Sydney concert to benefit Bondi terror victims canceled after choir opposes singing with Jewish group
Posted by xland44@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 411 comments
HerrHaschen@reddit
Well, shit... who can blame them? General anti-semitism remains a hurdle to be conquered for society at large, but this isn't such a case.
It's a question of liability. Anti-semitism is unpopular in many places. So is genocide. Just as people want to avoid publically associating with anti-semites, they and yet others will also distance themselves from anyone potentially associated with wanton slaughter of women, children, and the elderly.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
So, avoid all Jews because you don’t like Israel? What?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
No, just the ones who support genocidal states, whether Jewish or otherwise.
meister2983@reddit
So let me get this right... All the people I see with American flags at a No Kings rally.. actually support the current administration by virtue of holding an American flag
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Oooh, so they were singing in protest of the current Israeli administration? Ok, my bad, I misunderstood that completely.
meister2983@reddit
My understanding is that they have no comment on the current administration.
To my point I can wave a flag of America and literally have no opinion whatsoever on the government's current policies
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Would you also sing in front of Trump?
meister2983@reddit
I'm sure plenty of Americans would. Even if they don't care about the guy.
Jewish Australians. The flag of Israel is their homeland not some rando country
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
and there it is.
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
War isn’t genocide. I’ll believe it’s about social justice when the same people start boycotting Russians and Sudanese people with the same fervor
There was just another “antizionist” knife attack in England. You know, along with the “antizionist” burning of Jewish ambulances and the “antizionist” attack in Bondi.
No wonder Jews want their own country. I can’t imagine living somewhere that attacked Americans abroad and then excused it with “well, Americans killed a lot of people in Iraq and they haven’t universally condemned their country and even celebrated the 4th of July, so don’t they really deserve it a little bit?”
Fucking braindead
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Typical Zionist-apologetic hysteria. Saying "I don't want to sing next someone who endorses genocidal states" isn't the same as murder, which is what you're implying.
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
Like I said. Brain dead
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
War is not genocide, but genocide is genocide, and what Israel is doing is both war and genocide.
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
Not even close.
Genocide doesn’t mean “a lot of people died in a war they started.”
jacksonelhage@reddit
that’s not what this is, unless you’re implying thousands of children under 5 years old are somehow responsible for starting a war.
Shane-8300@reddit
Why would those bother you?
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
Why would attacks on Jewish people under the pretext of moral superiority bother me? Because they’re abhorrent.
Shane-8300@reddit
Why? You're cool with blowing up newborns by the thousands, why would you have a problem with the above?
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
I live in the US. They’ve committed worse war crimes and never told their enemies when to evacuate
Those deaths are on the Arab world who refused to accept Palestinian refugees, and on Hamas who intentionally kills Israeli children to start a war they couldn’t win
Shane-8300@reddit
Just like 9/11 is on America for meddling in the middle east, and the liquidation of Warsaw is on the jews for attacking the wehrmacht
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
Attacking the Wehrmacht and attacking the Middle East for killing your civilians is very morally different than going into someone’s home and violently killing all men, women, and children inside
Shane-8300@reddit
But you've already established you're totally fine with that.
It's like you said, don't support Israel if you don't want to get Bondi'd
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
No. Again, war doesn’t equal cold blooded murder
Shane-8300@reddit
Cool, well when you get another 9/11 I'll keep that in mind
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Poor little Israel with its airforce and nuclear weapons is never responsible for anything, but Palestinian babies bear the full responsibility. You people out yourselves as fascists so easily.
Pugasaurus_Tex@reddit
Gaza started a war by murdering Israeli civilians on October 7th and refusing to return hostages
In Lebanon, hezbollah, an Iranian proxy, shot so many missiles at Israel that the north still isn’t fully populated. Israeli had to evacuate. Druze children were killed playing soccer
In Syria, the Druze were attacked and there was an attempted genocide. Only Israel defended them, not a single one of the usual self-righteous suspects
In the West Bank, settlements exist in Area C, which the Oslo Accords designated under Israeli control. They’ve had opportunities to change that by accepting statehood and recognizing Israel, which the PA has consistently refused
But sure. Israel is fascist for defending its people against missile attacks and defending another minority group against genocide
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
"American"
Slobberz2112@reddit
See here father that’s not what they said
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
In reference to avoiding a Jewish choir. How can that be read in any way other than “avoid Jews.”
jacksonelhage@reddit
a choir who performed in front of isaac herzog. it’s really not hard to distance yourself from genocide.
itchy_armpit_it_is@reddit
But they did
WestcoastAlex@reddit
according to ToI
theres no backstory at all
HitlersUndergarments@reddit
I can, anyone can if they care to make a good faith argument. It's deeply paranoid to associate all Jewish related groups to be genocide abiding. What did this achieve aside from canceling concert with charitable goals? This seems like ideological purity that completely tosses aside rational thinking and only polarizes people by making everything hyper simplistic.
sumquy@reddit
their home page has them standing in front of a giant israli flag. seems pretty clear where they stand.
meister2983@reddit
That's like claiming an American waving an American flag necessarily supports the policies of the current government.
sumquy@reddit
an australian waving an american flag would be evidence that they support the us current policies. these are not israelis.
meister2983@reddit
Why? If they are an American emigrant?
No but they are Jews. Diaspora using a flag of a cultural linkage.
Do you think the Hellenistic choir waving a Greek flag means they support whatever government policies Greece has at the moment?
sumquy@reddit
show the pic or quit making shit up.
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
I'm sorry, are you saying that the Jewish Choral Society committed genocide? Or are you saying that people are justified in accusing all Jews of genocide and thus excludingJews from society?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
If the Sydney Jewish Choral Society does not want to be associated with a genocidal state, why do they proudly stand and sing in front of the flag of the said genocidal state? Given that they're ostensibly Australian, such a display is completely optional, yet they choose to do it.
bakelywood@reddit
Bit disingenuous sharing a photo from 2022 and using it as a reason to suggest these people are pro-genocide.
Whilst the issues between Israel & Palestine has lasted long before October 7th, it was not widely considered a genocide at the time of the photo.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
They still proudly display it on their website today (completely optional). Just last year, they performed in front of Israel's president Isaac Herzog (also completely optional).
I could maybe accept that the normal person might not known a enough about Israel in 2022, a Jewish person standing in front of an Israel flag surely knows enough about Israel to know Israel regularly kills a lot of people and steals their homes.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I think that photo from 2022 alone is a little weak to argue they're ok with being associated with genocide. And I don't know if that photo was the reason for why the Hellenic group opposes them. There must be something a little more substantial, like actual statements from the members of the Sydney Jewish Choral Society?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
They performed in front of the president of Israel last year.
loggy_sci@reddit
This might come as a surprise but many Jewish people support the existence of Israel and also oppose the war in Gaza.
jacksonelhage@reddit
those things are entirely mutually exclusive, sorry.
loggy_sci@reddit
Only online. Palestinians themselves want a 2SS based on 1967 borders. Which you know if you cared at all about this issue beyond its use as a way to feel morally superior on social media.
jacksonelhage@reddit
who’s “palestinians themselves”. you speak for every Palestinian in the world? i know Palestinians who want Palestine back. I’m Lebanese and I don’t want them to take Lebanon. Almost every Palestinian resistance group wants Palestine back. The PLO fought for decades and decades before even considering the idea of agreeing to a “two state solution”. Which was no solution at all because Israel never stopped killing. You give yourself away calling it the “war in Gaza”. Yeah, a lot of Israelis want an end to the “war”. But they love the genocide. They want the genocide to continue.
loggy_sci@reddit
Literally every poll of Palestinian people living in the West Bank and Gaza shows support for a 2SS. Support varies depending on whether polling was done in Gaza vs the WB and is also driven by feelings towards the war. PCPSR does polling on this, as does Arab Barometer.
https://www.arabbarometer.org/wp-content/uploads/AB9-Palestine-Report-2-EN.pdf
Why don’t you actually do some reading instead of your goofy soapboxing that we’ve heard 1000 times?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
It's like saying you support Nazi Germany but you oppose the Holocaust. You don't get the genocide in Gaza without the genocidal state of Israel. Israel's very existence is a Jewish supremacist project and, definitionally, can only bring death and destruction.
loggy_sci@reddit
It’s like that if you get your takes off of TikTok and only started paying attention to I/P after Oct 7th.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Can you say one thing that isn't a boomer hasbara soundbite?
loggy_sci@reddit
Your comparison is stupid because Palestinians themselves in the past AND CURRENTLY want a 2SS with Israel. Jews in Nazi Germany weren’t seeking statehood, nor were they governed by terrorists, funded by Qatari and Iranian money, nor were they given billions in aid by nations all over the world (including the U.S. and Europe) for decades.
The historical comparison is stupid. It’s entirely vibes and your emotions, and you got it off of social media. You don’t have an original thought in your head and you haven’t been paying attention to this conflict for very long.
Now it’s your turn to call me hasbara and genocidal for the crime of disagreeing with your reductive, vapid bullshit.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Good ChatGPT copy-paste.
loggy_sci@reddit
Okay it’s obvious you’re just joyriding Palestinian suffering because it allows you to troll and be self-righteous.
Prosthemadera@reddit
That's not true, at least for Jewish Americans:
https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jfna-survey-finds-just-37-of-jewish-americans-identify-as-zionists/
bakelywood@reddit
Why would you expect a Jewish person to know that about Israel though? This is the type of conflating Israel & Jews that is very insidious.
It makes the assumption that all Jews are inherently linked to Israel. I know plenty of UK Jews who were totally uneducated about the reality of what's going on, and had their eyes opened to it over the past 3 years.
