Why do Russians like this color?
Posted by Entire_Judge_2988@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 111 comments
Posted by Entire_Judge_2988@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 111 comments
Several_Fruit_688@reddit
Because there Russians
Genpatz8@reddit
Cos Bakelite kinda just ends up like that.
If you don't know its like an early polymer, closer to resin.
AyeBraine@reddit
Just a nitpick. The polymer that the USSR used for AK magazines and other furniture is not like the OG Bakelite (which is hard, brittle, and crumbly). This one is also a phenolic resin, but it's reinforced with glass fibers, it's called AG-4.
As I read, they experimented with dyeing it early on, but found that the undyed version is the strongest and obviously doesn't add dyeing costs.
Genpatz8@reddit
Oh that's really cool! So why is the general term bakelite?
MiroslavusMoravicus@reddit
Also the Trabant (East German car) is said to be made from "bakelite" in the Czech Republic. Its kind of a running joke.
Genpatz8@reddit
Wait really?
Dats crazy
AyeBraine@reddit
I think it's what stuck. I don't know for sure. I just saw that gun enthusiasts in the US adopted this name for simplicity.
But it's not like, a severe misconception. It's not the old-timey Bakelite like in telephones or control knobs, but it's from the same family, a phenol formaldehyde resin. Critically, it's reinforced with long glass fibers, which makes it strong and resilient in addition to being rigid. In fact I just found out that old molded Bakelite also used fillers, but it was just cellulose (wood) or asbestos fibers. Hence the marbled appearance that both have.
Fiber reinforced plastics are common — for example, power tool housings are often made from them, to easily survive being dropped or hit.
Some1_Strange@reddit
Asbestos, the wonder material! Only if it didn't cause cancer.
poobumstupidcunt@reddit
Cancer wasn’t the main issue with asbestos, it was asbestosis, which is essentially the small fibres of asbestos completely shredding your lungs
locolarue@reddit
Just don't damage it and breath it in and it's not a problem.
Genpatz8@reddit
I see...
Bakelite, bakelite, everywhere lol
Paladin_G@reddit
The same reason that Kleenex is a term used to describe tissues generally even if they aren't Kleenex brand.
Genpatz8@reddit
Good point!
Key-Lifeguard7678@reddit
AG4 is a type of Bakelite. It’s just one of many official formulas for that stuff.
Compression-molded plastics such as Bakelites remained in use much longer than injection-molded plastics in the USSR because all their tooling was made for that stuff.
AyeBraine@reddit
I agree! And thanks for context.
But I think it's better to caveat that it's not the usual Bakelite, especially when the question is "what is this stuff and why is it orange?".
It can be misleading to just say "it's made out of PP" when it's a kevlar fibre-reinforced PP, or, to give a more extreme example, saying a high-performance bike or racing car hood is made out of epoxy (and omit the carbon fibre). We do call them "carbon" for short, not epoxy.
Anyway, when I grew up, I still saw, touched, and used some stuff made of standard molded Bakelite (apparently reinforced with cellulose pulp), and I saw it crack and crumble, so for me personally the difference is big. AK mags are stronger and quite unique I think, so I was very interested to find out what they're made of.
Larperat0r@reddit
Woe, green bakelite be upon ye
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/573e80_739c727be73640818c7197240ce85823~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1280,h_717,al_c,q_90/573e80_739c727be73640818c7197240ce85823~mv2.webp
FZ1_Flanker@reddit
It’s a shame it’s not as good for weapon furniture, because that stuff looks rad as fuck.
atomiccheesegod@reddit
Also real Bakelite stinks really bad unless it’s sealed or painted
SlappyMcPherson@reddit
This guy gunstocks
RaHarmakis@reddit
In Soviet Russia, gunstocks this guy!
Leather-Brief3966@reddit
Where I come from you gotta pay for someone to do that to ya
MezzanineMan@reddit
Yeah they dyed some bakelite furniture green, and after finding them more brittle decided to give them as awards to 'elite' border guards
Distantstallion@reddit
Bakelite used to be reinforced with asbestos
zorniy2@reddit
I honestly thought it was wood. I only ever see pictures of it, never actually up close. So it's actually Bakelite? I have only seen black Bakelite on pan handles and electrical things.
RandomKnifeBro@reddit
There are purple and light blue bakelite drums at one of the companies i worked at. Looks really weird.
Remnant of soviet manufacture, even stamped with CCCP.
Genpatz8@reddit
What really???
RandomKnifeBro@reddit
Yeah, loads of old stuff still works. Stupid to replace it if it does the job.
I have equipment in my shop with an ASEA swastika on it, they stopped using that logo when the Germans started stirring up shit in the 30's.
The thick steel plates used to put over holes from road construction in Norway were cut from a nazi warship they pasted in WW2 and were used until fairly recently. Some might still be in use.
Genpatz8@reddit
Woah so cool!
