reddit

I don't use Devuan, but I appreciate someone keeping the old Unix init system alive in Linux as an option. Like MATE, if someone wants to fork older versions and keep them running, I have no qualms with it.

[-]

Mordiken@reddit

The fact that your comment is marked as controversial tells you all there is to know about the state of /r/linux...

[-]

truupe@reddit

I hear ya.

[-]

aitbg@reddit

That's pretty cool, I think it's good when end users have more options available to them

I can be normal about this and not get angry that people aren't using Linux exactly the same way I am

[-]

deyhateuscustheyanus@reddit

Of course they downvote you. This sub is hot garbage.

[-]

aitbg@reddit

The Linux should be consolidated like Macos and Windows people do not like freedom of choice

[-]

S7relok@reddit

Wow. Alternate init based distro trying to reinvent a old fashioned wheel.

Good luck with the months of losing time for absolutely no utility

[-]

Such-Historian335@reddit

You're also free to do stuff that don't have any utility, like the comment I'm replying to.

[-]

S7relok@reddit

My comment was less than 10s of writing. Undead gtk2 is months of work for... We don't know why...apart maybe running dinosaur era laptops?

Not the same amount of time used. But another proof for me than the so called "alternatives" are just Dark Sasuke guys ran projects with nothing useful than reinventing wheels that already rolled and been flattened

[-]

Such-Historian335@reddit

Yeah, they've only been working on it for about a week. I'm wondering do you often make commentary like this? Has it been months or years? Mocking other's hobbies, that'd be much more useless.

[-]

Worldly_Disaster_933@reddit

Cool, this is a great feature for the MATE desktop. It should be developed in GTK2 to maintain a classic style.

[-]

Natural_Night9957@reddit

Time to switch over Devuan to get my functional Free Pascal install.

[-]

IngwiePhoenix@reddit

Why, though? o.o I thought GTK3 was backwards compatible - so I am probably missing something...?

[-]

ipsirc@reddit

I thought GTK3 was backwards compatible - so I am probably missing something...?

You missed this page: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk3/migrating-2to3.html

"GTK 3 is a major new version of GTK that breaks both API and ABI compared to GTK 2.x"

[-]

Potential_Penalty_31@reddit

Why?

[-]

ipsirc@reddit

for using gkrellm

[-]

FryBoyter@reddit

Everyone needs to have a hobby.

As for me, I won't be using this project because I don't use any programs that still rely on GTK 2.

[-]

Business_Reindeer910@reddit

i was still kinda using hexchat until halloy fixed a bug i had. Although now there's a new hexchat fork zoitechat.

[-]

FryBoyter@reddit

It feels like it’s been forever since I last used HexChat. Even back when the client was still being actively developed.

For one thing, because I’ve rarely used IRC for years now, and at some point I switched to a different IRC client. I can’t really say why anymore.

Thanks for mentioning ZoiteChat. That might be of interest to a few people I know who used HexChat or perhaps still do.

[-]

We know!

Yesterday's post: GTK2 is getting resurrected How hard is it to type GTK2 in the search box?

[-]

mistahspecs@reddit

Lol I completely forgot about devuan