As for performing in front of Herzog - my understanding is that this was at a memorial for the Australian Jews targeted and killed in a terrorist attack. I do not blame them for wanting to perform and support that, and I do not believe that doing so makes them implicitly supportive of genocide. They didn't perform for Herzog, they performed in memory of the victims - The more pertinent question is why was Herzog there at all, but I doubt that was the choirs doing.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Why didn't they release a statement saying they will perform at this event as long as the president of the genocidal state isn't there? Just like the Greek group said they wouldn't perform, the Jewish group in this case had that option. Unless you want to tell me that Australia is not a free country and they were forced to perform in front of Herzog under the threat of death?
At this point, most of joints are torn from how much bending backwards you're doing to justify their actions.
bakelywood@reddit
Yes, I think it's dangerous to conflate Judaism with having an inherent knowledge of Israel's history and politics.
Because that is one step away from saying all Jews are culpable by association - which is simply not true.
Stubbs94@reddit
It was still a violent apartheid and occupation in 2022 however.
bakelywood@reddit
100% it was, but I don't think the vast majority of people recognised how terrible it truly was until after the events of October 7th. The events that followed October 7th opened a lot of people's eyes (Jews and non-jews).
And my concern is with how this bleeds into anti-Semitism around the globe - people tarring Jews with the sins of Israel - a country they might have zero relation to, who they abhor completely.
Chloe1906@reddit
Yet israel has still been wiping palestine and its inhabitants off the land and committing ethnic cleansing long before October 7th.
Acceptable-Device760@reddit
Israel has been at if for far longer than 2022.
YouWantSMORE@reddit
It's there a date for when that picture was taken?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
It is proudly displayed on the front page of their website today.
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
Why would a french group sing in front of a French flag, especially given the horrible things that the French government has done. Substitute any ethnicity. Russian, Chinese, Burmese, Sudanese.
People can't differentiate between an ethnicity, a nation that is mostly made up of people of that ethnicity, and the actions of the government of that country.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
A more apt analogy is an ethnic German group singing in front of a Nazi flag, or a Muslim singing in front of ISIS flag, which I'd find equally objectionable to a Jewish group singing in front of the Israeli flag. Given that these people are Australian, they could have used the Australian flag or no flag at all, this is completely optional and they choose to do it. They want that association to be made, and they shouldn't be mad if we make that association.
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
Nazis and Isis are not ethnicities. For all the horrors, both real and fake, that Israel have been accused of, none approach the horrors of the nazi regime.
You are effectively justifying the exclusion of any Jew who has ever stood in front of an Israeli flag.
Chloe1906@reddit
Zionist is not an ethnicity as well. Excluding Jews is wrong, but it is completely fair to exclude Zionists.
cmndr_keen@reddit
Because Jews shouldn't have their homeland associated with the land of Israel?
Chloe1906@reddit
I don’t know if I understand what you’re saying.
cmndr_keen@reddit
Ziomism is a movement supporting Jewish national homeland in historic land of Israel.
BioSemantics@reddit
Zionism is a enthno-supremacist nationalist political movement bent on taking over the levant. Your definition is a nice way of say Israel wants to steal more land than it has already stolen from the actual native people of the region to create a fascist enthocracy.
Chloe1906@reddit
And Zionism is morally wrong. Canaan is not the homeland of every Jew in the world simply because their ancestors were there centuries ago. Palestinians (including Palestinian Jews) are indigenous - they are genetic descendants of ancient Jews and other Canaanites and have been on that land for thousands of years.
A Jew in Boston whose family was in Poland for at least a thousand years is not a native of Canaan. For some reason we accept this twisted “homeland” logic for Jews but would laugh someone out of the room for implying the same for literally any other people in the world.
It is morally wrong to set up a Jewish state - one where land use and immigration and even the flag favors Jews, and where only Jews are ever allowed to be the majority - on a land where the indigenous are not majority Jewish. Sure, Canaan is significant for Jews and they should be welcomed there, but not at the expense of Palestinians.
cmndr_keen@reddit
Judaism is literally based on Canaan religion. Have a look on Canaanite pantheon, it has a wiki page.
As for the state, it was established long before I was born. I believe league of nations were involved.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
Isn't the homeland of these particular people Australia?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Israeli is also not an ethnicity. I feel like you're kinda lost in your own analogy.
The Zionist regime of Israel is worse than the Nazi regime for two main reasons:
- A Jewish state with such a unique Jewish history is intimately familiar with the horrors of mass murder and genocide. This burden of knowledge creates a burden of responsibility.
- As human civilisation at large, we have undergone a lot of political and moral evolutions since WWII, and as such we know uphold ourselves and each other to even higher moral standards.
Yes, I think the exclusion of anybody (Jewish or not) who endorses the state of Israel is completely justified.
PunctualZombie@reddit
Jesus, you’re disgusting.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
I gave my rational argument. Instead of being this emotionally triggered, how about you try to act as a civilised person and engage in the discussion? Or is that too much to expect from you?
PunctualZombie@reddit
You can be visibly Muslim and walk through Jerusalem and Tel Aviv right now. If I walked through Nazi Germany as a visible Jew, I would be taken off the streets and sent to a camp to be killed.
You are a dangerous historical illiterate.
sumquy@reddit
like this guy did?
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
oh no, the truth is too dangerous, shut it down
loggy_sci@reddit
This is an insane take. Jesus Christ. Go outside and put your hands into some grass.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Ah, touching grass, original.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Nah, you just hate Jews. Go spend 30 minutes today learning what actually went on at Auschwitz and educate yourself. If Jews are so familiar with mass murder then what the hell do you think they’d do after the 10/7 genocide? Just open the border with Gaza? Stop having different standards for Jews. They don’t have to accept terrorism despite people like you enjoying Jews being killed.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Classic. Nobody's buying this hysteria anymore.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Classic, nobody’s buying that you’re just “anti Zionist” anymore. Show your true colors IRL. Good luck.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
Israel is running your country into the ground by allying itself with the likes of Trump, and you lick their boot, shame on you.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
I'm very comfortable talking about my disdain for Israel IRL. It's nice that the majority of Americans, in addition to the vast majority of people all around the world, no longer support that genocidal racial supremacist state.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
You’re basically a Hamas bootlicker. The vast majority of Americans don’t support you, keep telling yourself that.
Shane-8300@reddit
Lmao, I guess polling is khamas now too
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
Please go be stupid somewhere else.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Real mature response. You’re just another troll.
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
So, first a note: the article we are responding to was originally published by The Australian. That article stated that more than half the members of the Hellentic Choir voted against working with the Sydney Jewish Choral Society due to "Political Reasons". The Australian Hellentic Choir has responded with this statement: Australian Hellentic Choir – Music of the World. Ultimately, we are arguing about whether people are racists because of something that they didn't actually happen.
Really? There's no ethnic group associated with Israel?
Holocaust: 4 years and 96% of Jews in Nazi custody were killed.
Armenian Genocide: over two periods up to about 80% of Armenians were killed.
Rwandan Genocide: 100 days, 520,000-702,000 or about 80% of Tutsis were killed.
Srebenica genocide: Over the course of a few days, 8,372 men or boys - comprising 100% of "military age" males in the enclave, were rounded up and then shot.
Gaza: Over the course of 2.5 years, 70,000 or about 3% of the population are killed. This is about 70% of the birth rate over the previous 2 years. It is a callous way of looking at it, but if the rate of death is less than the rate of birth, genocide is unlikely to be an explanation for the conflict.
Other differences between the four genocides I listed and Gaza include:
- The genocided group were exclusively civilians.
- The genocided group were rounded up before being murdered.
- The genocided group were subject to either mass rapes on a systemic level.
Some other points:
The conflict in Gaza is urban warfare. This is not comparable to the Ukrainian conflict, where civilians are far away from the front lines. This is more comparable to the Battle of Mosul (2016–2017) - Wikipedia. Estimates vary on the percentage of civilian deaths at Mosul, but it is likely somewhere between 50% and 80%. The estimates for civilian deaths in Gaza, are somewhere between 65% and 70% based on demographics.
FYI: the calculation for civilian deaths in Gaza is based on 31% of casualties being under 18, while 47% of the population is under 18. 31/47 is 66%, assuming that Hamas does not use child soldiers, which they do.
Oddly enough, both Hamas and ISIS deployed fighters amongst civilians and protected facilities, which is why the civilian casualty rate was so high.
Israel also takes significantly more measures to reduce civilian casualties. Since this doesn't fit into your world view, I'm sure you are going to call this propaganda, so here is a BBC article recounting the experience of a Palestinian man.
While many Australians are critical of Israel's treatment of Palestinians and the conflict in Gaza, roughly 60% of Australians support Israel's right to exist and defend itself. You are thus arguing for the majority of Australians to be excluded from participating in society.
furiousmadgeorge@reddit
Well said
CharmCityKid09@reddit
They can't help but out themselves. Even the implication they are presenting that this Jewish group has to make a statement about a country they don't live in is ridiculous on its face.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
If they're just sitting at home or going about their normal lives, they don't need to make a statement. When they're singing in front of the flag of said country and in front of the president of said country, then yes they're obligated to make a statement.
CharmCityKid09@reddit
Do you understand how international diplomacy works? When a high ranking official is present at public events in another country you often see the flag of the country they represent.
The choir shouldn't be required to give some prepared statement to align with your need to be offended when thats not why they were there or the purpose of their actions.
It's quite sad that people are this desperate to make others do such performative actions.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
If the choir was going to perform for the rulers of Afghanistan or Nazi Germany, I'd expect them to either refuse.
CharmCityKid09@reddit
The choir didn't perform for either. They performed at a memorial event, in Australia for the Australian Jewish community.
You all are really pathetic with your whiny need to invoke nazis into everything even slightly concerning Israel.
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
Are you saying that if a Russian group posed in front of a Russian flag, they should be held accountable for all the actions of the Russian government and be excluded from society?
