What do you guys think of this?

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No-Penalty-7506@reddit

I think Hagia Sophia should have stayed as a museum however these American senators are just saying dumb shit to get evangelical voters behind them and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

but since when evangelicals care orthodox or catholic churches ? for them they not real christians. Only for them evangelicals are true christians.

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frex18c@reddit

It is extremely important church, one of the most famous in the world if not the most famous. And existed long before the church split. So it's origin is just as much theirs.

Personally as atheist from Czechia i don't give a shit, but we can all agree Constantinople sounds way cooler than Istanbul. And those OG Turkish conquererors knew it and that's why they did not rename it.

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No-Penalty-7506@reddit

The habitants of the city called it Istanbul even back in the Byzantine empire and Atatürk was a revolutionary so he didn’t want it to be named after an archaic emperor. I too think Constantinople sounds cooler but Istanbul is pretty unique and I don’t think we should change the name again.

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frex18c@reddit

I think even Istanbul is originaly from Greek, isn't it? Changing city names is weird, one of the few changes I like is Leningrad into Sankt Petersburg, nice to hear the Dutch roots.

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wikimandia@reddit

You mean changing it BACK to St Petersburg

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No-Penalty-7506@reddit

It translates to “in to THE city” which just shows how big of a deal Constantinople was back in the day.

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frex18c@reddit

Ah, did not know that. Nice meaning. It was "THE city" for everyone in Europe, Northern Africa and Middle East for centuries.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

and why radical evangelicals have interest in it?

do not slander turks. ok?

look to your own history.

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frex18c@reddit

As I said, it is their heritage. It belongs to them just as much as to catholics or orthodox. The church was built long before the christianity split. It is important church for all christians.

And exactly where did I slander Turks? And not sure what you mean about our history. Especially when compared to yours...

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Are you crazy? It's not like it's part of the radical evangelical heritage. Are you alright? I'm blocking people like you.

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BigDummy1286@reddit

Evangelicals also have a hard on for Netenbozo and his crew…maybe they need to read New Testament closely and see who the Pharisees were….

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North-Steak4190@reddit

Portugal in Ask Balkans … checks out nothing wrong here!

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BigDummy1286@reddit

Honorary Balkans, no? 😂

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North-Steak4190@reddit

Exatamente amigo!

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Early-Show2886@reddit

I bet they don't even know where Hagia Sophia is on a map.

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BigDummy1286@reddit

I am sure they have no idea.

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Wait a minute: as I understand it from reading this, the man believes Hagia Sophia was a greek church until 2020 and then converted into a mosque? Good grief...doesn't he know that the church was a mosque from 1453 and then a museum from 1935 until 2020?

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CheesecakeAndy@reddit

Was not it mosque for hundreds of years already?

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Aperturee@reddit

was a church for hundreds of years too

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CheesecakeAndy@reddit

well yeah before that. none of that are recent developments and surely Lindey Graham has nothing to do with either. hard to justify why it needs urgent fixing for that matter either.

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Aperturee@reddit

Hagia Sofia being turned back into a Mosque from a Museum is actually a recent change. Happened about six years ago if I'm not wrong, after decades and decades of being an irreligious building?

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CheesecakeAndy@reddit

I was under the impression that it was always a mosque, but more like a museum in a mosque, and now it has become mosque-mosque.

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Aperturee@reddit

No, it was strictly a secular Museum gifted by the previousn Caliph to the State (if I'm not wrong), for like 90 years or so. Was a big deal when they undid it 6 years ago.

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Aferimus@reddit

United States dont care about Christianity, they are busy catering to Israel and will go even against the Pope if it helps Israel. So my question is how is this helping Israel

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Adventurous_Weight78@reddit

The Israel is trying to target Turkiye next. So this might be a way to start destroying their image first.

Also, can we start "Return the Americas to the Native Americans act"?

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scanfash@reddit

Could do the same for Turkey, return Anatolia to the natives

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Adventurous_Weight78@reddit

Who are the natives of Anatolia?