VariousCheezez@reddit
If you think that's crazy, there are still nazi marked welding cylinders in use today.
Genpatz8@reddit
What really?!?!
RandomKnifeBro@reddit
Seen a few over the years surprisingly common in europe.
But i suppose considering how many they made, and the fact that they stirred up shit over the entire continent, it really shoulst be surprising they left them behind here and there. Steel is steel after all.
DickSwordOnDiscord@reddit
this is thermoresin. Not true brittle bakelite like that stuff the Germans used for various things during ww2
Genpatz8@reddit
It's called Bakelite, but according to someone below, it's a polymer infused resin. No idea what that means tho
AyeBraine@reddit
Yeah the handguards and stocks on Soviet AKs are all wood (very sturdy plywood to be exact), unless it's 1980s on, then they're increasingly black polyamide plastic.
As an example of the contrary, East German AKs (they were called MPi-K) had plastic stocks and handguards, but they're not this color and use a different polymer.
skipperseven@reddit
Only some of them - most do have wood furniture.
whenwillthealtsstop@reddit
The stocks were wood, this is just a prototype. The beech and birch wood they used (and what you're used to seeing) can be quite light and reddish
supermutant207@reddit
It's not actually Bakelite. It's a polymer-infused resin called AG-4S.
Patient-U47700@reddit
I’ve never seen a bakelite dust cover before lol
fendtrian@reddit
AG-4 is peak resin art
DickSwordOnDiscord@reddit
bro is anyone ever going to mention the bakelite top cover? like wtf that thing is do sexy!
SaltyCanuck76@reddit
They start out yellow and turn orange over time
IcyRobinson@reddit
Please... Not the dust cover...
whenwillthealtsstop@reddit
Apparently this was a prototype design
https://x.com/TheGreyPatriot_/status/2047379424941637806
Antiaiden21@reddit
Thats really interesting, I dont see the appeal of a bakelite dustcover unless it was to help with weight
Wojtyniak1@reddit
Look at it, why wouldn't they?
hgwxx7_foxtrotdelta@reddit
Isn't it possible to create Bakelite in black color? LOL.
Tobi_1989@reddit
They probably don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's a natural color of a plastic which is cheap, reasonably weather stable and, most importantly, was easy to manufacture using machinery available in 1970s USSR.
Entire_Judge_2988@reddit (OP)
No lacquer in the Soviet Union?
wojtekpolska@reddit
why would you add lacquer to a gun meant to be as cheap and reliable as possible
Entire_Judge_2988@reddit (OP)
Well, I don't think having an orange gun in the forest is a good idea. It might be fine in the desert.
Snoot_Boot@reddit
This is a country's that's currently still using it's soldiers like canon fodder. They don't camouflage their soldiers so they can live longer, they do it so it takes longer for them to die
Kjartanski@reddit
When used by a Soviet Conscript it will not stay shiny for long
AyeBraine@reddit
I mean they cleaned their guns just like in any other military, and were grilled for clean undercollars (white strips that protected the collar of the uniform, constripts washed and sewed them on every day). In any case, only the magazines were orange polymer, the stocks and handguards were yellow wood..
TheDesertFoxq@reddit
Worked fine in Vietnam
Key-Investment-3864@reddit
It was an average soldier’s assault rifle, not a ghillie’d up sniper that needs to stay hidden at all costs lol
davewave3283@reddit
Because gold is too heavy duh
bazilbt@reddit
It would probably chip off. It was designed to be inexpensive and durable, not to be attractive.
AyeBraine@reddit
Note that in the USSR proper, only the magazines ended up orange (made of glass-reinforced phenolic resin called AG-4). Even the pistol grip was a darker brown shade.
AFAIK it's the other socialist or USSR-aligned countries that experimented more with making various furniture from resin. Soviet guns that have a lot of this resin are often prototypes — it's the thermoset polymer that was available to designers, so similar to today's 3D printing. The Soviet military only transitioned to all-polymer (handguard and stock) in the 1980s, with the AK-74M — and they didn't use reinforced Bakelite anymore, but a type of polyamide instead. I guess they weren't content with AG-4 furniture's durability.
I also want to point out that you make it sound like using this plastic is the result of the USSR being technologically limited... But this is literally early 1960s. It's pretty cutting edge. And successful: AG-4 mags last forever, essentially don't deteriorate, and are strong AF. Remember that the M-16, introduced in the late 1960s, was considered weird and space age because it used polymers.
Kagenlim@reddit
The Dragunov MA was also an early polymer reciever rifle too
https://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/russia-assault-rifles/dragunov-ma-2/
Really ahead of it's time
Consistent_Wash1935@reddit
Only choice of color in communism so we had to like it. It was a planned economy.
Unicorn187@reddit
The question has been answered, but just to add this, there are AKs that have green furniture and mags. They were retirement gifts for border guards and also had a small engraved plaque attached to the receiver.