I've yet to see a single ethnic Russian, Burmese, Turk, or Saudi be harassed over the actions of their government.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
If they pose in front of the Russian flag and sing in front of Putin, yes I think it's fair for others to not want to be associated with them.
imokayjustfine@reddit
No. Even ignoring how outrageously false this “analogy” is otherwise, it would logically be like an ethnic German singing in front of a German flag, perhaps at a bad time, but not of a Nazi flag. The Israeli flag is the flag of the entire state of Israel. It doesn’t actually represent any specific political movement or action within.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Is the Sydney Jewish Choral Society an Israeli group? I thought they're Australian, judging by the name.
Seinfeel@reddit
Is that the flag of a country or an ethnicity?
“No I’m singing in front of an American flag but it’s not about the country I swear”
Dry-Season-522@reddit
it's an upvoted post on this subreddit. You know what they're saying.
RaiJolt2@reddit
Clearly people do not want to availed being associated publicly with antisemites. Not wanting to sing with victims of an antisemitic terror attack is just antisemitism, liability or not. Aiding minorities is always a “liability” in a country of racists and xenophobes.
BioSemantics@reddit
https://www.sjchoral.org/
RaiJolt2@reddit
That’s a different choir group, I don’t see why you linked them?
BioSemantics@reddit
No?
Prosthemadera@reddit
It is, though. Opposing a Jewish choir for being Jewish is antisemitic. It wasn't about them being Israelis.
Graphene-OS@reddit
The banner image on their own website is them signing in front of a giant Israeli flag.
I don’t think we’re getting the full story from this article. The Hellenic choir previously partnered with JCS to put on an event about the holocaust, and they’ve already gone through rehearsals for this particular event. But only now did the Hellenic quire suddenly decide to back out. Did the choir just turn antisemitic over the course of a few weeks?
giboauja@reddit
Oh the flag thing is understandable.
Taniwha_NZ@reddit
How the hell do you spell 'choir' correctly twice, then spell it 'quire'? Dyslexic lol?
Graphene-OS@reddit
Lmao I have no idea how I did that
Emergency-Style7392@reddit
Yet if the same thing was done to muslims for associating with flags that sponsor/do terrorist acts it's rightfully islamophobic.
m4xdc@reddit
Are you sure? I don’t see them signing anything
machado34@reddit
This seems like another instance of trying to conflate anti-zionism with anti-Semitism. The unfortunate thing is that this does actually fuel and increase actual anti-semitism. Israel is a plague to the world, and are doing more damage to the jewish community than anyone else has in the past 30 years
Prosthemadera@reddit
I agree, actually. My comment was made under the assumption that it accurately described what happened but I'm not so sure anymore.
Patric-Tsar-9fingers@reddit
I agree with your logic here in general, but the source is toi. I am skeptical of everything about this.
Prosthemadera@reddit
See my edit.
giboauja@reddit
I dont understand? Is this an Israeli choir? Are they openly and proudly pro Israel?
Otherwise...
xland44@reddit (OP)
Hi "Herr Haschen", the Bondi attack was a horrifying modern-day pogrom targeting civillian Jews. It wasn't targeting military personnel in the middle east.
This article also doesn't contain Israel, Zionism, or current events in the middle east.
What you're doing right now is called "whataboutism" - you're trying to minimize the struggles Jews undergo due to racism, anti semitism and bigotry by distracting and drawing attention to unrelated events.
Unfortunately, antisemites like to do this as a "subtle" dogwhistle on any post related to Jews. I sure hope you're not one of them.
snukz@reddit
One of those killed in the Bondi attacks, Rabbi Eli Schlanger, was someone who had personally fundraised and supported the settlement occupation of the West Bank. Called it "land for the Jewish people". Even got himself a photo with a warhead.
I'm sure that's just anti-Semitic to say though.
WestcoastAlex@reddit
that was his flock at the beach party. all of them fundraised for the IDF
Infamous_Laugh_8207@reddit
Including 10 year old Matilda?
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
I'm sure she was as clearly a military as Hind Rajab. There is no high road when you're defending Israel. The Bondi attack was a tragedy that should absolutely never have happened. But it doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Infamous_Laugh_8207@reddit
The death of Hind Rajab was a tragedy and the only one here trying to rationalise the death of children is you.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Y'all need to learn what words mean, you keep misusing them.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Look at you, justifying killing a 10 year old. Given your logic, the destruction of Gaza didn’t happen in a vacuum either.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Don't be such a transparently bad faith dorole. No one reading my comment could see that as justifying the murder of a child, you're showing your whole ass. As for the second part: Exactly, Gaza had been under oppressive occupation for decades. Its destruction and the ongoing genocide of the Gazans is certainly to be the subject of many war crimes trials in the future.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
lol. “Ongoing genocide”. You people have really cheapened the word genocide. Funny it was never “occupied” under Egypt, nor do you ever blame Muslims when it comes to the blockade.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Friend, if the scholars of a political term say that it applies, seems like you are the one needing to its usage. Egypt didn't control all land air and sea access to Gaza so no, it wasn't the same. Friggan obviously.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Well Gazans weren’t sending suicide bombers into Egypt. Gaza was free after Israel pulled settlers in 2006, opened it up and what happened? Terrorism. Not acceptable.
NotGalenNorAnsel@reddit
Israel still controlled all access via air sea and land, preventing things as dangerous as chocolate and clothing.
And yeah, the oppressed stack the oppressors, makes perfect sense. Attacking Egypt wouldn't, generally, help their cause.
Israel is a belligerent rogue state. Not acceptable. And honestly, Trump's hamfisted approach has surfaced the insidious influence of Israel among world leaders and the youth will not forget. The goodwill Israel was allotted on its inception was spent years ago. Within a few election cycles US support will largely dry up. That will be an interesting time.
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Luckily Israel has enough money and technology that they don’t need US support. Go cry about it.
The only reason Gaza is oppressed is that it’s a terrorist enclave. Choices have consequences. Want to vote in a terrorist group and send 3,000 (which is a ton of people) over the border with the sole mission to savagely murder as many innocent people as possible? Well shit like that has consequences. Too bad 💅
WestcoastAlex@reddit
yes, sadly the Chabad extremists groom their Children to support genocide
MaestroRozen@reddit
So what if he was? Extremists behind this attack weren't out for his head - they were out to kill Jews, plain and simple. Presence of the man doesn't change that in the slightest, and anyone who thinks it does is no better than people who cheer when IDF blows up a bunch of Palestinians to take out a single Hamas member.
xland44@reddit (OP)
Yes, if you randomly take a gun and shoot at dozens of people, statistically at least one of them will disagree with you politically.
Actually no, not at all!
Likewise, if you criticize Israel for bombing civillian locations containing senior Hamas members as immoral but conveniently drop your entire moral system when it comes to Jews, then this would make you a racist anti semite, yes!
Suasx@reddit
Fund the IDF and illegal settlements that murder and rape civilians = disagree politically.
You guys are hilarious.
HonkinSriLankan@reddit
What about criticizing the use of white phosphorus or dog rape?
xland44@reddit (OP)
Yes, I do criticize despicable acts. Now scram.
WILDBO4R@reddit
I don't think it's as black and white as that. A lot of Jewish Australian groups are vocally supportive of Israel and a lot of Israelis are vocal in minimizing the difference between the country and the faith.
loggy_sci@reddit
Was this choir vocally supportive of Israel? Literally noting on their website other than a pic of them in front of a flag, which was taken during a performance at a memorial concert.
WILDBO4R@reddit
I'm not sure, I'm just saying it isn't so black and white. In any cases, singing in front of a flag that has become a symbol of genocide and colonialism is a choice.
Lol, 'they don't represent Israel in any way', banner photo on their homepage is a massive flag.
MobileSuitBooty@reddit
to be fair, israelis and israeli lobbying groups have conflated jewish identity and zionism and israel as one in the same
this is the byproduct of they conflation
and before people can’t rub their brain cells this isn’t an endorsement it’s an explanation
CricketJamSession@reddit
No, its actually responsibility removal of the people that can't think for themselves and conflate jews with their political agenda or just straight up use it for their antisemitic world views
MobileSuitBooty@reddit
Yeah they do, so why wouldn’t we admit the conflation aids in this. It provides a smoke screen for some in the margins to latch onto.
When our institutions peddle in lies it’s going to lead people to seek for out groups to blame. And some institutions provide those out groups.
loggy_sci@reddit
So if you say something antisemitic you can just absolve yourself of responsibility, because of what some Israeli politician says?
Super convenient for people who are antisemtic anyway.
xland44@reddit (OP)
This is a byproduct of murderous racist bigots in autstralia deciding to murder. It's not zionists who shot up jews at Bondi.
A more fitting term in this case is apologism. You're being an apologist for mass shootings of Jews.
KalzK@reddit
Why do they always exclude men specifically from these things?
pineapplesgreen@reddit
You’re so right, I always feel awkward just mentioning women and children too but unfortunately Zionists are sociopathic. They try to convince everyone that the murder is justified by claiming its all in self-defense which is why we bring up the women and children. But of course I’m very sure we have all seen how much they don’t even give a fck that they murder children, they just dehumanize them too, so idk why we try.
BlinkDodge@reddit
This is what it is.
The IDF practices
shootin' low cause they aimin' at kids.
Wonder why they despised -
children, husbands and wives;
and when somebody shoots back
they act fuckin' surprised.
DavidAdamsAuthor@reddit
Random Jews in Sydney, Australia are not the IDF.
TheGloriousNugget@reddit
Random children in Gaza are not Hamas.
imokayjustfine@reddit
Yeah, both of those statements are true. That statement doesn’t refute or contradict the one you replied to at all.
Yussso@reddit
In Indonesia recently there's a train accident involving a commuter train and all of the deceased victims are women because there's a special train compartment(I'm not sure if that's the word) for women at the front and the back on each train set. They made it at the front and at the back for easy access and easy recognition so that men aren't mistaking it and entering it unknowingly.