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Background_Bee_713@reddit

Not the Turks

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Ourtimehascome2485@reddit

[ Removed by Reddit ]

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Automatic-Sea-8597@reddit

The US even recently destroyed a synagogue in Teheran.

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BloodStarvedLeopard@reddit

I think it's fucking stupid, not because I don't care about the Hagia Sophia or about Erdo's religious nationalism, but because it's probably the least important problem facing the world and the USA as a whole. Just a limp distraction from the energy crisis and Epstein and all of that.

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Sir_Potato2000@reddit

No, this politician is completely ignorant of the history of the place he is talking about and is only engaged in populism. This place has passed from one faith to another, and not only to Islam.

537–1204: Built as a Christian cathedral (Orthodox) in the Byzantine Empire.

1204–1261: Had an apparition in the Catholic cathedral during the Latin Empire of Constantinople (Fourth Crusade).

1261–1453: Returned to Orthodox church.

1453–1931: After the fall of Constantinople, Sultan Mehmed II converted it into a mosque.

1935–2020: Founder of modern Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, converted the building into a museum.

Since 2020: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan supports the indication of the return of Hagia Sophia as a mosque.

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Jack55555@reddit

The orthodox chasm didn’t happen back in 537 so it was technically “catholic” back then too, since that was the only flavor of Christianity back then. Arianism was already almost wiped out I believe.

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Substantial-Peach-90@reddit

The Orthodox Church formal name is Orthodox Catholic Church.

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Aperturee@reddit

and my toilets formal name is The Throne of Broken Gods, that don't make it true though

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Substantial-Peach-90@reddit

No you don’t understand, because you’re choosing to stay completely ignorant instead of educating yourself.

Both Roman Catholics and eastern Orthodox Christians consider themselves both "catholic" (universal) and "orthodox" (true-believing). These are not just names, they are significant theological and ecclesiastical terms. You’re just completely ignorant and confuse the name with the theological term.

Before the schism the church wasn’t Catholic in the way we use “Roman Catholic” to name Catholic Christians today. It considered itself Catholic and orthodox in the terms I explained.

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Aperturee@reddit

No, you don't understand, because you're choosing to stay completely ignorant instead of understanding parody.

Both the Eastern Orthodox Christians and my Toileters consider themselves universally true (true believeing). These are not just names, they are significant theological and ecclesiiastical terms. You're completely ignorant and confuse the name with the theological term.

Before the great poop, the toilet wasn't universal in the way we use "Orthodox Catholic" to name Orthodox Christians today. It considered itself Catholic and Orthodox in the terms I explained.

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Substantial-Peach-90@reddit

Listen my smoothbrain friend I understand you’re a Christian Roman Catholic Croatian. I’m not attacking Catholics and I’m not making a statement of what is the true church. I’m explaining church history from a neutral point of view. Go play some video games to relax my friend

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Aperturee@reddit

Listen my smoothbrain friend I understand you're a Poopy Brained Regard. I'm not attacking Orthodoxy and I'm not making a statement on what is the true church. I'm explaining toilet history from a neutral point of view. Go play with your peanut and relax my friend.

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scanfash@reddit

Actually it The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic name (this is the official title of the EO)

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Substantial-Peach-90@reddit

It has been a Christian church from 360-1453

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Christian? Why, dies any other religion have churches 🤣

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Substantial-Peach-90@reddit

Not really although you could argue that perhaps church can be used in a different context other than the Christian. But “Christian church” is just used like that often, even in ecclesiology, anyone is free to say church or Christian church, doesn’t matter:P

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Lothronion@reddit

537–1204: Built as a Christian cathedral (Orthodox) in the Byzantine Empire.

It had been a church since the times of Constantine the Great. It is just that the older building got destroyed when a riot caused a fire and it spread from the adjacent buildings to that church, most likely during the Nika Riots of 532 AD.