GrimmurThingz@reddit
because bakelite good
estromale@reddit
we're lucky it isn't an [uglier color](
762x38mmR@reddit
ah yes, the babyshart camo paintjob
Combat_wombat605795@reddit
And that’s by choice not the nature of the chemical
Braydorw@reddit
RAL 8000 is hot, people just can’t appreciate art when they see it
Salt-Wish5140@reddit
I for one, think poop brown is good for camo, but the MP5 isn't my first choice for hiking in the woods, mountains, or desert where that would be needed.
tostuo@reddit
Used in moderation maybe. If you offset it with black or something else. But this MP5K looks like it was built out of baby food
enfersijesais@reddit
Mashed peas and mustard
Tobi_1989@reddit
The color is okay, but on that mp5k it looks like it was applied by a paint roller meant for interior walls.
ihatelifetoo@reddit
I like this color
dirtfxther@reddit
Huh I’ve never seen a Bakelite dust cover before
Little_Whippie@reddit
That’s just how Bakelite looks
NYC19893@reddit
But AK mags aren’t bakelite
zorniy2@reddit
I thought Bakelite is black.
jedburghofficial@reddit
It gets dyed black when it's molded. There are other colours, but I suspect black was popular because it hid up the distinctive bakalite look.
Vac1911@reddit
The Soviets found that adding black dye to Bakelite possible but made the material weaker and more brittle.
UAGhostUA@reddit
Oh man that dust cover looks cursed
Mysterious-Plan93@reddit
My question is how will the ATF ever regulate people making their own magazines & parts out of easily recyclable or discardable Bakelite?
richiemendoza@reddit
How does positraction on a Plymouth work? It just does.
duga404@reddit
TIL that there were polymer dust covers for AKs. I'm guessing they turned out to be bad and were never adopted?
Testabronce@reddit
They like Evangelion that much
shift_master@reddit
Who doesn't?
bownt1@reddit
who doesnt like bakelite color?
TokyoFlip@reddit
Because it IS a color. You even been in Siberia?
Yeah.
AyeBraine@reddit
For what it's worth, that's what Siberia itself looks like.
bmbreath@reddit
I assume because bakelite is cheaper than wood, but looks close enough to wood in order to not look too wierd. Wood was still pretty much the standard at this time for stocks and handguards.
Also it's just aesthetically pleasing. It's like a mix of marble and wood, almost looks like a burl.
EdgarAllanZero@reddit
Looks good in the snow and their broken down infrastructure??
Jim556a1@reddit
Kinda cool dust cover.
GesuMotorsport@reddit
Bakelite tickles my brain just the right way
algee1234@reddit
I don’t know but I like what they like
Brandon_awarea@reddit
Because it’s fucking cool as hell man
vortigaunt64@reddit
Cheap
NthngToSeeHere@reddit
Why not? Besides, it looks like wood at a time when wood was the norm.
ShiftyLookinCow7@reddit
Because it looks sick as hell
ThundahMuffin@reddit
Is that not just the color of bakelite?
JonnyV42@reddit
Always liked the purple bakelite
supermutant207@reddit
It was originally supposed to be a different color, but the dye weakened the material. Here's a video on the development of the polymer furniture: https://youtu.be/iYD77lYq87I?si=AmRZBA0PrqiR3vsU
TheRumrunner55@reddit
The Amber room …it calls to them
Dear_Mention_3305@reddit
At least it's not Room 101...
SebWeg@reddit
It’s was not about liking. It’s was about what’s available and somewhat practical. All kinds of goods like Telephones etc. in the UDSSR, and the associated countries like GDR etc. came in 2 maybe 3 colorways max. We had the green telephone when I grew up which was the most thought after color compared to the other options in beige or brown.
Oatbrain@reddit
wait, y'all don't ride with bakelite?
NoSuddenMoves@reddit
There's Americans that love bakelite too!
HATECELL@reddit
Dyeing polymers makes production more complex, raises costs, and worst case it can lead to a lower quality polymer. Since polymer production and manufacturing was still kinda new, and the bakelite didn't look too ugly (especially if you're used to wood) they decided to leave it this way rather than change the process only for aesthetic gains
They did try a dyed glass-filled polyamide plastic later on, but the black dye combined with the fiberglass in direct sunlight and resulted in a purple-ish color. Since quality was still within specification they left it this way, and those parts are now known as "plum" furniture
Rockfish00@reddit
it's a nice color
Modern_Doshin@reddit
Next you're going to tell me the Chinese like redish orange stained stocks
tvtgvrdedredwxr@reddit
Because soviets couldn't dye bakelite, since it would loose it's properties and become brittle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5gvHuimig
ManFaceMan69@reddit
Wood good
P1xelHunter78@reddit
A wood dust cover would be a fever dream
ManFaceMan69@reddit
True
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