A day after the accident the Minister of Women’s Empowerment and Child Protection made a statement that "these woman-only compartments need to be put in the middle of the train, then put men-only compartment at the end of each train set." And it got viral to say the least. She gotta have one fcked up view to put out that kind of statement.
brownmochi@reddit
When the United States took over the Philippines, one general gave an order to “kill everyone over the age of ten.” Military aged male is subjective in colonial matters.
Elman89@reddit
Wait till you realize what it means when these militaries talk about killing "military aged men" (that could easily be a bunch of 14 year olds or old men).
PureImbalance@reddit
It's worse. Israel and USA define "enemy combatant" as any male between 16-65. By this standard, ~70% of Oct. 7 victims were "enemy combatants". See how that works out?
Raulr100@reddit
I always read "military aged men" as "definitely not soldiers"
Amphy64@reddit
I'd like to be able to push back against the idea men are all potential combatants more. The story of Israeli snipers killing multiple young male members of one family is devastating. It's just that holding up the deaths of women and children makes it undeniable: this is not just a normal military operation.
MondoSpecial@reddit
Traditionally, during conflicts men are seen as potential fighters. Therefore there is less sympathy for them when they are killed. Women and children have been traditionally seen as innocent
valentc@reddit
Ok, cool. Idk why people are trying to use this to justify the dehumanization of men, but this argument doesnt work like people think it does. Its not 2000 BCE.
"Oh, well traditionally winning tribes would kill the males as theres less chance for revenge. Thats why no one cares about them."
Acrobatic-Jump1105@reddit
It's because pencil dick losers feel manly and cool when they simp for an oligarchs war that they will never have to experience or sacrifice for.
It makes them feel like "part of the team" to echo these reductionist, "rationalist" talking points and then they don't have to imagine themselves as living in a society that murders innocent people and women and children, but instead "makes hard choices to defend its interests".
Unfortunately for the people doing this, they are part of an ever shrinking minority of people. Even the most lifelong Republicans I know (in Ohio) have expressed shock and frustration over the federal government's continued belligerence toward Iran and the inappropriate continued support for Israeli war crimes.
This bullshit is going to bankrupt this country, and there morons refuse to see reason because to see reason would be to admit culpability or at least admit to the culpability of "their guy".
So they waste their free time simping for billionaires on reddit, even though these billionaires are doing nothing to improve the simp's position in the world while actively exploiting him and wasting his tax dollars on bombs to drop on fishing boats and elementary school girls.
So honestly, it's difficult to blame them for living in a fantasy world
MondoSpecial@reddit
When there is a military draft. It’s the men that are conscripted (refer to Ukraine). Look at the USA military 80% of the active duty force is men. So yes even in the modern day, men are the primary fighters.
valentc@reddit
Ok, and? Youre still using the "well thats how its always been, so men are less valuable."
Drafts are FORCED. Its literally the state telling men their only purpose is to die for the state.
The US military is a volunteer force, and 70% of civilians don't even qualify.
I don't understand how that makes all military age males reasonable and unimportant of mention when talking about casualties. You're still assuming all men are soldiers. They're still innocent civilians a majority of the time, but you'll always have groups come in to say why theyre lives are unimportant.
SabziZindagi@reddit
No shit. The reason is because it's much easier to claim men as enemy combatants. If you chart those who you know aren't combatants, it's easier to point out the war crime.
Shorkan@reddit
But we can say "innocent civilians", which by definition aren't combatants, and don't exclude people because of their sex.
We_Are_The_Romans@reddit
Yes but you're missing the point that was just explained to you - a Hasbarist dickhead is just gonna derail that (correct) statement by saying "those weren't innocent civilians" etc etc, and point to some Hamas activity somewhere. Focusing on women and children pre-empts that, yes at the rhetorical exclusion of men, but it's not because of some misandrist moral judgement, it's just that people have done this same dance a million times before
valentc@reddit
They do that with women and children too. The amount of "theyre terrorist babies" rhetoric that Israelis do still happens. Yet people still call it out because its a bad argument. Same with saying it about the men.
I don't understand how its different with men, or how that trips up discussion about genocide. Do you seriously stop caring if they mention it was men who died instead of women?
We_Are_The_Romans@reddit
Me? No, obviously not, what a strange reading of what I just posted
Stubbs94@reddit
The IDF classes every male Palestinians over the age of 16 as a combatant.
Shorkan@reddit
It's a bit hard to criticize what they are doing if we accept all their arguments, no? What if the IDF starts classing every woman and kid a combatant too, do we also stop calling them out for murdering them?
Innocent civilians aren't combatants, and we can't let them poison the debate by not refuting it.
Stubbs94@reddit
I personally think every single Palestinian murdered is an atrocity, including those murdered while resisting the occupation.
machado34@reddit
The propaganda machine will refer to men as "Fighting age", in order to manufacture the idea that every adult man is a combatant
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Yeah it's messed up but it's just a way to show just how depraved they are. They'll bomb anyone.
skyfire-x@reddit
It would be very simple thing for the Jewish Choir to condemn Israel's genocide. But Zionists can't even acknowledge it happening.
MaestroRozen@reddit
Anyone with two braincells to rub together can blame them. A person who can't distinguish between an Australian Jew and the state of Israel is either a complete idiot, or an antisemite who's happy that they have an excuse to display their hatred openly.
ACupOfLatte@reddit
Anyone with two braincells would open the article to see who published it and go find a different source lol....
MaestroRozen@reddit
Ah yes, the Times of Israel, the Schrodinger's newspaper : somehow simultaneously a reliable outlet that isn't afraid to speak up against its' government and a lying Zionist mouthpiece. Somehow no one was questioning the validity of this recent story or asking for alternate sources on this one. I assume you think they are also false since no one provided an Al Jazeera link for them?
ACupOfLatte@reddit
I fail to see how this contradicts my statement? Those too, find a different source to corroborate and check the facts listed in the article. Propaganda goes both ways lmfao, it's a publication filled with countless writers.
Regardless, I think it says enough about how many braincells you personally have if you instantly got ticked off by my words and brought up Al-Jazeera, another unreliable source that have people checking it's sources because ya know... it's pretty biased to one side.
Bruh lmfao, pretty pathetic snark mate.
BioSemantics@reddit
https://www.sjchoral.org/
This sort of makes it obvious..
DerCatrix@reddit
Netanyahu actively benefits from the anti-semitism he creates. He wants antisemitism because it validates his existence.
discountErasmus@reddit
Given that you implicitly include "all Jews" in the category "people associated with wanton slaughter of women, children and the elderly" that people will naturally want to distance themselves from, this is just a defense of anti-semitism, and not a good one.
jacksonelhage@reddit
where does it say “all jews” in their comment? you can’t just make up a thing and put quotes around it.
BioSemantics@reddit
He said 'implicitly' which is code for you need to hallucinate 'all jews' into the original comment because words don't matter only the feelings of genocidal zionists.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
I can.
Which women, children, and/or elderly did the Bondi Beach victims slaughter? Or the Jewish choir? Are all Jews guilty for Israel's crimes?
jacksonelhage@reddit
people who explicitly support the state of israel are complicit in israel’s crimes yes. look at the website who published this article and look at the choir group itself.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
This would be interesting logic to apply to those who endorse the 7 October attack as ”legitimate resistance against an oppressor”.
jacksonelhage@reddit
no it wouldn’t
TheTromo@reddit
Well, shit... who can blame them? General islamophobia remains a hurdle to be conquered for society at large, but this isn't such a case.
It's a question of liability. Islamophobia is unpopular in many places. So is terrorism from groups sush as ISIS, JeM, LeT, etc. Just as people want to avoid publically associating with islamophobes, they and yet others will also distance themselves from anyone potentially associated with wanton slaughter of women, children, and the elderly.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The difference, of course, being that the vast majority of muslims do distance themselves from terrorism.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Do you have any data to support those claims?
moonorplanet@reddit
The overwhelming majority of victims killed by terrorists groups identifying as “Islamic” are Muslims.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Yes. That doesn’t pertain to the question.
valentc@reddit
You're bigoted question of "is there proof most Muslims aren't secret terrorists"?
Yeah, thats not a serious question. Go somewhere else for your facebook quotes.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
That’s not correct. u/TraditionalGap1 made the claim that the vast majority of Muslims distance themselves from terrorism. It’s therefore their responsibility to provide evidence for their claim. They also made an indirect claim that Jews associate themselves with wanton slaughter by way of using “the difference is” to introduce their point.
valentc@reddit
Oh, you just have one big victim complex that you need others to validate.
Like they said the first time, go outside and go to a Mosque. If you dont die and no one blows you up, theres your answer.
Most Muslims distance themselves from terrorism because a majority of humanity distances themselves from terrorism. Jfc.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Victim complex? I’m not Jewish lol. The issue isn’t that I think most Muslims are terrorist sympathizers (I don’t), it’s that Redditors are too comfortable making superfluous claims about both the general benevolence of some groups and the malevolence of others.
Again, the Canadian said “the difference is” to introduce their point. They implied that Jews are somehow violent or like violence.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You're so concerned about data; you ever look at polling? You even taken a glance at data for what we're discussing?
I'm willing to bet the answer is no
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Yes, I have. Nice dodge. Do you have any data to support your claim or are you going to tap dance around it?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Yeah, it's called the ability to look around and actually think about what I see. Every prominent Muslim organization in my country and in America unreservedly condemns terrorism and its perpetrators on a regular basis.
I invite you to take a look at the flip side and tell me what you see
throwawayflapper1929@reddit
Really? Many Muslim orgs supported 10/7. And justified it.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Yeah? Are they prominent organizations?
Shane-8300@reddit
So? Many americans support worse
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
No. Having the ability to look around is not data, and certainly not enough to make claims about “the vast majority of Muslims.”
WarmGreenGrass@reddit
You should ask the people in your life what they think! Assuming you even have Muslim and Jewish friends. Or friends at all.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
It doesn’t matter what they think, either. You’re just appealing to other people’s biases to justify your own.