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Sir_Potato2000@reddit

I'm not defending Islam because I'm an atheist, but this place does have a complicated history. This politician's words are simply populism based on faith to earn free support points

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Lothronion@reddit

It is probably a part of how American Protestant extremism is on the rise these years. Which is rather funny, given how there are cases like Donald Trump having altercations with the Roman Pope, and Pete Hegseth’s pastor targeting his following for the sake of promoting Evangelicalism. I do not know about March Lynch’s religions positions (the politician in the post) but if that were to actually happen, I would not consider it impossible that there would have been some pushback against it becoming Orthodox Christian once more, in favour for a more American denomination.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Ataturk turned it into a museum to appease the west. Turks realized that the more they conceded, the more Greece demanded. So they turned Haghia Sophia inti a mosque to give them a message.

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Bdtkg_61@reddit

Atatürk did not do it to appease the West lmao.

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gushi1-@reddit

Agree, it funny though it was commissioned/built by a Illyrian/Albanian Justinian the Great and Turned into a Museum by A Turk(Albanian Blood).

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

Justinian was albanian? Hahahahaha, I thought albanians were trolling when they're claiming Jesus and Obama too were albanian, guess not lol.

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gushi1-@reddit

Could that be one of the reason that Serbs helped bring down it walls? You guys don’t like us, because you guys can’t be like us. We have history you have a few NBA players.

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

Sure, that's why you keep taking our churches in kosovo and converting them to mosques, very rich history indeed.

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gushi1-@reddit

They were our churches before yours. Just stating facts. And fyi I think they should go back to the Albanian Catholic Church or Albanian Orthodox Church, not become Mosque if that’s actually happening. I don’t mean the newer church that were built by the Serbian Orthodox Church. Talking about the old one. The once that are truly Serbian Orthodox should stay that way.

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

They were literally built by Serbian nobles, you need to get back on those pills asap boy, you're starting to lose it.

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gushi1-@reddit

Sorry there is a big architecture difference between Catholic and Orthodox buildings.

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gushi1-@reddit

History states he was Albanian. Multiple historian agree.

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

Riiiighttt, and Constantine was Serbian, stop embarrassing yourself man.

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gushi1-@reddit

Constantine the Great was Albanian, once again that what historian state

Moesia Superior.[20][21] His father was Flavius Constantius,[j] an Illyrian[25][26][22][k] or, according to his nephew, Julian The Apostate, a Thracian.[28] His original full name, as well as that of his father, is not known.[29][30] His praenomen is variously given as Lucius, Marcus and Gaius.[30][l] Whatever

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

Bhhahahahaha

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gushi1-@reddit

We have some Popes Also,

The four Popes of Albanian origin Pope Saint Eleutherius (175-189) Pope Saint Caius (283-296) Pope John IV (640-642) Pope Clement XI (1700-1721)

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gushi1-@reddit

FYI Mother Theresa was Albanian even though she was born in Macedonia.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

He wasn't Serbian, for that we are sure at least.

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Professional-Fee-488@reddit

Look mom I'm projecting!

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Ujemegaz@reddit

A true Albanian would have turned it into a casino or bouling center and make money out of it 🤣

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gushi1-@reddit

I like old buildings, I would have left it alone tbh.

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btweenthatormohammad@reddit

Rare erdoğan w, I'm not even a Muslim but I support Hagia Sophia being a Mosque again.

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sTaLiN112219@reddit

Larp

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IkmoIkmo@reddit

American's are a joke. This building has been a mosque since 1453, or 600 years. That's longer than the United States exists.

But if he wants to give back his country to the native americans, then I'd grant him the church back, too. If not, he's a hypocrite that we don't need to take seriously.

That having been said, I much prefer Ataturk's approach to have it be a museum. To me it's an embarassment to see this building as a mosque, every time I step in the angle towards Mecca not lining up with the angle of the building screams 'this is not a mosque' to me. But for an American to turn this into a polarizing piece of garbage geopolitics is such a joke, Turkey has been Turkish for 600 years and its buildings have changed, America has as little say in it as the Native Americans have in about the US, or even far less so.

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Observe_Report_@reddit

350,000,000 are a joke?

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IkmoIkmo@reddit

Well so far at least 2, Mark Lynch and you for not getting the point and arguing silly semantics. Idk yet about the other 349,999,998.