WarmGreenGrass@reddit
Idc about the conversation, but I do have awesome Jewish and Muslim friends. They’re also all anti-terrorist and anti-genocide, lucky that I don’t have to associate with bigots.
PrinceOfPickleball@reddit
Cool.
MaestroRozen@reddit
But they could still potentially be condoning terrorism. If we're using the word "potentially" as an excuse to vilify entire groups, then it's only fair to apply the treatment equally, no?
TheTromo@reddit
Alright then that must mean every single jewish person supports genocide. No exceptions.
Paper_Tiger1985@reddit
You're right. Jewish that don't want one associated with it shoul publicly denounce Israel as an apartheid and genocidal state so it's clear the despise them the same as the rest of the world does. Wanna start?
S-Tier_Commenter@reddit
That's like going up to Muslims and asking them to denounce Bin Laden. It is a racist thing to do.
Maeglom@reddit
Weird how it's racist to dislike genocide...
S-Tier_Commenter@reddit
"Weird how it's Islamophobic to dislike terrorism..."
Same energy.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Damn, reading comprehension is difficult for some of you
TheTromo@reddit
Tell me, do the jewish singing group support what’s being done by Netanyahu?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Let me help you move those goal posts
TheTromo@reddit
Thats literally what this reddit post is about. You okay?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The post? sure.
This particular comment thread? You should know what it's about, you're the one who who decided to try and be clever by comparing Jews and Muslims.
Hardly my fault if that comparison isn't working out like you thought it might
TheTromo@reddit
Distancing oneself from a community as a whole due to the actions of a member of said community was the topic of the original comment. I gave the same comment but about islamophobia.
You said thats fine because muslims dont support terrorism.
So i asked you, “does the jewish singing group support the actions of netanyahu?”
It seems like you don’t understand your own comments. And you talk about reading comprehension.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Where did you get 'due to the actions of a member of said community'? That certainly wasn't part of the original comment.
TheTromo@reddit
It’s called paraphrasing. Come on dude. Seriously.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
How about instead of putting words in peoples mouths you stick to what they actually said? It comes across as self-serving when you needlessly change the meaning of someones comment
TheTromo@reddit
You want me to paste the whole comment? How about instead of relying on me, you just scroll up and read the damn comment?
If you don’t even know what the original comment said, then you were just talking out of your ass just to argue.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You want it to be about distancing from a community due to the actions of a member; that isn't what it's about. It's about distancing themselves from a community due to their association and support with/of those actions. One group actively tries to disassociate themselves from wrongdoing; the other... less so.
To answer your specific question about the singing group: it's far more likely that they do support Netanyahu than that hypothetical muslim singing group supports ISIS/JeM/LeT/whoever. One religious group goes out of its way to condemn such things (thanks, war on terror!).
Next time don't make such a thoughtless comparison.
TheTromo@reddit
So basically, “my ass says they support it so it must be true. Trust me bro.”
DyMiC_909@reddit
Does it ever get exhausting playing the victim?
S-Tier_Commenter@reddit
It's funny when people act like they are the victim of someone playing a victim. It's like complaining about people complaining.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Well, we also have their performing for the Israeli president not even two months ago as a data point. Would you be similarly skeptical if a muslim group performed for Ali Khamenei?
TheTromo@reddit
The whole concert had government support too. Does that mean the australian government ALP support genocide?
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
It's a dying art
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
Whataboutism before lunch? Dude, you really need to stop indulging
Aggravating-Fee1934@reddit
I don't think you know what that word means.
kyussorder@reddit
Lol. Nice whataboutism
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Wow, just the immediate jump from jews to genocide.
jacksonelhage@reddit
yeah, i wonder how he did that reading this article from the TIMES OF ISRAEL
therealpork@reddit
Or... hear me out... you could just not be Jewish. It's a choice. Like I can be white and not own slaves. Or not wave the Nazi flag.
Lifekraft@reddit
The username is surprisingly fitting.
I wouldnt associate with german either since they use to commit genocide as well. I dont associate with anyone though.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
If the Sydney Jewish Choral Society does not want to be associated with a genocidal state, why do they proudly stand and sing in front of the flag of the said genocidal state? Given that they're ostensibly Australian, they could have displayed an Australian flag, or no flag at all. Such a display is completely optional, yet they choose to do it.
If an ethnic German (or really anybody) starts singing with a Nazi flag behind him, I think it's fair to make that association.
loggy_sci@reddit
Good lord, this is pathetic.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Ok Itay.
loggy_sci@reddit
So you call me a Hebrew name because you’re antisemite or something? I don’t get it.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
It's an Israeli name because you're repeating Israeli propaganda all over the thread.
loggy_sci@reddit
I oppose the Israeli goverment and want them out of Gaza and to stop their wars. I’m just not histrionic and spouting inane bullshit so of course you short-circuit.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
Their goal is Greater Israel. The day they stop their wars is the day their borders are set, and they don't want that. Therefore, they're never going to stop their wars unless they're forced to stop their wars. Israel's very existence as a Jewish-supremacist state can only lead to expansion wars.
loggy_sci@reddit
what you’re saying is that Israel are warmongers because they are Jewish.
Thanks for letting us know you’re an antisemite but we already had that figured out.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
No, they're warmongers because they're Jewish supremacist. But sure, you do your part in muddying the waters and erasing the distinction therefore increasing antisemitism. Well done, good guy.
S-Tier_Commenter@reddit
Yeah that's like saying if OP doesn't want to be associated with a genocidal state, they could've picked a non-German username.
macaroni_chacarroni@reddit
No, it would be like that if he picked a Nazi flag as his profile picture.
Best_Change4155@reddit
lmao
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
Clearly not unpopular enough, that's for sure.
Tea-Unlucky@reddit
That’s a lot of words from “I am an antisemite who wants to exclude Jews from society”
Shane-8300@reddit
🥱
notarobat@reddit
If that article tells the whole story... I can blame them.
a-dino123@reddit
I. I can blame them.
CricketJamSession@reddit
So you choose antisemitic so people won't accidently think you are accossiated with genocide?
The antisemitic propaganda campain really worked well on you folks
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
"Antisemitism" weak defense.
kyussorder@reddit
The intelectual dishonesty you are showing makes imposible to see you as valid interlocutor. And then, you talk about "propaganda", at this point you are being deliberately obtuse.
Imasquash@reddit
Yes, even in the false dichotomy you have presented, genocide is worse than antisemitism.
CricketJamSession@reddit
How so?
Apart for it being unrelated to my comment or the issue that you folks insist on conflating Jews with your political agenda,
You forget the fact that the term Genocide came to existence because of antisemitism and what people did to jews because of it
You guys are so confused
Imasquash@reddit
So the Jews in Israel get a pass to do a genocide? It's ok because they had to go through the horror that coined the term?
What a revolting way of thinking.
CricketJamSession@reddit
No it means that your unrelated claim that genocide is worse than antisemitism is false to its core
But you will comment anything to avoid admitting it
IsNotPolitburo@reddit
False, antisemitism is what sparked the specific genocide that led to the term being coined, but even Raphael Lemkin himself recognized events like the Armenian Genocide, Albigensian Crusade, and conquest of the Americas all as being genocide.
CricketJamSession@reddit
You mean the worst kind of genocide that sparked the need to have a specific term for it
Why would you think that baseless assumptions will help your argument?
It just shows how biased and prejudiced you are
effurshadowban@reddit
Raphael Lemkin was already studying the Armenian Genocide before the Holocaust happened, BTW. He was already going to create a term for it before he became a target for genocide.
IsNotPolitburo@reddit
No it doesn't, because your original point was deliberately downplaying the crime of genocide and reducing it to something that Jews are the unique and only possible victims of, which is a core component of the ideology behind the ongoing genocide of Gazaby Israel.
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
Say what?
bathtubsplashes@reddit
No it fucking didn't 😅
MobileSuitBooty@reddit
bars
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
It's not antisemitic to choose not to perform with people who performed for President Herzog earlier this year.
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
I don't think having President Herzog speak at the Sydney Memorial for the attack during his Australian visit was going to help people distinguish between different groups of people.
Israeli President Herzog inspires Jewish Community with Powerful Speech
[Zionist Federation of Australia on the Memorial (FB)] (https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1CFwBwryLY/)
-Australian Hellenic Choir president James Tsolakis
https://neoskosmos.com/en/2026/04/28/news/australia/concert-for-hope-and-unity-cancelled-amid-hopelessness-and-division-over-greek-jewish-collaboration/
With the exceptionalism afforded to Zionism and Israel, and this continued support for Israel and weaponisation of antisemitism by leaders of international Jewish communities, WHAT DO WE THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
Greek-Jewish choral performance soars above Nazi darkness (2022)
xland44@reddit (OP)
President Herzog has a vested interest in showing the Jewish community that someone out there cares for their safety.
You know what would prevent the big bad Zionists from acting on that?
A) australians sticking up for Jews
B) not murdering random Jews in Australia in broad daylight
I'm sure it's easier to try and assign blame to a distant foreign separated by an ocean and a continental landmass sharing condolonces and not to the locals shooting randos on the streets of Australia.
Treinrukker@reddit
You should really upgrade your hasbara playbook lol. It frankly sucks
imokayjustfine@reddit
“hasbara playbook” and it’s literally just “Jews are human beings”
Treinrukker@reddit
Thats literally what hasbara is lol, conflating jews with israel
imokayjustfine@reddit
Like this choir might have?
xland44@reddit (OP)
Do kindly note I haven't aaid a single positive thing about Israel in this thread - there is no hasbara here, only redditors trying very hard for reasons to excuse or explain why shitting on jews is fine
imokayjustfine@reddit
Some of these comments are so wild. I don’t know why I’m ever shocked anymore, but fr, wow. 😭 Times of Israel didn’t even break this story first, the choir director himself is straightforwardly saying there is antisemitic sentiment involved, and random people online are still bending over backwards to say it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with antisemitism, lmao, of course. Incredible.