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Observe_Report_@reddit

It’s a really really big country. For instance, if you drove from the northernmost town in New York to Charleston, South Carolina, it would take you 16 1/2 hours. For perspective. You’re taking one example from South Carolina, generally considered a very Christian and religious state, and I’m fairly certain most people in SC have no idea about the history of Turkey and the Orthodox Church and everything you are referencing.

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IkmoIkmo@reddit

My brother I was just joking around a bit. I've been to the US and I've seen how big it is, just yesterday I saw a video that said if you overlap the US you can put one end in London and the other in Teheran (you can try it on https://thetruesize.com/ if you want).

I'll change my words to 'Mark Lynch is a joke'. An appliance repair guy running for senate on a foreign policy plan in Turkey that he has absolutely no clue about and isn't relevant for improving the lives of his would-be constituents.

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Observe_Report_@reddit

Yeah, I guess we all have our share of wackos. The US senator in South Carolina the repairman is referring to is a closeted homosexual, for some more perspective on South Carolina. This dude chose the most random of subjects and to think that voters would give a shit about it! I would file this under Bread and Circuses.

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IkmoIkmo@reddit

Oh sheesh didn't even know that... that's wild

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b0sanac@reddit

I think he means the people who represent Americans are a joke.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

I prefer it to be a mosque, so that Greek priests stay away from it. Sincerely, Negovani gang 🤣

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Kosher_Pork_12@reddit

The Hagia Sophia should be either a church or a museum, but as an American, don't we have um... bigger fish to fry? People can't afford basic living expenses, unemployment is skyrocketing, death is coming for us all, and your concern is a building in a country named after thanksgiving dinner? Sheesh.

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ZHadzic@reddit

Cheap propaganda to get some votes. And most probably suporting agenda of some other loby which has nothing to do with the USA and is harmfull for USA and Europe. However USA and Europe known very well which values are foundation of our civilization and one of them is diversity.

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boltforce@reddit

Man balkans_irl is running for office in South Carolina.. weird times we living..

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Altruistic-Board5322@reddit

Το χωριό καιγότανε κι η Μαριγώ μαμιοτανε.

Translation: The village was burning but Marigo was getting fcuked.

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Puzzleheaded_Sail729@reddit

"That's nobody's business but the Turks"

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jaleach@reddit

Ahh, yes "The Muslims". That monolithic group that schemes from a secret facility located underneath Mecca. They're like SPECTRE from the Bond movies.

He can get away with saying something like this because most people in the base (evangelicals) are ignorant about Islam. Some of them might have a foggy notion about Sunni and Shi'a Islam, but most of them do think Islam is some unified body bent on global domination. They would think, for instance, that a Bosniak is exactly the same as the people who steered the planes into the World Trade Center.

The guy saying this surely knows he's full of shit, but the rubes like it and there's no downside to him for saying it.

I would love to get rid of Lindsay Graham, but replacing him with this guy wouldn't be an improvement.

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AnarchyFarm@reddit

I live in South Carolina, Lindsey Grahams state. We are one of the poorest and worst educated states in America and I have no idea why this is a priority for our senator especially since the conservative party is running on 'America first.' With any luck he'll lose his position thus year.

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bugog@reddit

It was in Muslim hands for centuries like almost 600 years. It was used as mosque for hundreds of years before. What is this stupid fuss?

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P-l-Staker@reddit

Oh, I'm sure our friends in Turkey tremble in fear right now!

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eleutheromaniann@reddit

ask americans what Hagia Sophia is.

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P-l-Staker@reddit

"Oh, Sophie from college? Yeah, good girl!"!

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Jack55555@reddit

Bless you. Need a tissue?

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gushi1-@reddit

Justinian the Great had it built, he was Albanian/Illyrian so yes we want it back. Return immediately thanks.

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Roufianos255@reddit

I think it's really important for good neighbourly relations to respect each other's borders. I might not like that Hagia Sophia is now part of Turkey but it was 500 years ago, they can do what they want with their land.