MegaJackUniverse@reddit
Then you're poorly informed. This choir have had no qualms performing with Jewish people in the past. It is not their Jewish-ness that has led to this situation. This changes absolutely utterly everything about the angle of your linked article.
Antisemitism is a horrible unjustifiable thing but this isn't an example of antisemitism
bradicality@reddit
NO POLITIK HERE
Chloe1906@reddit
This choir had performed with the Jewish choir previously. I don’t think antisemitism is the real reason here, though the article doesn’t talk to the people who refused to sing, so we dont know for sure.
It seems that people are taking exception to the fact that the Jewish choir was ok performing in front of Herzog, which is completely fair. He has supported the genocide and said some horrible things.
ImpressiveTicket492@reddit
Hard to accept the "big bad zionists" care about murder when they have spent the last two and half years actively committing or cheering genocide.
Herzog belongs in prison along with every single member of the the Israeli government. So its not unreasonable that people aren't comfortable with him travelling the world addressing crowds.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
They do care when it's their people getting murdered.
imokayjustfine@reddit
How uniquely evil of them
imokayjustfine@reddit
Lmao.Lmao. u/Maybe_this_time_fr In mocking your blatantly hateful stupidity? 🥀 Clearly I don’t think so, no. It deserves to be mocked. And what a truly intelligent reply that addressed what I said.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
LMAO ragebaited.
imokayjustfine@reddit
Hilarious to vilify people for not wanting to die, I know.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
LMAO gottem again. Silly zionists.
imokayjustfine@reddit
Ffs just say “Jew” already. We all know that’s what you mean. Youre not exactly hiding it. I’d consider myself more post-Zionist if anything but caring about Jewish self-determination at all doesn’t actually sound like an insult to me. You literally have no idea what that word means. LMAO though indeed. What a fun game for u! Such activism
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
LMAO gottem again. Fell for it again
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Are you fucking stupid?
imokayjustfine@reddit
Who are the “big bad Zionists” exactly? What the fuck do you think that means?
mnmkdc@reddit
But he is the president of a genocidal apartheid state. His presence hurts the reputation of anything he participates in.
baepsaemv@reddit
As an Australian Jew, I say mind your own business. Your dumpster fire of a country has enough for you to worry about without you feeling the need to comment on others. I feel more safety and community with other anti-genocide jews here than I ever would with a zionist.
Stubbs94@reddit
Inviting a president of a state that commits similar atrocities to what happened on Bondi Beach daily isn't the greatest look though.
RedmeisterR@reddit
Nah bro, its just bad optics. Having a member of the Israeli government speak at your event is WILD.
If you already know that a specific government is heavily disliked for ahem questionable acts committed acts with terrible reasoning for their military actions. You would not even think twice of letting them speak.
Imagine if it was Iran or Russia or North Korea, that would be crazy.
cheeruphumanity@reddit
"There are no innocent civilians in Gaza"
Isaac Herzog
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
This is what the Australian Hellenic Choir stated on their facebook:
jakethepeg1989@reddit
28th June, so a month after their previous performance and 2 months from now?
When the president of the choir has said the opposite.
Seems to stretch credulity that explanation.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
They probably have all of their free days booked and planned for rehearsing for the May concert, and have probably already been practicing and rehearsing for a month or two.
So, realistically, they’ll have a month or less to rehearse for the Hope and Unity concert. Typically choirs rehearse at least 8-10 weeks, and longer if it’s an option.
These are probably volunteers, it’s probably not even a part time job for the choir members. It’s a PITA to expect them to somehow find time to add an extra day for rehearsal every week to perform something with a month of rehearsals, at short notice. These are people who still have lives to live — vacations, time for the kids, other hobbies, etc.
jakethepeg1989@reddit
The head of the choir says it's antisemitism.
They didn't necessarily need a whole new set list.
With everything you said being true, the answer really could have just been "we can't do 10 new songs (or however many they have) these are what we've got ready to go, can we work with that".
You're benefit of the doubt for a group WHOS OWN DIRECTOR
Irr3sponsibl3@reddit
You don't think it's possible that a director could throw people under the bus out of fear of anti-anti-semitic pressure? You understand the concept of political correctness, don't you? Maybe if he tried to defend his group's actions he would have been lumped in with them and had an ADL-style organization in Australia come after him. If you or I were in a situation where we were in a group, and, god forbid, the actions of some of its members was seen as anti-black or any anti-any other minority, in a western country, and this was starting to circulate in the press, do you think we as regular individuals who could be fired from our jobs or have our addresses published online, would: A) explain the nuances of the situation and say it was all a misunderstanding, or B) point the finger at someone else and say, yes, this is their fault, please go after them and leave me alone? Especially if doing A could lead to accusations that you're trying to cover up racism and therefore complicit in it? The Bondi Beach massacre has already led to restrictions on speech in Australia and the UK.
I'm not ruling out the possibility that your interpretation is correct, but the testimony of individuals in systems is not gospel. People in Cultural Revolution-era China, East Germany, America during the Red Scare and all sorts of coercive systems would gladly sell out their neighbors to put the spotlight off themselves, even if they were innocent.
Cubusphere@reddit
The choirs have previously collaborated and have future collaborations planned (that are scheduled well in advance unlike this one). That casts some doubt on the claims of the director that the reason must be underlying anti-Semitism.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
My guess is the director was probably talking about a few specific people, not the decision as a whole, and Times of Israel took it out of context to write their narrative.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
And the letter put out by the management committee (usually made up of choir members itself) claims otherwise.
It could be there are internal disagreements in perspective about why they chose not to go one. Perhaps a few did object politically but most who voted against it were concerned with practicality.
Whatever it’s worth, I don’t trust the vast majority of Israeli reporting on this stuff, just like I don’t trust Fox News in its reporting on Trump, or Iran’s reporting on dissent.
RedTulkas@reddit
1 month is very little time for rehearsal for volunteers
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
I've been part of volunteer music groups that put on performances with a lot less rehearsal time than that.
BioSemantics@reddit
Cool, but yours probably sucked.
jakethepeg1989@reddit
There was no need for an entire new set list.
It absolutely could have been done if they wanted to. But they didnt. And the head of the choir apparently knows less then all the commenters here.
RedTulkas@reddit
I don't know what the setup was
Maybe they also just didn't wanna prolong their spring season because members already had other plans
I m much more surprised that the organizers hadnt setup everything before announcing the concert
jakethepeg1989@reddit
It's an incredible benefit of the doubt to give them when the president of the choir himself is pretty convinced otherwise.
RedTulkas@reddit
the president himself says that netanyahu somehow came up in the discussion
so it looks like the jewish choir being pro-israel was the problem (look at their own homepage)
and once again anti-zionsim gets conflated with anti-semitism
jakethepeg1989@reddit
Netanyahu coming up in conversation is part of the problem itself.
"Weve sung with you before. You are in memorial to Australian Jews killed in Australia with nothing to do with Israel. But we won't sing with you again unless you conform to our opinions on Israel".
That is massively problematic. And thats being very generous to the greek choir already.
RedTulkas@reddit
Bwhy would you sing with someone supporting a genocidal regime?
You do not have to spend time with people you disagree with
TheUnicornRevolution@reddit
Why is it problematic?
QiDeviation@reddit
Oh look! It’s what I said would happen and what got me banned from a sub! I said Israel would make life worse for Jews because of their actions and LO’ AND BEHOLD! Here we are. That’s why I said whether it sounds good or not or whether people like it or not, this will come about. History has been very clear in its example!
Colour me shocked!
CricketJamSession@reddit
We can see the brain rot of information really starting to crawl throughout the world
Absolutely disgusting seeing how many people fall for antisemitic actions because they are too deep in their political agenda that they seek to manifest it in anyway they can, so they will try and hurt the first thing that resembles it, instead of actually doing good in their society.
No palestinian/jew/Israeli/christian/anyone in the world can have true peace when we are that confused
riskyrofl@reddit
Show us one quote in the article by any of the singers who refused to perform thar shows they were being antisemitic.
MoltenCopperEnema@reddit
Show me in the article where it says this has to do Israel and not antisemitism.
Dogulol@reddit
you can look for yourself and find that they responded:
It is also untrue that The Australian Hellenic Choir refused to sing with the Sydney Jewish Choral Society in a concert titled Hope and Unity. This performance was proposed to the Choir only last week, and was scheduled for 28 June. This date was deemed too close to an end of May concert the choir has been rehearsing for. As a result, the majority of the choir voted against participating, due to time constraints.
Makes sense not a single one of them was interviewed before being accused of jew hatred. Forever victims
xland44@reddit (OP)
Makes sense not a single one of them was interviewed
The entire report is based off of an interview and direct quote with the president of the choir.
Dogulol@reddit
Who is clearly against the decision. Maybe we should hear the ones who are for it before accusing them of jewhatred? oh wait they did respond and said it was purely bc of time constraints. But that doesnt fit your and the zio agenda does it?
CricketJamSession@reddit
Theres no need for a quote
Their actions speak for themselves
Cubusphere@reddit
https://www.facebook.com/100063488945111/posts/pfbid02VLpkZwwL1tfoskeBjnG2pvjsJNb9SqjLsbSahg7XTVrBbGUEDPa8WEYgq35SJcy1l/
What about this reasonable explanation that the article did not mention at all?
xSypRo@reddit
Exactly that. Would you react the same if a Muslim choir was to be attacked after 9/11?
This is especially ironic because it’s a terror attack against Jewish people, in a memorial for Jewish victims you don’t want to be seen next to Jews. Yes, it’s antisemitism from the kind that led to this terror attack.
dood9123@reddit
It's less about them being a Muslim choir, but one who's members and leadership have voiced support for 9/11 and Al-Qaeda
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
This subreddit would be bending over backwards to excuse that. This subreddit already bends over backwards to excuse support for Iran and its ethnostatist puppets. But all of a sudden, when it's Jews allegedly supporting a Jewish ethnostate, it's inexcusable.
dood9123@reddit
I think you're conflating "support for Iran" with a lack of support for US imposed regime change in Iran.
It doesn't come from a place of alignment with the state of Iran, but from the understanding that when the US attempts regime change in this way it has always led to a further diminishment of quality of life for those on the ground. For the record I'm against every ethnostatez, including Greece, who's formation was based on the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, Pomaks, and Turks, Macedonians, Slavs, among many others who faced indiscriminate slaughter and forced expulsion. I believe that in a just world, no nation should ever be permitted to discriminate or elevate any particular ethnic group over any other. It is one of humanities greatest sins, and we continue to allow it even into the modern day.
On another note, I don't know what the reasoning was behind the vote to abandon the memorial Concert. The quotes I've found through forward.com and The Times of Israel seem to lack their wider context. For example: “There’s a bit of antisemitism in the Greek community; I didn’t realize the extent of it. Unfortunately, we have a lot of people in the community blaming the Jewish community for what’s happening in Israel, Palestine … that’s not correct,”
This could be intercepted as an admission that the Hellenic Choir is rife with antisemitism, or it could be in reference to the fact that the wider Greek community of the area has anti-Semitic elements which may lead to security concerns. Especially in the wake of the heinous mass shooting that took place in that very community, which explicitly targetted Jews. In that environment, I may not want to host an event which may be targetted for a similar copycat attack myself, but I imagine it would be an incredibly difficult position to be in.
The follow-up quote below seems to support this:
"The Jewish people are all into it, I’m into it, but the Greek choir was a bit anti doing it because of the political climate.”
The "political climate" in Sydney is one which has just faced an incredibly horrific and violent act against Jews in their community, and they may fear similar violence during the concert, which would not only put themselves at risk but also risk the lives of attendees.
I have been attempting to find a scan/digital copy of the original newspaper source, and the full transcript of the interview quoted above, as many of the quotes seem to come from a conversation with wider context. Until I find that original piece I won't assume the Hellenic choir is simply filled with anti-Semites themselves.
I hope humanity may one day find itself free of the senseless divisions we are manipulated into. It's ridiculous that we have normalized ignorance and hate. Makes my blood boil. Everyone deserves a fair shot, and an equitable share of the fruits of humanities labor.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
If it was just opposition to regime change then I'd be agreeing with them; we've repeatedly learned the hard way why regime change doesn't work. It's stuff like uncritically reposting Iranian state narratives (including their AI-slop photos and videos), or cheering on Iranian strikes against countries other than Israel or the US (even ones that had little to do with starting the war), or claiming that Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis are ”legitimate resistance” rather than opportunists with their own ethnostatist objectives, or condemning Ukraine for aiding the Gulf States in intercepting Iranian drones (ignoring that Iran has been supplying Russia with the very drones killing Ukrainians in Ukraine for multiple years), or demonization of the Iranian diaspora, or downplaying/denial of Iran's human rights violations, that crosses into “support for Iran” territory. There's absolutely an “America bad therefore America's enemy good” mentality that's pervasive in a lot of online spaces, this one included.
You can tell which ones are actually sincere in their opposition to ethnostates by asking them simple questions like “Do you condemn Hamas?”. For those of us with functioning moral compasses, our answers are the same as our answers to “Do you condemn Israel?”: “Yes, obviously.” For the Iran defenders, however, you're bound to get a whole lot of mental gymnastics around how you're a bad person for daring to ask that because blah blah blah Israel blah blah blah America blah blah blah Zionism blah blah blah.
xSypRo@reddit
Not everyone in Israel is even supporting Netanyahu. They don’t even live in Israel, why you think they even care?
DrunkenCabalist@reddit
Genocide bad is a deep political agenda?
The shift to Israel representing all Jews globally is a terrible thing. It makes the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-zionism and anti-supporting genocide too muddy.
Which was exactly the point of that shift.
CricketJamSession@reddit
Don't blame Israel for you inability to not conflate jews and critism about Israel
HRSuperior@reddit
you’re right, you can also blame the Mossad, the western mainstream news cycle, the ADL, the United States and its sphere of influence, and the rest of the propaganda machine that has worked tirelessly and systematically to conflate anti-zionism and anti-semitism for cynical purposes for decades, for this exact eventuality
CricketJamSession@reddit
No, I blame only the ones that fall for this like you
You have the responsibility to think for yourself and not anyone else
HRSuperior@reddit
? I don’t think the global jewish people are responsible for the actions of the israeli government. Thought that was quite clear
imokayjustfine@reddit
It’s not clear at all
DrunkenCabalist@reddit
Projecting much?
As someone who is Jewish by descent but not practice, I absolutely blame Israel for the muddying of those water.
xland44@reddit (OP)
Indeed. And it's ridiculous people are downvoting your comment.
CricketJamSession@reddit
"Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer"
shamqueen69@reddit
Quoting Rick and Marty is very big brained of you
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
yeah especially if they are inviting the Israeli president, we have all seen what he has said lol.
microsoftisme3000@reddit
What's it like knowing everyone sees you for what you are?
segal25@reddit
Especially true in the Reddit echo chamber
shamqueen69@reddit
Shut the fuck up
Undecked_Pear@reddit
I remember watching the news about the Bondi shooting and being horrified. Then I was horrified by the Zionists hijacking the event to spew pro-Israel propaganda.
Then I was saddened by some of the victims families pushing the same pro genocide slogans.
Anti-semitism is wrong, but I think we are going to see more of it. I just wish people would stop being dicks to each other.
leakygutters@reddit
“The result is, like many other Jews in the arts since 7 October, 2023, we have been canceled,” she told the Australian. “We have been de-platformed and it is deeply upsetting for us and for the broader Jewish community, who have been the target of anti-Jewish racism in this country for two and a half years.”
Is this even remotely true? I don’t recall any Jewish performers being de-platformed, and the Jewish Choir is not being “cancelled”. They can still go ahead without the Hellenic Choir joining in. So why don’t they?
jacksonelhage@reddit
in Australia, people associating with the pro Palestine movement are the ones being “cancelled”. the powers in the art scene like the big galleries, festivals like rising etc. are funded and owned by people who support zionism. on the other hand, Bendigo writers festival was boycotted because they banned pro Palestinian statements. Adelaide writers festival was boycotted because it kicked Palestinian writer Randa Abdul-Fattah off a panel. The organisations in the art scene are vastly pro-zionism. The artists themselves are pro Palestine because obviously.
ThatHeckinFox@reddit
Jewish or Zionist? The two are far from the same.
Zionists trying to drag normal jewish people down in to the same pit they are in to use them as human shields is quite the disgusting move. At this point, the main difference between zionists and nazis is a little flap of skin.
cmndr_keen@reddit
Zionism is a belief that Jews should have a national homeland. Are you advocating anarchism, including abolishing national states?
machado34@reddit
Hot take: ethnostates are always bad
loggy_sci@reddit
Save this energy for the ME, China, Japan, Korea, etc.
jacksonelhage@reddit
why? those nations are fairly homogenous but they don’t make it policy (anymore) to characterise other ethnic groups as non human and to slaughter them regularly.
Kyudojin@reddit
If only there was a middle ground that wasn't predicated on the existence of a Jewish ethnostate.
redridingoops@reddit
Doesn't mean it has to be other people's national homeland.
Don't be obtuse.
cmndr_keen@reddit
Because Palestine was ever a nation when..? And even if you would suddenly declare it's I dependence now, what are it's boarders gonna be? Who's gonna govern it? Islamic jihad? Hammas? Abbas? I'm sure you have it worked out, do share.
redridingoops@reddit
So the only thing stopping you from stealing someone's home and putting inbred settlers in their stead is a frontier ?
That's news to me.
MightyWalrusss@reddit
Holy fucking strawman, batman
loggy_sci@reddit
This is an insane take. This sub is cooked.
Best_Change4155@reddit
It's a Jewish org playing for the Jews killed at Bondi celebrating a Jewish holiday.
UFSC@reddit
Nazis hated Jewish people. no Nazi would like how much power Israel has now. I don’t get why people can’t use more accurate comparison. plenty of other awful past groups they align with better.
Tea-Unlucky@reddit
It’s a Jewish choir. In a concert to help victims of an antisemitic attack of a Jewish synagogue in Australia. But no, it’s anti Zionism, not antisemitism right?
All you say about Zionists but it’s the pro Palis that sounds the most Nazi to me
baepsaemv@reddit
The zionist that posted this uses this very same play constantly. Tries to speak on behalf of all jews as if we naturally all share the world view of genocidal zionists. The vast majority of my local jewish community here in sydney is pro-palestine, many participated in the recent protests.
riskyrofl@reddit
Notice how this report doesn't actually quote the members of the choir who didnt not perform, just that they “politically objected”, and then a bunch of people saying it must be anti-semitism. Its basic journalistic malpractice to not give the subject of an article the right to respond.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
Welcome to Time of Israel. Any story they publish will be warped in any shape possible to portray Israel as the ultimate victim.
It used to be banned on this sub for propaganda but since Oct 7th it's reporting on Israeli domesticat matters has been valuable enough to be allowed here. Take anything your read there with a giant rock pile of salt.
xland44@reddit (OP)
TOI has never been explicitly banned on this sub.
ACupOfLatte@reddit
Mate, I don't think anyone can believe you're not inherently biased when you quite literally chose to use a biased source to share.
Who am I gonna trust, the person who hasn't done something to make me raise an eyebrow or the person who's done the exact opposite?
Toomanyeastereggs@reddit
Except it’s not “facts” and is just made up bullshit.
Anti-semitism is a horrible thing. Making up shit to blame others of doing it is in some ways, even worse.
robinfeud@reddit
shame, that
warnie685@reddit
It's imo one of the more balanced Israeli news outlets, they will at least report things others won't, even if they won't condemn.