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TheMidwinterFires@reddit

And this is the reason I believe that it should have been left a museum. I hope next administration can reverse it but I imagine the islamists wouldn't let go how the left is "closing down mosques" so unfortunately this might be irreversible :(

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Ujemegaz@reddit

It looks like a mosque though. Ottomans built so many mosques based on its architecture that Haghia Sophia no longer gives the impression of a church.

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IkmoIkmo@reddit

Have you ever stepped inside? It screams 'not a mosque' when you step inside, because the alignment with Mecca is different from the alignment of the building. Check the photos, it looks terrible. (not to mention the images of jesus, mary, the angels etc, forbidden in islam to depict.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

Yes i have. And yes, it looks terrible.

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Lothronion@reddit

In Greece almost every church is basically a variation of a mini Hagia Sophia.

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Ujemegaz@reddit

No it isn't.

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Lothronion@reddit

I suppose it is up to the eye of the beholder.

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BurgurluGenc031@reddit

İt should stay netiher cami or church but as museum,end of conservation

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OkoMushrooom@reddit

Everyone come get your popcorn free of charge the 🍿🍿🍿

gif

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Early-Show2886@reddit

Bullshit. Idiotic.

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bostanite@reddit

In Greece we say "the world is burning and the pussy is combing itself" and I think that's beautiful.

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Siuansanche@reddit

Hahah we have a very similar saying in Turkish, rough translate would be "the whore would comb her hair while the neighbourhood is burning"

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Lothronion@reddit

What the above user says is the more recent and sanitized translation of that phrase. From what I have read, in Koine and Medieval Greek slang the term (chtena / kteni) "comb" was also used for "cunt", supposedly due to looking similar in shape, so the older translation was far more vulgar, as in "the world is burning and the cunt is cunting" (probably with the meaning that it is behaving as it has always been going, as if nothing is happening, rather than being busy with a random task, as the more modern understanding suggests).

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bostanite@reddit

This is actually cool info. Thanks!

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NoEatBatman@reddit

In Romania it's "The house is burning and the old woman is brushing her hair" and i get this feeling incredibly frequently these days, in romanian, european and international politics alike

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Aquos18@reddit

in Cyprus we have that saying as well

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BloodStarvedLeopard@reddit

Now küss

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kostence@reddit

With those three brain cells left, Lynch is pretty good with world affairs. The imbeciles voting for him for that matter is another issue to deal with. Nevertheless, the secular wisdom of Atatürk to keep it as a museum is never understood by present day administration. For centuries it was a mosque btw, not a cathedral. Atatürk turned it into museum until today’s imbeciles ruined everything.

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lazypt@reddit

I think it is another american tht is very religious and love the bible but only the pulp fiction bible

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The_ScarRzZ@reddit

tutorial: how to push another powerfull nation towards russian sphere of influence over a stupid building that.s teirs anyway.

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munkshroom@reddit

The guy is a clown but Based.

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More_Ad_5142@reddit

Based for what? Populist promises that will never be realized?

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munkshroom@reddit

Exactly the only value is the comedic value in trolling Turks.

Nobody expects this to actually happen lol.

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crivycouriac@reddit

Let him try

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Gimmebiblio@reddit

What a ridiculous statement. I would suggest that he focuses on his countrymen's problems instead. I hear they're in a bit of a crisis over there...

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Berk-Birkenstock@reddit

Personally, I love going to that cami. Highly recommend!

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Lothronion@reddit

I find it hilarious, due to how random it is.

Though it would make sense for Turks to allow it to be an Orthodox cathedral, given how a century-long desire of the Greek side is to have Orthodox liturgies in the Hagia Sophia, which extends to the sentiment to retake the City (or it did so, when it was still there, today it is a very fringe position in Greece). In fact, there are even alleged prophecies over how supposedly when the Greeks somehow retake Constantinople (as if it exists anymore), they would have the first official liturgy there since the Fall of Constantinople. By allowing that to happen, even once, these so-called prophecies would be nullified. It would be even funnier if the Greek side refused to hold a liturgy for this precise reason, strengthening Turkey’s point on it not being a church, as after giving them the right to hold religious rites in the venue, they are refusing to, so they would have no point asking for that again.

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Obvious-Dot6352@reddit

Lol