Anxious_Katz@reddit
That's Haaretz. You're describing Haaretz!
warnie685@reddit
I think Haaretz would condemn at least some of what they report. That however also gives them a reputation that makes it easier for right wing people to dismiss them. The Times plays a role imo in that it does report on a lot of the crimes, incidents that the other right wing papers will hide and ignore.
Tea-Unlucky@reddit
No that’s a far left publication and is generally unreliable and has been lying many times. You’re just saying that because it aligns with your agenda
ner_vod2@reddit
But the obvious right wing propaganda from the time of Israel is acceptable? If we are allowing right wing publications we should allow left wing publications as well.
Tea-Unlucky@reddit
What is this whataboutism I was saying that Haaretz is in no way a reliable source
mandala1@reddit
Tbf I don’t trust anything that comes out of Israel at this point
thisnamewasnttaken19@reddit
The article was originally published in The Australian, with reposts by several Greek and Jewish publications.
Cubusphere@reddit
To be fair, the president of the Hellenic choir seems to be all to eager to claim to know the reason for the objection being underlying anti-Semitism, while on Facebook the choir claims it's more about last minute scheduling and time constraints.
jakethepeg1989@reddit
There’s a bit of antisemitism in the Greek community; I didn’t realize the extent of it,” Australian Hellenic Choir president James Tsolakis said
Literal head of the Greek choir said it. But you know better then him I suppose.
Dogulol@reddit
hes literally one of the pnes that didnt vote for it. Why cant we get the opinion of the people who did? Since we are accusing them of jewhatred maybe hearing what their perspective is would help clear things up?
riskyrofl@reddit
He clearly doesn't approve of the move, so it is clear that it is others who made the move. Again, those people have the right to provide their reasoning, not to have other people say what their motives were.
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Bro it's Time of Israel.
VicenteOlisipo@reddit
This choir representative immediately going for the October equivalence, plus the fact that no Greek choir person perspective is in the article, very strongly suggests that there was something else going on here relating to using the moment as part of Israel's propaganda, and not just the Greeks randomly deciding they actually didn't like Jews half-way through a rehearsal.
jakethepeg1989@reddit
The head of the Greek choir is quoted in the byline of the article saying its antisemitism.
Chloe1906@reddit
But why didn’t they talk to the actual people who objected? These two choirs performed together previously.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
When was their previous collab?
Chloe1906@reddit
The article says 2022.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Thanks, not sure how I missed it.
So why be unwilling to collaborate with this jewish group now? Are they actually associated with israel or something?
beastwarking@reddit
Well you see, if they actually asked people for their opinions to develop a greater understanding, the story wouldn't be publishable because it would no longer carry the narrative the publishers want.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
One member spoke out, the leader.
James Tsolakis (Hellenic Choir President): He spoke candidly, expressing deep disappointment and shock at the result. He noted, "There's a bit of antisemitism"
the leadership of the group who voted called it antisemitism. Seems as though you're more looking to fit a narrative by denying such
beastwarking@reddit
But that's company leadership, not witnesses or people who wee there.
To be honest, I don't care (or believe) what a company says publically because they have no duty to the public or to truth in general. Even less so when vague statements are made, such as describing the Greek's position as "a little anti-semetic," without including what was said by them, or by the Israeli performers that may have lead to the decision.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Lol
1. they weren't israeli they were jewish
He was the chosen head of the group. This isn't Walmart, wtf you mean company. What is the company vs employee in this scenario?
We already know how the members of the choir feel, they voted against joining a jewish choir, not a Israeli choir.
Hilarious, you complain of framing when substituting Israeli for Jew.
Then to top it off the "leadership" counsel. Says only reason people chose not to is because time constraints for rehearsal, yet you also have member saying it's because safety.... whole lot of justifications going on for all you guys to not fuck with the jews
beastwarking@reddit
So none of that actually changes what I wrote. You're really just hammering on an honest mistake that doesn't address anything.
“There’s a bit of antisemitism in the Greek community; I didn’t realize the extent of it,” Australian Hellenic Choir president James Tsolakis said.
I don't know what the fuck you are on about, but it's pretty clearly a business with positions, such as president.
And I don't care about size, or incorme, because you'll try to move the goalposts about how that isn't what you meant.
"We already know how the members of the choir feel"
You do? You asked members why they voted that way?"
Or are you doing what I accused people of and are simply assuming?
"Then to top it off the "leadership" counsel. Says only reason people chose not to is because time constraints for rehearsal, yet you also have member saying it's because safety.... whole lot of justifications going on for all you guys to not fuck with the jews"
So you agree that leadership 1) exists, real fat contradiction with what you originally claimed and 2) shouldn't be trusted, as I said.
Good job arguing against yourself. You're a real credit to critical thinkers everywhere.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Leadership exist in every organization of everything. Congratulations on learning how a society functions.
Leadership =/=corporate speak
The mgmt vs employee statement made was fucking stupid is my point. Especially when the employees voted and may very well not want to speak to the media exactly because of this
I can almost guarantee you're one of those people that go around, throwing out oppressor oppressy, and all that other bullshit
But if you want to go down the route of corporate speak, you can go on their webpage and read what the council says it's a time constraints, which is written much more in corporate speak. Being Frank about a situation usually isn't considered corporates speech.
So you tell me which one you trust the president of that group for the council statement?
And it's fine if you don't trust either. But also making up a scenario in your head for these employees and then going with that has no basis, either.
beastwarking@reddit
"Leadership exist in every organization of everything. Congratulations on learning how a society functions."
"He was the chosen head of the group. This isn't Walmart, wtf you mean company. What is the company vs employee in this scenario?"
Again, you're arguing with yourself.
"Especially when the employees voted and may very well not want to speak to the media exactly because of this"
And you make this claim because...? And again, because you can't even remember what you wrote so clearly it needs to be restated, how do you know why they voted the way the did? Do you know if the Jewish singers were unabashedly supporting the actions of Israel? Or do you have evidence that the Greek singers are a bunch of racist jerks?
"I can almost guarantee you're one of those people that go around, throwing out oppressor oppressy, and all that other bullshit"
Announcing you go around assuming things about others, incorrectly I might add, and parading around like you've solved the riddle isn't a good look.
"But also making up a scenario in your head for these employees and then going with that has no basis, either."
What scenario did I make up? Please, I'm curious to know why asking for the publication of people who were there's opinion is not only a scenario, but somehow the question itself isn't real?
Chloe1906@reddit
The choir has performed previously with Herzog (who has said and done heinous shit) in attendance. That would be enough for me to boycott them, just as I would boycott a secular choir that did the same. I would have no problem working with any Jewish group that refuses to work with genociders.
Little-Stage1948@reddit
Okay? Before October 7 a lot of liberals thought they weren't antisematic, but now we see them daily using terms coined by David Duke
Cool we're not talking about you, we're talking about them.
But also I don't take you at your word. Considering you've already miss identified these people as israeli instead of just jews. I also understand you struggle with meaning of words such as genocide.
liverswithfavabeans@reddit
From another comment below by u/not-reallyanonymous: This is what the Australian Hellenic Choir stated on their facebook:
It is also untrue that The Australian Hellenic Choir refused to sing with the Sydney Jewish Choral Society in a concert titled Hope and Unity. This performance was proposed to the Choir only last week, and was scheduled for 28 June. This date was deemed too close to an end of May concert the choir has been rehearsing for. As a result, the majority of the choir voted against participating, due to time constraints.
They also quote someone in the article saying there was some antisemitism (sic) in the Greek community.
Neither of those statements nor any other tie the two together as the reason the concert was not going forward.
Cubusphere@reddit
https://www.facebook.com/100063488945111/posts/pfbid02VLpkZwwL1tfoskeBjnG2pvjsJNb9SqjLsbSahg7XTVrBbGUEDPa8WEYgq35SJcy1l/
HockeyHocki@reddit
damage control if ever i saw it, the 'individual without authorization' was the choirs president lmao
HockeyHocki@reddit
Fucking reddit purging perfectly fine comments, their site-wide comment filtering tools have become super oppresive lately, can't be the only one noticing it.
ClinicalDigression@reddit
As a general rule, when a news outlet called "The Times of Israel" claims that a specific group of Jewish people is being discriminated against for being Jewish, it makes sense to at least ask the question "are you sure the problem's not that they're zionists, rather than that they're Jewish, and that some people don't wanna associate with them on account of zionism being an inherently genocidal project?"
manhattanabe@reddit
Shocking. Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. In this case, it was a Greek choir that would not sing with Jews. They just forgot to say Zionists.
“the Australian Hellenic Choir voted against performing with the Sydney Jewish Choral Society”.
baepsaemv@reddit
This OP is constantly in this and other geopolitics subs posting covert pro-israel propaganda. They are always arguing that what's happening to palestine is NOT a genocide, it simply couldn't be because OP doesn't like genocide! They also posted about wanting to... develop a civ-style video game about the war?? This person is an absolute ghoul and seeing them try to post about my country's situation makes me sick. As an australian jew our situation right now is dire and there is real antisemitism but this bullshit is not it. Plenty of us are extremely anti-israel.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Unless the Sydney Jewish Choral Society is some kind of pro-Israel propaganda group I don't think this is justified and it's a bad look for that Australian Hellenic Choir.
boilpoil@reddit
... Unless one actually checks in with the Australian Hellenic Choir, who were not interviewed to give a response in this piece of news.
They did not have enough time for a rehearsal in the first place.
Prosthemadera@reddit
I hate how the Times of Israel leaves that information out. No one can tell me this is not on purpose.
And now I see that the user who posted that link has an Israel flair. Doesn't automatically mean Israel supporter but considering they posted that link...
Averagelytalldude@reddit
You don’t even need to oppose them ideologically to be called racist. Just do something they don’t like.
Nosidam48@reddit
Can’t look at the actual reasonable answer as to why this happened. Gotta take the Zionist rag at face value and realize that every member of that Australian choir are raging anti-semites /s